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Turtle2003

Fri, Dec-27-13, 20:55

From Dr. Feinman's blog:

The Swedish Health Ministry’s acceptance of low-carbohydrate diets as best for weight loss is one of the signs of big changes in nutrition policy. I am happy to reveal the next bombshell, this time from the American Diabetes Association (ADA) which will finally recognize the importance of reducing carbohydrate as the primary therapy in type 2 diabetes and as an adjunct in type 1. Long holding to a very reactionary policy — while there were many disclaimers, the ADA has previously held 45 – 60 % carbohydrate as some kind of standard — the agency has been making slow progress. A member of the writing committee who wishes to remain anonymous has given me a copy of the 2014 nutritional guidelines due to be released next year, an excerpt from which, I reproduce below.

Nutrition Therapy Recommendations for the Management of Adults With Diabetes

This position statement on nutrition therapy for individuals living with diabetes replaces previous position statements, the last of which was published in 2013 [1] and incorporated into the Standards of Medical Care of 2014 [2]. In particular, evidence suggests that the starting point for therapy for type 2 diabetes and adjunct treatment of type 1, should be some form of very low-carbohydrate diet. The amount of carbohydrates is the most important factor influencing glycemic response after eating and should be considered when developing the eating plan. Carbohydrate intake has a direct effect on postprandial glucose levels in people with diabetes and is the primary macronutrient of concern in glycemic management. While it is still recognized that there is not an ideal percentage of calories from carbohydrate for all people with diabetes, carbohydrate intake should be as low as possible for most people.

Is this real? Why did you believe it?

Is this real. No. It’s not real. It could be real if the American Diabetes Association adopts it. You believed that it was real because it is reasonable and it follows from both common sense and scientific principles. You believed it because it provided you with the data rather than giving you the opinion of a committee that chose whatever studies it wanted to, and took the conclusions at face value. Most of all, you believed it because we all want to believe it. Previous guidelines from the ADA have been incomprehensible and ultimately embarrassing. Since the principles of low-carbohydrate diets are so reasonable, bloggers and others have continually tried to find signs of their acceptance in each new position statement from the ADA, signs that could be described as “encouraging first steps.” Invariably, the ADA guidelines have been, instead, the camel-like creations of a committee characterized by stultifying clichés — one reason that you might have believed that the version above was real is that I included trivial phrases — the text that is in blue — from the 2013 guidelines. I wrote this because several bloggers tried to put a positive spin on the 2013 guidelines and I was going to comment on how little it would have taken for them to get it right. So I decided to write it for them.

More here (http://rdfeinman.wordpress.com/2013/12/27/american-diabetes-association-embraces-low-carbohydrate-diets/)

LC FP

Sat, Dec-28-13, 02:27

the new guidelines say nothing like this, as Richard predicts. Diabetics should eat healthy grains etc. as described in the current dietary recommendations for Americans in the section about carbs.

JLx

Sat, Dec-28-13, 06:33

I don't see how the ADA can recommend a low carb diet as long as the cholesterol/fat consensus prevails in mainstream medicine, with cardiac considerations being so high for diabetics.

costello22

Sat, Dec-28-13, 07:07

When I was reading this article, before I got to the point where it was not true, I was thinking how outraged the wheat and other grain industries were going to be. Let's face it, as long as big business has so much influence with govt and non-govt agencies and organizations, you and I will get crap nutritional advice. The advice is there to protect their profits not increase our health.

WereBear

Sat, Dec-28-13, 10:06

Just this past weekend, I was chatting with a friend whose father has diabetes. Partly through my influence, he has been "eating to his meter" and enjoying excellent blood sugar control.

On his last checkup, the "nutritionist" complimented him on his great numbers, and in the very next breath added, "But you aren't eating enough carbohydrates."

He protested that if he ate more carbohydrates, he wouldn't have such great numbers! But it was like talking to the wall. Fortunately, he's not listening.

Judynyc

Sat, Dec-28-13, 10:54

This makes me sad and angry at the same time.
This also has big pharma effected. When people with type 2 figure out that they can control their BS by controlling their carb intake, they won't need meds for it.
We all know that Big pharma won't allow that to happen! grrrrrr

WereBear

Sat, Dec-28-13, 11:48

When people with type 2 figure out that they can control their BS by controlling their carb intake, they won't need meds for it.

