Anyone able to get off insulin?

[codergal]

I was just wondering what different experiences were as far as being able to come off your diabetic meds (oral) or injection. I currently take Humulin 70/30 and Lantus at night. Of course, taking these does not help with weight loss but I plan to continue on the low carb course but would like to hear some encouraging stories from diabetics who came off meds.

[RobLL]

Many of us think this is the wrong question. Whether or not we take meds is not near so important as the BG lowering results we get. Regarding weight loss, those of us who take insulin need to really keep carbs down, or weight goes up. And of course less carbs also means less insulin. Some have found different insulins more likely to help with weight loss.

[NorthPeace]

I know a fellow who had T2D for ages who was able to cut his insulin dramatically by making dietary changes. His doctor was in charge of the menu, and one day at breakfast I heard him tell the guy to cut his insulin in half on his night time dose. I talked to the patient the next morning, and his blood sugar was low, so the next day the doctor cut the dose again. So in the end he adjusted to about 1/4 or 1/3 of his original amount.

[Cajunboy47]

I was able to get off of oral medications, but as Rob said; the point is to control blood glucose first.... so, we do what we must do....

But, in eliminating oral medication (glipizide), I did replace it by taking herbal medicines, so, I still must take something. I control my blood glucose better now and my diet is not as restricted as it was on oral medications.

But, if the truth be known..... For me, weight loss and exercise have done more than any medication or supplement.

Also, the things we do don't guarantee any specific result and diabetes is a progressive disease and we're probably at best only able to slow the progress down through our own efforts.

[picaboo]

I dont have to tell you how different we are all with this diabetes2.It is also depend in what stage you are.
For me :
As Cajun said the key is "weight loss and exercises!!!!!!!!!! "...no magic in this department !!! (wish it was)......and I choose to go LC and with my Dr. advice Im checking my BS every time before meals.
So for now (and let it be that way for ever...please, please):-))))))))))...
Im free from:
30 units Lantus "Solo Star"
500mg Metformin and 100mg Januvia.
(I hate meds)!!!!!!!!!!

[januaria]

I was just wondering what different experiences were as far as being able to come off your diabetic meds (oral) or injection. I currently take Humulin 70/30 and Lantus at night. Of course, taking these does not help with weight loss but I plan to continue on the low carb course but would like to hear some encouraging stories from diabetics who came off meds.

I have managed to drastically cut my insulin use down with diet, exercise and treating my depression - until I did this, no matter what I did, my values remained high. I had no idea how drastically stress affected glucose levels.

I was on 30 units of basal night and morning and up to 8 units of rapid with meals at my worst; I started out with less, but had to add more and more because I rapidly gained weight (I stated on NPH and then switched to weight-neutral levemir with bolus).

Before diagnosis, I had been at weight watchers and was losing about a pound a week. I lost 30 pounds on my own over four months. I was also walking every day. When I added insulin to the mix, I stopped losing almost immediately - then started gaining slowly. I was terribly discouraged and quit going. Slowly, I became very depressed and myglucose values soared - and so did my insulin requirements. I was also on prednisone which also raised my BG (actually, it contributed to the cause of the diabetes if not actually causing it on its own). Not only was I gaining weight and needing more insulin, I was not controlled and my fasting values were high. Frantic, I demanded metformin to add to the mix and was grudgingly prescribed it. It helped enormously, but by that time I was more depressed and no matter how much insulin I took, my values remained high.

Because I was depressed, I started eating carbs - and then eventually damaging junk carbs - chocolate and too much pasta. I quit posting on this board - which was the worst thing I could have done since I am sure others have had glucose values affected by depression and could have helped me - but I did not know this was the problem so didn't know what to ask.

I became uncontrollably angry in early November and began flying into rages. I had stopped taking the prednisone but it did not have the positive result I had hoped for. I felt trapped on the insulin treadmill - needing more all the time and it not working, and reported my depression to my endo - who just looked at me and said nothing. My husband called my family doc in November because he was worried (I had already told the doc - who also had said nothing), and asked the doc to listen to me. He prescribed wellbutrin. I hated the side effects which made everything worse at first, especially anxiety, but the ragee was banished from the very first pill.

To make a long story short, a month to the day later, my blood values plummeted. The next day I went out and re-joined weight watcher (CORE) abnd curves, doing a lower carb version of their diet.

When I added exercise to the mix, my BG plummeted further. I had been unable to control my glucose for two years. I got a fairly good A1c the last few times because although I had high fasting values and pre and post meal values, I was dipping very low during the night.

The other day the doc called me worried that my fasting level was a bit low at 4.7 (Canadian). My a1C was 5.2 I am now taking 13 units of basal night and morning and NO rapid with meals. I don't need it at all.

It is very hard to lose weight while on insulin whioch is one reason I am weaning off of it. Only treating the underlying depression and eating a lower carb diet and exercising 30 minutes a day or more helped me. I had read a book on how an engineer actually 'cured' himself of diabetes and no longer takes insulin or oral drugs and has been normal for years. I want this for myself.

I am losing very, very slowly at weight watchers, but at least it in the right direction. As I decrease the insulin, perhaps the added weight loss will decrease my insulin need further.

Other diabetics seem to do well on Byetta, which I cannot take due to liver issues, but if you can, and are T2, it might be worth investigating.


This is my story, of course, and yours may be very different. I just thought I would share it with you in case it might help.

[januaria]

One more thing: I found exercise, in my case, to be a very powerful agent to clear glucose, and even better than metformin.

I didn't want to do it of course, since I was depressed - but once I did, the results have been phenomenal (I do both aerobic and resistance). I may not have developed diabetes in the first place had I not led a very sedentary life foe the last twenty years.

[soapluvr]

Also, the things we do don't guarantee any specific result and diabetes is a progressive disease and we're probably at best only able to slow the progress down through our own efforts.

If this is true then is there any point in eating lowcarb if we are going to get it anyway? I guess like you said we can avoid some of the nasty side affects of diabetes for as long as we can by eating lowcarb but if diet and exercise isn't going to control it forever then I can see why a lot of people give up.

[RobLL]

If this is true then is there any point in eating lowcarb if we are going to get it anyway? I guess like you said we can avoid some of the nasty side affects of diabetes for as long as we can by eating lowcarb but if diet and exercise isn't going to control it forever then I can see why a lot of people give up.

Benefits of low carb/low insulin levels/approaching truly normal BGs

You won't gain weight
You will keep your toesies and feet
You will keep your eyesight
You will keep your own kidneys
You likely will feel a whole heck of a lot better

You likely, but not necessarily, will become more dependent upon insulin as the years go by.

It is not impossible that a medical cure/treatment could negate that last sentence.

In any event, Merry Christmas

[glennette]

Hi Codergal,

I've taken my A1c from 10 to 5.7 without ever taking medication or exercising. It did take 2 years to get it into the 5's but my biggest drop was the first 3 months where it dropped by 3.6 %.

Now my husband was dx'ed recently with an A1c of 6.1 and has taken his fasting readings from the hundred teens to 83 to 97 with his average being 90. He'll be won't be getting his A1c recheck until Jan. 13 but I feel sure that he will be in the low 5's

Everyone IS different but I want you to know that low carb alone does work for some of us. How long I don't know as I've only been at it for 2 1/2 years.

Best of luck to you,
Glennette

[National G]

In just one week on low carbing I have gone off my Humalog completely. I have lowered my 70/30 2U in the am and 2U in the pm. I am on my orals still, but hopefully I can reduce more as I loose more. I lost 5 pounds my first week. At one time, quite a few years back I lost 40 pounds and was able to go off my insulin. But, I stopped watching what I ate, and the weight went right back on and so did the insulin. I'll see what happens this time.

[eddiemcm]

Some Type 2's can go off insulin in favor of low carb and
herbal/prescription pills.Low carb by itself works for some 2's.
I doubt if any true type 1's can do that.
Even for the type 1,carb restriction will probably lessen the
amount of insulin required.
Eddie

[dancinbr]

Wow a great thread.

As many of you know I am T2 diabetic.

I started insulin along with low carb about a year ago.

Well, some weight has crept back on.

It is NOT the insulin that did it. It is behavorial. I knew I could now have more carbs since I use a fast bolus Novolog.

I am also using 40 units day and night of basil levemir.

I also know that staying low carb and exercising also helps control BG .

The real good news for me is my last A1C was 5.2.

The bad news is I have to get the weight off.

I just recently gone for a cardiac catscan. This discovered a few things.

I have gallstones. I also have 20-40% blockage in two of my arteries and 40-60% blockage in one of them; all near the heart of course.

I am taking a Advanced Artery Solution that has been reported to reduce these blockages. I have been taking it now for about 6 months. Now, that I have a baseline cardiac we will see how good this Artery Solution works. I plan to have another cardiac catscan in about a year.

In the meantime, I have some of the best Doctors around now watching my heart, eyes, etc all doing OK so far.

I have decided to go for a Lap Band and I expect this tool to help me greatly in altering my intake habits and then get back to lower carbs and more exercise.

So, I also expect that doing so will reduce my need for insulin. The weight comes off, the exercise increases, I feel better and then I live.

Ralph

[Nancy LC]

Ralph, you might want to check into the Heart Scan Doctor's blog.
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com

There's a for fee support group at http://trackyourplaque.com
I think the fees just cover their costs.

[Ptrcmcc6]

I'm thinking it would probably depend on what type of diabetic you are. My b/f is T1 and although lc will probably allow him to inject less insulin and keep his BS readings more stable, he will never be able to come off of it because his body doesn't produce/or produces too litte of it for him not to take it.

[mainecyn]

I started atkins in Nov. after my dr informed me that I was going to go on meds for type 2. I was also feeling miserable and scared because I knew something was wrong. I just couldn't control my sugar levels. I lots 20lbs, and during a month of constant testing with my meter, my blood sugar levels are always on target and almost perfect. I went back to see him and he was pleased and held off medication. I go back next week to see how I am doing and was told if I continue to make or keep this progress and way of eating I can hold off meds.

Type 1 I don't think, low carb, would ever get you off insulin. My mother has taken insulin for what seems like forever and watching carb intake has cut hers in half..

[soapluvr]

mainecyn sounds like you've made good progress. Keep it up! Did you tell the doc you were on Atkins?

[dancinbr]

Ralph, you might want to check into the Heart Scan Doctor's blog.
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com

There's a for fee support group at http://trackyourplaque.com
I think the fees just cover their costs.


Great blog Nancy.

I have been very reluctant to going on statins.

But right now I am adding them to the mix.

As to the other points made, I am going to have my LDL tested to see if it is made up of the harmful particles or just the harmless large fluffy ones. I have been discussing this with my Doctor quite a bit. My prior cholesterol test gave me 134 with an HDL of 55 and therefore a calculated LSL of around 80.

