Extra Virgin Suicide

[bike2work]

I've read in the past that the olive oil industry is highly corrupt and that most oils labeled "olive oil" are actually something else; The New York Times has a short piece about how it happens:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/01/24/opinion/food-chains-extra-virgin-suicide.html?ref=opinion&ref=opinion

[Whofan]

As long as Kerrygold butter doesn't commit suicide I'm happy.

[MandalayVA]

As long as Kerrygold butter doesn't commit suicide I'm happy.

I would cry most piteously if that ever happened. I love my Kerrygold. (zealously guards stash)

[Verbena]

I have taken to getting my olive oil when I drive through an olive growing area in California (at least once a year). It could also be adulterated of course, but I trust not. And, ultimately, that is really all one can do, with anything, short of producing it oneself: trust.

[rightnow]

I recall that big study that found only the Sam's club brand was 100% olive oil. Everything else ranged from highly adulterated to not any of it at all. Chemicals now allow complete disguise of other cheaper oils.

I pretty much quit ingesting olive oil after reading that.

And to think we're so (justifiably) concerned about what's in supplements. But even a super regulated industry like food with a single ingredient can't hold to any integrity.

PJ

[keith v]

I wonder if the expensive oils found in the olive oil boutique stores are any better.

[WereBear]

Why I love hemp oil and coconut oil!

[bike2work]

My strategy in recent years has been to buy certified organic, either from an olive grower in California or from Newman Organics. Newman seems like a conscientious brand and if it's certified organic, maybe somebody looked into its origin?

Lard and tallow don't work well on salad, save spinach salad with warm bacon dressing.

[Cleome]

Nov 2010:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/5-things-you-should-buy-at-costco/
Costco’s Kirkland Signature Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil may be the best-kept secret in the store. At $9.99 for 1.5 liters, it is roughly half the cost of the well-known Bertolli brand, and yet, according to at least one independent study, it’s much better. In a recent comparison of 19 olive oils on the market, The Olive Center, a research group at the University of California-Davis, found that Kirkland Organic was one of only five in the study not mixed with cheaper refined olive oil that can spoil the taste. The other four at the top of the list were all high-end brands that cost as much as five times Costco’s. Make sure you buy the Costco version that’s labeled organic, though, as opposed to the one that’s simply called “extra virgin olive oil.” It’ll cost a little bit more, but it’s worth it.
The UC Davis Olive Center link is no longer working.

[bike2work]

My strategy in recent years has been to buy certified organic, either from an olive grower in California or from Newman Organics. Newman seems like a conscientious brand and if it's certified organic, maybe somebody looked into its origin?

Lard and tallow don't work well on salad, save spinach salad with warm bacon dressing.
Oops. Found this from 2010:

Found to have be fraudulently labeled as Extra-Virgin:
Whole Foods
Rachel Ray
Safeway
Newman's Own
Colavita
Bertolli
Filippo Berio
Pompeian
Star
Carapelli
Mezzetta
Mazzola

Found to be accurately labeled as Extra-Virgin:
Kirkland Organic
Corto Olive
California Olive Ranch
McEvoy Ranch Organic

I hope the corrupt ones have since corrected the problem.

[chinacat]

I have taken to getting my olive oil when I drive through an olive growing area in California (at least once a year). It could also be adulterated of course, but I trust not. And, ultimately, that is really all one can do, with anything, short of producing it oneself: trust.

Smart ;)
I have gone to visit/toured an olive oil company in Corning California and LOVE their oils!

The range of flavors are amazing from the different olives
Some oils taste like butter while others have a pepper taste
Not to mention the infused oils they do... meyer lemon, basil, garlic, mandarin orange, garlic.... even a chocolate infused olive oil

The one that is really a treat and I get a few bottles of is the olio nuovo
This is only made at harvest in September and it is unfiltered and bottled right after pressing, leaves it cloudy and must be used within a 3 month window.
Amazing!!!

What's funny is it isn't that much more $$ than the store oils, you get what you pay for though

[Nancy LC]

Glad to see Kirkland is pure. That's what I have been using for some time now. Man, that stuff has a kick! Try taking a spoonful of it. You will cough.