You are right, Judy; a substantial number of people, like us, prefer to use non-pill methods to reach our health goals.

Hey, we all know friends and family who say, "Oh, I'll just take a pill," and these are the pharmaceutical industry's "natural prey." BUT there is an alternative, and I find it outrageous that corporate profits try to block access to such knowledge.

Sometimes, like my own father, I fail. Sometimes, like a friend's father, I succeed. So it goes.

Judynyc

Sat, Dec-28-13, 12:43

Cleome

Sat, Dec-28-13, 16:19

jmh

Sat, Dec-28-13, 16:37

My senior kitty was just diagnosed with diabetes. After the veterinarian explained to me how to give the cat insulin shots, she handed me a lower carb diabetic kibble to try out -- at least lowering dietary carbohydrates seems to be the standard treatment for our pets in the US!

It's funny - I like watching those animal rescue programmes and have had cats and dogs as pets in the past. The vets seem to be pretty clued up on ideas such as animals should eat a diet they are designed for, e.g. meat for cats as they are carnivores. Occasionally I hear other comments that are contrary to what mainsteam doctors would say about humans.

Having said this, my vet thinks my dog would be healthier with dry food - I don't agree of course. Most of it is starch and fillers and very bad for her. She's thrived since I put her on a raw food (meat) diet. Her treats are 100% liver chips, so I guess on the whole she's pretty low carb.

LosingMe16

Sat, Dec-28-13, 17:01

I talk with a wide variety of customers who are diabetics. I would say it is the most common disease spread across the population of those who come into my store looking for something to take to help them (either for their diabetes or for weight loss). For most of these people, the idea of changing their diet versus taking a pill is inconceivable; they would prefer not to change their eating habits and attempt to control it through a separate product of some sort. It's the most frustrating thing ever. My aunt thinks that it's alright if she drinks her Mountain Dews...as long as she gives herself insulin to level her blood sugar back out afterwards. These people are unwilling to change and are completely enslaved to food, carbs, and their way of life. You could talk until you're blue in the face and a grand majority of these that are stubborn wouldn't listen for the world.

I wish sometimes that I could teach these people what I have done for myself; I did not have any issues with diabetes, blood pressure or cholesterol, but I was obese (now I'm simply considered overweight, but this is the same size I was in high school when I was extremely fit). Most people, however, just do not "get" it and would prefer to keep their lifestyle. Just think if some of us started a weight loss clinic and only allowed people to eat low-carb -- they'd think we'd performed a miracle LOL!

I think that, while lobbying, Big Pharma, and large scale grain food companies are involved in politics we will not see American dietary guidelines change as a whole, whether for diabetes, BP, or cholesterol. It's a shame really.

aamama

Sat, Dec-28-13, 19:58

I live next door to my husbands grand parents. We inherited the family business from them, and therefore deal with them on an HOURLY basis. Dh's grandma has been a type 2 diabetic since 1981. For that entire 32 years she has lived by the tenet "i will eat what I want and just take more insulin". It is so ingrained in her mindset now that she can't fathom functioning without all the things she loves. She eats cookies, ice cream, cake, bread, pasta and candy daily. All day. A normal BG meter reading for her is between 24 and 29. Not surprisingly, in the last few months she has been hospitalized six times for various problems. Each time I am present when a doctor tells her explicitly that her problem is directly related to her CONSTANT high sugars and then slamming tons of insulin into her bloodstream to bring it down. I see her inject four to five times per day. each hospitalization she is discharged from the hospital, gets home, and her daughters say "so what's the problem". Her response? "They don't know". She has her children all convinced that she has some mysterious deadly illness causing all these random problems. When in fact: the reason she's supposed to be on oxygen 24/7, why she vomits every morning at 3 am, why her eyes, legs, and hands no longer function, why she has terrible bowel problems? Organs and arteries hardening from high BS. According to the doctor anyways. Worst part? As the doc is telling her this the nurse is serving her a meal consisting of a chicken breast, potatoes, a bun, and a creamy soup with crackers.

AND....at every meal she says "my stomach is too upset to have any meat. I'll just have some bread and the potatoes". This 74 year old is dying of ignorance because she lives in a world where diabetics should eat more grains and meat is "bad".

