Great Article in Men's Health on Low Carbing/Cure for Diabetes!

[Phrogg27]

I have a friend with Diabetes that recently 'cured' herself by doing this. I loved this article!
http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=health&category=other.diseases.ailments&conitem=4a935e4e40fae010VgnVCM20000012281eac____&page=2

[Charran]

While it is true that eating a LC diet can control diabetes, it is wrong to assume that it will cure it.

[Baerdric]

Especially if one does not distinguish between type one and type two. I suspect we will see some "cures" of T2 by diet (meaning it will become undetectable), but I don't think the same applies for T1

[LessLiz]

If "cure" means a normal profile for a Glucose Tolerance Test then a long term low carb diet can cure some Type Ii diabetics.

[Baerdric]

I think, to me, a cure would mean being able to return to a fairly normal but not SAD diet without consequence. I use quotes around "cure" because I am assuming that even then, returning to a high carb diet will more quickly undo that healing than it took to cause it in the first place.

[Citruskiss]

That's one of the articles I sent to my diabetic uncle, who has been struggling with his diabetes - tons of different meds, blood sugar problems and so on. Still following the 1980's style Diabetic Diet. Asked his diabetes specialist doctor for a new diet, she said, "Oh, no you're fine" and prescribed even more meds.

Ahem...

But - woo hoo. I've finally gotten through to my uncle with this 'low-carb helps diabetes' deal.

He's off six different medications already - and has lost ten pounds!!

I think this article is what helped me 'convince' him. So yeah, keep posting it here and there.

[M Levac]

If the cause of the disease is the SAD, then a VLC diet would constitute the cure. In other words, whatever the SAD did, the VLC diet can reverse. If not completely maybe because of extensive damage, at least sufficiently to return to normal activities. Also, just like the SAD took time to do its damage, the VLC diet needs time to do its reversal and then the body needs time to heal.

[LessLiz]

Oh, I like Baerdric's definition of cure. You know, cure isn't possible under that definition but using it as a standard for determining whether a person is Type II would mean that about 75% of the population *is* Type II when you combine that with Eades' interpretation of GTT results. See, you are Type II even when you are not.

The ADA would love it -- imagine speaking for 75% of the population!

[Baerdric]

That would be a dream come true for them.

[Nancy LC]

Cure is like curing cancer. It is gone and won't return if it is cured. Compare that to celiac disease, where you're permanently sensitive to gluten. Does not eating gluten cure celiac disease? No, it is a treatment. When you stop following the treatment, the disease will return in full force. The symptoms might be in abeyance but the disease is still there.

Treating insulin resistance or T2 diabetes is a treatment. Just like following a gluten free diet isn't a cure for celiac disease, it is a treatment. You stop the treatment and the beneficial effects go away.

[Baerdric]

Treating insulin resistance or T2 diabetes is a treatment. Just like following a gluten free diet isn't a cure for celiac disease, it is a treatment. You stop the treatment and the beneficial effects go away.That may be, but I don't think we have any way of knowing if it's absolutely true yet. When we have a few million people on LC with Doctor's approval, and they get GT tested 20 years later - then we will know. Maybe.

[M Levac]

Cure is like curing cancer. It is gone and won't return if it is cured. Compare that to celiac disease, where you're permanently sensitive to gluten. Does not eating gluten cure celiac disease? No, it is a treatment. When you stop following the treatment, the disease will return in full force. The symptoms might be in abeyance but the disease is still there.

Treating insulin resistance or T2 diabetes is a treatment. Just like following a gluten free diet isn't a cure for celiac disease, it is a treatment. You stop the treatment and the beneficial effects go away.

I don't think it's a disease. Instead, I think it's an intoxication (not in the sense of euphoric bliss but in the sense of toxic poisoning). Diabetes T2 is the consequence of glucose poisoning. In other words, there are many afflictions that we see as diseases which are really consequences of glucose intoxication. I see glucose as toxic in any quantity above the normal blood level. Indeed, as far as I know, the toxicity of any substance is a function of its quantity.

[lowcarbUgh]

T2 can become a permanent disease that won't go into remission if your beta cells are damaged. That happens quite often in long-standing type 2 diabetes. And I seriously doubt that millions of people will adopt this WOE just because their doctors want them to. Diabetic compliance is very low. There are a lot of people who probably wouldn't find low carb appealing. Moderate carb, maybe, something along the lines of South Beach maintenance.

