common cold: vitamin c and zinc do not affect

[Wuzzy]

In 4000 people followed around for one year those who intake
more vitamin c had no better protection against common cold.

They should repeat this for garlic..

1: Epidemiology 2002 Jan;13(1):38-44

Intake of vitamin C and zinc and risk of common cold: a
cohort study.

Takkouche B, Regueira-Mendez C, Garcia-Closas R, Figueiras A,
Gestal-Otero JJ.

2Research Unit, University Hospital of the Canary Islands, La
Laguna, Spain.

To examine whether intake of vitamin C and zinc is associated
with a decrease in the risk of a common cold, we analyzed
data from a cohort study carried out in a population of 4,272
faculty and staff from five Spanish universities.
Participants were 21-65 years of age, were full-time workers
at those universities, and did not have antecedents of asthma
or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Daily intake of
vitamin C and zinc was assessed at baseline by means of a
food frequency questionnaire of which the validity and
reproducibility were determined in a sample of the
population. Subjects were traced for 1 year to detect
episodes of common cold, the diagnosis of which was based on
symptoms and was validated by additional clinical signs. We
detected 1,667 cases of common cold in 79,240 person-weeks of
follow-up. Intake of vitamin C and zinc was not related to
the occurrence of common cold. Compared with the first
quartile of intake, women in the fourth quartile of vitamin C
intake showed an adjusted incidence rate ratio of 1.0 (95% CI
= 0.7-1.3), and for zinc intake this figure was 1.1 (95% CI =
0.8-1.5). The incidence rate ratios for men in the fourth
quartile were 1.1 (95% CI = 0.8-1.4) for vitamin C and 1.3
(95% CI = 0.9-1.8) for zinc.

PMID: 11805584 [PubMed - in process]

[Bryher]

Zinc acetate lozenges reduced the duration of cold symptoms,
especially cough and nasal discharge, and the severity of
symptoms in a recent randomized, double-blind,
placebo-controlled trial. Within 24 hours of developing a
cold, 48 patients were given either zinc acetate or placebo
lozenges and were asked to dissolve one lozenge every 2 to 3
waking hours for as long as they experienced symptoms. Each
zinc lozenge contained 12.8 mg of zinc. Results reveal that
the average duration of symptoms was 4.5 days in the zinc
group and 8.1 days in the placebo group. In addition, cold
symptoms were 50 percent less severe in the zinc group after 4
days of administration than in the control group. Dry mouth
and constipation were associated with zinc administration. The
researchers recommend that the short-term use of zinc acetate
lozenges may be of benefit to cold sufferers.

Source: Prasad AS, Fitzgerald JT, Bao B, Beck FWJ,
Chandrasekar PH. Duration of symptoms and plasma
cytokine levels in patients with the common cold
treated with zinc acetate. A randomized,
double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Ann Intern
Med. 2000;133(4):245-252.

"Wuzzy" <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d996c21a.0202022019.5b1c16b4@posting.google.com...
> In 4000 people followed around for one year those who intake
> more vitamin
c
> had no better protection against common cold.
>
> They should repeat this for garlic..
>
> 1: Epidemiology 2002 Jan;13(1):38-44
>
> Intake of vitamin C and zinc and risk of common cold: a
> cohort study.
>
> Takkouche B, Regueira-Mendez C, Garcia-Closas R, Figueiras
> A, Gestal-Otero
JJ.
>
> 2Research Unit, University Hospital of the Canary Islands,
> La Laguna,
Spain.
>
> To examine whether intake of vitamin C and zinc is
> associated with a
decrease in
> the risk of a common cold, we analyzed data from a cohort
> study carried
out in a
> population of 4,272 faculty and staff from five Spanish
> universities. Participants were 21-65 years of age, were
> full-time workers at those universities, and did not have
> antecedents of asthma or chronic
obstructive
> pulmonary disease. Daily intake of vitamin C and zinc was
> assessed at
baseline
> by means of a food frequency questionnaire of which the
> validity and reproducibility were determined in a sample of
> the population. Subjects
were
> traced for 1 year to detect episodes of common cold, the
> diagnosis of
which was
> based on symptoms and was validated by additional clinical
> signs. We
detected
> 1,667 cases of common cold in 79,240 person-weeks of
> follow-up. Intake of vitamin C and zinc was not related to
> the occurrence of common cold.
Compared
> with the first quartile of intake, women in the fourth
> quartile of vitamin
C
> intake showed an adjusted incidence rate ratio of 1.0 (95%
> CI = 0.7-1.3),
and
> for zinc intake this figure was 1.1 (95% CI = 0.8-1.5). The
> incidence rate ratios for men in the fourth quartile were
> 1.1 (95% CI = 0.8-1.4) for
vitamin C
> and 1.3 (95% CI = 0.9-1.8) for zinc.
>
> PMID: 11805584 [PubMed - in process]