Her favourite defence when I say anything to her? "I'll be damned if I have to live my life without a single simple pleasure like ice cream. I don't care if I live ten less years. The ice cream is worth it." This Point goes to big pharma and the food industry I guess.

keith v

Mon, Dec-30-13, 14:52

so where ARE these healthy whole grains I keep hearing about?

I don't see any anywhere....

OregonRose

Mon, Dec-30-13, 20:50

AND....at every meal she says "my stomach is too upset to have any meat. I'll just have some bread and the potatoes". This 74 year old is dying of ignorance because she lives in a world where diabetics should eat more grains and meat is "bad".

This is so sad. This was my mom a few years ago (minus the insulin shots, but taking metformin and regularly clocking BG of over 300). She was in and out of the hospital, and all her ailments were "mysterious." A couple years ago, after seeing my sustained transformation, she started to eat more meat and less junk food. Today at 84 years old she's low-carb, gluten free, eating coconut oil (!), and she's off all her BS medications (to the astonishment of her doctor), her cholesterol is in a more normal range, and her BG readings are at 120 - 160 -- not ideal, but amazing considering the absence of meds). The best part is the improvements in her overall energy and mood. She's gone from being an extremely volatile and difficult person to being almost calm. :)

I wish your grandmother-in-law all the best and hope she finds health. In the meantime, I wish you and your family strength to deal with it all. :agree:

Turtle2003

Tue, Dec-31-13, 14:31

Her favourite defence when I say anything to her? "I'll be damned if I have to live my life without a single simple pleasure like ice cream. I don't care if I live ten less years. The ice cream is worth it." This Point goes to big pharma and the food industry I guess.

This kind of throws me. I'll admit that I fall off the wagon every so often and eat something I shouldn't, but I do keep trying, and most days I succeed. I just can't imagine why someone would think that eating ice cream and junk food is worth 10 years of life.

I think this is where the critics who mis-characterize low carb eating as flavorless and boring do a huge amount of harm. There are people who read their opinions and think that they could never settle for a distasteful and boring diet. They don't realize how wonderful low carb eating can be. I just had bacon and an omelet for lunch, and it was yummy. I don't feel deprived at all.

RuthannP

Tue, Dec-31-13, 15:34

Turtle, you might fall off of the wagon every once in a while but it will eventually STICK if you pick yourself up and keep going back to low carbing.

Whofan

Tue, Dec-31-13, 16:42

Yes, I know that type, 'oh, I'll just take a pill'.

I tried to reconnect with a childhood friend. We went out to dinner where she ordered pasta and finished off the bread basket. I was confused as I knew that she was Type 2 so I asked her how she could eat all those starchy carbs? Her answer: "I'll just inject myself so I can eat whatever I want".

So very sad.....I wanted to be able to stay in touch with her but my reaction to that was so incredulous that we both knew that it wouldn't happen. :(

I had a similar experience, Judy. I was getting to know a new friend who had already lost some toes yet he still drank prosecco and ate bread and sugary desserts. He told me quite firmly that he'd rather take medication and continue eating and drinking as he pleased. I would have liked to stay in touch but just couldn't watch an otherwise intelligent and interesting person destroy himself.

I got so excited reading the article and was going to print it for my diabetic boss who follows his doctor's word as though it was holy gospel and ignores my advice as though it's the ramblings of a fool. What a let down to find out it wasn't true.

Franziska

Tue, Dec-31-13, 17:33

I loved Dr. Feinman's article but realized it couldn't be true fairly early on.

I was slightly encouraged that low carbohydrate diets were listed as an option for diabetes management in the ADA position paper on dietary recommendations that came out in October. In fact, they discuss research on diets containing as few as 21 grams of carb per day. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2013/10/07/dc13-2042.full.pdf

However, I'm disappointed that the MNT section of the ADA's Standards of Medical Care for Diabetes for 2014 doesn't mention low-carbohydrate diets at all, although it does say that recommendations should be individualized: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/37/Supplement_1/S14.full?sid=412ee5f6-53a7-4923-919f-c1e7f71560cb.

I'm going to take "individualized" to mean I can recommend the amount of carbohydrate I think my patients and clients will do best with, which is very little :)

WereBear

Tue, Dec-31-13, 20:46

He told me quite firmly that he'd rather take medication and continue eating and drinking as he pleased.

