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Abdulkaree

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E fights
heart disease?".I want the last information about it and where
i can find like this information in internet sites. please
reply to me as fast as u can, thanx

Jedilworth

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

www.google.com

Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP) Microbiology

Abdulkareem wrote:
>
> hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
> Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
> difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
> fights heart disease?".I want the last information about it
> and where i can find like this information in internet
> sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx

Mbansch314

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

> hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
> Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
> difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
> fights heart disease?".I want the last information about it
> and where i can find like this information in internet
> sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx

Do a medline search (www.nlm.nih.gov).

Vitamin E from the diet goes straight to the liver. The liver
stores it. When it releases vitamin E it either puts it out in
VLDL or releases it directly into blood using tocopherol
binding protein (s).

When VLDL is converted to LDL the vitamin E is still there.
When cells take up LDL they get both cholesterol and
vitamin E. The vitamin E in LDL appears to protect it from
oxidative damage.

If the LDL is damaged, oxidized LDL is formed. It's probably
this oxidized LDL that is responsible for plaque formation.

Vitamin E may protect against heart disease through this
mechanism. Vitamin C levels in the blood appear to help
vitamin E protect LDL from oxidative damage.

Watchman

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

In sci.med.nutrition Abdulkareem <cap10karim@yahoo.com> wrote:
> hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
> Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
> difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
> fights heart disease?".I want the last information about it
> and where i can find like this information in internet
> sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx

If you find any books which have been written by Dr. Shute ..
it will be a good start. He and his brother worked with
vitamin E for years and his work is the work to read.
http://www.nucleus.com/~watchman/vite.html This site speaks to
the work and opposition of Dr. Shute. Who loves ya. Tom
--
Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses
was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Martin Ban

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

>hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
>Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
>difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
>fights heart disease?".I want the last information about it
>and where i can find like this information in internet sites.
>please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx

Do a medline search (www.nlm.nih.gov).

All dietary vitamin E goes to the liver where it is stored.
Some gets released in VLDL. When the VLDL gets converted to
LDL, cells that take up LDL get both cholesterol and
vitamin E.

In medline you are going to find a lot of research on vitamin
E protecting LDL from oxidation and this protection is
believed to be part of the process invovled in vitamin E
protection from heart disease.

Marty B "You are what you eat"

Paul Roger

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

"Abdulkareem" <cap10karim@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e854f502.0202012247.19d1019b@posting.google.com...
> hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
> Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
> difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
> fights heart disease?".I want the last information about it
> and where i can find like this information in internet
> sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx

Do the searches as others have suggested. The biochemical
evidence suggests that E should be protective of heart
disease. The human epidemiology has been equivocal at best.

From what I recall, a distinction being made is heart disease
protection after long-term use of vitamin E by healthy people;
and use *after* an adverse heart event for ongoing protection.
The former may have value, the second less so.

Paul R

Paul Roger

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

John 'The

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

x-no-archive: yes

OSU Nutrition Snobs be gone!

Once upon a time, our fellow Abdulkareem rambled on about
"vitamin E and heart disease." Our champion being bored in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
>Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
>difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
>fights heart disease?".

This person is an Academic!!!

>I want the last information about it and where i can find
>like this information in internet sites. please reply to me
>as fast as u can, thanx

Here, is a classic example of a person trying to control the
outcome of his question by limiting the scope of the responses
to only the latest information. He doesn't want your opinions.
He just wants to the resuts of the latest research studies.

This person is arrogant. And, he also admits to not knowing
the first thing about researching topics either on the web or
in Medline.

Arrogant and Ignorant always goes hand and hand with academia.
I wonder why?
--
John Gohde www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com (((((((((((
Left-Brain Mode ON )))))))))))) Richmond, Virginia, USA,
Planet Earth, The Sun, Milky Way galaxy

Mbansch314

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:39

Jay Tanzma

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

Abdulkareem wrote:
>
> hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
> Dacota"...

...and you don't know how to spell your school's name.

