Coconut Diet

[Abby3]

I'm looking for a forum to discuss the coconut diet. I was advised that this might be the place to post it. I am currently reading "Eat Fat, Lose Fat" by Mary Enig and Sally Fallon. I've read some posts about it on other sites but they don't mention the book. I would like to get your opinions and experiences with the diet and on coconut oil in general. The book has been helpful. For my weight, I am supposed to take 4-1/2 tbs. a day. I've been doing this amount for about four days and I have noticed an increase in energy and a decrease in hunger. The authors write that coconut oil and cod liver oil can cure many ills. Although I have never been diagnosed with hypothyroidism, I have many of the symptoms (low BP, low body temp, tired, etc.) Has anyone read this book? What are your feelings about coconut oil and cod liver oil? Has anyone with thyroid problems or other illnesses seen improvement after taking the oil?

I took my measurements about 2-3 weeks ago when I started back on LCing and experimenting with coconut oil. As of now, I have lost 1-1/2" off my waist and 1" off my hips!!! I've only lost 2-1/2 lbs. Along with the coconut oil, I am following a my own modified Atkins Induction program and doing 20 mins. of bicycling 5-6 times a week. Something must be working!!

Hope to hear your opinions, progress, etc.

Abby

[black57]

I use coconut oil, milk and coconut meat. The one thing that I would want on a deserted island would be a coconut tree. I reccommend the book "The Coconut OIL Miracle" by Bruce Fife. I think that it is amazing that I have lost weight with coconut oil etc in my diet. I also use MCT oil which is derived from coconut oil.

[Abby3]

Thanks for the post. I will look for the book. I'm sorry but I do not know what MCT stands for. The last two days I have gained back about 1.5 lbs. Is it possible to use too much coconut oil? I'm taking 4-1/2 tbs. a day and keeping the protein and carbs low. I am eating around 1200 cal. The book wants you to eat 1800-2500. I don't know if I can do that.

I feel the same way about coconut - it's delicious. Glad to hear it works for you. Your stats are fantastic.

Abby

[capmikee]

Medium Chain Triglycerides.

What is the "coconut diet" exactly? Is that what "Eat fat, Lose fat" proposes? I've read Nourishing Traditions by the same authors, but that's a much more varied diet, I think.

[Merpig]

What is the "coconut diet" exactly? Is that what "Eat fat, Lose fat" proposes? I've read Nourishing Traditions by the same authors, but that's a much more varied diet, I think.

I have a copy of "Eat Fat, Lose Fat", though not right here in front of me, so can't swear to what I'm saying. :D However it's basically a lowish-carb diet, but especially touts the benefits of coconut oil, and does recommend coconut oil be included as part of the daily diet. There is a fairly extensive recipe section too, with lots of recipes showing how to incorporate coconut into the diet. I'd call it more a high-fat diet I think - which sounds good to me. :D

You can see some exerpts from it here at google books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_MVwKoDvcj4C&pg=PA208&lpg=PA208&dq=coconut+muffins+"eat+fat,+lose+fat"&source=bl&ots=HpycBr3RL0&sig=Jjsu-NDoiw8cSTScOOEbpOSKG9Q&hl=en&ei=jXQRStOuFM3gtgeu97WICA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

showing recipes for things like coconut pancakes and coconut muffins. These recipes *do* use flour, so very likely higher carb than many of us want to go! I don't think it's a VLC plan. It also allows oats and legumes. The book states: "While most other diet plans tell you to leave certain foods out of your diet--such as fat, dairy, grains, meat, salt or desserts--the 'Eat Fat, Lose Fat' plan tells you how to include all these foods in your diet."

Their principal message seems to be not to fear fat. You can see quite a lot of the book at the google books preview. Page three there talks about America's anti-fat obsession, and goes on to say many people in the US are fat-deficient. They do refer to their experiences with the Weston Price Foundation.

They build on Nourishing Traditions, with notes about how grains must be soaked to help neutralize the phytic acid. In some ways it's a sort of Nourishing Traditions "lite" with emphasis on weight loss rather than general overall well-being, and emphasis on coconut oil comsumption.

