5-HTP, WEAKNESS, LARRY

[Denny Hart]

This post is for Larry Hover and anyone else

I have avoidant personality disorder. Most people want to put
me on an SSRI, but I do not want this. I tried to go the
natural route, but found something very strange. I tired
liquid serotonin a few times, and suffered from something
like a low blood sugar reaction for a half a day. I felt weak
and sickly.

I also tried 50 mg of 5-HTP another time and had the same
result (but for less longer). Do you know why someone would
have this reaction, or at least some theory behind why someone
would have this reaction. Could it just be that I do not need
serotonin? A guess is fine.

Denny

[Gaines Not]

"Denny Hart" <denny_hart@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:80228655.0205181435.36fc6829@posting.google.com...

> something very strange. I tired liquid serotonin a few
> times, and suffered from something like a low blood sugar
> reaction for a half a day. I felt weak and sickly.
>
> I also tried 50 mg of 5-HTP another time and had the same
> result (but for less longer). Do you know why someone would
> have this reaction, or at least some theory behind why
> someone would have this reaction. Could it just be that I do
> not need serotonin? A guess

50mg of 5-htp did absolutely nothing. I think you would have
same reaction taking a placebo.

You can find help here
http://www.uib.no/med/avd/med_a/gastro/wilhelms/whiteley.html

GN

[Lawrence F]

In article
<JLCF8.15922$bt.2279284830@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, Gaines
Not <fen@phen.com> wrote:
>
>50mg of 5-htp did absolutely nothing. I think you would have
>same reaction taking a placebo.

It doesn't effect some people that way. But the reaction
mentioned is quite common. I personally find it nauseating and
spacyness inducing in anything more than a few milligrams.
--
Be a counter terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts
of kindness Rave: Immanentization of the Eschaton in a
Temporary Autonomous Zone. I'm looking for computer
hardware donations for charities, E-mail me. Available
for contracting
http://www.farviolet.com/~entropy/resume.txt

[Hua Kul]

denny_hart@yahoo.com (Denny Hart) wrote in message
news:<80228655.0205181435.36fc6829@posting.google.com>...
> This post is for Larry Hover and anyone else
>
> I have avoidant personality disorder. Most people want to
> put me on an SSRI, but I do not want this. I tried to go
> the natural route, but found something very strange. I
> tired liquid serotonin a few times, and suffered from
> something like a low blood sugar reaction for a half a day.
> I felt weak and sickly.
>
> I also tried 50 mg of 5-HTP another time and had the same
> result (but for less longer). Do you know why someone would
> have this reaction, or at least some theory behind why
> someone would have this reaction. Could it just be that I do
> not need serotonin? A guess is fine.
>
> Denny

This may be the source of your hypoglycemic reaction: "5-HT
elicited marked increases in insulin secretion from normal
pancreas..." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cm-
d=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11460094&dopt=Abstract

1: Neuroendocrinol Lett 1999;20(5):315-322 Books, LinkOut
Distribution of serotonin and its effect on insulin and
glucagon secretion in normal and diabetic pancreatic
tissues in rat. Adeghate E, Ponery AS, Pallot D, Parvez SH,
Singh J. Department of Human Anatomy, Faculty of Medicine
and Health Sciences, United Arab Emirates University, P.O.
Box 17666, Al Ain, United Arab Emirates.
eadeghate@uaeu.ac.ae

OBJECTIVES: The distribution of serotonin (5-HT) and its
effect on insulin and glucagon secretion were investigated to
examine whether there are changes in the pattern of
distribution and effect of 5-HT after the onset of
experimental diabetes. METHODS: The pattern of 5-HT and its
effect of insulin and glucagon secretion was examined using
immunohistochemical and radioimmunoassay techniques,
respectively. RESULTS: 5-HT was demonstrated mainly in the
neural elements of the pancreas. 5-HT-containing fine varicose
nerve fibers were discerned in the wall of blood vessels and
pancreatic ducts. 5-HT-containing nerves were also observed in
the periacinar and periinsular regions of normal pancreas. The
pattern or intensity of the distribution of serotonergic
nerves did not change after the onset of diabetes. The
perivascular, periductal, periacinar and periinsular regions
of diabetic pancreas all contained 5-HT positive nerves. 5-HT
elicited marked increases in insulin secretion from normal
pancreas but had an inhibitory effect on insulin secretion
from diabetic pancreatic tissues. In contrast, 5HT inhibited
glucagon secretion from normal pancreatic tissue fragments but
stimulated glucagon release from diabetic pancreatic tissue
fragments. conclusion: 5-HT is well distributed in normal and
diabetic pancreatic tissues and has stimulatory effects on
insulin secretion from normal pancreas and glucagon secretion
from diabetic pancreas. This result indicates that although
5-HT may help in the maintenance of the blood sugar level in
normal pancreas by increasing insulin secretion and decreasing
glucagon secretion, it may also aggravate the hyperglycemia
observed in diabetes mellitus and hence exacerbate the
symptoms of hyperglycemia in poorly controlled diabetes
mellitus. PMID: 11460094 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