-Jay

Matti Nark

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:33:06 GMT in article
<3C5BF850.857508EB@hortonsbay.com> JEDilworth
<bactitech@hortonsbay.com> wrote:

>Abdulkareem wrote:
>>
>> hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
>> Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
>> difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
>> fights heart disease?".I want the last information about it
>> and where i can find like this information in internet
>> sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx
>
>www.google.com
>
Also

http://www.pubmed.gov

-Matti Narkia

John 'The

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

x-no-archive: yes

Once upon a time, our fellow mbansch314 rambled on about "Re:
vitamin E and heart disease." Our champion being bored in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>> hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
>> Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
>> difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
>> fights heart disease?".I want the last information about it
>> and where i can find like this information in internet
>> sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx

>Do a medline search (www.nlm.nih.gov).

The latest noise on vitamin e is that it does *not* protect
against heart disease.

>Vitamin E from the diet goes straight to the liver. The liver
>stores it.

After intestinal absorption and transport with chylomicrons,
tocopherols are mostly transferred to the parenchymal cells
of the liver, with a transfer protein that is specific for
d-alpha-tocopherol, where most of the fat-soluble Vitamin E
is stored.

I question however if you can characterize it as storage.

The liver rather than the intestine is where the body
discriminates between d-alpha-tocopherol and
d-gamma-tocopherol. The d-alpha-tocopherol form of Vitamin E
is reused, but d-gamma-tocopherol is NOT. The liver, however,
secretes all the d-gamma-tocopherol into the bile.
d-alpha-tocopherol is continually being recycled by the liver.

But, my sources of information intakes that the half-life of
d-gamma-tocopherol is only about 12 hours, while
d-alpha-tocopherol might hang around for several days, at best
(i.e., the d-alpha-tocopherol form of Vitamin E is considered
to have the highest biological activity).

If the liver truly stored vitamin E, it would be possible to
over dosage on it, like vitamin A.

Citations supporting the above are available on my webpage at:
http://info.naturalhealthperspective.com/vitaminestory.html
--
John Gohde, Achieving good health is an Art, NOT a Science!

The www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com website is a
cross-browser, cross-platform friendly site.

Alpha Male

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

"watchman" <watchman@nucleus.com> wrote in part:
> If you find any books which have been written by Dr. Shute
> .. it will be a good start. He and his brother worked with
> vitamin E for years and his work is the work to read.
> http://www.nucleus.com/~watchman/vite.html This site speaks
> to the work and opposition of Dr. Shute.

Thanx, that's just what I've been hoping to find. I kept
seeing refs- to those Shute bros., but haven't found much info
on the net. Appreciate it!

Lot's of vit-E info at www.lef.org also: www.findarticles.com
type in : vit-E, or Heart Disease, or tocotrienols may help to
narrow search by clicking on _Health_ rather than _All
magazines_

Justin Bon

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

"Paul Rogers" <ecoldata@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:<5A078.31862$Ni2.180414@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> "Abdulkareem" <cap10karim@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:e854f502.0202012247.19d1019b@posting.google.com...
> > hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
> > Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
> > difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
> > fights heart disease?".I want the last information about
> > it and where i can find like this information in internet
> > sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx
>
> Try this to kick off with:
>
> http://www.tnp.com/news/article/201/
>
Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies closely?
Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious about the use of
synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm not interested enough to
do it myself, but if anyone has already looked into that, I'd
like to know what they found.

Justin

Alpha Male

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

"Paul Rogers" <ecoldata@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:5A078.31862$Ni2.180414@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "Abdulkareem" <cap10karim@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:e854f502.0202012247.19d1019b@posting.google.com...
> > hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
> > Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
> > difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
> > fights heart disease?".I want the last information about
> > it and where i can find like this information in internet
> > sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx
>
> Try this to kick off with:
>
> http://www.tnp.com/news/article/201/
>

Then, for "the rest of the story"......

http://www.lef.org What's wrong with Vit-E then scroll down
to: Vit-E studies give "compelling evidence"

Why Some Supps Fail to Work
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/april00-itn.html

Mattlb

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

> Do the searches as others have suggested. The biochemical
> evidence suggests that E should be protective of heart
> disease. The human epidemiology has been equivocal at best.
>
> From what I recall, a distinction being made is heart
> disease protection after long-term use of vitamin E by
> healthy people; and use *after* an adverse heart event for
> ongoing protection. The former may have value, the second
> less so.

