Excessive protein, at what level is it a real problem?

[Kerryhb]

I am trying to determine the maximum amount of protein that
can be consumed before it becomes a real problem in the
general population.

Are there any scientific studies that document the level at
which excessive protein becomes a problem for a significant
portion of the people? I am not taking about people with
special medical conditions. I am looking for either a
percentage number or an absolute number of grams per day.

In particular, is there any study showing a diet of 15%
protein and 71 grams/day is really harmful? This diet has less
than 10% fat.

For diabetics, I have seen recommendations of from 15% to 28%
protein. In the 15% protein recommendation, there is a limit
of less than 30% total fat and less than 7% saturated fat.

Let me explain why I am confused:

The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations
in the document found at
http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/AA040E/AA040E09.htm#ch8.2
Section 8.2.2 Protein "For adults the protein requirement
per kg body weight is considered to be the same for both
sexes at all ages and body weights within the acceptable
range. The value accepted for the safe level of intake is
0.75 g per kg per day, in terms of proteins with the
digestibility of milk or egg."

This means that for a person weighting 100 pounds (or 45.5
kg), the safe level is 34g of protein a day. (For a 200-pound
person, this would be 68g.) For 100 pound person, the safe
level would be about 136 calories from protein. If that person
is on a 1500 calorie diet, this would be 9% protein as the
safe level.

It's easy to get a lot of protein even on a low fat diet: On
the label a tuna can, for a servicing size of 56g, there is 13
grams of protein. For 1 cup of Fat Free Mike, there is 8 grams
of protein. So if a person had one tuna sandwich per day and
three glasses of milk per day, this would be 37 grams of
protein - which already exceeds the safe level.

You probably can see why I am very confused. So, any reference
you could give me would be helpful.

Kerry

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow KerryHB rambled on about
"Excessive protein, at what level is it a real problem?."
Our champion de-medicalising in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
thusly ...

>You probably can see why I am very confused. So, any
>reference you could give me would be helpful.

You did say any reference didn't you?

~ The Nutrition of Macronutrients ~
http://food.naturalhealthperspective.com/dgtable.html "Protein
- Reports, such as in Journal of Nutrition 2000; 130:
2889-2896, of "oxidative stress" in "adequate / low protein"
diets are due mostly to clearly excessively high levels of
carbohydrates and excessively low fat levels. Up the FAT to a
recommended 30% low fat diet and most ''oxidative stress" will
disappear with an "adequate protein" diet. Excessive protein
in the diet results in excess "Protein Oxidation."

See the table of Macronutrients.

Complete with supporting citations of course.
--
John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of
the biomedical model of natural health. Weighing in at 17
webpages, Nutrition (www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/)
is now with more documentation and sharper terminology than
ever before.

[Slenon]

Be aware that gohde has no scientific or medical background
and is thoroughly unqualified to offer advice or information
about healthcare and/or nutrition. If you have questions or
concerns, see your physician, a registered dietician, or
someone with an academic background in nutrition.

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Sir John]

"slenon" <slenon@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:zz7F8.329647$nc.49263687@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...

> Be aware that gohde has no scientific or medical background
> and is thoroughly unqualified to offer advice or information
> about healthcare and/or nutrition. If you have questions or
> concerns, see your physician, registered dietician, or
> someone with an academic background in nutrition. Stev

Stev is the local Village Idiot, super egoist, and Ignoramus
who routinely attacks anybody and everybody that he does not
like. Stev Lenon, the smn Nazi, has been personally attacking
my posts for years without even a Masters Degree.

Stev Lenon is *not* an MD.

Stev Lenon is *not* the moderator of these newsgroups.

Stev Lenon is *not* a Registered Dietitian.

Stev Lenon is *not* a Nutritionist.

Stev Lenon is *not* a BioChemist.

Stev Lenon claims to be a MT. This Medical Technologist Geek
is totally unqualified academically in nutrition to be making
the claims that he is making. Stev only has a Bachelors degree
in shit testing from a second rate institution. Jay is nothing
but a Fraud because MT is not Nutrition.

If Stev knew what he was talking about he would have a Ph.D.
in Biochemistry, if not in Nutrition, from a top of the line
Institution of higher learning. No, as of this date he doesn't
even have a Masters Degree, just a super-ego to Nourish.