Secondly, Dr. Mercola site had an excellent video on vitamin D3 deficiency and I suspect like many I was deficient. Well prior to my blood test I started taking 4000 iu of D3 for about 3 weeks or so. I continue to take these supplements. My D3 score came out 34; just above minimal. The optimal range is above 50 like 50-75 range. So I am hoping to continue to raise that.

I don't use sunscreen and I do get out into the sun, but I am not a sun bather; so prudent exposure to the sun like 1/2 hour to 1 hour a day should bring all the serum D3 up to optimal level during the summer; we will see.

I will look back at thyroid.

my Tsh is 1.54 so that is good.

I take Krill Oil supplement every day thanks to Dr. Mercola and I don't believe in the American Heart Association diet. I have always been a meat eater and therefore my consumption of fats have been higher. Now, on low carb (well less than 100 grams a day) my diet tends to be higher in protein and fat than carbs.

I also take niacin to help with HDL, but my HDL is already over 55 approaches 60 at times especially if I get my exercising routine kicked up a bit.

But I will take a look a early morning oral temperature as another check.

Thanks,

Ralph

[Nancy LC]

Don't get the wrong sort of niacin, you need to use the kind that makes you flush. The other sort is worthless. Also, niacin will reduce your LDL too.

[eddiemcm]

"Don't get the wrong sort of niacin, you need to use the kind that makes you flush. The other sort is worthless. Also, niacin will reduce your LDL too."
That's my experience with Niacin also.I take 1000 mg after
breakfast.I like the flush-sort of like an orgasm in the face.
It feels SOOOOOOOOOOOO good.
<chuckle>
Eddie

[dancinbr]

Nancy and Ed,

I get the right kind of niacin.

I have had some pretty good flushes with it.

I do take 1000mg a day.

I also take two baby aspirin with it, which counteract the flush.

Once you get "used" to it there are less times when you do get the flush.

However, I am going to look into the HeartScan site more Nancy.

Lots of interesting stuff there.

Thanks,

Ralph

[eddiemcm]

Niacin has increased my HDL from 40 to 65.
I don't think it's had much effect on LDL or triglycerides
but they're okay.My last measured total cholesterol was
161.I don't remember the exact breakdown of LDL and triglycerides but they were good-both in 80's(maybe).
Cheers/low BG's
Eddie

[Nancy LC]

Hah! Eddie, that's funny. I never liked the feeling personally... of the flush, the other thing I'm onboard with!

Ralph, the thing you might want to search for is "VAP" and "NMR". Those are much more appropriate ways to test your cholesterol. See, the standard cholesterol test just does a calculation to derive LDL cholesterol and it doesn't tell you whether those LDL are big and harmless or small and harmful. It's also a very inaccurate test too. If you have low triglycerides your LDL is likely to be calculated too high. If you have high triglycerides, it will likely under calculate your LDL. That's why it hasn't ever been a very good indicator of who is going to drop dead of a heart attack.

So read up, put VAP and NMR in the search box (upper left side) of Dr. Davis's blog. You might also want to put in Wheat, D3, thyroid and anything else that strikes your fancy.

[januaria]

so...what's the 'right' kind of niacin? I am considering taking it for my heart?

[eddiemcm]

januaria
The right kind of Niacin is regular Niacin-not extended release or
noflush Niacin.It's better to take Niacin right before or right after
eating.a 500 mg pill with breakfast and the same with dinner is a
good way to start.You will probably feel a flush/heating in your
face.That is because the arteries expand. Do a blood test to
check your liver and repeat every few months while you are taking Niacin.
Cheers
Eddie

[Nancy LC]

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/search?q=niacin+flush

[dancinbr]

Hello Nancy and Ed,

I am aware about the whole controversy about cholesterol and it not being the end all answer to heart disease. I am going to have my LDL tested as well. The point is I do have build up in my arteries that needs to be watched.

I am now seeing one of New York's best cardiologist at St Francis Hospital; this is a heart hospital. What he point out to me about statins is they understand that it goes beyond just controlling cholesterol. There is a statistical significance for patients on statins faring better with heart disease than those not on statins. He goes on to point out to me with my obesity issue that I have a lot of fats floating around in my blood and therefore they may very well be contributing my artery blockage. He also recognizes that there is something going on with statins that goes beyond just control of cholesterol.

I am also taking niacin the full flush variety and I have to repeat what I have mentioned here before; two baby aspirin help eliminate/reduce the flush experience. It is quite a rush as Eddie has indicated.

The Doctor also encourages my decision to go for Bariatric Lap Band surgery and the strict medical diet that follows with it to get the weight off quickly. I have tried on my own but don't have whatever it takes to get the weight down. I can do 10 or 20 pounds but then that is that. So, this is a new tool for me to get the weight down and then continue to use it to keep the weight down.

Also, I am taking an Advanced Artery Solution that has EDTA and many minerals and vitamins that Dr. Cutler promotes on the web with apparently good results. They are telling me that my next annual cardiac catscan should show an improvement.

See this URL http://www.truehealth.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=TAASC&CAT=

I also take all kinds of additional vitamins and minerals along with 3 blood pressure meds, krill oil for omega 3 and on and on.

In a word too much medication. I also have sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine. I am pretty much slowly killing myself by being obese; not to mention two years now T2 diabetes, which the Doctor believes I can reverse (bring under good control) with the weight loss and the Bariatric surgeon confirms this as well

So I have a plan. I am in process.

I thank you for all the support.

I will probably join the heartscan site that Nancy has referenced since there will be future caridac catscans.

Thanks,

Ralph

[RobLL]

Ralph - good luck with all of that, the one friend I have (that I know about) who had the surgery is quite happy about it, and it has been effective. Rob

[Nancy LC]

Ralph, I wish you all the best on your journey. I really think Dr. Davis has had some stunning results from his program, I hope things work as well for you!

[januaria]

Hi Ralph,

Thank you for the info on statins. My doc has been recommending them for several months, but I have held off, trying to lower the cholesterol myself with diet.

April.

[Vivid Lily]

Hi. I haven't been around for a long time. I've been trying different things. Raw food diet. Have any of you watched the movie. 'Simply Raw'Reversing Diabetes in 30 day. Just to mention there is a Type 1 that actually reverses Diabetes through Raw Food. The movie is by Gabriel Cousens.I've gone from 18-20 Units of Lantus & approx 20 u. of Novo Rapid daily. to taking a metformin 2x day. and no insulin. and raw food diet. I've also started to rebound-started 5 min.a day . Now I rebound at least 45 min. daily. with ease. I was taking insulin for over 10 years.Doctors weren't helping except for to give me more meds. I found a site called The Raw Divas and did a Detox.that got me started. now I go to raw food classes. ttyl. Suzy

[dancinbr]

Ralph - good luck with all of that, the one friend I have (that I know about) who had the surgery is quite happy about it, and it has been effective. Rob

Thank you Robl

[dancinbr]

Ralph, I wish you all the best on your journey. I really think Dr. Davis has had some stunning results from his program, I hope things work as well for you!

Nancy -

Thank you.

I am definitely going to follow up in great detail with Dr. Davis's program.

Thank you for pointing me in that direction

The current Niacin that I take is nicotinic acid made by Sundown.

I will read up more on Slo-niacin in the heartscan blog.

There are many things to learn there.

Like Dr. Mercola, Dr. Davis recommends getting away from processed foods especially breads. Just picked up that snippet as I took a quick scan of his site.

Now for more in depth learning studying and becoming a member of his community. I think it is terrific that there is a resource out there that works with cardiac catscans and learning from them as well.

Thanks,

Ralph

[januaria]

januaria
The right kind of Niacin is regular Niacin-not extended release or
noflush Niacin.It's better to take Niacin right before or right after
eating.a 500 mg pill with breakfast and the same with dinner is a
good way to start.You will probably feel a flush/heating in your
face.That is because the arteries expand. Do a blood test to
check your liver and repeat every few months while you are taking Niacin.
Cheers
Eddie


Thanks, Eddie - the flush can't be any worse than hot flashes :)

I have had a liver transplant and still have some liver damage, and am wondering, since you mentioned a liver check, if niacin can add to the problem?

April.

[Adorablema]

Could you elaborate on what the proper type of niacin is? Inspite of low carbing pretty hard my ldl has been up and the doc is pushing statins. I realize that there are other ways to bring it down so I am resisting.

Don't get the wrong sort of niacin, you need to use the kind that makes you flush. The other sort is worthless. Also, niacin will reduce your LDL too.

[Nancy LC]

Could you elaborate on what the proper type of niacin is? Inspite of low carbing pretty hard my ldl has been up and the doc is pushing statins. I realize that there are other ways to bring it down so I am resisting.
Read what Dr. Davis says on the subject: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/search?q=niacin

[dancinbr]

Well thank you Nancy.

I have become a member of Track your Plaque.

I have lots of reading to do and refining what I do.

However, I already feel good that I have done some things right such as Krill Oil for pur Omega 3, Niacin the Nicotinic Acid variety at 1000mg daily and I started to take Vitamin D3 this past two months and went for a serum test that came out 34 after having taken Vitamin D3 at 4000 iu per day for a couple of weeks prior to the test. Need to get this up over 50.

Yes, I am taking the statin too now. so be it for now.

Lots to learn.

The Lap Band surgery and weight loss should really help me considerably.

Thank you for putting me on to this program.

Ralph

[Nancy LC]

Good stuff, Ralph! Are you going to get a VAP or NMR test done to see how your particles are? I had it done during a time I was cheating something awful and I still had a pretty good score for particle size. I'd love to get it redone now that I've been a good girl for nearly a year.

If you're really serious about this you might want to check out his diet recommendations too. His biggest admonition is no wheat, no cornstarch as he says they cause you to create small LDL particles. I think eventually he's probably going to realize that all grains do that, but for now those are his two big no-nos.

[dancinbr]

Good stuff, Ralph! Are you going to get a VAP or NMR test done to see how your particles are? I had it done during a time I was cheating something awful and I still had a pretty good score for particle size. I'd love to get it redone now that I've been a good girl for nearly a year.

If you're really serious about this you might want to check out his diet recommendations too. His biggest admonition is no wheat, no cornstarch as he says they cause you to create small LDL particles. I think eventually he's probably going to realize that all grains do that, but for now those are his two big no-nos.

Yes, I will go for the small particle LDL test. I have discussed this with my Doctor and he has no issue doing the test. What is important is what the cardiac catscan has shown and learning about the techniques Dr. Davis recommends and reading up on success stories etc in his blog and his forums that he hosts. Not sure of the difference between VAP and NMR but I will learn.