I'd go along with that. Vit E is useful for preventing free
radical induced modification of lipoproteins (which
ultimately results in a fatty plaque), but in a mature
atherosclerotic plaque there's little vit E can do as the
growth is a result of inflammatory and mitogenic agents
released by various cell types.

In certain circumstances e.g. low plasma vit C, or high local
copper concentrations, vitamin E actually promotes free
radical attack.

MattLB

Mark Probe

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

On 2 Feb 2002 21:27:37 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com (Justin
Bond) wrote:

>"Paul Rogers" <ecoldata@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>news:<5A078.31862$Ni2.180414@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
>> "Abdulkareem" <cap10karim@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:e854f502.0202012247.19d1019b@posting.google.com...
>> > hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of
>> > North Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I
>> > meet difficulty to find new information about "How
>> > vitamin E fights heart disease?".I want the last
>> > information about it and where i can find like this
>> > information in internet sites. please reply to me as fast
>> > as u can, thanx
>>
>> Try this to kick off with:
>>
>> http://www.tnp.com/news/article/201/
>>
>Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies closely?
>Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious about the use of
>synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm not interested enough to
>do it myself, but if anyone has already looked into that, I'd
>like to know what they found.

Is there a difference between synthetic and natural?

Paul Roger

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

"Alpha Male" <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a3jrtn$18dm69$1@ID-119695.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Paul Rogers" <ecoldata@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:5A078.31862$Ni2.180414@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > "Abdulkareem" <cap10karim@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:e854f502.0202012247.19d1019b@posting.google.com...
> > > hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of
> > > North Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I
> > > meet difficulty to find new information about "How
> > > vitamin E fights heart disease?".I want the last
> > > information about it and where i can find like this
> > > information in internet sites. please reply to me as
> > > fast as u can, thanx
> >
> > Try this to kick off with:
> >
> > http://www.tnp.com/news/article/201/
> >
>
> Then, for "the rest of the story"......
>
> http://www.lef.org What's wrong with Vit-E then scroll down
> to: Vit-E studies give "compelling evidence"

Does LEF sell supplements?

PR

Justin Bon

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
news:<3c5ccbf8.138627224@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
> On 2 Feb 2002 21:27:37 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
> (Justin Bond) wrote:
>
> >Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies closely?
> >Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious about the use
> >of synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm not interested
> >enough to do it myself, but if anyone has already looked
> >into that, I'd like to know what they found.
>
> Is there a difference between synthetic and natural?

yup, for just about all of them. Natural vitamins are more
bioavailable and less toxic. Here is a good review article:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db-
=PubMed&list_uids=11090291&dopt=Abstract

In the case of Vitamin E, this is likely because the vitamin
actually consists of two class of compounds - tocopherols and
tocotrienols - of which there are four differant types -
alpha, beta, gamma and delta. Synthetic Vitamin E is nearly
always just one of those, alpha-tocopherol, whereas natural
food-complexed forms have all 8.

Justin

Justin

David Wrig

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

In article <9e410988.0202030144.5e0fd3d0@posting.google.com>,
Justin Bond <justin_bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
>news:<3c5ccbf8.138627224@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
>> On 2 Feb 2002 21:27:37 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
>> (Justin Bond) wrote:
>>
>> >Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies closely?
>> >Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious about the use
>> >of synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm not interested
>> >enough to do it myself, but if anyone has already looked
>> >into that, I'd like to know what they found.
>>
>> Is there a difference between synthetic and natural?
>
>yup, for just about all of them. Natural vitamins are more
>bioavailable and less toxic. Here is a good review article:
>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&d-
>b=PubMed&list_uids=11090291&dopt=Abstract
>
>In the case of Vitamin E, this is likely because the vitamin
>actually consists of two class of compounds - tocopherols and
>tocotrienols - of which there are four differant types -
>alpha, beta, gamma and delta.