They act like it's the same. Like it is the same outcome. Which is crazy and untrue!

I am reminded of someone who had a stroke; and didn't change their eating and exercising. Second stroke took much longer to recover from... with the third stroke he could barely say, "I wish I'd changed. I'm sorry now."

I don't know: do people lie there dying saying, "I regret nothing!"?

costello22

Wed, Jan-01-14, 07:45

I got so excited reading the article and was going to print it for my diabetic boss who follows his doctor's word as though it was holy gospel and ignores my advice as though it's the ramblings of a fool. What a let down to find out it wasn't true.

I actually posted it to facebook then had to delete when I read further. :(

costello22

Wed, Jan-01-14, 08:33

I don't know: do people lie there dying saying, "I regret nothing!"?

Maybe this will sound awful, but I have to say that if it were as simple as lopping 10 or 20 years off my life, I probably wouldn't change my diet. But it's not like I'd get a good healthy life then drop dead early. No, I'd be obese, probably massively so because I was rapidly gaining weight when I took up low carb. I wouldn't be able to move around easily. I wouldn't feel well. Then I'd begin to have the kinds of health problems that would force me to interact with doctors more than I want to. Then I'd become progressively more handicapped and more and more dependent on other people. I'd suffer and die a slow death. The sugar's not worth all that IMO.

I'm watching a couple of coworkers go this route. The ones I've talked to are in the I'll-eat-what-I-want-and-take-the-meds camp. I don't understand it.

Just recently we had a tragic murder in our town. A 67-year-old man shot and killed his 61-year-old wife, because he couldn't care for her anymore. He'd had a stroke himself, and neighbors describe him asking them for help in lifting his wife when she fell. I gather from articles that she was obese, diabetic, and wheel-chair bound. (http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2013/nov/10/couples-deteriorating-health-dwindling-home-condit/)

These are the things that keep me (mostly) on the straight and narrow. Not longer life, but quality of life.

WereBear

Wed, Jan-01-14, 09:40

These are the things that keep me (mostly) on the straight and narrow. Not longer life, but quality of life.

Indeed. The time I have left is like "after school." I raised children and went to college and worked and worked and worked. I always seemed to have several obligations going at once. At long last I have a situation where I have the time and support to have a big project of MY OWN (http://www.wayofcats.com).

I have books to write, videos to shoot, and podcasts to record. I have a passion and a calling.

I want to enjoy these years, not lose limbs, senses, and bladder control. Dr. Davis, of Wheatbelly, is particularly good at describing "wheat side effects." And my own family provides abundant proof of how much uncontrolled diabetes destroys your quality of life.

Franziska

Wed, Jan-01-14, 13:15

Completely agree that quality of life is far more important than longevity. That story about the man killing his wife because he couldn't care for her speaks volumes. There will always be things we can't control, but eating right and taking care of ourselves certainly improves the likelihood of aging well.

WereBear, I love your website! What a fantastic project. I'll definitely check out your podcast. Thanks from a fellow cat lover :)

Merpig

Wed, Jan-01-14, 16:40

This all makes me think of my grocery shopping just this afternoon. I was in the checkout line where the magazines are, and the title of one popped out at me: "Low Carb Cooking". It looked like a piece of lasagna on the cover and I wondered what they used in place of the regular noodles to make it low carb. So I picked it up to look and it was just regular wheat noodles! The recipe proudly trumpted that it had *only* 22g of carbs per serving (and the serving was tiny.

Up in the corner of the mag cover it was that the recipes were all approved by the ADA (or possibly some other diabetic group, but the word Diabetes definitely appeared in the "approved by" section, as that point I was putting it back on the stand and wiping my fingers after the contamination, :lol: But 22g per serving IS considered very low carb by ADA standards.

GlendaRC

Wed, Jan-01-14, 19:15

Nothing much changes does it? The ADA and the CDA and probably most other diabetes associations are NOT there to help diabetics, they are there to "help" diabetes! And it seems they do help to maintain the disease! But don't tell diabetics - let them think we're trying to help them.

tragedian

Wed, Jan-01-14, 20:22

I think that "Oh I'll just take a pill, this is how I WANT to eat" reaction is not something that is only being said to US, it's also being said to themselves. These foods, WE KNOW, can have a highly addictive nature, and that, coupled with the utter hopelessness that obesity and diabetes makes one feel, which we also know, can make people believe they can't change in a meaningful way. All I'm saying is, what these people are saying may be something other than what they're making it SOUND like they're saying. A lot of them probably tried to change, but the instructions given to them as to HOW, like the SAD, set them up for failure, and they probably internalized it.