Stev Lenon is just the local Village Idiot, super egoist,
pompous ignoramus who thinks that he is God. Stev plays with
shit all day. His qualifications simply can not keep up with
his inflated Ego. :-(

Stev claims to believe that in health care the ultimate bottom
line is patients, yet he knocks me for being a patients'
empowerment advocate. Apparently, Stev thinks that no one can
advocate for patients' rights without the proper credentials,
which of course he himself does not have.

Stev Lenon is not remotely interested in promoting anything
other than his own ego. He couldn't care less about his own
personal health, and certainly *not* anybody's else's personal
health. No Stev just likes to play with shit all day.

To repeat, Stev Lenon is a MT Fraud without even a Masters
degree in Nutrition.
--
John Gohde, Patients' Empowerment Advocate
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering de-medicalisation
by handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care
and autonomy, and resisting the categorisation of life's
problems as medical.

[Slenon]

gohde rant snipped

gohde, you imbecile, if you are going to recycle your canned
rants against people who call you out to prove your
qualifications, it would behoove you to proof the changes
before you post them. You have failed to completely change the
names from the last time you used this little tirade.

Poor performance, bad spelling and many grammatical errors.

You have no idea what University I graduated.

As for credentials, I hold two national certifications and
state licensure. I'd be really amused to see you try to answer
any of the questions on the least rigourous of the
examinations. I've put in the time and effort in education and
clinical practice to back up my statements. You've published a
multi-page web monstrosity that consists of copied material
from multiple sources, spelling errors, pop-psycho babble,
grammatical screwups, and commercial links. Your self-interest
is showing. And you lack of ability to offer any originality
and do your own research is evident.

Attack you for years? Don't flatter yourself. I simply
indicate that anyone reading your pablum should be aware that
you are unqualified to offer medical or nutritional advice.
You do all the rest by making rediculous, unsupportable, and
unintelligible statements.

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Sir John]

Well then, you should have absolutely no problem in stating
with great specificity one health claim that I made on my 65
page web site that is incorrect.

Naturally, you would have to state why you think that it is
wrong, along with citations to supporting material (just like
I always do.).

I wait with baited breath.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

"slenon" <slenon@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2vaF8.509207$K52.86803546@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> gohde rant snipped
>
> gohde, you imbecile, if you are going to recycle your canned
> rants against people who call you out to prove your
> qualifications, it would behoove you to proof the changes
> before you post them. You have failed to completely change
> the names from the last time you used this little tirade.
>
> Poor performance, bad spelling and many grammatical errors.
>
> You have no idea what University I graduated.
>
> As for credentials, I hold two national certifications
> and state
licensure.
> I'd be really amused to see you try to answer any of the
> questions on the least rigourous of the examinations. I've
> put in the time and effort in education and clinical
> practice to back up my statements. You've
published
> a multi-page web monstrosity that consists of copied
> material from
multiple
> sources, spelling errors, pop-psycho babble, grammatical
> screwups, and commercial links. Your self-interest is
> showing. And you lack of ability to offer any originality
> and do your own research is evident.
>
> Attack you for years? Don't flatter yourself. I simply
> indicate that anyone reading your pablum should be aware
> that you are unqualified to
offer
> medical or nutritional advice. You do all the rest by making
> rediculous, unsupportable, and unintelligible statements.
>
>
>
> --
> Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia
> ashes Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate
> bottom line is patients
not
> profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member slenon@tampabay.rr.com
> http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92k-
> word.htm

[Slenon]

gohde:
>Well then, you should have absolutely no problem in stating
>with great
specificity one health claim that I made on my 65 page web
site that is
>incorrect. Naturally, you would have to state why you think
>that it is
wrong, along with citations to supporting material (just like
I always do.).
>I wait with baited breath.

Sorry, gohde. I hit that website once. I've no intention of
wading through 65 pages of psycho-babble and commercial links
to feed your ego. Citations would be worthless. You fail to
understand the ones you do post.

And, spelling error, the word you wanted is "bated", not
"baited."

What degrees and what schools?

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Sir John]

Stev bleats like a wounded rabbit when called to make sense.

