Action is needed to stop "disease mongering"

[John 'The]

http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/886?lookupType=volpa-
ge&vol=324&fp=886&view=short Disease mongering can include the
ordinary processes or ailments of life classified as medical
problems; mild symptoms portrayed as portents of a serious
disease; personal or social problems seen as medical ones;
risks conceptualised as diseases; and disease prevalence
estimates framed to maximise the size of a medical problem.

A)Ordinary processes or ailments as medical problems: baldness

The medicalisation of baldness shows clearly the
transformation of the ordinary processes of life into medical
phenomena.

B)Mild symptoms as portents of serious disease: irritable
bowel syndrome

Irritable bowel syndrome has long been considered a common
functional disorder, and a "diagnosis of exclusion" covering a
range of symptom severity, yet it is currently experiencing
something of a global "makeover."

What for many people is a mild functional disorderrequiring
little more than reassurance about its benign natural courseis
currently being reframed as a serious disease attracting a
label and a drug, with all the associated harms and costs.

C)Personal or social problems as medical ones: social phobia

When Roche was promoting its antidepressant Aurorix
(moclobemide) as a valuable treatment for social phobia in
1997, its public relations company issued a press release,
picked up by some of the media, announcing that more than one
million Australians had an underdiagnosed psychiatric disorder
called social phobia.

All the media stories seemed to be part of a wider push to
change the common perception of shyness, from a personal
difficulty to a
psychiatric disorder.

The medicalisation of human distress seems to have no limits.

D)Risks conceptualised as diseases: osteoporosis

Like high blood pressure or raised cholesterol levels, the
medicalisation of reduced bone masswhich occurs as people
ageis an example of a risk factor being conceptualised as
a disease.

Osteoporosis remains a strong example of disease mongering
because the corporate role in changing the way populations
think about bone loss has been so extensive.

E)Disease prevalence estimates framed to maximise the size of
a medical problem: erectile dysfunction

Double page advertisements told Australians recently that 39%
of men who visit general practitioners have erection
problems.21 The advertisement featured an unhappy couple, who
looked to be in their 30s or 40s, on opposite sides of a
double bed, with the accompanying text: "Erection problems:
hard to talk about, easy to treat." As with much disease
mongering, the key strategy here was to make the condition
seem as widespread as possible.
--
John Gohde, Encouraging people to look after themselves.
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering de-medicalisation
by handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care
and autonomy, resisting the categorisation of life's problem
as medical, and promoting the de-professionalisation of
primary care, is no longer a radical agenda.

[Jrs57]

Many formerly "shy" people have gone through years of
psychological pain and years of expensive and useless
"psychotherapy", only to find virtually complete relief in the
right antidepressant at the right dosage. If you are
comfortable calling that "disease mongering" then I'm
comfortable calling you an idiot. "John 'the Man"
<DeMan[43]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0gd5cuov1959nn6qhv39kvv2jck28if3o2@4ax.com...
>
http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/886?lookupType=volpa-
ge&vol=324&fp=8 86&view=short
> Disease mongering can include the ordinary processes or
> ailments of life classified as medical problems; mild
> symptoms portrayed as portents of a serious disease;
> personal or social problems seen as medical ones; risks
> conceptualised as diseases; and disease prevalence estimates
> framed to maximise the size of a medical problem.
>
> A)Ordinary processes or ailments as medical problems:
> baldness
>
> The medicalisation of baldness shows clearly the
> transformation of the ordinary processes of life into
> medical phenomena.
>
> B)Mild symptoms as portents of serious disease: irritable
> bowel syndrome
>
> Irritable bowel syndrome has long been considered a common
> functional disorder, and a "diagnosis of exclusion" covering
> a range of symptom severity, yet it is currently
> experiencing something of a global "makeover."
>
> What for many people is a mild functional disorderrequiring
> little more than reassurance about its benign natural
> courseis currently being reframed as a serious disease
> attracting a label and a drug, with all the associated harms
> and costs.
>
> C)Personal or social problems as medical ones: social phobia
>
> When Roche was promoting its antidepressant Aurorix
> (moclobemide) as a valuable treatment for social phobia in
> 1997, its public relations company issued a press release,
> picked up by some of the media, announcing that more than
> one million Australians had an underdiagnosed psychiatric
> disorder called social phobia.
>
> All the media stories seemed to be part of a wider push to
> change the common perception of shyness, from a personal
> difficulty to a
> psychiatric disorder.
>
> The medicalisation of human distress seems to have no
> limits.
>
> D)Risks conceptualised as diseases: osteoporosis
>
> Like high blood pressure or raised cholesterol levels, the
> medicalisation of reduced bone masswhich occurs as people
> ageis an example of a risk factor being conceptualised as a
> disease.
>
> Osteoporosis remains a strong example of disease mongering
> because the corporate role in changing the way populations
> think about bone loss has been so extensive.
>
> E)Disease prevalence estimates framed to maximise the size
> of a medical problem: erectile dysfunction
>
> Double page advertisements told Australians recently that
> 39% of men who visit general practitioners have erection
> problems.21 The advertisement featured an unhappy couple,
> who looked to be in their 30s or 40s, on opposite sides of a
> double bed, with the accompanying text: "Erection problems:
> hard to talk about, easy to treat." As with much disease
> mongering, the key strategy here was to make the condition
> seem as widespread as possible.
> --
> John Gohde, Encouraging people to look after themselves.
> www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering
> de-medicalisation by handing back the power to the people,
> encouraging self care and autonomy, resisting the
> categorisation of life's problem as medical, and promoting
> the de-professionalisation of primary care, is no longer a
> radical agenda.

