Back pain

[Vila]

Hello everyone!
Wish my first post could be a tad different...:(

I've been on Atkins for 6 weeks and I've lost a nice amount of pounds and cm.
Before starting Atkins, I was addicted to sugar, candy and the like.
(Mainreason why Im overweight is because of eating too much candy.)
So most of the carbs I would get would be from candy, sodas, bread and etc.

When I started induction, the first 2 weeks were horrible. I had muscle aches EVERYWHERE and I had troubles sleeping because of it.
(not to mention induction flu, when I felt feverish.) Thankfully that is now over.
But now, instead of having muscle aches, I have back pain + my back feels very, very tired. I drink 2L of water everyday, so it can't be the water...

Last year I had lots of bloodtests done to me and they were all fine, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with my health, except being overweight and not exercising much.
Never had backpain before either, so the one Im experiencing now is DEFINITELY caused by this diet and I want to know what I can do to get rid of it! I don't want to stop doing this diet, because it's the first one in my life that works for me! :cool: The tiredness is felt in the whole back and the 'pain' (because it feels like very, very sore muscles) changes location. Sometimes it's in the upper-back, sometimes lower and middle. Depends. Of course my first worry is my kidneys, but I've never had any problems with them and haven't had kidney stones in my life either!

I eat about 800-900calories per day, but I don't live in hunger.
3 meals a day and sometimes a snack of pistachios or some nuts.

Here's an example of what I ate today;
Morning; Bacon with 2 eggs and a tablespoon of butter.
"Lunch": Nuts. (was busy today)
Dinner: Chicken (90g~?) with cottage cheese + tbsp of butter.
And for the evening Im planning on eating one more tbsp of butter on top of crackerbread with only 0.1g of sugar and salami.

Also, I take multivitamins, c-vitamin & magnesium.

Could it be that this backpain is caused by low amounts of carbs? I eat 2-5 carbs per day and Im trying desperately to get them to 10-20carbs.
Im trying to move in to OWL aswell, because I've been experiencing a lot of problems when exercising too. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. I get too tired too quickly and this shows especially when Im using my crosstrainer. I can only train for 1 minute and after that Im done. :(

(I dislike veggies, but I still eat them when I can...But getting 20 carbs from sallads and tomato etc is IMPOSSIBLE for me. How do you guys do it??)

[Nancy LC]

Well, my comment is one I know you know I'm going to make. Where's the veggies? You might be missing out on minerals you could be getting from the veggies, like potassium, that might make your muscles feel better.

Try some steamed broccoli with butter and lemon juice. Or half an avocado, or spinach with Parmesan and butter.

The veggies will give you a little more glycogen to work with when you're exercising too.

[mike_d]

I eat about 800-900calories per day, but I don't live in hunger.
I would starve if I went that low in calories. Have you read the Atkins book(s)?

I would try adding more fats from pork, beef, fish and foods like avocado, spinach or mushrooms fried in butter. Low potassium can also cause muscle pain.

[Vila]

Well, my comment is one I know you know I'm going to make. Where's the veggies? You might be missing out on minerals you could be getting from the veggies, like potassium, that might make your muscles feel better.

Try some steamed broccoli with butter and lemon juice. Or half an avocado, or spinach with Parmesan and butter.

The veggies will give you a little more glycogen to work with when you're exercising too.

No veggies today. :D
On sunday I eat lots of broccoli tho, but I still can't eat it enough to the point of getting 20g of carbs. Can anyone?

Mike_d:

Yeah, but Im not starving! I eat until Im full, like the atkins book says.
So yeah, I have readed the book many, many times. :)

I eat quite a lot of mushrooms too + avocados...Just not everyday. :/

About potassium; I'll ty eating more stuff with it. But the low amount of carbs could not be it?

[2bthinner!]

Avocado are LOADED with potassium...just FYI :thup:

[Hutchinson]

I take multivitamins, c-vitamin & magnesium. You will NOT be getting sufficient Vitamin D3

Could it be that this backpain is caused by low amounts of carbs?Far more likely to be the result of low vitamin D3 status. (http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/researchChronicPain.shtml)
Use of Vitamin D3 in Clinical practice (http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/13/1/6.pdf) provides full details of how to correct Vitamin D3 insufficiency. But alternating one of these daily with 2 daily for 8 weeks followed by one daily ad infinitum (https://secure.bio-tech-pharm.com/detail.aspx?product_id=18&cat_id=2&subcat_id=0) is absolutely safe (the proposed safe upper limit being 10,000iu/daily) and you should see improvement in about a month though you will go on seeing significant improvement for the next 3 months and this will continue for about a year before all the backlog of Vitamin D insufficiency symptoms will be resolved. You may find a 25(OH)D test after 3 months will help you decide if you need to raise or lower that daily amount. Ideally 50-60 ng or 125-150nmol/l is the target to aim for. Roughly speaking each 100iu/daily/D3 raises 1ng or 2.5 nmol/l so whatever your 25(OH)D score is you should be able to adjust (by taking more or less 5000iu each week) the overall average weekly input to suit.

