Red Wine evening addiction

[osuzana]

:confused: For many years now, I have been in the habit of getting my daily routine done, dinner, dishes, laundry, kids to bed (they are grown now)... Around 9pm each night I always had and still do, 2 or 3 glasses of dry red wine... I looked forward to this each evening, because it would totally relax me and help me unwind, and give me a little buzz, but most of all it would help me get my overactive worried mind and butt into bed, (made me sleepy)
Over the years I have continued this way of life. I still drink 2 or 3 glasses a night. I want to do the lo- carb diet, but the only reason I fail is because of the cravings for my habit. It is very difficult to give up this thing that I enjoy so much, I am now going through peri-menopause and have gained a lot of weight in the last few years, taking it off now is more difficult than ever!
I wish I could get past the desire and habit of having the wine! Any one have any inspiration? My resolve to just stop is strong all day, but as evening approaches I begin to look forward to the feeling of sitting down with a book and my wine, and relaxing after a long day of work. I really like it! Help!!

[Karen]

Yes, your mind and body start getting into a habit. And the habit becomes an addiction.

I had the same habit, and when I quit, my carb addiction kicked in big time. Here I am today. Recovery is something I explore and grow into on a daily basis. I really liked wine but it was slowly killing me. I really like carbs, but they were killing me too.

I will be bold and suggest that a bit of time for you, and only you in the form of excercise, relaxation techniques and some addiction counseling or self help group such as AA would do wonders. Your peace of mind and health is worth it.

Karen

[Joanna]

I can only agree with Karen. And here's why. I have the same problem, although for me it's worse, because my children are grown up and I start my nightly 'ritual' with a couple of drinks while I'm making supper. THEN I move on to the wine.

I've been wrestling with it for years. Alcohol was part of the family culture I grew up in, although it never seemed to be a problem. And so far it hasn't been for me. I work out, walk my dog and work full time. Giving up something that, on the face fo it, doesn't seem to be doing any harm -- in fact seems to be a GOOD thing -- is very difficult. But I feel as if something's wrong, so that's probably a good indicator that something is.

I can recommend a very good book called "The Thinking Person's Guide to Sobriety" by Bert Pluyman (I'm not sure about the spelling of his last name). It's funny and written with a great deal of grace and intelligence. I know you're thinking: "I'm not an alcoholic! What's she on about??" I don't consider myself an alcoholic either, but I sure don't seem to be able to give up my 'habit'.

See if you can find that book. And don't be afraid to consider the possibility that you might be hooked on the stuff. Alcohol crosses all lines.

I'm currently attending an all-ladies AA group. I feel VERY out of place, but they're all kind and funny and not pushy at all. I haven't stopped drinking yet and I'm not sure how or if I will, but I figure I owe it to myself at least to understand what I'm dealing with and to make an intelligent choice.

Oh, and I've lost 12 pounds since January, so while it might slow the loss down, it doesn't seem to have stopped it -- at least for me.

e-mail me if you want to talk.

Take care,

Joanna :)

[Joanna]

that alcohol is really insidious. Ii directly affects the brain, so when you find yourself beginning to look forward to your nightly wine, it is, in all probability, the first stage of withdrawal. I don't know how many times I've said to myself in the morning that I would only have one glass of wine with dinner, or I wouldn't have anything at all, and then when suppertime came around found myself with a drink in my hand, all the time telling myself it was all right.

I don't get drunk. I've never missed an hour of work because of a hangover. I've never been stopped by the cops or had (horrors) a 'pick-me-up' in the morning. I, like you, like the way it helps me to drop off to sleep quickly. Getting to sleep has been something of an issue with me since childhood. But ten years ago I was routinely having two drinks a night; now I have four or five (or sometimes six). What does that tell me?

It really bears thinking about.

Bye again,

Joanna

[osuzana]

Hello Joanna, I really appreciate your input, and you wrote the things I think! I agree with what you have to say.:agree:
It is very difficult to go without having my usual glass of wine each night. I always tell myself during the day, that this is gonna be the night I just go without...... :rolleyes: Sure! By 9pm I am beginning to argue with myself on why do I feel I can't get thru the night without it. I see you have trouble with sleep, as I do!
Wine definitely helps me with that. I grew up in a home where my stepfather was abusive to my mother...It always happened at night, and I was always the one who felt I had to rescue her and make it stop.... I was actually afraid to fall asleep for fear he would hurt her before I could get there to interrupt. I know it is years later and I have been in counseling because of it.... I also suffered for years from anxiety and panic attacks. They are much better due to counseling ( I don't know if I spelled that right) :roll: My stepfather was an alcoholic, and an abuser.
I am also a very sensitive person, I guess that is why I was so affected by what went on.
I never drank untill I was about 28 years old, I was in a band in NY and we would all have a few drinks to unwind after a long night., I have been drinking the same amount since then, some times a little more sometimes a little less, 2 to 3 glasses of red wine a night. :confused:
I am sure I have a problem because I don't want to give it up.
I am working on it though... For the last few nights, I hold off having my glass of wine untill around 10:30pm, I usually go to bed around 11:30 so it doesnt give me much time to drink more than 1 1/2 glasses... before I get real sleepy. So I'm going to keep at it, hopefully in time I won't need any wine to get sleepy, I'll just go to bed. I hope! :daze:
You sound like me when you write and I enjoy being in touch with someone who probably understands just how I am feeling. ;) I hope to hear from you again, and Iwant youto know I appreciate your kind interest.... Thanks, Susann

[Joanna]

You sound like you had a difficult childhood. I was lucky -- I didn't, but I guess we all have our hang-ups left over from earlier times.

I noticed in your note to Karen that you used the phrase "won't feel as if I'm missing something" and I thought that was really interesting, because I've felt that I've been missing something all my life, and last week at the AA meeting the women there talked about it as if that feeling were common to all of them. (Wow! that was a bit of a rambling sentence!!) For me, it's as if there's a piece missing, and I'm constantly aware of needing to find it. The lack of it doesn't cripple me or anything, but I wonder sometimes if I'm ever going to be truly happy without finding it.

Do you feel like this?

If I were you, I'd take it very slowly. What you're dealing with here is pretty complicated, and it needs to be handled carefully. I'd see if there's a women's AA you could try. I'm not a rabid feminist, but women hve different issues than men, and I know that you will get a different level of support from them than you will from a mixed group. The hardest thing for me about going to an AA meeting was admitting the possibility that I really might have a problem -- and I'm still wrestling with that. But it really is just another type of therapy -- a chance to get to know yourself better.

You could try it, and if you really HATE it you could not go back. No harm in that, right?

As for me, I'm making bargains with myself now. :rolleyes: I've decided to cut out my pre-supper drinks and just have wine with my meal. I'm really going to try, because I guess I don't want to give up alcohol yet. But I may have to face the fact that I can't control it anymore, and if that's the case I will stop, because the alternative is too miserable to contemplate. What a waste of time.

I'll stop rambling now. I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

Take care,

Joanna

P.S. I'm not a religious person (becoming more spritual though), but I thought you'd like this quote from Isaiah:

"The Lord will guide you continually, and you shall be as a watered garden"

[Karen]

I just wanted to chime in and say that there is no shame in being an addict and that's why 12-Step groups can be such a positive experience. Everyone is in the same boat and there isn't- or shouldn't be - any judgment upon you. What is a shame though is hitting low points all alone.

It is a means of personal growth, and everyone works at their own growth, at their own pace. One of the familiar phrases in 12-Step groups is - take what you need and leave the rest and it works if you work it!

Karen

[fth_msktr]

Susann,
I used to have a very dificult time falling asleep. Many, many nights for a period of about five years I only slept 3, 4, or on a good night maybe 5 hours. I have a wonderful library full of books that I read from that time in my life. I read many classics, hence the name Fifth Musketeer, the book The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas was one of my favorites and I read it several times. But, I am getting off the track.
I have read the discussion so far and I realize that you have other contributing factors to your sleep problems. From a physical standpoint I would like to tell you what worked for me.
Right about when I started Atkins for the first time several things fell into place. Giving up sugar and ALL caffiene as recommended in the Atkins book helped a lot, then I remembered, from one of my sleepless nights, I had read about something called MELATONIN. This is naturally produced in our bodies, but some people don't produce enough. The effects of MELATONIN on our body is to help us fall asleep. It is available as a supplement in vitamin stores and I have even seen it in the local drug store.
I believe for me the effects of these three factors, cutting out sugar, giving up ALL caffeine and the supplement MELATONIN allowed me to develope a regular sleep pattern of 7 hours a night.
MELATONIN does not work like a sleeping pill, it does not knock you out, it does not put you to sleep. It helps bring on a slight drowsy feeling but nothing overpowering, just enough so that I feel if I get into bed I will fall asleep instead of tossing and turning. MELATONIN is not addictive. I use it only occasionally now, once every couple weeks. Maybe this is something that could work for you, or at least something you may want to keep in mind for a later time.
In any event I wish you the best of luck!! :thup:

[_wilow]

Thank all of you for sharing about this issue. I am completely surprized that so many of you have done the same thing I did. I quit smoking several years ago, was low carbing too. I really REALLY missed the way it calmed me down. I started having 2 really TALL mixed drinks, rum and diet coke, in the evening after chores done and baby to bed. I'd get on the computer and unwind. I looked SO forward to that that I often just skipped dinner. I started realizing it was a problem when 1. my doctor prescribed an anti-biotic that you couldnt drink with and I paniced (but didn't drink), 2. when I told myself "oh I'll just get a bubble bath tonight instead of drinking and I drank anyway.
My father was alcoholic and got sober in AA when I was 12. I know the signs and symptoms and I think I was heading in that direction. So I woke up the morning after the bubble bath didnt happen and told my husband I was drinking to much and wanted him to know I was throwing out the bottle. This was I was accountable. So far it's worked pretty well. I've not done as well on my diet though. If we're out somewhere I'll occasionally drink and this has worked ok. We'll see how it goes... Thanks again for having the courage to bring up this topic.. Lisa

[missatc]

Hi, Please pardon me for jumping in. I just finished reading this post and it hit so close to home that I couldn't stay quiet.

One of the biggest obstacles I had when starting Atkins was giving up the alcohol. I did cut waaaaaaaay back on beer (too high in carbs and don't care much for Miller Lite) but just consumed more wine. I even went out and bought a bottle of rum (which I use to drink once in a great while) and started drinking rum and cokes more often, guilt free? I guess I don't like how hard alcohol makes me feel, not the same as red wine! So, I've cut back to the "once in a great while" for that.

So, the hard stuff is basically out-don't like how it makes me feel.
Gave up the beer-too many carbs-can down a Miller lite once in awhile. But,....The Red Wine...............

I found for myself that I simply cannot have red wine in the house (DH doesn't like it anyway). If it is here, I drink it. I would buy one of the large bottles of Merlot from COSTCO and drink half the bottle in one evening, and finish it the next night. I am a Christian, so I struggle with issues of obedience here as well (not necessarily abstaining, but not getting drunk). I've often wondered if I am an alcoholic, because I don't like the idea of never enjoying another ice cold beer on a hot summer day, or a warm glass of red on a cold winter's night. The only real problem alcohol has caused in my life is being overweight and out of shape. I often relate my desire to not stop drinking, to the same desire to not stop overeating. For me, it seems to be a similar mindset. Since starting LC, I have felt so much better mentally! My desire to overeat is gone! My desire to consume alcohol has not dissappeared, but it has diminished some. I am hoping that as I continue this WOE, that my desire for alcohol consumption will settle into a "normalacy". When my DR. asks about how much alcohol do I drink, I would like to respond, "occaisionally" :)
Besides, I want to lose weight, and I have found myself at a stall for some time. Even figuring in the calories/carbs, I was staying under 20-30 and 2200 cal. no harm, right? Well, I guess not, because the weight would not go!

Though I haven't suffered insomnia since college, (stress) one thing I definately have noticed, when I DON"T drink, I sleep better! I sleep harder, and wake up more refreshed!

A few motivators that have worked for me:
-Practicing what I preach, especially for the sake of my children (I believe a big factor in my own drinking was/is my parents habits of overindulgence)
-Break this _____ stall!
-A commitment to rise early for intense physical training, which, BTW, helps in the ability to fall asleep naturally.

Thanks for the opportunity to share. It is always so good to know you're not the only one struggling.

[Joanna]

I think what you said is really interesting. Since I've been lo-carbing I've noticed a real similarity in the way I approach alcohol and the way I used to approach carbs. I would eat too much at a time; I would eat until I was almost disgusted with myself. I'm not a binge drinker, but I will admit that sometimes I find I've drunk far more than I want to without thinking about it too much. My carb 'addiction' leaned toward things like potato chips and cheezies, and I could make a good dent in a large bag of Ruffles!

So I'm trying to approach the alcohol thing now in those terms. I know it alters your brain chemistry -- that's why that first drink is soooo good, but I wonder whether that can be controlled. If I make a concentrated effort, with the knowledge of how I relate and react to certain foods, can I control my alcohol intake in the same way that I've learned to control my carb intake?

Sure would like to.

All the best,

Joanna

[Karen]

I'll add a bit of my own history in here because I think it's relevant...

I used to be a heavy drinker. It was nothing to finish a bottle of red wine in an evening. I never wondered if I was an alcoholic because I only drank at night and had no problems - ha! - with my day to day life because of it.

Well, one day, I miraculously lost my taste for drinking. It just didn't fill the need anymore and it I was also starting to fear for my health. What I didn't notice was that lots of sugar was creeping back into my way of eating along with all the other carbs I was eating. I thought for sure weight loss with follow with the lack of drinking. With what I know now, it's a complete joke!

My drinking career was short. It only lasted for about 10 years. My sugar career has been with me for most of my life.

When I started LC, I thought I had found the miracle cure, and in a way I had. LC taught me that I was indeed an addict and I never would have found out otherwise. Maybe I would have found out, as I eventually kept growing desperately larger and larger with no end in sight.

LC is a perfect way of eating for me. It's given me great energy, stability, calmness, fat loss and very good health. And, it was extremely hard at first. Now, it's second nature to eat this way.

I focus more on recovery than fat loss now. I know what my triggers are and the whys, wheres and hows, but it didn't make a whit of difference until I started working on the spiritual aspect of recovery. I didn't want to white knuckle it. What I wanted was to be at peace.

Karen

[missatc]

Karen, thanks for sharing,

I agree wholeheartedly about the "white knuckle ride". I don't want to feel "deprived". Quite frankly, I don't tolerate that "feeling" too well at all. So I have to approach the situation from a different perspective.

- I DO like to feel good when I wake up, mentally and phsically. (drinking too much would leave more of a guilt trip than a hangover).

-I DO like having energy and motivation to exercise regularly.

-I DO like knowing I am being obedient to my creator. (again, not abstinence, just not abuse)

-I Do like making a positve influence on my children and the decisions they will have to make for themselves.

-I DO like losing weight. ;) (That's what started all this :) )

I am sure there are a few more "I DO's" (I think I will post them in my journal as I think of them. ) This brings me to the thought that for the first time in longer than I can remember, I feel like I am breaking out of the visious (sp?) cycle of: - feeling bad-do something to feel better-overeat/overconsume (alcohol) (One of the great lies I allowed into my life :mad: )-feel better for awhile-feel bad again. The beginning of the "break" was getting off the sugar! Why don't Dr.s suggest that when treating mild depression? It has made a world of difference for me!

[Joanna]

that despite my last post I really do think that when it comes to alcohol, we're dealing with a very difficult addiction. It probably IS connected with carb sensitivity, and as Kathleen Desmaisons says in 'Potatoes not Prozac', most alchoholics are sugar sensitive. (Probably why you started eating more sugar, Karen when you gave up your wine.)

But, once I got started low carbing, I really didn't crave carbs, but if I try to stop drinking (I know, I stopped for three months last year), I REALLY miss the drinks. I don't shake or anything, but I do have to make a conscious effort every time to not have one.

It reminds me more of smoking than anything else. But it's even more difficult in some ways because it's so much more socially acceptable.

Interesting you should talk about the spiritual side of things Karen. I think that's where my help will come from.

It's probably more about finding out who you are and where you fit in the universe than anything else.

Take care all,

Joanna

[osuzana]

When I first decided to write about my problem I wasn't sure I really wanted to post it, I was a little embarassed. I am now so glad I did. :daze: Lately I have been taking myself apart mentally because I can't seem to just cast aside the one thing that makes me fat.....drinking wine.... I am really not a big eater, and definitely have never had an urge for sweets. But I am the carb addict who loves pasta, rice, bread, potatoes. We were raised on these types of foods, they were inexpensive. There were 5 kids in my family when I was growing up. And my parents didn't have a lot of money. So I know how I got started with my carb problem.
When I was pregnant with my first two children I was a gestational diabetic....so with my third pregnancy my doctor got smart and put me on my first lo carb... high protein diet. What a difference for me and the baby!
Now I am pre menopause, and losing weight is the battle of all battles.... Trying to not drink any wine has become another battle. Good Grief seems like a person can't have any fun! :cry:
It's not like the wine brings me down, or makes me misbehave, or makes me mean or a bad person..... darn it....it just makes me feel relaxed and a little mellow. So what is wrong with that? :confused:
I know ...I know... I'm just letting you all in on the arguments that go on in my head about my problem. :rolleyes:
But I will continue on with my battle, and be thankful that I found this site, :yay: because at least I am now able to be in touch and openly discuss this issue with people who know about it because they are there, or have been there. :)
I am truly Thankful and Grateful for you all :rheart: Osuzana

[Karen]

Why don't you do the full-on Atkins induction and see how you feel after 2 weeks? Tackle one thing at a time. When you're more clear headed from carb detox, then you can think about what you want to do next. You sound like your on the brink of change. Don't let your past hold you back.

It's not only the wine that makes you fat. Red wine has approximately .5 grams per ounce and white has .25 which is not that bad. It's your daily eating and drinking choices that matter. Bad carbs cause your insulin to store fat. It doesn't matter if they come from bread or chocolate.

Karen

[osuzana]

Hello Karen
You are very inspiring to me. I have been trying to do Atkins, but as I said I always cheat and have the wine after the day is done.
Not only that, as I sit here and type this, it is 8am and I am answering e-mails and of course reading threads here on "locarber", plus I'm on my second cup of coffee . So I guess I'm not really doing Atkins now am I? :confused:
You are so right when you suggest I am on the brink of change. :agree:
About 8 years ago I also miraculously (sp) lost my need to drink wine. It was amazing, I was doing a low carb plan then too. I was about 3 weeks into it, and walking every day and using that time for meditation and prayer. I live in the Adirondacks, and quiet back roads are beautiful and inspiring places for spiritual mental journeys. One day as I was walking and praying, and asking God to help me with my problem (as I had been doing for weeks) , I felt answered and lifted, and definitely knew I would not have a problem with giving up drinking from that point on. It was just that way. Like a little miracle, I almost couldn't believe it! I lost 25 pounds and didn't drink for 6 months. :sunny: I did develop a really bad sciatic nerve problem in my hip and leg, and had to eventually forgo my long walks. I also slowly let go of my spiritual time with God. :rolleyes: I was thin and Thankful, and slowly started drinking again, around the Holidays. I was sure I would be able to manage myself and not get into the position I was in before I began my quest.
Well I was foolish! :confused: .....Here I am years later trying the same plan, only it just doesn't seem to be working. I know God is listening, But maybre he is too busy for me right now :p The world needs him in a big way right now! Besides I think he is making it harder this time around because he wants me to remember it , so I don't mess up again. :eek:
I know I could not have done it without spiritual help the first time, and I know the same thing now. Your note to me, just reminded me of what I really need to get through this. (Thank You) ....It has re-enforced me and given me more strength and determination to keep on walking and praying, I know it will work, and I know when it does I will not go back to my old ways ever again. I have learned it is just too difficult to start all over!
I am curious about how your miricle happened! Were you trying to do the diet and still drinking? And what exactly ( If I may ask) made you stop?
You mentioned that wine does not have a lot of carbs, I realize that, but for some reason it completely stops my weight loss, even when I carefully figure in the carbs. As I said I am really NOT a big eater, even though I look like I am.
Sorry this is so long, but I needed to get it out. :)
:rheart: Susann

[Joanna]

Maybe there ISN'T anything wrong witht he wine that you drink, but if, like me, you sometimes feel uncomfortable with it, something's not right.

At the same time, don't beat yourself up about it. Perhaps instead of full strength wine you could try a wine spritzer or two before bed -- see how that works.

Above all, don't look at it as a failing, but as a chance to know yourself better.

Ttake care,

Joanna :there:

[Karen]

I am curious about how your miricle happened!

It happened way before I started LC and I really don't know how it happened. I would like to think that it was my body - concerned with my survival - signaling my brain to stop. When I stopped drinking, I replaced it with sugar addiction. Then years later, I came upon LC and realized that I replaced one with the other.

I believe that your Higher Power is always there and ready to listen and advise. Sometimes we're just not ready or willing to listen which is fine. I also believe that your Higher Power will not put anything on your plate that you're not ready to swallow.

A book that you may find inspiring to read and easy to follow is Potatoes Not Prozac. With her plan, you gradually replace all the white things you eat. It's designed to heal your metabolism and her story is quite inspiring. If this idea sounds comfortable to you, I would focus on healing, rather than weight loss.

A lot of low carbers drink coffee! I wouldn't worry about it!

Karen

[osuzana]

I think in the next few days If I can get the time, I will start the journal here, first I have to figure out how to do it......
It will probably make an interesting read about a month from now. :p Maybe my adventure will help someone else....That would be nice :daizy:
Who wrote the book "Potatoes not Prozac'? I will get it.
Joanna, thanks for your ideas, I welcome them, they are pretty good. I have done the spritzer thing and it's not a bad idea, I'll let you know how it goes in the next few days.... Usually if I can go 2 or three nights without, then I'm on a roll. :roll: I'm just gonna keep on keepin on

(as my mother used to call me) OH.....Suzanna

[Karen]

Who wrote the book "Potatoes not Prozac'?

Kathleen Desmaisons

Karen

[doingwell]

This was one of the best posts I've read in awhile. It's so nice to have such support from everyone. Osuzana, hang in there and don't beat yourself up. I, too, loved my vodka and red wine but after LCing since Feb I find it made me feel so bad in the morning it wasn't worth it. Not that it is easy to give up but I do think twice about indulging. One thing I did was substitute a glass of mineral water, in a pretty wine glass garnished with a piece of lemon. One of my favorite times was when my husband came home from the office and we would have our drinks (he, beer and me, wine) and talk about our day.(I would save my martini's for the weekends). What I found was that the one glass I would have with him would turn into 2 and then more with dinner. I would not sleep well and feel very groggy in the morning. When I started to substitute the wine with the mineral water I found that it was more of a habit than anything and didn't miss the wine. And because I slept well and felt so much better in the morning that was a good reminder in the evening! There are still times where I will get lazy and have more than one glass but I'm always reminded in the a.m. Habits are hard to break but you can do it! Good luck and let us know how you are doing! :roll:

[skiwi_nz]

Osuzana

I am on the Montignac low carb diet and have for years enjoyed red wine. On this diet we are allowed red wine after a meal. So I still have my 2 glasess after 9 PM and throughly enjoy them. Red wine has health benefits and I can only hope it is counter acting all that fat that I am now eating and will keep the blood flowing freely through me

[osuzana]

Thank you all so much for your encouragement :daizy: I have to say it is so good to still be hearing from people on this subject. There seems to be a lot of interest in this subject, and I am glad. :D It helps me to know that I am not all by myself in this struggle. I know I will be able to get a handle on this eventually, mainly because I am really looking for a change.
I bought the book "Potatoes not Prozac," and found it to be very interesting.... It certainly had a lot written in there about me :rolleyes: I think I will follow this program and see where it leads me... One good thing is, I happen to love Potatoes :yum:
Karen suggested I get the book. Thank you Karen, good advice.
I am very curious if anyone else here on this site has followed the program.... I would love to here from you, on how you managed, and how the program worked for you, maybe I should post a new thread with that Topic...... :rheart: Osuzana

[janis]

I hope we can continue with this thread, because it's something I'm dealing with too. I used to lose quite well without worrying about alcohol but now within 10 lbs or so of my goal I feel that the wine is the only thing standing in the way. Right now I don't feel I have a problem because I've just come back from a week's vacation and have been drinking much less than usual (couldn't afford to, in restaurants!) but other times I have felt it may be causing health problems and exacerbating a middle-age depression. So I hope we can all help each other out here. Without losing our low-carb focus, of course!

By the way, I'm unclear on the Potatoes and Prozac--are you supposed to eat potatoes (not a chance) or avoid them (you're supposed to avoid white food, right?)

Janis :daze:

[osuzana]

:wave:
What I gathered from the book and the web site was that people who are sugar addicts benefit greatly from this program. :thup: It is more of a healing for sugar and alcohol users, who continue to crave one or the other. Many people today suffer from depression and they are on 'Prozac" The program offers a way to naturally pull your self away from these addictions, so you can get on with losing weight without such a struggle. :confused:
The potato is eaten every night before bed to balance seratonin levels in the brain, which are out of wack in all people who are ssugar addicts. Wine is the most simple form of sugar there is, so the body burns it before anything else. That is why I, and others who consume it don't lose weight normally.
I am thinking of doing this program, but I will not be able to do the lo carb because of the potatoes and other aspects of the plan.... which kinda bothers me because I love the way I feel on a low carb diet. I'm still reading the book and giving it deep thought! :roll:

[Karen]

The chapter on losing weight is in the middle of the book. What she says essentially is that you have to start with the healing process in mind, not weight loss. You shift towards green things rather than brown things, which along with protein at every meal puts you on a LC plan.

Karen

[osuzana]

:rolleyes: Oh!

[phoebe-tom]

Yep red wine.............why did they ever invent the stuff??? that's what i think some days..
I totally relate to u, susanna, and i too spend countless days thinking "Right, from today i'm not going to drink any wine today, or on a weekday" and before wednesday is here i'm looking to see if we've got any red wine in the pantry.

My friend recently had a heart attack and he's only 43! He has always mocked me and my WOL and WOE but i justed told him it worked for me and we never really talked too much about it. Well, in the hospital last week we all sat talking to the Sister and she was talking about his lifestyle and he said "i only drink red wine and diet cokes" ( which is true! not together u understand!)
And she said that red wine was perfectly safe. In fact TWO GLASSES a day is Reccommended!!!!!
And do u know what i did.......I interpreted that into "it's ok to drink two glasses of wine a day...even when i couldn't stop drinking if i WANTED TO!" I made it say that i DON'T have a problem....do u understand what i'm saying. She was talking about in terms of post coronary health, not general everyday life, not in alcoholics everyday life!

It's only after thinking about it that i realise what i've been trying to do. KID MYSELF! I have a fantastic partner,a lovely house, a lovely dog and a wicked job and i'm doing a brilliant eating and exercising plan to give myself the optimum body shape and size and to be strong and healthy, i don't smoke and i don't do DRUGS and i don't even drink caffeine..........................
But i still have to fill a gap ( where it is i don't know) with the alcohol.

I hope you don't mind me venting like this but it's the first time i've talked to anyone other than tom about this.

I'm actually very happy to be typing this, even though it upsets me to know it's ME and it's true.

I have friends who are pretty similar to me, but their partners are the same too so i suppose their behaviour doesn't seem so odd.