[MandalayVA]

Glad to see Kirkland is pure. That's what I have been using for some time now. Man, that stuff has a kick! Try taking a spoonful of it. You will cough.

Kirkland is probably the best house brand anywhere. I only use extra virgin in salad dressings and I can really taste the difference.

[M Levac]

The whole idea of olive oil comes directly from one guy, Ancel Keys. He's the father of the lipid hypothesis, and this hypothesis dominates our entire food industry and medical practice. You'd think they'd be more honest about olive oil, since it should keep us healthy according to Keys. Seems to me few people really takes olive oil seriously, and those that do are ready to charge an arm and a leg for it, and pay that much too. I find it ironic that olive oil was found by Keys, since he was poor, therefore olive oil was probably only used by poor people who couldn't afford the real deal, but now it's one of the most expensive kind of fats on the planet. Seriously, pure unadulterated lard is $3.50/kg at my butcher. I've seen olive oil go for $40/200ml.

Extra Virgin Bankruptcy, morelike.

[keith v]

So .. what should I be using on my salads?
Coconut oil is a rock all winter here in Minnesota, as are all the sat fats I know of.

Hemp oil?

[chinacat]

The whole idea of olive oil comes directly from one guy, Ancel Keys. He's the father of the lipid hypothesis, and this hypothesis dominates our entire food industry and medical practice. You'd think they'd be more honest about olive oil, since it should keep us healthy according to Keys. Seems to me few people really takes olive oil seriously, and those that do are ready to charge an arm and a leg for it, and pay that much too. I find it ironic that olive oil was found by Keys, since he was poor, therefore olive oil was probably only used by poor people who couldn't afford the real deal, but now it's one of the most expensive kind of fats on the planet. Seriously, pure unadulterated lard is $3.50/kg at my butcher. I've seen olive oil go for $40/200ml.

Extra Virgin Bankruptcy, morelike.

This is your opinion and speculation... so it works for you.
Stay with your lard

I pay between $16 and $22 for a 500ml bottle
It is local... in Corning California
It is a family run business.... has been for 3 generations
and their different olive blends and varieties I find delicious.

[chinacat]

So .. what should I be using on my salads?
Coconut oil is a rock all winter here in Minnesota, as are all the sat fats I know of.

Hemp oil?

Hemp oil is nice... so is avocado oil :yum:

[Nancy LC]

How do you make salad dressing out of a saturated fat like lard or coconut oil? Seems like it would congeal into something rather grotesque because salad is usually cooler than 76 degrees.

[Nancy LC]

By the way, I learned something about olive oil... real olive oil anyway. You should never mix it with a blender, food processor, or immersion blender. Something about super high RPMs makes it bitter. Use a hand whisk or shake by hand.

I bet this is why olive oil mayo never tastes good.

[M Levac]

How do you make salad dressing out of a saturated fat like lard or coconut oil? Seems like it would congeal into something rather grotesque because salad is usually cooler than 76 degrees.
The same way you make it with blue cheese. The only thing oil is useful for is salad dressing. So you go, olive oil is good, but then it's only good for salad dressing, so salad must be good too by extension. Otherwise, you'd eat the olive oil straight on its own for its own benefit (if any). Seth Roberts' experiment tells us otherwise. Here's an alternative: Oolichan oil. It's an oil, made from fish. I'm not arguing the merits of either salad or fish, I'm just questioning the belief in olive oil.

[M Levac]

By the way, I learned something about olive oil... real olive oil anyway. You should never mix it with a blender, food processor, or immersion blender. Something about super high RPMs makes it bitter. Use a hand whisk or shake by hand.

I bet this is why olive oil mayo never tastes good.
Oh, that's interesting. High-speed mixing is a sort of emulsion. This means there's air in-between the oil molecules, therefore a greater tendency to oxidize, i.e. to turn rancid. Or, the air comes into contact with the non-oil stuff (the plant matter that isn't oil) and makes it more available or something. Could explain the change in taste.