[Jamie]

John 'the Man wrote:
>
> B)Mild symptoms as portents of serious disease: irritable
> bowel syndrome
>
> What for many people is a mild functional disorder

What this doesn't say is that while for many the symptoms of
IBS are mild, for others the symptoms are extremely severe.

How about being in so much pain that you (variously, at
different times) pass out from the severity of it; need
pethidine to control it; are taken to the Emergency Room and
are told you're having a miscarriage; are told you probably
have an ectopic pregnancy; are taken to the ER by ambulance
and are prepped for an appendectomy, only for the consultant
to stop you being taken to the operating room because he
realises there's nothing wrong with your appendix?

I don't suggest that IBS symptoms are portents of serious
disease (although the same symptoms can signal crohns or
colitis, so should always be taken seriously), but by anyone's
standard, does that sound like "mild symptoms" or "a mild
functional disorder"?

Jamie

[Howard McC]

In article <0gd5cuov1959nn6qhv39kvv2jck28if3o2@4ax.com>, John
'the Man <DeMan[43]@hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/886?lookupType=vol-
> page&vol=324&fp=886 &view=short Disease mongering can
> include the ordinary processes or ailments of life
> classified as medical problems; mild symptoms portrayed as
> portents of a serious disease; personal or social problems
> seen as medical ones; risks conceptualised as diseases; and
> disease prevalence estimates framed to maximise the size of
> a medical problem.

Interesting post. As I was reading it, I was thinking of
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Fibromyalgia. Sometimes, I
guess, you have to put a label on something to satisfy the
patient due to the widespread lay belief that you have to have
a name for something before you can treat it.

HMc

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow Howard McCollister rambled on
about "Re: Action is needed to stop "disease mongering"."
Our champion de-medicalising in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
thusly ...

>Interesting post. As I was reading it, I was thinking of
>Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Fibromyalgia. Sometimes, I
>guess, you have to put a label on something to satisfy the
>patient due to the widespread lay belief that you have to
>have a name for something before you can treat it.

I did *not* author this article.

What it does is illustrate that other responsible third
parties have been thinking along the same lines, that I have,
for quite a few years. A search of Medline will reveal that
quite a few publications besides BMJ have published similar
articles. And, of course, there have been books written on the
subject too.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was recently discussed in detail on
smn by MartyB and others. CFS and Fibromyalgia (which I
believe is now the new term for CFS) would indeed be classic
examples of Health Conditions which would be more
appropriately treated as normal vicissitudes of life than as a
disease, IMHO.

Either way you look at it, you are going to make
somebody mad. :-(
--
John Gohde, Encouraging people to look after themselves.
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering de-medicalisation
by handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care
and autonomy, resisting the categorisation of life's problem
as medical, and promoting the de-professionalisation of
primary care, is no longer a radical agenda. http://bmj.com/c-
gi/content/full/324/7342/859?view=full&pmid=11950716#B10

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow jrs57 rambled on about "Re:
Action is needed to stop "disease mongering." Our champion
de-medicalising in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>Many formerly "shy" people have gone through years of
>psychological pain and years of expensive and useless
>"psychotherapy", only to find virtually complete relief in
>the right antidepressant at the right dosage. If you are
>comfortable calling that "disease mongering" then I'm
>comfortable calling you an idiot.

I am comfortable in stating that you have one negative
attitude.

I am comfortable in stating that one case does *not* make the
universe. Beyond that, I have no interest in discussing
psychological issues at this point and time. :-)

But, eventually I will once I finish up my re-write of
nutritional supplements on my website. I should get into some
more psychological issues, which I called *attitude*, near the
end of this year.
--
John Gohde, Encouraging people to look after themselves.
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering de-medicalisation
by handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care
and autonomy, resisting the categorisation of life's problem
as medical, and promoting the de-professionalisation of
primary care, is no longer a radical agenda. http://bmj.com/c-
gi/content/full/324/7342/859?view=full&pmid=11950716#B10

[Mark Doran]

"John 'the Man" <DeMan[44]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cit5cuseqbj7saaf28tttv5ojhq78mhaoc@

> I have no interest in discussing psychological issues at
> this point and time.

Well, ain't that a surprise...?

> I should get into some more psychological issues, which I
> called *attitude*, near the end of this year.

By 'the end of this year' you'll be incarcerated, at the
very least...

M.

[Slenon]

Gohde displays lack of information and lack of understanding:
>CFS and Fibromyalgia (which I believe is now the new term for
>CFS) would
indeed be classic examples of HealthConditions which
would be more
>appropriately treated as normal vicissitudes of life than as
>a disease,
IMHO.

Obviously, you do not suffer from these syndromes or other
such vicissitudes as osteoporosis. If a diagnosis and
medication can be used to prevent the physical debilitation
caused by progressive bone loss, then it is worth the label
and the treatment. If a cure were available for fibromyalgia,
thousands would scramble to wait in line.

Visicissitudes? Man I want to be in the ER when they bring
your failing corpus in with something that a physician could
have diagnosed and treated had you not been to much in love
with your own idea of intelligence to realize that you were in
need of help. Intractable pain from compressed nerves? Naw,
John, that MVA- caused pain is just a vicissitude. You don't
need a diagnosis or treatment.