[Wuzzy]

mypcos@hotmail.com (Wuzzy) wrote in message
news:<d996c21a.0202022019.5b1c16b4@posting.google.com>...
> In 4000 people followed around for one year those who intake
> more vitamin c had no better protection against common cold.
>
> They should repeat this for garlic..
>
> 1: Epidemiology 2002 Jan;13(1):38-44

For those of you that have downloaded the population dataset,
you'll note that hal20a is the code for the question "have you
had the common cold in the past 12 months"... you can run a
query correlating serum vitamin c with common cold...

garlic would be harder to verify i can't think of any marker,
you might get away with using the 24hr entry for garlic..

also they did skinfold thickness and sit-up capacity so
thats another unanswered question on sci.med.nutrition that
we can answer..

[Wuzzy]

Multiple Regression

X-variable: VitamiNC

Y-Variable: episodes in past 12 month: cold or flu

Method: Direct

Summary N R R-Square Std.Error

normal 1366 0.037 0.001428671 1.219797405 corrected
0.026392818 0.000696581

Equation

Coeff Conf. (±) Std.Error T P

Constant 1.63228 0.135426146 0.069033469 23.64 0 VitamiNC
-0.1133 0.159214282 0.081159469 -1.39 0.162652993

Analysis of variance Sum of Squares Degrees of Freedom Mean
Square F P Regression 2.903641535 1 2.903641535 1.951495661
0.162652993 Residue 2029.503386 1364 1.487905708 Total
2032.407028 1365 1.488942878

basically a "nonsignificant" negative correlation

[Matti Nark]

2 Feb 2002 20:19:51 -0800 in article
<d996c21a.0202022019.5b1c16b4@posting.google.com>
mypcos@hotmail.com (Wuzzy) wrote:

>In 4000 people followed around for one year those who intake
>more vitamin c had no better protection against common cold.
>
I think that most studies about the vitamin C and the
incidence of common cold have found that in general population
vitamin C has little or no effect on the incidence of common
cold (for example Hemilä et al
[1], Douglas et al [3)]. However, reductions in incidence have
been observed in specific groups of people (Hemilä [9,12]).
Also, vitamin C seems to reduce slightly but significantly
the duration of the symptoms of common cold. This reduction
seems to be dose dependent: daily doses below 1 gram don't
seem to have effect, and one study found that 6 grams/d
reduced the duration of the symptoms more than 3 grams/d.
Apparently the supplementation may have to be continued as
long as the symptoms last, because recently Audera et al
[2] found no effect when vitamin C was taken only at onset
of a cold and for the following two days

References:

2: Hemila H, Kaprio J, Albanes D, Heinonen OP, Virtamo J.
Vitamin C, vitamin e, and Beta-carotene in relation to
common cold incidence in male smokers. Epidemiology. 2002
Jan;13(1):32-7. PMID: 11805583 [PubMed - in process] htt-
p://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&-
db=PubMed&list_uids=11805583&dopt=Abstract

3: Audera C, Patulny RV, Sander BH, Douglas RM. Mega-dose
vitamin C in treatment of the common cold: a randomised
controlled trial. Med J Aust. 2001 Oct 1;175(7):359-62.
PMID: 11700812 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www-
.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubM-
ed&list_uids=11700812&dopt=Abstract