"I WANT to be this way" is a lie they're telling themselves, so that they don't have to say "I tried to lose weight and I didn't because I'm addicted to carbohydrate because I'm a failure."

I feel like I didn't explain that well. Do you understand what I mean?

Bonnie OFS

Wed, Jan-01-14, 20:46

These foods, WE KNOW, can have a highly addictive nature, and that, coupled with the utter hopelessness that obesity and diabetes makes one feel, which we also know, can make people believe they can't change in a meaningful way.

That's where I was for so long - way too long. Sometimes I wanted to kill myself I was so depressed. But, by God's grace, someone gave me a book title: Diabetes Solution: The Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars by Dr. Bernstein. I checked it out of the library at least 3 times. I had some miscues - I'm a slow learner - but I finally got the hang of it. It works!

I really think the ADA doesn't want us to live normal, healthy lives. A friend showed me an advertisement for Diabetes Forecast, which featured 8 recipes from the magazine. Of the 8, only one was truly low-carb, albeit low-fat. Of the remaining 7, the carbs were as much as 48g for a single, tiny serving.

If I ate the way the ADA says I should, I'd be gaining weight, sick, and miserably unhappy. That's the way I used to be. No way am I going back!

tragedian

Wed, Jan-01-14, 21:05

Yes, that's what I mean; the ADA says "do this and you will be healthy and happy and thin", and they do it and OF COURSE it doesn't work, but then who do these people doubt? The ADA is the ADA, but on the other hand, these people probably engage in the binge eating that carbohydrate causes, but how do they know it's the food that is causing it and not their own failure as a person, when every organization they trust says those are the BEST foods and that you NEED them. "I want to change" becomes impossible to say when a person "knows" that it is themself that is fundamentally flawed and can't change. The whole point of LC is that our bodies aren't wrong and that, when we provide the best metabolic environment for optimal nutrition and weight loss, then we will get healthier and weight loss will happen. At least, that's just my opinion of LC.

WereBear

Thu, Jan-02-14, 07:06

Yes, that's what I mean; the ADA says "do this and you will be healthy and happy and thin", and they do it and OF COURSE it doesn't work, but then who do these people doubt?

I think your description of the "failure process" is exactly right. I see the look in their eyes, "I can't live without bread, so what's the point in trying?" I'm standing there saying it can be done, but there's only one of me. They can't see the millions who are successful.

It's certainly not the only point in history where Authorities were wrong, but it might not ever have been as easy to disprove them as it is now. And the ADA can't hold back the many people who are determined to take back their health, and successfully do so.

Because NOW, when I discuss carbohydrate restriction with diabetics, they hide behind "my doctor" and "my nutritionist" instead of scoffing at low carb. Maybe they are willing to "die for ice cream" but it's harder to pretend there isn't another way.

Whofan

Thu, Jan-02-14, 13:21

Because NOW, when I discuss carbohydrate restriction with diabetics, they hide behind "my doctor" and "my nutritionist" instead of scoffing at low carb. .

You just described several conversations I had with my diabetic boss before I gave up. He has never said a word against low carb - but that's because he wants desperately to lose weight and literally watched me shrink to a size 6 right in front of his eyes over the course of a few months. But he refutes whatever I say because his doctor and his nutritionist have told him to eat oatmeal and fruit and "anything you like as long as it is in moderation" - God help us! They sure as hell didn't tell him to eat the 4 donuts my co-worker saw in his hand recently. Moderation isn't possible for carb addicts! Makes me want to tear my hair out.

MandalayVA

Thu, Jan-02-14, 14:34

Just think--what would happen if all diabetics could cure themselves through diet?

A WHOLE hell of a lot of people would be out of jobs.

