Switching from Atkins to PP

[Louloo]

:q:I am thinking about switching from Atkins to Protein Power. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I think I might like PP better because of the fruit. Really miss that on Atkins. :confused:

[Kristine]

It wouldn't hurt to try... I think it's a good idea, since it helps in your transition to how you'd eat once you're not trying to lose weight. Sure, go for it! :) If it doesn't work, you can always "tighten the screws" again and go back to Atkins.

[rustpot]

Louloo

There are the same number of carbs in a banana whether you are following Atkins or PP. Don't be fooled into thinking that PP somehow changes the metabolic/insulin science.

The majority of people "tweak" the regime once they understand the underlying principles. But what you cannot do is cherry pick the best bits out of each at the beginning.

For example adding fruit because Protein Power(PP) does not concern to much with Ketosis.... having a reward meal under Carbohydrates Addicts Diet(CAD).. and going for the snacks under The Zone.

My point is..... if you are doing Atkins induction, then complete it first. Then you can work out your protein minimum requirements and look at meal plans under PP but keep the carbs low and do not dramatically increase them all in one go. Otherwise you will undo the kickstart to your programme.

This is a forever way of eating so it is fine to get the right plan..... but for the right reasons.

Good luck

[Louloo]

Thanks for the info. Rustpot, I understand where you are coming from. I guess I am trying to find the best of both worlds. Have not had any problem on Atkins, but am probably looking for something a little different - more choices perhaps. Have been doing induction for 4 weeks and getting a little bored with what I can have. You are right though. I will thing about it for a while longer and plan a bit more. Thanks :agree:

[allen]

HI,
I was on Atkins years ago and again recently for about six weeks. Switched over to Atkins as I wanted more variety in foods; especially vegetables. As stated in a previous post carbs are carbs, but one has to feel good in order to stay on a program. Accept that you will probably lose at a slower rate but be able to eat more of the foods you want and you will do okay. I do feel that this is the way to go; healthier and easier to sustain on the long run.
Allen

[Cheryl R]

hmmmm,
I hope to read some more posts here soon, I too am thinking about switching. I have already decided to go ahead and have 50 gms of carbs a day...but it's been more around 40...except on Sunday because I ate too much at easter dinner. I am trying to get into ketosis again. I haven't been in ketosis since January, I did gain almost 5 pounds back since I got out of ketosis. But, I never did go back to eating sweets, fruits, pasta or rice. I have had potatos a few times and rice once since the end of January.

I've only had about 10 gms of carbs so far today, and I've already had breakfast and lunch. I will have a handfull of cashews or a boiled egg for a snack later .... I'm hoping to see ketosis by Wednesday.

[beccaw]

I just started 4 days ago and picked PP because of the fruit too, altho, as you all said, a banana is a banana......I have a question for you all....when you first starte, were you afraid to eat any carbs? I find myself at the end of the day actually having to eat some carbs because I didn't eat enough! I'm sure that will change, as my cravings come and go.....any ideas there, or has this happened to anybody else? :daze:

[alto]

I'd done Atkins (briefly) several years ago and when I started again I tried Protein Power. I always think of Atkins as a diet, not a WOL -- my problem, not his. Protein Power seems more aimed at finding a way to eat forever that's healthy. I also find the idea of being able to have fruit exhilarating :) A standard snack for me is a very small apple sliced, with peanut butter. Putting raspberries and strawberries in a shake is nice too -- especially in summer.

Becca, I think your question about being afraid to eat carbs is an excellent one. I'm going to post it as another thread so it can have a discussion of its own. I'll bet it's something that a lot of people face.

[Cheryl R]

I've got to go check out this book. I'm not a fruit eater much at all.... but I do like strawberrys and peaches.
Cheryl

[vmoore2]

I lost 20 lbs last summer and gained it back, one of the reasons was staying on induction too long. Up your carbs 5 grams to some strawberries or blueberries and stay on atkins if it is working for you.