5-HTP could be dangerous when taken orally. It's an
intermediate metabolite between l-tryptophan and serotonin.
The problem is, the enzyme that converts l-tryptophan to 5-HTP
exists only in the brain, but the enzyme that converts 5-HTP
to serotonin exists throughout the body. If you take
l-tryptophan it will create serotonin only in your brain but
if you take 5-HTP it will create serotonin throughout your
body. No one seems to know for sure how bad this is but it's
not normal. Some believe that it could damage the heart the
same way the fen-phen diet drug combination did. I don't know
what you mean by "liquid serotonin" but if you want to try
l-tryptophan you can buy it from iherb.com (I'm only a
customer) but you have to use the search engine on their site,
they don't have it prominently displayed. That's because the
FDA, in it's infinite wisdom, has decided that l-tryptophan is
so dangerous we can't buy it for human consumption. They only
allow it for animal use and in baby food. That's because
neither animals nor babies are a market for SSRI's.

--Hua Kul

[Larry Hoov]

"Denny Hart" <denny_hart@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:80228655.0205181435.36fc6829@posting.google.com...
> This post is for Larry Hover and anyone else
>
> I have avoidant personality disorder. Most people want to
> put me on an SSRI, but I do not want this. I tried to go
> the natural route, but found something very strange. I
> tired liquid serotonin a few times, and suffered from
> something like a low blood sugar reaction for a half a day.
> I felt weak and sickly.
>
> I also tried 50 mg of 5-HTP another time and had the same
> result (but for less longer). Do you know
why
> someone would have this reaction, or at least some theory
> behind why someone would have this reaction. Could it just
> be that I do not need serotonin? A guess is fine.
>
> Denny

Serotonin is not just a signalling molecule in the brain. Its
predominant function is actually to regulate a variety of
digestive processes, including esophogeal and intestinal
peristalis, gastric acid and enzyme release, and insulin
responsiveness to blood glucose.

I've never heard of liquid serotonin before, but presuming
that's what you ingested, both this serotonin and it's
immediate precursor, 5-HTP, would cause hypoglycemia. Your
description of a "low blood sugar reaction" is quite apt. Some
people are much more sensitive to circumstances which lead to
hypoglycemia than are others, and some people are much more
sensitive to the symptoms of hypoglycemia that are others.
Perhaps you have both characteristics?

Many SSRIs are being linked to hypoglycemia, so your trial
with serotonin and precursors may indicate that this form of
treatment is unsuitable for you. Moreover, high blood levels
of serotonin also trigger the release of adrenal hormones
epinephrine and norepinephrine, particularly if hypoglycemia
occurs in conjunction with the serotonin spike. I don't know a
lot about avoidant personality disorder, but if there's an
anxious component in that syndrome, I don't think that adrenal
hormone release would make you more comfortable.

If you want to go "natural", have you tried omega-3 fatty
acids (fish oil), phospholipids (soya lecithin and
phosphatidyl serine), methyl donors (B-12 and betaine), and
licorice root (to rest the adrenals)?

These won't work fast like drugs do, but they might help you
find some gentle relief.