Well i hope you all keep this thread going as this has done me the world of good.... thank you all for being so honest.

I mentioned that i think of wine as filling a gap. When i was in my 20's i used to buy a can or two of cider on my way home from work and drink it on the way home, before my mom could see!That was because i hated my job.
Then as i got older i used to drink in the pub with my friends and luckily they seemed to get drunk much quicker than me so it sort of stopped me in my tracks.

Then over the last two years i've been drinking red wine when i want to "chill" or if i'm "stressed" and i'm now listening to some excellent music and it's making me realise that there are other ways to "chill" and "relax". I even try and fool myself by giving it up for a week and then i am convinced if i wanted to i could drop it altogether........ What a fool!

I think it used to be the way i felt after a drink, but after drinking a couple of bottles most weeks for about 2 years i don't think i get that anymore. I used to like how i didn't feel sad or fed up or bored anymore!!!!! I mean who drinks just when they're bored. I am pitiful..... i know that already.

I'm going to go and have a few minutes now because i have some serious thinking to do.

Thanx to you all
Have a fantastic day and i hope to speak to you all soon
Phoebe

[Joanna]

You are not pityful!!!! In fact, to face yourself so honestly takes a HUGE amount of courage. I know, because I still can't face up to the fact that I hve a drinking "problem", and I attend AA meetings!!! How pathetic is that???

One thing I've learned there (in the three meetings I've been to) is that all alcoholics are trying to fill that 'hole'. Being an alcoholic is about not knowing who you are. It's NOT abut being weak and bad and hopeless.

Oh hell, I'm at work and can't do this. I don't have time. But Stay in touch. I'll try to write mor tomorrow!!

All the best,

Joanna

[L Fesler]

I am so thankful for this forum. I love wine....I have not drank very much since Lc-ing....I miss it though and I think about it. Thanks for letting me listen in, so to speak, and to learn. I appreciate all of you and the way you share so openly.
Linda

[phoebe-tom]

I've walked with the dog this morning and had a good think about all the bits of my life that i am totally in charge of.

the only think i do fall back on is alcohol.

Now is the time to put all my piece back into the equation and realise that alcohol isn't included.

I think it will be hard to say i'll never drink again because when i haven't had a drink for a week (usually my limit) then the first drink i have is so fantastic, that i think what stops me from completely quitting is the thought of not having that feeling again.

I know alot of it is psychological as with smokers and haing something to do with their hands, etc, but it has to be a step towards being in control of it and i need to tell myself that i don't need a glass of wine to relax or "chill" and infact i already know"my" alternatives - a huge pot of decaf tea while i watch a soppy film with a creamy cheesecake (PP of course) or a couple of crispbreads and egg mayo. Or even a beautiful tall glass filled with ice and diet orange- with some yoghurt(orange and wholewheat). See i already have the alternatives but i can't seem to put them into practise.

But yesterday was a bit of a breakthrough for me- just writing all the stuff i did brought it right to the forefront of my consciousness and MADE me make a decision.

So let's see if the gap - though what it is i don't know - is filled with all the other fab things that i do and try to find other ways to chill out rather than blotting out any bad bits with a couple of drinks.

Thanx again everyone

Phoebe X X

[prsloan]

Osuzana,

I so agree with everything that's been posted thus far...alcohol is baffling and cunning...serenity will come tho' if you keep seeking it.

I just wanted to add that about a year ago, after a rough couple of months with teenagers, I made an app't with a doctor - told the receptionist I needed to see him due to EXTREME STRESS!

After being quite thorough and honest with him as he took my history, including the fact that I hadn't slept more than 3-4 hours for many years, he precsribed an anti-depressant for me called "Remeron."

The main 'side-effect' is sleepiness so you take it 30 minutes before bedtime...and it works beautifully!

I can't begin to tell you what a treat it is to sleep again! I just feel it has been such a healthy change in my life.

AND, the teens are not so 'out of control' anymore - mama has learned to set boundaries, and that's been good for all of us!

The depression has lifted as well - I look at life totally differently these days...on a follow-up visit, the doctor said I have chronic depression and could stay on this indefinitely.

I do believe I have suffered from it for a lifetime, and had I been properly diagnosed and treated years ago, many things in our lives would have been different.

NOW, this may scare anyone on this forum about Remeron - the other side effect (in 17% of the users who take it), is increased appetite.

Yep - before LC, I gained 20 pounds in a year, BUT since April 3rd when I started Atkins/CALP, I have been doing just fine...14 pounds lost!

So I am convinced that the carb cravings certainly put much more weight on me than the Remeron.

[osuzana]

Phoebe-Tom :wave:
Wow what a great letter: One thing for sure this post has allowed us to speak the truth about ourselves, and that alone enlightens us to our selves and others who dare to admit we have a problem, or maybe we don't have a problem, but as one of the replies here stated "If we think we do, then we probably do"
I know for sure that my problem with wine is, that I really like the sedating feeling it gives me after a long hard day of life. Like yesterday, when my husband and I had to put our beautiful 12 year old mixed Cocker Spaniel "Fergie" to sleep forever. My heart broke, and we had such a difficult time and difficult day. By 9pm I just wanted to crawl onto my living room couch with a glass of wine and close my burning swollen tear filled eyes :cry: and drift off. I did just that, and finally slept for the first time in days.
I know that I need to not depend on the wine for this, but I also know that I just really like how it makes me feel. Especially on occasions such as this. :confused:

[GatorGal93]

My extreme condolences to you and your husband.

Julie

[osuzana]

:wave: Prsloan;
I don't think I have ever heard of Remeron, Is it something new?
I had been diagnoased as being depressed about 2 years ago. :(
Although I never thought of my self that way, I always try to be up-beat and happy on the outside, so I was surprised when the Doctor perscribed "Celexa" It had side affects, such as weight gain, and decresed sexual drive.... Good Grief!!! :eek: I'm going through pre- menopause... I don't have a hell of a lot of sex drive as it is... and to me that's a perscription for divorce! And I love my DH. Sooooo I didn't take it! I chose to stay with my wine instead. But I am interested in the Remeron, I thank you for posting your information on it. ;)

[osuzana]

Gator Gal 93

:rheart: Thank You!

[GatorGal93]

Yes, I sincerely mean it. I live alone and my pet is my best roommate. I understand the loss very well.

I have been lurking on this post for some time. Maybe one day I will post.

Julie

[Joanna]

So sorry to hear about Fergie! Saying goodbye to your pet is absolutely heart-wrenching.

The only thing you can say to yourself is that she's comfortable now. I remember when my first Wheaton Terrier died suddenly at seven years of age (heart attack), how devastated I felt. All I could do was imagine her at her happiest and best, and then believe that she was somewhere, feeling just like that.

This thread is really interesting, and thank you Susann for bringing it up. One thing I'm learning at AA is that alcoholism is FAR more prevalent than we think. It's like a whole subculture of people who, while a LONG way from the gutter, or hiding bottles in their laundry baskets, nonetheless have become dependent on the stuff. I'm one of them, but I'm hoping that I can learn to control my intake rather than give it up forever.

I'm impressed with the program. It's utterly non-judgemental and focusses on really living your life, rather than just cruising through it. But as I said to one of the ladies at the meeting yesterday: "I'd really like to follow the program and drink too!". She just laughed. :rolleyes:

There's a lot of humour there. And a whole lot of support for those who want it. I'd recommend it to anyone.

Onec again, my sympathies.

Joanna

[prsloan]

Osuzana,

I hadn't ever heard of Remeron before either - this was a younger doctor who is really 'up' on the latest...

All I can say is it's worked wonders for me.

As far as sex drive, doesn't seem to have affected that!

Prsloan

[L Fesler]

Hi Suzana, We have a little Yorkie and he is the delight of our daily lives. We have a grandchild and another on the way and this in no way takes away from them. I am so sorry for your loss. It is heart breaking and traumatic to lose a friend. Friends are hard to cultivate and keep. Human friends do not give the undonditional love that dogs do.
Just wanted you to know that there are many of us who understand. Thanks again for sharing about 'wine'. Has helped me begin thinking and moving toward change.
Linda

[missatc]

Hi friends, I haven't posted since this thread was first started, but I have definately been staying current with it. I am glad to see people come forward to themselves and to others with their alcohol struggles, whatever the degree of addiction.

I agree with JOANNA, I don't want to give it up forever. I do want to be in control of my consumption and not the other way around. Since starting LCing, this has been easier. I look at red wine as a "trigger food" and have stayed away from it for over a couple of weeks now. I have had A beer, and last Sat. afternoon/evening, DH and I enjoyed two mixed drinks together. In the past, once I started inbibing, I wouldn't stop until very intoxicated, or bedtime. Last week, I simply didn't want anymore, (vodka/raspberry dietrite). I know if it had been red wine, it would've been another story. Still have some growing to do there!!

I also wanted to share about an "all-natural" supplement I started taking in 2/02. "BeCalmed" . I too suffer from depression (my job doesn't allow me to take ANY meds for depression) and I have found this supplement (along w/LCing) to make me feel as good as I did last year when on CELEXA and ZOLOFT without any of the bummer side effects. (I had to take a leave of absence from work-acutally rather enjoyed that part of it-unfortunately, just stayed home and ate and ate and ate.)

I would encourage whoever is interested to check out the info available on the internet and of course if on perscription meds, be sure and talk to your Dr. first. I'm sorry I don't have the link, nor did I have the forsight to look up the address before starting this post. Just type "Becalmed" into your search engine and you should find what your looking for.

Suzana, I am so very sorry for the loss of your little loved one. I remember, when I was a teenager, crying for days when the miniture poodle I had grown up with contracted parvo and died in a very short period. I remember hearing my mom cry and that was the hardest :tears: We now have a golden retriever named Chance (there was NO chance I was going to have a dog-my son and husband eventually won me over :) ) Despite his digging, chewing, shedding, I love that dog!! and I know when his time comes, it is going to be heartache/break all over again. My sympathies for you, Suzana. I hope time will ease your heart and allow many happy memories to bring a smile to your day :) .

[GatorGal93]

http://www.becalmd.com/index4.htm

HTH,
Julie

P.S. But, beware of the evil pop up windows! :bash:

[missatc]

You are SO Cool!! :cool:

Thank-you, Julie :wave:

[DuPont]

If you really want to kick the habit, get some 5htp and take it before dinner. It will relax you, kill the craving for alcohol, and you will sleep better, and feel better in the morning. :thup:

[osuzana]

:wave:
O K....O K..... What the heck is 5htp and where do we get it? :confused: :daze: :D

[Karen]

5 HTP is short for 5-hydroxytryptophan, a supplement that enhances seratonin activity in the brain. It's currently being used in some applications as an alternative to Prozac.

There is an explanation of it here: 5 HTP (http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html)

Karen

[DuPont]

Here's another link:
http://www.smart-publications.com/books/5htp/toc.html

I took 500mg/day of 5htp for 2 years for depression. I slept better, had no cravings for alcohol, the only other side effects I had, was that I was tired in the begining until my body adjusted to the dosage. Nature's way 5htp with B6 &C is guaranted pure and free from all impurities including peak X, (I'm assuming you read the article listed above). It is also enteric coated so that the pills do not get broken down until they reach your small intestine, therefore no stomach upset.

By the way I no longer suffer from depression. :roll:

[osuzana]

:wave: Thank You for the info.... I think I'll wait for long term testing.... and maybe opt for the "potato" instead. Too many scarey stories there for me, I am a medical chicken, when it comes to taking things that have not been tested long term. :daze: The information was appreciated, and it 's explination was very thorough :rheart: Osuzana

[phoebe-tom]

:tears: I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. We have just passed our 1st anniversary of Lizzie's death (she was 14). And she lived with my mom and me until i left home when she was 10 and she had liver failure. I couldn't even get the blasted day off work to go with my mom and sister to the vets.

I know how you are feeling. I do have another dog now she's three and she is our "baby" i don't care what anyone says.

I'm sooooo grateful for this thread it's done me the world of good.

I've tried to think about how i'm going to solve my "problem".

I've thought about this many times , usually in the morning and said "never again!" and not only if i'd been absolutely drunk, just when i wake up feeling rough and then realise i had 3/4's of a bottle of wine the night before.
So i decide i'm never drinking again EVER. :nono:

Then 3 or 4 days of being really proud of myself i say ok then i'll change the goals to Just a glass at weekends! That one is the best i've done yet (1 week!).
But then i go out for a meal with friends and i think well it's a special occasion, so i have one or two glasses and have no pudding so food wise i don't feel guilty and on the way home i get a bottle from the off licence!!! (thinking : it's ok coz i didn't have a pudding so i've restricted myself there!!!! :bash:

What a FOOL!
Soon it's ok to open a bottle with our evening meal and finish it off.Tom also asks me not to drink too much because he knows i open a bottle and pretty much will try and finish it. It doesn't help that it seems the "norm" on TV or at work or friends house's to have a glass of wine or a beer whilst watching tv or sitting in the garden.....but it's having just one that is my real problem

Saying all this - i haven't had a drink for 2 days and i'm trying really hard with my Body for Life program / low carbing so why shouldn't my initial goal be 12 weeks (or 9 weeks as i'm on weeks three already)! ! Till the end of my first challenge.
:confused: NO CHANCE!
That's what i think, but i'm trying to think of something that will give me a light at the end of the tunnel (if u know what i mean!)

But something which isn't TOO easy....if it's just drink every other day then i'll have twice as much every other day so i'll not benefit from that but if it's something i have to make a conscious effort at , then maybe i can really stick it out.

I don't know what i'll do yet, but for now i'm just avoiding it and thinking of my carbs and exercise more.

Right that's my nonsense for today all the best to everyone.
Speak to you all soon.
Phoebe x x

[Joanna]

You're seven hours ahead of me, so I'm wondering how you're doing this evening!

Phoebe, I'd say your problem is very similar to mine, but take heart, low-carbing may actually be the solution for that too.

I've been doing some version of carb control for nearly four years now, with varying amounts of dilegence and success. At the same time, I've noticed that progressively, I haven't been able to drink the same amont I used to without getting unpleasantly drunk (although until recently I've kept on trying :) ).

Then someone on this thread (yes, this one!!) turned a light bulb on in my head :idea: when she said that since she started LCing, she can take or leave alcohol, because the effects are so much more pronounced. And it hit me -- wihout all the carbs in your stomach to absorb the booze, it just gets funnelled straight through. NO WONDER I feel so awful when I try to drink as I used to!!!

Anyhow, for the last week or so, I've paid careful attention to how I feel after each glass of wine (or drink), and I've discovered that the perfect amount over the evening seems to be two. Any more and I start feeling unpleasant.

So I'm going to continue to go to my ladies AA meetings (Just in case! ;) ), and at the same time I'm going to take a lot more care with my drinks.

I'm also going to start doing something with my evenings so I'm not stuck in the same routine that allows me to do nothing but read or watch TV until bedtime.

It's all very interesting, but the correlation between lower carb and less tolerence is striking. Why didn't I see it before?

All the best,

Joanna

[janis]

Well, I just got on the net this morning and ordered a bottle of 5-htp. I'll keep you all posted on what happens. One of its effects is to lessen carb cravings, which I would say I almost never experience--except that alcohol is a form of sugar, isn't it, so it might be helpful that way.

Staff get-together after work today. I know I can do it low-carb but not low-wine. My willpower is just not with me these days, that's why I'm hoping a pill will work, even if it's just psychological.

Janis :thup:

[osuzana]

:wave: I am curious as to the size glass everyone drinks from, The recommended size is usually one--- 4 1/2 oz. glass :( I personally dont know anyone who only drinks this amount of wine. I use a 7 oz. glass, and usually have 2 and if I'm amongst friends :rolleyes: I usually manage to down 3 glasses. This is really too much I am sure, but when I am with friends this always happens. :confused:
I am aware that the French people drink wine several times during the day, :yum: and are for the most part, pretty healthy, so I have heard! I wonder what their consumption average per person per day is???

[Joanna]

I've never seen it, but apparently the French used to have a poster advertising the benefits of drinking red wine, and the caption was: "No more than a litre a day!" :eek:

Personally, an average glass of wine for me is somewhere between 4 and 6 oz -- I know, I measured it once. Difficulties arise if my husband tops it up before I'm finished. Then I lose track.

An article in this month's edition of Science is extolling the virtues of red wine in preventing colds. In the study carried out, those who drank two glasses a day had 30% fewer colds than those that didn't drink, and those who drank more than two had 44% fewer colds!

They don't make it easy to give it up, do they? :D

To your health!

Joanna

[Joanna]

That study on red wine and colds was in the American Journal of Epidemiology.

(Science had a study on how having boys rather than girsl can shorten your life!)

:)

[phoebe-tom]

I'm fine...though i have broken my "fast" of nil alcohol!

BUT i did it after thought and i was going to a balti restaurant and i didn't want wine because last time i had almost a bottle to myself ........ and i am making conscious decisions with my amounts as i hope i can then be more in control of what i drink or don't drink. So..... i decided i would have 2 cans of cider (i've been known to buy 4 and drink 3 in a sitting!) and NO MORE.

Well it's weird you mentioning it about how such little amounts affect you, because i felt abit tipsy after just 1/2 pint which is not normal! And i actually left a whole glass because i just felt like i'd had loads and loads and i was well pleased to be able to leave some and not be bothered.

So even though i didn't say to myself NO i did think about it before hand and decided to have some but limit it. I am actually proud of doing that just as much as not drinking but i have to stay focused to say no to it tonight as i want to not drink now for another couple of days.

Wish me luck folks

Phoebe :wave:

[missatc]

I'm rooting for ya Phoebe!

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer::cheer: :cheer:


BTW, job well done for making a plan and sticking to it!! Having control over your intake, and NOT the other way around is a very BIG deal! Congrats!

[Tiffy]

This is a great thread and I relate so much!!
I've been doing Adkins for some time but not with too much thought...I just limit my carbs and of course stay away from bread/pasta/rice. I don't keep count as I really never had much too lose and just wanted to do something about my fat "gut".
So far the scale says I haven't lost at all but all my size 7 shorts are too big and I now fit into my 5's again!! :)
I still have some gut and flab but overall I'm happy and not as embarassed to been seen in my swimsuit.
Sooooo all that is good but I too drink my wine (white) and have really noticed how it goes to my head alot faster. This really bothers me and I've found myself thinking about it alot. I don't want to give up the wine yet I find myself "drunk" almost every single night. :(
Last night I seemed fine until right when my husband came home from work (11 pm). I got up for just one more glass and came back to the couch to talk to hubby. Then just like that I felt totally out of it. And of course I then tried to "control" myself so he wouldn't notice and got myself to bed.
I just don't like that feeling!! Doing LC just doesn't seem to mix with drinking, yet I want to do both. :(
Anyway, just sharing and thanks for sharing too!!

In a way this thread IS like a AA meeting where we still drink! :)

[Marti66]

What a thread! This is great!

Here's my story...I don't drink, or should I say; I probably have 4 weak 7&7's a year divided into 2 days. Until today, I was considering starting to drink on a nightly basis. Yeah, go figure!

I keep hearing about the benefits of wine. So I went out and bought a bottle a couple of weeks ago, even though "I don't like wine...at all !" Every night I see it and I tell myself I'll start drinking "tomorrow" because "it's good for me". Kind of like medicine, I guess. You guys have helped me kick a habit I hadn't even started!

Amazing........

[Thinny]

I come from an alcoholic family. The ones who didn't drink too much were either overweight or diabetic or both. Overweight is my problem. I have always been afraid, and rightly so, of getting to like booze a little too much - and my particular poison is wine.
Susan Powter, that misguided apostle of low fattery, only finally got free of her alcohol problems when she added very good supplements to her diet and - I'm fuzzy on the details here - believe she ate more veggies and fewer grain carbs than she had preached formerly. I do know that she used to keep grain carbs everywhere to feed her constant hunger. Small wonder she also turned to alcohol as well. But once she gave her body what it needed, she finally got control. :)

[osuzana]

:wave: Hi Marti66

When I first decided to start this thread I wasn't sure I should. In the back of my mind, thoughts were lurking that I would be thought of as weak willed, also I was a bit embarrassed by admitting I thought I had a problem. :rolleyes:
But after reading your note here, I had to chuckle :lol: It was too cute, and I also was delighted that I did decide to start the thread, especially after you said it helped you "kick a habit before it started". :clap: I am SO GLAD for that! I am also glad that so many others have felt comfortable enough to communicate with each other on this subject, I am not glad that they might have a problem like mine, but I am comforted in that I am not alone. :agree:
You know, ... there are other things you can do instead of drinking wine, and get the same health benefits. Eating Salmon regularly, and taking Grape seed extract, I am sure there are other supplements that work just as well. ANd if this thread keeps going I'll bet you will hear from the others on all kinds of things you can do. I started drinking wine long before we were told by the so called experts (whom ever they are) that it was a health benefit as long as you didn't over do it.:nono:
So in all honesty I wasn't drinking for the health benefit, but for the buzz I got and the relaxing qualities wine afforded me. :confused: When they finally came out with the fact that wine is actually healthy I was happy :roll: Now I keep waiting and hoping they will come out with another report that says "Susann go ahead and have a couple of glasses and don't worry about it, the so called experts say it is now safe to have 2 or 3 glasses because it will benefit weight loss" Hey ..... we all have our dreams .....Don't we? O Suzana:rheart:

[JimR-OCDS]

Well I'm glade I did a search for wine and found this thread!

I too love my glass of red wine with my meals. The problem is, it's usually 3 glasses. Drinking wine is definitely part of my failures on LC WOE. It relaxes me, and takes my guard down and I lose the temptation to eat banned foods.

Also, alcohol is an energy killer. I've practiced tai chi and yoga over the past years and in all my reading, the masters say, "stay away from alcohol, because it is an energy killer."

Also, as far as sleep goes, you really don't get a restful night sleep after you've had even just on glass of wine.

In order to feel refreshed, you need 4 hrs of REM(rapid eye movement) level of sleep, per night. Alcohol will keep you from getting to this level of sleep. So, even though you slept all night, after having a little wine before bed, you don't feel refreshed, because you never made it to REM.

Now my question is; what are you drinking besides water, when you go out for dinner at a restaurant? I'm more fearful of the bad health effects of aspartame in diet coke, than I am of alcohol.

Could any of you provide me with some alternative choices to wine?

[phoebe-tom]

Thanx for your support Missatc but i'm afraid it was a little premature...............................
Well after posting on Saturday i actually did think i'd be ok with this " strategic choice" about when to drink and when not to.................................. :bash:

Maybe not.

We had a bottle of wine on Saturday night so that was a big no no and then on Sunday i thought more about it and didn't have any. (but it was tough! i thought about it a number of times!) But i was strong and said NO!

Then on Monday a friend came around for dinner and i knew he would want to have wine and because i'd made the most luscious chilli i thought "i'm entertaiing so it's ok!" And i had 4 glasses.

Then last night i just got home from work and felt fed up.....i feel abit like the people i work with (i've been there since january and the job itself is fantastic!) are seeing me as a bit of a dumping ground. I'll explain..... i'm only contracted to work 18 &1/2 hours a week (it's called job share) my week starts ~ 1.00pm Weds and i then work all day thurs and all day fri. But because 1 person is currently on sick leave and only doing 2 days and another is the other end of my week (mon, tue, weds am) the team which used to be 4 full timers is very short. So when they asked if i was interested in overtime i said "sure" :agree:

But now it feel like i'm being treated as the one who picks up everybodies slack ......including the deputy( who is annoying anyway but i've got over worse people than him) who is happy to tell me how much MORE money he is on than ME! :eek:

So yesterday was a bad day (part of a bad weekend really, drink wise!)

So i'm back to it now. I'm going to have to re think things and forget the plan thing....... coz it just doesn't do me any good and i feel worse for breaking the plan of action so i think "oh forget it".

Anyway i'm feeling much more positive today and i'm about to do my UBWO so speak to you all soon... and don't give up on yourselves easily. I think my biggest downfall is thinking it doesn't matter what i do anyway, because i'm trying to get a better body, a happier, healthier life and by giving up i'll get nothing......... I read in some ones journal a few weeks ago............ "the only time in life when you can coast is when your going downhill "......! And i'm NOT going downhill today!:wave:

Speak to you all soon.
Phoebe

[osuzana]

:wave: Hello everyone;
Could someone tell me how to start my journal? I have been ready to start it for a few days now but for some reason I can't seem to find instructions on how to start. :confused: I hope I don't appear dense... and I'm sure it's right in front of me, but lately I have a lot of brain fog.... :daze:

[osuzana]

Hi Phoebe :wave:

I read your post this morning, and I feel you should not beat your self up :bash: At least you are really trying! I know it is distressing to you, because you do so well and then life happens, and you fall down and skin your knees all over again! :confused:
I have done just that in the last 2 days. I was doing pretty well, I was waiting till late evening to have my wine, and that didn't afford me a lot of time to drink very much, so I was losing a little bit. But yesterday we went to a friends Birthday party, there were a lot of great people there and a lot of stuff to drink These people are drinkers! And I always come away from them knowing that I don't drink like that, and am glad that I do not! :agree:
I don't drink anything but wine, so that is what I had. Still I had more than my usual, because we were there from dinner time untill late evening. The food was good and of course it was a lot of stuff I have not touched in over a month.... Carbs! :rolleyes:
We came home and watched the late news and went to bed, but first I had another glass of wine with my hubby. I slept terrible, and this morning when I stepped on the scale I gained a pound and a half.... :mad: But not only that, I am mad at myself because I feel like I am not able to control this drinking thing.
But then when I get somewhat sensible, I resolve to keep on trying! I have been successful in the past, but I always made a wrong turn after my success, and would go back to my old ways of eating and drinking. The difference this time is that there is so much good news about Lo- Carb WOL, that I plan to stay eating this way, because it seems to do me a world of good. Keep your socks up Phoebe .... I just put mine back on and pulled them up.... stay in touch!:D :daizy:

[osuzana]

Hello JimR OCDS :wave:


I thought your post on alcohol and the sleep pattern was interesting. I have heard that information before, and know it is correct. My problem with sleep is not being able to get sleepy... :yawn: For some reason, I seem to become wide awake every evening around 9pm. That is the only reason I drink, because it slowly makes me drowsey, I never drink during the day, :nono: if I did I could not function !
I can't speak for anyone else, but my only other beverage is water... I don't care for soda or juices, to me they are just not healthy. Water is the best :roll:

[Karen]

Could someone tell me how to start my journal?

Go to the main support forum page by clicking support forum at the top right hand of the page. Then, go to the Journal forum. Start a thread under the "O" section - journals are kept alphabetically. That's your journal!

Karen

[JimR-OCDS]

osuzana, I often follow the Zone diet, more than the atkins diet lately. It seems to be easier, but it's also easier to cheat.

When I was on Atkins and behaving, I would have a hard time getting to sleep, and staying asleep. The problem turned out to be that I needed an evening snack, with some carbs in it. My blood sugar was dropping during the night and waking me up.

So, currently I'm on the Zone diet and part of the Zone diet is having a Zone favorable snack before bed. For me this includes,
1 orange or 1/2 of an apple cut up and mixed with 1/4 cup of cottage cheese and a sprinkle of almond slices. I sleep like a baby and feel refreshed in the morning. Refreshed of course unless I had some wine. Then I'll feel groggy the next day.

