More on Tofu and the Brain

[Jon Larson]

http://www.bjklein.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=438

exerpts:

'The results of this preliminary investigation suggest that
the aluminum concentration in soy products is increased
slightly by cooking, particularly in an aluminum pot, and
strongly (as much as 15-fold) by some methods of tofu
production.'

'The lead author in the as yet unpublished recent study
implicating tofu as a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease in
male Japanese living in Hawaii does not endorse the
aluminum-Alzheimer's hypothesis and suggests that isoflavones
in tofu are the etiologic factors.'

'A nice collection of references supporting the
tofu-genistein-isoflavone/Alzheimer hypothesis can be
found at:'

'However there are still some lively academic voices
suspecting a role for aluminum in Alzheimer's and other
neurodegenerative disease. A few can be found referenced at:'

'For the guys who ate no tofu, however, they tested as though
they were five years younger.'

'White and his fellow researchers speculate that soy's
estrogen-like compounds (phytoestrogens) might compete with
the body's natural estrogens for estrogen receptors in
brain cells.'

'One link to the puzzle may involve calcium-binding proteins,
which are associated with protection against neurodegenerative
diseases. In recent animal studies at Brigham Young
University's Neuroscience Center, researchers found that
consumption of phytoestrogens via a soy diet for a relatively
short interval can significantly elevate phytoestrogens levels
in the brain and decrease brain calcium-binding proteins. [4]'

'While soybeans are relatively high in protein compared to
other legumes, Enig says they are a poor source of protein
because other proteins found in soybeans act as potent enzyme
inhibitors. These "anti-nutrients" block the action of trypsin
and other enzymes needed for protein digestion.'

And MUCH, MUCH more.

http://www.vegsource.com/harris/brain_aging.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/17/soy_brain.htm http://www.-
abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/2020_000609_soy_feature.html http:/-
/allergies.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.w-
estonaprice.org/soy%5Falert.htm

[Nada from PETA, IDA, Animal Agenda.]

[Punnadhamm]

In article <ba3890c4.0205161214.2f22c7a@posting.google.com>,
Jon Larson <jon_larson811@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 'The lead author in the as yet unpublished recent study
> implicating tofu as a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease in
> male Japanese living in Hawaii does not endorse the
> aluminum-Alzheimer's hypothesis and suggests that
> isoflavones in tofu are the etiologic factors.'

Jeez, this can't be right. Tofu is totally bland and the
texture is horrible. That means it *must* be good for
you, right? ;)

[Jon Larson]

punnadhammo <arcc@CLIPTHIS_baynet.net> wrote in message
news:<170520020853269405%arcc@CLIPTHIS_baynet.net>...
> In article <ba3890c4.0205161214.2f22c7a@posting.google.com>,
> Jon Larson <jon_larson811@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > 'The lead author in the as yet unpublished recent study
> > implicating tofu as a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease
> > in male Japanese living in Hawaii does not endorse the
> > aluminum-Alzheimer's hypothesis and suggests that
> > isoflavones in tofu are the etiologic factors.'
>
> Jeez, this can't be right. Tofu is totally bland and the
> texture is horrible. That means it *must* be good for you,
> right? ;)

Take a pound of tofu. Mash it up with a fork. Mash it into the
frying pan. [Spreading it all around.] Let fry till a little
brown-crisp. Turn it over. Do the other side. Add one sliced
up tomato.
1/2 small can of mushroom parts. Some sliced up onion. Some
sliced up Bell pepper. 2 spoons of margarine [CRUCIAL!
Don't put too much margarine in!] Salt. Grape Jam. Toast.
Orange Juice.

Best Vegan Meal Ever! Almost as good as scrambled eggs. [Thank
you for not eating eggs, though.]

NOT BLAND!!!!