[jfo]

I started with Atkins three years ago and lost 25 lbs before I switched to PP. When I started low carbing my goal was to lose weight. Under the Atkins plan, I thought eating food such as sausage, pork roasts, grain feed beef, and soft cheeses were just fine. Shortly after the first year of low-carbing my goal shifted to eating more nutritious and healthful foods. I visited the International Center for Metabolic Medicine two years ago. Dr. Rosedale counseled me in great length on essential oils, milk products, proteins and the role insulin plays in our health and longevity. Now days, the eggs I eat are high in omega 3 oils, I eat more fish, grass feed beef, use lots of olive oil and take supplements including cod liver oil. Here are a few of my experiences.

After a year on the Atkins plan:
I never went into ketosis even when consuming less than 10 carbs a day.
My fasting insulin level was at 18.
My HDL was at 48.
My weight was at a plateau of 230-235.

After switching to Protein Power:
My fasting insulin level dropped to 9 after the first six months (presently ~ 5).
My HDL rose to 62 with out any increase in exercising.
My weight went down another 45 lbs. within the next twelve months (presently stable for a year ~ 185).

Good health, jfo

[allen]

JFO,
You had great results; however it seems to me that the
fabuolus improvement was due not just to the switch from
Atkins to Protein power, but what you consumed. What you are describing you could have consumed on Atkins and maybe your numbers would have been better. With that said, I am a true believer in Protein Power versus Atkins. I just feel that there is
more emphasis on the vegetables. Also the omega 3's and hence one eats more fish. I eat very similar to you and fell pretty
good. If you look back at past posts of mine while doing Atkins I was really suffering. Tired , headaches, probably depression.
Shouldn't have to be. Good luck and stay healthy!
Allen

[sallyd]

I am going to try Protein Power and wondered if anyone could post some of their menus. I have only lost 2# on Atkins so I want to try something else to see if it helps.
sallyd

[Karen]

Hello sallyd!

Here is a list of people who use Protein Power. On click will take you to their journals where you will get an idea of what they eat. Don't be surprised! They are all highly individualized. No one follows it the same way.

You may be doing fine on Atkins. The general rule of thumb is approximately 10% loss during induction, and 5% per week afterwards if all goes well. You may be eating a combination of foods that is not suitable to you, not eating enough, not drinking enough water, have a history of yo-yo dieting...

No matter what plan you're following, it sooner or later has to be tweaked.

razzle (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35549)
Natrushka (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16392)
Doreen T (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11008)
Karen (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4451)

Combination Users

Erin4980 (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34624)
bsayne (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25732)

Former Users

alto (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24697)

Karen

[doreen T]

my 2¢

Protein Power is more than just Atkins + more carbs like fruit or bread.

Atkins is more than just a lower carb version of Protein Power. Many people are mistakenly under the impression that Atkins is 20 grams of carbs forever. It's not ... Induction level is intended for 2 weeks ... 14 days. If people progressed to OWL as they should, potentially the level of carbs can be higher than the 30g per day of Protein Power (or 40g per day PP Lifeplan).

The basic principles of Protein Power, beyond the carb level are: a minimum amount of protein is to be consumed daily ... and a minimum amount of protein is to be consumed at each meal.
planned snacks will contain protein, not just carbs and/or fat
the daily carb allotment is to be evenly distributed among the day's meals and snacks.During the first phase of either PP or PPLP, the maximum carbs per meal or snack is 7 - 10 grams ECC. There's no room for an apple or banana or other high carb fruit. A small apple has 18g effective carbs. A small banana 28g ECC. At transition level, when you're close to maintenance, the carbs are at 12 - 18g ECC per meal. Also, when fruit or other all-carb food is chosen, eg, bread, one must ensure to consume protein along with it.

Atkins really only looks at the overall carb intake for the day. The Eades stress that you cannot "bank" carbs. It doesn't work that way. From the PP FAQ's page (http://eatprotein.com/answers4.html#4f):Do I have to spread my carbohydrates around throughout the day or can I just save them all up and eat them all at once?

You really can’t save them up, unfortunately. Carbohydrates have an expiration date with each meal. There’s a metabolic impact to eating carbohydrates.

If you eat 10 grams of carbohydrate, you’re going to raise your insulin a little bit. If you eat 20 or 30 grams you’re going to raise it more. If you’ve saved up all 40 grams throughout the day and you eat them all at one time, you’re going to have a metabolic impact-your insulin is really going to go up. When that happens, it’s like climbing right back on the insulin roller coaster-up goes the insulin, down goes the blood sugar, and then up goes the hunger and the cravings. You really do yourself more harm than good when you try to save up carbohydrates and use them all at one time.