Anyway, you might look into having a snack with good carbs in it, before bed. Warm milk, would do the trick prehaps? You'll have to watch the total carb count for the day including this snack, if you chose to do it.

[osuzana]

Thank You Karen! :rheart:
I'm going to sit down tonight and begin it, I think it will be a big help for me to keep it up. I love to write anyway, when I'm not cooking at the Inn or working at the B & B. ;)

[Joanna]

Reading a fascinating book at the moment: 'Beyond the Influence: Understanding and Defeating Alcoholism'.

I'm about a third of the way through. The chapter I'm reading defines the difference between 'social' and 'problem' drinkers and alcoholics. It's good stuff for those of us who are wondering where we fit.

Check it out on Amazon!

Bye for now,

Joanna

[osuzana]

:wave: Hello JimR OCDS
I have all the books on the zone WOE .... I just never could get into taking the time to figure out all the portioning of the foods, as far as blocks go. Seemed like too much of a time consumer for me. But I do have the book "Potatoes not Prozac" (Reccommended to me by Karen) and the writer reccommends (did I spell that right ? doesn't look right ) eating a potato before bed. You have to eat the skin, that is important. Turns out potatoes with skin are slower to turn to sugar than other carbs, you cannot eat them with any proteins though, but you can have butter or salsa. :yum: I have tried this little remedy a few times and it does help. I just got the book about a week ago and still have a lot to read. But I thought you might like to try the potato if you like them.

[osuzana]

Joanna

Thanks for the Tip! I'm gonna check that out, where did you hear about it? I would love to know where I fit in. We went to a party last night and I know I don't fit in with the people we were with , We have been with them several times before. They definitely leave me in the dust when it comes to drinking.... I'm glad! :roll:
But I still never want to think that I would ever get to that point. I don't think I want to give up drinking all together because I really do enjoy the calm it gives me. But i would like to be able not to drink while I am trying so hard to lose weight. Maybe that little dream will just not work.... :( and I might have to face facts and just stop. ugh... It is so hard to think about never enjoying another glass of wine.... :eek:

[Joanna]

I borrowed the book from one of the ladies in the AA group. She's in her thirties, very pretty, quite well-off I think (drives a Range Rover), and gave up drinking because she said it "got in the way". It made it difficult for her to be the person she wanted to be. I thought that was really interesting.

Anyway -- she's got me pegged. I'm a science editor and need to see things explained in a logical way, complete with tests, charts and references! :D

I just completed all the tests at the end of the chapter and according to them I'm not just at risk for becoming alcoholic -- I am one!! Oh Yuk! :eek:

There must be a test SOMEWHERE that tells me I'm not!! :rolleyes: (Is that denial I hear?)

Yeah, the thought of giving it up completely really makes me sad. I've got a lot of thinking to do.

I remember giving up smoking in my twenties. I LOVED to smoke, but I realized that at more than a pack a day, it wouldn't be long before I really began to harm myself. I took a few runs at it, but then one day I just stopped and that was that. I can even pinpoint the time when became a non-smoker. It was as if a switch turned in my head.

I'm hoping the same thing will happen with this 'monkey'.

Take care all,

Joanna

[Karen]

Was this the questionnaire? This was taken from the A.A. website (http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/)


Only you can decide whether you want to give
A.A. a try — whether you think it can help you.

We who are in A.A. came because we finally gave up trying to control our drinking. We still hated to admit that we could never drink safely. Then we heard from other A.A. members that we were sick. (We thought so for years!) We found out that many people suffered from the same feelings of guilt and loneliness and hopelessness that we did. We found out that we had these feelings because we had the disease of alcoholism.

We decided to try and face up to what alcohol had done to us. Here are some of the questions we tried to answer honestly. If we answered YES to four or more questions, we were in deep trouble with our drinking. See how you do. Remember, there is no disgrace in facing up to the fact that you have a problem.


1 - Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days?
Most of us in A.A. made all kinds of promises to ourselves and to our families. We could not keep them. Then we came to A.A. A.A. said: "Just try not to drink today." (If you do not drink today, you cannot get drunk today.)

2 - Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking-- stop telling you what to do?
In A.A. we do not tell anyone to do anything. We just talk about our own drinking, the trouble we got into, and how we stopped. We will be glad to help you, if you want us to.

3 - Have you ever switched from one kind of drink to another in the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk?
We tried all kinds of ways. We made our drinks weak. Or just drank beer. Or we did not drink cocktails. Or only drank on weekends. You name it, we tried it. But if we drank anything with alcohol in it, we usually got drunk eventually.

4 - Have you had to have an eye-opener upon awakening during the past year?
Do you need a drink to get started, or to stop shaking? This is a pretty sure sign that you are not drinking "socially."

5 - Do you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble?
At one time or another, most of us have wondered why we were not like most people, who really can take it or leave it.

6 - Have you had problems connected with drinking during the past year?
Be honest! Doctors say that if you have a problem with alcohol and keep on drinking, it will get worse -- never better. Eventually, you will die, or end up in an institution for the rest of your life. The only hope is to stop drinking.

7 - Has your drinking caused trouble at home?
Before we came into A.A., most of us said that it was the people or problems at home that made us drink. We could not see that our drinking just made everything worse. It never solved problems anywhere or anytime.

8 - Do you ever try to get "extra" drinks at a party because you do not get enough?
Most of us used to have a "few" before we started out if we thought it was going to be that kind of party. And if drinks were not served fast enough, we would go some place else to get more.

9 - Do you tell yourself you can stop drinking any time you want to, even though you keep getting drunk when you don't mean to?
Many of us kidded ourselves into thinking that we drank because we wanted to. After we came into A.A., we found out that once we started to drink, we couldn't stop.

10 - Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking?
Many of us admit now that we "called in sick" lots of times when the truth was that we were hung-over or on a drunk.

11 - Do you have "blackouts"?
A "blackout" is when we have been drinking hours or days which we cannot remember. When we came to A.A., we found out that this is a pretty sure sign of alcoholic drinking.

12 - Have you ever felt that your life would be better if you did not drink?
Many of us started to drink because drinking made life seem better, at least for a while. By the time we got into .A., we felt trapped. We were drinking to live and living to drink. We were sick and tired of being sick and tired.

What's your score?
Did you answer YES four or more times? If so, you are probably in trouble with alcohol. Why do we say this? Because thousands of people in A.A. have said so for many years. They found out the truth about themselves — the hard way.

But again, only you can decide whether you think A.A. is for you. Try to keep an open mind on the subject. If the answer is YES, we will be glad to show you how we stopped drinking ourselves. Just call.

A.A. does not promise to solve your life's problems. But we can show you how we are learning to live without drinking "one day at a time." We stay away from that "first drink." If there is no first one, there cannot be a tenth one. And when we got rid of alcohol, we found that life became much more manageable.

Karen

[JimR-OCDS]

Susann,
Yes the Zone can be difficult to get follow at first. However, once you do, you have much better knowledge about the food you eat. It’s probably what most Atkins dieters who make it to maintenance know about food. Also, I do feel good being on it, but unlike Atkins, it’s easy to go over on carbs, because you’re taking in the max you should consume for the day, just following the diet. Which means a cheat has a greater negative impact than on Atkins. Myself, I haven't seen the weight-loss that I saw in Atkins, mostly because I cheat too often, but I’ve managed to maintain where I am, which is a good thing. I eat out, and I eat out often, which is where I usually have to have my two glasses of merlot and when I drink wine, I become loose and it’s easy for me to give into desert and other no-no’s.


The potato before bed thing may have to do with potassium. One of the things you have to be careful with, on the Atkins diet, is the lack of potassium, this is according to my doctor. My understanding is that potassium controls the rhythm of your heartbeat. Don’t get enough and you can have irregular heartbeat rhythms. Too much potassium can be dangerous. Lack of potassium can also cause insomnia.

[osuzana]

Hello JimR OCDS :wave:


Thank You for the note;


You mentioned a bit about Potassium, it does worry me a bit.
I take a water pill daily prescribed by my doctor. He had also prescribed a potassium pill along with it about 9 months ago....
I had severe stomach problems during the time I took the potassium, we did not connect it to the potassium, so he gave me Prylosec to help with the heartburn and uncomfortable feeling I had in my stomach. It didn't help! I went back to him and told him, He took me off the Potassium but kept me on the water pill.
Lo and behold my stomach problem went away and so did the heartburn... About two months ago I started taking supplements and potassium was included.... What do ya think? :confused:
Yep! Stomach problems started all over again, but it didn't register untill about a week later after I missed a dose or two of the supplements! I eliminated the potassium and have been fine ever since. :p
So now I wonder if Atkins is going to cause problems in this area for me. I take the water pill because my blood pressure is slightly elevated and I have edema. My Doc. thinks it's because of the weight I have gained in the past two years. I think it's a combination of a lot of things and wonder if drinking has something to do with it, although I have heard that wine is a diuretic. I have to wonder about that! :daze:
Anyway thanks for the tip. :D

[JimR-OCDS]

Susann,
I too suffer from heartburn. It goes almost completely away, when I stay low-carb. Wine does contribute to it.
Also, American wine has sulfates in it, and this could cause the problem of heartburn. Also, red wine has histamines, so I tend to get a running nose with posts nasal drip, which also causes heartburn.

O well! Like an old friend once said to me, "don't get old, it'll kill ya!" :D

[carbavoidr]

Hi you guys,
I had a chance to drop by and visit awhile and this thread caught my eye, because I am a drinker. other than the alcoholism problem that has been discussed, I would like to know if others like me simply included it in their lifestyle (without guilt). I don't drink every day, but when I drink its to catch a buzz. during a weight loss phase, I drink less, when in maintain mode I drink a few more. a coors light has five carbs, wine says 1.2 for a fluid ounce for dry, 2.3 for sweet. I just do the math and adjust carbs accordingly. I never eat when I drink, ruins the buzz :rolleyes: if you know you are going to drink 3 glasses of wine, adjust. do 20 sit ups, anything... I used to struggle with this too, then I realized that to say I was never going to drink again was not a goal, and this is a way of life, my life, one I want to enjoy and embrace, and if I get to lose weight meanwhile, well, that's a bonus, learning to eat a healthy low carb lifestyle is a facsinating journey. There is so much knowledge, data, and information that it can only benefit, sorting out what's right or wrong for me and believing in myself and that this is not just another diet or attempt at weight loss with the possibility of failure...but a complete and honest change of lifestyle...then I have already succeeded. I have gone from a 26w to an 18-20w, its taken me a bit more than a year, next year, i maybe 16 -18w, and the year after that maybe there won't be a w in the size... ;) ..its all good and so then is life.
If you want to drink, then drink. If you think you have a problem, then you have another decision to make too.
Just my 2 cents,
Jane

[Pete]

Jane,

Like you this thread caught my eye. I had a lifestyle that always provided the opportunity to have a few drinks - regularly. Entertaining clients or staff; going out on a Friday for a few. But I found that this was part of the reason I gradually gained weight over a prolonged period. For me, the drinking led to eating without being responsible, not excercising, and I think it slowed down the digestion of food. Fortunately, I always drank socially. I now drink much, much less than I used to and although I don't follow a low carb diet as religiously as some, carbs are something I'm relatively cautious about too and I do moderate my intake.

When anything becomes a very regular habit, its time to re-examine what you're doing. To Susann - if weight loss is your goal, why not try going without alcohol for while, and see if that helps you get to where you want to go. From my experience, just avoiding being in certain circumstances was half the battle. Eliminating alcohol for a while can be a good motivator if it helps you get to your goal weight and it will likely have some other good side-effects too.

As for sleeping, the thing that does it for me is picking up a book and trying to read in bed. Within a few minutes I'm off..........

[osuzana]

Hey Jane :wave:

I like your attitude! I guess you could say that is how I have felt about drinking wine for many years. For me it is a real treat to be able to sit down at night and enjoy those evening hours and sip away, relax and get a buzz, get sleepy :yawn: and go to bed.
But recently in the past few years, I have been gaining weight by leaps and bounds.... :mad: I just can't believe it! I am not a big eater, nor am I a big snacker. So it must be the fact that I am a wine drinker.... at least that is what all the information I have been taking in is pointing to.
The hard part is letting go of a habit I happen to enjoy a lot, just to lose weight. It seems like on the nights I try not to have my wine, I just don't know what to do with myself, or how to sit still and try to relax into the evening. I know I CAN do it, because I have done it before, I just don't like doing it ! :rolleyes:

[carbavoidr]

Susanne,
Is it just recently you have been gaining weight? and yet you have been drinking wine in the evenings all this time? would age or something else cause the wine to suddenly have this effect? I am afraid I am not knowledgable enough on those things. (I take a PM now and then when I need to sleep.) your idea of waiting till later in the evening to have the wine is a good idea, if you want to cut back on the amounts, maybe adding a bit of soda or something? would cut it back even more, but honestly, unless you are chugging a quart of the stuff, or think you might have a problem that needs attention, why beat yourself up over it? you will lose weight slower, period. which is more important at this point? can you switch to a PM ( to sleep) for a couple of weeks then when you get off induction (or what ever) you could add a bit of wine now and then? what if, while you were in weight loss mode, you ONLY drank those three drinks in the evening and did not drink anywhere else for say, one month? maybe you have begun to drink more than those three glasses and that has caused the weight gain? this is your LIFE, you can do what ever you want with it, there is no crime or shame in wanting to enjoy a bit of wine, unless it makes you unhappy. you have not failed, you will not fail, but your results WILL be different. What will happen if you purge wine from your life? will you spend the entire time you diet waiting for the time you can have wine again? will you never sleep? will you resent having to give up something you really enjoy and thus toss away a healthy lifestyle? will you substitute something that may be unhealthy? I have faith that you will figure out what will work for you, what results you are trying to achieve and at what rate, now that you have found a healthy way to live you will find a compatable way to work it into your life so that every day is a joy, not a hardship, I bet you find a way to meet this challenge. mine challenge is snacks. I LOVE snacks. I think I would eat clods of dirts, if it were in bite sizes on a plate. (by the way..how many carbs in a clod of dirt?)
fight the good fight,
Jane

[osuzana]

:wave: Hello again Jane,

Yes the weight gain and difficulty losing it has a lot to do with age. About 4 years ago my weight was around 145#s Every year after that I started to put on about 12#s a year. WHen this first started to happenn I would get right on the Atkins Plan and lose what I needed to lose. But in the last 2 years it is not working. I am going through peri menopause, and since that all started everything has changed! :eek:
The last time I went on the Atkins plan I could not lose the weight untill I quit drinking my nightly wine, then it came off, but yes, It was distracting, and I really had a hard time giving up something I enjoyed a lot. I could hardly wait to be able to have wine again. It was almost like torture. It was one of the hardest things I had ever done, except for having to go to the dentist once in a while, and just over a week ago, we had to put our beautiful 13 year old mixed Cocker "Fergie" to sleep. She was my baby and I'm still deep in sadness over that.
I know I will get it right sooner than later on this wine thing....Life is SO full of not so great stuff sometimes, makes you wonder why things that make you feel good, are always found out to be not so good for you. Like smoking....I used to smoke years ago, my kids were young and were learning about the dangers of smoking, I was younger, and figured I would quit when I was older, well their little begging faces, every day, asking me to quit.... because they feared I would die... just did it for me! :confused: I quit!!! But I really loved smoking....uuuggghhh. I hated to give it up!
Ice Cream is good.... but makes you fat!.... Pasta is sooooo good but it has lots of carbs :mad: ..... And Bread,.. I thought was my friend, because I love bread, it doesn't love me. See what I mean?
Oh well no use complaining, it's not gonna change. But Hey,... thanks for the note of encouragement, I do appreciate it! :)
That what is so neat about this site. People like you, who care enough to write and encourage people like meeee! Osuzana

[Janice]

I've been lurking on this thread since it's inception.

Drink is important to me. Usually my drink of choice is red wine (especially when LCing), often it's beer, and on special occaisions, Scotch.

I drink maybe twice a week. When I drink, 90% of the time it is to get high or a "buzz" (the other 10% of the time it's just a glass). It is not uncommon for me to drink a bottle of wine or a sixpack in an evening. Or more.

In this higher state, I play guitar, write in my journal, listen to music, clean something that hasn't been cleaned in ages, write letters to old friends, have intense and terrific debates and conversations with the individual I've gotten drunk with, make love with my husband, make incredible meals for 20 or more, walk my dogs, spin wool, design very funky patterns, plan terrific holidays. When drinking, I do not drive, fight, go to bed early, or watch television.

Drinking is part of my healthy lifestyle. It is not for everyone.

I'm not saying I have not had regrets the next morning; after nights when I've had too much red wine, tried to make a strawberry marguerita substituting strawberry yoghurt for frozen strawberries, called an old boyfriend from highschool in the middle of the night and woken up his pregnant wife etc. This is all part of the experience.

Drinking enhances my life. If I didn't feel this way, I wouldn't drink. Everyone is different.

My best to you all!

Janice

[osuzana]

Hmmmm Janice :cool:
Your reply is a very interesting read. Reminds me of myself when I was in my 20's and in a band in NYC . I had lots of fun and good times. ( in that band for 9 years) :thup: Now I'm older, and married with grown children. I also don't drink as much as I used to. And parties are rare! :D Gosh........ where did the time go? Osuzana

[Bonnie]

In actuality I avoided popping into this thread as I figured it was just another one of those preachy "the perils of alcohol and LCarbing threads :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .. thanks for the post on the "Alcohol Thread" osuzana to alert us to take a peak...great discussion going down here :thup:

For years one of my hobbies has been to make Homemade wine... mostly red... I find it incorporates occcasionally and nicely into a LC WOL...in fact most of my friends are great wine makers and it is fun to gather and try new vintages... I must honestly say that I do not drink a glass every evening at dinner but on occassion when I host a dinner party the wine glasses make an appearance... ;)

Bonnie

[Bonnie]

Just wanted to add:

This WOL can take you to many levels...I respect each and every one's decision in whatever path they chose that works for them... :thup:

Two great quotes that my friends and I share on a constant basis are:

"All work and no play makes Jack a very dull lad"

and my overall favorite from a dear friend that we share when we are out and about having a good time... our toast to each other is :

"Who has more fun than people!" ;)

Life is what you make of it!

Bonnie

[Cinderella]

I have just sat and read every single thread. Janice from Alberta(we are neighbors :wave: ..lol)...you are too funny!! :D :D

I use to drink everynight. I loved it. Since low carbing it...I just can't. Makes me get drunk way too fast. I'm a vodka drinker.

One thing I haven't done since low carbing is have red wine.

Does red wine not put us out of ketosis??? :confused: :q:

hugs...Cin

[Bonnie]

Cyn,

First and foremost remember the rule" YMMV" and the effects of red wine in moderation reacts differently with each individual... I am going quote what the Eades have to say about red wine in their latest edition of PPLifeplan:

This is in regards to Fibrinogen:

" this component of the body's blood- clotting system is not related to cholersterol or its carriers. Fibrinogen forms the strands of the framework onto which the clot forms. The higher the amount of fibrinogen in the blood, the greater the tendency to form clots and, therefore , the greater the risk for heart attack or stroke. When the body sustains an injury of any kind, fibrinogen rushes to the site to begin to patch the damage with a clot, snaring the solid components of blood ) the red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets) in a web of fibrous strands. For this reason, it's difficult to get an accurate measure of fibrinogen if you've been sick, injured (even a minor injury), had surgery, or even been under major psychological stress, because the levels skyrocket in these circumstances. Levels taken in the abscence of such tramas that rise above 335 can signal an increased clotting risk. Smoking also drastically increases fibrogen levels, and if anyone with a high reading, stopping smoking is of paramount life-saving importance. If you suffer from any of the many insulin- resistance disorders - diabetes, high triglycerides, low HDL, excess weight - you should ask your physician to check your fibrinogen level, since it tends to run higher in the presence of these disorders. The good news that eating a diet lower in carbohydrate, partaking of a little wine or alcohol, and exercising will help to lower your fibrinogen."


Bonnie

[Thinny]

As soon as I have a drink of red wine, my face goes bright red.(The white does it to a lesser extent, and I haven't tried enough of other alcoholic beverages to be sure.) Years ago, I saw some grape sugar in my HFS, and tried it, thinking it would be better than white sugar for sweet situations. Within very few minutes, I was slammed with a vicious headache - every time. So I've since decided that I am allergic to grape sugar. Then wine gave me a slight headache. Hmm, could it be the grapes, the sugar, or the alcohol that bothers me? I've never resolved this issue, but if you set a lovely large bunch of sweet grapes in front of me, I exhibit the same "control" as any alcoholiic. Hmmm again. I guess I shall conclude only that grape sugar in any of its manifestions is a carb too much.:D

[osuzana]

Hello Thinny :wave:

I'm sure you are allergic to something that grapes contain. If I eat the grape, especially the green or white grape, I get really bad heartburn. I have no problem drinking dry red wine though, but sweet Red wines do the same thing! And forget about white wine.... I get a headache every time I drink it. Same thing with Champagne. :daze:

I just don't know :confused: O'suz

[Thinny]

I prefer white wine to red now, but since our family has trouble with alcohol, it makes my teetotaller hubby paranoid if I even consider buying a bottle. So I won't. It's certainly not worth asserting my independence by flirting with a potential addiction, and besides, a good gingerale will do the job a lot cheaper. :D

[carbavoidr]

this has been a very interesting thread, I learned that real life is happening here. what has come to light for me is I am not alone, I was beginning to think I was the only person in the world who drank without guilt, while on low carb, I simply cannot tell you the huge positive that bit of knowledge has given me. Bonnie, have you considered trying to make a low carb wine? using less sugar to activate the yeast? maybe a lower carb fruit like strawberries? can that be done? I love the chemistry of low carb, I have managed to make quite a few unacceptables into occassional doables, its part of the continuing education of eating healthy. and keeping life interesting.
Janice, you so accurately described my drinking, I was shocked and delighted. Life is a gift to unwrap and enjoy, not to put on a shelf and dust.
Thinny, what did you mean by " not worth asserting your independence"? Is drink the only thing you would not assert your independence about? I found that to be intriguing, maybe we could start another thread and discuss that.

best, Jane

[Joanna]

Alcohol means a whole lot of different things to a whole lot of people, and what they feel about it changes as they grow older and change.

I don't want to sound like the 'leader of the women's temperence union' (as my mother used to say), ESPECIALLY as I have thoroughly enjoyed drinking all my life, but alcohol is a drug, pure and simple. It alters brain chemistry, just as cocaine, marajuana, or cigarettes do. The specific brain chemicals altered may be slightly different depending on what substance you use, but the results are similar.

And for some people it's addictive, and their brain chemistry is altered permanently. And many don't realize the addiction is taking place for years. They are proud of the fact that they can "hold their liquor" better than most, and rarely suffer bad aftereffects from a night of drinking. But these characteristics aren't necessarily a good thing. They indicate that your body processes alcohol differently than most people's.

It's legal, but something that has to be watched I think. And if you have alcoholics in your family it should be watched even more closely, in the same way that you watch more closely if you have relatives with breast or prostate cancer.

Not all alcoholics are lying in the gutter with a brown paper bag -- in fact the vast majority aren't. But alcohol is the third largest killer in the U.S. today.

Just some sobering thoughts.

Joanna

[Bonnie]

I don't want to sound like the 'leader of the women's temperence union' ..guess what Joanna...with your comments that's exactly what you do sound like :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ... as stated in my first post I avoided this thread simply because of remarks like this...most of us here are smart intelligent folks and know what different levels alcohol can take one if they let it get out of hand..the main point some of us are trying to make here is that not all folks do let it get out of hand and can exercise control...sooo before this thread again gets tooo preachy...and it is suggested that I make another trip to the "Confession Booth". :) ..have to say one stop shopping here just like a SuperWalmart ;) going to say adios to this thread :wave:

Bonnie

[Cinderella]

Bonnie....
Please stick around...don't not come back here. I, as well as others really enjoy your posts.

Please reconsider. :(

hugs...cin

[Joanna]

Sorry if I pushed one of your buttons.

I DID say in the beginning of that post that I've enjoyed drinking all my life.

All I was trying to point out is that it's not just an innocent and fun thing for some people.

Enough. I'll be quiet now.


Joanna

[Thinny]

Jane, I don't believe in firing my big cannons at mosquitos - I save them for arguments/situations that really are tremendously important to me/our family. Therefore, knowing my own prospensity to any kind of carb addiction (and that includes alcohol, BTW), along with my family history of losing control over alcohol consumption, etc., I don't find it necessary to fight with my hubby over my "right" to drink as an adult. Family peace is worth more to me. For one thing, I WILL accept a drink once in a while - like champagne at a wedding! :) I can trust my hubby to get us home safely, and he doesn't object to this amount. And I KNOW that I can have a drink anytime I really want it (I handle the finances and have a valid licence :)); so that gives me the right to refuse to drink w/o blaming my DH. It's MY decision.

But I have to admit, it gives me palpatations of the heart when I see any of my kids drinking - and all 6 exhibit some degree of carb intolerance. It is scary. Sandra

[janis]

I'm the one who ordered some 5hpt a week or two ago. It arrived on Tuesday and I took it as directed but noticed no effect so I haven't bothered with it since. However also on Tuesday, after drinking too much twice over the holiday weekend and gaining a couple of pounds, I had already decided it was Get a Grip Day (not the first one in my life :p ). That evening I made sure I only had 3 glasses of wine (seems to be the max for me for weight loss) and the last two evenings only 2!

A big advantage of drinking less is that I have more time to do something else. After one or two glasses I can still spend half an hour on the treadmill or lift weights--more than that and I just get sweaty and pissed off or, more often just read or sit in front of the TV. I'm not definitely not like the person (forget your name, sorry) who can drink a bottle of wine and get a whole lot accomplished at the same time!

And, I lost the weight I gained on the weekend, plus half a pound. So I'm feeling quite cocky.

However, it's Friday. Dangers await.

Janis

[Thinny]

Janis, danger only awaits the unwary and ignorant. Plan something else for tonight and the rest of the weekend that will keep your brain and attention focused on non-drinking scenarios. Don't get bored and find the bubbly going down the hatch w/o thinking. THINK! A rational thought as to why you decided to have your wine is much better than having your elbow and mouth acting out of habit, because some habits are the immediate ancestors of addiction. :) Sandra

[janis]

Thinny, I never said I planned to spend the weekend in a drunken stupor!

I went to 2 music rehearsals, contributed 3 kinds of appetizers to a large dinner party, did the NY Times weekend crossword, bought a bunch of annuals for hanging baskets . . . and much more. None of which involved drinking except the dinner party, where I was careful and moderate.

I was joking when I said "dangers await". I just meant that I might drink a little too much (which I didn't), not go on some kind of a bender.

Janis

[Tiffy]

Well I DID go on a bender yesterday. :(
My kids went to their dad's and hubby had to work. So about 4:00 I poured myself some wine. Well one glass lead to another and yet another and you know what I mean. Today I feel terrible and the thought of food makes me sick! I forced down some scrambled eggs but that is all. Which leads me to the question:
What food is good for a hangover??
I know I need to eat! Also, this WOE seems to be working although slowly. And I don't believe it's just the wine but the fact that I never want to eat! (hung over or not!) Meat is just really turning me off lately. I've never been a big meat eater anyway. And I never want to cook anymore as I just don't like food! :(
Someone please offer suggestions as I'm about ready to give up this WOE. I know that not eating enough is a big problem and also this LC'ing makes the wine go to my head way to fast! And no, I don't want to give up my wine. :mad:
Thanks for this great thread!
Tiffy

[Joanna]

Water water water....and time. Yor body will process the wine in its own time. I don't think you can hurry it up -- sad but true.