[M Levac]

This is your opinion and speculation... so it works for you.
Stay with your lard

I pay between $16 and $22 for a 500ml bottle
It is local... in Corning California
It is a family run business.... has been for 3 generations
and their different olive blends and varieties I find delicious.
I would really like to stop speculating, but there's so little fact about olive oil. Do any of you know of an experiment that tests any of the claimed benefits of olive oil?

[chinacat]

I would really like to stop speculating, but there's so little fact about olive oil. Do any of you know of an experiment that tests any of the claimed benefits of olive oil?

My husbands full Italian grandmother.... :D
she drank it everyday
lived to a nice old age and had BEAUTIFUL skin ;)

Do you know of any tests/experiments that are reputable and claim it it doesn't have benefits??

[chinacat]

http://www.pinnaclife.com/sites/default/files/research/Elxevier_Coronary_disease.pdf
That is a study on Olive oil and the cardiovascular system

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/228671.php
This is a French study on older people and stroke prevention

Just google benefits of olive oil research and read away

[M Levac]

My husbands full Italian grandmother.... :D
she drank it everyday
lived to a nice old age and had BEAUTIFUL skin ;)

Do you know of any tests/experiments that are reputable and claim it it doesn't have benefits??
That's a good question. Due to the very high value of olive oil, there is a very strong financial incentive not to attempt to disprove any believed benefit, and in turn the same very high financial incentive to maintain this belief, which in turn maintains the value. I doubt I'll find any genuine experiment that tries to refute the claimed benefits.

Note the first paper you cited, table 1. In several experiments, the effect noted is "none". How can that be if olive oil was so good for us? When a thing has an inherent quality to it, it should show up every time we measure its effect. But when the effect comes from some other agent, it's all up for grabs, and we end up with some experiments that show no effect for the thing measured. Consider low-carb for example. In every experiment, LC has an effect, but not only does it have an effect, it's always found superior to other diets. The key word here is "always". So, in a similar review of LC, we'd never find any experiment that says "no effect" in table 1.

Just to clarify, I prefer experimental studies instead of observational studies. I usually ignore observational studies. Also, I prefer end-point experiments instead of secondary markers. You know, things like skin quality vs blood markers for skin quality. Anyway, thank you for posting the papers. I would google it up, but I'm lazy, and the few results I found a few minutes ago tell me there's very little to be found. I did find a blog titled "Truth in Olive Oil". It was an interesting read, until I noted how the author held up Ancel Keys as a solid basis for his arguments. I expected a bit more truth from that blog considering the title.

Look, I think I sound contentious. I don't mean to. I'm just mad about something else entirely (unrelated to the topic, to you, or basically anything we're discussing here), and I think it affects my mood and the way I write. Sorry about that.

[teaser]

I don't think there's anything in particular wrong with olive oil--but there's not enough to replace all the lard, beef fat and butter Keys wanted us to replace with it.

At my current room temperature, olive oil doesn't actually pour, so no advantage there.

[Whofan]

I prefer my salads with a splash of balsamic vinegar or a squeeze of lemon. But if I'm in the mood for oil I use almond oil. Luckily, I'm not in that mood very often because it is ridiculously expensive.

I'm also a fan of melted bacon grease on salads if I happen to have some leftover from breakfast. Seriously, what doesn't taste better with a little bacon flavor?

[KDH]

So is it mislabeled extra virgin and actually a second pressing?? Or actually something else, not olive oil at all? That list didn't make it clear.

[MandalayVA]

I prefer my salads with a splash of balsamic vinegar or a squeeze of lemon. But if I'm in the mood for oil I use almond oil. Luckily, I'm not in that mood very often because it is ridiculously expensive.

I'm also a fan of melted bacon grease on salads if I happen to have some leftover from breakfast. Seriously, what doesn't taste better with a little bacon flavor?

I know someone who uses melted butter on their salads. To me it's an odd combination and I can't bring myself to try it but she says it's delicious.