You don't appear to be getting sufficient omega 3 either. See what Dr Davis has to say and consider taking 2g daily. (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Fish%20oil)

[chandbaby1]

vitamin D,
Magnesium, calcium , pottassium,
good multi vitamin tablet,
:thup:

[JLx]

Check your current vitamins and make sure the magnesium is not oxide as it's been shown to be only 5% absorbable. Better forms are magnesium taurate, magnesium glycinate, magnesium orotate, magnesium malate and magnesium citrate.

[mike_d]

Check your current vitamins and make sure the magnesium is not oxide as it's been shown to be only 5% absorbable. Better forms are magnesium taurate, magnesium glycinate, magnesium orotate, magnesium malate and magnesium citrate.Mag Oxide is a good laxative. That reminds me I need to take mine.

[Hutchinson]

vitamin D,
Magnesium, calcium , pottassium,
good multi vitamin tablet,
:thup:I hope you weren't implying that the amounts of Vit d magnesium calcium and potassium are sufficient.
I'm not sure that when Vitamin d3 status has been raised to 125nmol/l 50ng or possibly 60ng 150nmol/l that calcium supplement would be needed. Once your 25(OH)D is above 88nmol/l you can be pretty sure you are absorbing the maximum amount of calcium from your food sources and once you are over 125nmol/l you can be certain this is happening. Therefore I doubt supplemental calcium will add any more.

See Dr Davis Heartscanblog for “How much vitamin D should I take?” (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/how-much-vitamin-d-should-i-take.html)

I agree with JLx about choosing an effective form of magnesium. I could add magnesium aspartate to that list of better forms. 600mg a day is recommended by Dr McCleary in his book The Brain Trust Program (http://www.drmccleary.com/books.html).

[JLx]

Magnesium is recommended by the Eades in PPLP as well. They have a whole chapter on it.

I had no idea that I was deficient, because I ate peanuts and other mag rich food and was taking a multi. I thought I had things covered with that 400 mg of mg oxide. When I supplemented with magnesium glycinate a few years back, I immediately went off my antidepressants which weren't working anyway, my itchy skin cleared up overnight and my thyroid symptoms also normalized in a few months. Magnesium deficiency manifests in such varied conditions because it is involved in 300+ enzymatic functions in the body.

Magnesium aspartate may be contraindicated for someone with problems of depression, btw. Along with magnesium glutamate.

I like this nutritionist's page on magnesium. Good info and concise: http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html

[Hutchinson]

I like this nutritionist's page on magnesium. Good info and concise: http://www.krispin.com/magnes.htmlExcellent link, well worth reading.
In the same way Vitamin D status affects the absorption and control of calcium, it also has a similar role in the magnesium story. There is a complicated counterbalancing effect of Vit d/calcium/magnesium via parathyroid hormone that is too complicated for me to detail (or perhaps even fully understand)

[Vila]

I've started using fishoil with omega and vitamin d today.
I will continue using it till the whole bottle is gone.

Yesterday I didn't have much backpain, but today it's back again and a tad worse. Im feeling the pain in my rib-area in the middle of my back and it kinda radiates down.

Where I live only one person out of ten have kidneystones and the like...So Im still very doubtful that I have any, but Im getting really, really worried. Im gonna try force those veggies down more often, but I doubt it will help anything.

So worried. :'(

[JLx]

I've had a kidney stone -- calcium oxalate type. This was back in the day when I was supplementing calcium, when I erroneously thought I was getting enough magnesium. I have not had one since I quit the calcium supps and now that I take a fair amount of magnesium, I feel quite confident I will not get another even though statistically that probability is supposed to be quite high.

My kidney stone pain was not quite what I expected, both the ice pick feeling in the general kidney area but pain radiating out too. Initially I went into the ER because I was also throwing up and just felt so awful I was afraid it wasn't a kidney stone. I think you could expect to have some pain in the kidney area, however.