[koolaunt]

Does the diet consist of eating coconut oil or coconuts, coconut milk or all of the above?

[Merpig]

Does the diet consist of eating coconut oil or coconuts, coconut milk or all of the above?

All of the above, though not *only* those things of course, but the emphasis is on getting coconut oil every day (and with every meal I think) - and other coconut in many of the recipes.

[Abby3]

I followed this diet for about a month and as mentioned above I did lose some pounds and inches. Along with the 1 tbsp. coconut oil at each meal they prescribe, I ate what the book advised such as the skin of chicken, bacon, cream cheese, etc. It was delicious but then I had my cholesterol tested and it was up 20 pts. from two years ago. I'm not sure if I can attribute this to just one month on this diet. It may be heretitary or just the fact that I am getting older but I am now back to my low fat/low carb eating. However, I wanted to continue the coconut oil because it gave me so much energy but I didn't want to ingest it although I still use a little for cooking. I read about oil pulling on the net and decided to try it. I did it for about two weeks and had great results. My gums got healthier and teeth whiter every day, my sinuses drained and the mild pain that I've had for years in my right ear causing dizziness cleared up. I have stopped the last three days to give my body a break from the detoxing but I plan to start again after awhile.

Now I am trying 1/4 tsp. cayenne pepper with warm water in the morning. It is supposed to clean the blood and lower bad cholesterol. I also add 1/4 tsp. apple cider vinegar to my daily three 32-oz. water to help with digestion.

Obviously, I am experimenting to see what works for me. I like the idea of homeopathic medicine and eating right for health.

Anyone tried any of these? I'd love to hear your feedback. I will post my progress for anyone interested.

Abby

[capmikee]

Coconut oil is higher in saturated fat than anything - even tallow. Saturated fat does raise your cholesterol. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It raises HDL and LDL together. Some evidence suggests that saturated fat does not raise VLDL. It does not raise triglycerides. High triglycerides are a stronger indicator of heart disease than low HDL, high LDL, or high total cholesterol.

Studies of the "cholesterol-lowering diet," which reduces saturated fat intake but not total fat intake, have not shown a reduction in death from heart disease. But they have shown an increase in death from cancer and trauma.

But I'm assuming most of this information is in the book.

[Merpig]

Coconut oil is higher in saturated fat than anything - even tallow. Saturated fat does raise your cholesterol. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It raises HDL and LDL together. Some evidence suggests that saturated fat does not raise VLDL. It does not raise triglycerides. High triglycerides are a stronger indicator of heart disease than low HDL, high LDL, or high total cholesterol.

Absolutely, plus I have read that on a LC diet there is also often a slight *rise* in total cholesterol at the very beginning, which then lowers after that, which I think is why it's often recommended that you not have your blood numbers tested until you have been on LC for at least 3 months.

But 20 points one way or the other is pretty insignificant, *especially* without our knowing what the HDL, LDL and triglycerides were for each of those tests also.

Coconut oil is beneficial for the heart. It contains about 50% lauric acid, which helps in preventing various heart problems including high cholesterol levels and high blood pressure. The saturated fats present in coconut oil are not harmful as it happens in case of other vegetables oils. It does not lead to increase in LDL levels. It also reduces the incidence of injury in arteries and therefore helps in preventing atherosclerosis.

I love my coconut oil. :D

[Abby3]

Thank you for that explanation. I wasn't aware that CO would raise both HDL and LDL. I am not overly concerned about my cholesterol since the ratios are still in the normal range, although my triglycerides did go up from 71 to 88 (Total 263; HDL 68; LDL 177). Of course, my doctor wants me to take meds for this but from what I have read I'm afraid they may do more harm than good. I do remember reading in the book that EVCO oil is supposed to be good for cholesterol and a whole lot of other things and that is why I want to continue it. Maybe I just need to cut out the cream, bacon, cream cheese, etc. Thanks again for the info.

Abby

[capmikee]

If you have a problem with dairy, smoked foods or foods cured with salt and sugar, then maybe cutting out bacon and cream/cream cheese makes sense. Otherwise it would probably do more harm than good to eliminate them - they are full of high-quality proteins and fats.