Have faith in the WOE. You don't have much to lose, and I think the whole process is much slower for those of us who want to lose only 10 or 15 pounds.

Have you tried tofu as an alternative to meat? Can't abide the stuff myself, but for some people it seems to be a workable substitute. The silken stuff works well in a morning shake (even I like it that way! :D).

And remember what I'm just beginning to learn -- You can't drink like you used to when you eat low carb! Take it slow!! :daze:

Take care of that head!!

Joanna

P.S. I can identify with the kids going to their father thing. Went through that for years and felt awful about them having to do it but greatly relieved to have a break from tham and then guilty about feeling relieved etc.etc. etc. Not a lot of fun. (No wonder you let lose!! :) )

[Karen]

Originally posted by janis
I'm the one who ordered some 5hpt a week or two ago. It arrived on Tuesday and I took it as directed but noticed no effect so I haven't bothered with it since.

Three days are not going to make a difference with a supplement like 5-HTP. It's not like taking an aspirin and your headache goes away. You have to give your body time to figure out how to use it.

Another supplement that's helpful in the treatment of cravings is L-Glutamine. Here is the scoop...

-a non-essential amino acid
-one of two primary energy providers that burn glycogen to provide fuel for the brain
-protein building block - supplies the brain with energy and nourishment for healthy brain function.
-enhances mental alertness, learning processes and is also required by the brain as a neurotransmitter
-necessary for burning glycogen, a principle fuel for the brain and also for stimulating a variety of neuro-functions
-onsidered beneficial for reducing sugar and alcohol cravings
-reduces pain and alleviates fatigue caused by poor metabolism
-naturally produced by the liver and kidneys
-additional supplementation may be beneficial in the treatment of alcoholism, reducing cravings and mental degeneration
-may be used to help treat colitis, dizziness, ulcers, motion sickness, hypertension, ear infection and sore throat.

Karen

[DuPont]

Does anyone else seem to get drunk faster on the lc wol?

[Joanna]

There was a great thread on the effects of alcohol on us LCers just a few days ago but I can't remember where it was.....

Anyone?

Joanna

[Tiffy]

Thanks for the pep talk!
I just took a shower and that has helped. And drinking my water too!
I have never tried tofu but it looks gross. :)
I gave it some thought and am going to make a beef soup. Ground beef w/broth, alittle spinach and maybe some mushrooms. Maybe I can stomach that.
I can eat meat alot better if ground or shredded. It's the chewing it I seem to not care for. I don't know why but it makes me start thinking of what it really is and when I think like that I get grossed out. :(
And yes, you know just what I feel like about my kids! I love the break but then I feel guilty for thinking that way. Then I end up not even trying to enjoy myself and end up just sitting around feeling guilty! :rolleyes:
I also feel guilty because my hubby has to work and I have all this free time to myself. He's working again today and the kids are still w/their dad. I'm trying to feel better so I can get some stuff done to show that I'm not complety usless!
To be perfectly honest, I know I have it made! Good kids, a nice break when they go to their dad's, and a hard working husband who WANTS me to stay home. Yet then I feel guilty for "having the good life." I also worry that it will all come crashing down for some reason...hubby maybe getting laid off or a big major expence occuring. I swear, I am sometimes my own worst "friend". LOL!
And then the wine...I know I need to watch how much I drink w/this WOE. But it seems to go down so easily and before I know it, I've had a whole bottle! My drinking wine at night has become a major habit...maybe worse. :eek:
It's an area of my life I need to take a serious look at. And alot of it comes from bordem and yes, an excape from all my "needless" worrying and stupid guilt!
Thanks again for your post!
Kristi

[Tiffy]

Yes!!
I believe I read somewhere that it's due to not having the all those carbs in your body to absorb it??
But I have noticed this in a big way!!

"Drank too much last night, got bills to pay, my head just feels in pain" _Dido song.
:)

[osuzana]

: :) Hello DuPont

You were wondering if anyone got drunk faster on low carb? Well I have read several replies from people who responded with a yes to that very same question. :agree: I too, definitely have become more sensitive to the wine i drink, I drink less, and that is good. Although I am drinking less, I am still a very slow loser. It is frustrating, but giving up the wine at night is frustrating too. As I am getting older, it seems like losing weight is so much more of a challange, and is much harder. This has been quite a challange, and has required so much patience on my part, but I am hanging in there. :rolleyes: .....................Osuzana

[DuPont]

Susann,

It's been 3 weeks for me, I only lost weight that first week, but there are other things going on as well, like TOM, and new medication. Went to a picnic for memorial day, and felt the effects of wine after 1 glass. I don't drink often any more, I'm one of those people who has moved from one addiction to another, ending up at food. But I was concerned that the drink may become a problem after the way I was feeling the other night. It is probably best for me to steer clear of alcohol altogether.

[osuzana]

:wave: Hello DuPont

I am struggling with just not having that glass of wine in the evening, It's not that I am a falling down drunk, I don't drink for that reason. I do drink wine in the evening because it really has helped me with relaxing, and inducing a sleepy feeling. If I don't drink I am edgy and seem to be wide awake untill 2 in the morning. Now, because I have been doing this for many years, It is almost impossible to go without it! It is almost a feeling that the wine puts closure on my day and I seem to feel like it's my reward for completing my long, sometimes happy or difficult day.
For instance, last night I was exhausted and I was actually falling asleep on the couch at 9:30 pm :yawn: I kept waking myself up, because I really did not want to go to bed that early, (No....... I don't know why) :(
So I finally got up and poured myself a glass of wine and sipped it, I really didn't need it, because for one rare time, I was already sleepy. Figure that out! I knew in my mind I was having it because I felt almost naked without it! It has become such a frequent habit. that somewhere in my head I tell myself that I can't get into bed without having it. Almost like brushing your teeth before bed. It has become something I just DO!
I have to unlearn this habit. I know one thing, ....I have cut down on the amount of wine that I drink because of this WOE. I can't tolerate as much.... who knows, maybe as I continue on with this WOE my urge will completely dissappear! And then I will bow down and Thank the Lord, because to me it will be a true miracle!
On the other hand, I really enjoy how wine makes me feel. I am
a little bit phobic in certain areas, and wine definitely helps with my phobias. I hate to think it would be forbidden for me to never enjoy it again. But.....I am one of those people who lean on it a little too much. I find that sad, because I do enjoy it. As I have gotten older and viewed life, I see so many enjoyable things to be not so good for us! Ah.... the mysteries of life. :rolleyes:

[phoebe-tom]

I have been trying really har to make a conscious effort to NOT think of alcohol as soon as i step in the door from work and for the last week it has worked. :D

Last week out of 7 days i had a drink on 3 days and 2 of them were nights out that i had been saving myself for. So only one night last week did i drink in the house!!! I was very pleased.

So far this week i have not had a drink for two nights, though there is a possiblility of some wine tonight because we have both been working really hard in the house decorating over the weekend and we both fancy a chill-out night so i think a bottle of wine to share is not a bad idea.

I too find that i can't drink very much AT ALL before i start to feel a bit tipsy (1 glass of cider or a large glass of wine especially if i've not eaten JUST before i have it or even with it!!!).

So far i'm just looking at what kind of week i have ahead and thinking that if i have wine tonight and then i'm out tomorrow, then i won't haveanymore till saturday. And if i can keep that in mind then i'm happy :roll:

So wish me luck .

Phoebe

[osuzana]

Hey Phoebe-Tom :cool:

I don't want to appear as dense....... But WHAT is Cider? Here in the States I have not heard that term except for Apple Cider, or Cider Vinegar...and How about that Ice Cream recipe for Low Carb? I would like to try to make it. :yum: :rheart: O' Suz

[phoebe-tom]

Well cider is alcoholic apple juice i suppose, you can have from very sweet (disgusting ) or very dry (delishhhhhhh).

It's lovely cold, but it's quite alcoholic and can make me tipsy very quickly these days!

And i'll find the recipe for the ice cream out and post it to you in your journal.

Bye Phoebe :wave:

[carbavoidr]

tiffy,
when the thought of cooking just bumms the crap out of me I get as creative as I can (with what I have around). you would be amazed a what you can come up with, just for fun. and since I try to eat only when I am hungry, not by the clock, I find I eat less too. I enjoy fixing old recipes into healthy LC dishes.
I try to keep munchies to snack on for those days that a lot of meat seems too heavy. the LC totillas are great for wrapping around egg or tuna salads, and make a nice light meal when combined with a green veggie or salad. you don't HAVE to have a lot of red meat or any meat for that matter, but pure protein will work too. make a bunch of marangues,(sorry I cannot spell) some sweet and some plain, keep them airtight, and use them to spread pnut butter on, or fill with pudding, egg white is all protein and will substitute nicely. the tofu suggestion is a great one too. make a few casseroles with ricotta,eggs and veggies. some store bought crepes are only 6 carbs and can be filled with anything. maybe you are just bored? its a lot of work to keep everything organized, easy and in reach and interesting. but it gets easier.
a sample menu:
early day:
1 LC tortilla wrapped around 2 slices of bacon and 1 egg made into egg salad. a cup of coffee with a french vanilla tea bag in it for flavor.
late afternoon:
fruity sugar free jello whipped cream pie in baked pecan crust
a home made sampler of cocktail weenies, and mini meat balls, and shrimp, with julienne celery and peppers dipped in ranch or mustard dips, diet soda.
some time after dark ,
a cuke, hollowed out and stuffed with dry tuna and cheese, sliced into rings topped with slivers of almonds and olives
1/2 of a head of cabbage that had been cored and stuffed with meats and shrooms and cheeses and butter, wrapped in bacon, then double wrapped in tinfoil and baked for a hour.
LC custard served warm with a vanilla sauce over homemade vanilla Icream.
I bet you could come up with some really great ideas too.
best
Jane
:wave:

[Cali]

Oh dear, where to begin?
I have been avoiding this forum for a while because I've felt so embarrassed at the way I'm unable to to stick to this WOE because whenever I drink RED WINE I lose all self control.
And lately I have been drinking at least 3 glasses a night and then eating toast or worse (or better).

I have done the "tomorrow I will start afresh" thing 5 weeks in a row (it's usually Sunday night I say it). I was so good at the beginning of discovering this diet/WOE and actually lost weight, now I am back in the old cycle of tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow.

I love the taste and the effect of red wine. I buy good ones,as thought this is superior! I loathe the thought of stopping, then I think well, just on Saturday night , but home from work, the desire starts.

I have a morbid fear of liver damage, of dieing before my children are grown but I become self indulgent, as if I am doing myself a favour, around 7pm without fail.

Well, it's good to see I am not alone! Maybe i should go to AA, it seems horribly shameful. i imagine a room full of ugly people being overly sympathetic and condescending toward me.
The trouble is, i like it, enjoy it and know that "in moderation" it is harmless.

Where to begin???

[osuzana]

:wave: Hello Calli....

I am the person who started this post. I am happily surprised at how it has grown. Sometimes it gets very busy and then it becomes quiet, I am so grateful for all the replys here, each one offers a good read :read: and some heartfelt :rheart: advice! I was thinking that I was the only shameful person out there who loved red wine. I too love the taste and the relaxed feeling it gives me, I hate to think of giving it up. I keep hoping that one of these days, someone will post a reply saying to us all, that we should stop worrying, and just enjoy your 2 or 3 glasses. I have to wonder just how much truth the so called experts are telling us on this subject. I find their moderation amount for women of one 4oz. glass a day almost laughable! :lol: Why bother? To that I say pfffft..... :p
It has been my experience in life that has taught me that the experts keep the truth from us on many issues so we don't get carried away and harm ourselves! Examples: When taking over the counter meds.... the bottle says 1 tablet the doctor says OK to have up to 3. The speed limit is 65, we push it a little more say 68 to 70, with usually no harm done... We are told eggs are bad...now we are told they are good.... We are told red meat is bad but we know different here on Lo Carb... We were told fats are bad....And guess what? We know they are beneficial! I was a hairdresser for many years, and The belief is if you get a perm you cant redo it...yes you can... if your hair is in good shape. See what I'm trying to say? Now tell me this.... Do you believe the healthy French people have one 4oz glass of wine a day? Especially when they consider wine to be there number one beverage? I would really like to know the consumption of wine the average person in France drinks on a daily basis, men and women. I asked this somewhere else on this thread, and 1 person replied a "liter" ( not sure i spelled that right)
Anyway if any one from France, or anyone who can enlighten us on our curiosity here, it would be sooooo appreciated! Honest, and I promise not to go overboard and drink more than 3 glasses, no matter what!.. (unless of course, you say it's OK)
I'm just kidding! :roll:

[Thinny]

Osuzana, think about it. The French average is one litre (32oz) of wine daily, divided between lunch and bedtime usually. It is not concentrated in the evenings, and mostly is accompanied by food.
That's the average, which means the actual rate for many drinkers is much higher. Until Italy grabbed the title a few years back, France had the highest alcoholism rate in Europe. Hmm, could there be a connection? Maybe the HEALTHY Frenchmen do only confine themselves to 4 oz per day. :cool:

[Cali]

Well I spent a good few years in Italy and married an Italian and I'd like to decribe their wine consumption:
Wine is cheap and available in every corner shop and supermarket.
From an early age children drink a sip of wine, usually diluted, with their meals.
Wine accompanies lunch and dinner, one or two bottles between 4 -5 people.
It is considered very bad form to drink excessively - bad image for the desired "bella figura" (making a good impression, nothing to do with your figure!).
Women traditionally drink much less than men (nothing new there).
Wine is regarded as normal accompaniment to meals - not something special to be brought out on special occasions or nights out.
So, whilst the consumption of wine might be high overall, it is spread out and never used as a point in itself, merely as another aspect of living .
Alcoholism in Italy is usually found among the spirits drinkers of which there is huge variety, also, pure alcohol can be bought easily to make your own liquers from fruit and nuts.
I worked for a doctor in a central hospital there for a while and the alcoholic patients were overwhelmingly old men.

[JimR-OCDS]

One thing to keep in mind about the French paradox and that is, even though they have a lower rate of cardiovascular disease, they have the same or greater rate of other diseases such as liver cancer and lung cancer(they like to smoke too).

I think what keeps the French healthy is their attitude about food and living in general. While everyone else eat's to live, the French live to eat! ;) When I was there 4 years ago, the people who lived out in the small villages and country side, were very relaxed friendly people. Unlike those in Paris, who tend to be like most people living in big cities.

For me, I'm not so concerned about being an Alcoholic because I drink 3 to 4 glasses of wine on a Friday night, but rather, when I drink wine, my defense against forbidden food dies. Also, I do notice a decline in my energy level for a couple days after I drink wine.

[Cimorene]

This is a great thread, and clearly one that touches a lot of us, because I have already promised myself I'll come back and read every one of the posts...... But I want to say a few words, here, because I need to break my own silence on the subject. I, too, have this "thing" about my wine in the evening. I've been having my two-three glasses of wine every evening for years and years, and I can say that my patterns have changed, because in my twenties, I often forgot about it for days and even weeks, in my thirties sometimes for days, and by the time I hit my forties (I'm now 50!), I seldom missed my evening wine hour. Like the posts I've read, I don't get drunk, and for me, when it's over, it's over, i.e., I don't care to go past a certain point. My theory is that it's connected with the carb addiction (duh!), and in my case the wine is more about my chocolate addiction than about the chemical effects (not that chocolate doesn't have a chemical effect!)....in other words, I would place wine more in the food category, but that doesn't make much difference because food IS my particular addiction, mostly food in the form of carbs, and as I understand it the wine acts as a carb in the body. So, for me, giving it up is pretty much in the same category as giving up sweets or bread.....but there's that added "this time is for me, and I like holding a lovely crystal glass in my hand and relaxing" thing....... which would seem to indicate that if I need "me" time, clearly there are other things I could do, right? But it does seem that we create our habits and our likings, and it is hard to make the switch. In my case, though, I suspect that the wine does indeed slow down my weight loss; or, more likely, it has the effect of derailing me from my intentions to take good care of myself, because in my heart of hearts I am not sure drinking wine IS taking good care of myself.

Anyway, I just want to say thanks to those who wrote so honestly about this issue......

Cimorene

P.S. Still confused: how does one write personally to someone they would like to dialogue with?

[osuzana]

Hello Cimorene :wave:

Your reply to this post is one of honesty, thats for sure! You sounded so much like me. I too am 50 and have had this habit for many years. I never sit and get ossified drunk either. I have always consumed the same amount of wine.... not usually more than 2 or 3 glasses, unless we are out to dinner at at a party eating foods for a while, which is a rare thing. I too have my limit.
As I have mentioned before, I never drink during the day, as I could not function. :daze: I save it for the hours before bed when I just want to unwind and get sleepy :yawn: . For me, it helps....or maybe I am just fooling myself. I do hope you take time to read all of the replys to this post, everyone has made an effort to be caring and honest with their thoughts on this subject. As I have stated before, I am so glad I started this post. When I first thought about it, I was afraid people would think I was just a weak willed lady tryoing to make excuses for loving wine and being fat!
:rheart: O'Susana

[Cimorene]

I have now waded through another bunch of posts in this thread--and intend to get them all, because it's important stuff--and although I see a few preachy ones, and a few people getting their buttons pushed, I hope that stays at a minimum, because what I mostly see is some really honest and painful processing, including my own, and I think that's great, because that's what this foum is for. Now: I have something to share, and I want to tell you that I seldom share this information about myself, because it can really backfire, but here it is: I am a mental health clinician and chemical dependency therapist. Now, before you run screaming or tell me I have major problems both ethically and professionally, let me remind you that I am "off duty" here, and that I am very much a human being, as can obviously be seen if you read my first post in this thread. The reason I am sharing this information (and I do so with trepidation, given past experience) is because it is a topic I have looked at very deeply, and continue to look at. I work with people who have pretty much destroyed their lives with substance abuse: they have done jail time, had their kids taken away, destroyed their marriages, gone backrupt and/or destroyed themselves physically. After years of research and listening, I honestly do believe that whether or not alcohol is a problem is a very, very subjective thing, and I'm not seeing a lot of that really end-of-the-road stuff here. But someone once said to me that "you're an alcoholic if alcohol is causing problems in your life." This is an extreme statement, but what it leads me to conclude is that it's up to me whether alcohol is a problem for me. Not for everyone, because if a person gets drunk and kills a child, then alcohol is very much a problem. But there is a continuum, and for those of us who have a sort of "social habit," possibly complicated by a carb addiction, the question is one of priorities, i.e., which is worth more to me, to lose weight faster, or to have that hour or so in the evening when I chill out with my glass of wine? In my opinion, that's the difference. For eons, human beings have used alcoholic substances of one kind or another for celebration and comfort. Perhaps the attitude is what matters: one Japanese philosopher suggested that we should only drink to celebrate; that is we drink to comfort ourselves, we are poisoning ourselves. I can resonate to this, and choose to continue in my ongoing self-examination, coupled with self-respect and, hopefully, honesty.

[missatc]

Thank-you, Cimorene for your honest and personal post. I enjoyed your first post this morning/afternoon and the latest one just now. I imagine you struggle with your work vs. your personal choices from time to time. Though my work is not social, raising my two children is, very much so! I struggle with my personal decisions vs. what I want my children to learn about alcohol. We are very open with them about most everything including responsible drinking, and in my OPINION, responsible means legal. I am rambling a bit-sorry. Anyway, I truly appreciate your (IMHO) healthy outlook on the decision we all make of to drink or not to drink. It wasn't all that long ago that I came to the same conclusion that my drinking habit wasn't any different than my overeating/junk food habit. Now, I just have to decide where my priorities are. As I have mentioned in previous posts, LCing has actually helped lessen my desire for alcohol. But summer time is here and social drinking is a popular past time :rolleyes:

Once again, thanks for such honesty! I hope this forum is as safe a place for you as it has been for all of us.

[Cimorene]

Thanks for your wise and supportive post. Although the work I do is so much a part of me--and can't help but spill over into this kind of dialogue--I have learned that when people hear what I do, they tend to either (a) back way up, afraid that I'm psychonalysing everything they say (I go off duty too!), or resent me because they had a bad therapist once and still haven't gotten over it, or (c) see me as some kind of authority with a superior knowledge (ha!)......... The best one is when it's (d). That's when I just get to be a regular person who is at least as screwed up as anyone else, and accordingly treated like that regular person. Even better is when I get to talk as well as listen.... You don't suppose that's why I'm hanging around here, do you?

P.S. My seond day of low-carbing wasn't as pristine as my first, but it was pretty darn good. I just need to be willing to cook........

[Joanna]

I think I'm the one who wrote the 'preachy' note here! :rolleyes: I do apologize -- it was not meant to be. I had just finished readinga very interesting book on alcoholism and addiction, and was bursting with new information that I felt I just HAD to share!! (Should learn to keep my mouth shut! )

Anyhow, I think you two have really hit the nail on the head here. Most people do not have a life-destroying problem with alcohol -- perhaps some of us feel we drink too much on occasion and are questioning it, but that's a good thing, isn't it? Like any other indulgence, it can get out of hand -- I could eat a whole bag of Wavy Lays at one sitting if I let myself, but normally I don't (for obvious reasons! :D )

I personally have always enjoyed drinking, and it's only been lately (and even moreso since LCing) that I've been examining it. I would NEVER try to tell someone what to do in that regard.

In the end, I do believe that if it feels like a problem then it might be, but then again it might just be part of a larger problem -- like what you're doing with your life right now, or as you have said, whether or not it's interfering with your weight loss efforts.
If it gives you pleasure and it's not causing trouble, why not?

Peace,

Joanna

[osuzana]

Hello again to all who care about this thread, :wave:

Just by being involved here, and realizing I am only one in a number of people who seem to be worried about a problem I might or might not have .....I think I have come to discover that my problem is not as bad as I thought. We as humans tend to rely too much on what our peers think of us, and tell us. We look to each other for knowledge and answers, and that is good, untill we let others decide for us what is correct. We all possess the natural instinct of right or wrong, good or bad. I have realized here, that I am OK with my drinking, I don't abuse it and have come to see that the reason for saving it for the evening, is just my way of finishing my day. If I get a little buzz from it at night, I know I don't have to go anywhere but to my bed. I have never driven a car or have been in any way abusive when I drink....I just do it because I totally enjoy it, and it does relax me. I, at one time complained to my doctor that I was concerned about my drinking because of all the warnings about women drinking in moderation, and that they should avoid drinking more than one 4oz glass a day, He laughed at me and said, if it relaxes you and it keeps you from taking (chemical) tranquilizers to sleep better, there is no harm in it. As long as you have a limit, and you know you are not abusing it. I actually have always questioned his statement here, because the world has become so over analyzing about everything, it almost makes us all obsessive about everything we do.
Losing weight for me was never a big challange, when I needed to do it I did it. I am going through pre menopause now and have gained weight, the thing is it is not coming off no matter what I do! I am blaming the wine...it makes sense because I have come to understand that alcohol turns to sugar and is burned first, so it gets most of the attention from my body as far as losing fat goes. I know this, I just have to decide now how I go about giving up something I love doing in order to lose weight. I am losing, but rather slowly. I also have discovered, as have many others, that I cannot drink as much, because then I do get drunk...I don't like being drunk, I like being relaxed and sleepy when it's time for bed.
I think if you are knowing that you have a problem....HONESTLY KNOWING...then you might just have a problem, if you are like me and asking other people, because of guilty thoughts, then maybe you do not! Who says we should not take time to enjoy the things in life that make us feel good? Life is just too short! If drinking wine makes you feel bad.... then maybe there IS a problem. So far i have not felt bad about it, not even hung over... only guilty....because I am told that I should not be doing it. :nono:
I am sorry that this is so long, but after reading all these replys, I had a light bulb moment and it actually lifted me! I know what I have to do in order to lose weight at a faster pace. I can choose to stop, and get along without the wine and drive myself crazy because I want it, or I can continue on and lose slowly and accept that! The thing is now I know I'm OK and to me that's what matters most. Thank you every one, for helping me with my discovery :rheart: O'suzana

[missatc]

WoW Osuzana! Has this thread been great or what!!!??? I am so pleased for you and your self-discovery. Feeling guilty and beating up on ourselves are very unproductive ways to live our lives. :thdown: :bash: :thdown:

Joanna, I for one was not offended by your posts of information concerning alcohol. I believe knowledge is a good thing. We all know there are people in this world who have a zero tolerance for alcohol. There are people in this world who have had alcohol destroy their lives and the lives of others. There is a full spectrum of people and the kind of choices they make regarding alcohol. None of those people are wrong unless their choices are hurting their lives or the lives of others.

For me, I don't believe in getting drunk (I hate the feeling and it is against my belief system), I do enjoying drinking, I can afford it and I don't allow it to interfere in my life. I am cognizant of how it may look to my children as they are approaching their teens, and peer pressure for drinking is very tough to deal with. Teens and alcohol is a very scary combination!

Thanks to all those who post here for some great discussions!

[phoebe-tom]

I just thought i'd thank everyone for al their input in this fantastic thread!!!!! I really have enjoyed reading and sharing and although i haven't posted lately i come back regularly and see all these "similar" people worrying about what the rest of the world think s about our drinking habits.

It sometimes feels like madness, that it is perfectly normal for a man to have a couple of pints of beer or a couple of cns whilst watching the match - but we ( and we are almost all women i think) feel guilty for 2 or 3 glasses or yummy fruity red wine as an evening treat.

I have been monitoring my intake for a while as my mom made a few comments when i bought some cases (12 bottles) of wine from a wine club. I admit we (me and tom) did drink the first one in about 1 month so three bottles a week ( with friends too) . My mom said i was an alcoholic! I felt terrible and didn't want to have the wine delivered to her house so she couldn't say anything.!!! Mad!!! But i have come to realise over these last few weeks that if i can go without ( and at times i can! though at present it's hard!) then i can choose to go without.

It's frustrating that i can cut out such foods as i do for LCing but one simple thing (wine) i just can't !

I've become more aware of what i'm drinking but i'm not being to strict with myself at the moment......... and i'm not THAT bothered! I am being brutally honest there. When i opened wine previously i could finish a bottle in an hour, and not feel too bad until it HIT ME! Then i'd be really ill and feel terrible to go to bed.........often feeling sick. So i have got to the point where i CAN have 2 glasses while i watch TV and then stop and have a nice coffee and i feel fine and not dissappointed with myself for being "out of Control" or whatever.

I know i'm rambling too ( it's the wine!!!!!!!!no i haven't had any today!) but it is a very emotive subject and i could go one for hours. I've said my piece so i'd better let you all get on.

Speak to you all again soon ( i'm sure)
Phoebe

[JimR-OCDS]

If they made a non-alcoholic merlot wine, I'd have no problem giving up the alcohol version. I'm mostly hooked on the flavor of wine.