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow JEDilworth rambled on about
"Action is needed to stop "disease mongering." Our champion
de-medicalising in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/886?lookupType=vol-
>page&vol=324&fp=886&view=short Disease mongering can include
>the ordinary processes or ailments of life classified as
>medical problems; mild symptoms portrayed as portents of a
>serious disease; personal or social problems seen as medical
>ones; risks conceptualised as diseases; and disease
>prevalence estimates framed to maximise the size of a
>medical problem.

>B)Mild symptoms as portents of serious disease: irritable
> bowel syndrome

>What for many people is a mild functional disorderrequiring
>little more than reassurance about its benign natural
>courseis currently being reframed as a serious disease
>attracting a label and a drug, with all the associated harms
>and costs.

Here is a classic example of a noted disease monger in
action. :--)

"JEDilworth" <bactitech@nospamhortonsbay.com> wrote in message
news:3CA792FA.44B730AB@nospamhortonsbay.com...

> According to this source ... it lists hemoglobin levels for
> males at 13.8 to 17.2. If you couldn't even make the 12.5 gm
> cutoff for donating blood, you're anemic. The above URL
> lists other reasons for anemia BESIDES iron deficiency.
> Again, how do you know you're dealing with an iron
> deficiency anemia????? Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
> Microbiology

Here we see the disease-monger Dilworth typically in action
medicalising a normal vicissitude of life. :--(

Intentionally, and repeatedly in many different posts and
threads, this Twit tries to turn my mild symptoms into the
portents of a serious disease. :--(

Naturally, of course, I am *not* the only victim of the
disease-monger Dilworth. :--( Somebody should tell this busy
body that a MT does *not* make a MD.

People, who would previously learn to deal with common
problems themselves now are being bullied into turning to
their doctors for help by the disease-monger Dilworth. :--(

This medicalisation of non-diseases by the disease-mongers has
gone too far and is harming society, preventing us from
accepting our humanity. It encourages us to see ourselves as
victims in search of a cure, perpetually suffering from one
ailment or another.

The disease-mongers have gnawed away at the public's
self-confidence to cope with the natural problems of life
without medical intervention.

And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional epidemiology
from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
--
John Gohde, Encouraging people to look after themselves.
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering de-medicalisation
by handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care
and autonomy, resisting the categorisation of life's problem
as medical, and promoting the de-professionalisation of
primary care, is no longer a radical agenda. http://bmj.com/c-
gi/content/full/324/7342/859?view=full&pmid=11950716

[John 'The]

The question raised is "Are we better off with less medicine,
not more?" People, who would previously learn to deal with
common problems themselves now are bullied into turning to
their doctors for help by the disease-mongers.

With inappropriate medicalisation alternative approaches -
emphasising the self-limiting or relatively benign natural
history of a problem, or the importance of personal coping
strategies - are played down or ignored. Death, pain and
sickness are just part of being human. Human cultures have
developed the means to help people cope with all three. Modern
medicine with inappropriate medicalisation is attempting to
destroyed these practices.

This medicalisation of non-diseases by the disease-mongers has
gone too far and is harming society, preventing us from
accepting our humanity. It encourages us to see ourselves as
victims in search of a cure, perpetually suffering from one
ailment or another.

The disease-mongers have gnawed away at the public's
self-confidence to cope with the natural problems of life
without medical intervention.

http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/886?lookupType=volpa-
ge&vol=324&fp=886&view=short Disease mongering can include the
ordinary processes or ailments of life classified as medical
problems; mild symptoms portrayed as portents of a serious
disease; personal or social problems seen as medical ones;
risks conceptualised as diseases; and disease prevalence
estimates framed to maximise the size of a medical problem.

A)Ordinary processes or ailments as medical problems: baldness

The medicalisation of baldness shows clearly the
transformation of the ordinary processes of life into medical
phenomena.

B)Mild symptoms as portents of serious disease: irritable
bowel syndrome

Irritable bowel syndrome has long been considered a common
functional disorder, and a "diagnosis of exclusion" covering a
range of symptom severity, yet it is currently experiencing
something of a global "makeover."

What for many people is a mild functional disorderrequiring
little more than reassurance about its benign natural courseis
currently being reframed as a serious disease attracting a
label and a drug, with all the associated harms and costs.

C)Personal or social problems as medical ones: social phobia

When Roche was promoting its antidepressant Aurorix
(moclobemide) as a valuable treatment for social phobia in
1997, its public relations company issued a press release,
picked up by some of the media, announcing that more than one
million Australians had an underdiagnosed psychiatric disorder
called social phobia.

All the media stories seemed to be part of a wider push to
change the common perception of shyness, from a personal
difficulty to a
psychiatric disorder.

The medicalisation of human distress seems to have no limits.

D)Risks conceptualised as diseases: osteoporosis

Like high blood pressure or raised cholesterol levels, the
medicalisation of reduced bone masswhich occurs as people
ageis an example of a risk factor being conceptualised as
a disease.

Osteoporosis remains a strong example of disease mongering
because the corporate role in changing the way populations
think about bone loss has been so extensive.