Also, I read up on the no wheat and cornstarch. This is very similar to Dr. Mercola's Total Health approach. Dr. Mercola doesn't want any grains, no processed foods, all natural lean meats, etc.

The trick is going to be implementing this. I believe cutting down on carbs to below 100 has helped and getting it down to the 30-60 really accomplishes a lot.

I am interested in getting my life back in order and enjoying another healthy couple of decades or more.

Ralph

[Nancy LC]

Also, for anyone else curious about those tests, you can order and pay for them yourself if your doctor won't. I'm trying to remember which test I did... I think it was NMR. I can find a link if anyone is interested. It cost about $100 a few years ago. They send you the results.

[lisa53098]

Codergal, do you know your HgbA1c? I would think that after a while you will be able to reduce your insulin and oral meds.

[dancinbr]

Also, for anyone else curious about those tests, you can order and pay for them yourself if your doctor won't. I'm trying to remember which test I did... I think it was NMR. I can find a link if anyone is interested. It cost about $100 a few years ago. They send you the results.

Do find the link for me Nancy.

However, crazy as it sounds in New York, USA for whatever reasons there is a law that does not permit mailing to/from your home various blood tests.

There is always a way around it.

I can go and have my son or a friend mail it from their home out of state.

I believe my Doctor will have no issue ordering the tests.

Ralph

[Nancy LC]

Here it is, the price has tripled though!
http://www.labsafe.com/lab-tests/landing.aspx?id=532&panelid=0&testname=&panelname=

I had to ask these guys to get them to send me the results. I guess their default method is to just phone them to you.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLC804500/VAP-Blood-Test.html
Lef.org has the VAP blood test, which is a little cheaper, especially if you're a member. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is, but I bet Dr. Davis has info about that.

[v-effect]

Hi. I haven't been around for a long time. I've been trying different things. Raw food diet. Have any of you watched the movie. 'Simply Raw'Reversing Diabetes in 30 day. Just to mention there is a Type 1 that actually reverses Diabetes through Raw Food. The movie is by Gabriel Cousens.I've gone from 18-20 Units of Lantus & approx 20 u. of Novo Rapid daily. to taking a metformin 2x day. and no insulin. and raw food diet. I've also started to rebound-started 5 min.a day . Now I rebound at least 45 min. daily. with ease. I was taking insulin for over 10 years.Doctors weren't helping except for to give me more meds. I found a site called The Raw Divas and did a Detox.that got me started. now I go to raw food classes. ttyl. Suzy

Sometimes I feel like a broken record! You cannot reverse Type 1 with diet and/ or exercise. It is medically impossible. You can significantly lower your insulin requirements, but you cannot reverse it. Insulin is required for metabolic (read non-food related) function. Even if I were to fast all day, I would still need insulin. Could you point us to the evidence that this Type 1 actually reversed their disease with raw food?

V.

[Vivid Lily]

V-effect. I can understand how you feel this way! But I've been going to a Diabetic Clinic here in town where I live for many, many years they really haven't helped me. I record what I eat , then we go over it . they always tell me I don't enough from all the food groups. I tell them over and over again 'I can't eat grains, meat, dairy. I feel terrible and my sugars go way up. So I stopped going for awhile. Got in contact with 'The Raw Divas' they helped me alot. But my biggest help was from a movie I got from Dr. Gabriel Cousens called Simply Raw -Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days. For me it didn't take more than a week and I was off insulin. I got the dvd along with 'The Ultimate Encyclopedia of the Raw Food Lifetyle. by David Wolfe. thru the internet. Yes I am type 2 Diabetic, it still takes alot of hard work. Anyway - With my progress I decided to go see the Diabetic Clinic. The nurse that I always see, is a type 1 herself. on insulin for over 30 years. I told her my story and she was shocked but she wanted to know everything. To make a long story short she is having a hard time changing but she is hardly taking any insulin and hopes to be off it herself soon. In the Dvd the one gentlemen that gets off insulin (type 1) is so impressed that he changes his path in life and starts to work at sharing this possibility with others. Any more questions , just holler. I've been told for years that it isn't possible and I believe I would be dead if I hadn't found my own path. Even now my doctor says 'Well let's see how long it lasts' instead of congratulating me. ttyl. Suzy :wave:

[v-effect]

V-effect. I can understand how you feel this way! But I've been going to a Diabetic Clinic here in town where I live for many, many years they really haven't helped me. I record what I eat , then we go over it . they always tell me I don't enough from all the food groups. I tell them over and over again 'I can't eat grains, meat, dairy. I feel terrible and my sugars go way up. So I stopped going for awhile. Got in contact with 'The Raw Divas' they helped me alot. But my biggest help was from a movie I got from Dr. Gabriel Cousens called Simply Raw -Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days. For me it didn't take more than a week and I was off insulin. I got the dvd along with 'The Ultimate Encyclopedia of the Raw Food Lifetyle. by David Wolfe. thru the internet. Yes I am type 2 Diabetic, it still takes alot of hard work. Anyway - With my progress I decided to go see the Diabetic Clinic. The nurse that I always see, is a type 1 herself. on insulin for over 30 years. I told her my story and she was shocked but she wanted to know everything. To make a long story short she is having a hard time changing but she is hardly taking any insulin and hopes to be off it herself soon. In the Dvd the one gentlemen that gets off insulin (type 1) is so impressed that he changes his path in life and starts to work at sharing this possibility with others. Any more questions , just holler. I've been told for years that it isn't possible and I believe I would be dead if I hadn't found my own path. Even now my doctor says 'Well let's see how long it lasts' instead of congratulating me. ttyl. Suzy :wave:

Congrats on your success! I am Type 1 and low carbing has helped me to reduce my insulin requirements, too. I'm sorry to report that your DVD is wrong, however, about Type 1's "getting off insulin." And the nurse you spoke to will *die* without basal insulin. Type 1s need basal, or background, insulin, AND bolus, or food based insulin. No matter what you do foodwise you will still need that basal. I manage that basal, and the small amount I take for low carb foods with an insulin pump quite nicely. I find it frightening that any program would suggest a Type 1 could go off insulin entirely. It would mean certain death.

[Nancy LC]

Maybe they were wrong about what form their diabetes was? Perhaps they assume that anyone using insulin is a type 1, I think I was under that assumption for awhile.

[januaria]

Vivid Lily,

Do you have a link for the Raw Food Divas? I did try the raw paleo for a while, but eating raw meat made me nauseous - maybe there is a way around this or some way to get used to it slowly.

Some foods are better cooked, such as tomatoes, but I think a mostly raw diet is a great thing - all those available enzymes and vitamins.

April.

[Vivid Lily]

Hi April. 'The Raw Divas.com' right now they have a free 90 Day Detox. you can also do the 7 day detox. it's free too. Also Health in High Heels. . Good Luck. ttyl. Suzy. By the way I'm Vivid Lily there too! Look me up :wave:

[Ptrcmcc6]

Congrats on your success! I am Type 1 and low carbing has helped me to reduce my insulin requirements, too. I'm sorry to report that your DVD is wrong, however, about Type 1's "getting off insulin." And the nurse you spoke to will *die* without basal insulin. Type 1s need basal, or background, insulin, AND bolus, or food based insulin. No matter what you do foodwise you will still need that basal. I manage that basal, and the small amount I take for low carb foods with an insulin pump quite nicely. I find it frightening that any program would suggest a Type 1 could go off insulin entirely. It would mean certain death.

I have to agree with v-effect here. My b/f is T1 and has been since he is 4 years old. There is no way he could ever go off his insulin because his pancreas doesn't produce insulin anymore (or, very very little if it does). Even if he decided to eat 0 carbs/starches/sugars and only eat protein and veggies for the rest of his life.....he would still need his basal insulin to counter-act the breakdown of his foods turning to glucose in his body (protein, included).

I do, however, believe T2's can reverse or become non-insulin dependent through diet/exercise though.

[National G]

Your correct. I don't believe type one can ever get off insulin.
I am type two, and after years of being dibetic my Dr. wanted me on insulin besides orals. I wish I would never done it. Once a few years ago when I low carbed I got off of it. My readings were not as low and he wanted and zip he put me right back on it. I am into my low carb died 4 weeks now, and I am not needing any fast acting, and my 70/30 is down to half dosage. It is plain the Dr. who hated low-carbing...now I know why. He wanted to see me every three months!! No more!!!

[Ptrcmcc6]

I'm glad to hear lc is working for you.... :thup: . I try to tell my b/f even though he will never not be able to go without insulin, he could probably lower his dosage if he followed a lc way of eating. He's slowly coming around...... :).

I guess it's not that easy to get 40 + years of the ADA telling him what he should/shouldn't eat out of his system.

[dancinbr]

I'm glad to hear lc is working for you.... :thup: . I try to tell my b/f even though he will never not be able to go without insulin, he could probably lower his dosage if he followed a lc way of eating. He's slowly coming around...... :).

I guess it's not that easy to get 40 + years of the ADA telling him what he should/shouldn't eat out of his system.

You are so right.

However, even the ADA is starting to come around.

I have noticed articles now and then among the traditional diabetes world that are speaking constructively about low carb approaches and that they work.

[Vivid Lily]

About insulin with Type 1 or 2 - Have you been to the site. Dr. Robert Young with the pH Miracle? Alkaline /Acidic Diet. Please watch the video. That's all I'm going to say. Bye for now. Suzy :wave:

[v-effect]

I'm not sure what the stakes are in claiming that a Type 1 (where an autoimmune response has destroyed the beta cells) can go off insulin entirely. It is not true, and it is not, at present, possible. Anyone arguing to the contrary is trying to sell something. Please stop spreading misinformation.
Anyway, I thought this forum was about Dr. Bernstein.

V.

[eddiemcm]

"Anyway, I thought this forum was about Dr. Bernstein. "
Hopefully this forum is about all issues pertaining to diabetes.
If it was only about Bernstein,I would have left a long time ago.
I agree that it's irresponsible/crazy to say that a true type 1 diabetic can live without insulin.
And so it goes
Eddie

[dancinbr]

It comes down to the best hope for anyone getting off insulin is a T2 in their early years, such as myself and that I finally gain the discipline to manage my weight, which I believe is the culprit of many of my maladies.

I started insulin very quickly to preserve what I have left in terms of a functional pancreas.

I am giving it a rest. Hopefully, as I finally get my act together and get my weight down, I will get off of insulin and/or dramatically reduce my needs and live a healthier and happier life.

Right now, I am in the midst of "going for a Lap Band". I have attended my first support group and quite frankly I came back a bit discouraged. No matter what, one must commit to a lifestyle change to gain completed control of your weight and eliminate all the negative factors that being obese has caused; I have caused.