[carbavoidr]

This has been a great thread and only validates what was stated before. Drink to enhance your life, not to dilute it.
Jane

[Cimorene]

I just wanted to mention that I work pretty closely with the Alcoholics Anonymous program, because of my work, and I believe it is an incredible spiritual program that is a gift to humanity. I feel that AA has done a huge service to the world in educating people about alcohol abuse. I believe in the 12-Step way of life, and I feel immeasurably enriched by it. HOWEVER, AA has become a kind of religion, as such movements often do. And the essence of "religions" often gets lost in the interpretations of the followers. The information and philosophy of AA tends to get over-interpreted and pushed too far by some overzealous followers, and people who are prone to guilt in the first place are easy marks for this kind of "guilt-trip." Despite the good that AA does, I have seen people hurt by AA members who take its philosophy and turn it into what they need it to be according to their own need for power and control and security. But that isn't AA. That's people. I am grateful for that program, and I always caution people to "take what they need and leave the rest," and the "rest" permeates our society.

[janis]

I really hope this thread isn't winding down but I have to admit I've been following without participating lately.

Since this thread has been going I have really relaxed my attitude about my drinking, which for some reason has made me feel more in control than when I was beating myself up daily and resolving to reform. The only "rule" I'm following is not to pour a glass of wine before my husband comes home for dinner, and since I'm busy making the dinner it's not a hard one to follow.

And I'm showing an extremely slow & steady weight loss, which is better than the jumping up and down it was doing for the last several months. I'm in the last 10# so it's tough.

Anyway, this thread has really helped me and I'm grateful to you all.

Janis

[phoebe-tom]

I hope everyone carries on posting because i have found this a great place to just open up and be honest about some stuff which has previously worried me "silly"! :daze:

So i hope everyone still reads and posts because i think it can only help everyone to appreciate what everyone else is thinking and feeling and it can only be good. :cheer:

Take care

Phoebe

[osuzana]

Hey Janis :wave:

I really hope it's not slowing down either....it has been So interesting! I too have relaxed on the wine. It's like I was really trying to take something away from myself and I was being a " "brat" about letting go :eek: Can you believe it? That's human nature for ya! I think the so called experts have scared us silly about what we should be doing and not be doing in just about every phase of our lives. It's become kind of scary. Here I am telling other people on this post not to be too hard on themselves because they really seem OK and in the mean time I'm beating myself up. I have absorbed a lot of helpful information here that has led me to believe that I don't need to be so frightened of my habit, because I'm not a drunk! :daze: Ahhh! that felt good!!! :D I'm just a chick who likes to close her day with a couple of glasses of Shiraz or a good Merlot. Last night I actually had 2 glasses and sat on the couch and tried to analize if it made me feel bad..........Nope!! Just made me feel comfy, cozy, relaxed and ready for bed :yawn: Nothin wrong with that.
I have to tell you a story about a friend of mine (she is French Canadian) and she always had a glass of wine while making dinner. She and I were always going on diets because WE thought we were fat. We were a little over our normal weight but not fat! ( I realize this now) Any way, I told her I didn't mind dieting but I didn't want to give up wine, She said why should I? And she suggested that I have the glass at dinner instead of in the evening. I decided to do just that. We had company for dinner the next night, and since they were at the house, I indulged in a nice glass of wine as I prepared the meal. About an hour and a half later we all sat down to eat and I went to get the chicken out of the oven...... Guess what :D .....hee hee... I forgot to turn the oven on. Everything else was cooked and ready except the bird! I was sooooo embarrassed... Soooo I never drank wine at that hour again. One glass of wine at that hour is enough to make me want to sit down, because I haven't eaten yet and it goes straight to my head. :daze: That's why I save it for night time. I again will say, I am so glad everyone has enjoyed this thread !:rheart: O'Suzana

[JimR-OCDS]

Suzann, I think your friend meant to have the wine with dinner, not while cooking it! ;)

[osuzana]

Hello JimR-OCDS

Nope!... :nono: She always had hers while she was cooking her dinner, she referred to it as her "Happy Hour" ( I think she was trying to be happy about having to cook dinner) or as my Grandmother would call it "Cocktail Hour" :daze: before dinner!
O'Suz

[carbavoidr]

S.
What insight your thread has given us all....do we drink for pleasure .... or remorse? do we indulge or exceed? what an eye opener. It just goes to show that all worlds are different and yet the same. Luck to you. and thanks...
Jane

[Cimorene]

Sounds like people are not letting go of this one yet, and I didn't mean to say that this should happen.......it's just that when someone has a breakthrough, I tend to think that's happening...but it sounds like there is a lot more to emerge from this thread. I really do think that there is quite a bit of difference between true, biochemical alcoholism that causes a person literally to enter an alternate state of consicousness and do uncustomary things--as compared to the taste for a good wine that is roughly equivalent for the craving for chocolate. There are those who would say I am "in denial," people like me meet them all the time, but we all have to work this thing out for ourselves. If you're not the menace of the highways or beating your wife/husband over alcohol or drugs or stealing to support your need for alcohol and/or living on the street, it really does come down to a life habit that may or may not serve you well, and heaven knows those are complicated to deal with sometimes......but THAT"S ALL. There's a world of difference between whether I lose five pounds this week as opposed to seven......and whether I am in jail for 30 days because I nearly killed someone. Hopefully we are all striving for behavior that doesn't hold us back or slow us down, but there are times when I have to say I wouldn't want to live in a world without really, really good chocolate or a incredible glass of Fume Blanc. C'est fini.

[Thinny]

One difference might be that those who have a real problem with alcohol wouldn't be here, talking about it. My dear old Mum, who exhibited exemplary control all her life in matters alcoholic, has lost her objectivity in response to many of life's trials, and succumbed to a familial failing. Fortunately she has done this after all her kids were raised in a responsible manner; consequently, we can all see the before and after picture. Only one of us to date is abusing alcohol, and she's just doing it to "unwind." She needs to, but not by following in Mum's footsteps 20 years sooner. It is just compounding her problems.

[Tiffy]

I haven't been here for awhile but I've read with much interest all the new post.
I just wanted to say alittle something about Cimorene's post on AA. Just something that happend to me years ago and how AA affected my life at the time.
I hate to admit it, but years ago I got a DUI. I was out with a friend, drank way too much and was stupid and got behind the wheel. A cop pulled me over and off to jail I went. It was a horrible, horrible experience and one I never want to repeat!
But the point is the court ordered me to AA and that's when my problems begin. Because of the DUI I was right away called an alcoholic and told to face the fact. If I denied it, I was in "denial".
So I started feeling very bad about myself, feeling sorry for myself and so on. And I sat and listened closely to all these people's stories, about their "bottom" and so on. I started thinking to myself "well, I never did that!" and "I never drink during the day" and so on and so on.
At this time I was going through the stress of the DUI, not being able to drive, a layoff from my job and a messy situation w/an old boyfriend. I was broke and depressed. So I started "acting out" what these people in AA told me to do! I started "day" drinking. I started drinking the hard stuff, something I never did before, and learned how it's easy to get a coke from McDonalds and pour my hard stuff into it. That way I could drive around and no one would know. What a great concept...thanks for teaching me that one AA!! :eek:
Anyway, I went through this for awhile and really pissed off my friends and family. I was being a total loser. Finally w/the help of my "now" hubby, I stopped the craziness, got my fines paid, got my licence back and finally was freed from those damn AA meetings!!
This is just my story and how AA affected me. I'm sure for the true alcoholic, AA can work and be very helpful. But for someone like me, it just made me feel that I was an awful person and so I acted out on it. Getting away from there was the best thing I could do and getting away stopped my alcoholic behavior.
Now I do drink my wine in the evenings and I would hate to give it up! But no, I do not drive and I don't get crazy. Although w/this LC'ing it does go to my head alot quicker!
Thanks for listening! Just my "two cents". :)

[osuzana]

:wave: Hi Tiffy,

That was an incredible eye opener! Things are not always what they seem. In life we all learn the is a positive and a negative to everything. Unfortunately things seem to be set up one way in certain systems. If you don't fit in, sometimes it doesn't matter to anyone, it seems. At least not untill it is too late. I am gald you have recovered from this awful trial in your life. I am sure it has not left you unmarked! :there: O'suz

[Joanna]

I went to AA because I was very confused, and hoped I might get some answers there. But I too found myself in a double bind. I really didn't believe I was in the "same league" as most of the ladies there --I don't drink during the day, never did, except for the occasional beer at lunch time with friends -- I have never hidden liquor round the house, never been in trouble with the law or missed work because of a hangover etc. etc. But if I said to the nice ladies that I wasn't sure I was an alcoholic, they smiled knowingly and said that denial was a classic sign, and that I wouldn't be at the meetings if I wasn't. :confused:

So I actually found myself saying the old line: Hi my name is etc. and as soon as I said it I felt "No I'm not!" :mad: . But everybody was so happy for me I couldn't say anything then, but I just couldn't bring myself to go the meeting the following week. AA makes a big thing about being honest with yourself, but I felt I was being dishonest with everyone there. And then of course this thing happened with my son, and my so-called "drinking problem" is now the last thing on my mind.

One of the AA ladies called me up and asked if I'd be coming to the meetings, and I told her that now it really wasn't possible for me, and besides I really felt fine about myself, and she went into a song and dance about how she didn't want to lose me (as if I were a fish on a line or something). It made me feel odd I must say.

Anyhow they were a great bunch of ladies, but I think now that all this breast-beating abut alcohol on my part was a result of a bored, middle-aged woman who needed to get off her rear end and start DOING stuff again. And it took a family crisis, someone with a REAL problem, for me to realize that.

I'm sure it's a good program, but if you're NOT an alcoholic, it can be somewhat devastating.

This really is a great thread. It's helped me enormously, and I thank everyone!

Take care all,

Joanna :D

[Cimorene]

I'm new here, and I don't really know what the standards are, but I can say that I feel distressed by some of the judgmental remarks being made about AA and other people in some of these posts.

I think it is important to distinguish AA from its "followers." There will always be people who need to project their problems onto others. There will always be people who are in denial and eager to judge those who choose to identify themselves differently. It is easy to point the finger at others, both pro and con, although ultimately no one can tell you if you are an alcoholic.

AA in and of itself has NEVER "made" anyone take to destructive drinking, or judged someone incorrectly or caused anyone else's problems. We all do that for ourselves. Individuals can and do judge and coerce others, but it is up to us if we allow that to happen to ourselves.

I'm sure people get labeled incorrectly all the time, both by the system and by other people, but ultimately it is up to us what we do with the experiences we have.

[Tiffy]

First off, thanks osuzana, Joanna and Cimorene for your post.
Joanna, I'm not aware of your problems w/your son? Did you post it here? Whatever is going on I hope everything is ok!!!
Cimorene, I know that I am responsible for my actions and I didn't mean to say the "people" in AA "made" me do it. :)
But the system calling me an "alcoholic" and then sitting in AA listening to all these stories and such and in the "state" I was already in...well, I acted out. They said I was an alcoholic and I did my best to become one!! I did a good job of it too. Lucky for me, I got "pulled" out of my self destruction w/the help of my husband (who at the time was just my very dear friend).
I guess all AA meetings are different, depending on where you are. Here, well, there are ALOT of drinkers in AA who go to take "advantage". During my time in the meetings, I ran into a fellow member and he invited me to go to lunch. Hey, I was stupid, feeling down, down, down and thought this guy was on the up and up. Lunch ended up at his house where he supplied beer instead of food. I indulged w/him but insisted he then take me back to where we met and at that time called my hubby to come and get me. Yes, of course this guy tried to do more then drink beer w/me. What is this called in AA...I think 13 stepping??
Anyway, a creep who goes to AA and still drinks and picks up women.
Anyway, that is really off topic to this thread but I wanted to share it.
AA has a great concept. Yet only you yourself can decide if it's right for you, not the system. That just causes resentment. And the people in AA are just "people" and not all people can be trusted.

[Cimorene]

--But the system calling me an "alcoholic" and then sitting in AA listening to all these stories and such and in the "state" I was already in...well, I acted out. They said I was an alcoholic and I did my best to become one!! I did a good job of it too.--

We all choose our own experiences and beliefs......they are not chosen for us.

I don't want to beat this thing to death, but "these rooms," as members call the places where AA meetings take place, are full of sick people. That is why they are there. But that is NOT Alcoholics Anonymous, it is sick people. If anyone wants to know what AA is about, then the best thing to do is to read it's literature, starting with the "Big Book," ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS. That is what it is about. Anything else is added by people who are putting their own spin on it, and who usually have serious problems. That is why there are suggestions to "take what you need and leave the rest," and to read the book and "stick with the winners." AA is a microcosm of real life, and you can find just about anything you want there. Maybe I'm being overresponsible here, but I would hate for someone who really does need help to read these posts and decide that AA is a dangerous program.

[Joanna]

Sorry if I've given the wrong impression. I think AA is an excellent organization, and it was obvious to me that the people I met who were "doing the program" had benefitted tremendously from it.

I just don't think it was for me, because I'm not an alcoholic. But I could see all kinds of good things about following the program. It's a way of life that allows you to concentrate on what's really important, to get in touch with your spirituality (however you define it), and to live life in the present. As I said to one of the women there, not entirely joking: "I'd like to be able to come to the meetings but continue to drink if I felt like it". :D

You are right -- humans are imperfect, and some members of AA can probably get carried away with evangelical zeal sometimes, but that's not AA. I have the "Big Book" by the way -- it's a fascinating read.

All the best,

Joanna

[osuzana]

Joanna :wave:

I know a few people who have been helped by going to AA and they swear by this program, and continue to attend the meetings even after years of first going. I think it all boils down to what we get out of situations we are sometime handed, whether they are fairly given to us or not! It looks to me like you were forced into a situation that was quite unfair,.....and perhaps you got a little rebellious because if it..... The important thing here, is that you came out of it and landed on your feet! :D And I think you probably took away some lessons that other people have not had the advantage of learning. I'm not saying to be grateful about the misfortune of being wrongfully accused of being classified as an alcoholic. You can tuck this adventure in your shirt pocket and know that you had a different kind of experience in your life. You have an advantage over some of us ... you learned something we did not. I believe all experiences in our lives whether they are good or bad, bring about knowledge to the person who goes throught the adventure....and.... Knowledge is power! :thup: Osuzana

[Cimorene]

We have this system that tries to prevent drunk driving. I happen to work in that system, and I have a lot of problems with it, because where issues with substance abuse are concerned, "one size does [NOT] fit all." AA doesn't work for everyone, but it is the acceped model for recovery in this culture at present. And, yes--not everyone is in need of "recovery." Sometimes people just do stupid things, and they learn from them. I will say that it has been my experience that just about everyone who comes into my office with a DWI insists that they have NEVER done anything like that and never will again. Unfortunately, it usually turns out that this is not the case, because the "System" makes it advantageous to lie: if a person is honest and says, 'I've been drinking heavily for years and getting behind the wheel," they will probably have to go to counseling (shudder) and those damned meetings forever. There is this joke in AA circles: "How do you know when an addict is lying?" Answer: "His/her mouth is moving." These jokes and slogans may seem unkind, but they signify something, and for every person who just got into an unfortunate situation because they were having a rough night, there are ten more who are indeed lying and trying to put off the inevitable.

The bottom line, for me, is working with these people and realizing that it might have been my child they killed when they were having this rought night that caused them to do something they would normally never do--for which they are being so badly treated.

[Joanna]

My youngest son is in the hospital right now. He had a psychotic episode two weeks ago - the culmination of what was becoming increasingly bizarre behaviour (he was living in Vancouver with his older brother at the time).

He may be schizophrenic -- we don't know at this point, but one thing is for sure -- he has been abusing pot and alcohol for a few years now, and that's going to have to stop.

So I'm grateful for my introduction into AA, because no matter what I do with my issues, I feel that with what I've learned I will be better able to help him.

I'm not particularly religious, but I really think I've been guided to this point, and I'm grateful!

Joanna

:)

[osuzana]

Joanna,
You must be overwhelmed! I have three grown children, 2 girls and a boy. 23~ 21~ 19~ages. These kinds of things are so hard for parents to deal with, We as parents have such heart felt compassion and hurt for our chhildren in situstions like this, and at the same are angry with them for messing around with things that can hurt them, as your son has been hurt. My sister has gone through this several times with her son who has no self esteem. It really breaks her heart, and causes such havoc in her family. I will be praying for you and your family and for your son.
I am sure your sons doctors have him in counseling or therapy, I will pray that this will help. I am sure when others see this upsetting event in your life, they will also pray for you.
You are most likely in need of a big hug :bhug:
Good luck Joanna, keep your socks up and let us know how things go! :rheart: Osuzana

[Joanna]

Thanks so much! It is a difficult time, but the the tremendous kindness of people like you and the lovely early summer weather we're having make it much more bearable!

I truly believe that things like this are given to us so we can learn from them (even though sometimes we'd rather not!).

Thanks again for your kind thoughts.

Joanna

[osuzana]

:wave: Hello again Joanna,
It has been a few days since I read your last post, and I am wondering how you are doing, and how your son is.?
I am glad to hear the weather is inspiring for you.... I think the warm sunny weather definitely has an effect on our mental state. I hope the sun keeps shining for you both!

Phoebe Tom.... are you out there? I miss your notes. I think I'll check into your journal, I wanted to tell you that I found a way to consume less wine. I have been waiting untill 10pm to have my first galss, I sip it slowly and then when I pour the second, I sip that slowly too. I never finish it because by that time I am falling asleep
:yawn: soooooo I just pick myself up, and head for the bed. It works for me, and maybe it would for you too. Pretty soon I will just wait a little longer, and maybe I'll fall asleep without having any! Then my weight loss should accelerate, and I'll be happy. :D :rheart: Osuzana

[Cali]

This thread has been so fascinating. I am very glad I am not alone in enjoying a good red - and aren't there a lot of those about!- every other night and easily up to a bottle, which doesn't seem so much really, only 4 glasses.

And yet and yet!! I know instinctively that if I feel, no, when I feel, headachy and brain foggy in the morning that I have indeed become inTOXICated and dread a slow death of liver cancer...

LIke Janice some pages back, when I drink I relax, smile, love my children, coook fabulously, write letters to my friends or ring them and have wonderful conversations, dance with my husband around the living room, enjoy the feel of sheets and a good book, but tragically, red wine or any alcohol makes me hungry, craving carby treats like cheese on toast, nachos, jam sandwiches,
chocolate, pasta with cream and beans and cheese. AAGGGHH!!!

Why oh why is self discipline so hard???

[osuzana]

Cali :wave:
Thanks for posting. I was beginning to think "This Thread was Dead" I'm glad to see people are still reading and writing.
I find when I am drinking my second glass of wine, I usually want something to munch on..... Soooo I keep almonds in the house or crack some walnuts. Also Pork rinds do the trick with some melted cheese on them. It keeps me away from the carbs and it does make me happy, without the carb damage. I remember reading somewhere that it is a good idea to have protein if you are consuming alcohol. Anybody else heard about this? :D
:rheart: Osuzana

[Joanna]

I think that's why wine and cheese are such a good match! :)

Joanna

[MarieB]

You're going to get through it, Osuzana. You are totally on the brink of a big life change and that is so amazing.
Someone posted that they have 2 glasses of red wine, and that there are health benefits. I suggest that you do a little more research on that subject, becasue I saw on the news the other day that while red wine does have an enzyme that is good for you, it isn't necissarily enough to counteract the negative effects it has on your body. Women, supposedly, are espcially at risk for liver damage and other problems, becasue we apparently have less water in our bodies or something. Don't quote me on this, but it is something you should look into. I heard on the news that, while men can have a glass or two and be fine, women who drink the same amount could be considered heavy drinkers, simply because our body chemistry is different.
I think that having a glass of wine once in awhile is more than ok, but you know yourself well enough to make those decisions for yourself. Good luck to you and keep on the LCing, it will help you I think:)

[jaykay]

What a good thread. I've just read all through it, started by looking for it, because I've stalled and I wondered if the wine was the reason. I drink three or four times a week and only one glass of red wine (any more and I'm legless, now I'm LCing). Could this amount stall me?
The other bit that bothers me is that I really want a drink sometimes in the evening, especially when its been a hard day, like I can't think about how else I'm going to relax. Nothing else seems to be as good as a cold beer or a glass of wine. And that worries me, i feel like I'm too dependent on it.
Can you get low-carb, no alcohol beer. I used to drink Kaliber, when I really wanted the cold beer but needed to drive later or something, but don't know what its carb content is, nor how to find out.
Booze also makes me very hungry, at the time and next morning, so its not the greatest thing for my blood sugar either I don't think.
Then again, red wine is supposed to be good for you, the Eades (PP) say it helps insulin sensitivity, which I certainly could do with - but not at the expense of weight loss.
Too confused for words! :confused:

[osuzana]

So Jaykay, tell me,..... will you give up the red wine? I am curious because I enjoy it very much and I feel a littly bitchy about having to give it up, because I feel sorry for myself because I gave up so much other stuff that I love! I love pasta and corn on the cob and garlic mashed potatoes. I love these foods, but they make me feel so dragged out, but I still love them, but I won't eat them ;)
And now I am understanding that wine can be the reason I am not losing...aaarrrgghhh :mad: Wouldn't you think that by giving up all those other carbs would have amounted to something???? Gosh ~ Give me a break! :daze: ( just venting )
Osuzana

[Cali]

Too right osuzanna!!!
I have fed 2 children, one husband, 1 rabbit, 3 guinea pigs, 2 cats , oh and myself and that was before 7 0'clock. in the morning. Then I went to work, leaving husband in charge of 3 and 7 year old (school holidays) "Where is their food? Where are the nappies? Where are their socks?" asked husband at 7.05)
Then home, repeat all of above plus prepare for next day and for work.
Oh for 3 glasses of wine in rapid succession!
Oh the sight in the mirror of my tummy, verging on saggy, not firm! Not something I'd show to a 27 year old boy, were I to have an affair (no chance in this state!)
Oh where is my self discipline?
How do you develop it? Can I take a course???

[osuzana]

Cali~
Sounds like me 10 years ago....and a few years after.
I felt deserving then, and I still do now ~ Life is tough a lot of the time, the stress level never really goes away when you have children, husband and pets. It just takes it's toll in different forms as the children grow. That's why I still feel deserving of that nightly relaxer in a glass. :rolleyes: I have come to rely on it as the best way to end my day. Too bad it interfers with weight loss.
Osuzana

[jaykay]

I resolve that I will give up the wine, it makes me feel bad next day and it prevents me losing weight (I think). Then I come in from work stressed (I'm a teacher, so that's common), I get cross about all the things I've given up, I feel I deserve it and down goes another glass.
Then I feel bad that I've got no resolve, to add to the fact that I feel bad that I'm not losing weight and not looking good and........... Hmmmmm. :rolleyes:

[Cimorene]

Well, I hate to say this.......or at least I think I do. Here's the thing: recently, I joined Weight Watchers online, fully intending to use it just to help me to be more conscious about my food. I believe in low-carb eating, and I am still doing it. But I had reached the conclusion that, despite all the claims that you can eat as much as you want on a low-carb diet, and despite the fact that I felt a lot better limiting carbs, after an initial 20 or so pounds, I did not lose weight for months. So, after going through all the wine processing here (see my former posts) and otherwise looking at my eating, it seemed to me that I needed to look at my portions, despite a lifetime of enforced dieting and a resulting allergy to doing so. After a week of "counting points," I had lost five pounds, and I have to say, it was pretty easy--AND I'm still having my evening two glasses of wine (I just make sure I count the stupid points)! So my ego is satisfied, and I have to say the rest of me is also; I just needed to look at portions, including my portion of wine, and the interesting thing for me is that I haven't really had to cut down that much, and so far the wine doesn't seem to be a problem. Exercising helps, too.....

I guess I have to say that it's easy to me to say "I only have two glasses of wine" without noticing the size of the glass, or "I don't eat that much" (but I do)......when the reality is that I am indeed consuming just a little more than my body wants, in order to satisfy my need for comfort. Rats! Still, I feel pretty good, and not even deprived, so far.........

[osuzana]

:wave: OK....Ok ....Cimorene,
What size wine glass? And how many points per glass? I too, have done the WW plan, and lost weight, even while drinking wine. I just didn't have a lot of time to do the points. (figuring out everything) I also love salad but hate low fat salad dressing.Theres a ton of points in the real dressing. How about giving us a sample of what you consumed for one or two days. Osuz :rheart:

[Cali]

JayKay, I'm a teacher too, so I relate!
2 colleagues are doing WWs and look fabulous and seem to stay that way, mind you, they exercise and so would I .....if I could just find the time.
The thing about WW is that I don't think I could bear the
weigh-ins and the sort of AA atmosphere ( "Hello I'm Cali, and I'm fat") thing.
I can't stand being weighed, I want to go on how I look and which size clothes fit me! The dreaded scales are so like success or failure stuff and the judgement that goes with that is enough to send me back to choccy biscuits, mashed potatoes and toasted sandwiches (as comfort).
I have inl-aws from Italy coming to visit in 3 weeks, they haven't seen me in 6 years (I stay out of photographs these days) and I'm not looking forward to how they will judge my weight gain. I was a size 10 back then.
Oh dear.

[Cimorene]

I forgot to mention the most important thing about WW: it's available online now!!! No stupid, infantile meetings, no weigh-ins, you just pay about $15 a month to use their resources, which include totting up your "points" for food and exercise and essentially paying attention to what you're doing. I agree, I couldn't stand the other stuff either, and they still have that, God knows, but it isn't my thing. I honestly can't say whether this will be an ultimate solution for me; I've made myself many promises, and life is an ongoing journey, but it is working well at the moment, possibly because I'd already figured a lot of this stuff out beforehand.

A 4-ounce glass of wine is 2 points. Being quite overweight, I am "allotted" up to 35 points a day, and so far I am allowing myself two glasses of wine, which for me is enough to chill out and feel I'm having my little "moment." As far as food, I just ignore what I'm not too thrilled about, i.e., I don't eat much fruit, because it makes me crazy; I do eat lots of green veggies, because they have no "points," and I eat things like chicken breasts, eggs, I do have half a bagel every day, because I LOVE them, and I continue to have coffee with half-and-half. WW is anti-fat, but I've always been on the fence about that anyway, at least so far as animal fat goes. I suspect I would do well including more olive oil, so will have to think about that. Instead of butter, I now use cream cheese on my bagel, and I use a tablespoon (they are not so much into weighing and measuring these days; WW teaches "eye and hand measurement") But I guess the thing that works best for me is that it's up to me what I eat, and no one is policing me, but I get the benefit of the structure. Last night, I even had a carefully-planned chocolate binge, all within my daily points. Clearly, these are points spent better otherwise, but I'm always going to be an addict, and I really wouldn't want to live in a world without an occasional piece of chocolate....... so, it seems the potential is there for just doing this in a sane but occasionally self-indulgent way. Will it work over the long run? I don't know. It's working now.

Once upon a time, about 20 years ago, I lost 140 pounds in a year, in a similar way, although with far more structure and OA meetings. That is what worked for me at that point in my life. During that time, I occasionally got a huge craving for protein and would indulge in a good-sized steak. It never seemed to slow my weight loss, and I imagine that is because it had no carbohydrates. I figure I will have those kinds of indulgences in the future, but at the moment, it is helping a lot to just be aware and to see that I don't have to go over the deep end 24 hours a day just because I overindulge in one thing at one time.