[Tintinet]

jon_larson811@hotmail.com (Jon Larson) wrote in message
news:<ba3890c4.0205172138.594692e8@posting.google.com>...
> punnadhammo <arcc@CLIPTHIS_baynet.net> wrote in message
> news:<170520020853269405%arcc@CLIPTHIS_baynet.net>...
> > In article
> > <ba3890c4.0205161214.2f22c7a@posting.google.com>, Jon
> > Larson <jon_larson811@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > 'The lead author in the as yet unpublished recent study
> > > implicating tofu as a risk factor for Alzheimer's
> > > disease in male Japanese living in Hawaii does not
> > > endorse the aluminum-Alzheimer's hypothesis and suggests
> > > that isoflavones in tofu are the etiologic factors.'
> >
> > Jeez, this can't be right. Tofu is totally bland and the
> > texture is horrible. That means it *must* be good for you,
> > right? ;)
>
> Take a pound of tofu. Mash it up with a fork. Mash it into
> the frying pan. [Spreading it all around.] Let fry till a
> little brown-crisp. Turn it over. Do the other side. Add one
> sliced up tomato.
> 1/2 small can of mushroom parts. Some sliced up onion. Some
> sliced up Bell pepper. 2 spoons of margarine [CRUCIAL!
> Don't put too much margarine in!] Salt. Grape Jam. Toast.
> Orange Juice.
>
> Best Vegan Meal Ever! Almost as good as scrambled eggs.
> [Thank you for not eating eggs, though.]
>
> NOT BLAND!!!!

Sounds like a fatal recipe. The tofu scrambles one's brain
while the margarine fries one's blood vessels and cell
membranes and the toast and jam glycate one's proteins, not to
mention the acrylamides!

[Jon Larson]

tintinet@altavista.com (tintinet) wrote in message
news:<7610a557.0205180442.2aa6f7a6@posting.google.com>...
> jon_larson811@hotmail.com (Jon Larson) wrote in message
> news:<ba3890c4.0205172138.594692e8@posting.google.com>...

> > Take a pound of tofu. Mash it up with a fork. Mash it into
> > the frying pan. [Spreading it all around.] Let fry till a
> > little brown-crisp. Turn it over. Do the other side. Add
> > one sliced up tomato.
> > 1/2 small can of mushroom parts. Some sliced up onion.
> > Some sliced up Bell pepper. 2 spoons of margarine
> > [CRUCIAL! Don't put too much margarine in!] Salt. Grape
> > Jam. Toast. Orange Juice.
> >
> > Best Vegan Meal Ever! Almost as good as scrambled eggs.
> > [Thank you for not eating eggs, though.]
> >

>
> Sounds like a fatal recipe. The tofu scrambles one's brain
> while the margarine fries one's blood vessels and cell
> membranes and the toast and jam glycate one's proteins, not
> to mention the acrylamides!

How do you know tofu is so bad for me? Maybe the problem is
caused by eating LOTS of tofu that has LOTS of aluminum in it?
Besides, if you want to get to eternal life in heaven, you'll
probably have to make a few sacrifices at this level.

I ALREADY suggested a MODERATE amount of margarine.

If toast and jam is bad for my health, then I guess I'll
just live to
87.5 instead of 87.6. Big Deal! Five out five of my parents
and grandparents who made it to 83 got alzheimers
anyway. Incidentally, I doubt if any except my Mother
even HEARD of tofu.

I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded Acryamides!!!!

[Tintinet]