4: Douglas RM, Chalker EB, Treacy B. Vitamin C for
preventing and treating the common cold. Cochrane
Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD000980. Review. PMID:
10796569 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.-
nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&lis-
t_uids=10796569&dopt=Abstract

5: Gorton HC, Jarvis K. The effectiveness of vitamin C in
preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced
respiratory infections. J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999
Oct;22(8):530-3. PMID: 10543583 [PubMed - indexed for
MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?c-
md=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10543583&dopt=Abstract

6: Hemila H, Douglas RM. Vitamin C and acute respiratory
infections. Int J Tuberc Lung Dis. 1999 Sep;3(9):756-61.
Review. PMID: 10488881 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] ht-
tp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve-
&db=PubMed&list_uids=10488881&dopt=Abstract

7: Hemila H. Vitamin C supplementation and common cold
symptoms: factors affecting the magnitude of the benefit.
Med Hypotheses. 1999 Feb;52(2):171-8. Review. PMID:
10340298 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.-
nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&lis-
t_uids=10340298&dopt=Abstract

8: Mossad SB. Treatment of the common cold. BMJ. 1998 Jul
4;317(7150):33-6. Review. No abstract available. PMID:
9651268 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nl-
m.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_u-
ids=9651268&dopt=Abstract
http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/317/7150/33

9: Hemila H. Vitamin C supplementation and the common
cold--was Linus Pauling right or wrong? Int J Vitam Nutr
Res. 1997;67(5):329-35. Review. PMID: 9350474 [PubMed -
indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez-
/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9350474&do-
pt=Abstract

10: Hemila H. Vitamin C intake and susceptibility to the
common cold. Br J Nutr. 1997 Jan;77(1):59-72. PMID:
9059230 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.n-
lm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list-
_uids=9059230&dopt=Abstract

11: Hemila H. Vitamin C supplementation and common cold
symptoms: problems with inaccurate reviews. Nutrition.
1996 Nov-Dec;12(11-12):804-9. Review. PMID: 8974108
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.g-
ov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=89-
74108&dopt=Abstract

12: Hemila H. Vitamin C, the placebo effect, and the common
cold: a case study of how preconceptions influence the
analysis of results. J Clin Epidemiol. 1996
Oct;49(10):1079-84; discussion 1085, 1087. PMID: 8826986
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.g-
ov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=88-
26986&dopt=Abstract

13: Hemila H. Vitamin C and common cold incidence: a review
of studies with subjects under heavy physical stress. Int
J Sports Med. 1996 Jul;17(5):379-83. PMID: 8858411
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.g-
ov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=88-
58411&dopt=Abstract

14: Hemila H, Herman ZS. Vitamin C and the common cold: a
retrospective analysis of Chalmers' review. J Am Coll
Nutr. 1995 Apr;14(2):116-23. PMID: 7790685 [PubMed -
indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez-
/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7790685&do-
pt=Abstract

15: Hemila H. Does vitamin C alleviate the symptoms of the
common cold?--a review of current evidence. Scand J
Infect Dis. 1994;26(1):1-6. Review. PMID: 8191227 [PubMed
- indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entre-
z/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8191227&do-
pt=Abstract

16: Hemila H. Vitamin C and the common cold. Br J Nutr. 1992
Jan;67(1):3-16. Review. PMID: 1547201 [PubMed - indexed
for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fc-
gi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1547201&dopt=Abstract

17: Carr AB, Einstein R, Lai LY, Martin NG, Starmer GA.
Vitamin C and the common cold: using identical twins as
controls. Med J Aust. 1981 Oct 17;2(8):411-2. PMID:
7033746 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nl-
m.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_u-
ids=7033746&dopt=Abstract

18: Baird IM, Hughes RE, Wilson HK, Davies JE, Howard AN. R
The effects of ascorbic acid and flavonoids on the
occurrence of symptoms normally associated with the common
cold. Am J Clin Nutr. 1979 Aug;32(8):1686-90. PMID: 463806
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.go-
v/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=4638-
06&dopt=Abstract

