The Myth of Lean Meat

[capmikee]

I was in a bookstore the other day and I picked up a book by Jordan Rubin. He repeated the old adage about how primitive people lived on fruits, seeds, tubers and "lean meat." Then, just a page later, he talked about how surviving hunter-gatherer societies go out of their way to get lots of animal fat.

Where does this "lean meat" idea come from? What does it mean? Why do people repeat it so much? As far as I know, lean meat was positively shunned by primitive people. Eating extremely lean meat can lead to a deadly form of malnutrition called "rabbit starvation." Am I missing something?

[Nancy LC]

I don't think you're off base at all. I don't think anyone here buys into the lean meat thing.

[SSmith28]

We should start a save the Rabbits from Starvation coalition. hahahahaha Sorry.

[capmikee]

Give that rabbit more cookies!

[M Levac]

Fat phobia. Driven by the intent to profit from it. Skim milk is the same price as whole milk yet we pay for the cream taken from the whole milk to make it skim milk. Fat is bad for you so eat carbohydrates they're good for you so you get fat, sick, weak and stupid, all conditions that are needed to drive the carbohydrates economy. Eat carbs to make us rich. And so we do. And so they become rich.

Count the corporations that profit from eating carbs.

The first one is the medical profession. Count the specialties that take care of the fat in various ways. Of the sick in various ways. Of the stupid in various ways. Then there's the fitness industry. The diet industry. The food industry. The supplement industry. The gadgets industry. The TV/radio/media industry. The transport industry. The travel/holiday industry. The clothes industry. The insurance industry. The law industry. The prison industry. The education industry. The war industry.

There is not one aspect of our lives that is not subject to the effects of eating carbohydrates. As such, we can profit from this fat phobia easily even if we're fat, sick, weak and stupid.

Or maybe we're just gullible.

[TheCaveman]

Where does this "lean meat" idea come from? What does it mean? Why do people repeat it so much? As far as I know, lean meat was positively shunned by primitive people. Eating extremely lean meat can lead to a deadly form of malnutrition called "rabbit starvation." Am I missing something?

You might want to read Cordain; he explains it all.

Briefly: There are not many sources of lean meat these days, if you're buying at the supermarket. Wild animals--for most of the year--have very little fat in their muscles (meat), and so primitive people had to worry about that kind of thing. We do not. Cordain explains that eating even the leanest of farmed meat will prevent rabbit starvation.

You're not expecting accurate anthropological accounts from The Maker's Diet, are you?

[jono]

TheCaveman,

What do you think is a good caveman style caloric ratio of fat/protein/carbs?

[capmikee]

I don't really know anything about The Maker's Diet, just curious so I was flipping through the book.

My impression is that primitive people hunted animals when they were at their fattest, and ate the organs, not just the muscle meat. But my information comes from Weston Price/Sally Fallon, not Cordain.

[TheCaveman]

TheCaveman,

What do you think is a good caveman style caloric ratio of fat/protein/carbs?

For July and August: asmuchasyoulike/asmuchasyoulike/asmuchasyoulike

For September through June: asmuchasyoulike/asmuchasyoulike/none

Sorry, not a big fan of calorie counting.

[rakbs]

I don't really know anything about The Maker's Diet, just curious so I was flipping through the book.

My impression is that primitive people hunted animals when they were at their fattest, and ate the organs, not just the muscle meat. But my information comes from Weston Price/Sally Fallon, not Cordain.

Yeah, and additionally, primitive people would have actually thrown away the muscle meat in times of plentiful organ meat.

[rozi]

Yeah, and additionally, primitive people would have actually thrown away the muscle meat in times of plentiful organ meat.

;) Actually I think they threw it to their dogs. :agree:

[anyway...]

Briefly: There are not many sources of lean meat these days, if you're buying at the supermarket. Wild animals--for most of the year--have very little fat in their muscles (meat), and so primitive people had to worry about that kind of thing. We do not. Cordain explains that eating even the leanest of farmed meat will prevent rabbit starvation.

I'm not really so sure I can believe Cordain's views on fat after this:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=372626

[MeatGood]

I think the whole low fat is a simplified view of things that is perpetuated by the uneducated masses. It’s a simple concept, fat = fat right, you eat fat, you get fat. We all know better, but try telling that to people that like things simple, and well the media says it is so, so it must be. It is easy to understand and easy to accept, but as we learn more we realize that easy does not always equal right.
I believe that even in the medical community, an acceptance of simple concepts happens, and can more easily be explained to outside groups that provide funding.