jon_larson811@hotmail.com (Jon Larson) wrote in message
news:<ba3890c4.0205181547.42e8e116@posting.google.com>...
> tintinet@altavista.com (tintinet) wrote in message
> news:<7610a557.0205180442.2aa6f7a6@posting.google.com>...
> > jon_larson811@hotmail.com (Jon Larson) wrote in message
> > news:<ba3890c4.0205172138.594692e8@posting.google.com>...
>
> > > Take a pound of tofu. Mash it up with a fork. Mash it
> > > into the frying pan. [Spreading it all around.] Let fry
> > > till a little brown-crisp. Turn it over. Do the other
> > > side. Add one sliced up tomato.
> > > 1/2 small can of mushroom parts. Some sliced up onion.
> > > Some sliced up Bell pepper. 2 spoons of margarine
> > > [CRUCIAL! Don't put too much margarine in!] Salt.
> > > Grape Jam. Toast. Orange Juice.
> > >
> > > Best Vegan Meal Ever! Almost as good as scrambled eggs.
> > > [Thank you for not eating eggs, though.]
> > >
>
> >
> > Sounds like a fatal recipe. The tofu scrambles one's brain
> > while the margarine fries one's blood vessels and cell
> > membranes and the toast and jam glycate one's proteins,
> > not to mention the acrylamides!
>
> How do you know tofu is so bad for me? Maybe the problem is
> caused by eating LOTS of tofu that has LOTS of aluminum in
> it? Besides, if you want to get to eternal life in heaven,
> you'll probably have to make a few sacrifices at this level.
>
> I ALREADY suggested a MODERATE amount of margarine.
>
> If toast and jam is bad for my health, then I guess I'll
> just live to
> 87.5 instead of 87.6. Big Deal! Five out five of my parents
> and grandparents who made it to 83 got alzheimers anyway.
> Incidentally, I doubt if any except my Mother even HEARD
> of tofu.
>
> I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded
> Acryamides!!!!

I agree. We all need to lighten up a bit here. My post was a
bit a of a jest, although I know such things can be difficult
to judge when read as apposed to heard in conversation.

[Alan Pollo]

In sci.life-extension Jon Larson
<jon_larson811@hotmail.com> wrote:

> If toast and jam is bad for my health, then I guess I'll
> just live to
> 87.5 instead of 87.6. Big Deal! Five out five of my parents
> and grandparents who made it to 83 got alzheimers anyway.
> Incidentally, I doubt if any except my Mother even HEARD
> of tofu.

> I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded
> Acryamides!!!!

Bravo! Nex

[Sara T.]

> tintinet@altavista.com (tintinet) wrote in message
> news:<7610a557.0205180442.2aa6f7a6@posting.google.com>...
<snip>

> How do you know tofu is so bad for me? Maybe the problem is
> caused by eating LOTS of tofu that has LOTS of aluminum in
> it? Besides, if you want to get to eternal life in heaven,
> you'll probably have to make a few sacrifices at this level.
>
> I ALREADY suggested a MODERATE amount of margarine.
>
> If toast and jam is bad for my health, then I guess I'll
> just live to
> 87.5 instead of 87.6. Big Deal! Five out five of my parents
> and grandparents who made it to 83 got alzheimers anyway.
> Incidentally, I doubt if any except my Mother even HEARD
> of tofu.
>
> I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded
> Acryamides!!!!

Bravo! I love toast and jam too. For what it's worth, I have
a sneaking suspicion that a proper choice of grandparents is
_still_ the single most powerful determining factor in both
extent and quality of life. In other words, it's still not
up to you...

Sara T.
-------
if you want to reply by e-mail, remove the 'dot gov' and the
'X A'

[Punnadhamm]

In article <ba3890c4.0205172138.594692e8@posting.google.com>,
Jon Larson <jon_larson811@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Best Vegan Meal Ever! Almost as good as scrambled eggs.
> [Thank you for not eating eggs, though.]

*almost* says it all

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow Sara T. rambled on about "Re:
More on Tofu and the Brain." Our champion de-medicalising in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>For what it's worth, I have a sneaking suspicion that a
>proper choice of grandparents is _still_ the single most
>powerful determining factor in both extent and quality of
>life. In other words, it's still not up to you...

That belief is absolutely laughable.

~ An Agenda of Natural Health & Wellness ~
http://contact.naturalhealthperspective.com/agenda.html
"Making changes in your lifestyle works!

A study in the July 9, 2001 issue of Archives of Internal
Medicine, published by the American Medical Association,
provides the scientific proof. This study shows that
populations that follow what is described as healthy behaviors
do live profoundly longer -- up to 5 and even 10 years longer
than those who don't. And most of those years tend to be
disability-free. [4]"

Complete with citations, as always.