I even listened to people who essentially defeated the gastric bypass simply because they refused to change their lifestyle and now were back for a "revision procedure" and lap band. I also saw many successes.

So, I continue my journey for longer life; afterall that is what we are talking about here, be it based on Dr. Bernstein or others we are here trying to extend life and live it to its fullest.

I also believe science will someday come up with a way to restore pancreatic function whether it be from stem cell research or what. There are research projects underway with this in mind. I am speaking not from any direct knowledge but I do pick up snippets now and then that something is going on in this area. So I am hopeful.

But again, it gets back to the awful lifestyle that I have chosen and perhaps others have chosen that have led to high blood pressure, sleep apnea and finally T2 diabetes along with a bit of heart disease. We get what we soe. Is that the way you spell soe???

Now, I also know there are many that are diabetic here for other reasons other than too much weight so there are other populations besides the obese. So many of you have followed a good lifestyle, diet, etc., but are still victims of this disease.

Best wishes,

Ralph

[januaria]

"Anyway, I thought this forum was about Dr. Bernstein. "
Hopefully this forum is about all issues pertaining to diabetes.
If it was only about Bernstein,I would have left a long time ago.
....
Eddie

Me too - I keep coming back here all the time. I have tried different food plans, including Dr. Bernstein, but I am still experimenting and hoping for settling into one I can fully live with long term. Does that mean I ought not to visit and post on this forum? I certainly hope not. I have gotten such terrific help and infornmation from the people here that it has allowed me to keep my A1C at a non-diabetic level. There are such terrifically well-informed people on this diabetes forum that I encourage everyone I know with diabetes to join just for this.

Vivid Lily is walking her own path as well, and been very successful. I, for one, greatly value her input, and she has been instrumental in my being able to reduce my insulin and metformin. We don't have to follow every link posted, take all advice offered, or believe everything that is said in the forum, but we can keep an open mind and check up on any information offered.

[Vivid Lily]

Thank you januaria!!! That's all I'm doing, trying to help. You know I've found something that's working for me. And I just hoped it would help others too!!! I was at a funeral last night the lady was diabetic with a lung disease. I tried to get her to try eating low carb, but she listened to her doctor. They had her eating wayyyyy too many carbs and had to take lots of insulin along with her prednisone for lungs. She was only 74 years old. Can you tell me why then have some Type 1 -gotten off insulin. Dr. Young said you have to get it in time while you are still producing even a little bit of insulin yourself. I didn't even know there was such a test. While I was still taking insulin I found out about this test and had it done. And yes I was still producing insulin, so this new doctor I have said yes we will be able to get you off insulin. I know some Type 1's still produce insulin. Isn't it worth a try? Just because I care. Suzy :wave:

[Nancy LC]

First of all, I'm not a raw-fooder. I don't believe in magical enzymes. However...

Type 1 is an autoimmune disease, right? Destroys the beta cells.

Beta cells do regenerate, right? Even in type 1's. But they get nuked due to the autoimmune disease. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If an autoimmune disease can go into remission, and they do, then potentially that could be a way for a Type 1 to recover insulin function.

[v-effect]

You are incorrect. Type 1 cannot go into remission. And the autoimmune response is *permanent* which is why they are trying to sheathe transplanted beta cells in porous plastic.
I think you need to read the extensive research on this topic before meditating casually on a disease that some of us live with everyday.

V.

[AgimA]

First of all, I'm not a raw-fooder. I don't believe in magical enzymes. However...

Type 1 is an autoimmune disease, right? Destroys the beta cells.

Beta cells do regenerate, right? Even in type 1's. But they get nuked due to the autoimmune disease. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If an autoimmune disease can go into remission, and they do, then potentially that could be a way for a Type 1 to recover insulin function.

That's right Nancy, I also believe that regeneration is possible on most type 1s, even Dr. Bernstein (who has no noticeable insulin production) said that he only knows of 2 type 1s that seem not to be able to produce insulin, himself and a patient of him. All the others still produce insulin (around 88% of type 1 from what I've read).

If you get rid of the antibodies, you will probably be able to regenerate beta cells (I've read that in 1 year the pancreas is able to regenerate around 20% of beta cells, don't have the link though), this is what a lot of studies on animals suggest.

I don't know if this raw food diet can achieve this effect. Since we don't know what kind of seeds (I understand that the main focus of the diet are seeds) they provide, we won't know what nutrients they're ingesting.

But, generally speaking, as seeds are baby plants, that contain nutrients in extreme amounts, if you have high amounts of quercetin in the grown plant for example, usually you will have monstrous amounts in the seed.

[v-effect]

umm. The problem is you can't "get rid of the antibodies."

Can someone please tell me why it is important to non Type 1's to discuss things they know nothing about? I,for example, do not contribute to discussions of say, metformin.
It is rather crushing to read about false "cures."

V.

[AgimA]

umm. The problem is you can't "get rid of the antibodies."

Can someone please tell me why it is important to non Type 1's to discuss things they know nothing about? I,for example, do not contribute to discussions of say, metformin.
It is rather crushing to read about false "cures."

V.

Because it looks like there are different types 1? Eddie suggests that there are true type 1s and false type 1s.

Why are you so sure that you can't get rid of the antibodies? As I understand it, it has been observed that they can disappear, it is not known why, for now.

[v-effect]

Can you point to a case of Type 1 reversal (peer reviewed literature, please) where the antibodies have "gone away" and beta cell function restored? Surely these people should be studied by those doctors researching a cure for T1.
And what you are discussing refers to "false" T1's? I've never heard this term, but perhaps from now on if anyone is refering to an *existing* cure for T1, they could clarify that they are talking about "false" T1?

V.

[AgimA]

The teen with the silent celiac disease, he had the antibodies ICA, GAD65 and glucose disturbed metabolism, everything changed (the antibodies disappeared) with the change of diet.

If he would have continiued eating gluten, I'm pretty sure he would have gone into a full blown IDDM very fast. It looks like that the gluten was the culprit for the GAD65 and ICA abs.

I suspect that some people qualified as type I, have this problem undetected. There are probably other metabolic disorders that will have the same effect and are just qualified as type 1.

We just don't know a lot about the causes of diabetes, but a lot of data suggests refined/excessive glucose/lactose/fructose as the main culprits, yes, even for type 1s. If the ingestion of gluten can cause antibodies and they dissapear when you don't ingest the stuff, why can't be the same true for the sugars?

There are others that claim, like those defined as LADAs, usually qualified as type 1s, sometimes as type 2s, that they can get off insulin after using it for prolongued periods of times.

For the true/false thing, perhaps Eddie himself could explain what he means by that.

BTW, I'm classified, for the moment, as a NIDDM type I, no joke.

[dancinbr]

Folks,

With all due respect to each of you, stop being so contentious with remarks.

We all have lots to learn.

We all have hopes.

Look back a few decades and there would have been people in a "forum" saying diabetes is a death sentence and it was back then.

But now, people live with it as a result of meters, insulin fast and slow, better diets., etc.

Who knows what the future may bring.

Maybe some day based on something noone knows a thing about right now in this moment in time , there is no "cure" for Type 1 diabetes.

Perhaps a decade maybe two from now people will be in here talking about how happy that "such and such" a disease is now solved.

Play nice.

I always have hope.

I see lots of hope here battling with reality; but reality changes minute by minute.

Best wishes to each of you,

Ralph

[Cajunboy47]

Good point Ralph!

The "Cure" if there is a cure for anything, be it diabetes, cancer, etc.... It all exists NOW, not in some future moment. It is only for us to discover its existence.....

What's so wrong with hope for a cure for type I diabetes?

Veffect is panicked that this discussion will lure some type 1s' into some dangerous situation and finds such discussions as a source of anger. I've not read where anyone suggested that anyone should discontinue their meds, insulin, monitoring, etc......

The reality is most of us don't have enough hope............

When I started following my wife's advice on how to control my diabetes, I didn't do it because I knew she was right. I had faith and hope that in following her ways, it would work. My faith and hope has led to a much improved lifesyle, filled with love and health. That's my reality and it could not have happened without hope!!!!!!!!

Yes, Ralph is right. We are all sometimes too rough on ourselves and others. We're in this together, but we need to listen to it all, especially the experiences of others....

[v-effect]

Hi all,

Thanks for the words about hope- I do have lots of hope! And I am not "panicked." Rather I have a perhaps maternal, protective attitude toward young diabetics who might find the videos of quacks and try their "advice." I believe I've heard people on this board fulminate, rightly, against the ADA 's quack guidelines to treat T2. What's the difference? Both are lethal lies.
I will desist in this discussion. However, out of curiousity, I still wonder why non autoimmune type 1 diabetics care so much about claiming there are cures out there *for me.* It's just plain odd.

V.

[Nancy LC]

V, this is conversation we're having here, not advice to Type-1 diabetics. I think most people realize that.

Having suffered from at least 2 autoimmune diseases and issues with gluten (which getting off of cleared one autoimmune disease, well the symptoms anyway), I did a lot of reading on a hypothesis of autoimmune diseases.

Here's how it goes:

Normally we have all sorts of foreign proteins in the gut from the foods we eat. Something bad happens that opens up the "tight junctions" in the gut that allows some of these proteins to get into the blood stream before they're properly digested into amino acids. These proteins are then recognized by the body as foreign and it sets off an autoimmune reaction to those proteins.

Unfortunately these proteins sometimes resemble proteins our body produces naturally as hormones or things cells secrete to do things. Because the body is now programmed to respond to proteins shaped like that, it now starts attacking itself.

This theory is one Dr. Ebringer has been looking at for Anklosing Spondylitis patients who produce a protein very similar to the Klebsiella Pnuemonia bacteria. Here's a link if you're interested in reading more. Molecular Mimicry (http://www.kickas.org/molecular_mimicry.shtml)

This idea of a "leaky gut", where foreign proteins can cross the intestinal barrier and set off an autoimmune disease is getting quite a lot of attention in some circles.

So, the big question is, is this how long does the immune system remember a foreign protein and respond to it? It isn't forever, we know that from getting flu shots and other immunizations. You have to redo them periodically. If you could heal the leaky gut or prevent that foreign protein from crossing over, perhaps eventually the autoimmune reaction would eventually stop.

As far as what causes a leaky gut to begin with, we know at least one culprit. It was discovered that a hormone called Zonulin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zonulin) causes the tight junctions in the gut to open allowing stuff to cross over into the blood stream. Why do we make Zonulin? Why do some people have their TJ's get stuck open? These are all matters that some researchers are looking into and could possibly lead to some discoveries that could help all autoimmune sufferers someday! We can hope.

BTW: If you go to pubmed.org and put "intestinal permeability" in the search box there is quite a lot to read. Including this: Leaking gut in Type 1 diabetics (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19122519?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)

My own personal theory is that its the food we're eating that is causing the TJ's to open and sometimes stay open. I think that's why Celiacs are so prone to getting other autoimmune diseases, they get the worst effect from Zonulin.