E)Disease prevalence estimates framed to maximise the size of
a medical problem: erectile dysfunction

Double page advertisements told Australians recently that 39%
of men who visit general practitioners have erection
problems.21 The advertisement featured an unhappy couple, who
looked to be in their 30s or 40s, on opposite sides of a
double bed, with the accompanying text: "Erection problems:
hard to talk about, easy to treat." As with much disease
mongering, the key strategy here was to make the condition
seem as widespread as possible.

And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional epidemiology
from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
--
John Gohde, Patients' Empowerment Advocate
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering de-medicalisation
by handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care
and autonomy, and resisting the categorisation of life's
problems as medical.

[Slenon]

gohde posts:
> Here we see the disease-monger Dilworth typically in action
> medicalising a
normal vicissitude of life. :--(

Actually, John, you pathetic little would-be man, what you
copied and mis-alluded to was the fact that Judy provided
normal ranges for hemoglobin after you so gleefully documented
how you scammed multiple donor sites into drawing you in
excess of recommended frequency guidelines. In short, the
anemic state she describes is one you personally created by
means of lies.

Who created the disease?

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Myjanee]

In article
<6pHw8.276511$K52.43497288@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>,
slenon@tampabay.rr.com says... .. snipped...
> Obviously, you do not suffer from these syndromes or other
> such vicissitudes as osteoporosis. If a diagnosis and
> medication can be used to prevent the physical debilitation
> caused by progressive bone loss, then it is worth the label
> and the treatment. If a cure were available for
> fibromyalgia, thousands would scramble to wait in line.
>
> Visicissitudes? Man I want to be in the ER when they bring
> your failing corpus in with something that a physician could
> have diagnosed and treated had you not been to much in love
> with your own idea of intelligence to realize that you were
> in need of help. Intractable pain from compressed nerves?
> Naw, John, that MVA- caused pain is just a vicissitude. You
> don't need a diagnosis or treatment.
>
> --
> Stev

I'm with you, Stev! It is interesting to note that of these
conditions which the writer nearly ridicules, most are
conditions which women tend to get far more often than do men.
Women are so often told that it is "all in your head" when a
simple antidepressant regimen or other treatment will end the
suffering.

I do not advocate popping pills for whatever ache or pain a
person may feel; part of being alive is to feel some pain. But
if severe or chronic pain can be treated, then it should be
treated. And i don't think that anyone who has ever watched a
relative's body dwindle away due to the effects of
osteoporosis would laugh this off as just a "risk" of getting
older. Why not treat it if we can?

jrs.. i like your answer. :) Always me, Janee

--
Eat to Live Light Walk to Live Light
http://www.myjanee.com/livelight/live.htm I make no money
from my site.

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow myJanee rambled on about "Re:
Action is needed to stop "disease mongering"." Our champion
de-medicalising in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>In article
><6pHw8.276511$K52.43497288@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>,
>slenon@tampabay.rr.com says... .. snipped...
>> Obviously, you do not suffer from these syndromes or other
>> such vicissitudes as osteoporosis. If a diagnosis and
>> medication can be used to prevent the physical debilitation
>> caused by progressive bone loss, then it is worth the label
>> and the treatment. If a cure were available for
>> fibromyalgia, thousands would scramble to wait in line.
>>
>> Visicissitudes? Man I want to be in the ER when they bring
>> your failing corpus in with something that a physician
>> could have diagnosed and treated had you not been to much
>> in love with your own idea of intelligence to realize that
>> you were in need of help. Intractable pain from compressed
>> nerves? Naw, John, that MVA- caused pain is just a
>> vicissitude. You don't need a diagnosis or treatment.
>>
>> --
>> Stev
>
>
>
>I'm with you, Stev! It is interesting to note that of these
>conditions which the writer nearly ridicules, most are
>conditions which women tend to get far more often than do
>men. Women are so often told that it is "all in your head"
>when a simple antidepressant regimen or other treatment will
>end the suffering.
>
>I do not advocate popping pills for whatever ache or pain a
>person may feel; part of being alive is to feel some pain.
>But if severe or chronic pain can be treated, then it should
>be treated. And i don't think that anyone who has ever
>watched a relative's body dwindle away due to the effects of
>osteoporosis would laugh this off as just a "risk" of getting
>older. Why not treat it if we can?

Obviously, you did not read the entire article.

In short, you are just another babbling idiot. :-(

And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional epidemiology
from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
--
John Gohde, Encouraging people to look after themselves.
www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering de-medicalisation
by handing back the power to the people, encouraging self care
and autonomy, resisting the categorisation of life's problem
as medical, and promoting the de-professionalisation of
primary care; is no longer a radical agenda. http://bmj.com/c-
gi/content/full/324/7342/859?view=full&pmid=11950716

[Slenon]

>I'm with you, Stev! It is interesting to note that of these
>conditions
which the writer nearly ridicules, most are conditions which
women tend to get >far more often than do men.

Janee, appreciate your input and viewpoint. I agree that these
are often conditions and syndromes with a greater prevalence
in females than males. Our prophet in his own mind has yet to
realize that he too will age and deteriorate, suffering those
conditions that might be diagnosed and treated by medication
and physicians but which will never be eliminated by voodoo
nutrition, twisted statistics, or new age hopeful thinking. He
seems to have some real hatred built up towards women based
upon his history of vulgarity and sexist remarks toward women
who dare challenge him on-line. His dislike of me is apparent.
I have yet to see his credentials or any sign of academic
achievement and that may be another reason he is so resentful
of anyone with professional education and licensure.