And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional epidemiology
from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
--
John Gohde, Patient Empowerment Advocate
http://home.naturalhealthperspective.com/empowerment.html
Email: Ngs@NaturalHealthPerspective.com
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com - Pioneering
de-medicalisation by handing back the power to the people,
encouraging self care and autonomy, and resisting the
categorization of life's problems as medical.

[Tintinet]

"Sara T." <saratee@XAtande.com.gov> wrote in message
news:<Xns9214210D6B64PossiblyMaybePerhaps@204.127.36.1>...
> > tintinet@altavista.com (tintinet) wrote in message
> > news:<7610a557.0205180442.2aa6f7a6@posting.google.com>...
> <snip>
>
> > How do you know tofu is so bad for me? Maybe the problem
> > is caused by eating LOTS of tofu that has LOTS of aluminum
> > in it? Besides, if you want to get to eternal life in
> > heaven, you'll probably have to make a few sacrifices at
> > this level.
> >
> > I ALREADY suggested a MODERATE amount of margarine.
> >
> > If toast and jam is bad for my health, then I guess I'll
> > just live to
> > 87.5 instead of 87.6. Big Deal! Five out five of my
> > parents and grandparents who made it to 83 got
> > alzheimers anyway. Incidentally, I doubt if any except
> > my Mother even HEARD of tofu.
> >
> > I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded
> > Acryamides!!!!
>
> Bravo! I love toast and jam too. For what it's worth, I have
> a sneaking suspicion that a proper choice of grandparents is
> _still_ the single most powerful determining factor in both
> extent and quality of life. In other words, it's still not
> up to you...
>
> Sara T.
> -------
> if you want to reply by e-mail, remove the 'dot gov' and
> the 'X A'

Yes, perhaps you are correct. Nevertheless, I responded to the
post because it was listed in sci.life-extension and
sci.med.nutrition, not on
alt.whocareswhatweeatletsjusthavefunheresadonut!

[Slenon]

gohde:
>>For what it's worth, I have a sneaking >suspicion that a
>>proper choice of
grandparents is _still_ the single most
>>powerful determining factor in both extent and quality of
>>life. In other
words, it's still not up to you...

>That belief is absolutely laughable

In other words, your ancestors were relatively short-lived
compared to the norm. Despite all efforts to the contrary, you
will die. When and how is still largely a factor of genetics
unless you die of accident or violence.

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow slenon rambled on about "Re: More
on Tofu and the Brain." Our champion de-medicalising in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>In other words, your ancestors were relatively short-lived
>compared to the norm. Despite all efforts to the contrary,
>you will die. When and how is still largely a factor of
>genetics unless you die of accident or violence.

Your belief is absolutely laughable.

And, anybody with your negative attitude should removed
themselves permanently from these health ngs. You are
obviously lost.

~ An Agenda of Natural Health & Wellness ~
http://contact.naturalhealthperspective.com/agenda.html
"Making changes in your lifestyle works!

A study in the July 9, 2001 issue of Archives of Internal
Medicine, published by the American Medical Association,
provides the scientific proof. This study shows that
populations that follow what is described as healthy behaviors
do live profoundly longer -- up to 5 and even 10 years longer
than those who don't. And most of those years tend to be
disability-free. [4]"

Complete with citations, as always.

And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional epidemiology
from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
--
John Gohde, Patient Empowerment Advocate
http://home.naturalhealthperspective.com/empowerment.html
Email: Ngs@NaturalHealthPerspective.com
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com - Pioneering
de-medicalisation by handing back the power to the people,
encouraging self care and autonomy, and resisting the
categorization of life's problems as medical.

[Slenon]

gohde:
>And, anybody with your negative attitude should removed
>themselves
permanently from these health ngs. You are obviously lost.

I believe you have made several threats to remove me. Like
providing documentation of your supposed degrees; another
promise you've defaulted.