Larry

[Wuzzy]

> why someone would have this reaction, or at least some
> theory behind why someone would have this reaction.
>
> Denny

Dunno, but at risk of being off topic I was recently
interested what dietary factors affect cortisol:

alcohol increases cortisol (and hypertension), licorice and
polyphenols (like quercetin in onion) are 11BHSD inhibitors
meaning that they inhibit the conversion from
cortisol<--->cortisone (vice versa - depending on 11BHSD
isoenzyme and organ affected ex. fat tissue vs. liver)

But curiously, Magnesium (a.k.a.,chocolate?) was shown in a
clinical trial to reduce ACTH which possibly reduces cortisol
and depression? [magnesium also has anti-phospholipase A2
effect, i think]

Psychopharmacology Abstract Volume 137 Issue 3 (1998) pp
247-252 original investigation: Mg2+ reduces ACTH secretion
and enhances spindle power without changing delta power
during sleep in men - possible therapeutic implications

They attribute the reduction in ACTH to magnesium's
"GABAA-agonistic or NMDA-antagonistic"

[Wuzzy]

Forgot to mention that magnesium's anti-stress effects are
reviewed in the following article: Sleep and nutrition are
more related than we tend to think: both are highly dependant
on hypothalamus and on Orexin (a major neuropeptide
controlling both food and sleep)

Magnesium involvement in sleep: Genetic and nutritional models
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BEHAVIOR GENETICS
31 (5): 413-425 SEP 2001

Abstract: Alterations of peripheral magnesium (Mg)
concentration have been reported in association with several
behavioral disorders and sleep organization. Blood Mg
regulation is under a strong genetic control, whereas brain Mg
regulation does not seem to be affected. We have studied
peripheral and central levels of Mg and analyzed sleep in two
lines of mice selected for low (MGL) and high (MGH) red blood
cell (RBC) Mg levels. The same variables were also studied in
C57BL/6J mice before and after 3 weeks of Mg deficiency.
Whereas blood Mg was highly affected by the selection, brain
Mg exhibited only small differences between the two lines. In
contrast, Mg deficiency strongly decreased both central and
peripheral Mg levels. Sleep analysis indicated that in both
models the amount of paradoxical sleep was lower in mice with
higher Mg levels. The amplitude of daily variation in sleep
and slow-wave sleep delta power was markedly decreased in MGH
line. Quantitative electroencephalogram (EEG) analysis also
revealed a faster theta peak frequency in NIGH mice,
irrespective of behavioral states. Central Mg showed
significant correlations with the amount of paradoxical sleep
and sleep consolidation. However, because the direction of
these correlations was not consistent, it is concluded that
optimal, (physiological) rather than high or low, Mg levels
are needed for normal sleep regulation.

I understand if anyone has sleeping trouble they will let me
know, hehe.. Appologies for being off topic..

[Hua Kul]

mypcos@hotmail.com (wuzzy) wrote in message
news:<d996c21a.0205201853.1a5642cb@posting.google.com>...
> Forgot to mention that magnesium's anti-stress effects are
> reviewed in the following article: Sleep and nutrition are
> more related than we tend to think: both are highly
> dependant on hypothalamus and on Orexin (a major
> neuropeptide controlling both food and sleep)
>
>
> Magnesium involvement in sleep: Genetic and nutritional
> models ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BEHAVIOR GENETICS
> 31 (5): 413-425 SEP
> 2001
>
>
> Abstract: Alterations of peripheral magnesium (Mg)
> concentration have been reported in association with several
> behavioral disorders and sleep organization. Blood Mg
> regulation is under a strong genetic control, whereas brain
> Mg regulation does not seem to be affected. We have studied
> peripheral and central levels of Mg and analyzed sleep in
> two lines of mice selected for low (MGL) and high (MGH) red
> blood cell (RBC) Mg levels. The same variables were also
> studied in C57BL/6J mice before and after 3 weeks of Mg
> deficiency. Whereas blood Mg was highly affected by the
> selection, brain Mg exhibited only small differences between
> the two lines. In contrast, Mg deficiency strongly decreased
> both central and peripheral Mg levels. Sleep analysis
> indicated that in both models the amount of paradoxical
> sleep was lower in mice with higher Mg levels. The amplitude
> of daily variation in sleep and slow-wave sleep delta power
> was markedly decreased in MGH line. Quantitative
> electroencephalogram (EEG) analysis also revealed a faster
> theta peak frequency in NIGH mice, irrespective of
> behavioral states. Central Mg showed significant
> correlations with the amount of paradoxical sleep and sleep
> consolidation. However, because the direction of these
> correlations was not consistent, it is concluded that
> optimal, (physiological) rather than high or low, Mg levels
> are needed for normal sleep regulation.
>
>
>
> I understand if anyone has sleeping trouble they will let me
> know, hehe.. Appologies for being off topic..