I'd rather not take more medication than necessary, but when
the condition is diagnosed and the med is availble to treat,
palliate, or cure, I'd much rather pop that pill than have
someone shake gourds and herbs over me. Sort of like South
Park rerun last night.

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Fred & Mic]

> Obviously, you did not read the entire article.
>
> In short, you are just another babbling idiot. :-(
>
> And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional
> epidemiology from a second rate institution to say so. :-)

Jealous of other people's educational achievements? Don't be.
The education you obviously got from reading the back of
cereal boxes seems to fit in with your idiotic ramblings
quite well.

> John Gohde, Encouraging people to let their freakin' teeth
> rot out of their heads

Yeah, a real stinkin' "pioneer".........

PLONK -- although you'll be your usual arrogant self & appear
on my screen again. How many names are we up to now?

Michele

[M Tools]

And so......... slenon tells the world that he/she is a drug
user and proud of it. "slenon" <slenon@tampabay.rr.com> wrote
in message
news:HKUx8.81146$nc.11780767@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> >I'm with you, Stev! It is interesting to note that of these
> >conditions
> which the writer nearly ridicules, most are conditions which
> women tend
to
> get >far more often than do men.
>
> Janee, appreciate your input and viewpoint. I agree that
> these are often conditions and syndromes with a greater
> prevalence in females than males. Our prophet in his own
> mind has yet to realize that he too will age and
> deteriorate, suffering those conditions that might be
> diagnosed and
treated
> by medication and physicians but which will never be
> eliminated by voodoo nutrition, twisted statistics, or new
> age hopeful thinking. He seems to have some real hatred
> built up towards women based upon his history of vulgarity
> and sexist remarks toward women who dare challenge him
> on-line. His dislike of me is apparent. I have yet to see
> his credentials or any sign of academic achievement and that
> may be another reason he is so resentful of anyone with
> professional education and licensure.
>
> I'd rather not take more medication than necessary, but when
> the condition is diagnosed and the med is availble to treat,
> palliate, or cure, I'd much rather pop that pill than have
> someone shake gourds and herbs over me.
Sort
> of like South Park rerun last night.
>
> --
> Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia
> ashes Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate
> bottom line is patients
not
> profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member slenon@tampabay.rr.com
> http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/index.html/slhomepage92k-
> word.htm
>

[Fred & Mic]

"slenon" <slenon@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HKUx8.81146$nc.11780767@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
> >I'm with you, Stev! It is interesting to note that of these
> >conditions
> which the writer nearly ridicules, most are conditions which
> women tend
to
> get >far more often than do men.
>
> Janee, appreciate your input and viewpoint. I agree that
> these are often conditions and syndromes with a greater
> prevalence in females than males. Our prophet in his own
> mind has yet to realize that he too will age and
> deteriorate, suffering those conditions that might be
> diagnosed and
treated
> by medication and physicians but which will never be
> eliminated by voodoo nutrition, twisted statistics, or new
> age hopeful thinking. He seems to have some real hatred
> built up towards women based upon his history of vulgarity
> and sexist remarks toward women who dare challenge him
> on-line.

Well, with poor oral hygiene & overwhelming ignorance, I doubt
women flock to our best example of a "woman repellent".
Obviously pisses him off to no end too.

> His dislike of me is apparent. I have yet to see his
> credentials or any sign of academic achievement

And you probably never will -- he threw out the cereal
boxes & matchbook covers that he received his "education"
from long ago.

Michele

[Stev_a--Ho]

michele bleats like a wounded rabbit when called to make
sense.

You'd be pathetic if you weren't such a hate-filled little
example of impotency and psychoses.

I will take the opinion of the British Journal of Medicine
theme issue on the medicalisation of human experience ("Too
much medicine?"), which included an article on non-diseases
(13 April 2002 (Volume 324, Issue 7342)
http://bmj.com/content/vol324/issue7342/ over yours any day.

Do the math, michele. Your pissing on your shoes, not mine.

"fred & michele" <healthyu@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:aa813v$lp6@dispatch.concentric.net...
>
> > Obviously, you did not read the entire article.
> >
> > In short, you are just another babbling idiot. :-(
> >
> > And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional
> > epidemiology from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
>
> Jealous of other people's educational achievements? Don't
> be. The education you obviously got from reading the back of
> cereal boxes seems to fit in with your idiotic ramblings
> quite well.
>
> > John Gohde, Encouraging people to let their freakin' teeth
> > rot out of their
heads
>
> Yeah, a real stinkin' "pioneer".........
>
> PLONK -- although you'll be your usual arrogant self &
> appear on my screen again. How many names are we up to now?
>
> Michele

[Slenon]

>And so......... slenon tells the world that he/she is a drug
>user and proud
of it.

Yep, better to treat hypertension with ACE's than to risk the
mess of arterial explosion. Wish it weren't necessary but glad
to live in an age where such meds are available.

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Jedilworth]

Yes, I think I've seen it quoted that 50% of first time heart
attacks end in death - high BP is nothing to mess around with.

Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology

slenon wrote:
>
> >And so......... slenon tells the world that he/she is a
> >drug user and proud
> of it.
>
> Yep, better to treat hypertension with ACE's than to risk
> the mess of arterial explosion. Wish it weren't necessary
> but glad to live in an age where such meds are available.