Cleome

Thu, Jan-02-14, 16:46

The Cure for Diabetes

What if the American Heart Association endorsed the trans-fat diet? Problem, right? Look at what the American Diabetes Association is spoon-feeding people with diabetes: sugar. Not to worry: We've got the solution right here

It's a wonder no one has tried to have Mary Vernon's medical license revoked.

Since 1999, the 52-year-old family doctor has been treating diabetic patients in Lawrence, Kansas, with an approach that was abandoned by most physicians in the 1930s. Worse, this Depression-era remedy is the opposite of the current guidelines established by the American Diabetes Association, a nonprofit organization that spent nearly $51 million on research in 2005, and so should know a thing or two about how to handle diabetes.

There's no question that Dr. Vernon is trouble -- but for whom? Not her patients, that's for certain. They just won't stay sick. People walk into her office afflicted with type-2 diabetes and, by every objective medical measurement, walk out cured. There's $51 million that says that isn't supposed to happen, not in a clinic in Kansas, and definitely not as a result of cleaning out the refrigerator.

"My first line of treatment is to have patients remove carbohydrates from their diets," explains Dr. Vernon, a petite, energetic mother of two who also serves as the president of the American Society of Bariatric Physicians. "This is often all it takes to reverse their symptoms, so that they no longer require medication."

That's it?

That's it -- a simple strategy, but one that's controversial. If Dr. Vernon and a growing cadre of researchers are correct about carbohydrates, we may be looking at an epic case of ignorance on the part of the medical community. That, however, pales next to the implications for the American Diabetes Association, namely that the very organization dedicated to conquering diabetes is rejecting what could be the closest thing we have to a cure...
By Adam Campbell, Men's Health, November 03, 2006 (http://www.menshealth.com/health/cure-diabetes)

WereBear

Thu, Jan-02-14, 20:42

the very organization dedicated to conquering diabetes is rejecting what could be the closest thing we have to a cure...

Sad to say, that is exactly what they are doing.

Remember the pink ribbons and "Race for the Cure"? The Susan G. Komen Foundation spends 15% of what it rakes in on research. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/08/us-usa-healthcare-komen-research-idUSTRE8171KW20120208) Turns out, the people running it get very large salaries, too.

I avoid that pink ribbon now.

GlendaRC

Fri, Jan-03-14, 01:03

I know that here in Canada, the CDA doesn't recommend an Atkins-type diet for diabetes. Their line is that they "know it works, but it's too hard and people can't stick to it!" Sheesh, why don't they at least let people know it's the best option?

Whofan

Fri, Jan-03-14, 05:23

Exactly! Give people the information! They might be surprised how many people will try it and succeed. For those that do find it too hard, fair enough. At least they had the option.

DeannaK

Fri, Jan-03-14, 05:40

How is this WOE hard?? There are lots of foods to choose from and if you do get bored, a little ingenuity will go a really long way. It is all perspective and commitment.

This is one of my favorite topics. I dated this guy a few years ago and he said to me that he believed that there are already cures for cancer, diabetes and a whole host of other debilitating diseases, BUT we will never know of them...too much to lose for Big Pharma, Research, Insurance...and really the list could go on as they are ALL sleeping together.

I always thought this was a very interesting point.

bworthey

Fri, Jan-03-14, 13:52

Since being diagnosed as type 2 and finding out my dad is as well, changing eating, taking meds, etc - I've come to the conclusion that all the whole grains stuff is just a racket. Just as many carbs or more in things, so how is it healthier?! And I'm sorry - how do we know it's healthier just because some govt agency tells me oh look you can see more of the grain. It may really be better because it's less processed, I just question everything.

I've been following Atkins pretty closely, my dad has been eating lower carb and probably following what the ADA recommends of 45-60 carbs per meal, he is on metformin, and has seen his BG group pretty quickly, plus he's dropped some weight. Though he didn't have much to lose. I think the next conversation for both of us is when can we start backing off the meds to see how our BG is going to do without the med and just being managed by the carb intake!

Bonnie OFS

Fri, Jan-03-14, 15:15

Hi Bworthey -

I noticed that you are "working up to 2000mg" of metformin from 500mg. You might want to rethink that, or else increase very slowly. I used to take 2000mg & had chronic diarrhea. No one, not even the doctors I asked, connected the diarrhea with the metformin. It was several years before a casual conversation with another diabetic showed me the connection. I'm now taking 1000mg and doing MUCH better.

