Andrea Yates – Depression – Drugs - LCing

[fiona]

I feel incredibly sad. Some incredibly difficult emotions that I struggled with, albeit a very long time ago, have been triggered and brought to the surface again.

I watched the Oprah Winfrey show. This show was aired in the US sometime in March but in UK it was aired today. She was interviewing Rusty Yates, the husband of Andrea Yates who has been found to be mentally ill but responsible for the murder of her five children. She had support from Rusty and her mother, Dora. She had suffered post-partum depression after the birth of her fourth child, Luke. She was suffering from post-partum depression again after the birth of her fifth child, Mary. The doctors had put her on drugs for psychosis and anti-depressants. She was then taken off the drugs for psychosis and deemed fit enough to be discharged from hospital. She loved her children. Despite all the support her family gave her, she drowned her five children and has been found guilty of their murder.

Was she responsible? Did the doctors who treated her help her or make her condition worse? Is it fair to judge the family (Rusty or Dora)? Is the support system for people suffering depression “caring” enough? Are the mentally ill listened to? Is the public too ready to condemn people suffering depression. Are we realistic about the responsibilities we place upon the shoulders of someone suffering from depression?

These are all questions that I have struggled with since my teens. I did take anti-depressants in the 1970s. By mid-70s I had decided that the drugs were not doing me any good – if anything they were making me worse. It took me another couple of years to get myself off them. Since then, I have determinedly and stubbornly refused to take anti-depressants. Listening to Oprah and her guests today I feel soooo glad that I made that choice all those years ago. However the case has helped trigger off the rage, total isolation, despair, helplessness, inability to understand what was happening to me, guilt for letting my family down, self-recrimination etc that I went through at the time. These emotions still haunt me - at times more than at others. What do people here feel: about antidepressants, about the questions that the show once again brought to the fore?

I suffered from mood-swings after I came off the anti-depressants but it is only since I started Low-carbing I finally feel in control and believe my depression is a part of my past.

Take Loving Accepting Inclusive Care.

[cristian]

Depression can be very scary. I am currently on antidepressants and antianxiety medication (when needed). The cases of yates and lemak are isolated cases of deep deep depression. Let me tell you my story. In december, I was watching the news about lemack (she sedated her kids and then suffocated them) and I got very nervous. I was by myself with my kid and felt so angry at her for doing such a thing. Then I thought how could a mother's love falter so. I was so nervous around my child. I do a lot of role playing and I saw myself in her situation and I thought I was going to die. Just to imagine my child being harmed by someone or myself, drove me up the wall. I love my child so much that I would kill myself or someone else before they did harm to him....one person in this forum told me something that really helped me. She told me that this person thought that because she loved her kids that she should end their suffering. This helped me in the way that i am not like them. I was feeling so guilty of imaging this things. I would never ever hurt my child but just to role play in my mind how things would be, drove me to the hospital. I have also had situations that I am in work and suddenly "oh my God, what if a fire broke out in the babysitter's house and they can't get out". This gets me very upset and feel I have to drive out just to see if my child is ok.

I am with you on this. If you need to talk more freely on your feeling my email is: cristian0616~yahoo.com. Sometimes a little understanding and listening, can go a long way.s

[fiona]

I am not scared of depression - I learnt to cope with it. Its the attitudes that surround it that I find difficult. Anyway since I started LCing my mood-swings have all but disappeared.

I haven't, or hadn't until now, heard of Lemack. How awful. I think anyone suffering from depression is capable of doing the unthinkable. There were times when I would get really angry but my instinctive response was to retreat, do nothing until the anger passed. When one is taking drugs those inhibitions are bypassed and the unimaginable comes to pass.

Should not the doctors who are allegedly the experts take some responsibility for what their prescription is doing to their patients?

It is frightening. People do get nervous and shy away. As if by not acknowledging the problem it will go away.

How do we go about changing these attitudes? And providing real help where it is needed, WHEN it is needed.

Take care.

[razzle]

anti-depressants worry me for several reasons.

They are no doubt bolixing up the user's serotonin system even worse

They are addictive

They keep people out of deep sleep, which leads to (you guessed it!) depression

I tried super mild doses for a week (doc told me they'd help prevent the migraines) and became totally psychotic. I was about two more doses from hearing voices, I swear. Very disturbing, but more disturbing to me to realize that a quarter of American women are walking around on these things. Thank God my mind cleared up 48 hours after I quit them.

And lastly, there's a political aspect to this. Women suffer depression more often. Married women also do 90% of childrearing, 80% of housework, have been taught to unhealthily caretake emotionally for others, hold down a full time job, are taught to hate their own bodies...and on and on and on. Many live with alcoholic husbands or men who beat them. Most are underpaid.

Medicating away the very real feelings of tiredness, misery, and confusion that such social inequities cause is, to my mind, morally wrong.

I say, change the world first. Then see what changes about our own body image, our own sadness and exhaution.

I'm so glad LCing and better nutrition has helped you so much fiona. I think it has helped "moodiness" for most of us.

[fiona]

Medicating away the very real feelings of tiredness, misery, and confusion that such social inequities cause is, to my mind, morally wrong.