I'll stop babbling now. I do think this is an incredibly individual thing, and what works for one person doesn't work for another; I do think that it is possible, with a great deal of self-respect (which doesn't come easily for all of us, obviously), to find out what does work and feels comfortable.

[poobean]

Hi everyone:

It's been months since I've been on this site. Last fall I started on the Atkins program and religiously checked in... I fell off the diet at Christmas time, never went back, and started WW in April. I'm down 7.5 pounds, but it's a down two, up one and a half, down .2, up .8 battle - you know how it goes.

I've often wondered how much alcohol affects weight gain. I used to be a moderate drinker - a couple of glasses of wine a week. Since starting my own business and dealing with relationship challenges (with my husband's mother and ex), my alcohol consumption has increased enormously. A bottle of homemade white wine followed by a brandy nightcap is pretty well a daily (nightly) tradition now. Weekends are worse.
I function well on a daily basis, (although I have been known to feel sluggish on a Monday), I play baseball, lead an otherwise normal life aside from my tippling.

I've been struggling with my concern about my drinking, and my desire to drink. I didn't realize that there were others like me.

Today I was doing some research on TSP, 'cause I'm finding that I don't feel as well on WW as I did on Atkins, and I stumbled across this forum. As I said before, I'm amazed. It's not that I'm glad others are struggling with addiction (it makes me cringe to say the word!), but it's comforting to know that I'm not alone, and maybe this knowledge will give me some of the strength I need to make some changes...

Bottoms up! ;)

[Cimorene]

Dear All,

Lots of painful feelings here! As I have read through this--and contributed my own input--I've seen people asking over and over again, "Am I an alcoholic?" and "Is my drinking hurting my efforts to lose weight?" I don't know which question strikes deeper. We live in a world that makes body size a huge political issue for women. It affects everything from whether we get a job to how much it pays to whether anyone loves us. It shouldn't, but those are the facts, all too often. As for addiction, what does that mean? For me, addiction is a life made small. It is a wall separating me from everything and everyone. It allows me, basically, to not show up for life. It keeps me from feeling and thinking. Ultimately, it kills me, and I missed it all.

How do you know if you're an addict? Every culture except one (traditionally, the Eskimos, although that's changed) traditionally celebrates and comforts itself with some kind of fermented or distilled beverage. Where do we cross the line between the fairly benign use of a substance into that life-destroying addiction? The medical establishment has decided that for women, two glasses of wine a day may be too much. That's the latest, as far as I know. It used to be two, and then it was more. At one time, fetal alcohol syndrome was barely recognized, and now women are beaten over the head with it. Here in Alaska, I've seen children taken from women at birth because the mothers were known alcoholics. Yet in some cultures the daily consumption of wine has been a staple for centuries. Who knows the truth? The only answer I can think of--and God knows, it's a poor one--is a question I have asked when doing an evaluation (I am a mental health professional): "Is your life working? Are you getting what you want? If it is, then so be it. If not, then is the alcohol causing that to happen? If it is, then we need to do something about it. Only you can decide."

I'm afraid it sounds like I'm writing an editorial or something here......but I tend to talk to myself sometimes........

For me, addiction is a fairly global thing: as near as I can tell, the wine and the chocolate are pretty much in the same category, but both cause problems for me, and both slow my weight loss, if allowed. One is illegal, although it's debatable which one should be!

[osuzana]

Which one is illegal? I wasn't aware that either chocolate or alcohol are illegal..... unless I missed something here. :confused: Osuz

[MarieB]

Hi everyone. I'd like to applaud everyone here who is re-thinking their alchohol consumption. I know it must be difficult, life is stressful and sometimes you need something to help you relax. I used to smoke pot every day, now I'm down to just occasionally on a social basis (which still ends up being at least once every week or two, sometimes more depending on how social I am that week). So, we all have our vices. And I don't want to hear about pot being illegal, yadda yadda...BC is supposedly the #1 tourist destination for pot smokers now, even more than Amsterdam. So, anyhoo.... jee is it almost 4:20?

As for stress relief, maybe try some meditation. It's hard to force yourself to set time aside just for you, to take care of your stress levels, etc. But I do think it is important. Do you think we should have a meditation club or something? A thread to support eachother in ways to relax and relive stress that are better for us than drugs and alchohol, or sleeping pills and anti-depressants? I'd like to hear back from everyone. HUGS!!!!

[Cimorene]

Suzann, am I getting on your nerves? From being told to list what I've eaten for two days to being challenged about my post, this place is feeling a little unsafe. What exactly does it mean to be moderator for a thread? If it means offering challenges and judgments, I think I'm in the wrong room. I'm sorry I didn't express myself clearly enough; I suppose I was thinking about the illegal aspects of alcohol consumption, such as "driving under the influence" and such. Otherwise, I have no opinion, I'm just trying to think about this stuff, but maybe this isn't the right place to do it, for me at least.

[osuzana]

Cimorene.....
You are not getting on my nerves at all, I am sorry you took my reply to mean I was ordering you to report what you ate for two days, or as that I was challanging you. Simply NOT the case. I would never do that, nor would I want someone to perceive that i would. I guess I should have inserted some smilies :D here and there because I was trying to be lighthearted when I asked you to tell us what you were eating, Unfortunately communicating on the internet does not afford any of us the opportunity to also view the expressions and body language one has, when they try to communicate. I in no way meant to offend you! Also in your last post you ended it with saying both were illegal.....I think you meant alcohol & chocolate... In all honesty I really thought Oh, what now....( I was whining to myself here) is there something else I missed :confused: (I miss a lot!) It seems that every day we are being told that something is good for us and then we are told that it is not. I meant no offense here either.
If you think this thread is not safe for you, I am sorry. It has been good for many of us who post here. I hope you will reconsider. I personally have enjoyed reading all the replys that you post, especially because of your take on things as a mental health professional. You have knowledge that some of us don't have. I found your replys to be valuable.
I have to say I have been a member on this site since April, and one thing I enjoy the most is the kindness of the people here . I am not about to be unkind to anyone, so please know that I was not trying to provoke or challange you in any way.
:rheart: Osuzana

[osuzana]

MarieB :wave:
I say Marie, that you would be just the person to start a thread on Relaxion and Meditation! :thup: Why not get it started? It is a great suggestion. Go for it girl! :D We need all the threads ( help) we can get! I will be watching for it. :rheart: Osuz

[MarieB]

But I have no idea what I;m talking about:) I was hoping someone who DID know some things could start a thread...but ok, I'll start one and then people can add to it:)

[gary]

I am not advocating anyone with an alcohol problem to drink. There is, however, research backing healthy reasons to drink 1-2 glasses of dry red wine a day. One of the latest studies showed that wine lowers blood pressure in Woman. Another recent study just revealed the mechanism explaining how French people deal with heavy cream sauces and fat - the red wine contains phenols that open up the arteries and counteract ill effects. Evidence of the good effects of dry red wine and dark beer has been mounting in recent years. :D But any more than 1-2 glasses may increase the risk of cancer. :exclm: If you are able to control alcohol consumption and not abuse it then go ahead enjoy it. If you stay with 20 grams other carbs, you can still lose a lot of weight. I drank red wine, but maybe at a rate of 5-6 glasses a week, and lost 37 lbs in 4 months. :roll:

[osuzana]

Gary :wave:

Once again after I thought this "thread was dead" You came along and briught it back up. Thanks! :D

Since I have been lo carbing officially here, I have continued to enjoy the wine. I have cut back to 1 1/2 to 2 glasses on most evenings. If we are entertaining or go out I am sure I do not carefully monitor what I consume..... But I never go over the 3 glass amount because I would get sick. Besides we don't go out or entertain much because of our jobs in the summer. Much too busy. I have managed to lose weight ~ not a lot ~ but I am at a time in my life as a woman when my metabolism is definitely less than half of what it used to be..... sooooo I have just accepted that right now and I realize that that is the way it is going to be. At least I am losing some weight, and finally seeing some results as my clothes are getting looser.
I know wine has health benefits, I did not know about the latest research incliding phenols. My husband will be happy to hear about the dark beer stuff.
What is the size of the wine glass, I wonder that the French people most commonly drink from. I have always read that 4 1/2 oz. is standard. If so, then I'm in trouble ~ mine is a 7 oz. glass. :rolleyes:
Oh well ~ I'm gonna hang in there, thanks for the note of enlightenment on this subject. It is one of importance to me because I do enjoy the wine. Osuzana

[steffie123]

I am so glad I found this thread!! I relate to so many of you. I used to be a nightly drinker of mostly wine. (never liked the hard stuff) I could easily consume a bottle a night. It really started to hit me that I have a little problem. (now this is only me personally) I love to drink my wine, but I needed to cut it down. about 6 months ago, I have made myself cut it down to only Friday and Saturday nights. The rest of the week, it is water or pop only. At first it was really tough! I felt like I was really missing something!! After awhile, it really does not bother me at all. Now I can't tell you for sure, but I do think it has helped out with the weightloss a bit.

I may be addicted, but I feel like I have it under control now keeping it to weekends only. I don't know if this advise will help anyone else out there, but it really helped me.

Thank you for all of your wonderful posts. It is so nice to know I am not alone.

[jaguarchic]

I have read this entire post as well.

I was a drinker too!!! LOVE IT! Beer is my favorite! But wine will do too! ;) I quit completely when I started the AD. I found this forum searching the web for others ideas on drinking during this wol. Drinking is one reason it took me so long to commit to this plan....didnt want to give it up at all. But I got REALLY tired of being uncomfortable in my own skin.

I started induction on the 25th of April. I have stayed in that phaze this entire time. Now I have started thinking.....Maybe a drink on Friday wouldnt kill me......but I have had to much guilt of "straying" to allow myself to do it!! I havent missed drinking, but a few times when I felt like choking my boss all day, it was REALLY hard to pass the liquor store on the way home.

After reading this post, I am still not sure if I will drink or not, but I do feel less guilt about considering it, and if I DO..... I wont beat myself up about it!

Thanks for sharing all of the stories!

Also, not to change the subject, but I think I am not losing as much as I could because I dont exercise enough....or well, actually not much at all.....
Does anyone have a routine that they would like to share? I need some ab firming flab tightening good stuff.....
THanks,

[Joanna]

Hi Jaguarchic!

My gosh, how long did it take you to read the whole thread?? It's enormous!

Regarding exercise -- I'm not really 'into' it either, but the one routine I have found I can stick with (apart from walking my dog) is Body for Life. I'm not perfect -- don't do enough of the aerobic componant, but I've found that generally speaking I can fit it into my life on a regular basis, and that's what counts.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

Joanna

[Cimorene]

I dropped out for a few months (too much denial, no doubt!), and a few days ago started hanging around here again. I just checked into this forum, and was astonished to see the discussion I had participated in months ago was still going strong, and I just think it is such a vital one for women in general, but must say I think it is particularly so for women of a certain age, and as far as I can tell, many of the women who are speaking here are like me, what used to be called "middle-aged," but since we don't get middle-aged until 60 or so these days, I'd tend to call it something like "pre-crone"--and I, personally, greatly look forward to the crone stage, because it is synonymous with out coming into ourselves as individuals....but that's another discussion. I too debate with myself about the wine thing, and have little to offer of benefit at the moment, except that I recently had the experience of hitting rock bottom about my own health, when I realized that I was (a) barely able to walk and (b) had been staying upright mostly through the use of pain pills, while continuing to fog brain and body with nasty food habits. This rude awakening led me to a three-day juice fast, which I've done before, and which I find helps me get on the road to healing fast, as well as cutting the cravings fast.....and since then I've been working on identifying the plan I want to follow to get back my health, and as I've been carefully abstaining from the things I know for a fact make me sick, I've been amazed at the way I have stopped craving certain things.....like wine, for instance. I'm early into my process and know I can look forward to plenty of struggle, but the point I want to make here is that I spend a lot of time beating myself up about my emotional stuff and blaming my addictions on that, when the reality is that there is a whole other level, which is that my system is out of balance and the cravings are more related to that than anything else. It does seem that I need to separate my own tendency to view all my impulses from the psychological standpoint and look more at other factors.......and when I read these posts, I wonder if we as women in general don't tend to have that tendency. Is that need for wine in the evening really about loneliness or suppressed emotions......? Is it possible that there is more to it than that? I'm an old 12-Stepper too, and I know the "party line"......but I've noticed that most of us addicts tend to ignore the "allergy" theory behind addictions and focus on the spiritual / emotional aspects. And sometimes......maybe a cigar really IS just a cigar? Oh, well, it all works together, and I can certainly say that I had to get sick and tired of being sick and tired in order to look at my sickness on another level....... And anyway, I'll shut up now!

[MissLee]

Hi, I'm a new member, just started induction June 9. I was happy to find this thread, because I'm struggling with the same things. I consider myself addicted to white wine. I could not stop, was up to a bottle or more a night, even after trying to stop for years, I just could not do it. I would get that empty, hungry feeling in my stomach, the same feeling I get when I crave nicotine or sugar. Funny, it is just the wine, I have no desire for liquor. There are open bottles of hard liquor in the house, they never even call my name.

Anyway, I have stopped drinking, have not had any wine for a week, which is a really big deal for me, and very difficult, and I just wanted to share my thoughts, see if anyone else feels the same. First, I am treating my wine addiction as a sugar addiction, and when you think about it, it may be very similar, because wine provides instant fuel, just like sugar and carbs. Anyone else feel that way?

Dr. Atkins in his book tells us how to deal with cravings, and I feel his advice may apply to cravings for alcohol as well as sugar. He says, stop the caffeine, it brings on cravings. I did that, although I had a bad caffeine withdrawal for two days, I don't really miss it now. Second, he says when you have cravings, eat something fatty. I do that, and never skip a meal, because I don't want those empty, hungry craving feelings at all! Third, he says when you have cravings, take chromium, L-Glutamine and Vitamin B complex. I do that when I feel the craving for a glass of wine, it really seems to help. You will note, in his book, he specifically says that L-Glutamine has been shown to stop cravings for alcohol. I wonder if anyone else finds it helps.

I honestly think that I could not have stopped drinking wine for even a day without being on Atkins. I feel great. Lost all that puffiness in the face we get when we drink too much wine. Lost 5 lbs since Monday. Feel much sharper mentally without the buzz and fuzz. I feel happier, which I guess is understandable, since alcohol is a depressant.

BUT, it is HARD. I struggle every day. I find myself arguing with myself, trying to rationalize why it would be ok for me to have a glass of wine, despite the fact that I know it would not stop at one glass, and will impede my weight loss.

I would like to find some others like me who have stopped drinking on Atkins, and maybe share our strategies and tips and some moral support. I have a journal going, if anyone would like to chat with me there, or here. If there is already some thread going that I've missed, please let me know?


Kindest regards,

Lee

[osuzana]

Hello Lee, :wave:
I'm the person who started this thread last year... It has been asleep for awhile and I am surprised to see it is up again.
I found your reply to be very interesting. I have tried to give up the wine many times, it is a struggle, I have not tried the Chromium, L Glutumine and B Complex.... but because you seem to think it helps, I will try.
When the war started I gave up drinking for about 10 days.... my biggest problem was not being able to get sleepy ( that is what I love about the wine) I would sit up until 3am and go to bed wide awake, and then I would sleep fitfully all night. I hated that! Also, I didn't drop much weight at all, it took about 7 days and then I lost a pound. I was very dissapointed. I am sure I should have tried to go longer, but I was miserable not being able to sleep. So I gave in, and had wine and slep soundly most of the night. I always have my wine about 9 or 10 pm, after the day is done....usually 2 or 3 galsses, which amounts to a bottle.
The habit is old, I have been at it for 20 years. I have sorta lost the ability to naturally get sleepy. I am also in menopause, and that doesn't help matters either. :confused:
I own a hair salon, and finding my discussions with other women on their weight issues seems to revolve around this very subject...None of them really want to quit! They love the wine!
I also, as you, do not care about other types of alcohol. They are in my house and I don't touch them.
I hope we see some more people respond here, because there are many new members on this board since I first posted this thread... I'm beginning to think wine addiction in women and possibly men, is almost epidemic. :eek: O suzana

[Cimorene]

I think the supplements can be really important, and I'm also finding the use of a form of acupressure helpful with the cravings......but I think it's a very complicated tendency, and wrapped up with so many meanings that it certainly IS very hard to give up something that has become so much a part of one's identity. Some of my AA friends would say there isn't any difference between being an alcoholic and a "functional drinker" like some of the descriptions I've read here seem to indicate, and maybe that's true. Yet I have a feeling there are levels of meaning and physiological response tied into the wine addiction that seem to make drinking or not drinking more of a choice. I used to see it as a very hard-and-fast thing, but I don't any more, and I happen to be an addictions counselor! Maybe the bottom line is that only the individual can decide whether the substance is causing sufficient problem as to make it important to give it up..... I don't know. But I have a growing feeling that the craving for wine--in some people, at least--is a systemic thing, and when the system becomes more balanced, it seems that it has to become less of a problem. In the last week, I have seen my cravings grow less and less, not just in terms of alcohol, but food in general. This evening, we had dinner at a Chinese restaurant for the first time since I started my "cleansing," and the food made me sick, even when I chose what to eat very carefully; I literally couldn't eat it, it seemed dead and unappealing. I ended up eating some of the fresh fruit (which wasn't really in my best interests either, but seemed an improvement) and it seemed sickly sweet. I went home and had a handful of almonds, and they tasted better than dinner had. Wine tastes funny to me now, but I have to admit I still have an attraction to that "time" each day, and the pretty wine glass in my hand, and the memory--it doesn't really work that way any more, hasn't for a long time--of the "buzz" it brought. Maybe that makes me an addict, I don't know......but if so, it's getting better, and I seldom finish my one glass now. By the way, I hear Milk Thistle is really good for rebuilding the liver and acts as a preventative if you do drink......... This is a difficult process; I think we're really talking about a kind of death here, a symbolic death that comes when we leave behind the trappings that filled the emptiness. All that's left is one's REAL SELF......yikes!!!

[MissLee]

Susan, we have a similarity there, I also use wine to relax. I understand and sympathize about being wound up at the end of the day. Especially when life gets stressful, which it does running my own business (I note that you do as well) I would feel the jitters coming on, get that empty feeling in my belly and head straight for the Chardonnay. I think cutting out the caffeine has helped in that regard. For some reason I don't feel nearly as nervous or jittery on Atkins. Might also be the B vitamins, they are good for stress, very calming. Just a thought, when I can't sleep I take a Benadryl antihistamine tablet, knocks me out cold, but some people might not have the same reaction. Maybe that might work for you? Then, I also try to turn off the day by reading. I think part of mine might also be a little loneliness, since I am divorced and living alone.

Now that you mention how many women you know who are addicted to wine, and thinking about the friends of mine that I know are, I really wonder.. I bet half the people with this problem don't even talk about it, so we might not even know the half of it!

Cimorene, it is great to get the perspective of an addictions counselor. That is really interesting thought that the cravings might come from being out of balance.. I recall reading that vitamin deficiencies can cause alcohol cravings. Okay, I admit drinking is a problem for me since it has made me fat, lol. Really, they talk about beer bellies, you should see my "wine pouch." I'm really glad your cravings are lessening, hang in there sister. If acupressure helps you, I might give that a try myself.

Well, ladies, with all my talk about stopping completely, and my firm resolve not to touch wine at least until induction was over.. I had a glass of Chardonnay when we took my Dad out to dinner tonight. :o I hope it doesn't knock me out of ketosis. The good thing, I guess, is that I had just one, that was 3 hours ago, and have not had further cravings. The bad thing is it makes me question whether I have even one tiny shred of willpower! I just talked myself into it, "okay, I'll just have one little glass as an experiment and see if it affects ketosis tomorrow.." Right! A mind is a terrible thing, lol. Well, back on the wagon tomorrow...

Have a great evening,

Lee

[Jessi0622]

I've been browsing your thread and found myself in sooo many of these posts.
I was a very, very heavy drinker for the last 6 years. I had many nights where I blacked out at 12:00 AM, but partied till dawn and don't remember a thing. I nearly killed myself last August when I took out a telephone pole at 1:00 AM, so drunk that I was still passed out in my front seat when the cops got there. The impact didn't even wake my from my alcohol-induced slumber. But, I wasn't an alcoholic, at least not in my mind. I didn't miss work, I HAD a job, I didn't have a morning cocktail with my cheerios, so I wasn't an "alcoholic". I don't know what FINALLY caused me to wake up and smell the coffee, but I did.
Finally, on April 29, 2003, I got sober, I haven't had a drop since. I joined AA and started going to church, and those two things have been my salvation. I also started taking anti-depressants, and this diet all about the same time. Eliminating alcohol from my daily routine has done wonders for EVERY aspect of my life, weight loss included.
So, rather than just considering how your alcohol consumption will effect your weight loss/diet success, think about all of the other things it effects as well.

[MissLee]

Dear Jess,

Wow, that accident must have been terrifying, I'm glad you are still with us! Congratulations on quitting drinking, and also on your weight loss, looks like you are doing great!

I'm very aware of the effects of alcohol other than on weight, that's one of the reasons I wanted to stop. Even though I don't drink and drive, don't suffer blackouts and actually don't get drunk or party (no time to party running two businesses, lol), I agree there are other awful effects. Lord knows what it has done to my liver. And, alcohol is a depressant, and I feel much happier and alive without it.

I won't argue with you about what constitutes alcoholism, because labels don't mean much to me. I will say that there are open bottles of hard liquor in the house that don't tempt me, wouldn't touch the stuff, I just miss my evening wine. Okay, so maybe I'm a wine-oholic, lol. Happy to say, after my one glass of wine Sunday, I haven't had more since. But, it ain't easy!

By the way, about five years ago, I was on anti-depressants after going through a traumatic event. I feel the doctors kept me on them far longer than I needed, and that it affected my mental and physical health. I also gained 30 lbs. I stopped them myself (gradually) and felt so much better. The weight came right off after stopping, and I no longer felt I was living in a fog. Honestly, I think some Doctors prescribe anti-depressants as if they were candy, but they are not, they are very serious drugs. Please make sure you continue to go in for monitoring.

Kindest regards,

Lee

[dyffcult]

Hi. I’m new to this forum and new to low carb. I started Atkins on Wednesday and quit drinking on Monday. Two years ago, I was diagnosed with chemical depression and currently take 300 mg. of Effexor XR daily. During the past two years, I would drink 2-4 nights a week, consuming anywhere from 6-12 beers. I knew I had a problem, but always seemed to be able to stop without any problem for a week or so.

Since starting Atkins, I seem to be re-experiencing the one bad side-effect I ever suffered from the Effexor. Basically, for the last two days, I have been feeling as if electrical currents have been shooting throughout my body. It started yesterday morning and has gotten progressively worse. (Additionally, I’ve also started to crave sweets which I haven’t done for the past two years.)

I know that alcohol consumption effectively nullifies the effect of the Effexor, so I was wondering if perhaps I’m effectively suffering an overdose since knocking out the alcohol? Has anyone experienced anything similar?? Any suggestions? Or is this just something that occasionally occurs during the start of a low-carb diet?

Any comments or suggestions would be definitely appreciated.

[MissLee]

Hiya Dyff. I would definitely call my doctor if I were experiencing any side effects. Are you going in for regular monitoring? Just my personal opinion, I think some Doctors prescribe these serious antidepressant drugs like candy then don't even monitor their patients.

At any rate, I sure feel 100% better mentally and physically since I stopped taking them, and Effexor was one of the main ones I took. I gained 50 lbs taking them, lost 20 the first year I stopped without even dieting. My mind was in a fog, and that cleared as well.

That was several years ago, but I will note that recently I feel even better mentally now that I've cut the alcohol way down to once a week .. a glass of wine with dinner on Saturdays for a "treat." Alcohol is a depressant, so that makes sense.

For cravings (for both alcohol and sugar) I take Chromium and L-Glutamine. The cravings have pretty much stopped now.

Take care friend, and please call your Doc.

Lee

[dyffcult]

Thanks for the post.

I knew that my 75lb weight gain was due to the Effexor, but given my state before medication, it seemed like a great trade off. My family and I would rather that I be fat then dead....

Well, I did my own test today. I had a few beers and the electrical symptoms seemed to disappear. Given that I only experienced such symptoms each time my medications were elevated, I tend to believe that the 300 mg a day is more than my body can handle when I don't drink anything at all.

I guess the next step is to talk to my doctor about dropping my dosage if I am going to quit drinking. BTW quitting drinking was not hard at all. It was that wierd electrical side effect thingy that I cannot deal with.

Perhaps if I can get a few tablets at lower dosages and try to drop my daily dosage as I cut out the alcohol, I won't have this horrendous side effect. That would be great because, believe it or not, even after only two days I felt skinnier on the atkins plan. I liked that and would like it to continue...

Thanks all for the support....

dyffcult

[alaskaman]

Alcohol is powerful stuff. I had quit last feb. when my mom died - i needed to be together to help my dad and stuff. Felt great - never thought I would need it again. Now I am back at home after a one month wonderful rv trip, and I have started again. Felt like there was nothing to come home to - disrespectful teenagers, rejecting wife, etc. So far, even with the pint of vodka every night, my blood sugars are ok and I have not gained weight, but I know that it cannot continue. My dr. says try AA and I guess I must do that.

[tina-mich]

Has anyone had a couple of glasses of red wine once in awhile and still lose weight? Are you counting the carbs? I am new at this wol I use to
drink wine at night it helps me sleep and also helps
with bm. Would love to hear from anyone. Tina

[KristiTalm]

I've read this whole thread and I'm really grateful that it was started.

I tried atkins several times from january 2001 through March of this year with little weight loss. One of the biggest reasons I wasn't losing weight was because of my wine (and occasional martine) consumption. I was very stressed out with work, school and being a mom to two bueatiful children and I felt entitled to relax with a few drinks in the evening. I was never an every day or morning/ day drinker, but I decided to "try" A.A. and I can tell you, it was not for me. There are many wonderful people in the program, but it is a lifetime commitment for them. I listened to many stories that I could not relate too and decided to stop going. I have been receiving many calls to come back, but I just don't belong there.

Now that I drink far less (maybe 1x a week, 2 if there is a special occassion) I have found that my weight loss has increased by leaps and bounds. I also follow a plan of 10x my current weight in calories and go for 50 carbs or less. Since April, I have lost 38 pounds, so to answer the question I've seen several times, alcohol does affect weight loss.

A.A. afforded me the opportunity to realize what the disease of alcoholism is really about and it opened my eyes to the understanding that life is to be lived, not wasted. You should have good friends and spirituality and not sit home alone or waste all your time worrying about things that don't matter (like something stupid at work). The problem with a non-bottom person who goes to A.A. to "see" if they have a problem is that sometimes, you end up surrounded by people that want to suck you into the program, even if you don't belong there.

It took a lot of courage to start this thread. Thank you for being so brave Suzanne. I also appreciate all the posts and all the perspectives on this issue. It took me a couple hours to read all the posts and I believe it was time well spend.