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Sara T.]

tintinet@altavista.com (tintinet) wrote in
news:7610a557.0205200405.40056d9@posting.google.com:

<snip>
>> > If toast and jam is bad for my health, then I guess I'll
>> > just live to 87.5 instead of 87.6. Big Deal! Five out
>> > five of my parents and grandparents who made it to 83 got
>> > alzheimers anyway. Incidentally, I doubt if any except my
>> > Mother even HEARD of tofu.
>> >
>> > I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded
>> > Acryamides!!!!
>>
>> Bravo! I love toast and jam too. For what it's worth, I
>> have a sneaking suspicion that a proper choice of
>> grandparents is _still_ the single most powerful
>> determining factor in both extent and quality of life. In
>> other words, it's still not up to you...
>>
<snip>
>
> Yes, perhaps you are correct. Nevertheless, I responded to
> the post because it was listed in sci.life-extension and
> sci.med.nutrition, not on
> alt.whocareswhatweeatletsjusthavefunheresadonut!

Thank you very much for considering the idea. You'll note (all
those flames ago) that I said only "single most powerful
determining factor". Of course, for most people, one would
think that eating correctly will help prolong life to some
extent (barring accidents). The thing is, what is "correct"
nutrition, exactly? The regulars in this group are not all of
the same opinion, I think.

Your NG name is unambigous, certainly. But maybe it should be
shortened (a lá Homer Simpson) to "alt.mmm-donuts!"

Sara T.
-------
if you want to reply by e-mail, remove the 'dot gov' and the
'X A'

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow slenon rambled on about "Re: More
on Tofu and the Brain." Our champion de-medicalising in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>>And, anybody with your negative attitude should removed
>>themselves
>permanently from these health ngs. You are obviously lost.

>I believe you have made several threats to remove me. Like
>providing documentation of your supposed degrees; another
>promise you've defaulted.

What you have stated in this THREAD is that you don't give a
damn about prevention. Ergo, YOU are lost!

And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional epidemiology
from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
--
John Gohde, Patient Empowerment Advocate
http://home.naturalhealthperspective.com/empowerment.html
Email: Ngs@NaturalHealthPerspective.com
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com - Pioneering
de-medicalisation by handing back the power to the people,
encouraging self care and autonomy, and resisting the
categorization of life's problems as medical.

[Slenon]

gohde:
>What you have stated in this THREAD is that you don't give a
>damn about
prevention. Ergo, YOU are lost!
>And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional
>epidemiology from a
second rate institution to say so

Incorrect as ever, gohde. That is your interpretation of what
you think I say. Prevention deals with immunization, well
patient care, and one hell of a lot more than twisted new-age
impressions of nutrition poorly supported by articles copies
and pasted out of context. Perhaps you should have worked
toward that masters. It might have helped your comprehension
of the world as it is as opposed to the world as you see it.
--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Tintinet]

"Sara T." <saratee@XAtande.com.gov> wrote in message
news:<Xns9214D646E72FFPossiblyMaybePerhaps@204.127.36.1>...
> tintinet@altavista.com (tintinet) wrote in
> news:7610a557.0205200405.40056d9@posting.google.com:
>
> <snip>
> >> > If toast and jam is bad for my health, then I guess
> >> > I'll just live to 87.5 instead of 87.6. Big Deal! Five
> >> > out five of my parents and grandparents who made it to
> >> > 83 got alzheimers anyway. Incidentally, I doubt if any
> >> > except my Mother even HEARD of tofu.
> >> >
> >> > I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded
> >> > Acryamides!!!!
> >>
> >> Bravo! I love toast and jam too. For what it's worth, I
> >> have a sneaking suspicion that a proper choice of
> >> grandparents is _still_ the single most powerful
> >> determining factor in both extent and quality of life. In
> >> other words, it's still not up to you...
> >>
> <snip>
> >
> > Yes, perhaps you are correct. Nevertheless, I responded to
> > the post because it was listed in sci.life-extension and
> > sci.med.nutrition, not on
> > alt.whocareswhatweeatletsjusthavefunheresadonut!
>
> Thank you very much for considering the idea. You'll note
> (all those flames ago) that I said only "single most
> powerful determining factor". Of course, for most people,
> one would think that eating correctly will help prolong life
> to some extent (barring accidents). The thing is, what is
> "correct" nutrition, exactly? The regulars in this group are
> not all of the same opinion, I think.

