Dietary suplements really needed?

[Nick]

I would rarther get all needed vitamins and minerals from real food, can this be done? I have taken suplements in the past particularly when I have felt run down. I am not sure I am comfortable with it 'for life'. Are there thinks I can incorperate into that are rich in minerals that are often lacking in LC diets?

Similar story with dietary fibre. I'm currently taking psyllum husks but would much rather get it from natural things. Most of my carbo intake is coming from 'good' stuff like cauli, brocolli, asparagus, greens etc. It just dose not 'feel' like enough fibre.

I must admit I do have small reservations about a diet that does not provide the body with all necassary nutrients.

Thanks,
Nick.

[Kristine]

I think it is possible to get all your required nutrients from good food, but suppliments are a good back-up. They don't do any harm (AFAIK). Personally, I don't have the time or the inclination to tally my vitamin/mineral/nutrient levels; make sure I eat deep water fish three times a week; or whatever-else x number of times per week, etc, etc. It gets overwhelming. Seems like there's a new study every day telling us we're all deficient in vitamin X and we should be eating more Y and Z. :daze:

The key is variety in your diet - don't get stuck having the exact same menu day after day. Varying your veggies is probably the best thing you can do. I try. :)

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Nick
I must admit I do have small reservations about a diet that does not provide the body with all necassary nutrients.


Nick, the need for supplementing our diet with minerals and vitamins is not exclusive to LC. There are a few precious supplements that, due to our current 'modern' diet, most of us are defficient in. Taking a multi vitamin, supplementing with EFAs and taking a calcium/magnesium supplement are things that everyone should be doing, regardless of how they eat. Magnesium deficiency is huge in North America - the ratio of EFA's in our bodies are so skewed now that it is responsible for some chronic illnesses.

Those of us who take quite a few supplements do so for various reasons - some help burn fat, some help curb cravings, some help regulate insulin levels.

As for the fiber - when you remove the refined carbs from the equation your daily requirement of fiber drops dramatically (from 25g day to 10-15g a day). Fiberous veggies and fruits can do the job needed with ease. I eat my broccoli, asparagus and berries daily and I have never had a problem with constipation.

I would suggest you get a copy of Protein Power Lifeplan by the Dr. Eades - they spend a lot of time discussing vitamins, supplements and our need for them due to our modern diet.

HTH
Nat

[razzle]

Nick, I wish I knew

I've read and read and READ about this, and am not entirely convinced by any side of the argument. Some awfully credible sources say that no more than a single, 100% RDA vitamin/mineral pill is needed.

My gut instinct is to go with skepticism, tho, and I agree with not entirely trusting a long term way of eating that doesn't get you a lot of natural nutrients (including those we haven't yet isolated--it's not as if every substance the human body needs falls under "A, B, C, K, and E vitamins"

My conclusion at this point (and I reserve the right to change my opinion as I learn more!) is, the early stages of Atkins and PP...and CAD and CALP with the allowed grains/sugar that sap nutrients...these programs I'd say require significant extra supplementation. If a person has been abusing sugar badly, I also think that several months of supplementation in the "detox phase" would be advisable. Paleodieting or Zoning done with added calories (ideally from nuts and seeds and their fats) probably don't require it.

I think to a certain extent that buying organic local produce that you can make sure is grown with optimal soil nutrients helps assure you you're getting the best possible foods...if you foraged for things like greens in the countryside near you, that'd also be great. Wild/free range meats have more nutrients than traditionally ranched/fish farmed ones.

Excess fiber appears to carry a health risk--I don't supplement with any but I did just eat a salad last night that had 8 ounces of romaine and 3 ounces of spinach, so as you can imagine, I hardly need any extra! ;)

that's my $.02 U.S. I can't even claim to mostly believe I'm right, tho...as I say, all the above is a theory in progress.

[Heather]

Nick, the first time I LC'd my doctor recommended that I take at least Vitamins C and E. I take much more than that now. I think it helps as long as I don't megadose. I oppose megadosing as in some nutrients, like Vitamin A, can cause a serious health hazard and should only be done with a doctor's supervision.

I read Adelle Davis back in the 70's and thought I really needed to eat liver. I ate a whole pound of it and got Vitamin A toxicity. Not fun.

A little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing. As mentioned above, read and be informed. I think a little bit of everything is ok, but I think one should definitely take C and E - moderate doses.

You will find as you continue this WOE that you will become more intuned with your body's needs and will adjust to what it's telling you.

[doreen T]

Folks might be interested to read this article, 10 Vitamin Truths (http://www.nutritionreporter.com/10_Vitamin_Truths.html) by Jack Challan, The Nutrition Reporter. He states:..... If you think in terms of biochemical individuality and optimal nutrition, it helps to keep in mind that all people require the same 50 or so nutrients, but they differ in the amounts they need. A daily intake of 30 to 60 mg. of vitamin C will prevent scurvy. This amount, however, may not prevent periodontal disease. Nor may it protect against free radical damage to your genes, which can lead to cancer. (Linus) Pauling emphasized that supplements could optimize cellular performance, creating a foundation for optimal health.