So we circle around again to another benefit of a low carb
diet. Intracellular magnesium storage is mediated by insulin,
so insulin-resistant tissue is likely to be low in magnesium,
and magnesium helps mediate the action of insulin, so it
becomes a vicious circle. Whatever one can do to lower insulin
levels will improve health.

--Hua Kul

[Never Mind]

gmp@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
news:<3da4c6e5.0205191851.21877f97@posting.google.com>...
> denny_hart@yahoo.com (Denny Hart) wrote in message
> news:<80228655.0205181435.36fc6829@posting.google.com>...
> > This post is for Larry Hover and anyone else
> >
> > I have avoidant personality disorder. Most people want to
> > put me on an SSRI, but I do not want this. I tried to go
> > the natural route, but found something very strange. I
> > tired liquid serotonin a few times, and suffered from
> > something like a low blood sugar reaction for a half a
> > day. I felt weak and sickly.
> >
> > I also tried 50 mg of 5-HTP another time and had the same
> > result (but for less longer). Do you know why someone
> > would have this reaction, or at least some theory behind
> > why someone would have this reaction. Could it just be
> > that I do not need serotonin? A guess is fine.
> >
> > Denny
>
> This may be the source of your hypoglycemic reaction: "5-HT
> elicited marked increases in insulin secretion from normal
> pancreas..." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?-
> cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11460094&dopt=Abstract
>
> 1: Neuroendocrinol Lett 1999;20(5):315-322 Books, LinkOut
> Distribution of serotonin and its effect on insulin and
> glucagon secretion in normal and diabetic pancreatic
> tissues in rat. Adeghate E, Ponery AS, Pallot D, Parvez
> SH, Singh J. Department of Human Anatomy, Faculty of
> Medicine and Health Sciences, United Arab Emirates
> University, P.O. Box 17666, Al Ain, United Arab Emirates.
> eadeghate@uaeu.ac.ae
>
> OBJECTIVES: The distribution of serotonin (5-HT) and its
> effect on insulin and glucagon secretion were investigated
> to examine whether there are changes in the pattern of
> distribution and effect of 5-HT after the onset of
> experimental diabetes. METHODS: The pattern of 5-HT and its
> effect of insulin and glucagon secretion was examined using
> immunohistochemical and radioimmunoassay techniques,
> respectively. RESULTS: 5-HT was demonstrated mainly in the
> neural elements of the pancreas. 5-HT-containing fine
> varicose nerve fibers were discerned in the wall of blood
> vessels and pancreatic ducts. 5-HT-containing nerves were
> also observed in the periacinar and periinsular regions of
> normal pancreas. The pattern or intensity of the
> distribution of serotonergic nerves did not change after the
> onset of diabetes. The perivascular, periductal, periacinar
> and periinsular regions of diabetic pancreas all contained
> 5-HT positive nerves. 5-HT elicited marked increases in
> insulin secretion from normal pancreas but had an inhibitory
> effect on insulin secretion from diabetic pancreatic
> tissues. In contrast, 5HT inhibited glucagon secretion from
> normal pancreatic tissue fragments but stimulated glucagon
> release from diabetic pancreatic tissue fragments.
> conclusion: 5-HT is well distributed in normal and diabetic
> pancreatic tissues and has stimulatory effects on insulin
> secretion from normal pancreas and glucagon secretion from
> diabetic pancreas. This result indicates that although 5-HT
> may help in the maintenance of the blood sugar level in
> normal pancreas by increasing insulin secretion and
> decreasing glucagon secretion, it may also aggravate the
> hyperglycemia observed in diabetes mellitus and hence
> exacerbate the symptoms of hyperglycemia in poorly
> controlled diabetes mellitus. PMID: 11460094 [PubMed - as
> supplied by publisher]
>
> 5-HTP could be dangerous when taken orally. It's an
> intermediate metabolite between l-tryptophan and serotonin.
> The problem is, the enzyme that converts l-tryptophan to
> 5-HTP exists only in the brain, but the enzyme that converts
> 5-HTP to serotonin exists throughout the body. If you take
> l-tryptophan it will create serotonin only in your brain but
> if you take 5-HTP it will create serotonin throughout your
> body. No one seems to know for sure how bad this is but it's
> not normal. Some believe that it could damage the heart the
> same way the fen-phen diet drug combination did. I don't
> know what you mean by "liquid serotonin" but if you want to
> try l-tryptophan you can buy it from iherb.com (I'm only a
> customer) but you have to use the search engine on their
> site, they don't have it prominently displayed. That's
> because the FDA, in it's infinite wisdom, has decided that
> l-tryptophan is so dangerous we can't buy it for human
> consumption. They only allow it for animal use and in baby
> food. That's because neither animals nor babies are a market
> for SSRI's.
>
> --Hua Kul

