Where is the pure fat???

[ketogenium]

Dear Low Carb community!

We all know that 'fat bashing' our society subscribed to for over 40 years, is the main argument "lipid hypothesis"-apologetics use to address the current obesity and diabetes epidemic. We eat way too much fat they say. We need to cut our fat, they say. We need to eat more carbohydrates, they say.

Now, I did my research on most popular foods in the US to find out how much fat and what fat we really eat. And here are my findings.

MOST CONSUMED FOODS IN THE U.S.

*all percentages represent the composition of foods

10. Dairy Desserts (ice cream, frozen yogurt, milkshakes, pudding)
Chocolate Pudding: 23% carbohydrates, 4,5% fat, 2% protein
Milkshake: 18% carbohydrates, 3% fat, 3% protein
Plain Yoghurt: 7,5% carbohydrates, 0,2% fat, 6% protein

9. Beef
Lean Beef: 0% carbohydrates, 4% fat, 30% protein
Standard beef: 0,5% carbohydrates, 20% fat, 20% protein

8. Pasta
Spaghetti: 30% carbohydrates, 0,9% fat, 6% protein
Chinese Asian Noodles: 28% carbohydrates, 1% fat, 6% protein
Average pasta: 26% carbohydrates, 3,5% fat, 5% protein

7. Tortillas, burritos and tacos
Tortillas: 51% carbohydrates, 8% fat, 8% protein
Bean Burritos: 28% carbohydrates, 5,5% fat, 6,5% protein
Tacos: 20% carbohydrates, 7% fat, 7,5% protein

6. Pizza
Italian Pizza Salami: 16% carbohydrates, 12% fat, 10% protein
Regular Fast Food Pizza: 33% carbohydrates, 9,5% fat, 12% protein

5. Alcohol
Beer: 3% carbohydrates, 0% fat, 0,4% protein
Dry Red Wine: 2,4% carbohydrates, 0% fat, 0,2% protein

4. Soft drinks, energy drinks, sports drinks
Cola: 12% carbohydrates, 0% fat, 0% protein
Energy drink: 11% carbohydrates, 0,1% fat, 0,2% protein

3. Chicken
Fried breaded chicken: 12% carbohydrates 17% fat 21% protein
Chicken Nuggets: 17% carbohydrate, 18% fat, 15% protein

2. Bread
White wheat bread: 50% carbohydrate, 3% fat, 7,5% protein
Whole grain wheat bread: 41% carbohydrate, 3% fat, 13% protein
Multi-Grain bread: 47% carbohydrate, 4,5% fat, 14,5% protein

1. Grain based desserts (donuts, cake, pie, rolls, pastries)
Donuts: 51% carbohydrates 19% fat, 6% protein
Cupcakes: 67% carbohydrate, 4% fat, 4% protein
Puff Pastry: 45% carbohydrates, 38% fat, 7% protein

FAST FOOD
Burgers: 22% carbohydrates, 16% fat, 11% protein
French fries: 39% carbohydrates, 16% fat, 4% protein
Hot Dogs (Frankfurter): 4,6% carbohydrates, 30% fat, 11% protein
Fish & Chips: 57% carbohydrates, 37% fat, 6% protein

SOURCES:
- U.S. Department of Agriculture and U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
- Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2010. 7th Edition, Washington, DC, U.S. Government Printing Office, December 2010.
- http://nutritiondata.self.com/Maybe it's just me, but I have to ask - where is all the High Fat Food LH-apologetics are talking about? Most of listed foods are High Carb with a very moderate amount of fat.

And most important - where are foods made of more or less good natural fat but WITHOUT refined carbohydrates?? It is utterly clear from the data that absolutely no fat-rich food comes without refined carbs - which is a combination never found in nature! Natural fat foods are always low-carb, and carb loaded foods are naturally low fat. But not here...

Can it be... Can it be, dear LC Community, that epidemiological and observational studies which find strong correlations between FAT and obesity/diabetes/heart disease/cancer, only show such findings because fat always comes along with refined carbohydrates? We don't even speak of hydrogenated oils and trans-fats...