[Abby3]

I guess I'm finding it difficult with so much conflicting information out there about what is healthy and what is not, what diet works and how to eat right. Five years ago I started out doing Atkins and over a year lost 50 lbs. I have kept it off by eating a low carb/modified Atkins diet (I did add low carb yogurt). Now I seem to be stuck in the 170s. As I said, I tried the eat fat, lose fat diet and I loved it and I did lose 3-4 lbs. Maybe I should just forget about the cholesterol issue. It's so hard to know if you're doing the right thing. I am 56 with a history of lupus, in remission, but I have neutropenia (low white blood cell count). I am constantly reading and getting as much as informaton as I can about lupus and getting healthy. I sure wish there was a one size fits all answer!! :)

Abby

[Merpig]

Now I seem to be stuck in the 170s.

I understand the frustration of being *stuck*, though I tend to *stick* at a weight still some hundred pounds higher than your current weight - which frustrates me no end as I still can't get my head away from the idea that someone who weighs as much as I do should start to lose easily with a better eating plan.

I'm 57, and T2 diabetic, so I can also empathize with the difficulties of being an "older" female with some health issues to deal with.

Right now I'm trying out the Kwasniewski "Optimal Diet" plan, which is based on low carb, adequate but not excessive protein, and proportionally plenty of fat. The premise that some of us are working on who have experienced stalls, is that it is too much *protein* which can cause it. Kwasniewski's biggest critique of the Atkins diet is that he feels it allows too much protein.

I don't know yet if it will be a "magic bullet" for me, but so far I've lost 7.5 pounds on the plan. There are lots of threads on it, mostly under 'General Low Carb" - but at least one long and interesting one in the Paleo subgroup also, if you are interesting in looking there at all. The one with the most experience with his plan is Pangolina. :D

[capmikee]

Maybe I should just forget about the cholesterol issue.
Yes! You have bigger fish to fry. There's very little conclusive data about cholesterol anyway.

I find that things get a lot less confusing if you consider the source. Most sources of information that say that meat is bad, fat is bad, or carbohydrates are good are based on the lipid hypothesis of Ancel Keys. This hypothesis is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that eating low-carb is healthy, so if you accept it you are bound to be confused. A combination of personal experience and plenty of low-carb reading has helped me decide what to think of the lipid hypothesis (and the competing "carbohydrate hypothesis"). If you haven't made up your mind yet, it might help to tackle this big question first before you examine the details.

"Good Calories, Bad Calories" is mostly about how these two hypotheses came about and what evidence exists to support them. While I agree with Fallon and Enig on most things, their writing style and facility with the facts tends towards the fanatical. Taubes is much more level-headed and scientific about the subject.

[amandawood]

One place on the web you could go to to find info about the cholesterol myth is "Second Opinions" by Barry Groves. He'll give you some basic info which you won't even have to pay for.

That's where I got started on my low-carb journey and I haven't looked back for a minute. And haven't you also been to "coconut.org" by Bruce Fife? Surely he has exploded the sat-fat-is-bad myth for you???

Cholesterol is NOT a bad thing!!! It is manufactured in the body by the liver and we NEED IT!!! The history of the cholesterol myth is pretty scary and too long to go into in a midnight post, but, believe me, it IS A MYTH!!!

Our brains are mostly made of fat; our hearts prefer fat as fuel; people with low cholesterol get depressed or develop Parkinson's disease, commit suicide, crimes or die early. Low cholesterol is not a good thing to have!!! These are just some snippets to let you know that low-fat is a recipe for bad health, not good health. We need fat to function normally!!!

Read some more about this before you panic!

amanda

[PilotGal]

"Good Calories, Bad Calories" is mostly about how these two hypotheses came about and what evidence exists to support them. While I agree with Fallon and Enig on most things, their writing style and facility with the facts tends towards the fanatical. Taubes is much more level-headed and scientific about the subject.I agree with Mike. Before you get stressed out about the cholesterol issue, pick up this book and read it.
It will change your mind about a lot of things. :)

[Wifezilla]

The one thing that I would want on a deserted island would be a coconut tree.
No kidding!!!!