19: Carr AB, Einstein R, Lai LY, Martin NG, Starmer GA.
Vitamin C and the common cold: a second MZ Cotwin control
study. Acta Genet Med Gemellol (Roma). 1981;30(4):249-55.
PMID: 7048833 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.n-
cbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&-
list_uids=7048833&dopt=Abstract

20: Chalmers TC. Effects of ascorbic acid on the common cold.
An evaluation of the evidence. Am J Med. 1975
Apr;58(4):532-6. Review. PMID: 1092164 [PubMed - indexed
for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcg-
i?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1092164&dopt=Abstract

21: Karlowski TR, Chalmers TC, Frenkel LD, Kapikian AZ, Lewis
TL, Lynch JM. Ascorbic acid for the common cold. A
prophylactic and therapeutic trial. JAMA. 1975 Mar
10;231(10):1038-42. PMID: 163386 [PubMed - indexed for
MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cm-
d=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=163386&dopt=Abstract

22: Lewis TL, Karlowski TR, Kapikian AZ, Lynch JM, Shaffer
GW, George
DA. A controlled clinical trial of ascorbic acid for the
common cold. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1975 Sep 30;258:505-12. No
abstract available. PMID: 1106302 [PubMed - indexed for
MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cm-
d=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1106302&dopt=Abstract


-Matti Narkia

[John 'The]

"Matti Narkia" <mnng@surfeu.fi> wrote in message
news:mamc6uo15cuh8dggmuj482o6shcfd9q368@4ax.com...

> I think that most studies about the vitamin C and the
> incidence of common cold have found that in general
> population vitamin C has little or no effect on the
> incidence of common cold (for example Hemilä et al

My comments in my other post sent to you, today, apply.

My objective in replying to a Science Geek is to highlight the
differences between my style and yours.

You start off by making some inane beginning remarks and
then try to impress by drowning everyone with too many
citations. :-(

Clearly Science Geeks both on these science ngs and those
doing the actual research don't know how to interpret the
data. You guys don't know what you are looking at because you
don't personally use Vitamin C to prevent colds. In other
words, you guys are *not* familiar with the subject matter.

I went through your list of citations and stopped looking
after I got two hits.

Douglas RM, Chalker EB, Treacy B. Vitamin C for preventing and
treating the common cold.
http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/ab000980.htm Cochrane
Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD000980. Review. PMID: 10796569

"Objectives: The objective of this review was to answer the
following two questions: ...
(2) Does taking vitamin C in high doses at the onset of a cold
have a therapeutic effect?"

Objective 2 provides the scope that actually works. When
you test for this objective, Vitamin C will always be
found to work.

"Main results: ... However in trials that tested vitamin C
after cold symptoms occurred, there was some evidence that a
large dose produced greater benefits than lower doses."

This study went lame, however, when it came to actually
testing for objective 2. But, their conclusion did support
objective 2. :-)

The next citation gets the testing right. :-)

Gorton HC, Jarvis K. The effectiveness of vitamin C in
preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced
respiratory infections. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q-
uery.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10543583&dopt=Abs-
tract J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3.
PMID: 10543583

"METHOD: ... whereas those in the test population reporting
symptoms were treated with hourly doses of 1000 mg of Vitamin
C for the first 6 hours and then 3 times daily thereafter.."

This is precisely the CORRECT method for using Vitamin C to
prevent colds.

"CONCLUSION: Vitamin C in megadoses administered before or
after the appearance of cold and flu symptoms relieved and
prevented the symptoms in the test population compared with
the control group."

Correct application of knowledge will always result in correct
results. :-)

Once you got a full blown cold, however, Zinc lozenges are
more effective at relieving cold symptoms than Vitamin C is.

I, therefore, conclude that ALL Science Geeks are totally
hopeless at properly interpreting data and doing nutrition
research. You guys wouldn't recognize the truth, if it hit you
over the head with a hammer. You guys excel at getting lost in
the details. :-)
--
John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of
the biomedical model of natural health. Weighing in at 16
webpages, Nutrition (www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/)
is now with more documentation and sharper terminology than
ever before.

[Wuzzy]

Criticism against above is that vitamin c may only work for
stressed out people and ppl who are deficient in vitamin c..