Could it be muscle spasms?

[chandbaby1]

I hope you weren't implying that the amounts of Vit d magnesium calcium and potassium are sufficient.
I'm not sure that when Vitamin d3 status has been raised to 125nmol/l 50ng or possibly 60ng 150nmol/l that calcium supplement would be needed. Once your 25(OH)D is above 88nmol/l you can be pretty sure you are absorbing the maximum amount of calcium from your food sources and once you are over 125nmol/l you can be certain this is happening. Therefore I doubt supplemental calcium will add any more.

See Dr Davis Heartscanblog for “How much vitamin D should I take?”

I agree with JLx about choosing an effective form of magnesium. I could add magnesium aspartate to that list of better forms. 600mg a day is recommended by Dr McCleary in his book The Brain Trust Program.


I was merely mentioning all the things she could try. vitamin D status cannot be built overnight. I was severely magnesium deficient and with supplements could get it to a low normal level and no matter how much i took it wouldnt climb up. I think vitamin d will help here with absorption and take it to higher levels.

But taking minerals along with vitamin d is needed in the beginning because it takes a lot of time to build correct body chemistry

[Nancy LC]

Oh right, I forgot how calcium supplements are associated with kidney stones.

[Hutchinson]

I was merely mentioning all the things she could try. vitamin D status cannot be built overnight. I understand I was simply trying to make it absolutely clear that the good multivit was in addition to and not alternative to the other items mentioned. I was afraid some other reader may think that one multivit/mineral including Vit d, mag, pot and calcium in the mix would do it all in one capsule. It won't because the standard Vit d contained in a multivit is probably only 200iu and that does diddly squat as it can only raise status 1ng or 5nmol/l Average UK adult status is 50nmol/l even to get to 80nmol/l requires about 1500iu/daily (10 times as much as is a multivit) and to get to 125-150 will probably require the average UK adult to take more than 4000iu daily.

[chandbaby1]

you are right.I have to get myself tested. I am taking about 6000iu myself since I was in asia most of my life where there was plenty of sun, coming to the new england area we hardly have as much sun and i hardly have enough time to go in the sun in the afternoon.

[jschwab]

I have had back pain from the adjustment to weight loss. I had to have chiro treatments to help with it. I literally felt like my ribs were shrinking and my shoulders were falling in on themselves.

[MauraV]

I had a full workup from my naturopath and my vitamin D level was so low it was not measurable by the lab. She has me on a pretty large dose for a while to try to build up the stores in my body before I go to a maintenance dose.

[chandbaby1]

how much is your level and how much vitamin d are you taking?

[Hutchinson]

I had a full workup from my naturopath and my vitamin D level was so low it was not measurable by the lab. She has me on a pretty large dose for a while to try to build up the stores in my body before I go to a maintenance dose.My question would be "What form of Vitamin d was prescribed?"
The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin supplement (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/84/4/694) sets out the reasons why Cholecaldiferol (https://secure.bio-tech-pharm.com/catalog.aspx?cat_id=2) is the more effective more reliable form that should be used]

[soule72]

I also know people can experience back pain to weight loss. If this is the case it usually subsides. but getting checked by a dr. to be sure might be a good idea.

[Vila]

soule72, yeah that's what I think this could be...But of course, I can't be sure.

My backpain got better when I started taking back-pain medications, which points to the pain being muscle-related.
Now Im off them and I've found out that it's my sport-BRA that causes my upper-back pain!!! I HAVE NOT gained weight nor cm, so I don't understand how this is possible!

Im going to my doctor next month, so until then...

[Lickrish]

Prior to weight loss I had bad knees that would go out a lot. I had knee issues since a teen, thats only happened once since the weight loss BUT now I also have the back pain. I figured it was diet related as well as our couch. My husband also has bad back pain he actually had his checked and he has a hairline crack alittle below his waist. I sit with a pillow behind my back it's the only thing that lessens the pain. Mine is all lower back pain.

I really need to read up on what supplements to take. I see people mention Vitamin D I only take a multivitamin, fish oil/borage/flax oil combo and iron (anemic).

[Hutchinson]

The evidence that low vitamin d status is associated with chronic pain (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18697776) is growing.
The cost of effective strength D3 is minimal. (https://secure.bio-tech-pharm.com/detail.aspx?product_id=18&cat_id=2&subcat_id=0)

You probably do not take sufficient FISH OIL (http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/you-probably-dont-take-enough-fish-oil.html)