Of course, you may be one of the lucky people who doesn't get diarrhea.

Have you read any of Dr. Bernstein's books? It was the informaion in his books that convinced me to try low-carb.

costello22

Fri, Jan-03-14, 15:27

How is this WOE hard??

I still find it somewhat hard, and I've been doing it for years. It's certainly inconvenient.

bworthey

Fri, Jan-03-14, 20:00

Hi Bworthey -

I noticed that you are "working up to 2000mg" of metformin.

I have made it up to the 2000 mg, but I have had some rounds of diarrhea. My doc has said this is one of the most common side effects - he mentioned dropping it down and adding a different med in and I declined that just because I didn't want to deal with another med/another set of side effects. Things have settled down a bit - it's manageable I guess you could say. I appreciate the concern though! And I'm following low carb plan now and it's working well for me!

Thanks!

aamama

Fri, Jan-03-14, 23:39

I still find it somewhat hard, and I've been doing it for years. It's certainly inconvenient.

Agree with you 100% costello22. I'm entering my third year LCing and I still find it hard at times. Months can go by and I feel strong and in control. Then something stressful triggers a binge and I spend weeks getting back on track.

Honestly, I think for anyone who was (at any time in their lives) an emotional eater, this WOE will regularly test you. At least it's that way for me. Even though I logically know how great LC is for me, how much healthier I feel while following it, how much happier I am in a smaller clothing size, my inner food addict can throw me under the bus and convince me that the carbage is worth it. That inner fat girl says "it will be so good. Sure it will throw you off for a few days. You'll get back on track. You can go back to clean eating tomorrow." And tomorrow becomes 7, 10, 20 days. And I'm three years in. I thought it would get easier. At times it is. Other times I'm just as weak as I was on day 1.

Plus, it's hard to go to your old favourite restaurant and watch everyone else wolf down that pasta dish you used to love while you have a steak and a salad. Your meal is still yummy. But you have an emotional connection to that stupid pasta. It's less convenient to haul salads to work everyday. It sucks when you go to your sons hockey game, have your car not start afterwards, and are stuck at the rink at dinner with a couple hungry kids, and they only serve two meals at the concession: burger and fries or chicken fingers and fries. So you order the burger and have to fight the inner fat girl off so she doesn't take one single fry and force it down your throat before you have time to dump the fries and burger bun in the trash. Daily battles. At least for me.

Bonnie OFS

Sat, Jan-04-14, 10:02

Honestly, I think for anyone who was (at any time in their lives) an emotional eater, this WOE will regularly test you.

That's why I started attending OA meetings. At first I thought just a month or two of "hand holding" would be enough, but I found out I really need the meetings. Being diabetic, a carb addict, and an emotional overeater, I found that OA helps me on all levels.

I'm going to be away from home for the next 3 days. I know from experience how hard it is to eat right while on the road, so I'm packing food this time. At least this is a car trip - much easier to have meals in the cooler than when flying.

rightnow

Sat, Jan-04-14, 15:03

My parents said at Christmas that for the new year, they are going to make a new, huge, concerted effort to improve their eating.

They have been eating mostly according to my stepmother's ADA obsession the last 15 years, which is only one part of why my father is gradually dying off, one surgery and skin cancer and now chronic pain at a time. I regularly work on letting the emotion go for that. It is their lives, not mine.

The only bright side of her plan is that its caloric limits mean the quantities have a cap. So dad's hungry all the time. Until the next meal including margarine and bread rolls but very carefully not more than 1 egg a week. but I can't help muttering

He says to me, "Our eating is not really bad. We're very careful about what we eat. It's just that we eat far too much. I eat more than one portion size a lot. That's why I still have this belly."

It's not much at all. He's 73 years old.

"You eat because you're hungry, like every other animal on earth," I say to him. "And of course you're hungry when you are so low in animal fats and proteins. Here's a test: if you eat, and you're still hungry, then either you didn't eat enough, or if you're sure it ought to be enough, then you didn't eat the right thing. I assure you, a few ounces of buttered steak and eggs would not leave you hungry the way whatever you're eating does."

He looks almost mournful at the very idea of buttered steak and eggs, which he'll never get.