iherb is just getting it from...
http://www.biochemicals.com/productinfo.php3?id=22

[Dolores]

gmp@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
news:<3da4c6e5.0205231120.44b8b5db@posting.google.com>...
> mypcos@hotmail.com (wuzzy) wrote in message
> news:<d996c21a.0205201853.1a5642cb@posting.google.com>...
> > Forgot to mention that magnesium's anti-stress effects are
> > reviewed in the following article: Sleep and nutrition are
> > more related than we tend to think: both are highly
> > dependant on hypothalamus and on Orexin (a major
> > neuropeptide controlling both food and sleep)
> >
> >
> > Magnesium involvement in sleep: Genetic and nutritional
> > models ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BEHAVIOR GENETICS
> > 31 (5): 413-425 SEP
> > 2001
> >
> >
> > Abstract: Alterations of peripheral magnesium (Mg)
> > concentration have been reported in association with
> > several behavioral disorders and sleep organization. Blood
> > Mg regulation is under a strong genetic control, whereas
> > brain Mg regulation does not seem to be affected. We have
> > studied peripheral and central levels of Mg and analyzed
> > sleep in two lines of mice selected for low (MGL) and high
> > (MGH) red blood cell (RBC) Mg levels. The same variables
> > were also studied in C57BL/6J mice before and after 3
> > weeks of Mg deficiency. Whereas blood Mg was highly
> > affected by the selection, brain Mg exhibited only small
> > differences between the two lines. In contrast, Mg
> > deficiency strongly decreased both central and peripheral
> > Mg levels. Sleep analysis indicated that in both models
> > the amount of paradoxical sleep was lower in mice with
> > higher Mg levels. The amplitude of daily variation in
> > sleep and slow-wave sleep delta power was markedly
> > decreased in MGH line. Quantitative electroencephalogram
> > (EEG) analysis also revealed a faster theta peak frequency
> > in NIGH mice, irrespective of behavioral states. Central
> > Mg showed significant correlations with the amount of
> > paradoxical sleep and sleep consolidation. However,
> > because the direction of these correlations was not
> > consistent, it is concluded that optimal, (physiological)
> > rather than high or low, Mg levels are needed for normal
> > sleep regulation.
> >
> >
> >
> > I understand if anyone has sleeping trouble they will let
> > me know, hehe.. Appologies for being off topic..
>
> So we circle around again to another benefit of a low carb
> diet. Intracellular magnesium storage is mediated by
> insulin, so insulin-resistant tissue is likely to be low in
> magnesium, and magnesium helps mediate the action of
> insulin, so it becomes a vicious circle. Whatever one can do
> to lower insulin levels will improve health.
>
> --Hua Kul

Or the benefit if a high carb diet and lots of healthful
exercise. Meat and fish raise insulin levels as high as
potatoes and popcorn. Exercise diminishes insulin resistance.

Dolores

[Hua Kul]

santostm@webtv.net (dolores) wrote in message
news:<7e9164f6.0206040322.6995dddf@posting.google.com>...
>
> Meat and fish raise insulin levels as high as potatoes and
> popcorn.
>
> Dolores

Absolutely not. Please supply some documentation for your
assertion.