And Cpt Mike is right. Stop stressing the cholesterol. LOWER cholesterol levels are associated with HIGHER mortality. Here is an interesting blog reporting about men who have had heart attacks. The ones with the lowest cholesterol level had a higher chance of dying....
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2009/05/cholesterol-and-heart-attack-survival.html

Here is a great article about cholesterol by Ron Rosedale, MD...
http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/2103

[Melesana]

I use coconut oil, coconut milk powder, and flaked unsweetened coconut meat. They've cleared up my ringworm and nail fungus, softened my skin are now working on smoothing out my digestion. :) You're going to have to make your own decision about whether coconut oil would be a good addition to your weight-loss plan. I hope you keep your mind open.

Meg

[Abby3]

Thanks everyone. I tend to stress after seeing my doctor. She puts such an emphasis on cholesterol and it always makes me second guess myself. I have read a lot about it and that's why I would never take the meds prescribed for high cholesterol. I do agree with your advice and plan to dropping my cholesterol worries. Also as mentioned previously I loved the energy and other benefits I got from eating coconut and higher fat. My body was telling me it was the right thing but my mind got side tracked. I will give it another try. Also I will look into the Optimal Diet. It sounds promising.

[amandawood]

Hi Abby3,

This is a little bit off-topic, but if you have time to answer me, or point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful1

You wrote in one of your posts:

I read about oil pulling on the net and decided to try it. I did it for about two weeks and had great results. My gums got healthier and teeth whiter every day, my sinuses drained and the mild pain that I've had for years in my right ear causing dizziness cleared up.

I would be interested to read more about this, too! I tried "gargling" with coconut oil this morning because I had toothache and - whaddya know? - it went away again!!! I really don't know whether it would have gone away by itself anyway, but the VCO certainly didn't seem to do any harm. I have gum problems, too, and my dentist wants me to have some nasty-sounding (but profitable for him as he can charge more for me as I'm privately insured...) treatment.

I also have had dizziness and pain in my right ear lately, and also have a blocked sinus on the right-hand side of my nose so this sounds very interesting! Could you post the link to where you got the info from, please?

When I tried it this morning, I only managed to do the swishing around of the oil for about five minutes, but I think you're supposed to do it longer??? But I seem to get a lot of saliva accumulating and feel like my mouth is going to explode. I would be interested to read something about the actual technique you're supposed to use.

If you want to post it in my journal, just click on the journal button at the bottom of this post and you'll get into my journal, OK?

Many thanks in advance,

amanda

[Abby3]

Amanda,

I accidently came across a site called Earth Clinic while looking for natural cures. They have loads of testimonals about all kinds of natural cures. That's where I first heard about oil pulling. Also you can just google it and get directions how to do it. Some sites say to use sesame and sunflower oil and others mention EVCO. At first, I tried the sesame oil but hated the taste so I switched to EVCO. They both worked for me - in fact the CO was working too well. I had to take a week off to slow the detoxing effect. They recommend finding a schedule that works for you - some posts recommend four days on and four days off. My husband is a real skeptic about everything but I got him to try the oil pulling and he is now on the 4-4 day schedule. There is one concern with this and that involves mercury fillings. Some people say it loosens them and some say they have even come out. This is not an issue for me because all of mine are replaced.

I really like the site but some of the cures seem pretty complicated and possibly dangerous so I am sticking to the ones that I know can't hurt me. Yesterday I tried baking soda as a deoderant and to my surprise it actually works.

Let me know what you think.
Abby

[amandawood]

Amanda,

I accidently came across a site called Earth Clinic while looking for natural cures. They have loads of testimonals about all kinds of natural cures. That's where I first heard about oil pulling. Also you can just google it and get directions how to do it. Some sites say to use sesame and sunflower oil and others mention EVCO. At first, I tried the sesame oil but hated the taste so I switched to EVCO. They both worked for me - in fact the CO was working too well. I had to take a week off to slow the detoxing effect. They recommend finding a schedule that works for you - some posts recommend four days on and four days off. My husband is a real skeptic about everything but I got him to try the oil pulling and he is now on the 4-4 day schedule. There is one concern with this and that involves mercury fillings. Some people say it loosens them and some say they have even come out. This is not an issue for me because all of mine are replaced.