Stev might know grammar, but knows shit about nutrition
and health.

Searching on "baited breath" in Google turns up 24,500 hits.

Searching on "bated breath" in Google turns up 23,900 hits.

Majority rules. And, archaic usage be damn!

"slenon" <slenon@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:q%dF8.331754$nc.49782711@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> gohde:
> >Well then, you should have absolutely no problem in stating
> >with great
> specificity one health claim that I made on my 65 page web
> site that is
> >incorrect. Naturally, you would have to state why you think
> >that it is
> wrong, along with citations to supporting material (just
> like I always
do.).
> >I wait with baited breath.
>
> Sorry, gohde. I hit that website once. I've no intention
> of wading
through
> 65 pages of psycho-babble and commercial links to feed
> your ego.
Citations
> would be worthless. You fail to understand the ones you
> do post.
>
> And, spelling error, the word you wanted is "bated", not
> "baited."
>
> What degrees and what schools?
>
> --
> Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia
> ashes Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate
> bottom line is patients
not
> profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member slenon@tampabay.rr.com
> http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92k-
> word.htm

[Slenon]

gohde:
>Stev might know grammar, but knows shit about nutrition and
>health. Searching on "baited breath" in Google turns up
>24,500 hits. Searching on "bated breath" in Google turns up
>23,900 hits. Majority rules. And, archaic usage be damn!

No, you still can't reduce data correctly. Your search results
merely indicate that the majority of the people using the
phrase turned up in your search don't know which spelling is
correct either. If 50+% spell something incorrectly, it is
still spelled incorrectly. You must be getting tired of
shooting yourself in the foot everytime you post.

Now, get another bandaid ready. It should be "archaic usage
be damned."

What degrees, what institutions?
--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Sir John]

It means that "baited breath" is in common usage.

Now, thanks again for wasting my time.

"slenon" <slenon@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:xweF8.332218$nc.49833125@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> gohde:
> >Stev might know grammar, but knows shit about nutrition and
> >health. Searching on "baited breath" in Google turns up
> >24,500 hits. Searching on "bated breath" in Google turns up
> >23,900 hits. Majority rules. And, archaic usage be damn!
>
> No, you still can't reduce data correctly. Your search
> results merely indicate that the majority of the people
> using the phrase turned up in
your
> search don't know which spelling is correct either. If
> 50+% spell
something
> incorrectly, it is still spelled incorrectly. You must be
> getting tired
of
> shooting yourself in the foot everytime you post.
>
> Now, get another bandaid ready. It should be "archaic usage
> be damned."
>
> What degrees, what institutions?
> --
> Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia
> ashes Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate
> bottom line is patients
not
> profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member slenon@tampabay.rr.com
> http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92k-
> word.htm

[Paul Chefu]

On Sat, 18 May 2002 17:06:04 GMT, karenn_k@yahoo.com
(Karen) wrote:

>The word "baited" has a very different meaning and is not
>correct in the context used. Check your dictionary. I'm not
>sure what this could mean. Someone with bad breath from
>eating too many anchovies, perhaps?

I rephrase it as "waiting with a worm on my tongue". Misuse
like bairted/bated" ticks me off too. It's like the confusion
between "discrete" and "discreet" - it drives me crazy,
especially when I see it in newspapers.

Paul

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow Paul Chefurka rambled on about
"Re: Excessive protein, at what level is it a real problem?."
Our champion de-medicalising in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
thusly ...

>it drives me crazy, especially when I see it in newspapers.
>
>Paul

Ha!, ... Hah, Ha!

It don't bother me at all. :-)
--
John Gohde Email: Ngs@NaturalHealthPerspective.com (((((((((((
Left-Brain Mode ON )))))))))))) Richmond, Virginia, USA,
Planet Earth, The Sun, Milky Way galaxy

[Slenon]

gohde:
>It means that "baited breath" is in common usage. Now, thanks
>again for
wasting my time

It means that your search revealed a majority of people
posting did not spell the word correctly for the utilization
they wanted. Common usage does not make it correct. Learn to
read for comprehension and to draw the correct conclusions
from data rather than distorting findings to make it appear as
if your flawed assumption is correct.