If you plan to eat a little bit more carbohydrates than normal, the time to do it is in the morning.

Insulin receptors are more effective in the morning than they are later in the day. They actually move sugar out of the blood more quickly with less insulin.Some folks choose to follow the Protein Power principles listed above, but at the lower Atkins Induction level of carbs. But, if what you want is to "do Atkins" but also eat high-carb fruit (or bread or beans or ... whatever) then you should stick to Atkins, follow the guidelines of OWL for gradually upping carbs .. then incorporate the carby food into your daily plan. However, you need to be aware that consuming a larger amount of carbs at once will have consequences on your insulin and blood sugar levels, which could trigger cravings and thwart your fat loss efforts. It's a YMMV thing though .. you need to try it on and see what works for you.

Doreen

[sallyd]

Karen and Doreen,
Thanks so much for replying. I am going to give PP a go to see how it does. I will post my food intake in my journal and let you know how i do.
I just love this forum as it is so nice to see what other people are doing and what works for some but not for others
sallyd

[monika]

hi,
I just need someone's opinion. Maybe Doreen, Karen? You two seem to really know so much!
I've been attempting atkins for a while now because i want to be healthier and lose some weight. I'm more concerned about me not wanting to eating chocolate and donuts than actually having sugar cravings, i think sugar cravings arent such a bad thing as long as one is in control and not using food as a stress relief - but i dont want to feel guilty for having some strawberries, raisins, canteloupe etc- and my favorite is papaya, which i know is high in sugar=)

my 10 lbs of extra weight are due to me abusing food. I dont think i have a problem with insulin or excessive cravings or anything like that - i was just stuffing myself with bad foods because of stress.
my problems with food started when i thought i needed to lose weight so i forced myself to exercise and eat mostly low fat - i still ate regular food occasionally and used olive oil, but i felt guilty when i ate pizza or something. during those times i actually GAINED WEIGHT.
I have learned SO MUCH from all of you, from Protein Power, Atkins, etc. I was a vegetarian for a while and reading more about that school of thought which saw cheese as an occasional snack and butter a no no, etc. Luckily i came across www.beyondveg.com and www.westonaprice.org GREAT WEBSITEs! i think i will post these somewhere else on the site to share.
so i think that protein power would be best for me? im on atkins but its a little too stressful for me. imdoing induction supposedly but eating nuts and maybe more carbs than i should (but i think i lost some weight) - and i am feeling more confident about my food choices (still daydream about a stupid donut every so often but i remind myself of how processed and fooey that is)
So im just looking for some advice? this woe is definitely coming more naturally to me, and i could definitely give up papaya for a while till i lose weight, but i just dont think i need this super strict induction? or maybe i do? any insights?
Sorry if this is sort of choppily written! too many thoughts about this!
thanks

[colinjn]

Hi all,
I've looked at all the plans out there and continually go back to the Atkins plan. Part of it is that it is versatile (four, four, fourplans in one!) and I also realize that it simply works well with my personality.

Barry Sears (The Zone) has said that eventually all the plans are the same. I think that this website is proof of that. Perhaps the differences are in what elements are weighted more in each approach. The start of this thread had to deal with fruit. I guess that if this is a desirable element and not a clandestine sugar addiction then a plan that incorporates more fruit would be preferable. My thing is fat. It satiates and transports flavour! And yes Atkins does talk about limiting fat eventually, and about choosing good fats; but there is no initial guilt trip over using it. I enjoy high fat products and find it an easy way to remedy any dietary slip ups that occur.

However I agree that there is no good to come from cherry picking parts from various diets. And I think that whatever plan you follow should be virtually memorized. I find that many people who follow Atkins only read the Induction Chapter and have no perspective on what lies ahead. I have a hunch this happens with other plans as well.

Hmmm.. this is sounding a bit more preachy than I intended.

[rustpot]

ColinJn


Such a lot of commonsense in your post. A low carb diet ( I use the word diet in its original sense - ones habitual food - and not meaning to lose weight) is not owned by anyone. The underlying chemistry and biological functions of the human being, the nature of insulin and blood sugar balance is not magically altered by switching from one plan to another. The plans do all merge into into one.