[Wuzzy]

up capacity so thats another
> unanswered question on sci.med.nutrition that we can
> answer..

So many things to do, also the 24hr recall included questions
about breakfast lunch and dinner, i'm currently running tests
to see diurnal energy distribution as well as breakdown by
macronutrients and coffee and tea..

DRPMNC Meal name code

Meal name code See note

01 Breakfast 02 Brunch 03 Lunch 04 Snack/beverage 05
Dinner/supper 06 Infant feeding 07 Extended consumption 08
Other

[John 'The]

x-no-archive: yes

Snobs be gone!

Once upon a time, our fellow Matti Narkia rambled on about
"Re: common cold: vitamin c and zinc do not affect." Our
champion being bored in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>Gorton HC, Jarvis K. The effectiveness of vitamin C in
>preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced
>respiratory infections. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q-
>uery.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10543583&dopt=Abs-
>tract J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3.
>PMID: 10543583

>"METHOD: ... whereas those in the test population reporting
>symptoms were treated with hourly doses of 1000 mg of Vitamin
>C for the first 6 hours and then 3 times daily thereafter.."

>This is precisely the CORRECT method for using Vitamin C to
>prevent colds.

One more thing Matti,

Thanks for doing the legwork finding a citation that would
make a fine addition to my website. :-)

Too, bad you don't possess the wisdom to recognize a gem
when you see
it.
--
John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of
the biomedical model of natural health. Weighing in at 16
webpages, Nutrition (www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/)
is now with more documentation and sharper terminology than
ever before.

[Cruiser]

Taking vitamin C in vitamin form, as opposed to drinking lots
of orange juice or eating many oranges, may be helpful, but
consuming the fruit or juice in quantity may be counter
productive, since Oranges and their juice have a poor
arginine/lysine balance.

Thus, you would be providing the virus with its favourite food
source, arginine, without sufficient lysine to compensate,
which would result in the promotion of viral reproduction, and
make the cold worse.

Cruiser

"John 'the Man'" <DeMan@JustSayNo.com> wrote in message
news:58tc6ugedklhgkfh7tfu06d9l9f9h1kn6e@4ax.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Snobs be gone!
>
> Once upon a time, our fellow Matti Narkia rambled on
> about "Re: common cold: vitamin c and zinc do not
> affect." Our champion being bored in sci.med.nutrition
> retorts, thusly ...
>
> >Gorton HC, Jarvis K. The effectiveness of vitamin C in
> >preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced
> >respiratory infections.
>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&d-
>b=PubMed&list_u
ids=10543583&dopt=Abstract
> >J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3. PMID:
> >10543583
>
> >"METHOD: ... whereas those in the test population reporting
> >symptoms were treated with hourly doses of 1000 mg of
> >Vitamin C for the first 6 hours and then 3 times daily
> >thereafter.."
>
> >This is precisely the CORRECT method for using Vitamin C to
> >prevent colds.
>
> One more thing Matti,
>
> Thanks for doing the legwork finding a citation that would
> make a fine addition to my website. :-)
>
> Too, bad you don't possess the wisdom to recognize a gem
> when you see
> it.
> --
> John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a
> Science!
>
> The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of
> the biomedical model of natural health. Weighing in at 16
> webpages, Nutrition (www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/)
> is now with more documentation and sharper terminology than
> ever before.

[David]

Six grams a day? Try 100-200 grams in the form of sodium
ascorbate per day. That's how much Klenner, Cathcart, etc.
claim is necessary to treat a viral infection.

DB

[Steve Harr]

"David" <wired123@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:iMfa8.2180$kB3.697169963@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Six grams a day? Try 100-200 grams in the form of sodium
> ascorbate per
day.
> That's how much Klenner, Cathcart, etc. claim is necessary
> to treat a
viral
> infection.

COMMENT:

Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally
tried it. Good luck.

It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody who
says they took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days with no
side effects, no matter how sick they were and with what, is
either a goddamned liar, or else somebody who has no idea of
what's going on with their rear end.