And again, here are Controlled Clinical Trials which has proven negative effects of fat intake increase along with 20-45% of refined carbohydrates:

Rebecca L Adochio: Early responses of insulin signaling to high-carbohydrate and high-fat overfeeding. © 2009 Adochio et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.

B. A. Swinburn: Deterioration in Carbohydrate Metabolism and Lipoprotein Changes Induced by Modern, High Fat Diet in Pima Indians and Caucasians. Clinical Diabetes and Nutrition Section, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, National Institutes of Health Phoenix, Arizona 85016

Stephen J. Nicholls, MBBS, PhD: Consumption of Saturated Fat Impairs the Anti-Inflammatory Properties of High-Density Lipoproteins and Endothelial Function. J Am Coll Cardiol. 2006;48(4):715-720

Lourdes M Varela, Almudena Ortega, Beatriz Bermudez, Sergio Lopez: A high-fat meal promotes lipid-load and apolipoprotein B-48 receptor transcriptional activity in circulating monocytes. AJCN. First published ahead of print March 2, 2011

G Schonfeld, W Patsch, L L Rudel: Effects of Dietary Cholesterol and Fatty Acids on Plasma Lipoproteins. J Clin Invest. 1982;69(5):1072–1080.

C. Lawrence Kien: Increasing dietary palmitic acid decreases fat oxidation and daily energy expenditure. © 2005 American Society for Clinical Nutrition
The last one, by Kien et al., literally blew my mind.
...the composition of this solid-food diet was as follows: 14.6% of energy as protein, 45.1% of energy as carbohydrate, and 40.8% of energy as fat.... For comparison, a post hoc analysis of the dietary histories obtained from most of the participants for the period preceding the run-in diet indicated the following composition of the habitual diet: 18.0% of energy as protein, 49.6% of energy as carbohydrate, and 33.0% of energy as fatAnd guess what - they blamed FAT for all the negative effects! It's only fat, yes, refined carbohydrates oozing from every bit of their diet have nothing to do with it, right... :daze:

My hypothesis about all this is; FAT is blamed only because no one wants to blame the real culprit - refined carbohydrates. They are the "holy cow" of Food Industry and Pharma Industry, and are beyond any criticism.

That's it.


ketogenium

[s-piper]

Yeah, I like how all the high-fat foods that you're likely to see stock pictures of in any mainstream media article on obesity or diets, like pizza, burger+fries, and doughtnuts, are actually mostly carbohydrates even if they are also high in fat.

I was once talking to someone who was saying how it's better to eat a small amount of a regular food than binge on a diet food. Well I was with him until he said "drink one full-fat coke instead of 12 diet cokes"
I kid you not, full-fat coke!
Do people actually think there's fat in soda? Is Coca-Cola selling hot buttered rum now?
It shows the willingness to not accept that carbs may be bad for you.
Everyone acknowledges that soda is fattening and bad for your health, but what they don't acknowedge is that all of the calories in soda come from sugar. Besides coloring and preservatives, it has nothing else!

[ketogenium]

And finally here is a summary of the failings of LIPID HYPOTHESIS:

1). The evidence pro LH is purely epidemiological, based on statistical and observational studies.

2). Epidemiological studies almost exclusively operate with "relative risk", which is meaningless on its own without the actual event rate - which is pretty unimpressive in most cases.

3). There is not a single controlled clinical trial which proved direct causation between saturated fat, cholesterol and CHD, cancer obesity and diabetes - without any intervention of modern refined carbohydrates.

4). There are no sound endocrinological explanations how exactly and why saturated fat & cholesterol would cause CHD, cancer obesity and diabetes.

5). Negative effects of natural fat can be observed only in combination with consumption of refined carbohydrates. Clinical trials based on a Ketogenic diet /Low Carb High Fat diet show exactly opposite effects of High Fat diets.

To sum it up, foods that are 1). High Fat High Carb at the same time, 2). refined carbohydrates and 3). foods with unnatural fiber-carb-ratio are making us fat. All these things are not found in pre-industrial diets of humankind.

[Sagehill]

Ummm, no offense, but how is this a war-zone item??

We all agree with you! :p

[Elfie]

This is what I have been telling people for years. It's not fat that's the problem. It's fat combined with high carb. It's amazing to me how close minded the medical and nutrition community is on this topic. Unfortunately for them, the internet is full of information showing the truth so it's becoming harder and harder for them to convince people they're absolutely right.