Yes, indeed, soy is most controversial; however, I doubt many
of the "regulars" or irregulars, for that manner, would aver
toast, jam, and margarine are the best dietary choices for
optimizing health and longevity. People love donuts as well,
but usually realize they are not aiding their physical health
by eating them.
>
> Your NG name is unambigous, certainly. But maybe it should
> be shortened (a lá Homer Simpson) to "alt.mmm-donuts!"
>
> Sara T.
> -------
> if you want to reply by e-mail, remove the 'dot gov' and
> the 'X A'

Yes, and many

[Sara T.]

tintinet@altavista.com (tintinet) wrote in
news:7610a557.0205210354.70e6240e@posting.google.com:

> "Sara T." <saratee@XAtande.com.gov> wrote in message
> news:<Xns9214D646E72FFPossiblyMaybePerhaps@204.127.36.1>...
>> tintinet@altavista.com (tintinet) wrote in
>> news:7610a557.0205200405.40056d9@posting.google.com:
>>
>> <snip>
>> >> > I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded
>> >> > Acryamides!!!!
>> >>
>> >> Bravo! I love toast and jam too. For what it's worth, I
>> >> have a sneaking suspicion that a proper choice of
>> >> grandparents is _still_ the single most powerful
>> >> determining factor in both extent and quality of life.
>> >> In other words, it's still not up to you...
>> >>
>> <snip>
>> >
>> > Yes, perhaps you are correct. Nevertheless, I responded
>> > to the post because it was listed in sci.life-extension
>> > and sci.med.nutrition, not on
>> > alt.whocareswhatweeatletsjusthavefunheresadonut!
>>
>> Thank you very much for considering the idea. You'll note
>> (all those flames ago) that I said only "single most
>> powerful determining factor". Of course, for most people,
>> one would think that eating correctly will help prolong
>> life to some extent (barring accidents). The thing is, what
>> is "correct" nutrition, exactly? The regulars in this group
>> are not all of the same opinion, I think.
>
> Yes, indeed, soy is most controversial; however, I doubt
> many of the "regulars" or irregulars, for that manner, would
> aver toast, jam, and margarine are the best dietary choices
> for optimizing health and longevity. People love donuts as
> well, but usually realize they are not aiding their physical
> health by eating them.

Of course toast, jam & marg or butter are *not* the
cornerstones of a healthy diet. Nor are donuts much good for
you at all -- who would seriously contest that? (They used to
think that donuts (and fried foods) were healthy in the 19th
century, when the conditions of life were very different, and
the #1 priority in eating for most people was to get enough
calories. I believe the mean life span was between 40 and 50
then, though rising.)

Notwithstanding, those traditional foods are good-tasting
things (they suit millions upon millions of people). I think
that, taken in moderation and with common sense, the
psychological benefit of indulging in them on occasion far
outweighs the harm that ingesting them will do, in accordance
with the old proverb, "A little of what you fancy does you
good". Also, there are the additional values of conviviality &
comensality to consider. Being less rigid about one's diet
makes those things a bit easier. Perhaps those things too are
life-extending; certainly they do something to improve the
quality of life.

>>
>> Your NG name is unambiguous, certainly. But maybe it should
>> be shortened (a lá Homer Simpson) to "alt.mmm-donuts!"
>
> Yes, and many
>

Unfortunately, that part of your reply was truncated (at least
on my server).

As you said before,though, certainly the business of
sci.life-extension or sci.med.nutrition is *not* comparing
donut manufacturers or posting French toast recipes. But
perhaps our part of this thread has supplied a tiny bit of
perspective, in much the same way as alt.food.vegan is
occasionally invaded by carnivores (some of whom are mainstays
in sci.med.nutrition).