And I'll believe it for E, but what about some of the others?
The abstract doesn't tell you which ones make a difference,
and I don't have access to the journal.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I have
not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders."

Alpha Male

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

"Paul Rogers" <ecoldata@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> "Alpha Male" <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > http://www.lef.org What's wrong with Vit-E then scroll
> > down to: Vit-E studies give "compelling evidence"
>
> Does LEF sell supplements?
>

Yup. The difference is, tho, it's a non-profit group. They're
constantly in battle with the FDA, which can be very
expensive.They also do research.....they claim. Still, I have
my antenna up when they write opinions instead of citing
studies. They seem, at times, to be aggressively pushing the
products they sell. Similar info is available from other
sources, tho. Can just go to Google, search under _Groups.

The LIFE EXTENSION FOUNDATION - http://www.lef.org -
800-544-4440 A non-profit membership organization dedicated to
the extension of the healthy human lifespan through ground
breaking research, innovative ideas and practical methods.

David Wrig

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

In article <3c5dd31d.206002407@News.CIS.DFN.DE>, Mark Probert
<mark_probert@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:01:01 GMT, wright@clam.prodigy.net
>(David Wright) wrote:
>
>>In article
>><9e410988.0202030144.5e0fd3d0@posting.google.com>, Justin
>>Bond <justin_bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
>>>news:<3c5ccbf8.138627224@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
>>>> On 2 Feb 2002 21:27:37 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
>>>> (Justin Bond) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies
>>>> >closely? Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious
>>>> >about the use of synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm not
>>>> >interested enough to do it myself, but if anyone has
>>>> >already looked into that, I'd like to know what they
>>>> >found.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a difference between synthetic and natural?
>>>
>>>yup, for just about all of them. Natural vitamins are more
>>>bioavailable and less toxic. Here is a good review article:
>>>
>>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve-
>>>&db=PubMed&list_uids=11090291&dopt=Abstract
>>>
>>>In the case of Vitamin E, this is likely because the
>>>vitamin actually consists of two class of compounds -
>>>tocopherols and tocotrienols - of which there are four
>>>differant types - alpha, beta, gamma and delta.
>>
>>And I'll believe it for E, but what about some of the
>>others? The abstract doesn't tell you which ones make a
>>difference, and I don't have access to the journal.
>
>Don't believe it so fast. The buyer of the study is a seller
>of the substance.

Fair enough. But with E, I know there's other evidence that
your typical synthetic E, which is just alpha tocopherol, is
not equivalent to the mixed tocopherols you get from the
natural form. I would require serious convincing that
ascorbic acid is somehow not the same as "natural vitamin
C," on the other hand. No matter how many ads Larry King
does for Ester-C.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I have
not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders."

Mark Probe

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

On 3 Feb 2002 01:44:59 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com (Justin
Bond) wrote:

>mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
>news:<3c5ccbf8.138627224@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
>> On 2 Feb 2002 21:27:37 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
>> (Justin Bond) wrote:
>>
>> >Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies closely?
>> >Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious about the use
>> >of synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm not interested
>> >enough to do it myself, but if anyone has already looked
>> >into that, I'd like to know what they found.
>>
>> Is there a difference between synthetic and natural?
>
>yup, for just about all of them. Natural vitamins are more
>bioavailable and less toxic. Here is a good review article:
>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&d-
>b=PubMed&list_uids=11090291&dopt=Abstract
>
>In the case of Vitamin E, this is likely because the vitamin
>actually consists of two class of compounds - tocopherols and
>tocotrienols - of which there are four differant types -
>alpha, beta, gamma and delta. Synthetic Vitamin E is nearly
>always just one of those, alpha-tocopherol, whereas natural
>food-complexed forms have all 8.