[AgimA]

Nancy, thanks for the valuable info.

There's also a hint that Type II is also caused by some intestinal dysfunction. I've read that if a Type II's duodene is bypassed, diabetes will disappear almost overnight.

I find it odd that by bypassing a part of the intestine will provide an almost instataneous cure and I'm convinced that all Types of diabetes, excepting Type I Mody are caused by what we ingest. Perhaps what we eat alters the flora in the gut and then you get a disbalance in which some will thrive and release toxins.

In my case, I had for years problems with my digestive system, but that was more nerve related.

Interesting theory you've posted. Thanks :)

[Cajunboy47]

V,

I used to get riled when people spoke against herbal useage and I used to get myself in a fluster when I read about type 2's being dependent on insulin. I probably can still get rile and flustered about many things...... :)

Newbies to this board or to diabetes should not be a deterrent to our expressing ourselves about how we feel at whatever juncture we are on our individual journey.

One thing I've learned is that there's always more to learn. I don't think there is a constant way to approach diabetes, be it for a type 1 or type 2. The disease changes and we must change along with it.

With everything I've done and I've had successes, I've still not stumbled onto anything that's permanent and it's likely I never will. But, no matter what my odds are of finding a cure/permanent control, I'll be damned if I'll lay down and die without trying new things from time to time, even it is futile.

By the way, I introduced one video about a type 1 supposedly being able to go off of insulin due to a vegetarian diet of sorts, but I laid it out there and that doesn't necessarily make me an advocate of there being a cure......... However, if it leads others to look more into it and report successes or lack thereof, then I've done my part by introducing the video. I surely am not posting to aggravate anyone and cause hate and discontent......

[januaria]

Nancy, thanks for the valuable info.

There's also a hint that Type II is also caused by some intestinal dysfunction. I've read that if a Type II's duodene is bypassed, diabetes will disappear almost overnight.

I find it odd that by bypassing a part of the intestine will provide an almost instataneous cure and I'm convinced that all Types of diabetes, excepting Type I Mody are caused by what we ingest. Perhaps what we eat alters the flora in the gut and then you get a disbalance in which some will thrive and release toxins.

In my case, I had for years problems with my digestive system, but that was more nerve related.

Interesting theory you've posted. Thanks :)

Hi Agima,

I agree with you. I saw a documentary here in Canada about the gastric bypass surgery, and it set me on a new path. Then I saw the Gabriel Cousens documentary on TV - where he takes 6 diabetics who have been on insulin plus other meds for years (and one type 1 supposedly), and put them on a diet of raw vegan food after a 5 day green juice fast. They were all off their meds by the first week.

I kept this in mind, and when Vivid Lily posted about raw food about ten days ago and said she had been off insulin for months after being on it for years, I remembered that documentary and thought I would see for myself.

So five days ago, I began eating raw vegan foods. Yesterday and today I had a few hypos of 3.7 (don't know in US terms), even after I cut down my basal from 16 morning and evening to 10 morning and evening and cut out most bolus. Frankly, I am astounded. I had very little faith that it would work. Also, I wasn't a salad lover. I don't know why this works or for how long, since diabetes is progressive; however, Dr Cousens says the raw food turns off the expression of the inherited gene.

Now before anyone jumps on me for posting this, the topic of this thread was if anyone was able to get off insulin. The answer is yes. Vivid Lily and other have, and it looks like I might be doing that too. Raw vegan seems to work.

[AgimA]

Hi januaria,

yes, I saw that too, it's really strange.

I measured before 3.4 (62)!!! But I'm not on raw diet, just taking some supplements, seeds (pumpkin, sunflower) with salads and fatty meats. I'm amazed on how I'm able to work with such lows, last week it was a different story though.

I took a spoon of peanut butter and I'm now at 4.4 (80), will drink some green tea without tequila... ;)

I'm not on insulin or other "legal" medications

[AgimA]

For the record, I was also on insulin, 3 days only tough... When I saw on how my BG was plummeting I got scared, I woke up trembling and sweating with a reading of 4.5, went to the 2 bozos and told them to stick their lantus where they preferredly pleased, they agreed, well, they had to :D

A week later I dropped metfin, after reading the possible side effects.

To be a doc must be hell nowadays. No more respect from the poor sickies.

[Cajunboy47]

For the record, the original post referred to "getting off of oral meds or injections".... The original poster is a type 2 diabetic.

I was on oral meds and was told my pancreas was giving out on me and that soon it would no longer produce insulin. With the medications, I could not keep my BG under 200. I was literally going to hell in a hand basket and took matters into my own hands, science or no science studies to back up anything.

I not only got off of prescription diabetic medications, I got off of 7 other prescription medications.

I don't buy into that crap about the pancreas not producing insulin and dead beta cells.......... There isn't a way anyone can know for sure what their beta cells can and cannot do by changing up on diet, etc.... Hope! what else can we do, but hope for a better outcome......???

[soapluvr]

Thank you cajunboy. I have had my doubts too about the beta cells dying off although I'm nowhere near anything being close to a scientist. But your post is encouraging.

[dancinbr]

So we have hope and that is terrific.

And right now we continue to learn.

Low Carbs helps.

Apparently, raw vegetables helps; based on the video Cajunboy47 brought to us for consideration.

Also, losing weight helps; now that is my challenge.

So I can hope that if I get my act together a bit better, lose weight and control what I eat a bit better, my dependencies on meds will be reduced.

That is good.

Perhaps, I can get to zero on some of these meds.

I take four meds for high blood pressure; get the weight off and these probably are reduced or go away.

I take 40 units of basal insulin in the AM and PM (levemir). Lose weight and keep my diet toward low carbs and perhaps more raw vegetables and this is dramatically reduced, if not totally eliminated.

Keep any one meal under 20 grams of carbs for me and I don't really need any bolus insulin (Novolog).

I am type 2.

So having been around this forum for almost two years now, what I just wrote above I had no, none, totally ignorant, dumb , etc., knowledge about anything about controlling diabetes.

Now, I have a direction and as Cajunboy47 says that direction can be changed and methods can be introduced and changed with the objective always of the end result of controlling my diabetes as measured by my meter and my A1C tests.

So now I walk around with BFG levels usually around 100. I keep my BG around 80-110 in between meals and I try like heck to keep it from going over 140, but I do indulge in all the "non-desired" foods that I don't quite give up completely.

But I am better off today because of the knowledge and discussions we share here constantly.

Cajunboy47 tried like heck to get me to use herbs and be faithful to my low carb. I am pretty faithful to low carb but occasionally it goes out the window. I had success as compared to my numbers before doing anything to control my diabetes. My A1Cs before control were 9.3 and now in the high 5's , like 5.4, 5.6, and 5.8. Now I have it at 5.2.

But I wanted better given the circumstances of my habits good or bad and the desire to lower my BFG and BG under 100 and maybe get my A1C under 5.0 and emulate "normal" as much as possible.

Again, as I look back at what I am writing in this post, all this knowledge, experimenting, improvement in lifestyle is all a result of sharing all kinds of information here, reading Dr. B's book, etc. and all of your kind support.

Can I do better; certainly. But I tell you what I am better off now compared to most people who are totally ignorant, non-inquisitive about this disease and still accept archaic advice from Doctors that aren't up to date on how to control this disease.

By the way I was considering Bariatric Gastric By-Pass and one of the first things the surgeon stated is for reasons they do not understand, the by-pass immediately gets a diabetic patiend off of insulin or "cures" it. He agreed in a private discussion with me that it is controlled not cured and perhaps most patients are dramatically improved and reduce their insulin to minimal if they are type 1s and off of it completely if they are type 2s. Both this surgeon and the cardiologist I am now seeing talk in terms of me reversing my disease (again Type 2) if I get probably 70 pounds off and soon since I am still early into this journey as a diabetic. I countered back to them that Phase I response is gone. Is there any evidence that it comes back and I did not get a reply but an acknowledgement. So the conversation was more about control and improvement; dramatic improvement and guess what I will take that.

Now, to get the weight off.

And thank you all for being here for me, for others so we can all learn and make the best of this situation that we have truly brought onto ourselves in most cases; especially the epidemic outbreak of Type 2 in the last couple of decades.

Ralph

[Cajunboy47]

So we have hope and that is terrific.

Keep any one meal under 20 grams of carbs for me and I don't really need any bolus insulin (Novolog).

But I am better off today because of the knowledge and discussions we share here constantly.

Cajunboy47 tried like heck to get me to use herbs and be faithful to my low carb.

But I wanted better given the circumstances of my habits good or bad and the desire to lower my BFG and BG under 100 and maybe get my A1C under 5.0 and emulate "normal" as much as possible.

Again, as I look back at what I am writing in this post, all this knowledge, experimenting, improvement in lifestyle is all a result of sharing all kinds of information here, reading Dr. B's book, etc. and all of your kind support.

Can I do better; certainly.

Both this surgeon and the cardiologist I am now seeing talk in terms of me reversing my disease (again Type 2) if I get probably 70 pounds off and soon since I am still early into this journey as a diabetic. I countered back to them that Phase I response is gone.

Now, to get the weight off.

Ralph

Ralph,

Perhaps, now you'll say I'm not so kind, but I'm not only concerned how you're doing today, but how you'll be doing tomorrow. So, I'll HOPE you understand my truest meaning and not feel offended or attacked.

When I am reading your writings; I see a man who knows he eats too many carbs. This wise man learned that he can take insulin to control BG and still eat excessive carbs and "emulate" normal BG levels in this way.... But, their must be an inner voice inside this man that tells him, controlling BG is not enough, because he has concluded he needs to lose the weight. This man at some level, realizes that carbohydrates is his enemy, but his desire to consume these carbohydrates is stronger than his desire to control the intake of them. So, this man chooses what he sees as a way out of his dilemna, "lap-band surgery"......

Ralph, I didn't have as many pounds to shed, but I share your problems with carbs... I love them too................ In my beginning, I didn't realize what I know now and I'll share this with you. At one level, I know you already know this, but if you can learn it at the level at which it really counts, you'll take my words to heart and a true change can take place within you that might help you in your fight with those damn carbs that we so love and hate....

Cutting out all carbs will accelerate weight loss. At some point, enough weight loss allows a person to feel better, then a person feels like doing more regular exercise and then more weight loss can occur. It is like taking a downward spiral and turning it upside down to spiral things upward for a change......

After sufficient weight loss, either the pancreas starts producing sufficient insulin, or the body starts using the insulin more efficiently. All of a sudden, you can enjoy many of the carbs that once gave you trouble.