.

[Mistizoom]

I love fat, I eat 65-75% of calories from fat a day. I totally agree that carbs are the problem not fat. However I think the percentages you cite are based on percent of food by weight rather than pecent of calories? Cause I certainly hope the beef I eat is moret than 4% of calories from fat!

[M Levac]

Ketogenium, your %'s in the first post, do they represent calories or mass?

I suggest you make a post in your journal with all your "insight" posts so we can find them all in one neat place. I mean, you've been contributing quite a bit in so few posts, with source references and everything.

[M Levac]

Hehe, I forgot to say what I wanted to say. Your findings reflect my own, Ketogenium, so of course I agree. I even say that when somebody says "high-fat", they usually mean much lower fat than I would. High-fat for me is in the 75-90%/kcal range. But when they say it, it's in the 40-50%/kcal range. To them, the range is from 0 to 50. To me, it's from 0 to 100%.

[2bthinner!]

Even our butter has "natural flavorings" added. What, pray tell, are they? Is it a spice? Probably MSG. So, I use this..

Kerrygold... (c: Unsalted.
http://kerrygoldusa.com/

[2bthinner!]

Hehe, I forgot to say what I wanted to say. Your findings reflect my own, Ketogenium, so of course I agree. I even say that when somebody says "high-fat", they usually mean much lower fat than I would. High-fat for me is in the 75-90%/kcal range. But when they say it, it's in the 40-50%/kcal range. To them, the range is from 0 to 50. To me, it's from 0 to 100%.

Me too. My message was too short, so I had to add to the sentence to quote you >j<

[leemack]

Even our butter has "natural flavorings" added. What, pray tell, are they? Is it a spice? Probably MSG. So, I use this..

Kerrygold... (c: Unsalted.
http://kerrygoldusa.com/

Why on earth would real butter need flavourings?? The only reason to add to butter is to make garlic butter, or spiced butter for steak etc etc.

[Verbena]

I checked into this some years ago when I first noticed the label on the butter I was buying. I called our local dairy and asked why their unsalted butter had flavoring, though the salted variety did not. If I remember correctly it was simply a matter of making it "more buttery", and the customer "expected" it. Salted butter tastes of salt, and therefore doesn't need the extra flavor. I did a bit of research into the additive - diacetyl - and found that it is, indeed, natural, and is already a part of butter, among other things. But, in greater quantities, it is not a substance I wish to consume - http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/Research/HazardousChem/FoodFlavor/. - I buy organic butter now. Trader Joe's regular, non-organic butter does not (did not, last I looked) contain this additive, for those whose budget doesn't extend to organic.
Another common additive - annatto - is not problematic for me. It is merely a coloring obtained from a seed used often in Central and South American cooking (achiote is another name) Coloring might not really be necessary, but it doesn't disturb me greatly that it is there.

[Bob-a-rama]

Natural flavorings can be anything natural, including cat urine or roach droppings if they want to add that. You think I'm kidding? Google Castoreum, a Natural Flavoring that comes from the anal sacs of the North American Beaver - you find it in lots of foods, especially ones with vanilla or strawberry flavoring in it. You've probably eaten a lot of it. As long as it's natural, it can be a natural flavoring, and they don't have to list it as anything but a natural flavoring.

Kerrygold butter is great - milk and cream from grass fed cows just tastes better. And since it is made in Europe, they are not allowed to use Genetically Modified Hormones in the cows - which 64 countries have banned because of strong evidence that they cause disease. If I can't get Kerrygold, I'll get organic.

------

Why don't they blame the carbs? It's simple. Big Agra.

TV, Radio, Newspapers, and Magazines are advertising media, disguised as entertainment and information media. Even the news is an advertisement in disguise. The reporters call themselves presstitutes because they report what management tells them to report, slant the story the way management tells them to slant the story, and management tells them what is good for advertisers and the parent corporation, not what is good for you.

AMD, Monsanto, General Mills, General Foods, Nestle, and the entire corporate agriculture and food processing industry has the dollars to tell the media what to print. So even though sugar is the culprit, they will tell you it's fat, because AMD, Monsanto, Dupont, and the big corporate farms make more money if you buy their products.