I empathise and agree with a lot of what you say Razzle. What struck me is that attempts have been made to medicate away the feelings. All it does is suppress them. Sooner or later one has to acknowledge and face those inner feelings.

It says something about my own inner change that I feel sad today and have spoken about it on the same day. It reminds me of the days that I would pretend to be extra cheerful to compensate and avoid the reality of my inner feelings.

One cannot medicate away feelings.

Take care.

[DuPont]

The Andrea Yates story should be a wake up call for all women. Women today are dealing with isolation, lack of support and a disconnectedness, that drives us into depression. We need our family, friends and neighbors to help with the kids, and get involved in each other’s lives. Stay at home mom's have it the hardest in my opinion because of the isolation. However, there are wonderful groups out there intended just for this, M.O.P.S. is just one that I can think of off hand, and many churches have play groups for kids where the mom can also make friends. I say we need to change the way we think first, and then we can change the world. We have to take control and not be controlled by our situations. We have options, we just need to be creative. Some times medication is needed to get us thinking clearly, but you can't just take medication, you have to be willing and able to work on the problems, things don't fix themselves. Maybe therapy is needed to get a fresh perspective on things, or a priest or rabbi can help, or even most local governments have parenting programs, and I know in Syracuse there is a hotline for parents to call. There is help out there but you have to make the first move, things are not hopeless. You have to take personal responsibility for your mental health as well as physical health.

[VictoriaT]

Hi Razzle
Only some anti-depressants are addictive such as Xanax.

Zoloft and others are not addictive. The problem is that they work on the receptors--so they take 3 weeks to block the receptor and work properly. If the person goes cold turkey, your body responds.

Just my 2 cents! :roll:

[garrison]

*cowering down and hoping that no one will throw rotten fruit at me for sharing this*

I have been on anti-depressants for about one month now, and I really do feel like they have helped me tremendously.

I feel like medication can be used as a tool to help in dealing with the events that cause depression/anxiety. Medication all by itself might not produce long-lasting changes, but I feel that it can be used as a starting place toward achieving wellness.

I don't think that all medication is bad, but I do feel that there are times when doctors prescribe medicine when it actually isn't necessary. Sometimes a change in eating/exercise/vocation is what is needed, and sometimes there are chemical problems that must be corrected through medicines.

I suppose each person is different and what works for one doesn't work for another. I feel blessed that my doctor evaluated my situation closely before prescribing any sort of anti-depressant...and I feel blessed that the medication prescribed is indeed helping me to deal with the issues that I need to deal with in my life.

When used properly as a tool toward providing assistance in dealing with the REAL issues or causes behind anxiety and depression, medicine can be very beneficial. (At least it has been for me personally.)

[fiona]

Only limited fruits allowed on LC WOE ;) Positive experiences are always good to hear about and I am glad that anti-depressants are working for you.

I do agree with you that for SHORT periods of time a-ds, properly supervised, can be useful to tide one over a crisis situation in life.

My own experience was bad enough for me to never want to try them again. Rusty, having lost both his wife and all his children would, I imagine, be very wary of a-ds in future. I would not like to be in his shoes.

God give him strength. And Andrea too for that matter.
Take care,

[Tigra1965]

Dear All

This is the first time I've been in this part of the forum and was particularly interested to read this thread.

If anyone has read my journal you'll notice I've been going through a pretty rough time of it of late. But around 6 weeks ago I realised I needed to talk to someone outside of my family and friends.

I paid privately to see a counsellor and it really helped me to see that I needed more help from my doctor. He was shocked that I had paid privately for counselling and arranged that I should see one through our national health service here in england. He also made me realise that I needed a little help medication wise. My problem was sleep - I was'nt getting any, so I was really tired all day and could'nt function properly throughout the day and little problems seemed huge.

To cut a long story short - he prescribed a very mild antidepressant that I only take before bed - this has really helped me. Its enough to relax me so that I go to sleep and wake up refreshed and ready to face the world the next morning. I suffer from no drowsiness what so ever during the day.

I too was extremley worried about the antidepressants, but with those and the help I have been getting from a counsellor - I am getting much stronger and back to being the old me.

What I want to say is this :- I really wanted to know if I needed help genuinely or was just down in the dumps. My doctor was encouraged that I had done this and then got me more help without my having to pay for it. There are all different types of people out there with different problems and on different medications. Dont please label all antidepressants same.

bye everyone :wave:

[somersizer]

She knows what she did is wrong. I hope she rots in hell for harming those children.

[DuPont]

Although your Dr. and the pharmecutical companies will tell you that Zoloft, paxil, prozac and others in the ssri category are not addictive, I can tell you from my experience, and the complaints of others at the St. John's Wort forum, these anti-depressants are addictive. The withdrawals are very bad, and you need to wean yourself off over a period of a month.

[destro]

I am on an SSRI (Celexa) and I am glad. I feel as if I am the SAME person; I don't feel like a zombie. I still cry and feel depressed a lot. BUT what the medication has helped me to do is to get out of bed; and not to spend entire days crying in bed and toying with suicidal thoughts.