Study bought and paid for by Doctors' Research Inc.

Guess what they sell?

....drum roll...

Vitamins and supplements!

Mark Probe

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:01:01 GMT, wright@clam.prodigy.net
(David Wright) wrote:

>In article <9e410988.0202030144.5e0fd3d0@posting.google.com>,
>Justin Bond <justin_bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
>>news:<3c5ccbf8.138627224@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
>>> On 2 Feb 2002 21:27:37 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
>>> (Justin Bond) wrote:
>>>
>>> >Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies closely?
>>> >Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious about the use
>>> >of synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm not interested
>>> >enough to do it myself, but if anyone has already looked
>>> >into that, I'd like to know what they found.
>>>
>>> Is there a difference between synthetic and natural?
>>
>>yup, for just about all of them. Natural vitamins are more
>>bioavailable and less toxic. Here is a good review article:
>>
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&-
>>db=PubMed&list_uids=11090291&dopt=Abstract
>>
>>In the case of Vitamin E, this is likely because the vitamin
>>actually consists of two class of compounds - tocopherols
>>and tocotrienols - of which there are four differant types -
>>alpha, beta, gamma and delta.
>
>And I'll believe it for E, but what about some of the others?
>The abstract doesn't tell you which ones make a difference,
>and I don't have access to the journal.

Don't believe it so fast. The buyer of the study is a seller
of the substance.

Mark Probe

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

On Sun, 3 Feb 2002 21:21:56 -0500, "Alpha Male"
<nomail@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Paul Rogers" <ecoldata@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> "Alpha Male" <nomail@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > http://www.lef.org What's wrong with Vit-E then scroll
>> > down to: Vit-E studies give "compelling evidence"
>>
>> Does LEF sell supplements?
>>
>
>Yup. The difference is, tho, it's a non-profit group. They're
>constantly in battle with the FDA, which can be very
>expensive.They also do research.....they claim. Still, I have
>my antenna up when they write opinions instead of citing
>studies. They seem, at times, to be aggressively pushing the
>products they sell. Similar info is available from other
>sources, tho. Can just go to Google, search under _Groups.
>
>The LIFE EXTENSION FOUNDATION - http://www.lef.org -
>800-544-4440 A non-profit membership organization dedicated
>to the extension of the healthy human lifespan through ground
>breaking research, innovative ideas and practical methods.

Non-profit may be misleading, unless the entire staff is
unsalaried.

Justin Bon

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
news:<3c5dd2df.205940388@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
> On 3 Feb 2002 01:44:59 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
> (Justin Bond) wrote:
>
> >mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
> >news:<3c5ccbf8.138627224@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
> >> On 2 Feb 2002 21:27:37 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
> >> (Justin Bond) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies
> >> >closely? Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious
> >> >about the use of synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm not
> >> >interested enough to do it myself, but if anyone has
> >> >already looked into that, I'd like to know what they
> >> >found.
> >>
> >> Is there a difference between synthetic and natural?
> >
> >yup, for just about all of them. Natural vitamins are more
> >bioavailable and less toxic. Here is a good review article:
> >
> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve-
> >&db=PubMed&list_uids=11090291&dopt=Abstract
> >
> >In the case of Vitamin E, this is likely because the
> >vitamin actually consists of two class of compounds -
> >tocopherols and tocotrienols - of which there are four
> >differant types - alpha, beta, gamma and delta. Synthetic
> >Vitamin E is nearly always just one of those,
> >alpha-tocopherol, whereas natural food-complexed forms
> >have all 8.
>
> Study bought and paid for by Doctors' Research Inc.
>
> Guess what they sell?
>
> ....drum roll...
>
> Vitamins and supplements!

All research is funded by people with agenda's. Welcome to the
real world. Or are you arguing that there aren't 8 differant
classes of Vitamin E?