Let me know what you think.
Abby

Hi Abby,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me about oil-pulling. I shall look at the site you mentioned (I think I've used it before, actually) and see what they say. Recently, I have used VCO to combat toothache and a sore throat - just slowly swallowing it for the sore throat, which really helped, and gargling and then spitting the stuff out for the toothache. I can't believe it can work for so many things, but it does for me: maybe I am such a sucker that the placebo effect is at work here, but, what the heck, even if it is just a placebo effect, I'm not complaining if it works!!!

I am sorry I didn't get back to you earlier but I was away for five days and then, when we came back, I had a lot of gardening projects that needed my attention so I only spent a minimum of time at my PC.

Take care!

How are you doing in general? Why don't you open a journal so I can pop in and "see you" there? It's a great way to keep yourself on track, too.

amanda

[Abby3]

amanda,

I was thinking about opening a journal. I will probably do it next week when I'm off work. I've been kinda bouncing all over the place lately trying to decide what diet to do. I've been on Atkins for almost six years with some ups and downs. After my initial big weight loss of 50 lbs. things slowed to almost a standstill. So now I've been looking for another direction. I just read the cheat to lose diet and started it this week. For the last three weeks, I've been having a cheat day every weekend anyway, so if I can work it into a diet all the better. I'm also going to up my water intake and exercise which I've been slacking on. I'll start posting my progress in a journal next week.

About the oil pulling, most sites suggest sesame or sunflower oil but some people use coconut oil and other oils. I guess you have to experiment to see what works for you. Supposedly it only takes a few days to cure a sore throat or toothache. Hope it works for you. Good luck.

[amandawood]

amanda,

I was thinking about opening a journal. I will probably do it next week when I'm off work. I've been kinda bouncing all over the place lately trying to decide what diet to do. I've been on Atkins for almost six years with some ups and downs. After my initial big weight loss of 50 lbs. things slowed to almost a standstill. So now I've been looking for another direction. I just read the cheat to lose diet and started it this week. For the last three weeks, I've been having a cheat day every weekend anyway, so if I can work it into a diet all the better. I'm also going to up my water intake and exercise which I've been slacking on. I'll start posting my progress in a journal next week.

Great idea! Look forward to popping in to say hello!

About the oil pulling, most sites suggest sesame or sunflower oil but some people use coconut oil and other oils. I guess you have to experiment to see what works for you. Supposedly it only takes a few days to cure a sore throat or toothache. Hope it works for you. Good luck.

I've tried it for toothache and it did work! My ears were all blocked today and after 15 mins oil-pulling, they felt a lot better.

amanda

[capmikee]

Really? My ears get blocked all the time. And you can clear them out by swishing oil around in your mouth?

I haven't read any official oil-pulling stuff. Is there a brief set of instructions somewhere without a lot of testimonials/promotion, etc?

[amandawood]

Really? My ears get blocked all the time. And you can clear them out by swishing oil around in your mouth?

I haven't read any official oil-pulling stuff. Is there a brief set of instructions somewhere without a lot of testimonials/promotion, etc?

I can give you instructions:

1) Put a teaspoon/dessertspoon (depending on size of spoon!) of your oil of choice (olive oil, sunflower oil, sesame oil and coconut oil are popular choices) and put it in mouth. Swish this around in your mouth, press it between your teeth etc, for as long as you can. You will notice that your cheeks will start to swell as your naturally produced saliva is added to the mix. If your cheeks are about to pop, then spit a litte bit out into a bowl and carry on swishing. If you can't take any more after ten minutes, spit the lot out (coconut oil shouldn't go down the sink as it will harden, but I guess you could spit the olive oil down the sink). Take another teaspoon of oil and swish for another ten minutes. 15-20 minutes is recommended.
DO NOT SWALLOW THE OIL!!! After all this swishing, the oil has "pulled" out various toxins from your mouth, teeth and gums, bacteria have started growing in the mix, and hence it is pretty poisonous - so they say - so you spit the whole lot out, rinse a couple of times and brush your teeth.