I KNOW that when the time comes to withdraw it will be difficult and that I am now "chemically" addicted. I had a friend who had a rough time withdrawing from Prozac, but in the end she believed that the experience of being on Prozac helped her out of a slump that she felt she could not get out of on her own.

I am working hard in therapy and trying my best to understand the basics of my depressive personality. I think of my Celexa as a measure that helps me until I can learn to help myself better without drugs.

On the other hand, I certainly agree that the drug companies "push" these drugs mercilessly and that a lot of doctors just want to blindly put everyone on them. I have read (cannot recall where) that many of the "elderly" are over-prescribed.

This is very much a case of Your Mileage May Vary, however. When a depression becomes disabling, sometimes the drugs can help a person. I did resist anti-depressants for a long time; I did not want to be "hooked" on drugs and I feared that they would change my personality. In my case, I am glad that I decided to give them a try.

But I support every individuals decision on how to go!

Natalie

[somersizer]

Paxil CANNOT be addictive because it does not work. The only addiction is mental. Recent studies have showed that Paxil had the same effect as the placebo. So those people who *think* it's working it works because they want it to so bad it seems as it is. I do not think that these people have a chemical imbalance since they can make themselves better with brainpower. I do study psychology by the way so this is not just random bs.

[DuPont]

Somersize,

Obviously, you have not taken Paxil. Just because you read something, somewhere doesn't make it true.

Paxil is addictive because it changes the amount of neurotransmitters available in the brain. There is an actual physical and chemical change that takes place.

Your attitude about anti-depressants is what perpetuates the "shame" that some feel about being depressed and having to take medication. Shame on you if you really do study psychology. Telling someone who is depressed it's all in their head, and can change it with brain power is just wrong, any/every Dr. will tell you that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.

You mention one study, what about all the people who have had great success on Paxil, and have recovered while on medication. Paxil may not be the only solution, but it does help people to getting moving in the right direction to change their lives and overcome a debilitating illness.

[lilwannabe]

I think that paxil does work for some people. I know it helped my husband this past year. He was on other medication, which in turn caused not only sickness, balding and weightgain, but also depression...man...he about drove us up the wall. Then one day when we both had to go see our family doctor...I went in first and the doctor asked me about R's moods...I told him that we were going crazy with him. He was very depressed, and angry...and not sleeping, not moving off the couch...etc...So...to make a very long story not quite so long...He put R on Paxil...within a few days, he was much better. Strange tho...he didn't like taking them...so would stop...off and on...I could always tell when he was taking them and when he wasn't.

The doctor also tried me on paxil once...but they made me dizzy and nausaus...so I was switched to something else.

[danwoody]

Reading the post about the person who said Paxil is like a placebo and so therefor cannot be addictive

i would like to meet this person and have you stay with me for a week

i am four weeeks into Paxil withdrawal and i call it Paxil hell

it is disgraceful

i had all sorts of things going on

Headaches, elctric shocks running through my body, numbness of my whole body which still has not gone away, Low blood sugar and i still feel like i am going to fall over every time i turn my head (vertigo)

Your ignorance is a disgrace

sorry to be soo harsh but a post like that feels like a slap in the face

[garrison]

Depression is all in my head? Wow, I'm looney tunes, huh? That's nice to know.

I certainly don't 'feel' as if I am suffering from some sort of dillusional self-incurred cycle of 'willing' myself to get well.

I agree with DuPont. There are certain people in the world who have this wonderful ability to "shame" people who are struggling with depression. Isn't that lovely.

Let's try to build one another up instead of tearing each other down. This is just an opinion, but I feel that criticism, negativity and "shame" tactics do NOT belong in this part of the forum. (Or any other part of the forum!)

[destro]

Danwoody, thank you for posting. Trust me, I believe that it is NOT at all "in your head." It's the delicate and difficult and prolonged process of going off of a helpful but yes, "addictive" drug.

I put the "addictive" in quotation marks: I don't know whether it's an addiction or not, but it does change your brain chemistry and ergo, when you go off of the drug, your brain chemistry also changes.

Garrison, your kind words, as always, are insightful and much appreciated.

With only a very few exceptions, I think that the posters here are kind, compassionate, friendly and understanding so I hope that one or two upsetting posts will not make anyone avoid this place.

Hugs to all,

Natalie

[fiona]

It is best to be informed and know both extreme ends of the scale and then find a middle ground that suits one, as an individual, best. What works for one does not necessarily work for another.

People who take anti-depressants (and those closest to them) need to be aware, responsible and slightly aggressive about saying so if it is not working. Yes ... aggressive .... because assertiveness does not flow easily or naturally when one is depressed and what might feel like aggressiveness is often necessary assertiveness.

There is a tendency for loved ones to take the "Doctor-knows-best/Doc-is-the-expert" attitude or be struggling themselves to not hear what is being said. Lilwannabe put it aptly with {......I told him [the doctor] that we were going crazy with him. ...}. Your blunt honesty got your husband a medication that was better suited.