[Jedilworth]

Yes, I think I've seen it quoted that 50% of first time heart
attacks end in death - high BP is nothing to mess around with.

Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology

slenon wrote:
>
> >And so......... slenon tells the world that he/she is a
> >drug user and proud
> of it.
>
> Yep, better to treat hypertension with ACE's than to risk
> the mess of arterial explosion. Wish it weren't necessary
> but glad to live in an age where such meds are available.

[Fred & Mic]

I could've predicted the following from an asshole like Gohde.
He is too stupid to come up with anything intelligent, witty,
or even humorous, so he resorts to calling others impotent.
Funny, when I looked up "impotent", John's picture was there.

Michele "Stev_A--Hole_Lenon" <Stev_A--Hole_Lenon@vietnam.com>
wrote in message news:3ARx8.49749$QC1.3551679@bgtnsc04-news.o-
ps.worldnet.att.net...
> michele bleats like a wounded rabbit when called to
> make sense.
>
> You'd be pathetic if you weren't such a hate-filled little
> example of impotency and psychoses.
>
> I will take the opinion of the British Journal of Medicine
> theme issue on the medicalisation of human experience ("Too
> much medicine?"), which included an article on non-diseases
> (13 April 2002 (Volume 324, Issue
7342)
> http://bmj.com/content/vol324/issue7342/ over yours any day.
>
> Do the math, michele. Your pissing on your shoes, not mine.
>
>
> "fred & michele" <healthyu@concentric.net> wrote in message
> news:aa813v$lp6@dispatch.concentric.net...
> >
> > > Obviously, you did not read the entire article.
> > >
> > > In short, you are just another babbling idiot. :-(
> > >
> > > And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional
> > > epidemiology from a second rate institution to say
> > > so. :-)
> >
> > Jealous of other people's educational achievements? Don't
> > be. The education you obviously got from reading the back
> > of cereal boxes seems
to
> > fit in with your idiotic ramblings quite well.
> >
> > > John Gohde, Encouraging people to let their freakin'
> > > teeth rot out of their
> heads
> >
> > Yeah, a real stinkin' "pioneer".........
> >
> > PLONK -- although you'll be your usual arrogant self &
> > appear on my
screen
> > again. How many names are we up to now?
> >
> > Michele
> >
>

[Stev_a--Ho]

michele blathers:

"fred & michele" <healthyu@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:aa9gcn$l5g@dispatch.concentric.net...
> I could've predicted the following from an asshole like
> Gohde. He is too stupid to come up with anything
> intelligent, witty, or even humorous, so
he
> resorts to calling others impotent. Funny, when I looked up
> "impotent", John's picture was there.

:-)

michele the buffoon tries for effect and misses big time.

Most everything I wrote is a direct quote of what Stev has
written in his prior posts.

Your bias is showing. That is why you are in my Twit
Filter. :-)

[Slenon]

Gohde, goaded by another:
>Most everything I wrote is a direct quote of what Stev has
>written in his
prior posts.

Did you think it took us two days to figure that out, Johnny?
Please send me your preferred billing address for the use of
my material. And try to apply it a bit better. Your wide of
the mark too many times.

Now, how about some credentials?

--
Stev Still dancing in the Phil Zone & scattering Garcia ashes
Stev Lenon MT(ASCP) - In healthcare the ultimate bottom line
is patients not profit Save a cow, eat a PETA member
slenon@tampabay.rr.com http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/ind-
ex.html/slhomepage92kword.htm

[Mark Doran]

Hey, wanker: this *re-posted* bullshit is off-topic on
sci.med.nutrition. Your ISP has been told.

M.