I did this yesterday for 15 minutes and my ears, which were really blocked with mucous and pressure, felt a lot better afterwards. Today I don't have the same ultra-blocked feeling and did it again, but today I haven't had the same kind of relief. But your teeth do feel ultra clean afterwards!

I felt really peculiar yesterday with sinus problems and mucous running down the back of my throat, blocked ears, dizziness, that I was willing to try anything!!! As I say, it helped a lot and I don't have the same nasty mucous problem today or any dizziness.

However, the blocked-ear feeling hasn't gone away completely. Nonetheless, I am going to stick with it as I have gum problems too and amalgam fillings in three teeth. The oil pulling apparently also works as a mercury chelator, too. My dentist proposed a nasty-sounding treatment lately for my gum problems and I don't want to have it done (he makes more money off me as I'm privately insured and the treatment would involve a lot of pain and measurements being taken - for his benefit, not mine) plus he wants to put a slow-release antibiotic tablet under a tooth, which would be giving off antibiotics for about 6-8weeks!!! No sirree!!! I have therefore decided to give this oil-pulling a try to see if it helps with my recurrent sinus problems and gums. I figure it can't do any harm, whereas what the dentist wants to do sounds painful, expensive and harmful!!!

Good luck and keep me posted about whether you try it and what results you get!

amanda

[Abby3]

Just to add to what Amanda said, you have to use extra virgin or cold expeller pressed oils. Do not use just any oil. Also most cites say to do it for 15-20 minutes if you can. I just started again with unrefined sesame oil. This is not just a one time thing although people notice a difference on the first day. I did it for two weeks and started to feel bad and quit. After doing more reading, feeling bad is a sign that the oil is working and getting rid of the problem. I just started again two days ago and this time I will continue through the feeling bad until I feel good again. They say some conditions can take up to a year to cure but for many sinus and tooth problems seem to clear up in a few days. I had a clogged ear too and that is gone.

Best of luck, Abby

[capmikee]

I'm starting to get dubious of this "feeling bad is a sign that it's working" philosophy. I know when you have an addiction, you have to get through withdrawal, but when it takes more than two weeks, I think it's not just withdrawal.

[Abby3]

Capmikee,

You might be right but you'll never know until you try it -- it might just make you feel great (at least your sinuses and gums). It's seems pretty noninvasive to me. It is a detoxing method though and I think I was detoxing too fast for my system. This will effect everyone differently. After more reading, I realized I needed to slow down and not do it everyday. Like with diets, we all have to fine what works for us. Best wishes. :)

[amandawood]

I'm starting to get dubious of this "feeling bad is a sign that it's working" philosophy. I know when you have an addiction, you have to get through withdrawal, but when it takes more than two weeks, I think it's not just withdrawal.

I think I have to agree with Abby here. There is this whole philosophy in Western conventional medicine that any form of "feeling bad" is a bad thing and that any illness should be avoided at all costs. But there does seem to be a body of evidence emerging that if your body is never confronted with infections, if your body's immune system never has to do any "real work", then it turns on itself and auto-immune diseases can raise their ugly head.

I think there may well be something to this "feeling bad is a good sign" philosophy, insofar as the "feeling bad" is an indicator that your body is actually working. Cold symptoms are not caused by the cold virus but by your body's reaction to them.

The problem with the "feeling bad is a good sign" philosophy is that most of us are too out of touch with our bodies to know which kind of "feeling bad" really is a good sign, and which kind of "feeling bad" simply means that what we are doing is not good for us.

The concept of "feeling bad before you get to feel properly better" is quite common in German alternative medicine and I've kind of gotten my head round that one. It goes against the grain of what antibiotics promised us: instant relief from our symptoms. Little did we know that although those antibiotics gave outward relief they were trashing our guts at the same time! In that case, "feeling better" was not really the case after all...

Die-off symptoms in the case of candida are well-documented; induction flu after caffeine and carb withdrawal are also well known on this site. There really is something to this idea, I'm sure of it.

amanda