And profit is the name of the game.

Anybody who actually thinks the News is real is mistaken. Anyone who thinks the news, entertainment shows and everything else in the corporate media is anything but an advertisement is mistaken.

There was a time when we had freedom of the press in the USA, but those days are long gone. When we had freedom of the press, there were laws that let one corporation or individual own only a handful of Radio stations, a couple of TV stations and a couple of Newspapers. Now 90% of the media in the USA is owned by 6 corporations. You get big corporate viewpoints on everything.

This is not a rant, nor intended to be a political post, take that elsewhere. But knowing the facts can help you make decisions about what you eat, and understand why the mass media says what it says.

It's a shame, but you really have to be careful with what you eat.

Bobby

[Verbena]

Kerrygold butter is great - milk and cream from grass fed cows just tastes better. And since it is made in Europe, they are not allowed to use Genetically Modified Hormones in the cows - which 64 countries have banned because of strong evidence that they cause disease.

Bobby, I have no doubt that Kerrygold is wonderful, though the price is a little steep for me. But I do have a (rhetorical, maybe) question. Not really expecting an answer, unless someone just happens to know. I have lived in Ireland - there is wonderful grazing land there, and all the stories about how green it is are quite true. I remember the milk was delicious (and I have never been much of a milk drinker). However - and here's my question - Ireland is a really small country, and even if all of it were used to pasture milk cows (which, of course, it isn't) HOW is it possible that all of the Kerrygold butter sold all over the US to discerning customers can come from pastured cows in the green fields of Ireland? Never mind the green fields of County Kerry; I'm quite ready to believe that a certain license has been taken with the name. Maybe it doesn't all come from Ireland? Or maybe it isn't really all from pastured cows? Whatever the case may be - and I truly have no idea, as I've not looked into it at all - I think I will settle for organic, American butter.

[Bob-a-rama]

Good point.

All Idaho potatoes don't come from Idaho - some come from neighboring states.

As long as it comes from Europe, there are no rGBH GMO hormones in the cows so I'm OK with that. I don't like being Monsanto's lab rat.

And it tastes great.

That's enough for me.

But you have me wondering. I couldn't find anything on the web that says it's not. Still, that's a lot of cows to feed the world.

BTW, I like the cheese too.

As far as affording it. We all have our priorities.

I have a 4 cylinder vehicle, and by driving it sensibly I can get 100 extra miles per tankful more than the EPA rates the mileage - at today's prices, that's a lot of butter. I don't use the Air Conditioner, that's hundreds of dollars per month. I grew up in Florida without it, and don't see a need for it now. I mow my own lawn. And the list goes on.

I'm not saying what I do is right for everyone, but two of my main priorities are health and taste.

Bob

[Verbena]

two of my main priorities are health and taste

Mine as well. However, where I can make compromises that don't substantially effect the final result, I do. I like butter, but I don't eat it plain. (Now, slathered on a piece of really good bread, or a plate of pasta .... but I don't do that anymore) So spending big bucks for an exceptional fat to fry my eggs in makes little sense to me when organic butter does the job quite well - and organic, by definition, excludes the use of GMOs and added hormones. I use the bit of money saved for non-GMO feed for my chickens, which makes the eggs fried in that butter better tasting, and better for me (IMO). I also try to consider the carbon footprint involved in shipping my food thousands of miles. However, we all have different priorities, and mine are mine alone, and are what work for me.

[Bob-a-rama]

Ah, the carbon footprint. I'm with you on that one.

I don't run the AC. ... I don't burn lights that don't need to be on and I use those energy saving bulbs. ... My 4 cylinder vehicle gets 5 miles per gallon better than it's EPA ratings which equals 100 extra miles per tank - all because of slow acceleration, and anticipated braking. ... I planted over a dozen trees on the half-acre lot that I live on (native - no irrigation needed). ... I painted my roof white to reflect the solar heat out of the atmosphere. ... We do dishes by hand instead of the energy intensive dishwasher, ... I use the "gray water" from the clothes washer to irrigate plants ... we do not wear jewelry, I've seen the result of gold mining ... we refuse - reuse - and recycle ... we hang most of our clothes out on the line instead of using the dryer and so on

Plus I bought the vehicle in 2001 (2002 model) and therefore are not using the energy to create a new vehicle every few years. Due to the way I drive, it still hasn't burned a quart of oil between changes and I'm only on my second set or brakes and third set of tires. Quite a lot of carbon saved there.