If there were an alt.mmm-donuts, devoted to traditional,
unwholesome but good-tasting foods, perhaps it too would be
invaded from time to time by posters reminding people how
unhealthy the whole concept was.
--
Sara T.
--------
if you want to reply by e-mail, remove the 'dot gov' and the
'X A'

[Thomas Car]

Hi, The bad news about Soy started long ago from unreliable
sources. But like Bolero it just keeps on coming, getting
imperceptably louder every year. The attatched news story is
hot off the Reuter's wire. It implicates Genistein in immune
malfunction and thymic shrinking. The loss of the thymus is
the leading candidate in the loss of immune fuction in the
elderly and could very well be an aging program that
quarantees death at around 100 or so years. Thomas

Soy formula component impairs immune function in animal model

Last Updated: 2002-05-20 17:00:22 -0400 (Reuters Health)

By Anthony J. Brown, MD

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - When given to laboratory animals,
genistein, a phytoestrogen found in soy-based infant formulas,
reduces thymic weight and impairs immune function, according
to a report published in the May 28th issue of Proceedings of
the National Academy of Sciences.

"Estrogens are known to decrease thymic size and impair immune
function if given in high levels," study author Paul S. Cooke,
from the University of Illinois at Urbana, told Reuters
Health. "But this is the first time anyone has shown that the
phytoestrogen genistein can also do this," he added.

Dr. Cooke's team administered genistein, by subcutaneous
injection, to adult ovariectomized mice.

The researchers found that genistein injection led to
reductions in thymic weight of up to 80%. This was associated
with an 86% reduction in thymocyte numbers and a doubling of
the apoptotic rate, suggesting that increased apoptosis was
the mechanism involved.

Genistein treatment was also associated with a reduction in
CD4+ and CD8+ T cells. Furthermore, injection of the agent
resulted in suppression of humoral immunity.

"Initially, we were criticized for injecting the genistein,"
Dr. Cooke noted. "So we decided to actually feed the animals
genistein in amounts targeted to reach serum levels
typically found in human infants," he added. "Even with this
route of administration, we still saw dramatic reductions in
thymic size."

"We are obviously concerned that genistein may have harmful
effects in humans," Dr. Cooke said. "But you have to be
careful when you extrapolate findings from animal studies
and I'm certainly not suggesting that there is a human
risk," he added.

"Epidemiologic studies have yielded conflicting results on
the effects of soy-based formulas," Dr. Cooke noted. "While
some older reports have suggested that soy formula use does
impair immune function, some recent, seemingly well-designed,
studies conducted by the soy industry provide no evidence of
a link," he added.

Proc Natl Acad Sci 2002;99:7616-7621

[Jesson]

"Thomas Carter" <tcarter2@elp.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a7b55247.0205211447.718ab80f@posting.google.com...
> Hi, The bad news about Soy started long ago from unreliable
> sources. But like Bolero it just keeps on coming, getting
> imperceptably louder every year. The attatched news story is
> hot off the Reuter's wire. It implicates Genistein in immune
> malfunction and thymic shrinking. The loss of the thymus is
> the leading candidate in the loss of immune fuction in the
> elderly and could very well be an aging program that
> quarantees death at around 100 or so years. Thomas
>

shit!! and the insurance companies think people
living longer is TERRIBLE news!!!!!!!