I shouldn't say this, as it might make others go on a carb binge, but my last A1c was a 5.4, but truthfully, I think on most days my carbs were about 35%, never less than 30% and on about 1/5th of those days, I might have consumed as much as 60% carbs......... I didn't take as many herbs as I used to take and I didn't take them with any degree of regularity. As a matter of fact, my wife tells me the herbs are more effective if taken 30 minutes before I eat and in the last 6 months, I don't think I took the herbs once before I ate a meal......

I'm not walking around as a thin man yet.... I am currently weighing 165, 10 pounds over my goal weight, but guess what? I realize that when I was young and weighed 155, I had a lot more muscle. Now, most likely, I need to get my weight down to about 145 to lose all the fat, so I'm most likely walking around with an extra 20 pounds of fat while having my carb/bg story to talk about.....

Removing carbs is not a forever thing. Something happened for me in my metabolism, something totally different from before. I can't prove anything about what exactly did it. I just know it can be done, because I did it....

My concern for you is that after a lap-band surgery, even though you know you need to still change your diet to be successful at weight loss and BG control, is that the surgery will leave you feeling like you're now having to battle with another problem and the current one still won't be resolved.

In my beginning to change things, I felt so overwhelmed by diabetes. I started taking it a day at a time, losing my anxiety and thoughts about the future. I took it a meal at a time. I lost about 20+ pounds in about a 2 year period before going to China, then I lost 30+ pounds in just 4 months while in China. If something isn't working, change it! I suppose that along with hope, that was my driving force. The way I was doing it was not working for me like I wanted.

For me, my wife's changing my diet completely from anything I've read or tried turned my life around. Herbs turned my diabetes around also. Exercise turned my diabetes around.

Anyway, I know you've considered all these things. All I ask is that while you wait for your surgery, try going carbless, try taking herbs, try different things.... Read what I quoted you as writing. Your own words speak very loudly to what I am trying to convey to you....

I care about you man!

Ron

[dancinbr]

Ron,

Thanks.

No offense taken.

The little voice in me is saying I don't need the Lap Band.

I need support groups such as here.

I need to make a true commitment to less carbs or nor carbs and I need to avoid breads, rice, potatoes, pasta, bagels, cookies and sugar products.

I also have heart disease most recently discovered and have joined yet another forum named trackingyourplaque; led by a cardiologist and others out in Wisconsin.

More of the same wisdom from this group.

So, yesterday I made a new commitment to get my act together. I am walking one mile a day again. I am now cutting back heavily on carbs.

I need to get the weight off. If I get the first 20 off and get under 260 into the 250s I will feel a whole lot better and able to exercise more; just as you describe.

So here I go!

Ralph

[Cajunboy47]

Ralph,

You can do it...........

Focus on healthy things to do and the weight loss will take care of itself....

Also, I'm guessing you're taking a multitude of supplements as I've done in the past. If I may suggest, if that is the case, split them up into 4 or 5 times per day to take them and each time with a nice big healthy glass of water.... Eat smaller meals and tell yourself its ok to do so because you can always eat more later if you're still hungry. I suspect you're like me in many ways in attitude toward foods. You probably hate to leave anything on the plate and if its there you rarely think of eating some of it later.

I have never drectly told anyone to take anything or to not take anything, but I trust you're a monitor often person, so I'm not too concerned with making a strong suggestion to you. Don't be shy at kicking questions back at me, or trying to get others to offer comments or opinions.

Berberine hcl is fairly safe to take and I don't think it interferes with other medications. I just want to point out that when taken at 500mg doses for 90 days, it will most likely lower your cholesterol considerably, lower your blood pressure, lower your blood sugar, and very subtly help with weight loss. It is not an appetite suppressant, but something about it assists in helping to lose weight.

I'm merely suggesting that you try it for 90 days and see if it does not help. I suspect that if you can get yourself to walk 15-20 minutes one to three times a day, plus using the berberine, you'll see amazing changes at the 90 day mark...

Anyway, think about it.... You must ultimately decide. I don't know all your particulars, but I do know we both share the "Brain knows better, but deceives me often" syndrome....

Ron

[Vivid Lily]

Anyone know anything about glutithione? I've heard this is really supposed to help with all the above mentioned things as well. Another thing I've found for myself is that if I start my day off with a coffee , I pretty much know that I will fail that day in eating healthy. If I start my day off with a green smoothie. I have success!! :) I've never taken berberine Hcl -what brand do you find is best. I'm going to go look for it today. I'm willing to try just about anything that will help. Thanks!! bye for now. Suzy :D

[Cajunboy47]

Vivid Lily,

the info you want is in the berbine hcl thread in this forum, but if you use it, be sure and monitor and maybe also read up about it........ Be careful if taking prescription meds for blood sugar control and the berberine. I also have my herbal use well documented in my journal if you have the time to check it out....

[AgimA]

Nancy, and all the others, of course, what do you think about this?

http://www.citeulike.org/group/5070/article/2949599

this suggests that the whole diabetes thing is more of a nerve/digestive tract imbalance, no matter what type, excepting Type I Mody.

We know that carbs act like a drug and that excessive carbs are quite detrimental to the nervous system and I guess that they stimulate the growth of some specific, probably toxic, flora in our guts.

It seems, according to the findings of another member, that gluten is an opiate analogue, we all know what opiates do to our nervous system.

I know, that extreme carb intake, makes me extremely agressive and nervous.

I really think that this gene hypothesis is somehow difficult to swallow, more if you see how many pets are suddenly diabetics as well, is there any study if anyone has caught a diabetic animal in the wild? Or a diabetic human that has a "wild" style of living (hunter/gatherer)?

And this one is for you Ron, it's about the supposed "obliteration" of beta cells in a GAD65Ab positive diabetic:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/reprint/22/4/615.pdf

Yet some of the medical inteligentsia posture that they really know what's going on...

Weird...

[Cajunboy47]

And this one is for you Ron, it's about the supposed "obliteration" of beta cells in a GAD65Ab positive diabetic:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/reprint/22/4/615.pdf

Yet some of the medical inteligentsia posture that they really know what's going on...

Weird...

Nah! not for me, it takes too much time and effort to read those case studies and medical jargon..... I've come to realize it is too stressful to read all that. I keep it much simpler, sort of like your green tongue experiement.

I try it, if it works, I do it again. If it doesn't work, I do something else, if it stops working after first working, I do something else, etc.....

Comparing oneself to oneself is a lot more productive than reading about possible or theoretical solutions that are usually conducted in some biased or flawed arena.....

I'm all for science experimenting and trying to find cures. I just don't think my reading and getting all wrapped up in understanding the "micro" of it all is beneficial to me. That type of "head knowledge" often does little to improve my physical health in my opinion. I don't mind reading summaries that are written in laymen's terms, especially if pros and cons are listed...

So, is it still green? :)

[AgimA]

So, is it still green? :)

Yep, light green now, but the tip has cleared and the tongue looks smoother...

I'm pretty sure it is the BMOV, at least now I'm sure that it is contained in those pills.

[dancinbr]

I missed is it still green thing.

What r u talking about?

Hey Cajunboy - three days into my new commitment and doing well.

My morning BFG have dropped back into the 80s too.

I am also following some heart healthy things as well.

I can tolerate oats and oats will help plaque and LDL reduction.

I will look into the Berberine hcl .

I continue to take my basal insulin (Levemir) 40 units in the AM and in the PM.

The last two days I have had to use minimal bolus (Novolog).

This morning I covered the 1 cup of oatmeal with Novolog. Even if I didn't take the bolus my upper end of BG would have been 140. But this way, it stays even lower.

Again, my prime objective is keeping my A1C in the low 5's and perhaps getting into 4.6-5.0 range.

The weight is coming off. Too soon to get excited. Must stay disciplined.

If this stalls for a period of time, I wll pursue a medically assisted program to get my weight down to the 230 range more quickly and then resume my low carb heart healthy approach.

My cardiac catscan calcium score is 1107 and that is way high by all standards I have researched. Also, once you have plaque, it tends to grow 30% per year unless you take specific measures to counter the growth and to change your lifestyle; ahem maybe this is the final wake up call for me.

I have added Carlson's fish oil. It turns out that EPA + DHA in levels 3000mg and up help and reverse the plaque situation in your arteries.

So I take two teaspoons of Carlson's Lemon Flavored Fish Oil daily one in the morning with meal and one in the evening with dinner.

I also take Krill Oil which has another 440mg of EPA + DHA.

What I am reading over in my TrackYourPlaque forum, and I am brand new over there, is Omega 3 is so important and also the reduction of Omega 6.

This is all about preventing a heart attack and if you do get one surviving it.

The fish oils stabilize the existing plaque so you are not likely to get the Tim Russert happening.

Yes, I take all kinds of supplements too.

Still take Metformin ER 1000mg in the AM and 1000mg in the PM. I have a feeling I may not need all of this, but I will wait and see.

I take Norvasc, Avapro and furosemide along with prescription Potassium to control my blood pressure. I am going to ask the doctor to review this potion and see if I can find another approach. The Norvasc leads to "fat" legs; too much water in my legs. It is a side effect.

So I am on a new journey, a new path. I have somewhat stolen this thread and I apologize.

Getting back to "getting off of insulin" I would hope these new actions I am taking will ultimately lead to less insulin requried for me; a type 2 that I am.

Also, fish oil improves insulin sensitivity.

Thank all of you for your support.

Ralph

[Cajunboy47]

Ralph,

I recognize "correct frame of mind" as your most important weapon, and this is a war, really! Good luck in your daily battles and remember, you don't have to win ever battle to win the war!!!

That berberine will amaze you in the lowering effects of cholestero and BG. Monitor often when you start. I suspect you'll be cutting back very quickly on the insulin.

Keep up the good work on your diet and exercise habits. A new habit practiced daily becomes reinforced after a few weeks of routine to become a new lifestyle and just an everyday thing....

I am excited for you!!!

Ron

[Nancy LC]

Ralph, glad to hear you joined TYP! I hope you'll be another success story!

[dancinbr]

Ralph,

I recognize "correct frame of mind" as your most important weapon, and this is a war, really! Good luck in your daily battles and remember, you don't have to win ever battle to win the war!!!

That berberine will amaze you in the lowering effects of cholestero and BG. Monitor often when you start. I suspect you'll be cutting back very quickly on the insulin.

Keep up the good work on your diet and exercise habits. A new habit practiced daily becomes reinforced after a few weeks of routine to become a new lifestyle and just an everyday thing....

I am excited for you!!!

Ron

This is really about life and death when you think about it. It really is.

I am 65 and would like to make it well into my 80s.

I need to do things to make that possible.

So, day 4 and we are doing well.

Yes, it is a frame of mind.