Justin

Mark Probe

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

On 3 Feb 2002 22:12:52 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com (Justin
Bond) wrote:

>mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
>news:<3c5dd2df.205940388@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
>> On 3 Feb 2002 01:44:59 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
>> (Justin Bond) wrote:
>>
>> >mark_probert@hotmail.com (Mark Probert) wrote in message
>> >news:<3c5ccbf8.138627224@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
>> >> On 2 Feb 2002 21:27:37 -0800, justin_bond@hotmail.com
>> >> (Justin Bond) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Has anyone here looked into the clinical studies
>> >> >closely? Apropos of that recent post, I'd be curious
>> >> >about the use of synthetic or natural vitamin E. I'm
>> >> >not interested enough to do it myself, but if anyone
>> >> >has already looked into that, I'd like to know what
>> >> >they found.
>> >>
>> >> Is there a difference between synthetic and natural?
>> >
>> >yup, for just about all of them. Natural vitamins are more
>> >bioavailable and less toxic. Here is a good review
>> >article:
>> >
>> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retriev-
>> >e&db=PubMed&list_uids=11090291&dopt=Abstract
>> >
>> >In the case of Vitamin E, this is likely because the
>> >vitamin actually consists of two class of compounds -
>> >tocopherols and tocotrienols - of which there are four
>> >differant types - alpha, beta, gamma and delta. Synthetic
>> >Vitamin E is nearly always just one of those,
>> >alpha-tocopherol, whereas natural food-complexed forms
>> >have all 8.
>>
>> Study bought and paid for by Doctors' Research Inc.
>>
>> Guess what they sell?
>>
>> ....drum roll...
>>
>> Vitamins and supplements!
>
>All research is funded by people with agenda's. Welcome to
>the real world.

I am arguing that to cite a preliminary study which was bought
and paid for by a manufacturer is specious.

>Or are you arguing that there aren't 8 differant classes of
>Vitamin E?

Can you stay on topic?

What did I type that makes you believe I said anything
about that?

John 'The

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

x-no-archive: yes

OSU Nutrition Snobs be gone!

Once upon a time, our fellow Mark Probert rambled on about
"Re: vitamin E and heart disease." Our champion being bored in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>>> Study bought and paid for by Doctors' Research Inc.

>>> Guess what they sell?

>>> ....drum roll...

>>> Vitamins and supplements!

>>All research is funded by people with agenda's. Welcome to
>>the real world.

>I am arguing that to cite a preliminary study which was
>bought and paid for by a manufacturer is specious.

Specious in regards to what?

>>Or are you arguing that there aren't 8 differant classes of
>>Vitamin E?

>Can you stay on topic?

And, what exactly is the topic?

>What did I type that makes you believe I said anything
>about that?

Yes, what exactly did you write? Absolutely nothing, IMHO.

Previously, you wrote:
>Don't believe it so fast. The buyer of the study is a seller
>of the substance.

Now, can you kindly define "it" so that we will know if you
are truly a Twit arguing over language.
--
John Gohde www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com (((((((((((
Left-Brain Mode ON )))))))))))) Richmond, Virginia, USA,
Planet Earth, The Sun, Milky Way galaxy

Mark Probe

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:33:21 GMT, John 'the Man'
<DeMan@JustSayNo.com> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>

I do not engage in dialogue with anyone who hides their words
behind that.

If you wish dialogue, then repsond without it.

Mark Doran

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

What does it mean? Some kind of search code? And why does
he use it?

M.

"Mark Probert" <Mark_ProbertBLOCKER@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:3c5f054b.16500858@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
> On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:33:21 GMT, John 'the Man'
> <DeMan@JustSayNo.com> wrote:
>
> >x-no-archive: yes
> >
>
> I do not engage in dialogue with anyone who hides their
> words behind that.
>
> If you wish dialogue, then repsond without it.

John 'The

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

x-no-archive: yes

Snobs be gone!

Once upon a time, our fellow Mark Probert rambled on about
"Re: vitamin E and heart disease." Our champion being bored in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

I do *not* engage in dialogue anyone who does *not* know how
to use the quote function of their newreader.