{Somersize:...I do study psychology by the way so this is not just random bs....} On the other hand there are doctors out there who are dismissive, arrogant (know-it-all), and judgmental. Somersize is exhibiting signs of this attitude - these are the doctors that I have been avoiding - since you cannot tell (especially when you are depressed) what they really think of you. Their opinion affects everything you do (your treatment, employment, driving licence, insurance premiums etc). Yet until recently in the UK, the patient was the only one who had no access to these notes. Even with the Law changed I remember the struggle I had to get hold of my doctor's report to an insurance company. More than six months down the line I finally got a glimpse of the report and wider implications of my depression all those years ago.

I do not (now) tarnish all doctors and patients with the same brush. I'd just like patients and loved ones to be more aware and informed.

{Tigra1965: When used properly as a tool toward providing assistance in dealing with the REAL issues or causes behind anxiety and depression, medicine can be very beneficial.}

I agree. When used properly being key. It has to be used properly by ALL concerned. I see evidence of how the NHS/Care in the Community is failing some of the most vulnerable people. I got the "Do-you-know-how-much-you-are-costing-the-NHS" routine 25 years ago - I didn't need it. Elderly people who have paid their contributions ALL their lives do not get treatment when they need it. There is a bigger picture. … but I am drifting off-topic.

Take care,

[Tanyaskees]

I find this thread very interesting since I have been on Paxil for years and as we speak am trying to wean myself off slowly. I have been taking it for anxiety, not depression. I feel like crap now and biting my poor hubbys head every time he gets anywhere near me. So.....not addictive...hah? Bull, if it is not addictive, then why do I feel like I want to start taking the full dose again? Does anyone have any experience wit St. Johns wort? Would it help or will I just be replacing one addiction with another?

I do believe Paxil has helped me a lot, but now it is time to try it onmy own.

[danwoody]

Tanya

I was in your boat around three months ago

my advice to you, is first of all take it very slow

if you can get the liquid paxil then do so because you will be able to drop your dose in increments of 1mg every week or so

While knowing that those close to you will not ever be able to understand what you are going through, try to be patient and if they start to question you just show them my post

Dont take that extra part of your dose that you are longing to take because you will end up in a spiral but im sure you know that

Drink lots of water and try to believe there is an end in sight

i find it extremely hard somedays but it is getting better as it will do for you

Good luck and health to you, i truly mean that

Dan

[Tanyaskees]

Thanks Dan, I will need it :). I am on my 5th day of half a dose..10mg. Is that too drastic? I am hoping to do half for about a week or two and then go to half every other day. Does that sound reasonable?

[garrison]

Has anyone around here ever experienced withdrawel symptoms from getting off of Effexor XR?

[danwoody]

Tanya im sure its different for everone

BUT

I did the same

i was on 20 mgs down from my highest 60 mgs which i didnt take for long because i literally didnt get out of bed

I dropped from 20 mgs to 10 mgs like you seem to have done

I then tried 10 mgs every other day and i got withdrawal

so i did 10 mgs one day and five mgs the next

this worked fine but it concerned me that i was taking two differnt amounts of the drug

so i got the liquid form and weighed out 7.5 mgs every day

i then droppeed about 1mg every five or six days until i was taking 1 mg a day

I took 1 mg a day for about a week and stopped

I had a little withdrawal (bad dreams, electric shocks (zaps), numbness in fingers and face etc )

The worst of which cleared up in the first week

Now four weeks into post paxil i still have two fingers which are numb but getting better every day

Low blood sugar which is the worst along with very slight vertigo and irratibility.

It sems to be getting better and the symptoms get fewer and far between

So thats me being as honest as i possibly can

Its not sooooooooooo bad though and an end is in sight so if you like follow what i did and good luck to you

Youll be fine

[Tanyaskees]

Dan, how did you get the liquid form of Paxil, can I just ask at the pharmacy? All those withdrawals scare me. I had missed a couple of doses once and man, did I feel sick. Scary stuff. But I'll keep at it. Thanks a lot for your help.

[osuzana]

Somersize,
You appear to be very judgemental and lacking in compassion, I hope you are not planning to be make a career in psychology, because with your blind attitude towards others on this subject, if you were to counsel someone, they could suffer further depression and anxiety. It is obvious you do not know what you are talking about. You should walk a mile in a depressed persons shoes.

[garrison]

...are better left unsaid, you know?

The art of TACTFULLY stating one's opinion comes from trying to respond to others the way that you would want them to respond to you...and holding your tongue when you cannot do so.

Saying that depression is all in one's own mind is basically similar to saying that depression is just some sort of make-believe problem that people just need to "get over".

Most people do not appreciate being told that the problems they are struggling with are imaginary. Depression is a significant problem...and it is a problem that many MANY people deal with.

Forgive me if I sound crass, but there are certain times in life when it's best to simply remain silent rather than speaking far too hastily on a subject we know nothing about.

It makes no difference where depression comes from...all in the head...or all from my big toe...who cares? The point is that there are many brave people here in this thread who have decided to take action and DO something about the depression and anxiety in their lives.

I have a lot of passionate feelings about this subject and some of the things that have been said in this thread...and for the sake of maintaining peace I think I will just step out of the discussion for a while.

[garrison]

Originally posted by somersizer
Paxil CANNOT be addictive because it does not work. The only addiction is mental. Recent studies have showed that Paxil had the same effect as the placebo. So those people who *think* it's working it works because they want it to so bad it seems as it is. I do not think that these people have a chemical imbalance since they can make themselves better with brainpower. I do study psychology by the way so this is not just random bs.