And yes, I think that includes Linus Pauling. I think that on
this matter he was incapable of finding his rear end with both
hands, in fact. Cathcart, too.

SBH

--
I welcome Email from strangers with the minimal cleverness to
fix my address (it's an open-book test). I strongly recommend
recipients of unsolicited bulk Email ad spam use
"http://combat.uxn.com" to get the true corporate name of the
last ISP address on the viewsource header, then forward
message & headers to "abuse@[offendingISP]."

[David]

Steve Harris wrote:

> "David" <wired123@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:iMfa8.2180$kB3.697169963@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> Six grams a day? Try 100-200 grams in the form of sodium
>> ascorbate per
> day.
>> That's how much Klenner, Cathcart, etc. claim is necessary
>> to treat a
> viral
>> infection.
>
> COMMENT:
>
> Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally
> tried it. Good luck.
>
> It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody
> who says they took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days
> with no side effects, no matter how sick they were and with
> what, is either a goddamned liar, or else somebody who has
> no idea of what's going on with their rear end.
>
> And yes, I think that includes Linus Pauling. I think that
> on this matter he was incapable of finding his rear end with
> both hands, in fact. Cathcart, too.
>
> SBH
>
> --
> I welcome Email from strangers with the minimal cleverness
> to fix my address (it's an open-book test). I strongly
> recommend recipients of unsolicited bulk Email ad spam use
> "http://combat.uxn.com" to get the true corporate name of
> the last ISP address on the viewsource header, then forward
> message & headers to "abuse@[offendingISP]."

Well, they say you should titrate the dosage based on bowel
tolerance. Supposedly it goes up during infection. And I
don't make recomendations. Even most doctors aren't qualified
to do that.

DB

[David]

Martin Banschbach wrote:

> "Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote
> in message news:<a4c8sq$sgg$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>...
>> "David" <wired123@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:iMfa8-
>> .2180$kB3.697169963@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> > Six grams a day? Try 100-200 grams in the form of sodium
>> > ascorbate per
>> day.
>> > That's how much Klenner, Cathcart, etc. claim is
>> > necessary to treat a
>> viral
>> > infection.
>>
>> COMMENT:
>>
>> Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally
>> tried it. Good luck.
>>
>> It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody
>> who says they took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days
>> with no side effects, no matter how sick they were and with
>> what, is either a goddamned liar, or else somebody who has
>> no idea of what's going on with their rear end.
>>
>> And yes, I think that includes Linus Pauling. I think that
>> on this matter he was incapable of finding his rear end
>> with both hands, in fact. Cathcart, too.
>>
>> SBH
>
> Right on the money Steve. If you want to spend all day on
> the pot try taking enough C to completely saturate gut
> absorption and then have fun with the "runs" all day.
>
> Pauling at least had enough nerve cells left to say back off
> when you reach the diarrhea stage. Toward the end though he
> may not have had enough mental function left to follow his
> own advice, he was convinced that high dose C would cure his
> prostate cancer. It didn't and it finally got him.
>
> But if I make it to 92, I may not care how I do it either
> but telling everyone else to do what I do is just plain
> crazy (if you ask me).
>
> No animal that still forms C would have ever done to it's
> body what Pauling wanted us to do all of the time.

Dude, the theory is that infection proportionally increases
your bowel tolerance to ascorbate. And guess what? Vitamin C
can be injected IV too. Doh.

DB

[Martin Ban]

"Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote in
message news:<a4c8sq$sgg$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>...
> "David" <wired123@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:iMfa8.2180$kB3.697169963@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > Six grams a day? Try 100-200 grams in the form of sodium
> > ascorbate per
> day.
> > That's how much Klenner, Cathcart, etc. claim is necessary
> > to treat a
> viral
> > infection.
>
> COMMENT:
>
> Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally
> tried it. Good luck.
>
> It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody
> who says they took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days
> with no side effects, no matter how sick they were and with
> what, is either a goddamned liar, or else somebody who has
> no idea of what's going on with their rear end.
>
> And yes, I think that includes Linus Pauling. I think that
> on this matter he was incapable of finding his rear end with
> both hands, in fact. Cathcart, too.
>
> SBH

Right on the money Steve. If you want to spend all day on the
pot try taking enough C to completely saturate gut absorption
and then have fun with the "runs" all day.