"John 'the Man" <DeMan[49]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0ishcuoflaqc5hg1ddk95f7631vd5ltj21@4ax.com...
> The question raised is "Are we better off with less
> medicine, not more?" People, who would previously learn to
> deal with common problems themselves now are bullied into
> turning to their doctors for help by the disease-mongers.
>
> With inappropriate medicalisation alternative approaches -
> emphasising the self-limiting or relatively benign natural
> history of a problem, or the importance of personal coping
> strategies - are played down or ignored. Death, pain and
> sickness are just part of being human. Human cultures have
> developed the means to help people cope with all three.
> Modern medicine with inappropriate medicalisation is
> attempting to destroyed these practices.
>
> This medicalisation of non-diseases by the disease-mongers
> has gone too far and is harming society, preventing us from
> accepting our humanity. It encourages us to see ourselves as
> victims in search of a cure, perpetually suffering from one
> ailment or another.
>
> The disease-mongers have gnawed away at the public's
> self-confidence to cope with the natural problems of life
> without medical intervention.
>
>
http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/886?lookupType=volpa-
ge&vol=324&fp=8 86&view=short
> Disease mongering can include the ordinary processes or
> ailments of life classified as medical problems; mild
> symptoms portrayed as portents of a serious disease;
> personal or social problems seen as medical ones; risks
> conceptualised as diseases; and disease prevalence estimates
> framed to maximise the size of a medical problem.
>
> A)Ordinary processes or ailments as medical problems:
> baldness
>
> The medicalisation of baldness shows clearly the
> transformation of the ordinary processes of life into
> medical phenomena.
>
> B)Mild symptoms as portents of serious disease: irritable
> bowel syndrome
>
> Irritable bowel syndrome has long been considered a common
> functional disorder, and a "diagnosis of exclusion" covering
> a range of symptom severity, yet it is currently
> experiencing something of a global "makeover."
>
> What for many people is a mild functional disorderrequiring
> little more than reassurance about its benign natural
> courseis currently being reframed as a serious disease
> attracting a label and a drug, with all the associated harms
> and costs.
>
> C)Personal or social problems as medical ones: social phobia
>
> When Roche was promoting its antidepressant Aurorix
> (moclobemide) as a valuable treatment for social phobia in
> 1997, its public relations company issued a press release,
> picked up by some of the media, announcing that more than
> one million Australians had an underdiagnosed psychiatric
> disorder called social phobia.
>
> All the media stories seemed to be part of a wider push to
> change the common perception of shyness, from a personal
> difficulty to a
> psychiatric disorder.
>
> The medicalisation of human distress seems to have no
> limits.
>
> D)Risks conceptualised as diseases: osteoporosis
>
> Like high blood pressure or raised cholesterol levels, the
> medicalisation of reduced bone masswhich occurs as people
> ageis an example of a risk factor being conceptualised as a
> disease.
>
> Osteoporosis remains a strong example of disease mongering
> because the corporate role in changing the way populations
> think about bone loss has been so extensive.
>
> E)Disease prevalence estimates framed to maximise the size
> of a medical problem: erectile dysfunction
>
> Double page advertisements told Australians recently that
> 39% of men who visit general practitioners have erection
> problems.21 The advertisement featured an unhappy couple,
> who looked to be in their 30s or 40s, on opposite sides of a
> double bed, with the accompanying text: "Erection problems:
> hard to talk about, easy to treat." As with much disease
> mongering, the key strategy here was to make the condition
> seem as widespread as possible.
>
> And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional
> epidemiology from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
> --
> John Gohde, Patients' Empowerment Advocate
> www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering
> de-medicalisation by handing back the power to the people,
> encouraging self care and autonomy, and resisting the
> categorisation of life's problems as medical.

[Sir John]

mark bleats like a wounded rabbit when called to make sense.

"mark doran" <doran@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3cc97111$0$233$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
>
> Hey, wanker: this *re-posted* bullshit is off-topic on
> sci.med.nutrition. Your ISP has been told.

The content of this post is indeed different.

You don't know that because you did not read it.

All your posts are Off-Topic. That is why you are so confused.

> "John 'the Man" <DeMan[49]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0ishcuoflaqc5hg1ddk95f7631vd5ltj21@4ax.com...
> > The question raised is "Are we better off with less
> > medicine, not more?" People, who would previously learn to
> > deal with common problems themselves now are bullied into
> > turning to their doctors for help by the disease-mongers.
> >
> > With inappropriate medicalisation alternative approaches -
> > emphasising the self-limiting or relatively benign natural
> > history of a problem, or the importance of personal coping
> > strategies - are played down or ignored. Death, pain and
> > sickness are just part of being human. Human cultures have
> > developed the means to help people cope with all three.
> > Modern medicine with inappropriate medicalisation is
> > attempting to destroyed these practices.
> >
> > This medicalisation of non-diseases by the disease-mongers
> > has gone too far and is harming society, preventing us
> > from accepting our humanity. It encourages us to see
> > ourselves as victims in search of a cure, perpetually
> > suffering from one ailment or another.
> >
> > The disease-mongers have gnawed away at the public's
> > self-confidence to cope with the natural problems of life
> > without medical intervention.
> >
> >
>
http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/886?lookupType=volpa-
ge&vol=324&fp=8
> 86&view=short
> > Disease mongering can include the ordinary processes or
> > ailments of life classified as medical problems; mild
> > symptoms portrayed as portents of a serious disease;
> > personal or social problems seen as medical ones; risks
> > conceptualised as diseases; and disease prevalence
> > estimates framed to maximise the size of a medical
> > problem.
> >
> > A)Ordinary processes or ailments as medical problems:
> > baldness
> >
> > The medicalisation of baldness shows clearly the
> > transformation of the ordinary processes of life into
> > medical phenomena.
> >
> > B)Mild symptoms as portents of serious disease: irritable
> > bowel syndrome
> >
> > Irritable bowel syndrome has long been considered a common
> > functional disorder, and a "diagnosis of exclusion"
> > covering a range of symptom severity, yet it is currently
> > experiencing something of a global "makeover."
> >
> > What for many people is a mild functional
> > disorderrequiring little more than reassurance about its
> > benign natural courseis currently being reframed as a
> > serious disease attracting a label and a drug, with all
> > the associated harms and costs.
> >
> > C)Personal or social problems as medical ones: social
> > phobia
> >
> > When Roche was promoting its antidepressant Aurorix
> > (moclobemide) as a valuable treatment for social phobia in
> > 1997, its public relations company issued a press release,
> > picked up by some of the media, announcing that more than
> > one million Australians had an underdiagnosed psychiatric
> > disorder called social phobia.
> >
> > All the media stories seemed to be part of a wider push to
> > change the common perception of shyness, from a personal
> > difficulty to a
> > psychiatric disorder.
> >
> > The medicalisation of human distress seems to have no
> > limits.
> >
> > D)Risks conceptualised as diseases: osteoporosis
> >
> > Like high blood pressure or raised cholesterol levels, the
> > medicalisation of reduced bone masswhich occurs as people
> > ageis an example of a risk factor being conceptualised as
> > a disease.
> >
> > Osteoporosis remains a strong example of disease mongering
> > because the corporate role in changing the way populations
> > think about bone loss has been so extensive.
> >
> > E)Disease prevalence estimates framed to maximise the size
> > of a medical problem: erectile dysfunction
> >
> > Double page advertisements told Australians recently that
> > 39% of men who visit general practitioners have erection
> > problems.21 The advertisement featured an unhappy couple,
> > who looked to be in their 30s or 40s, on opposite sides of
> > a double bed, with the accompanying text: "Erection
> > problems: hard to talk about, easy to treat." As with much
> > disease mongering, the key strategy here was to make the
> > condition seem as widespread as possible.
> >
> > And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional
> > epidemiology from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
> > --
> > John Gohde, Patients' Empowerment Advocate
> > www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering
> > de-medicalisation by handing back the power to the people,
> > encouraging self care and autonomy, and resisting the
> > categorisation of life's problems as medical.