I just wanted to clarify that no one said that depression is all in our heads. Rather, it was stated that certain individuals responded to a placebo just as well as the real drug. For those few individuals depression could be resolved with "brainpower".

BUT NOT ALL PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION CAN CURE THEMSELVES WITH "BRAINPOWER", RIGHT?

I want to be certain that I do not misrepresent anyone here, and I must deeply apologize if I have done so...although there is something about this that still rubs me the wrong way.

[destro]

I totally agree with Garrison, Fiona, and with osuzana here. I did not come to this board, or to this forum, to get involved in arguments or to be perturbed. I think that depression is one of the most difficult things for people to deal with and that combative posts are not helpful. The fact that somersizer says that she (or he) has studied psychology is meaningless: I, too, took Psych 101 in college and that does not make a huge difference in how I perceive my own emotions and my depression. I learned about things like the Hawthorne Effect and the Skinner Box and the studies on how easy it is for people to be blindly sadistic.

I got a huge red flag when I read that S. believes that Andrea Yates should burn in hell. I continue to come here because almost all of the posters here are sympathetic and I have learned a lot and I hope that perhaps I can sometime help somebody.

While I don't have much scientific understanding of the mechanisms of depression, I have plenty of experience and that can often help much more than all the scientific citations in the world.

Natalie

[osuzana]

Well Said destro! :thup: Osuz

[Candiflip]

Hi,
I really wish I could be like some of you and go Med free. I really do. Believe me I have tired. I have been dealing with depression for almost my whole life. I was diagnosed Manic depressed/BiPolar which was more than likely passed down to me. I grew up with a biPolar Grandmother, Mother, & aunt. I have seen so many different doctors & have been put on so many different medications. I can't even count how many they have tried on me. They have even tried shock treatment. It's hard ya know. I don't want to be popping pills my whole life so there were time when I just stopped taking my medications. During those time I started feeling the Highs of the BiPolar. I would go out and drink, do drugs, sleep around. Do things that I would never do. When I was on a real high, could last from 2 day-2 weeks..I wouldn't remember what happen. Then when I would come down from the high it was so horrible. It is such a bad depression. I have tried to commit suicide 4 times, twice the ambulance has had to bring me back to life. I have spend years in mental hospitals, putting my life on hold.

It is hard for me to talk about all of this because it brings back a lot of memories that I just don't want to remember but I have to think about how I felt when I was off of meds. I just tired recently to go off again & it was horrible. I do talk to a doctor once a month, not as much as I used to. I don't have a psych. anymore Like I did back in California. I used to see my Psych 3 time a month. Money issue, $200 a visit up here. I don't have insurance since I moved to Canada. But that is besides that point.

I don't feel as though I was ever addicted to any of the medication I was put onto. I don't doubt what anyone says on here that they feel that they have been or are themselves addicted to Paxil or some other med. But me, myself have never felt addicted to ANY of them. I have been able to stop every one of them with no side effects except for my chemical imbalance coming back in full force. This might be because I suffer from more than just depression, I don't know. I would think that I would be addicted to them though because I was put on very high doses of most of them.

I feel very sorry for the Person that has no compassion for people that suffer from depression. I hate when people say that Depression is all in your head, meaning that it can go away if you want it to, that you are making it be there. It is not like that. I think after suffering from Manic Depression for 11 year now, don't you think that I want it to go away? Don't you think if there was something I could do, I would?

SomeSizer, What kind of Psychology are you studying? I think maybe you should talk to a few of your professors about your opinions on depression. How that people with depression DO NOT HAVE CHEMICAL IMBALANCES. I really don't think they would feel the same way you do. I don't know if you are going for a degree in Medicine/Psychology...I would hate to see another person go into the practice just for the money. I have seen so many Psychologist myself like that, that just don't care about their patients, that have an attitude like you. It really is sad. Depression is NOT in my head..I can not make it go away. I hope someday you will come to realize that depression is an illness. And that there really are Chemical Imbalances.

Thank you

Candice

[fiona]

Thank you Candice for speaking about something that is really hard for you. :thup:

It really is okay if you need to take medication to keep the scales balanced. If you had diabetes etc you would not think twice about taking medication for it.

MD is a double edged sword - twice as hard because you have both the highs and the lows to bring back to centre. You need all the help you can get. Use everything to your advantage.

Learn from the lives of your grandmother, mother and aunt. Try not to make the same mistakes they did. Ask them what helped to keep them on an even keel. If you do get that low TALK to somone - a piece of paper if no-one else will listen.

Things have changed a little in recent times but electric shock treatment (ECT) was something that was bound to leave a deep psychological impact on anyone who went through it. You were strapped tight so you could not move - very much like those on death row. Talk about feeling totally helpless and at the mercy of the "experts". Did it empower you to take control of your life?