As for wasting your time, I'm not responsible for how you
choose to manage what time you have available. What degrees?
What schools?
--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Karen]

On Fri, 17 May 2002 21:55:26 GMT, "Sir John" <Sir
John@GetStev.com> wrote:

>It means that "baited breath" is in common usage.

This spelling is completely incorrect and obscures the
original meaning of this phrase.

"Bated breath" is a shortened form of "abated breath", and
implies that the subject is holding his breath, waiting for
something with strong anticipation, for instance.

The word "baited" has a very different meaning and is not
correct in the context used. Check your dictionary. I'm not
sure what this could mean. Someone with bad breath from eating
too many anchovies, perhaps?

Karen

"A low-fat plant-based diet would not only lower the heart
attack
rate about 85%, but would lower the cancer rate 60 percent."

-- William Castelli, M.D., Director, Framingham Health
Study; National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute

[Suzee]

Sir John wrote:
>
> It means that "baited breath" is in common usage.
>
It's still a misspelling.... check your dictionary.

Of course since you persist in baiting many of the posters
here, perhaps you've used it correctly after all.

sue

[Sir John]

Still trying to punch your way out of a tyvek paper bag,
I see. :-(

"slenon" <slenon@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:%xrF8.339646$nc.51015574@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> gohde:
> >It means that "baited breath" is in common usage. Now,
> >thanks again for
> wasting my time
>
> It means that your search revealed a majority of people
> posting did not spell the word correctly for the utilization
> they wanted. Common usage
does
> not make it correct. Learn to read for comprehension and to
> draw the correct conclusions from data rather than
> distorting findings to make it appear as if your flawed
> assumption is correct.
>
> As for wasting your time, I'm not responsible for how you
> choose to manage what time you have available. What degrees?
> What schools?
> --
> Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia
> ashes Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate
> bottom line is patients
not
> profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member slenon@tampabay.rr.com
> http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92k-
> word.htm

[Ron Hardin]

Karen wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 May 2002 21:55:26 GMT, "Sir John" <Sir
> John@GetStev.com> wrote:
>
> >It means that "baited breath" is in common usage.
>
> This spelling is completely incorrect and obscures the
> original meaning of this phrase.
>
> "Bated breath" is a shortened form of "abated breath", and
> implies that the subject is holding his breath, waiting for
> something with strong anticipation, for instance.

There's no reason for everybody to tow the same line.
--
Ron Hardin rhhardin@mindspring.com

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

[Sir John]

Why do you persist in being a man?

"suzee" <qiuser@nidlink.com> wrote in message
news:3CE69407.5E99@nidlink.com...
> Sir John wrote:
> >
> > It means that "baited breath" is in common usage.
> >
> It's still a misspelling.... check your dictionary.
>
> Of course since you persist in baiting many of the posters
> here, perhaps you've used it correctly after all.
>
> sue

[Slenon]

gohde:
>Still trying to punch your way out of a tyvek paper
>bag, I see

Read for comprehension. Tyvek is not paper. You are not an
authority on nutrition.

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Slenon]

>There's no reason for everybody to tow the same line.
>Ron Hardin

How many people it takes on a tow line depend upon the object
being towed. Toe the line, perhaps?

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Paul Roger]

On Sat, 18 May 2002 17:22:45 GMT, Ron Hardin
<rhhardin@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Karen wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 17 May 2002 21:55:26 GMT, "Sir John" <Sir
>> John@GetStev.com> wrote:
>>
>> >It means that "baited breath" is in common usage.
>>
>> This spelling is completely incorrect and obscures the
>> original meaning of this phrase.
>>
>> "Bated breath" is a shortened form of "abated breath", and
>> implies that the subject is holding his breath, waiting for
>> something with strong anticipation, for instance.
>
>There's no reason for everybody to tow the same line.

"A hard road to hoe" perhaps?

PR

[Suzee]

Sir John wrote:
>
> Why do you persist in being a man?

Because I have more male `energy' than female due to many
previouse lifetimes as a man????

You forget, I agree with you on overmedicalization of normal
lifetime events, such as childbirth and menopause. Come to
think of it, maybe that's why my male side is showing.... the
drop in estrogen I'm experiencing in perimenopause is making
my male hormones more predominant... more estrogen quick!

sue