[Verbena]

By the way, I learned something about olive oil... real olive oil anyway. You should never mix it with a blender, food processor, or immersion blender. Something about super high RPMs makes it bitter. Use a hand whisk or shake by hand.

I bet this is why olive oil mayo never tastes good.

I happen to quite like mayonnaise made with olive oil. Sometimes, if I have it, I'll add a bit of avocado oil, and lately I've been adding a spoonful of walnut oil, which adds a nice flavor. But plain olive oil is just fine, in my opinion. As mayonnaise is a Mediterranean invention - N. Spain or S. France - it is pretty obvious that the original was made with olive oil. I sometimes wonder what those original mayonnaise makers would make of the white, thick stuff out of a jar; nothing at all like what they were used to! I too have read about the occasional bitterness caused by high speed agitation, so I just use a whisk. Good exercise, and only takes about 15 minutes.
I think the greatest benefit of olive oil is that it has been around, and highly valued for millenia; it has a long tradition, and I am all for tradition. I use a lot of olive oil, but then I also use a lot of lard and bacon fat, butter, and - when I have it - duck and goose fat.

[RawNut]

In the US you can buy olive oil that has been tested several times throughout the growing season and certified.
www.cooc.com/ (http://www.cooc.com/)

I use California Olive Ranch olive oil. Places like Walmart and Publix carry it.

[Nancy LC]

Are you using EVOO for it? I know refined olive oil acts a little differently. And you use a whisk, that would probably be fine, but I wonder how really authentic EVOO will work. That stuff is peppery.

[RobLL]

I do not buy olive oil except from retailers big enough to stand behind their product. Big Box and large chain stores are large enough to do their own testing. You simply can't hold a corner grocery store responsible for what they sell to the same degree.

[bike2work]

So is it mislabeled extra virgin and actually a second pressing?? Or actually something else, not olive oil at all? That list didn't make it clear.
It can be either or both. The olive oil that's not extra virgin can have damaged fats. IIRC, damaged fats damage artery walls leading to the build up of plaques that can ultimately block the blood vessel.

[Nancy LC]

I do not buy olive oil except from retailers big enough to stand behind their product. Big Box and large chain stores are large enough to do their own testing. You simply can't hold a corner grocery store responsible for what they sell to the same degree.
Ummm... I think you'll find the major grocery stores are also selling the adulterated EVOO. They were listed in this thread and I know I've seen them everywhere.

[Verbena]

Are you using EVOO for it? I know refined olive oil acts a little differently. And you use a whisk, that would probably be fine, but I wonder how really authentic EVOO will work. That stuff is peppery.

Nancy - I use EVOO (I don't buy any other kind). Personally, I like the taste. DH isn't that keen, but then he doesn't particularly like any mayonnaise. So I make it to my taste. When I add avocado oil that tones it down some, as a. oil has very little flavor of its own. EVOO would most likely be too intense for many who are looking for a faux commercial mayo.

[Verbena]

Chinacat wrote:

I pay between $16 and $22 for a 500ml bottle
It is local... in Corning California
It is a family run business.... has been for 3 generations
and their different olive blends and varieties I find delicious.

Chinacat - I get mine in Corning as well, at the Olive Pit. Do you go there, or somewhere else?

[mike_d]

Cool slide show. I have over half a 33 oz bottle of prime "Rustico Asaro Unfiltered" from Sicily -- my nose and tongue tell me it's likely over the hill after 2 years of storage, so I may just toss it. Olive oil always tastes a bit funny or bitter to me compared to other oils so I use very little of it. The commercial Olive Oil mayo is a low-fat Franken concoction that includes water, starch and other oils in addition to the possibly tarnished Olive Oil. It's to be avoided IMO.

[Zei]

I read someplace you stick the olive oil bottle in the fridge and if it all turns to hardened slush it's real, if there's still liquid after it's cooled some of it is fake. Anyone know if that's an accurate way to tell?

[Nancy LC]

It might be a good test. I do know that olive oil gets pretty goopy in the fridge.

[Bonnie OFS]

I read someplace you stick the olive oil bottle in the fridge and if it all turns to hardened slush it's real, if there's still liquid after it's cooled some of it is fake. Anyone know if that's an accurate way to tell?