Pauling at least had enough nerve cells left to say back off
when you reach the diarrhea stage. Toward the end though he
may not have had enough mental function left to follow his own
advice, he was convinced that high dose C would cure his
prostate cancer. It didn't and it finally got him.

But if I make it to 92, I may not care how I do it either but
telling everyone else to do what I do is just plain crazy (if
you ask me).

No animal that still forms C would have ever done to it's body
what Pauling wanted us to do all of the time.

[Beni Kafe]

> Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally
> tried it. Good luck.
>
> It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody
> who says they took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days
> with no side effects, no matter how sick they were and with
> what, is either a goddamned liar, or else somebody who has
> no idea of what's going on with their rear end.

I ,for example, am doing this all the time. I take 13 grams
a day when I am well and 30-50 grams a day when I rarely get
Flu, and after 2 days I am completely well again. I am doing
this regime for 3 years and feels great.I also recommend
this to other people and see how they recover quickly and
suffer less. I think that when someone is talking about Dr.
Klenner and Cathcart who treated and cured tens of thousand
of patients one should talk. whith a little respect about
them beni.

[John 'The]

x-no-archive: yes

Snobs be gone!

Once upon a time, our fellow Martin Banschbach rambled on
about "Re: common cold: vitamin c and zinc do not affect." Our
champion being bored in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>Pauling at least had enough nerve cells left to say back off
>when you reach the diarrhea stage. Toward the end though he
>may not have had enough mental function left to follow his
>own advice, he was convinced that high dose C would cure his
>prostate cancer. It didn't and it finally got him.

>But if I make it to 92, ...

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?

Did the Vitamin C not work, or did it keep him alive until the
ripe old age of 92?

I would be happy to fail at age 92. :-)
--
John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of
the biomedical model of natural health. Weighing in at 16
webpages, Nutrition (www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/)
is now with more documentation and sharper terminology than
ever before.

[taurusrc]

I have been taking 1 gram daily for 20 years with no problems.
I have never had the flu and if I get a cold it never lasts
longer than two hours.

Oa

On 12 Feb 2002 21:00:56 -0800, benik@elisra.com (beni
kafe) wrote:

>>
>> Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally
>> tried it. Good luck.
>>
>> It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody
>> who says they took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days
>> with no side effects, no matter how sick they were and with
>> what, is either a goddamned liar, or else somebody who has
>> no idea of what's going on with their rear end.
>
>I ,for example, am doing this all the time. I take 13 grams
>a day when I am well and 30-50 grams a day when I rarely get
>Flu, and after 2 days I am completely well again. I am doing
>this regime for 3 years and feels great.I also recommend
>this to other people and see how they recover quickly and
>suffer less. I think that when someone is talking about Dr.
>Klenner and Cathcart who treated and cured tens of thousand
>of patients one should talk. whith a little respect about
>them beni.

[Steve Harr]

"beni kafe" <benik@elisra.com> wrote in message
news:33753bc6.0202122100.961a6c4@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally
> > tried it.
Good
> > luck.
> >
> > It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody
> > who says they took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days
> > with no side effects, no
matter
> > how sick they were and with what, is either a goddamned
> > liar, or else somebody who has no idea of what's going on
> > with their rear end.
>
> I ,for example, am doing this all the time. I take 13 grams
> a day when I am well and 30-50 grams a day when I rarely get
> Flu, and after 2 days I am completely well again. I am doing
> this regime for 3 years and feels great.I also recommend
> this to other people and see how they recover quickly and
> suffer less. I think that when someone is talking about Dr.
> Klenner and Cathcart who treated and cured tens of thousand
> of patients one should talk. whith a little respect about
> them beni.

I said 100. Can you read?