>On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:33:21 GMT, John 'the Man'
><DeMan@JustSayNo.com> wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>
>
>I do not engage in dialogue with anyone who hides their words
>behind that.
>
>If you wish dialogue, then repsond without it.

Mark Probe

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 22:50:14 -0000, "mark doran"
<doran@dial.pipex.com> wrote:

It prevents archiving, originally by Deja, and now by Google.
I have never had a decent conversation with anyone who uses
it. If a person starts a thread with it, I do not get
involved. If they interject it into the middle of a thread, as
was done here, I make the comment I
did.

I could respond to them and delete it, but I respect their
wishes and let them make the choice.

>What does it mean? Some kind of search code? And why does
>he use it?
>
>M.
>
>
>
>"Mark Probert" <Mark_ProbertBLOCKER@hotmail.com> wrote in
>message news:3c5f054b.16500858@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
>> On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:33:21 GMT, John 'the Man'
>> <DeMan@JustSayNo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >x-no-archive: yes
>> >
>>
>> I do not engage in dialogue with anyone who hides their
>> words behind that.
>>
>> If you wish dialogue, then repsond without it.
>>
>

Mark Probe

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 00:18:14 GMT, John 'the Man'
<DeMan@JustSayNo.com> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>Snobs be gone!
>
>Once upon a time, our fellow Mark Probert rambled on about
>"Re: vitamin E and heart disease." Our champion being bored
>in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
>
>I do *not* engage in dialogue anyone who does *not* know how
>to use the quote function of their newreader.

Good. However, I have no idea who you are talking about.

Last post.

>>On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:33:21 GMT, John 'the Man'
>><DeMan@JustSayNo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>x-no-archive: yes
>>>
>>
>>I do not engage in dialogue with anyone who hides their
>>words behind that.
>>
>>If you wish dialogue, then repsond without it.
>

John 'The

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

x-no-archive: yes

Snobs be gone!

Once upon a time, our fellow Mark Probert rambled on about
"Re: vitamin E and heart disease." Our champion being bored in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>It prevents archiving, originally by Deja, and now by Google.
>I have never had a decent conversation with anyone who uses
>it. If a person starts a thread with it, I do not get
>involved. If they interject it into the middle of a thread,
>as was done here, I make the comment I
>did.

And, you also notified the world that you are an authentic
idiot. :-)

I don't want to communicate to free loaders who don't pay
their own freight.
--
John Gohde www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com (((((((((((
Left-Brain Mode ON )))))))))))) Richmond, Virginia, USA,
Planet Earth, The Sun, Milky Way galaxy

John 'The

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

x-no-archive: yes

Snobs be gone!

Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB rambled on about "Re:
vitamin E and heart disease." Our champion being bored in
sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>> I don't want to communicate to free loaders who don't pay
>> their own freight.

>You've used this line before and it wasn't a convincing
>smokescreen of your desire to hide your trolling, the first
>time.Two things:

Apparently, you have not come across the post in which I
stated that I primarily use it to totally piss off the science
geeks on this ng. Seems to be working quite well to me. :-)

Over the years, I have found that no matter what I do somebody
will find a reason to complain about it.

It is none of your business. Get a life. :-)

>1) People in countries other than the US may have to pay a
> per minute charge for internet calls, which makes you more
> of a freeloader than they are.

You can connect. Download new posts. Logoff in less than
one minute.

>2) Reading newsgroups through a web interface such as Google
> means you're online for longer and thus paying more than a
> batch-download newsgroup reader.

You mean that they are stupid?

Again, It is none of your business. Get a life. :-)

My posts are directed only at a handful of people. And, they
all seem to be receiving them quite well. Thank you.
--
John Gohde www.NaturalHealthPerspective.com (((((((((((
Left-Brain Mode ON )))))))))))) Richmond, Virginia, USA,
Planet Earth, The Sun, Milky Way galaxy

Mattlb

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

John 'the Man' wrote:

> >It prevents archiving, originally by Deja, and now by
> >Google. I have never had a decent conversation with anyone
> >who uses it. If a person starts a thread with it, I do not
> >get involved. If they interject it into the middle of a
> >thread, as was done here, I make the comment I
> >did.
>
> I don't want to communicate to free loaders who don't pay
> their own freight.