Take Loving, Gentle, Accepting care,

[danwoody]

For Tanya

I went trhough my doctor to get the prescription for the liquid form of paxil. I live in England and thats how it works

i know you can get it in the states because it was someone from over there who alerted me to the liquid in the first place

As for Candice, i feel for you i really do

its so hard being clinically depressed knowing that you need Meds to function

However i would say to you that so long as your meds dont make you feel strung out and do indeed relieve your symptoms then thats cool

Soo what if to have a normal life you need to take a pill in the morning. The fact is you are here and you are loved and eventually it will all make sense

[DuPont]

I agree with Fiona, Bi-polar depression is the type of illness you will have to take medication for the rest of your life. If your doctor told you you had liver disease and you needed to take medication for the rest of your life you probably wouldn't hesitate to follow his directions. It's the same for Manic Depression. My mother-in-law is manic and after her last suicide attempt, she has not stopped taking her meds. It's been about 10 years now. But for her I think the key was finding the right combination of drugs.

[garrison]

I agree with what the others have said. We all have to do what we can to live a HAPPY and healthy life. If a tiny pill prescribed by your physician assists you in living a more fulfilling life, then I support it 100%!!

Listening to our bodies and doing what we can to live happily means that we are taking charge of our lives and turning the tables by taking control of our situations!

Candice, you're going to make it through this, girl. We are all standing with you. :there:

[Candiflip]

Thank you. You all are so kind.

I am not ashamed of being BiPolar or having to take medication. I just get frustrated sometimes, mostly with the doctors for switching my meds so many times. Putting me on ones that make me gain weight, make me have no sex drive, keep me up all night, make me jittery.... Then when they try to even it out they add another pill. I sometimes I am up to 5 meds at one time. I got tired of that & said NO MORE just about 2 1/2 months ago. My husband was a little upset but just let me figure it out myself again that I need to go back on them. I waited about 3 1/2 weeks till I went back to the Dr. Not a day didn't go by that My husband didn't ask how I was doing, am I okay, do you want to start taking your meds again? I am so lucky to of married someone that accepts this part of me. Right now I am only on two and feeling okay. I stuck with my two 'base' *laughing*, I say base being I have been taking wellbutrin for so long now, & topamax & just had the topamax increased.
I think everyone has up & down days

Fiona, electric shock treatment Did help for a while. It did make me feel better. But then after a while just like all the other medications it stopped working. I must admit being 16 year old..It was horrible experience for me. Only because it stopped working.. Someone there in the hospital was having great results with it. She had been doing it for sometime & she didn't have the same thing happen as I did. I have noticed though that almost every drug that I have take hasn't work. I mean except for the Wellbutrin & Topamax. I also remember my experience with Prozac all too well..the doctor kept increasing it. I got up to 1400mg a day. It had a totally reversed on me.. I was so depressed. So then he increased my Wellbutrin to 450mg which 300 is the max dosage..I started having seizures. It was horrible. I got a new doctor. I do believe in trying new drugs but because I had a few doctors that abused that I get so scared sometimes. I trusted them. That is why I get so mad & frustrated why my dr. starts putting me on a new 'cocktail'. she knows why I get upset & she just sits back & lets things play out. *laughing*

Have a good day
Candice

[cristian]

Somersizing, I strongly DISAGREE with you. If depression is a mental thing, then why can't people just snap out of it. I have post-partum depressiona and OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder). OCD is when thoughts just pop into your mind...scary thoughts of hurting someone or yourself or other violent thoughts. YOu do not feel the urge to do them, but they just pop in your mind. My OCD revolves around the health and well being of my child. For example, if I see in the news that a child is kidnapped, I put myself in that situation. However, I take it to the extreme. I actually see myself crying over my child, having the police looking for him and finding him dead. This situations just play in your mind and then cause anxiety. My problem kicked in Dec 2001 when I was watching the news on the Lemak case (she killed her 3 kids because her husband left her for another woman). Well, I became very nervous. I tried to occupy myself and when I tried to play with my son, pillow fights, I saw myself suffocating my child, my child lying dead, me being dragged off, etc. Now let me clarify this...OCD is very different from what Yates/Lemak suffered from. They had post partum psychosis which is the loss of reality. They believe things that are so bizarre and even if you prove to them that they are not true, they still believe it. For example, Yates believe she was the devil, that the #'s 666 were branded in her head. A person who is aware that they have a problem and is seeking help is sane and will be cured. I thank God that this was a one time episode for me of having thoughts of myself hurting my child. I would never ever touch a hair on his body.

To sum this up, Somersizing, people with depression have a curable illness and you should know that if you are taking psychology.

I have a question for you to pound on. When someone is depressed because a close relative dies, is it all in their head??? Think about it and you will see my point.

[cristian]

I forgot another thing. This is for sommersizing. I am not being hostile. I am just trying to clarify that depression is an illness that is curable with medication and much better with a combo of meds and therapy.

I wanted to point out too that a person past life does have a lot to do with depression and other mental illness. This is another reason why depression is not all in the head. People with traumatic pasts can develop mental illnesses. For example, I grew up with a very abusive father. He would mentally and physically abuse my brother and me. The punishments were so extreme that I now have some compulsive behavior like scrubbing down the bathroom even if it is spotless. Why? Because when I still was at home, my dad would wake me up in the middle of the night so I could scrub down the bathroom because it was clean to his satisfaction. When I got married, I was traumatised by this, that "out of habit" I would scrub down my bathroom. My husband has helped me out tremendously with my compulsive behavior. I have other behavior too but it would be too much to put down.