If that's an accurate test, then I guess my Bertolli is OK.

[Bonnie OFS]

By the way, I learned something about olive oil... real olive oil anyway. You should never mix it with a blender, food processor, or immersion blender. Something about super high RPMs makes it bitter. Use a hand whisk or shake by hand.

I bet this is why olive oil mayo never tastes good.

I gave up making my own mayo with EVOO becuase it always tasted off to me. But then, so does commercial mayo. I read just a couple days ago that mayo should be made with light-tasting olive oil. I believe that's processed more than EVOO, but is supposed to taste better in homemade mayo. I bought a bottle, but haven't gotten around to trying it.

[M Levac]

Have any of you tried to make mayo with lard or butter or some other kind of solid fat? I also wonder if commercial mayo has ever been done with those before. And then I wonder if traditional mayo used to be done with those as well, but because of Keys, we now make it with veggie oil instead.

[deirdra]

Have any of you tried to make mayo with lard or butter or some other kind of solid fat? I also wonder if commercial mayo has ever been done with those before. And then I wonder if traditional mayo used to be done with those as well, but because of Keys, we now make it with veggie oil instead.Bacon Mayonnaise is great. You have to melt the fat on very low heat and make sure it is not too hot to cook the egg but not too cold to solidify again. I suspect farmers and early settlers used animal fat since it was readily available. Collecting grains & squeezing out the oil is time consuming. http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/25/introducing-a-recipe-contest-with-prizes/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

[M Levac]

Bacon Mayonnaise is great. You have to melt the fat on very low heat and make sure it is not too hot to cook the egg but not too cold to solidify again. I suspect farmers and early settlers used animal fat since it was readily available. Collecting grains & squeezing out the oil is time consuming. http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/25/introducing-a-recipe-contest-with-prizes/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
I did a quick search and found a few interesting things. Let's see. Baconnaise, Beefonnaise, Lambonnaise, Lardonnaise. You can guess which fat they're made with. :) I never tried any of them, but that's gonna be my next project. Probably. (not to make them, but to try them if anybody else makes them, cuz you know, I'm lazy :) )

[Verbena]

Have any of you tried to make mayo with lard or butter or some other kind of solid fat? I also wonder if commercial mayo has ever been done with those before. And then I wonder if traditional mayo used to be done with those as well, but because of Keys, we now make it with veggie oil instead.

Sorry, here comes a history lesson. If your eyes glaze over at the mention of long past dates please skip this post :lol:

Mayonnaise originally comes from N. Spain/S. France - there is some confusion about this, but it appears that mayo hit the wider public perception after the battle for Port Mahon in Minorca (Spain) in 1756 - http://www.bonappetit.com/test-kitchen/ingredients/article/on-the-etymology-of-the-word-mayonnaise - That being the case it is logical that the original oil used was olive oil, as that has been the cooking (and lighting, and whatever else) oil of choice in the olive growing regions all around the Mediterranean for millennia.
Somewhat later Louis XIV of France revoked the Edict of Nantes in 1685, which allowed greater persecution of Protestants in France, which meant that many Protestants left France for other countries, one of which was Holland. The French, albeit Protestant, housewives missed their mayonnaise, but olives don't grow in Holland. However cows do - very well. Dutch milk, butter, and cheese is renowned, and has been for a long time. Mayonnaise made with butter (to answer your question M Levac) is what we know as Hollandaise. Butter, being hard at room temperature, needs to be warmed (as would lard or bacon grease), and so Hollandaise is served warm, as mayonnaise is served cold.

End history lesson :lol:

Mayonnaise made with EVOO is, no doubt, an acquired taste. But then, so is pale, pasty white commercial mayo from a jar. I've eaten my share of the jar mayo (and actually quite like it - except that I no longer like the ingredients), but I also like the homemade olive oil mayo. I tend to think of them as two different things - the one does not substitute for the other; it is a thing apart.

[RawNut]

I love hollandaise! Never knew it was made with butter.