You've used this line before and it wasn't a convincing
smokescreen of your desire to hide your trolling, the first
time.Two things:

1) People in countries other than the US may have to pay a per
minute charge for internet calls, which makes you more of a
freeloader than they are.
2) Reading newsgroups through a web interface such as Google
means you're online for longer and thus paying more than a
batch-download newsgroup reader.

MattLB

Mark Doran

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:40

"MattLB" <mattlb@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:3C6034E8.887B6310@angelfire.com...
> John 'the Man' wrote:
>
> > >It prevents archiving, originally by Deja, and now by
> > >Google. I have never had a decent conversation with
> > >anyone who uses it. If a person starts a thread with
> > >it, I do not get involved. If they interject it into
> > >the middle of a thread, as was done here, I make the
> > >comment I
> > >did.
> >
> > I don't want to communicate to free loaders who don't pay
> > their own freight.
>

I get it! You mean this arse (who I've had killfiled for
ages) tries to make sure that no-one can check up on his
total archive of deranged drivellings? A hit-and-run troll,
in other words?

What a freakin' nutbar. Someone could get a really good *case
study* out of him, if they could be bothered...

M.

Mattlb

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:45

"mbansch314" <mbansch314@cox.net> wrote in message
news:<Zwj78.11210$mR5.590753@news2.east.cox.net>...
> > hi every body,,, i'm a student in UND "University of North
> > Dacota" and have research talks about vitamin E.I meet
> > difficulty to find new information about "How vitamin E
> > fights heart disease?".I want the last information about
> > it and where i can find like this information in internet
> > sites. please reply to me as fast as u can, thanx
>
> Do a medline search (www.nlm.nih.gov).
>
> Vitamin E from the diet goes straight to the liver. The
> liver stores it. When it releases vitamin E it either puts
> it out in VLDL or releases it directly into blood using
> tocopherol binding protein (s).
>
> When VLDL is converted to LDL the vitamin E is still there.
> When cells take up LDL they get both cholesterol and
> vitamin E. The vitamin E in LDL appears to protect it from
> oxidative damage.
>
> If the LDL is damaged, oxidized LDL is formed. It's probably
> this oxidized LDL that is responsible for plaque formation.
>
> Vitamin E may protect against heart disease through this
> mechanism. Vitamin C levels in the blood appear to help
> vitamin E protect LDL from oxidative damage.

There's an interesting paper on vitamin E and its
non-antioxidant effects on atherosclerosis here:

http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/131/2/378S

MattLB

Martin Ban

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:46

mattlb@angelfire.com (MattLB) wrote in message

> There's an interesting paper on vitamin E and its
> non-antioxidant effects on atherosclerosis here:
>
> http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/131/2/378S
>
> MattLB

Matt,

This paper is more than interesting. Liver puts out vitamin
E in VLDL and in a tocopherol binding protein. Every cell
takes up LDL so why would another vitamin E delievery
system be used?

I never could figure this out. The liver puts out retinol in a
retinol binding protein and this is used in many cells to
regulate gene expression. Liver appears to put
alpha-tocopherol out in a specific protein that binds to cell
receptors and this tocopherol regulates gene expression just
like vitamin A does.

The way I understand it, the VLDL has all of the tocopherol
and tocotrienols that come from the diet in a mix determined
by dietary intake and this stuff now appears to be used as
antioxidant material in cells that take up the LDL.

As the paper you cited says, this mix is not retained in the
human body (gets used up doing it's job of fighting free
radicals).

The alpha-tocopherol in the tocopherol binding protein is
being sent out for a completely different function and it is
retained to allow it to regulate gene expression. No one
seemed to know why the liver would use two different processes
for releasing E into the blood. This paper seems to have
solved this puzzle.

Herman Rub

Sat, Apr-27-02, 23:46