[osuzana]

KristiTalm
Thank You so much for taking the time to read through the whole thread. I am amazed it is still going! There are apparently a lot of folks who found this subject interesting for one reason or another.
I, unfortunately am still doing battle with my nightly habit. My weight has dropped a bit, but not near what I want.... Were you an evening drinker? I honestly drink to get sleepy.... seems if I don't, I just stay awake. I hate that!!! :rolleyes: The stupid thing here for me, is that I wind up waking up in the middle of the night anyway to make a trip to the john, and then it takes me another hour or two to get back to sleep.
I like the feeling I get from the wine... it just seems to take the edge off of the day. But your reply has given me hope... so I'm glad to wrote. I especially see that you have been very successful in your weight loss! :thup: and you are an inspiration to me.! O'suz :cool:

[tina-mich]

I have also read the entire thread thanks Susan for starting it. I've been checking often. I also like you Susan have been a red wine drinker at night. It relaxes me & I sleep better also it helps my shoulder and neck pain. I do believe however that this hasn't helped me with my weight loss. I at times can go without drinking for long periods of time I still don't have a great weight loss so (I go back to having my couple 2 or 3 glasses a night since there wasn't any great weight loss.I'm 53 years old and I know I need to exercise I joined curves and now I can't because I'm going to therapy for my neck and shoulder. I really need to lose weight I wish that a can just do it. I've had alot of stress in my life lately a daughter with 2 small kids that has lung disease needs a lung transplant( she has never smoked)she had 4 operations in 5 months and she is skin and bones I've gained the 55lbs, that she has lost. She looks like horrible(skinny) but beautiful in the face. So at the end of the day my red wine relaxes me. I also watch my carbs all day and count double carbs for the wine that I drin. BTW I never drink and drive. I can really relate to you Susan.Thanks Kristin for your post I believe what you are saying I would love to have your willpower. I believe that my problem is stress. I would love to hear anyone's imput postive or negative I have an open mind> I thank God for this thread because I feel that I've just poured my heart out. Sorry for this being too long but thanks to anyone that has read it. I believe we need to help eachother

[tholian8]

I too have read the entire thread and am so glad this subject is being talked about with such honesty and lack of judgmentalism.

I am so ambivalent about my drinking. That's slightly strange in and of itself--I am rarely ambivalent about anything in my life. 99% of the time I know exactly what I want and I know what I have to do to get it. My drinking habits have been bothering me for years, but at the same time I feel I do get some "legitimate" pleasures out of it which I don't want to give up.

I love food/wine pairings. I love the lessening and loosening of inhibitions. I love that it makes socializing easier and more fun. I love the sensual pleasures of some drinking occasions, such as a lovely summer night in the garden over a bottle of white wine. Drinking enhances the pleasure of my life in so many ways...if I were told that I could never drink again, I would miss it awfully and I would have to grieve, as there would be no substitute for certain aspects of it. (There is nothing like a good food/wine pairing, for example. Diet Sprite is just not the same.) And dammit, sometimes I just love the buzz.

However, the feeling of "losing to myself" over drinking limits is a serious blow to my self-esteem. I consistently set limits for myself which I then do not obey. This doesn't happen every time I drink, but it happens often, and when it does I'm likely to get a "what the hell, I've blown it again" attitude and stop caring how much I have. Which leads to a blowout, a hangover and self-recrimination the next day. Then I try to scare myself into never overindulging again by imagining the most dire health consequences and calling myself all sorts of names. It never works.

I also know that alcohol slows down weight loss, and I note that my best week on this plan (3 lbs down) was a week when, due to outside circumstances, I was unable to indulge in my nightly drinking habit. I did drink that week, but not every night and certainly not to the extent I'd become used to before. I missed it somewhat, but not all that much. There were other things to do.

So, emboldened by this thread, I asked myself, "What's my outcome for this? What do I want from my relationship with alcohol? Imagine that the Whoosh Fairy came along and waved her magic wand, and suddenly I had a PERFECT relationship with alcohol which gave me everything I wanted...what would that look like?"


I would thoroughly enjoy wine, beer or spirits as a complement to and enhancement of good food; as an enhancement of certain special moments; or as a mild social lubricant.
I would consistently be able to stay within my self-imposed drinking limits.
I would be able to set realistic limits for myself, which would balance quality of life, present circumstances and health/weight loss concerns.
I would be able to consistently say "no" to that insistent desire for more, and to fight the cravings without feeling deprived and "policed." I can do this with food quite easily; why will I not do it with booze? And yes, with me it is a matter of "will not" rather than "can not." At least that's what I believe about myself.
I would be free from any preoccupation with alcohol or drinking.
I would consistently wake up in the morning with a clear head and not regretting the amount I had to drink the night before. In fact, the amount I'd had to drink last night would rarely, if ever, cross my mind...because there would be no need.
I might drink every day, or I might not. But I would rarely get drunk, regardless.


I will think about this list for a bit, and then I will post to this thread about how I could possibly make some of the above changes. I know that a "rules" based plan will not work for me, because I automatically rebel against any rules I make for myself. LC dieting doesn't feel like "rules," it feels like positive choice making. I will spend some time thinking about why this is so and seeing if I can bring that attitude into my relationship with booze.

I call my journal "days and nites of a LC booze hound." I picked the name because it makes me smile, but it's also a way of reminding myself, "hey I'm a little worried about this."

Thanks again for this thread.

Emily

[KristiTalm]

This thread is really interesting sooooooo. BUMP! :)

[Tedmom]

I've been lurking on this thread for quite a while and finally have the strength to post my own story about red wine in the evening. I have had this same habit for at least the past 6 years. I have a high stress 40 plus hour a week job and am also mainly responsible for taking care of our children, pets and household while my husband travels frequently for his job. I have always enjoyed red wine, especially wine with food. However, instead of only having wine with a nice meal at a restaurant, I started having a couple of glasses of red wine in the evening after putting the kids to bed, walking the dog, and cleaning up the kitchen as a way to relax. Over the years, the couple of glasses gradually turned into a half a bottle to a bottle on some nights. This, of course, helped add to my growing weight problem, but I found that I needed the wine in the evening to relax enough to go to sleep. However, I've been on/off Atkins for the last year or so and found that my weight loss was constantly being sabatoged by the wine drinking. When my husband started nagging me about drinking too much, I found that would only make me want to have more to drink and then I would feel even worse. I would then wait for him to go to bed, have my wine and sometimes fall asleep on the couch watching the late news. Other times, I would binge on the wine while he was away on business feeling I was "getting away" with something by doing it while he was gone. At the beginning of the school year, I decided I would make a strong effort to get on Atkins and really make a concerted effort to decrease the evening wine consumption since this habit was not only bothering my husband, but was really starting to bothering me. I have found that being faithful on Atkins has made it harder for me to drink wine and I seem to be losing interest in it. At night before going to bed, I will now have some Atkins ice cream or a LC chocolate snack and I seem to be satisfied with that instead of the wine. I have slipped a few times over the last month, but I've only had a glass or two, rather than a whole bottle, of wine on these occasions. I am hoping that as I continue with Atkins and my weight loss continues, that I can at some point not have to consciously struggle with the evening wine issue every night. Since my cravings for pasta/bread seem to be suppressed, I'm hoping the same will happen with the wine. Thanks for starting this thread and all of the support each of you have given to each other. It helps knowing that there are others out there dealing with this same thing.

[lowcarbtri]

What a great thread!
I read a lot of interesting things, and found myself many times.

I have chosen the AA route, but I loved what Kristi had said regarding AA's ability to "suck" in the non-bottom drinker. I had a VERY high bottom. For the uninitiated, a "bottom" is the "depths of your despair," as in finally hitting bottom. Years ago all alcoholics basically lost everything, hence "hit bottom." Nowadays, there are many of us who still have great jobs, families, cars, homes, etc. yet cannot control our alcohol consumption. We are considered "high bottom" drunks.

I do believe that I have a very addictive personality. I am addicted to beer :doah: , but have been sober almost 3 months now. I am also very addicted to sugar, my favorite being brownies. I am trying to change things in my life so that I am once again healthfully addicted to an athletic lifestyle.

For those folks in the thread who are contemplating if they have a drinking problem, you probably do. I found that normal drinkers don't think twice about consumption, those of us who question it have some level of conflict with alcohol. Now, whether or not you are an alcoholic, only you can decide. I can recommend a great book, Under the Influence. Goes through the various stages of dependency. Damned if I can figure out where I fit in. For right now, I have chosen to call myself an alcoholic. Not a day goes by that I don't question it, but if I am a real alcoholic, I need to watch out for my disease talking to me, because it will surely tell me I'm not an alcoholic.

Either way, we are all making great strides in our lives by making the efforts necessary to live more healthfully, happily and (hopefully) in a better body!!!

Thanks for all of the posts, they helped alot. For today, at least, I am sober and LOW CARB as well!!!!

Here's a quote I like to keep in mind (for myself):
"I would rather live my life sober, believing that I am an alcoholic,
than drunk -- or even a little drunk -- believing that I'm not."

Ken

[komireds]

Just a little inspiration for you: I dropped drinking a year and a half ago. I have never been happier, healthier, or felt better about myself. It doens't sound like you are a serious drinker....but a habit is a habit (and then it is an addiction when you feel soooo torn about leaving it behind)....and it can be really important to your evolution as a human being to figure out ways other than alchohol to help you relax and be at peace with your world.

[osuzana]

komireds
Your words are very inspirational.... Tell us if you will, how did you approach not drinking.... and if you would, why? What worked for you, many of us here struggle and would love to hear from someone who was strong enough to leave it. What were some of the things that got you through? and What did you discover that has helped you find relaxation and peace within yourself? :)

[tholian8]

normal drinkers don't think twice about consumption, those of us who question it have some level of conflict with alcohol.

Well, I said I would post again and here I am. While I agree that those who have never had a problem with booze generally don't think twice about the amount they drink, I would stop short of saying that internal conflict about alcohol is, in and of itself, diagnostic of problem drinking--especially in American culture, where the strong anti-alcohol bias tends to intensify and bring to the fore any issues or conflicts we may have around our drinking behavior.

(Full disclosure: I've been involved with Moderation Management (http://moderation.org) for five years, at one point serving on the Board of Directors of that organization.)

That said, I'll continue from my last post, in which I gave a list of my preferred outcomes for my relationship with alcohol (which I'll abbreviate as EtOH from now on), and how I'm doing with it:

I would thoroughly enjoy wine, beer or spirits as a complement to and enhancement of good food; as an enhancement of certain special moments; or as a mild social lubricant.

I am happy to say that since my initial post I have made a good deal of headway with this. My goal has been to enjoy EtOH without feeling like I have to get drunk in order to do it, in other words to drink like a civilized person. Quite honestly, the main reason for my success is probably the sheer reduction in my bodyweight--closing in on the 40 pound mark--which simply means that EtOH affects me faster and harder than it did in my fatter days.

I would consistently be able to stay within my self-imposed drinking limits.

Working on this has brought up the whole issue of limits, which is a big one for me. Limits to anything, it has nothing to do with EtOH. I simply will not be told what to do, not even by myself. If I decide, for example, "I'll only have one glass of wine," I madly resent and resist it, and might have two or even three glasses of wine just to "prove" that I can't be controlled. However, if I go into a drinking situation paying close attention to my body and my state of mind, I may well end up having only one glass, or none at all, because I simply don't feel like it. So for me, the whole subject of limitations seems to be a quagmire. More about that here as I continue to work with it.

I would be able to set realistic limits for myself, which would balance quality of life, present circumstances and health/weight loss concerns.

This is (obviously) related to the limits issue above, but I have an easier time when I think about it in terms of what is "realistic." It is not realistic for me to expect myself to have a maximum of 2 drinks per night but, in any case, no more than 9 drinks total per week--this is the current "safe" drinking limit recommended for women by US authorities. Attempting to adhere to that limit in the past has brought only feelings of failure, shame and anger very similar to what I experienced when I used to try unrealistically low-calorie diets. So I have decided that instead of focusing on something that I resent and will not do, it might be better to focus on what I will do, what I am willing to do. And I am certainly willing to, for example, forgo the "killing time" drinks I used to have while waiting for trains, buses or planes, or waiting for the opera to get over. (My gf is an opera singer and I often spend time waiting to meet her after work.) I have cut those out completely.

I am also willing to switch to lower-alcohol beverages, for example to have my main drink be a wine spritzer type of thing rather than full-strength wine. I did this a few months ago and have been very pleased with it.

I would be able to consistently say "no" to that insistent desire for more, and to fight the cravings without feeling deprived and "policed."

Focusing on the calories and carbs in booze has been the key to not feeling deprived and policed. In order to cut down on EtOH, I have to have a reason which motivates me. It doesn't matter what other people think is a compelling motivator--the disease model, or the gruesome health consequences of very heavy drinking, or whatever--if it does not convince or compel me, then it is worthless as motivation. Recognizing this and not beating myself up for it, has been crucial.

I would be free from any preoccupation with alcohol or drinking.

Doing fairly well with this. But I have had to think, "what is a preoccupation?" Certainly I do not spend the majority of my time either drinking, planning to drink, or thinking about drinking. I never did. So what did I mean when I set that goal of "no preoccupation?" To never think about it? That's not realistic. If you're wondering what wine to serve with dinner then you're thinking about it. More refinement is necessary on this goal, as I think I accidentally set myself a perfection frame with it, and that's not helpful.

I would consistently wake up in the morning with a clear head and not regretting the amount I had to drink the night before. In fact, the amount I'd had to drink last night would rarely, if ever, cross my mind...because there would be no need.

Also doing much better with this, although by no means perfect yet. I think I'm getting ready to quantify things in this department, that is, keeping records of how much I'm consuming and how I feel in the morning, in some kind of objective manner. I already do record my EtOH consumption in my journal, as part of my food log. But I may do something a little more specific in the future.

I might drink every day, or I might not. But I would rarely get drunk, regardless.

I have wine with dinner almost every night. When I don't feel like it, then I don't. There aren't too many nights when I don't feel like it. ;) However, the getting drunk is way down since the last time I posted. A lot of that is due to a MAJOR life stressor going away, finally, after 2 years of waiting. Some of it is also, I suspect, due to some serious inner spiritual work I have been doing lately, which has absolutely nothing to do with drinking.

FWIW.

Emily

[komireds]

komireds
Your words are very inspirational.... Tell us if you will, how did you approach not drinking.... and if you would, why? What worked for you, many of us here struggle and would love to hear from someone who was strong enough to leave it. What were some of the things that got you through? and What did you discover that has helped you find relaxation and peace within yourself? :)


hey! Thanks for asking. Here's how I did it....

First off...the biggest thing for me about not drinking was making the decision to stop drinking. People make that decision for all different kinds of reasons, but once you make it...it has to be IT. But that decision doesn't have to be overwhelming. What I mean is this...you can set up little goals for yourself. Make tough decisions, but have realistic objectives. Like, "I won't drink for a week." "ok, now I won't drink for a month". I would constantly lavish myself with compliments and back patting as I found myself sticking to these goals. I DID NOT let myself off the hook! And I certainly did not swallow the lame AA thinking that relapses are "normal." I did not accept defeat! I saw it as a battle of sorts that I felt that I HAD to win. I would really just psych myself up about my plan. If the plan was a month of not drinking, I would write about that plan in my journal, think about the plan while working out (all the while imagining myself reaching that goal) and tell my loved ones about my plan. Once that goal was reached, I would look back on that time and ask myself, "what did I accomplish in that month of not drinking that I probably would not have if drinking? How much $ did I save? How many calories did I get to spend in other places? How many hangovers did I avoid? Do I feel like a better/stronger/more intelligent person?" When the answer was always yes, I knew that I had no choice but to make it another sober month. Before I knew it, it was a year and I felt pretty free from it.

You can really set yourself up against your desire--get mad at it...yell at it...see it for what it is--your enemy. Now, the key is to start seeing it as your enemy..which goes back to the decision thing. If you have decided that this is something that you want to do...then see acholol and your desire for it as your enemy. I know...it sounds drastic, but changing something like that requires drastic measures. Otherwise, you just let youself off the hook. Keep in mind, I wasn't even a fall down drunk. I didn't hit "bottom." I just saw, in one wonderful moment of clarity, that alchohol had taken on too much importance in my life and that I had to leave it behind.


Now to relax I take a walk, or pick up my guitar, or write in my journal, or laugh at stupid tv shows, or cry, or scream, or ANYTHING other than just dumbing down my emotions with booze. It's so much better. It really is. I now read more, think more and am just generally much more happy.

I hope you find inspiration in that. :yay:

[Joanna]

Hi Komireds!

Interesting. What you're describing was EXACTLY how I gave up smoking 30 years ago, right down to the brilliant moment of clarity! Once that decision was made there was no turning back. I'm not saying it was easy, but it was a hundred times easier than it would have been if I hadn't separated me, myself, from "the monster".

I've never had that moment with alcohol. I've never reached that point of separation. In some ways I wish I could, but there are things I like about drinking, and the thought of giving it up completely makes me feel sad. I probably drink too much to be good for me but not enough for problems to become blatent.

On the other hand, I have no doubt I'd be more a more functional and perhaps happier person without it. Hard to tell.

I liked Bert Pluyman's approach when he finally gave up drinking. He told himself that if he wasn't having more fun without booze after a year, he'd take it up again!

It's a very complex thing.

Glad you found your way!

Joanna

[komireds]

[QUOTE=Joanna

On the other hand, I have no doubt I'd be more a more functional and perhaps happier person without it. Hard to tell.

Joanna[/QUOTE]


Try it! That'a an easy way to tell :wiggle:

It's very interesting that you quit smoking the same way. Good for you! :thup:

[RockerChik]

Hi, Osuzana & Everybody! I just finished reading EVERY SINGLE post on this thread! Whew. Well, actually, it took me a few days during my down-time at work but it was soooo interesting and helpful just to get everyone's point of view. I especially love hearing from all of you fellow musician-gals out there! Woo-hoo!

I'm a singer/songwriter in New York City who also works part-time in a small office 3 days a week (to pay the rent). I'm 41 years old, no kids, but I'm well into my second marriage and I live a very hectic, often high-stress life. And I just love my red wine. I don't drink every night, just when I have a gig or when I'm socializing - which is maybe once or twice a week. When I drink, it's always a fine red wine (I love those new Australian wines - especially the Shiraz!) and it can be anywhere between 2 glasses to 6 or 7 glasses and a real good buzzzzz.

I suffer from fibromyalgia pretty badly and drinking sometimes (not always) causes a flair-up in my pain that I simply cannot afford. I actually have to consciously "plan" my drinking patterns to insure that I don't have anything too pressing or urgent to do the day following some drinking, in the event that my pain would get in the way. This is kind of annoying, and some might say: "Well, if it's that much of a HEALTH issue, is drinking really worth it?" I would have to say that - yes - it is. It is truly something that I enjoy and feel that I deserve. What can I tell ya. That's just me. I don't drink and drive. (But I do drink and sing!)

As far as LC-ing and drinking - no doubt it does slow down MY weight-loss progress, but I am still losing and feeling MUCH better than before I started this WOE so I have no problem continuing as I presently am, imbibing here and there as the occasion beckons. The LC-ing has also done wonders for my fibromyalgia pain. It is much less frequent/severe. Thank goddess for this WOE, because I feel it is absolutely the "answer" I have been looking for. I also suffer from hypothyroid disease, so I have been truly metabolically-whammied in this lifetime and I really needed SOMEthing and this has been "it" for me.

Oh - also - O'suz - I used to rent a cottage up near Lake George to vacation every year. You live in Friend's Lake? I used to stay in Lake Luzerne and would drive over to the Friend's Lake Inn at least once or twice during the summer for dinner. That place was gorgeous. Is it still there? I recall petting and feeding the horses right next door from the Inn. They had great wine and wonderful food! Haven't been in years, since I bought my own cabin up near Woodstock.

Ok - I think that's it for now. Just wanted to chime in since I feel like I know you all. Oh - and I also loved Janice's post. She's a gal after my own heart -
Love & peace & rock n' roll,
Lena
www.bumpskey.com/gate18.htm

[Mabel]

Thanks for sharing this, everyone. It helps to know you're not alone. I feel more determined to stick to my New Year's resolution regarding wine drinking. I need to know if I'll be happier without it. I've just been scared and reluctant to try. I couldn't imagine what else I'd do in the evening. Yay! I am NOT alone!

[osuzana]

Mable.... Glad you found this old thread, keep us posted on how you are managing....Thanks O'suzana

[skipwas]

Wow,
I am new to the lc diet, but very familer with the drinking game. I will celebrate 7 years of sobrity this month and am very impressed with alot of the things I have read on this post.
If you find you have a craving for alochol, you may have a problem.
But I have learned starting my first diet that I crave carbs as well.
Am i a carboholic?
I dont know but I do know the answer for folks with a alochol problem.
Also this is the most I have written in years, I hope I make some since.
Peace,
Skip

[abowers]

Life is so damned hard...I really mean it! I too come from a family of party animals. I hit bottom a couple of years ago and went through rehab and AA. Well, I strayed. I do want to mention though that I got to the part in AA where I had done a fear list and one of my fears that I listed was that I was "missing out".. I figured out later, after starting drinking again, that I was missing out on ME!! I left that girl somewhere back in the early "80's, when partying was HUGE!" I left a sweet and caring individual that needed positive guidance. My parents are still together but they have their problems...alcohol. I felt so good when I quit drinking, in fact, I felt more like the inner child that I had left behind so many years ago. Nothing really "got to me" and then one thing happened over another and I lost a boyfriend and it hit me! I missed the old drunk me....how sad. So, needless to say, I started drinking again. I really would like to stop again but I didn't really like going to AA meetings. I was not to willing to hand it over to just anyone.
I live in creative mind which allows me to have different dimensions in my life. Not that I live in a faitytale world or anything, in fact, sometimes the complete opposite. I stuggle with my own brain and trying to convince it is a difficult thing to do. Now, we've got people on this website that are struggling with just trying to lose weight and then we have others who are dealing with not only trying to lose weight but trying to stay sober to lose weight.?????? How can we follow a diet that was probably made by a man who was a sober person? I don't know if Mr. Atkins was, but I'm assuming that he was a sober man. I guess for all of us out there who are addicted,not saying anyone is an alcoholic here, but trying to lose weight before we deal with other issues is almost nearly impossible. I tried the Atkins diet 5 years ago and failed. Not only because I started dating the vegetarian whose meals mainly consisted of pasta and bread, but because I couldn't stop the cycle of drinking to feel good. After a few drinks I almost always would eat foods high in carbs. Needless to say I gained more weight. I know that when I quit drinking I lost weight, felt better, had more energy and the list goes on. I do miss that time in my life.

On the sleep issue....Alcohol did help me sleep better. I know now because when I was trying to stay sober I would sometimes only get 3 hours of sleep! My brain was replaying everything from my past and sometimes your brain won't let you sleep! I have a couple of good suggestions that have worked for me and hope they will do the same for you:

1. Exercise. It always helped me stay focused and get to bed early! Mainly because it exhausted me!

2. Pray to the sandman. Somehow this usually works for me. Pray to your higher power and ask them to help you sleep. It worked for me! Sober or not!

3. I also don't believe in taking pharmecutical(sp?) drugs. I like herbal treatments, so I tried using Valerian Root which is a calming herb. It works! But check with your Doctor first before taking this! I have had no side affects from this herb, but you do feel kind of slow in the morning upon waking.

I wish you the best of luck and only hope that what I can contribute will only help you and others in need.

abowers

[neo_crone]

Hello all

This looks like it ought to be my natural home on this board ;-)

Just wanted to add my presence to this on/off thread. I have a red wine habit that totally undermines my weight loss attempts. I can lose on low-carb when I don't drink, but these days not drinking seems harder and harder to do. I have been on a binge since Christmas. Mama came to stay for the holidays and brought a case of wine along, and I drank more than my fair share of it. I have been on the tipple ever since. Before Christmas I was doing well, and not having a glass of wine for up to a week at a time. All I can do now is maintain or slowly gain weight.

I find winter most difficult, because I get much more depressed. I have started taking 5-HTP at night to help me sleep and alleviate depression. It seems to work, but it is expensive. I also take St Johns Wort off and on (I know, its a mild SSRI, and combining it with tryptophan can make one OD) I feel much more positive when I do take these supplements. That is to say, I don't consider suicide as an option quite so often. I wish I had the money to go to the gym these days, because that also made a big difference to my weight and my mood. Being poor and fat and drunk is not a good place to be. I am determined to get myself back out of this hole. Hell, I did it before, ergo I can do it again!

Looking forward to spring and positive thoughts and actions

neo_crone

[rosemarie7]

Ok everyone, I am just going to say what route I have chosen in regards to drinking. I have been in a group called Moderation Management. We believe that drinking is a personal choice and that we are not powerless and it is not a disease. I believe there is a difference between alcoholism and problem drinking. It is not always a perfect program and yeah maybe life would be better if I never took another sip, but these are some of the steps I've taken:
1. I do not drink everyday
2. Limit outings directly related to drinking
3. Eat while drinking
I have to say I find dieting to be so close to what we practice in MM as one can not completely abstain from food. There is talk that they want to call obesity a disease. I know most people believe in 12 step programs and yeah, they work for a lot of people. Anyway, I just want to say that I've had a drinking problem. I also believe that alchohol and sugar cravings are very close. It helps a lot to be on this low-carb diet.

-RoseMarie

[tholian8]

Hey there...glad you found this forum! You might know me from MM; I started the blog and I used to post as MM_UK and still occasionally do but not on the main list.

Yes, dieting is very much like moderating drinking, although there are those who would say that controlled drinking is not a "legitimate" option since alcohol is not necessary to survival but food is. But I say it's a quality of life issue.

Feel free to drop by my journal anytime--I post here way more than I post on anything MM related right now.

Emily

[rosemarie7]

Hi Emily!!!!!!!!

I guess MM has already been explained pretty well by you. I also want to say I love this site. MM is a very basic site, we can also e-mail each other directly. I guess here we do it through the journal, which I have to start. Anyway, I think people aware that there are alternatives to AA, including other abstinence based programs such as Smart and Women for Sobriety. I for one am very hesitant to slap a label on myself, there still is a stigma to "alcoholic", and my experience in AA was a feeling of humiliation, at least for me. I also am able to get daily support through MM, kind of like I do in this group. I live in an isolated area, and am having a difficult time, and MM has been a lifesaver at times.
Good to "see" you Emily.
This is an extremely long thread. I guess drinking issues are more common than we might think.
-R.M.

[bfritz_pa]

I obviously have not read every post in this thread but I have an interest. I've been in recovery for a good bit of time.

Addiction is an interesting thing... What I've learned in my time is that it can be deceptive

Woman : I only drink a few glasses of wine!!
Men: I only drink Beer (ME!!)

It's not what you drink it's what your heart tells you about your drinking!! If it bothers you... You got a problem..

Help is all around and it's obviously here on this board too!

Admitting your "problem" is the first big step.. Believing what you admit is the next hurdle...1 step at a time....

[tholian8]

There are many ways to deal with a problem, though, once you've admitted to yourself that you need to address it...this applies to weight problems as well as drinking problems.

[uskhi]

Hi all
I was glad to find this thread as I was wondering if there were many 'recovering' low carbers out there. I have been sober 13.5 years, I stopped smoking about 9 years ago using the same 12 step programme principles and now it feels like it's my time to tackle my weight, also a day at a time.