I'm an environmentalist at heart. It's not about saving the earth, it's about saving part the planet for my grandchildren and their children. It makes me feel good about myself to do that.

But I will not eat US dairy products unless they are organic. So shipping them from Europe is something that will happen unless we can tame the Monsanto beast.

I boycott all GMO foods. I don't want to be the corporate lab rat. They might be just fine (though I doubt it) but I'm not going to be the test case.

So I figure the Kerry Gold butter and cheese plus the Jarlsberg are little luxuries that I more than compensate for with my reduction of my own carbon footprint.

We all have our individual priorities. Mine work for me.

Bob

BTW, I read that if everyone painted their roof white, it would do more good for global warming than if everyone bought a hybrid vehicle.

[M Levac]

Natural flavorings can be anything natural, including cat urine or roach droppings if they want to add that. You think I'm kidding? Google Castoreum, a Natural Flavoring that comes from the anal sacs of the North American Beaver - you find it in lots of foods, especially ones with vanilla or strawberry flavoring in it.
Gives new meaning to "tastes like s***". :)

[Ms Arielle]

Now I want a dairy goat and a dairy cow!!! BUtter, yum.

Atkins also listed informatin gathered by the american government; they actually know that we have been eating less fat for a number years yet the obesity rate continues to increase. Well, what did the fat calories get replaced with -- CARBOHYDRATES!!

You would be appall if you saw what children eat for snacks at school-- even the school snack is high fat and all carb. The kids skip and toss the cheese stick. Suck down the juice instead of milk. Rarely any whole fruit. Shameful that all the schools are substidized by the US governement and have to therefoare follow there recommendations for food. ARGGG!



We are all here because we prove that fat doesn't make us fat!!

[Bob-a-rama]

And not to mention soft drinks sweetened with high-fructose, round-up laced, GMO corn sweetener - in 20oz bottles.

I'm thoroughly convinced LC is a healthier diet - at least for me. I would suspect it would be for most people.

Bob

[ketogenium]

Ketogenium, your %'s in the first post, do they represent calories or mass?
It's mass. My goal was to show how much fat these foods contain in the first place.
I suggest you make a post in your journal with all your "insight" posts so we can find them all in one neat place.
Uhm... I have to admit I still have some trouble with all the applications of that forum. I'd be happy if someone would give me a tip how to get my threads and posts all in one somewhere.

[peacelove]

Now that we are on the subject. .... what about chicken? is it better to eat grass fed beef and just fish?

honestly, I have been eating more chicken lately and feel different.

It might be the hormones or something, but I am not the same with chicken then when I eat just fish.

anyone else experience this or is it in my head?:)

[Elizellen]

I'd be happy if someone would give me a tip how to get my threads and posts all in one somewhere.

The simplest way I can think of would be to click on your name at the top of any of your posts and select the "find all posts by ketogenium" option.
You will then see a list of all your posts here.

Then it is a case of opening a note-taking or writing programme like "notes" or "word" etc and then clicking on each post listed in the search results then copy/pasting them into one page in that programme in turn - perhaps start at the end of the list (which would be the earliest ones) and work backwards to keep them in date order.
Maybe make a separate paragraph for each thread you started and paste each post's content into the relevant paragraph if you have more than one post you want to keep for reference in that thread.

Then you could start a journal (this thread tells you how to do that)
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=172775
and then paste the lot into one post in your journal, or paste each threadsworth one at a time to keep them as separate posts for clarity

Will be laborious but I cannot see a simpler way to do it. Luckily you do not have so many posts yet to make it a herculean task!!

[WereBear]

two of my main priorities are health and taste.

Bob

Us too.

Local, range fed chicken and eggs, frozen, grassfed, hamburgers, ground buffalo; these are becoming our new staples. It's a nice intersection between price and quality.

What good is it when I cook a chicken meal with supermarket chicken, and it tastes like dirt? Then I just throw it out? That's not saving any money.