Ralph

[dancinbr]

Ralph, glad to hear you joined TYP! I hope you'll be another success story!

Nancy,

Thanks.

Yes, I hope to be another success story.

I am posting and starting several new approaches to help stop plaque advancement.

A very good site.

I don't know if there is a lot of posting going on.

Ralph

[AgimA]

Hey Nancy,

an article that supports your "it's in the gut" thoughts:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3042556/Diabetes-pill-hope-as-bacteria-halts-disease.html

Since I'm having gut problems as well, I guess that I should get my flora right. I hope that low carbing will help with it.

I'm really convinced that most diabetes types are caused by an imbalance in the gut fauna/flora. There must be a critter overload somewhere that releases toxins "en masse" and this triggers an immune reaction.

Perhaps it's THAT easy...

[januaria]

Hi everyone,

I posted a while back that I was slowly weaning myself off insulin, levemir and rapid.

I an now on three units of levemir am and pm and 1 or no bolus at meals. I'll be off completely by next week.

I am eatings carbs, mostly in the form of raw, and a little lightly steamed vegetables. I do have a fruit a day occasionally, as well as seeds, nuts, sprouts etc. No dairy, no meat, no gluten, extremely limited grain.

Eating a lot of meat and fat is not the only way to reduce insulin and maintain normal BG levels - although it works for many.

I was on 30 units of levemir at my highest, am and pm, for a total of 60 per day. Now I am on three and my BG levels are great.

It CAN be done. Right now, I imagine I have some beta cell function; I might need the meds again if that changes. Who knows?

I have lost 2o pounds or so since early December and walk at least 30 minutes a day. I could not walk without severe lower back pain until I lost more weight, but now I can walk the whole mile with no pain at all.

My BP has dropped so low that I will no doubt stop taking ramapril - it was 105 /70 last evening.

I continue to take metformin, but if I lose more weight, I may not need it.

I am going to read the articles someone posted on the nerve/digestive connection, because this is what got me started on this path: if it is the case - and it is, that gastric bypass patients can leave the hospital completely off all diabetic medication, there MUST be a way to mimic that through what we eat or don't eat.

Frankly, I just didn't like all that meat and fat; I am not saying it's unsafe - not at all, I just don't like it, so I had to find another way. When Vivid Lily posted a link for raw food, I followed it and the rest is history. I followed it because I had heard of the work Dr Gabriel Cousesn had done with long-term diabetics - they were off insulin in a week following a raw food vegan diet.

I am still relatively low in carbs since my food is mostly vegetables, nuts and seeds, and I can tolerate the fat in nutss, seeds, olives and avodacos much more easily.

I keep coming back to this forum because of the support, and the excellent information.

To Ralph: Don't despair - you may be able to get off insulin; there are a few different paths. I chose an extreme path (raw vegan) and I think the Atkins type diets are extreme as well, but if you read 'Death to Diabetes' by DeWayne McCulley, he did it by eating a combination of flesh and vegetables. The point is, they all work, if you stick to them and make them a way of life and not a 'diet' that will be over and then you can eat 'normally' again. For us, there is no going back to the standard American diet. Ever. Once you make peace with that fact, you have begun to turn your life around.

You have to find a way that works for you. I never thought I would take to exercise, I had hated it since 1990 when I began to put weight on from eating the same meals I always had -but now I can't wait to do it every day. It's great when there is no pain. It's so joyous to be able to walk in the sun again! I started by stepping up and down on the lowest stair on my way to the bathroom, and by hefting soup cans while watching tv and reading on the computer - I say 'hefting' because I had severe muscle wasting and that was even hard at first. I use 5 lb weights now.

Stay on this forum, with Jenny, Nancy, CajunBoy et al - you will get support and some excellent advice. I'll check in from time to time to see how you are doing. This CAN be done without lapband or gastric surgery.

April.

[januaria]

Hey Nancy,

an article that supports your "it's in the gut" thoughts:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3042556/Diabetes-pill-hope-as-bacteria-halts-disease.html

Since I'm having gut problems as well, I guess that I should get my flora right. I hope that low carbing will help with it.

I'm really convinced that most diabetes types are caused by an imbalance in the gut fauna/flora. There must be a critter overload somewhere that releases toxins "en masse" and this triggers an immune reaction.

Perhaps it's THAT easy...

I think it is. And I do think it is an immune reaction I have because although my endo is treating me as if I have T2 - she is not entirely certain. I think that there will be a very simple cure for this soon, and most certainly it will be prevented, perhaps through diet, perhaps via a new medication. Bu if gastric bypass patients can leave hospital no longer diabetic - then the answer is in the digestive system and not in the pancreas itself.

[januaria]

Vivid Lily,

Do you have a link for the Raw Food Divas? I did try the raw paleo for a while, but eating raw meat made me nauseous - maybe there is a way around this or some way to get used to it slowly.

Some foods are better cooked, such as tomatoes, but I think a mostly raw diet is a great thing - all those available enzymes and vitamins.

April.

Since this post, I have reduced my basal insulin from 30 units am and pm (at my highest) to three units am and pm, and my bolus to 0 or 1 if I eat a fruit.

Since this thread is about getting off insulin - I thought I would update it. I am having very low readings even on the 3 units, so I will probably be right off by the end of this week.

[eddiemcm]

Many people who have never had gut problems or been overly overweight,like myself, are type II diabetics.There is probably no
single solution to diabetes.We must all find what works the best
and produces the best quality of life for us.
Eddie

[National G]

Wow Januaria,
That is wonderful.
Congratulations! This is an interesting thread. My insulin is down just after 10 lbs loss. I think it's the no-grain for me.
Keep posting..you are a delight to read.

[januaria]

Wow Januaria,
That is wonderful.
Congratulations! This is an interesting thread. My insulin is down just after 10 lbs loss. I think it's the no-grain for me.
Keep posting..you are a delight to read.

Thanks, National G - as of today, I am off completely. I cut out grain and dairy as well and my irritable bowel cleared up. I have lost about 25 pounds since December and this has helped a lot, and I am exercising daily.

My doc was amazed but distrustful and said I might find that my morning BG will start to rise and I will need nightime basal. We'll see. So far, without any insulin at all, my BG tonight is 5.3

[Squarecube]

I'm sorry if you've mentioned this before, but how long were you on insulin? I'm wondering if the use, gave your pancreas a rest - this is something berstein writes about.

[Cajunboy47]

I'm sorry if you've mentioned this before, but how long were you on insulin? I'm wondering if the use, gave your pancreas a rest - this is something berstein writes about.

I feel that using insulin is definitely not what is helping Januaria get off of insulin. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure her change of diet is the contributing factor. Name me one person who used insulin and is off of it after a period of time without doing anything but following something similar to an ADA diet???

I'm not saying it is impossible, just highly improbable.

I congratulate Januaria on her success and acknowledge that her constant monitoring was her safety net in insuring that she did not get herself in trouble while making these adjustments..... It is a success story!!

[dancinbr]

So I am off insulin completely now.

I am a type 2.

I am down to 251-253 and getting ready to assault the 240s!!

My BP has dropped to very nice levels.

My last A1C was 5.6; so I am happy.

Now to look into this beberine hcl more closely; did I spell that right?

I added Bitter melon to my daily regimen.

It seems to be helping.

Ralph

[soapluvr]

Ralph, it is called Berberine. the chinese name is huang lian su.

I buy mine from here http://www.shopsuigetsu.com/Alternative_Healthcare_and_Traditional_Chinese_Medicine_s/47.htm

but I think there are other places you can get it.

[dancinbr]

Ralph, it is called Berberine. the chinese name is huang lian su.

I buy mine from here http://www.shopsuigetsu.com/Alternative_Healthcare_and_Traditional_Chinese_Medicine_s/47.htm

but I think there are other places you can get it.

Thanks.

What dosage are you taking?

Is this the only herb you are taking.

I am interested, as Ron has indicated, that this may be the only herb he needs to control his BG.

Thanks again,

Ralph

[eddiemcm]

Ralph
I have had good luck with Berberine-4 or 5 teapills about 30 minutes after each meal lowers BG quite a bit.
Eddie

[soapluvr]

I do the same thing as Eddie. This is my second go around with the herb and this time it's not workng quite as well. I have seen some lower readings since starting it two weeks ago but my FBG still won't get below 100. Last time I took my FBG was two days ago and it was 102. I waited two hours after I got up in the morning and took it again at 8:00 AM and it was 95. That is somewhat of an improvement than when I was not taking it but it is not as good as when I was taking it in the winter.

[dancinbr]

Ralph
I have had good luck with Berberine-4 or 5 teapills about 30 minutes after each meal lowers BG quite a bit.
Eddie

Thanks Eddie. I think I will add this to my bitter melon regimen, which appears to help bring the BG down during the day.

[dancinbr]

I do the same thing as Eddie. This is my second go around with the herb and this time it's not workng quite as well. I have seen some lower readings since starting it two weeks ago but my FBG still won't get below 100. Last time I took my FBG was two days ago and it was 102. I waited two hours after I got up in the morning and took it again at 8:00 AM and it was 95. That is somewhat of an improvement than when I was not taking it but it is not as good as when I was taking it in the winter.

Hi, my FBG are in the 115-130 area again. I am not worried since they do come down as soon as I have something to eat.

I am not exceeding 140 and if I do it is a rare event and my BG goes back down within a couple of hours especially with the bitter melon.

So I am off of meds and now willing to work with two herbs.

Hey Cajunboy where are you? !!!



:D

[eddiemcm]

I originally bought huang lian su from www.shopsuigetsu.com-12 pills per container.It worked well.They switched off to another
vendor.Pills came something like 100 per bottle.These pills didn't
work nearly as well as originals.I now buy huang lian su from
www.cheungstrading.com-same product and good results that I initially got from shopsuigetsu.
Eddie

[eddiemcm]

I should have mentioned that huang lian su worked well on
my postprandial BG but never helped FBG.Bitter melon helped FBG.
Metformin helped FBG.I would think Lantus would be great for
FBG.
Eddie

[soapluvr]

I originally bought huang lian su from www.shopsuigetsu.com-12 pills per container.It worked well.They switched off to another
vendor.Pills came something like 100 per bottle.These pills didn't
work nearly as well as originals.I now buy huang lian su from
www.cheungstrading.com-same product and good results that I initially got from shopsuigetsu.
Eddie

I do remember the pills being different last time I used them. I will try the other vender. The HLS worked pretty good for my Fbg last time I used them. Even better than bitter melon.