My point is, Somersizing, that mental illness is not a mental thing. It is an illness that can be caused by traumatic pasts or chemical imbalances. How about the veterans that suffer from post event trauma. I have an uncle who was in the persian gulf war. He saw a lot of blood and killings. He was so traumitized that he had a stroke at the age of 30. Is that a mental thing? NO it is a trauma that needs treatment.

[LORI JO]

Garrison, you asked -

Has anyone around here ever experienced withdrawel symptoms from getting off of Effexor XR?

Yes! I didn't know there would be side effects, so I went cold turkey, instead of stepping down gradually. I experienced headaches, dizziness, electrical zapping in my head and fingertips, vertigo. All magnified x100! I was off for almost a year, but found I needed to go back on them. I swear I will never do cold turkey again when it's time to quit.

HTH -

Lori

[danwoody]

How long did it take you to recover Lori Jo?

[fiona]

Lori-Jo: I didn't know there would be side effects, so I went cold turkey, instead of stepping down gradually. I experienced headaches, dizziness, electrical zapping in my head and fingertips, vertigo.

That's what worried me. When you start taking these drugs you are sometimes feeling too unwell to check out the consequences. Even when you are forward thinking enough to ask the doctor, you often do not get a straight answer. Of course the doc doesn't want to put you off what s/he is prescribing so he is "economical with the truth".

{All magnified x100!} That's the dangerous bit. Always do it gently with your doctor and loved ones keeping a close eye on you because it is impossible to be rational and cool when you are in the middle of any kind of withdrawal symptoms. Carb withdrawal is a prime example that everyone on this board would identify with.

That you had to go back to them again is another thing that worried me. How many people once they start taking anti-deps can stay off them. In my five year stint with a-ds I found the same people coming back again and again after relapses. You develop a "reliance"/addiction to them everytime you are under stress. Difficult, stressful situations sooner or later are a guarantee in anyone's life. There are other ways of coping with stress : without drugs is my preferred method.

That is just my perspective and why I chose to go the way I did. I don't regret it.
Take Educated, Informed, Loving care,

[LORI JO]

Danwoody - took close to 2 weeks.

Fiona - Thanks for your comments.

That you had to go back to them again is another thing that worried me. Difficult, stressful situations sooner or later are a guarantee in anyone's life. There are other ways of coping with stress : without drugs is my preferred method.

I agree that people should not abuse a-deps. Believe me, my reasons were not frivolous. I lost over 10 friends and family members on 9/11 - people I grew up with, went to school with, had a history with. My sister was 2 floors under where the plane hit and my brother across the street. A cousin's whole PD squad was wiped out. I don't think anyone expects or deserves that kind of stress in their life. The Effexor takes the edge off things, which is fine for me right now. I'm glad that you can deal with your stresses in a natural way; right now I am coping the way I need to.


Lori

[garrison]

I just wanted to express my condolences for the many loved ones you lost on 9/11. My heart goes out to you. And you are right, NO ONE should come to expect that kind of stress in their lives as "normal". . . your situation was clearly unique and, I'm sure, traumatic.

I asked my doctor about the effects of taking Effexor and the side-effects associated with coming off of them. He told me the truth! He told me that there would be headaches, increased nausea at times, pain...and he expressed the necessity of S L O W L Y tapering off of the drug throughout the course of several weeks.

I guess I should count myself lucky that I have an honest doctor, huh?

[Tanyaskees]

Lori Jo, I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am about everything you are going through. 9/11 was a horrible day and will never be forgotten by anyone. My thoughts are with you and your family.

Garrison, your doc is right, slowly is the key. I have been tapering off Paxil for a week now and the worst so far is an ocasional vertigo(sp?). I expected worse, but this is just the beginning. I also started working out hoping that would make it easier.

[lilwannabe]

Lori Jo

I am so sorry to hear about your losses...nobody should have to go through what you have been through. I think we all were devestated over 9/11...Even your neighbors to the north. I know I sat in front of the tv for days...crying...I could not believe that something so tragic had happened. I did not lose anyone however... still felt the need to grieve...I guess for our society as a whole...I could not imagine being in your position. You do what ever you need to do to, to help yourself through this. Hugs!

And God bless North America! Amen!

[fiona]

http://www.adoptioncards.com/cards/hug.gif Lori-Jo: I agree that people should not abuse a-deps. Believe me, my reasons were not frivolous. ...... The Effexor takes the edge off things, which is fine for me right now. ........ right now I am coping the way I need to.

I do believe you. I was not in any way being critical - please don't read it that way. Without drugs was MY choice - that does not mean it needs to be yours.

I whole heartedly agree with SHORT-TERM use of ante-depressants to help tide one over a difficult period. What you describe is most definitely a VERY painful, stressful, sudden-shock situation. I am very glad that you are taking care and doing whatever you need to do to help you cope with the situation. I was feeling sick and ill for a couple of weeks after 9/ll (read my journal entries around that time). I did not even know anyone personally so I can't imagine what it must be like for you.