So, do high-vitamin diets make a difference? They do. In consistently reading medical journal articles on vitamins and health, I've found two themes inescapable: people with high intake of vitamins have a low risk and incidence of disease, and people with low intake of vitamins have a high risk and incidence of disease.

Striving for optimal vitamin intake is a little like working to achieve straight As in school. If you stick with RDA levels, you're eating a grade C or D diet. You'll get by without flunking, but barely.It's a great article, and he also has some interesting comments on prehistoric nutrition as well :)

Doreen

[Atrsy]

but I am one who sometimes fails to get enough.

Razzle you said:
I think to a certain extent that buying organic local produce that you can make sure is grown with optimal soil nutrients helps assure you you're getting the best possible foods...if you foraged for things like greens in the countryside near you, that'd also be great. Wild/free range meats have more nutrients than traditionally ranched/fish farmed ones.

I think your thoughts are in the right direction, but you may be missing some important facts. Often "organic" just means that there are no added chemicals, such as insect sprays, during the growing process. And free range meats just means that they are not kept in pens, but rather allowed to run free. Sometimes that is not so good, depending on what they can find to eat. At least animals that are kept captive are fed a steady diet. (I agree that I don't like added hormones, but some growers do that--not all) As for wild animals, where do you think those deer eat? Right out of the farmer's corn fields!

Again about the veggies. These plants are grown with fertilizers that enhance the growth so that they can go to market faster. The proper nutrients are not in the soil, nor are they replaced as should be. Farmer's used to use crop rotation or let fields rest so that the nutrients could be replaced naturally, but now that is not feasable because of the need to use the fields all the time.

I think that technology has it's place. Not all things provided by nature are the best. Personally, I never pay the extra price for organic anything.

[Nick]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Before I tried LCing I had a very broad diet and think I probably got most nutrients I needed, often as not in great abundance. Guess thats a positive side effect of just eating to much. Trouble was I obviously got too much of the bad stuff as well.

Being fairly new to all this (about 5 weeks I guess) I have been pretty cautious about what I consume untill I am more comfortable with things. I hope I can introduce stuff into my diet without it going haywire. Its still a little hard at the moment as I am not completely in touch with how much and of what I can actually have. Guidlines in books are OK as a starting point but Im pretty sure I will need/be able to eat more than someone half my wieght and 3/4's my height.

Anyway I guess I'll take multi-vitamins until I get to grips with how things where panning out.

Cheers,
Nick.

[Cmommie]

Hi everyone I am new to the support forum for Atkins..I have been on Atkins for a week now and I keep hearing thru other groups about CoEnzyme Q10 which I believe is an antioxidant...and the other is LCarnitine....I sent my hubby to buy me some LCarnitine today and the pharmacist said that its something that has to be prescribed...does anyone know about this?

Do you think that a Mulitvitamin, Calcium, and Chromium gtf is good enough?

Thanks for any advice in advance :)

[doreen T]

hi Sherri,

Alas .. in Canada, a few of the amino acids are only available by prescription .. l-carnitine, and l-tryptophan being 2 that I know of. Most of the others you can buy off the shelf at a health food store.

Now, that being said .. if you go to a health food store, and quietly ask .. they often have it available "behind the counter". Be forewarned .. l-carnitine is VERY expensive, even in the States. Be prepared to pay $40 Cdn or more for 30 tablets of 1000 mg each :(

As for the multi, calcium and chromium .. :thup: those are great. You might want to consider taking magnesium along with the calcium .. they work in tandem. Fortunately, calcium and magnesium are commonly in the same tablet .. look for a formula that's 2:1 (usually 333mg cal and 167 mag). Calcium is recommended 1000mg daily .. so 3 tablets spread out through the day.

Another important mineral is potassium, which can get depleted during the early stages of low-carbing, since it gets washed out with the increased urine output. You can buy potassium supplements .. but the least expensive way is to use a salt-substitute such as NoSalt or NuSalt. These contain potassium, and you just sprinkle on food like regular salt. (I mix NoSalt 50:50 with sea salt, and it's fine to use in cooking too)

*note - don't use potassium or salt-substitute if you have kidney problems, or if you're taking certain meds for blood pressure, such as ACE inhibitors. Check with your dr. or pharmacist to be sure.

hth,

Doreen

[Cmommie]

Thanks for your help Doreen!! :)

[2much2g1]

I am going through the same thing as you right now...cant find l-carnitine...if you have any success, please let me know and I will do the same.Good luck!