[soapluvr]

I originally bought huang lian su from www.shopsuigetsu.com-12 pills per container.It worked well.They switched off to another
vendor.Pills came something like 100 per bottle.These pills didn't
work nearly as well as originals.I now buy huang lian su from
www.cheungstrading.com-same product and good results that I initially got from shopsuigetsu.
Eddie

Forgot to ask you this: I see that the company is in Canada. Was the american price the same as Canadian? Also wasn't shipping quite a bit and how long did it take you to get the pills?

[soapluvr]

I should have mentioned that huang lian su worked well on
my postprandial BG but never helped FBG.Bitter melon helped FBG.
Metformin helped FBG.I would think Lantus would be great for
FBG.
Eddie

Sorry for another post. Isn't lantus insulin or like insulin and doesn't it have to taken through shots???? I'm not sure I could do that yet. My numbers aren't high enough for me to resort to that. My FBG is between 100-115 and my pp's never get above 120.....unless I eat a really crappy diet.

[eddiemcm]

Becky
I am converting to an insulin regimen for a couple of months to
give my pancreas a rest.I may revert back to my original regimen
after my evaluation period.The shots don't bother me-I take 4
a day.
About your previous post questions:
1.Canadian dollar and USA dollar currency exchange rate
are $.90 and $.90 today-no diff
2.I Don't remember shipping charges.It only took about a week
for items to arrive
Stay cool
Eddie

[soapluvr]

Becky
I am converting to an insulin regimen for a couple of months to
give my pancreas a rest.I may revert back to my original regimen
after my evaluation period.The shots don't bother me-I take 4
a day.
About your previous post questions:
1.Canadian dollar and USA dollar currency exchange rate
are $.90 and $.90 today-no diff
2.I Don't remember shipping charges.It only took about a week
for items to arrive
Stay cool
Eddie

Did you have to get the insulin through a doctor? I'm assuming you did.
I will order the berberine from the canadian company this week. And as far as staying cool..........our AC went out on tuesday evening. Got a new one in and working last night. I can't remember the last time I was that happy. It got up to 94 degrees in our house yesterday.

[eddiemcm]

Becky
Lantus is available without prescription at a much better price
in Canada.I used www.northwestpharmacy.com.
Actually,Walmart carrys 3 brands of Relion/Novolin insulins that do not require prescriptions.NPH insulin(about 24 bucks for a 1000 unit vial) works almost as well as Lantus for getting rid of the dawn effect.Anyone considering using insulin should read
a book about insulin.There are several on Amazon.
Please note that insulin might not be necessary for you at
this time or possibly any time.Insulin use will sometimes cause
weight gain.
Eddie

[soapluvr]

Becky
Lantus is available without prescription at a much better price
in Canada.I used www.northwestpharmacy.com.
Actually,Walmart carrys 3 brands of Relion/Novolin insulins that do not require prescriptions.NPH insulin(about 24 bucks for a 1000 unit vial) works almost as well as Lantus for getting rid of the dawn effect.Anyone considering using insulin should read
a book about insulin.There are several on Amazon.
Please note that insulin might not be necessary for you at
this time or possibly any time.Insulin use will sometimes cause
weight gain.
Eddie

I have noticed from posts on this board that insulin does cause weight gain or it inhibits one from losing if they need to. I am not going the way of insulin yet but it's something to keep in the back of my mine.

[eddiemcm]

Becky
I am watching out for weight gain-none so far.
Further study indicates Levemir long acting insulin leads to
minimum weight gain compared to Lantus.
Cheers
Eddie

[januaria]

Ralph,

I recognize "correct frame of mind" as your most important weapon, and this is a war, really! Good luck in your daily battles and remember, you don't have to win ever battle to win the war!!!

That berberine will amaze you in the lowering effects of cholestero and BG. Monitor often when you start. I suspect you'll be cutting back very quickly on the insulin.

Keep up the good work on your diet and exercise habits. A new habit practiced daily becomes reinforced after a few weeks of routine to become a new lifestyle and just an everyday thing....

I am excited for you!!!

Ron
Ron, where can I get the BH in Canada? I had to stop taking Metformin due to the unrelenting, incapacitating diarrhea. Just would not quit. I am doing really well on a mostly raw diet - I've lost 52 pounds since diagnosis in June 2007. It's really, really hard to lose, I find. Maybe the BH will speed things up a bit?

April

[Cajunboy47]

well, I have no idea where you would find it, if you mean Berberine Hydrochloride......... I know it is available on the internet. Check the Berberine hcl thread and I posted references there and I think a few others also posted different websites where they could buy it online. I still have my supply from China. :)

[eddiemcm]

About BH:
Just google "huang lian su".You probably want the package of
12 vials(of 12 pills per vial).
Eddie

[soapluvr]

Ron, where can I get the BH in Canada? I had to stop taking Metformin due to the unrelenting, incapacitating diarrhea. Just would not quit. I am doing really well on a mostly raw diet - I've lost 52 pounds since diagnosis in June 2007. It's really, really hard to lose, I find. Maybe the BH will speed things up a bit?

April

try this place. This is where I got my last batch. It's expensive to ship though.

http://www.cheungstrading.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=122&products_id=345

[Cajunboy47]

Nancy, next time you're in Bellaire,

Try this location for Berberine:

Super Health Food
(713) 270-8003 6650 Corporate Dr
Houston, TX

It's off of Bellair, half a block west, not far from Beltway 8

The only thing I suggest is: Don't discuss what you want it for, because they only know it is for diarrhea. It comes in a bottle of 100 pills for under $5... If you inform them, the price will probably go up considerably. Their English is poor, so ask for it by the Chinese name "huang lian su".....

[soapluvr]

Nancy, next time you're in Bellaire,

Try this location for Berberine:

Super Health Food
(713) 270-8003 6650 Corporate Dr
Houston, TX

It's off of Bellair, half a block west, not far from Beltway 8

The only thing I suggest is: Don't discuss what you want it for, because they only know it is for diarrhea. It comes in a bottle of 100 pills for under $5... If you inform them, the price will probably go up considerably. Their English is poor, so ask for it by the Chinese name "huang lian su".....

Thinking about going to day. If not there then I will be going to the hong kong market to ask about the pu erh.

[soapluvr]

Went to the Hong Kong Market about eight miles from my house today and asked two different people about pu erh. They didn't have a clue as to what I was talking about. I showed them on paper....pu erh tea and I made I sign with my fingers and said round brick......the didnt' know. I found my regular blood sugar control tea and also got some Japanese Green Tea.

[Cajunboy47]

Poor Becky... The problem at the Hong Kong Market is, no one there is from Hong Kong or China. Mostly Vietnamese, but other Asians also, forgot about that.. :) Pu'er or Pu'erh as it is written for pronunciaton sake is still a Chinese word and other Asians haven't a clue, unless they drink it and are familiar with it...

[soapluvr]

Poor Becky... The problem at the Hong Kong Market is, no one there is from Hong Kong or China. Mostly Vietnamese, but other Asians also, forgot about that.. :) Pu'er or Pu'erh as it is written for pronunciaton sake is still a Chinese word and other Asians haven't a clue, unless they drink it and are familiar with it...

Yeah I kind of thought the same thing as I was driving home. Looked like mostly vietnamese people in there although I am not an expert and don't have a way of knowing but just a hunch by they way they looked and their language.....ugh very gutural...I hate the way it sounds. Oh well. I am going to try to call the shop you mentioned on Bellaire in chinatown and see if I can communicate with them to see if they have the huan lian su......and if they do I might have my husband pick it up next week on his way home from work as he goes up to Katy two or three times a week and drives pretty close by. But like I said.....we'll see if I can communicate with them.

[v-effect]

[QUOTE=soapluvr]Yeah I kind of thought the same thing as I was driving home. Looked like mostly vietnamese people in there although I am not an expert and don't have a way of knowing but just a hunch by they way they looked and their language.....ugh very gutural...I hate the way it sounds. Oh well. QUOTE]

Maybe we can start a separate thread called "racist diabetics"?

V.

[Cajunboy47]

[QUOTE=soapluvr]Yeah I kind of thought the same thing as I was driving home. Looked like mostly vietnamese people in there although I am not an expert and don't have a way of knowing but just a hunch by they way they looked and their language.....ugh very gutural...I hate the way it sounds. Oh well. QUOTE]

Maybe we can start a separate thread called "racist diabetics"?

V.

V,

get your facts straight! Becky is not a diabetic.... :lol:

You also put an "s" on diabetic implying there is more than one poster making a racist statement.

I don't see any racist statement.

I can see that Becky's choice of words might be borderline "polictially incorrect", but she's really describing a frustrating situation she had while shopping, why make something out of it that it isn't? There's enough real hate and bigotry in this world without creating it where it isn't.....

V, you can relate to such frustration..., every time a Type 2 chimes on a thread you started that you feel should have only been commented on, by Type 1s'.........

btw, is this a T1 or T2 thread? :lol:

[soapluvr]

Thanks Ron and I guess I shouldn't have made the statement about the language but it really is harsh. I find German a tad bit harsh too. I suppose I was too far out there with my opinion. So I will leave it at that. If I offended anyone from Vietnam here I am truly sorry.

And you're right ......I am not diabetic....yet. Trying to keep it that way too.

[soapluvr]

Hey Ron!! My instincts were right on!! I called the shop this morning and the woman answered with "hello". I asked if it was the health food store and she said "I'm sorry I no speak english". I asked if anyone in the store spoke english and she hung up on me. Oh well. I don't feel bad for not calling now. I'll just have to go up and show them on the piece of paper what I want...huang lian su.

[Nancy LC]

Lots of people think the English language is ugly sounding. Of course, you really need to have another language as your first language to make that judgment. I can't hear guttural sounds, just the words. Anyway, I wouldn't assume that someone remarking on the quality of the sound of the language was commenting on anything else. If I didn't like the sound of a saxophone that doesn't mean I don't like people who play the instrument. (I do like sax though!)

[eddiemcm]

Becky
I called the Bellaire shop 3-4 months ago to see if they
had huang lian su.The guy I talked to didn't have a clue
what it was.Maybe your luck will be better.
BTW I had much better luck with huang lian su that came
in 12 pills per bottle(12 bottles per box) as opposed to 100 per bottle..
Bye for now
Eddie

[soapluvr]

I won't be calling them again. I will drive up there and show them what it is written on paper ....huang lian su. I also want to go to a tea shop on bellaire that sells pu erh. I live thirty miles away down in Clear Lake.

I ordered from the place that you suggested which is in Canada but it's really too expensive. The pills themselves are a couple dollars more than the shop in San Diego and then the shipping is 20 dollars

[Cajunboy47]

The woman who owns the place on Corporate has a son in pharmacy school and his English is pretty good, but he's hardly ever in the shop. Her husband works there too, and I don't think he speaks any English and she barely speaks it. Most Chinese with limited English skills, from my experience, do better in person than on the phone with communicating in English.

Good luck....