[David]

Martin Banschbach wrote:

> David <wired123@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:<g6la8.2277
>
>> Dude, the theory is that infection proportionally increases
>> your bowel tolerance to ascorbate. And guess what? Vitamin
>> C can be injected IV too. Doh.
>>
>> DB
>
> David, you are correct IV C has been used in both AIDS
> patients and cancer patients. C is required for interferon
> synthesis so it did seem reasonable to try IV C. Guess what,
> it did not work, no significant effect on AIDS or cancer in
> humans given very high C directly into the blood.
>
> C is absorbed in the gut using both passive and active
> transport. Passive does increase during an infection but
> active does not.
>
> Pauling based most of his calculations on what humans would
> form using mice which have the highest known C synthetic
> rate in their liver. Heck, rats move their lymph much faster
> than we do.
>
> One thing that Pauling and I agreed on was that humans would
> have produced large amounts of C from the liver during an
> infection but I think his estimate was way too high.
>
> David, if you understand how the *human* immune system
> works, you quickly learn why C is not the magic bullet.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. The things I am
talking about aren't based on theory but the supposed
real-world results of these physicians in treating viral
infections with *extremely* high doses of C. I wouldn't expect
this to have any significant effect on cancer or hiv though.
I'm not saying these guys were right just that we need to do
some studies where we give people *hundreds* of grams of
ascorbate per day during a serious viral infection and see
what happens. No C is not the magic bullet. That would more
likely be lipoic acid and compounds like ALT-711.

DB

[Martin Ban]

David <wired123@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<g6la8.2277

> Dude, the theory is that infection proportionally increases
> your bowel tolerance to ascorbate. And guess what? Vitamin C
> can be injected IV too. Doh.
>
> DB

David, you are correct IV C has been used in both AIDS
patients and cancer patients. C is required for interferon
synthesis so it did seem reasonable to try IV C. Guess what,
it did not work, no significant effect on AIDS or cancer in
humans given very high C directly into the blood.

C is absorbed in the gut using both passive and active
transport. Passive does increase during an infection but
active does not.

Pauling based most of his calculations on what humans would
form using mice which have the highest known C synthetic
rate in their liver. Heck, rats move their lymph much faster
than we do.

One thing that Pauling and I agreed on was that humans would
have produced large amounts of C from the liver during an
infection but I think his estimate was way too high.

David, if you understand how the *human* immune system works,
you quickly learn why C is not the magic bullet.

[Lbj]

For more than 15 years, I've used it about 4 G. daily during
winter only, (forget the rest of the year) and on onset of flu
symptoms, with 1 G. (or
2) every waking 1-1/2 hours, continue one day following
departure of symptoms. Usually have 1-day colds. If a very
virulent strain, maybe 5-6 days. But most of the time I
will wake the next day w/o symptoms. When travelling, I
never forget to include some C. I rarely take any other
vitamins. I don't see how anyone who has tried this
bombarding of symptoms fail to see, if not complete
success, some shortening of the number of days of illness.
If it didn't work, I wouldn't be doing it all these years.
There is simply something to this.

But 100 G. is a "bit" much......

A Skeptic of the first water......

[daNOESPAMs]

Did you get a lot of colds before taken C supplement?

taurusrc@pacbell.net wrote:

> I have been taking 1 gram daily for 20 years with no
> problems. I have never had the flu and if I get a cold it
> never lasts longer than two hours.
>
> Oa
>
> On 12 Feb 2002 21:00:56 -0800, benik@elisra.com (beni
> kafe) wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have
> >> personally tried it. Good luck.
> >>
> >> It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion:
> >> anybody who says they took 100 g of vitamin C for a
> >> couple of days with no side effects, no matter how sick
> >> they were and with what, is either a goddamned liar, or
> >> else somebody who has no idea of what's going on with
> >> their rear end.
> >
> >I ,for example, am doing this all the time. I take 13 grams
> >a day when I am well and 30-50 grams a day when I rarely
> >get Flu, and after 2 days I am completely well again. I am
> >doing this regime for 3 years and feels great.I also
> >recommend this to other people and see how they recover
> >quickly and suffer less. I think that when someone is
> >talking about Dr. Klenner and Cathcart who treated and
> >cured tens of thousand of patients one should talk. whith a
> >little respect about them beni.