I think if you give up fruit and vegetables, completely and only eat meat, the fat is necessary and eating it raw is necessary too.
I believe if you continue to eat vegetables, fruits, nuts, and meat, then you don’t require as much fat, but some fat is still important, especially if you want to maintain your weight.

Now if you want to lose weight the fastest, I believe a Paleo diet, taking the lean meat route is probably the fastest way to lose weight. But, I personally would add the fat back in, once I hit my weight goal.

All in all, I think you have to decide what your goal is, optimal health, or weight loss.

This is all just my 2 cents, and I could be 100% wrong. Though I can’t imagine eating Twinkies and Pixie Sticks, would provide a great amount of health or weight loss.

[capmikee]

For July and August: asmuchasyoulike/asmuchasyoulike/asmuchasyoulike

For September through June: asmuchasyoulike/asmuchasyoulike/none

Actually, my favorite carbs come out in June. I'd happily skip July and August for my June berries, mulberries, strawberries, blueberries and sour cherries. But maybe these are post-Ice-Age treats...?

[capmikee]

Now if you want to lose weight the fastest, I believe a Paleo diet, taking the lean meat route is probably the fastest way to lose weight. But, I personally would add the fat back in, once I hit my weight goal.
Maybe it depends on the person. For me, eating fat is an essential part of weight loss. If I eat too much protein my body turns it to glucose and I start gaining. I heard recently that it's fat that suppresses the production of ghrelin, the "hunger hormone."

I've also heard that the confusion about fat is because it's very bad in combination with carbs. But I've never understood that idea because it sounds like the carbs without the fat are just as bad!

I understand the need for simple concepts. Here's a simple concept that I'd like to see more widely accepted:

Animal fat is good for you!

[Baerdric]

I've also heard that the confusion about fat is because it's very bad in combination with carbs. But I've never understood that idea because it sounds like the carbs without the fat are just as bad!You need both glucose (carb) and fatty acids to make triclycerides in fat storage. You need the fatty acids, but you don't really need that much dietary carbohydrate. So if you had to do without one of them...

Animal fat is good for you!That sounds like a quote for my list!

[5280Gal]

When I was reading Cordain's book I remember thinking if he used the words lean meat one more time I was going to ralph. What a sell out. I know it's not easy to get a book published if you're not following the party line but I think he should've tried a little harder, particularly since he had so many other good things to say.

Animal fat is good for you!
I was trying to explain this to some good friends last night (admittedly it was after a couple glasses of wine so maybe I wasn't my normal articulate self). They looked at me like I had lost my mind. (OK maybe I have but it doesn't mean I'm not right about this :lol: ) Saturated fat is bad for you is the lie that has been told so many times it's rarely if ever questioned. It is completely interwoven in the fabric of our society, hence the rampant health problems for the general population.

[MeatGood]

Maybe it depends on the person. For me, eating fat is an essential part of weight loss. If I eat too much protein my body turns it to glucose and I start gaining. I heard recently that it's fat that suppresses the production of ghrelin, the "hunger hormone."

I did not mean to imply cut out all the fats all together, but figured if I intended to burn the fat stores in my body faster, I could lower the amounts of carbs and fats I intake.
Since most of us are already low carb, we then just have to experiment with increasing or decreasing our fat intake to optimize weight loss. Like you said, each person is slightly different. But if the goal is weight loss and we wish to lose it faster than we are currently losing it at, then we can experience by lowering the fat intake some to see if it will speed up the weight loss or slow it down, then adjust accordingly.
I am kind of betting that most of the time, if we have been enjoying a high fat diet, that a slight decrease in fat intake may very well speed up weight loss.
Just like increasing fat intake once we reach our goals can stabilize the weight loss and bring us back to a balance of zero loss zero gain.

I am not saying I agree with a low fat diet, for optimal health, I am only talking about sometimes lowering the fat, to help with faster weight loss.

But, you are also right on one other thing; you may very well feel hungrier sooner with less fat intake. I know I did. But my consistent weight loss told me that I didn’t go into starvation mode. I just ate more often.

Hope this better explains what I was trying to say.