[Gym Bob]

LOL...like his ISP cares....LOL

"mark doran" <doran@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3cc97111$0$233$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
>
> Hey, wanker: this *re-posted* bullshit is off-topic on
> sci.med.nutrition. Your ISP has been told.
>
> M.
>
>
>
> "John 'the Man" <DeMan[49]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0ishcuoflaqc5hg1ddk95f7631vd5ltj21@4ax.com...
> > The question raised is "Are we better off with less
> > medicine, not more?" People, who would previously learn to
> > deal with common problems themselves now are bullied into
> > turning to their doctors for help by the disease-mongers.
> >
> > With inappropriate medicalisation alternative approaches -
> > emphasising the self-limiting or relatively benign natural
> > history of a problem, or the importance of personal coping
> > strategies - are played down or ignored. Death, pain and
> > sickness are just part of being human. Human cultures have
> > developed the means to help people cope with all three.
> > Modern medicine with inappropriate medicalisation is
> > attempting to destroyed these practices.
> >
> > This medicalisation of non-diseases by the disease-mongers
> > has gone too far and is harming society, preventing us
> > from accepting our humanity. It encourages us to see
> > ourselves as victims in search of a cure, perpetually
> > suffering from one ailment or another.
> >
> > The disease-mongers have gnawed away at the public's
> > self-confidence to cope with the natural problems of life
> > without medical intervention.
> >
> >
>
http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/324/7342/886?lookupType=volpa-
ge&vol=324&fp=8
> 86&view=short
> > Disease mongering can include the ordinary processes or
> > ailments of life classified as medical problems; mild
> > symptoms portrayed as portents of a serious disease;
> > personal or social problems seen as medical ones; risks
> > conceptualised as diseases; and disease prevalence
> > estimates framed to maximise the size of a medical
> > problem.
> >
> > A)Ordinary processes or ailments as medical problems:
> > baldness
> >
> > The medicalisation of baldness shows clearly the
> > transformation of the ordinary processes of life into
> > medical phenomena.
> >
> > B)Mild symptoms as portents of serious disease: irritable
> > bowel syndrome
> >
> > Irritable bowel syndrome has long been considered a common
> > functional disorder, and a "diagnosis of exclusion"
> > covering a range of symptom severity, yet it is currently
> > experiencing something of a global "makeover."
> >
> > What for many people is a mild functional
> > disorderrequiring little more than reassurance about its
> > benign natural courseis currently being reframed as a
> > serious disease attracting a label and a drug, with all
> > the associated harms and costs.
> >
> > C)Personal or social problems as medical ones: social
> > phobia
> >
> > When Roche was promoting its antidepressant Aurorix
> > (moclobemide) as a valuable treatment for social phobia in
> > 1997, its public relations company issued a press release,
> > picked up by some of the media, announcing that more than
> > one million Australians had an underdiagnosed psychiatric
> > disorder called social phobia.
> >
> > All the media stories seemed to be part of a wider push to
> > change the common perception of shyness, from a personal
> > difficulty to a
> > psychiatric disorder.
> >
> > The medicalisation of human distress seems to have no
> > limits.
> >
> > D)Risks conceptualised as diseases: osteoporosis
> >
> > Like high blood pressure or raised cholesterol levels, the
> > medicalisation of reduced bone masswhich occurs as people
> > ageis an example of a risk factor being conceptualised as
> > a disease.
> >
> > Osteoporosis remains a strong example of disease mongering
> > because the corporate role in changing the way populations
> > think about bone loss has been so extensive.
> >
> > E)Disease prevalence estimates framed to maximise the size
> > of a medical problem: erectile dysfunction
> >
> > Double page advertisements told Australians recently that
> > 39% of men who visit general practitioners have erection
> > problems.21 The advertisement featured an unhappy couple,
> > who looked to be in their 30s or 40s, on opposite sides of
> > a double bed, with the accompanying text: "Erection
> > problems: hard to talk about, easy to treat." As with much
> > disease mongering, the key strategy here was to make the
> > condition seem as widespread as possible.
> >
> > And, I don't need a Masters degree in nutritional
> > epidemiology from a second rate institution to say so. :-)
> > --
> > John Gohde, Patients' Empowerment Advocate
> > www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com. Pioneering
> > de-medicalisation by handing back the power to the people,
> > encouraging self care and autonomy, and resisting the
> > categorisation of life's problems as medical.