jan

>
> Soy formula component impairs immune function in
> animal model
>
> Last Updated: 2002-05-20 17:00:22 -0400 (Reuters Health)
>
> By Anthony J. Brown, MD
>
> NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - When given to laboratory
> animals, genistein, a phytoestrogen found in soy-based
> infant formulas, reduces thymic weight and impairs immune
> function, according to a report published in the May 28th
> issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
>
> "Estrogens are known to decrease thymic size and impair
> immune function if given in high levels," study author Paul
> S. Cooke, from the University of Illinois at Urbana, told
> Reuters Health. "But this is the first time anyone has
> shown that the phytoestrogen genistein can also do this,"
> he added.
>
> Dr. Cooke's team administered genistein, by subcutaneous
> injection, to adult ovariectomized mice.
>
> The researchers found that genistein injection led to
> reductions in thymic weight of up to 80%. This was
> associated with an 86% reduction in thymocyte numbers and a
> doubling of the apoptotic rate, suggesting that increased
> apoptosis was the mechanism involved.
>
> Genistein treatment was also associated with a reduction in
> CD4+ and CD8+ T cells. Furthermore, injection of the agent
> resulted in suppression of humoral immunity.
>
> "Initially, we were criticized for injecting the genistein,"
> Dr. Cooke noted. "So we decided to actually feed the animals
> genistein in amounts targeted to reach serum levels
> typically found in human infants," he added. "Even with this
> route of administration, we still saw dramatic reductions in
> thymic size."
>
> "We are obviously concerned that genistein may have harmful
> effects in humans," Dr. Cooke said. "But you have to be
> careful when you extrapolate findings from animal studies
> and I'm certainly not suggesting that there is a human
> risk," he added.
>
> "Epidemiologic studies have yielded conflicting results on
> the effects of soy-based formulas," Dr. Cooke noted. "While
> some older reports have suggested that soy formula use does
> impair immune function, some recent, seemingly
> well-designed, studies conducted by the soy industry provide
> no evidence of a link," he added.
>
> Proc Natl Acad Sci 2002;99:7616-7621

[Jon Larson]

> > >
> > > Sounds like a fatal recipe. The tofu scrambles one's
> > > brain while the margarine fries one's blood vessels and
> > > cell membranes and the toast and jam glycate one's
> > > proteins, not to mention the acrylamides!
> >
> > How do you know tofu is so bad for me? Maybe the problem
> > is caused by eating LOTS of tofu that has LOTS of aluminum
> > in it? Besides, if you want to get to eternal life in
> > heaven, you'll probably have to make a few sacrifices at
> > this level.
> >
> > I ALREADY suggested a MODERATE amount of margarine.
> >
> > If toast and jam is bad for my health, then I guess I'll
> > just live to
> > 87.5 instead of 87.6. Big Deal! Five out five of my
> > parents and grandparents who made it to 83 got
> > alzheimers anyway. Incidentally, I doubt if any except
> > my Mother even HEARD of tofu.
> >
> > I refuse to live my life in fear of the dreaded
> > Acryamides!!!!
>
> I agree. We all need to lighten up a bit here. My post was a
> bit a of a jest, although I know such things can be
> difficult to judge when read as apposed to heard in
> conversation.

I just checked my email:

From: molab@ww.co.nz (R Molony) To :
jon_larson811@hotmail.com (Jon Larson) Subject : Re:
More on Tofu and the Brain Date : Fri, 20 May 2005
23:59:54 GMT

The association of brain problems with tofu may in
fact be associated with aluminium. Aluminium sulphate
is frequently illicitly used instead of calciu
chloride as a coagulant when making tofu. It gives a
firmer curd.

Bob Molony

Thanks for the info. [I've always bought the firm, but it
really makes no difference once it's fryed up the way I do. --
I'm going to switch. Thanks again!]

I wonder if that was included in the web page I cited. [I'm
too lazy to read it that carefully.]

[Jesus Chri]

Verily, verily, jon_larson811@hotmail.com (Jon Larson)
sayeth unto us:

> http://www.vegsource.com/harris/brain_aging.htm
> http://www.mercola.com/2000/sept/17/soy_brain.htm http://ww-
> w.abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/2020_000609_soy_feature.html ht-
> tp://allergies.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http:/-
> /www.westo naprice.org/soy%5Falert.htm
>
> [Nada from PETA, IDA, Animal Agenda.]

Of course not, that would imply they are wrong. They cannot be
wrong, not even in the slightest.

--
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|/|/ \ | | ()(_) |
| | \__ /\ | | /\ | |___| |___/ | | /\ | / / \ | | / \ | |
| | |\| \ _ |/ / \ _ |
\_|/\___//(__/ \__/\_//(__/ \___/ | |/| \_/\_/\//(__/(_/
/| \| FALSE CHRISTIANS (failed the Luke 6:30 test):
Pastor Frank
M. Clark

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