In some ways I feel my experiences in recovery are helpful as I have the 24 hour approach for the physical aspect of dieting and the prayer and meditation to deal with the emotional factors, but sometimes I can find myself using the excuse that as long as I don't pick up a drink it doesn't really matter if I eat a chocolate bar. I can't have two primary purposes and if push comes to shove I will go for the chocolate, but really I'm just rationalising what I want to do (eat chocolate).

Carbohydrate addiction makes sense to me, you only have to see how much sugar the average AA meeting gets through to wonder if there is a connection. I think low carbing helps my moods, maybe it's just the feeling that I'm tackling a problem that makes me feel positive and good about myself, or maybe it's a chemical thing, I do know I feel more at peace and in control when I'm not planning my next chocolate binge.

Anyway to all of you out there with any concerns about alcohol, I wish you well, there are many ways of recovering but which ever way you choose it's a positive thing to identify a problem and look at ways of tackling it. Whether you want to drink one or two less glasses of wine a week or go for total abstinence I hope you accomplish your goals.

[cmiskinnis]

Wow! So I'm not alone. I was surprised to see how many other women have this problem. Mine started about 10 years ago and I have only been able to stop once during the entire time for about 2 months. I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder about 4 years ago and I am on medication for it. I am doing better for it but the addiction to the wine is still there. It has made losing weight very difficult. Also, in addition to the extra carbs and calories that come from the wine, the tendency to cheat and even bringe is greater. I just had it happen last night and I'm sooo depressed. I think its time to find a support group in my area.

At least I know it's not just me.

[tholian8]

The depression will clear up a little when the aftereffects of the wine (and the carbs) wear off.

Hang in there. You can get control of this thing, whether you do it by cutting down or by choosing to quit.

Emily

[komireds]

Ok everyone, I am just going to say what route I have chosen in regards to drinking. I have been in a group called Moderation Management. We believe that drinking is a personal choice and that we are not powerless and it is not a disease. I believe there is a difference between alcoholism and problem drinking. It is not always a perfect program and yeah maybe life would be better if I never took another sip, but these are some of the steps I've taken:
1. I do not drink everyday
2. Limit outings directly related to drinking
3. Eat while drinking
I have to say I find dieting to be so close to what we practice in MM as one can not completely abstain from food. There is talk that they want to call obesity a disease. I know most people believe in 12 step programs and yeah, they work for a lot of people. Anyway, I just want to say that I've had a drinking problem. I also believe that alchohol and sugar cravings are very close. It helps a lot to be on this low-carb diet.

-RoseMarie

Wow. An incredibly interesting post. I like the idea of finding something other than AA to work with (I know a lot of folks, me included, who it just does not work for). I also bristle at the idea of labeling myself (or having others label me) an "alcoholic." I hate all labels and I refuse to see life through labeling eyes.

That being said, I have learned that you can be sober without stamping a big label on your head. I truly believe that one does not necessarily have to call oneself an alcoholic in order to be sober. I've been sober for about two years and, in my mind, the jury is still out on whether or not I was/am an "alcoholic." And if I am an alcoholic, by who’s standards do I judge myself? Who is to say what is alcoholic behavior or not? I mean, it’s a slippery slope and there is a lot of gray area. People love to pigeonhole you as a drunk and dismiss you, so that you don’t threaten them. For these reasons, I am comfortable refraining from the label for now.

Right on to the ladies who are successfully moderating. That sounds like an interesting group of people with some good thoughts. Unfortunately, I don't think I would ever be able to manage my drinking successfully for the long term. It worked for short periods, but it would continue to escalate during difficult periods in my life. It was kind of like a pendulum, for me. Also, and I mean this in all honesty, if I could give up food tomorrow (and live healthily and happily) and never have to deal with the millions of emotional problems that are linked to food, if I never had to feel guilty about it ever again in my life, if my choices were already made (on a daily level, and in the long term) and I never had to ever ask myself "should I eat that? Is that too much? Will I feel guilt if I do?" I would. And with alcohol, I CAN and DO do that. No more guilt. No more justifications. No more beating myself up. It's like a weight has been lifted from me. Honest.

[osuzana]

Hello fellow posters, ( This is long, sorry)

Wow... I can't believe this thread is still alive. I just wanted to add that I have within the last 2 1/2 weeks weaned myself out of drinking wine at night before bed. I never drink during the day because I simply could not function if I did.
Night drinking for me as you know if you read this thread, is just so I can totally relax, get a buzz, and fall asleep.

Well about a month ago a good friend had dinner with us several nights in a row...he has always been much more of f drinker than me. Day and night. Not fall down drunk, but like a nurser.

His daughter was in a bad car accident in Boston, and he and his wife had spent 8 days in the hospital with her, they did not drink!

WHen he was here for dinner with us, each night my DH would offer him (his favorite( red wine. He declined and said that since he spent 8 days without, he was experiencing the best sleep he has had in a very long time. He had no problem getting to sleep because the accident took so much out of him, that he was exhausted and welcomed sleep at the end of the day.

I payed a lot of attention to him. Deep sleep is what I was trying to get.... Oh sure I would fall asleep... but then around 4am I was wide awake, tossing and turning for the next 2 hours. Not good!

( Besides you simply cannot lose weight on this diet when you are drinking, and menopausal)
Anyway..weight loss being at a stand still for months, no matter how had I tried.... I caught a real good glipmse of my big fat gut in the mirror one morning while getting dressed. I couldn't believe how bad it looked....It actually scared me...why was it so big? I am NOT a big eater.... Had to be the wine!

My thoughts about my friend and how he felt about the wine, and sleep, just made me decide to wean myself off instead of just quitting....

Well I have to admit I am taking 1/2 of a xanax every day around 7 pm...
I have had xanax for about 10 years....( probably th same bottle ) I have always suffered from anxiety and panic attacks...although as the years have gone by, it's gotten better. I rarely have ever used the xanax, they make me sleepy, and I don't want that during the day.

My perscription allows me to take 3 per day.... I have never done that, I couldn't, I did not want to be dependent on them, and besides most people who have panic and anxiety, for some reason, fight the idea of taking any medication! It's Just the way we are.

Anyway to get on with it.... I only take half of a pill before I leave work...it takes about 2 hours for it to work, and it is barely noticible, but I have found that around 10pm I am sliding off to sleep on the couch in front of the TV... at first I was having a glass of wine at that hour, and would wake up and realize that the wine was only half full. I would say I'm too tired to finish, and I would go to bed instead.

Well night before last, I had just 1/4 of the xanax and no wine. Last night I had no xanax and no wine.... guess what, I fell asleep in front of the TV at 10:30pm ...so I got up and off to bed I went.

I am sleeping through the night, and am not all dehydrated, and dried out during the middle of the night. My dreams are vivid and I don't want them to end... This is heaven to me, I am feeling so good.

This means so much to me. I feel like I have been in training and am finally getting somewhere. The one thing I do know is that I can start fresh on the Atkins plan and probably have it work...

I have tried quitting cold turkey many, many, times, and became very discouraged because I still didn't lose (body was adjusting) and by the 3rd or 4th night of no wine my self was twisting it self around and trying to talk me into drinking before bed ...because I was NOT sleeping at all! SO I always gave in and had the wine.

So to those of you struggling like me... try weaning your self off.... I don't reccommend xanax to anyone.... I have had this medication for a very long time and hardly ever used it... It is addictive, and we don't want to be addicted to something else.... I think a mild O C sleep aid if you need it, will work fine. In fact I am going to see my Doc. and see what he tells me.

Actually maybe I won't need anything, because I did fine for the past two nights without. I just have to remember to learn to relax a little earlier in the evening, and when I'm tired ...to go to the bed!

I'll keep you posted if there are any changes. ~ Osuz :)

[WeeOne]

Good for you Osuzana!

I was only having a few drinks during the week and then always on Fri and Sat, maybe on Sunday if we were out with friends. Not having kids DH and I sometimes have way to much free time. I know bite my tongue!!! Now I am allowing myself one weekend night and one week night. On the week night I can only have 2 glasses of wine. (I usually would drink vodka and diet grapefruit but those go down like candy and it's to easy to pour another.) Last week I lost 3lbs! I know it was because I reduced my alcohol intake.

But here is one thing that I have learned about alcohol and sleep. Yes you do get sleepy, but you don't get as rested as you would if you had no alcohol in your system. I read this somewhere and I can't remember the specifics but it totally makes sense that you are feeling more rested and not waking at 4:00 in the morning and not being able to sleep.

Well, good luck to you.

Wee

[tholian8]

Booze is a double-edged sword. A glass or two of wine can help you get to sleep. But more than that, and you're likely to suppress your REM sleep, which means you don't wake up as rested in the morning.

[osuzana]

Finally success... I have not had a glass of wine or any other alcohol for one month.....I can't believe iv'e done it... and oddly enough, it doesn't bother me. OMG Imagine that!!!:yay: I feel great about it!

[amym]

I have been keeping up with this board but have not posted till now....You are such an inspiration Osuz...i am trying to remain alcohol free and hearing u have done it for a month is so great. I am working on day three !Thanks ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Amy

[tholian8]

Congratulations on a month off, and best of luck for continued success. Breaking the daily habit is IMO the toughest part, and you did it. :)

Emily

[osuzana]

Amym,

Thanks for the kudos... Yes, it has been a little miracle (sp?) I have been trying for so long to lick this habit. I can't tell you what triggered the abrupt stop, because I have been doing this for 25 years, and have made attempts before, that only lasted a couple of weeks. This is the longest, and the easiest...

I have absolutely no desire.... I did pray a long time about this, and then one day in the shower (Feb. 21 2004 to be exact) I just said to God... OK I give up, I can see you just want me to do this on my own for some reason.I get that you want me to stop poisioning myself....I had never thought of it this way! I call it DIvine intervention!!:angel: And that was the evening I started weaning myself off.

Little by little I quit. Started going to bed about 20 minutes earlier each night. I used to sit there, till the wine put me to sleep. Sleep has been up and down, but I'm OK with that. I wasn't sleeping very good when I drank, so I figured what's the difference..now once I fall asleep, (and sometimes that doesn't happen for a half hour or more), I'm sleeping much sounder, and have fun dreams....Waking up in the morning is such a pleasure.. no heavy head and dragging body!

I'm not gonna say it was a breeze... but it was a lot easier than other times and I don't know why... Except for my prayers to the Higher Power.. the bigger than me, the Creator. ( this is who God is to me)

What amazes me the most, is the fact that I don't even think about it. Can't figure that out. Before when I quit, I would worry all day how I was gonna get through the evening without.
I think one of the reasons I was so compelled was the fact of my weight... When I say I'm not a big eater, I'm not kidding... i don't think I got fat from eating... Up untill 5 years ago I weighed between 148 to 150... then menopause started and so did the nightmare of putting on about 12 pounds a year.... and that was without changing any of my eating or drinking habits.

I was freaking out! What was happening to me? My stomach was so fat I looked like I was 6 months pregnant.... I read several times about alcohol promoting excessive Cortosol in women going thru menopause, causing bloated stomach and weight gain...

So in my mind, I think drinking wasn't doing me any favors...It was literally poisioning me, but that didn't stop me... I just kept following my regular habit. Did not know how to live without it....I would starve sometimes instead of giving up the wine... 2 years ago I did that and lost 20 pounds.... in the long run, I was not feeling well, and even though I lost 20 pounds, I was still bloated and dissapointed... I put it all back on, plus 8 more in the last year and a half... And I work, I own a Salon and I am a busy hairdresser, so I am not sitting on my can all day!!!


This time, I kinda had the attitude that when I poured that glass of wine I was literally pouring poison into my body with every sip... And every time I looked at the glass I thought about that....


Now if I could only get the weight moving... It has been very slow... 21 days
and I have only lost 6 pounds... frustrating I did lose 8, but somehow somewhere, I gained back 2 so now I'm bouncing those 2 pounds back and forth. I figure I will lose them by the end of the month. As soon as the weather improves I will start walking.

As for you and your 3 days.... That is wonderful!!! Just keep doing one day at a time and soon they will all add up and you might look at yourself and say
"Self ... Iv'e come this far, it is silly to go back now!!!:) Good Luck~ Susan

[osuzana]

Tholian8,

Thanks so much for the congrats. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw that my efforts were noticed. I love the pats on the back... makes it seem more worth it. Especially if I can encourage anyone .

From your posts, I see you struggle too, but I think you are more in control than I was. Wishing you the best and Thanking you again ~ Susan

[LondonIan]

Susan, just for once I don't think we are going to be in conflict! I knew we'd find something we agreed on eventually!

I've found the evening drink habit has been growing on me for the last year and stepping up over the last month, certainly enough to make me question it.

About a year ago 3 things came at the same time: I got a new and very stressful job (and found I was popping into the pub on the way home every night, not just a couple of times a week), I stopped smoking (80 a day) and found my drink rate went up (sip every time I would have sucked!) and went on the LC (found that my very good internal regulator was adjusted to beer, but didn't function for wine or spirits).

Those who've looked at my journal will know I had perverse reaction to the alcohol-related death of a friend a few weeks ago - I decided to cut down and instead started drinking more. Like Susan, it the relaxing red wine at home that's the problem. Is it a problem or is it a glitch? I'm still undecided. I grew up with a severe alcoholic - does this mean I'm more susceptable or just that I worry about the possibilty more?

[tholian8]

Ian,

There were some alcohol problems in my household when I was growing up, too...but being adopted, I at least know that I didn't inherit them. I can, however, easily point to some very bad habits I saw going on around me and accepted as totally normal and unremarkable until I was in my 20s and realized that I was starting to re-enact them.

I had a bad ride through the 12 steps (AA and others, on the bad advice of counselors), and although the program does work for a lot of people, I found it to be completely unsuitable and unacceptable. Since this post is not intended to be an anti-12-step polemic, I'll leave it at that. ;)

What I have learned over the past two decades is that I basically have two choices when it comes to keeping my drinking within reasonable bounds: Either make it a daily practice, but absolutely no more than two glasses of wine (or equivalent); or, drink as much as I like but absolutely not on a daily basis, i.e., no more than three nights a week. Even four nights is asking for trouble.

I can follow either policy with good results. But even one extra glass of wine per night can be the tipping point where my tolerance rises quickly, and then it takes a hell of a lot more than two glasses to satisfy me.

I am having a sober day today and let me tell you, I'm really hating it. I'm lonely, I'm slightly bored, Gez is traveling which always makes me nervous (stupid, I know, but it's the truth), and I have some pressing personal issues which are really bothering me and which I would like nothing better than to "numb out" with some of what's in the box on my kitchen counter.

However, I can either practice voluntary self-control now, and learn to enjoy it, or I can practice enforced abstinence later, under doctor's orders, after ruining my health with too much partying. The former sounds like a much better option.

Emily

[LondonIan]

I think I'm with you on this, Emily. I'm having a booze free day today as well. Yes, it feels a bit weird - I feel I should be a lot more chilled out just about now. But, its really not that difficult. I think with me this is mostly about habit. Of course, the risk is, 'where would it lead'?

[Kristine]

I've been following this thread since it's inception, thought about posting many times, but never did.

I looked it up today because I suggested it to a newer member who was considering AA.

I just wanted to congratulate everyone for every little success they have with saying "not tonight". It's hard sometimes.

I definitely have issues with alcohol. I was blessed(?) with my dad's Celtic iron liver. I can drink my face off, keeping up with the guys, and not even be hung over in the morning. Yet I've always been aware of it, and with the exception of a few major benders during depressing times, I've kept it in check. My major challenge now is social drinking, and that's a lot easier to deal with than self-medication-based drinking. Not surprisingly, that's my issue with food, too. As long as there's no junk food in my house, I'm fine, but I'm extremely impulsive when "everybody else is doing it."

I've haven't had a drink since Saturday, which is the longest I've gone since January, the last time I did Fat Flush. I should really call it "Liver Flush." The only think keeping me going, saying no to alcohol, is that carrot dangling over the scale every morning. I'm distracting myself with weight loss.

Sometimes, I just hate that feeling when I decide not to drink, like last night when the BF went out with his buddies. It was quiet. Lonely. Boring. Just me, silence, and a ticking clock. A fridge full of food to binge on, had I chosen that, and believe me, I entertained the idea. If it seems like I made a zillion pointless posts last night, that's why.

Pardon my rambling... I think I'll subscribe to this thread.

[browngirl]

Hi all. I am new to the site and just browsing tonight to keep my fingers busy. I want popcorn!!! Anyway, stumbled across this OLD thread, the beginning actually back in '02. At first, I was just enthralled by what was being said, by the honesty of it all. I was moved, at first, to say how refreshing to read such sincere dialogue on such a serious subject. And then it occurred to me that I have the same "problem" as everyone else who posted. I like to drink. Period. Simple as that. I like how it makes me feel in the evening to have several ice cold beers or several warm glasses of dry red wine and just let go of the day. I miss that most about being LC. And I fought going LC for that very reason. I didn't drink every night of the week, but always on Friday nights and basically right through the weekend. This last weekend was my first weekend without. It went okay, but I am consumed with thoughts of an upcoming 4-day weekend vacation and all the drinking I plan on doing. I am also consumed with worry that I won't be able to resume my LC when I return. So I am of two minds. Do I test my resolve by drinking or not drinking while on vacation? Tough one. But what grand coincidence that I find this thread now when I probably need it most! Thank you Osuzana for starting it and everyone else for their highly relateable posts. Browngirl

[iamme]

This is a good thread .... I have found that I can not drink and lose weight... So for now I will hold off. My DH and I love wine. I did partake on Mothers day, but just a little :D

[PilotGal]

Hi all! I'm baccccccck! And after having company for 5 days that was drinking from the time she awakened, until the time she passed out, I'm thankful not to be drinking for awhile. And.... i pulled out my exercise machine! figured, i'd do the purge right! good to see you all!

[Bayrat]

I started drinking more wine in the evening and my weight loss ceased as well. Now I am limiting it to the weekend, but the first few days the craving was terrible. I seem to be able to consume LC beer and do OK though.

BRat

[easylyvin]

I just wanted to tell you my experience with alcohol. I have had an ongoing problem for many years. I would drink 6 drinks or more a day. I tried to quit over and over again, nothing ever worked. This year, a week after New Year's, I started doing Atkins. I wanted to lose some weight and I figured "Well, I'll do this plan, quit beer, and switch to vodka after induction." I look back on that now and just can't believe how sick I was. I did induction, and an amazing thing happened. I had no interest in drinking alcohol anymore! Low carbing took my cravings away! I didn't need it anymore, it didn't even sound appetizing. I also lost 25 pounds since January! I honestly think I had some sort of imbalance and the way I am eating now balanced me. You will feel TERRIBLE the first week, it will pass, after that this is just a great way of eating and living!

[LondonIan]

I'm glad to say that I've managed to bring this down a LOT since my last posting. I'm still wary - I need to be - but I seem to be drinking much more reasonably, or indeed not at all sometimes!

[rosemarie7]

Hi all,

I have had a few eating, drinking slips, but am very busy now, working seven days a week, so that has helped keep my drinking and eating under control. I also am bringing in more money, helping with the stress.

I think my weight gain has been mostly due to drinking wine and bingeing. I am really not a huge eater otherwise.

I too, looked in the mirror, and said "how did my gut get so big?" I really don't eat that much. Has anyone lost weight just by cutting way back on the drinking? I don't think I will lose more until I do that.

-R.M.

[Yellow281]

I am not sure I subscribe to the whole addiction thing. I am English and have lived in the US for 4 years so coming from Europe, we have a much different perspective on drinking wine. A glass or two of wine a day is very good for you. Its medically proven, part of the mediterranean diet (go to Italy, Spain or Greece and you'll count more 90 year olds than trees!). It depends on the quality of the wine you drink. Loading up on cheap Costco wine wont do you much good but theres reasonably priced wines out there which do better than fine.

I drink 2-4 glasses of wine a day, during dinner then hanging out with my gf, working late in my home office or watching TV. This can be daily or every other day. I need to shed 15-20 lbs so I am trying Atkins for the first time. Wine will be tough to give up as I enjoy the taste with dinner, its a part of our ritual at home, cook, listen to music, drink wine, talk over our day. But if I have to, I have to! (I dont drink liquor.. drink a beer occasionally)

Good posts all.. just dont sweat the wine so much ;)

If anyone wants any wine recommendations, let me know.

[Karen]

I am not sure I subscribe to the whole addiction thing. Try living without it. After 6 weeks you'll either know if it's just a habit and is easily replaced or forgotten - or an addiction.

Karen

[Marlaine]

I haven't read through this whole thread but I still wanted to share the single thing that keeps me from drinking. It's the knowledge that if there is alcohol on board (in your body) it's the preferred fuel. That means that while you have alcohol to burn for fuel, the fat burning ceases.

[LondonIan]

Pity I have a nice bottle of Merlot Del Venetto open as I read this. On the other hand, it has sat on my table unopened for four days.

[Yellow281]

Of course there is addiction. If you come home every night and empty a couple of bottles of wine alone, then you probably have an issue. But what some people have described here is recreational drinking. I think people in this country tend to throw the word addiction around a little too liberally and thats not always a wise thing.

If I have to measure addiction to things to the degree some people who have posted think perhaps they are to red wine, I will have to include for myself;

Starbucks
Rare Steaks
Stuffed Jalapenos
Looking at the guy who lives three doors down

:)

Just my 2p

[teriland1]

Very interesting thread here. I am a dark beer lover and that has been one of the hardest things to give up now. I still have low carb beer and wine spritzers (half wine/ half diet 7) Find myself bargaining with myself everyday. "Teri - have a cpl lc beers then you can still have a wine spritzer" I am doing ok so far in losing weight. We shall see what the summer brings - but I really think my biggest problem w/ weight gain was that beer I love so well. Another Lcer told me it was just like drinking liquid bread! I kept a journal of what i used to eat - not much! Even hubby said "I don't understand why you struggle with your weight, you really don't eat much" (as we sat by the pond finishing off a "mirror pond" (you know those taste much better BY a pond!)

Anyway - I love and miss my good beer.

Two things to ponder: So many many women, look forward to that wine/beer/drink in the evening...so many of us are stressed and can't wait for that unwind me time..what does that say to you about our role as women/mothers/professionals? We all have too much stress? Many men have a scotch or whatever hard drink in the evening (seems almost as strong as a cpl glasses of wine - I don't know) Whay does that not point to a problem w/ alcohol with them?

In comparison to England, Scotland, Ireland...seems to me MOST of them have something to drink every evening and are not concerned with it. Are they in denial? Are we overly cautious? Just a couple things to think about...that have puzzled me....

[browngirl]

Teriland1, I feel the same way about dark beer!!! I, too, have switched to LC lager (better than LC beer, in my opinion) but have fallen off my LC weight loss plan wagon. Must get back on! Just had to ask,: What is a "mirror pond"?. Just curious. browngirl

[tholian8]

In comparison to England, Scotland, Ireland...seems to me MOST of them have something to drink every evening and are not concerned with it. Are they in denial? Are we overly cautious? Just a couple things to think about...that have puzzled me....
As an American who moved to the UK a couple of years ago, I have been thinking about some of these same things. Amounts of drinking that would get you a diagnosis of "alcohol abuse," if not "alcohol dependence" in the US, pass by without comment in the UK and Europe. Daily drinking is extremely common, and no one thinks much of it unless it is obviously excessive with blatant effects on the person's life.

Also, over here, total abstinence is considered necessary only in the most severe cases of alcohol abuse. Heavy drinkers whose problem is not that serious are given the option to cut down their drinking rather than quitting. In the US, that is very rare--you're more likely to be told, "Get the cotton out of your ears, stuff it in your mouth, and get your a$$ to an AA meeting," if you admit that you are concerned about your drinking.

Perhaps the whole European continent is in denial. Somehow I rather doubt it. ;)

[teriland1]

I believe is made by the obsidian co.??? Here in washington state. I am such a beer connessiure (sp). I have had so many ales, stouts, bitters. It is a really good one. And the micro breweries here! OH MY. that will be a cheat day some day. There are times I have done an out of town farmers market (to sell my garden goodies) there is a really cute town about an hour away...with an even cuter brewery. I have to spend some of my earnings there sometimes. I am usuallly so hot and sweaty and tired from the market and if it was profitable..i celebrate.

[browngirl]

Ah...my kind of gal!!! There aren't many of us who like to sample the ales, lagers and stouts. It's one of my favorite parts of travelling: trying out the local beers. I did a bit of research there on your "mirror pond" and found it is an award winning pale ale made in Oregon by the Deschutes Brewery company. Perhaps I can persuade my local spirits store to ship in some of their product. I'd love to try the Obsidian. I am beginning to agree with many of the UK members that we Yanks put too much emphasis on "how much" and "how often". My brother-in-law is British and he and his family all love to drink---anything. But I have never considered once that any one of them had a problem in that area. Perhaps we need to lighten up our views on drinking while we try to lighten our bodies as well. Just a personal thought and not intended to insult or offend anyone! browngirl

[teriland1]

I agree with you on the drinking issue. Although I adore him, i think alot of americans - especially women are "Dr. Philled" to death. what I mean is we are on a national rampage to find our inner selves, heal wounds, Oprahing our minds...and maybe being a bit too critical? Again just my thought.

And ofcourse it is the Deschutes brewery! You'd think that the many times I enjoyed that beer I would remember. How could I forget! When I travelled to Mt. to see my oldest sister - I was forced to travel with 2 other sisters and my mother. What should have been a bonding experience - turned into a whiney, bossy, 4 days with one of the sisters. So the fun sis and I went to the pub everyday and sampled the local Mt. beers : Moose drool, slow elk, and scapegoat! Fun and yummy.

[alicat]

I've been on the forum for a little over a year and read this entire thread back then and keep checking back on it, glad to see it's still active. I have all the same problems many of you have posted with my evening drinks. I too struggle with whether I and DH have a problem or not in not being able to let go of it.

O'kay, I have a thought that's been bugging me about (it seems to me) the majority of your posts. I truly hope I don't offend anyone by asking this, it's nothing personal to anyone, just something I wonder about and have questions about in my head. So...

Am I the only one who drinks liquor? It seems like 90% of you drink wine. Now, I have never liked wine so that is probably the difference. It just seems strange to me that so many relax with alcohol and wine seems to be the alcohol of choice. To those of you who drink wine and care to comment, is it a concious thought in your mind that if you're drinking what we all seem to think is either too much of a habit or too much period, it's better that it's wine than the hard stuff? Does it seem as if it would be worse if it was booze instead of wine? I don't consider myself an alcoholic but I have a hard time like alot of you with relaxing without drinks in the evening. I imagine I drink the equivelent of perhaps 3-4 glasses of wine through the evening, except it's vodka and diet soda.

I really hope no one took any offense to these questions, I'm just really curious about the prevelence of those of you that drink wine. I realize there are health benefits to drinking wine, but it seems that for women at least, that's only 1-2 glasses a day and any more than that and it's just as bad for you as any other alcohol. Thanks to anyone who cares to respond about why they drink wine rather than liquor.

Love,
Ali

[alison38]

Hi Ali,

I find this thread interesting too though I've never posted before.

Regarding your question about wine- I drink it because I like it, but only red. I don't like white much it makes me feel ill after even a small glass- it seems to go straight to my head and not in a nice way!

I've never really liked spirits much, though I like the occasional malt whisky (neat). But that's pretty rare. If I liked it as much I would drink it on the same basis as I drink wine - because I enjoy it.

Best wishes
Alison