The man was ridiculously healthy most of his life, mostly from living on the results of hunting and home cooked foods. It started going downhill during his third wife, the most health-conscious one in the 70s, my age 9 and up, whose home-cooked meals were fried-chicken or chicken-friend steak in canola oil with potatoes and corn and thick gravy and rolls. This 'healthy' food seemed to make me a carb addict though I had to be nearly dead and the size of a walrus before I realized that. His health was probably improved by the dinner warzone dysfunction with wife #4, who wasn't much of a cook anyway, so loss of appetite was no tragedy. Wife #5 was pre-paranoid about diabetes and worshipped the ADA guidelines, hence his current mess.

Eating to ADA guidelines, she eventually got closer and then finally was diagnosed as diabetic. I tried to point out the logical fallacy in this sequence once but she completely missed it.

Can't leave this post without the NMS's awesome image. All those quotes were taken from the ADA website at the time they made this ad.

PJ

http://www.nmsociety.org/docs/FunFacts/ADA%20Carbs%20to%20diabetics%20handout.jpg

WereBear

Sat, Jan-04-14, 15:22

So you order the burger and have to fight the inner fat girl off so she doesn't take one single fry and force it down your throat before you have time to dump the fries and burger bun in the trash. Daily battles. At least for me.

I'll tell you what fixed it for me (former binger & emotional eater.) I took it off the table.

Literally. It took me a while to realize I was reacting to gluten because I didn't have gastrointestinal upsets. Instead I had a painless puffing out of my stomach; somewhat undetectable, pre-low-carb, when every meal had gluten.

When success with low carb let me wear tight jeans, it got brought to my attention! I went gluten free for a month, as a test. And I was totally astonished when my arthritic thumbs improved in an amazing way. Before, they were waking me up from the pain. It has been a steady improvement since.

This meant "cheating" -- the breakroom, the dinner party, the shopping trip with friends -- was not possible. I had to be gluten free, or I would lose my living, made with the computer keyboard.

Once these things were no longer possible; they stopped tempting me. They really did.

Because I had decided to give them up. See, if you keep holding out the possibility, if you give them emotional power and still tell yourself you miss them... they are going to tempt you.

If you decide these things will never again have power over you... they won't.

Liz53

Sat, Jan-04-14, 15:33

What a great poster, PJ. Hadn't seen that before.

DeannaK

Sat, Jan-04-14, 16:21

Yes...I agree that is an awesome ad, PJ. Wish more people would see it and think it through. In addition, if the books available and the wisdom contained within were touted more than the SAD, I truly believe we would not be in the sad (FAT) state we're in.

As far as inconvenient....it is only as "inconvenient" as you make it. If you commit to the fact that carbs not only make you fat, but the long term effects could possibly, in the worst possible case, kill you, then it makes it just a tad easier to beat the inner "fat chick" into submission.

My mom always says when I have a huge issue, project, problem to tackle..."How do you eat an elephant"? The answer is "one bite at a time".

In trying to change our emotional eating, our inner "fat chick" and all the bad habits that have brought us to this place, it is literally one bite at a time....we make that choice at each point.

This is only my 2 cents and only one way I have tried myself to wrap my head around this mess I have created. I control it and I own it...I have to!

Deanna

Whofan

Sat, Jan-04-14, 16:48

Even though I logically know how great LC is for me, how much healthier I feel while following it, how much happier I am in a smaller clothing size, my inner food addict can throw me under the bus and convince me that the carbage is worth it. That inner fat girl says "it will be so good. Sure it will throw you off for a few days. You'll get back on track. You can go back to clean eating tomorrow." And tomorrow becomes 7, 10, 20 days. And I'm three years in. I thought it would get easier. At times it is. Other times I'm just as weak as I was on day 1.
F

Clearly, concisely, perfectly said. This April I'll be 4 years in. The inner fat girl voice that tells me I'll get back on track tomorrow usually tells the truth: if I don't indulge more than a glass or two or a bite or two I do get back tomorrow. But she has lied to me too: the 7, 10, and 20 day lie. Eating delicious low carb foods is not hard. Not eating society's high carb drugs for the rest of your life IS hard. It's worth the struggle to me, but I can see why so many people cave and why others will look for every excuse under the sun not to even try. All I ask is that the diabetes societies take ONE of those excuses away from them and tell them not to eat f***ing carbohydrates!