ketones and exercise....??

[Sagehill]

While researching the dawn phenomenon, I came across the following quote on the Mayo Clinic site on hyperglycemia: "Exercise is often an effective way to lower blood sugar. But there's a caveat. If you have ketones in your urine, exercise can drive your blood sugar even higher."

I wonder if exercise is one aspect to what could be causing the dawn phenomenon?

Here's the link for the above quote: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hyperglycemia/DA00067

[Bru88]

I wonder if exercise is one aspect to what could be causing the dawn phenomenon?
I suffer from it. My take is we would have been great cave people, just think of the extra energy available to run away from those saber tooth tigers! Early morning energy supply! We would have survived! :lol: :lol: :lol: ...Bru

[Sagehill]

I suffer from it. My take is we would have been great cave people, just think of the extra energy available to run away from those saber tooth tigers! Early morning energy supply! We would have survived! :lol: :lol: :lol: ...BruLOL! Thanks for the great laugh, Bru!

[dancinbr]

Hello,

I don't know about this caveat.

Maybe it is true about ketones being a reason that exercise raises your blood sugar.

However, I will tell you that the guidelines for blood sugar levels are typcial for an ill informed medical society.

Check out Jenny's sight a bit on dawn phenomenom and also target ranges.

Here are my target ranges. Before eating I always expect my blood sugar levels to be below 100 preferably around 80-90.

One hour after I want my blood sugars to be no higher than 120-140 preferably around 120.

Two hours after eating I expect my blood sugars to be below 100 again.

Do these targets look familiar? Yes, they are the targets of a non-diabetic.

I do my best to emulate the profile of my blood sugars to closely correlate to a person who does not have diabetes.

Now, to do this I take Metformin ER 500-1000mg in the AM and in the PM. I say 500-1000mg since sometimes my "insulin sensitivity" seems to change and I become more sensitive. Lately, I have had to back off on my dosage since I am more insulin sensitive. I am doing my walk of 30 minutes once a day and that is a tremendous help.

Also, as a T2 I decided to go with insulin rather than some of the medications offered such as Januvia, etc. Why did I do this? Well, I wasn't getting my blood sugars below 100 like I wanted to so I went with insulin. Again, my morning dosage runs from 28 to 42 units based on my sensitiviy and the same for my evening dose of basal insulin. I use Levemir.

Also, I do my best to keep my carbs low; definitely under 100 and usually between 30-60. I have not been doing a good job keeping my carbs below 60 lately. What I have found if I start off with a low Blood sugar reading (< 100) before I eat I can consume 20-30 gms of carbs at a meal and stay within the 120-140 range one hour after and around 100 or less two hours after and I use minimal amounts of fast insulin Novolog or none at all.

If I know I am going to have more than 20-30 gms of carbs at a meal then I use more Novolog so I keep my upper numbers below 140.

Sometimes I overshoot since I sometimes indulge more than I should. So, if I find my numbers over 140 after two hours post meal, I then take another novolog fast insulin injection to bring my numbers back down to 100 or less.

When I am behaving real well (i.e. carbs between 30-60) for several days, my numbers stay in range and my morning numbers even go lower.

Anything over 140 can do damage to your vital organs such as liver, eyes, feet, etc., etc., again spend some time looking up Jenny's site and read some of the material she has presented to all of us.

Here is Jenny's site URL http://www.phlaunt.com/lowcarb . However, for some reason this morning it wasn't responding. Check it later.

I hope I helped.

My biggest issue and it is MY issue I haven't focused on dropping my weight. That improves everything.

But I will try and try again.

Ralph

[Cajunboy47]

Diabetes is a metabolic disorder. Here is my thinking about Dawn Phenomena.... I'm speaking as a type 2 to type 2s' on this and don't know about how this works with type 1s.....

When we first control diabetes, it is done mostly with medications and/or insulin. Medications and/or insulin, while allowing us to gain control on our diabetes, do nothing for improving our metabolism.

As we accomplish the things that improve metabolism, we lose the dawn phenomena. I've experienced this. Also, as we stop doing the things to improve the metabolism, the dawn phenomena returns. I've experienced this also....

My focus is improving metabolism, not trying to do things to eliminate dawn phenomena. I think that not exercising out of a concern of dawn pheomena is a big roadblock on getting improvement of metabolism.

[RobLL]

Ralph - losing weight may help, but in my case my natural metabolism declined before my very eyes, even as I lost weight. It is all in my notebook. And as for exercise - it is an essential part of my weight control (contra Taubes - whom I otherwise admire), but unless I do hours no BG drop. Half an hour of light, med, or strenous exercise I always go up. I just bolus for it.

[J-lo carb]

Everyone's body reacts to too many ketones by producing insulin. It's how people without diabetes control the ketones. Too many ketones leads to ketoacidosis in type one diabetics because they cannot produce insulin to regulate the ketones.

When you exercise, your body produces ketones to use as energy in the process, so of course you have more of them than you do when you're sitting on the couch. This doesn't hurt anything unless you can't produce the insulin to deal with it.

[Dodger]

The Mayo article is talking about ketones being present due to diabetic ketoacidosis. The same blood sugar raising effect is most likely not seem with ketones from low-carbing.

[mmmVeggies]

Dodger, I agree. My blood sugar is ALWAYS lower when I am exercising daily.

[Sagehill]

Okay, that makes sense the way the article as I read it didn't...I hadn't thought they were referring to Type I's.

thanks!

[januaria]

Dodger, I agree. My blood sugar is ALWAYS lower when I am exercising daily.
I am amazed at how well exercise lowers my BG naturally - and quickly, even five minutes on the treadmill while the kettle is boiling helps. I moved my treadmill into my kitchen so that I can use those moments while food is cooking for exercise, to increase my daily step count. It worked.

I chose insulin and metformin (levemir and rapid) to keep my BG down, but when I added exercise, I don't need the bolus at all. I have reduced my insulin to 15 morning and 20 evening. If I don't eat before bed, my morning BG is normal.

I have a long, long way to go; I want to drastically reduce my dependence on medication or even elimiate it if possible - which it may not be - but I am going to try.

I've led a sedentary life; had I been the sort that naturally takes to exercise and healthy eating, I wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. Sometimes I have to force myself to do it, but the payoff is not having to jab myself with another needle and not creating bigger fat cells.

Making lifestyle changes is very difficult for most people and I am no exception, but once I saw, by tracking the testing, activity, insulin intake, BG values and food, how dramatically exercise helps, it motivated me to slowly increase movement day by day. I do a combination of moderate resistance and aerobic, and this is working for me.

It's amazing; I may soon have to reduce or eliminate metformin or use less insulin. I cannot recommend it highly enough.