Garrison, it restores my faith in humanity when I hear that some people's experiences of the Mental Health System have been good.

http://www.missabigail.com/images/healing.gif
Take care,

[LORI JO]

Thank you all for your kind words and comfort. :rheart: This forum has the nicest, most caring people in the world.

Fiona, I didn't take your post to be critical - typed words just don't give you that same nuance as spoken words! :) Hope you didn't take mine to be overly defensive.


Lori

[fiona]

Lori-Jo,

I felt your post was a little defensive but then I realised I was defending my choice too. It's become an automatic response for me over the years - like changing the gear without thinking of it ;)

I think sometimes we tend to "internalise" and "compare" without being consciously aware that we are setting ourselves a standard that could possibly be understandably difficult to measure up to.

You are so right - words have diferent associations for each individual.

Take Loving, Accepting, Understanding Care

[destro]

Hello everyone,

I have been reading and pondering. All of you are such brave and wonderful people to put your stories out here. I hope that writing about it is helpful.


I've been struggling with a very low-grade depression myself for a few days now. It's a cyclical thing. Anyhow, I have been helped by you people. You are all courageous and when you write, I hope that you not only help yourselves but realize that you are helping others.

I feel nothing but deep compassion and sympathy for everyone here.

Natalie

[autumnrb]

Hi -- I am a new member and was interested in this site because I suffer from anxiety (that seems to have made me a social paralytic) and mild depression. Paxil was a miracle drug for me and completely changed my life for the better. However, after reading about Paxil lawsuits and effects of long term use I stopped taking it and replaced it with GABA Plus by Twin Lab (natural -- I believe an amino acid?) after reading a "homeopathic" book. Anyway, I have had great results with it and wanted to pass that info along in case it could help anyone else.

[Tanyaskees]

Hi autumnrb, please tell me more. I have been taking Paxil for years, and just now tried to get off the drug. I feel terrible, I have been taking half a doze for a little more then a week. This morning I caved in and went back to the full doze, I just feel so bad. The vertigo is the worst. Tell me how you got off. Any advice will be appritiated :)

[danwoody]

Oh Tanya

Im really upset that you caved in

Please listen to me .............

Get the liquid form of paxil and come off it by reducing the dose by 1mg every week using the liquid

Please trust me this is how to do it

You can go cold turkey but as you have already experienced some of the withdrawal, if you go cold turkey it will be about 100 times worse.

Do it the liquid way and although it will be a hard slog it will be much mellower and you will get there

Im not gonna lie to you, you will be miserable for about the next three to six months as you get over it, but im about five months into it and soo close now

It feels so good to know im almost finally clean of paxil.

My prayers go out to you

Dan

[autumnrb]

Tanya -- I wish I could give you advice about getting off Paxil. I did not have any trouble getting off of it (but I took it less than a year). I think I am in the minority because I have had friends experience exactly what you are talking about. If you type "paxil side effects" into a search engine, a Paxil support group will be listed (on Yahoo, anyway). They may be a better resource about getting off. As far as the GABA, I will write you back and give you the name of the book/author I was talking about (my mom has the book) and the site I ordered it from, if interested. Hang in there!!

autumnrb

[Tanyaskees]

Dan, thank you so much for you consern and support. I feel miserable, see, I can't even spell......LOL. I think I will try again, but later, after my new house is build. I am also having marital problems, once all of that is resolved, I will get off the meds, I just don't think it is the right time now. I could probably handle the mental withdrawls, but it is the physical that get me. I go to work and can't think, my head is spinning and all I want to do is go home. This stuff is something else. I know I need to get off it.

autumnrb, thanks for the reply. I wonder if I start taking GABA, it will be easier to drop paxil. Or maybe St. John's wort.

Guys, if my head would just stop spinning, I would be alright. I even started working out thinking it would help. It helps imotionally, but not the other. Dan, I will call my Dr. and for liquid paxil. Thanks guys, please keep writing. I love talking to people that understand.

[garrison]

Hey Tanya! Haven't had the chance to talk in here for a while lately.

I just wanted to encourage you to take things slow and steady at your OWN pace. Only YOU can truly determine the right pace for your body and your circumstances. There is no deadline for you to get off of Paxil. Eventually you will reach your goal with the little successes that you have each and every day.

I wish you the best and I know that you will reach your goal!

[Tanyaskees]

Hey girl, I missed you :). Thanks for the kind words. I hate it that I caved in to paxil, I was just soooo sick. Oh well, I will stop one of these days. Good hearing from you.

[garrison]

Girl, you didn't "cave in" to Paxil. You made the decision that things are too hectic right now to try to make major changes. I honestly think that was a GOOD decision, don't you?

If you're in the process of building a house AND you have some marital problems right now, then I definitely agree that now is not the best time to tackle weaning yourself off of Paxil. (Of course, I'm not a doctor and I don't know all of your situation.)

I'm here for you, girl. :there:

[Tanyaskees]

Thanks you :). I also quit smoking 2 months ego....just too much at one time. I feel much better now that I am back on paxil. Anxiety is not fun. I have to a 9:30 meeting, but I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for the hug, I needed it.