--Hua Kul

[Wuzzy]

santostm@webtv.net (dolores) wrote in message
news:<7e9164f6.0206040322.6995dddf@posting.google.com>...
> gmp@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
> news:<3da4c6e5.0205231120.44b8b5db@posting.google.com>...
> > mypcos@hotmail.com (wuzzy) wrote in message
> > news:<d996c21a.0205201853.1a5642cb@posting.google.com>...
> > > Forgot to mention that magnesium's anti-stress effects
> > > are reviewed in the following article: Sleep and
> > > nutrition are more related than we tend to think: both
> > > are highly dependant on hypothalamus and on Orexin (a
> > > major neuropeptide controlling both food and sleep)
> > >
> > >
> > > Magnesium involvement in sleep: Genetic and nutritional
> > > models ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BEHAVIOR GENETICS
> > > 31 (5): 413-425
> > > SEP 2001
> > >
> > >
> > > Abstract: Alterations of peripheral magnesium (Mg)
> > > concentration have been reported in association with
> > > several behavioral disorders and sleep organization.
> > > Blood Mg regulation is under a strong genetic control,
> > > whereas brain Mg regulation does not seem to be
> > > affected. We have studied peripheral and central levels
> > > of Mg and analyzed sleep in two lines of mice selected
> > > for low (MGL) and high (MGH) red blood cell (RBC) Mg
> > > levels. The same variables were also studied in C57BL/6J
> > > mice before and after 3 weeks of Mg deficiency. Whereas
> > > blood Mg was highly affected by the selection, brain Mg
> > > exhibited only small differences between the two lines.
> > > In contrast, Mg deficiency strongly decreased both
> > > central and peripheral Mg levels. Sleep analysis
> > > indicated that in both models the amount of paradoxical
> > > sleep was lower in mice with higher Mg levels. The
> > > amplitude of daily variation in sleep and slow-wave
> > > sleep delta power was markedly decreased in MGH line.
> > > Quantitative electroencephalogram (EEG) analysis also
> > > revealed a faster theta peak frequency in NIGH mice,
> > > irrespective of behavioral states. Central Mg showed
> > > significant correlations with the amount of paradoxical
> > > sleep and sleep consolidation. However, because the
> > > direction of these correlations was not consistent, it
> > > is concluded that optimal, (physiological) rather than
> > > high or low, Mg levels are needed for normal sleep
> > > regulation.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I understand if anyone has sleeping trouble they will
> > > let me know, hehe.. Appologies for being off topic..
> >
> > So we circle around again to another benefit of a low carb
> > diet. Intracellular magnesium storage is mediated by
> > insulin, so insulin-resistant tissue is likely to be low
> > in magnesium, and magnesium helps mediate the action of
> > insulin, so it becomes a vicious circle. Whatever one can
> > do to lower insulin levels will improve health.
> >
> > --Hua Kul
>
> Or the benefit if a high carb diet and lots of healthful
> exercise. Meat and fish raise insulin levels as high as
> potatoes and popcorn. Exercise diminishes insulin
> resistance.
>
> Dolores

Incidentally, there is an article in the upcoming Diabetes
Research and clinical practice, available as an uncorrected
proof on sciencedirect for subscribers that shows that walking
*after* a meal lowers glycemic index of meal whereas *before*
a meal increases it, in type I diabetics.. (with no exercise
as reference group)

basically exercise after, not before, to reduce glycemic
index of meal..

a similar study, Diabetologia 1997 40:447-453, Effect of
moderate exercise on postprandial glucose found that it
reduces insulin index in type ii diabetics..

Article is called "The effect of walking before and after
breakfast on blood glucose levels in patients with type 1
diabetes treated with intensive insulin therapy" should be out
in the next issue.. of Diabetes Research in Clinical Practice

[Wuzzy]

wuzzy wrote,

>shows that walking *after* a meal lowers glycemic index of
>meal whereas *before* a meal increases it,
in
>type I diabetics.. (with no exercise as reference group)

This is of interest to me as I have particular interest in
leisure acitivity and if you look at minute-to-minute
activity, you'll note that thin people are active all day even
in the minutes before and after meal they are eating they are
more active, as assessed by accelerometer.

(a while ago I looked at a cool dataset on what people did all
day yesterday, very cool lots of codes complicated - I hate
these types of datasets with thousands of codes - a separate
library just for the codes!)