[Karen]

Absolutely rust and colin!

Everyone needs a blueprint to start low-carbing. It is an ENORMOUS life change. After the basics are in place - and that is the elimantion of carb-age and understanding why - you start to tailor the plan to your individual needs. What makes you feel good? Raising or lowering fat, carbs or protein. Do dairy products or grains make you feel yucky? Do certain foods make you crave more?

I think all plans should be followed to the letter at first. For both the educational benefits and the feeling of actually sticking to something. That should be everyones first goal. Not fat loss, but learning how to commit to a plan until you make it your own.

I find that many people who follow Atkins only read the Induction Chapter and have no perspective on what lies ahead. I have a hunch this happens with other plans as well.

Yep! Like reading the dirty bits in the Godfather before actually reading the whole book. The initial stage of Atkins or PP is not Atkins or PP!

Karen

[Louloo]

Thanks for all the input. It's really helpfull :wave:

[doingwell]

Hi all, great thread!

I, too, just recently switched from Atkins to PP. Adkins was easy for me to follow but I stayed in a stall for months and no matter how I tweaked my menus NOTHING happened. My weight never budged....at least it didn't go up! So, I decided to try PP and guess what? I broke my stall!! I lost 2 lbs this week and love that I can have 1/2 a grapefruit in the morning. I missed my fruit! For a snack, if I need one, I'll have 1/2 cup of cottage cheese with blueberries. Very satisfying. I also love peanut butter on celery.

After reading several posts I have come to the conclusion that Adkins is an ideal way to get started LCing but adjustments must be made, a stall is inevitable. PP seems more of a WOE that we can all do. It is also true that once you understand the whole process of LCing the better equipped you are to make the right choices for your body. I still can't believe how great I feel, I don't miss bread, pasta or sugar!

Take care and take care of yourselves!!

:Party:

[Rob]

What I like about PP

is that it gives you definite guidelines about how much you should be eating in terms of minimal amounts of protein ,fat and carbs.

I didnt realise that I was overeating on Atkins and hit a stall soon after I began induction when I lost 3 and 1/2 lbs . No movement subsequently .

I was ladelling the fats and the protein by the spoonful . He says they are "free foods" but I have come to the opinion that nothing is free if you want to loose weight .

Its free if there is no pressure to loose , and some people dont mind taking their time . I personally would be disappointed if I didnt loose at least 1 lb per week and on Atkins I was'nt loosing this amount .

I agree that Atkins is a good starting point . Just a pity that I misread what "Free Food " meant .


Rob :wave:

[colinjn]

Yes your experience seems to be a common one here. There is so much information packed in Dr. Atkin's books that people miss the finer points.

The high fat ratio is used to allow easy access to ketosis, which is one of the cornerstones of the diet. HOWEVER in finer print ( and an often overlooked paragraph) Dr. Atkins deals with quantities. His approach is more intuitive than restrictive. He wants you to eat only to the point of the first signs of satiety. This is another very important cornerstone to long term success on any program.

You have to learn to listen and trust yourself. These lessons start very early in Dr. Atkin's program and perhaps a bit too early for some. Perhaps because of his own personality, Dr. Atkins avoids regimentation. This is ironic since he is most often criticized by the ignorant as being too regimented!

Good luck
Colin

[Rob]

Hey Colin ,

I dont know about you , but I thrive on regimens . I wish DANDR would have layed down the rules but it didnt .

My brain doesnt tell me when I'm satisfied , thats why I'm f.a.t !!

:D

So I cant rely on feelings of satiety. I now know from PP that with 20g protein per meal , and some carbs and a blob of fat ,that I will be satisfied . I may have never discovered that on Atkins .

Anyhow I am very pleased with PP . Too much protein as well as fat can disrupt your weight loss as I'm sure you have found out yourself.


good luck with your program

Rob :wave:

[colinjn]

Yup too much protein and fat will put the breaks on for sure!

I'm glad you found a regimen that works for you.

That's what I like about this site. We can all fine tune things to meet our own needs and still have the support of kindred spirits.

Colin