[Baerdric]

T2 can become a permanent disease that won't go into remission if your beta cells are damaged. Well that's a chance, especially if they keep trying the wrong thing.

Diabetic compliance is very low.I know I don't "comply" with the wrong methods that my doctor wants me to follow. But if she was giving me better data, I would be more in compliance. We cannot judge the compliance of people who are being told to eat a bunch of carbs, then fight off the cravings that will cause.

[lowcarbUgh]

All I can say is over the years, I've recommended Bernstein's book, talked about low carb benefits, weight loss, better health and A1cs under 5 and you know how many of my diabetic friends and acquaintances ever did anything with this info? Zero.

It's a real struggle for me to stay on plan and I'm very highly motivated.

[Baerdric]

All I can say is over the years, I've recommended Bernstein's book, talked about low carb benefits, weight loss, better health and A1cs under 5 and you know how many of my diabetic friends and acquaintances ever did anything with this info? Zero. But their doctors are telling them something else, and so is most of our culture.

It's a real struggle for me to stay on plan and I'm very highly motivated.Perhaps because your doctor and most of our culture are against you?

But what plan are you on that is giving you so much difficulty? I know you are T1, and that's different, and on Bernstein, sort of, but isn't it low carb? I noticed earlier that you talked about a complicated plan that required a lot of discipline, maybe someone listening to you would want to avoid that and trust their doctor?

I'm supposed to be T2, but my new doctor couldn't find it when I was just on a fairly casual low carb diet.

[lowcarbUgh]

But their doctors are telling them something else, and so is most of our culture.

They don't do the ADA diet either. They basically do nothing except switch from the real thing to Diet Coke. And they take the pills because that is easy.

Perhaps because your doctor and most of our culture are against you?

My doctor lets me do what i want to do as I've been doing it for so long with good results. I find low carbing for 3 years very limiting and all meat, all the time, very unappealing. I miss fruit and grains and I lose my appetite and can go days without eating anything if I don't force myself.

But what plan are you on that is giving you so much difficulty? I know you are T1, and that's different, and on Bernstein, sort of, but isn't it low carb? I noticed earlier that you talked about a complicated plan that required a lot of discipline, maybe someone listening to you would want to avoid that and trust their doctor?

A type 2 can do Atkins. I don't tell them the part about all the discipline, but once they hear they have to give up things, they don't want to do that. I'm on Bernstein and don't do it exactly the way he advises. I used to pump and I know how to think like a pancreas.

I think low carbing relieves the carb addicts addiction and to some degree, pain, and perhaps even depression. For for the non addict, I think you reach a point where you go "Ugh! I will never eat another piece of chicken as long as I live." We just don't get whatever it is that people find appealing about this WOE. It becomes a chore to simply eat all the grams of this and that I know i need.

At some point, I am going to expand and go more South Beach than VLC. It appeals to my innate sense of what I ike to eat a lot more than all the meat.

I'm supposed to be T2, but my new doctor couldn't find it when I was just on a fairly casual low carb diet.

It appears that this WOE suits you well. :)

[Baerdric]

They don't do the ADA diet either. Well yeah, that's the point. They can't do what the ADA (through their doctor) tells them to, because they get fat, have poor control and suffer cravings. But they also can't do what you tell them because you are not the authority that their Doctor/culture is to them. But if their doctor agreed with you, and our culture didn't bombard them with conflicting and well targeted hypno-commercials, then maybe there would be a little more compliance.

[LessLiz]

Cure is like curing cancer. It is gone and won't return if it is cured.Then one can only be considered cured after death because one can never know if it will come back.

I've had normal GTTs somewhere between 7 and 9 years -- I'd have to check. Type II is diagnosed by GTT. A person with a normal GTT does not have Type II diabetes. *Any* person with a normal GTT may have one in the future that is abnormal. Does that mean that someone who eventually does have an abnormal result was always a Type II diabetic?

Cancer is a bit different, mostly because of the fact that 10 or 20 or 100 or 200 cancer cells can survive and not be found by any tests, which ultimately cause a recurrence. It's not like one can have 10 or 20 diabetes cells hanging out to multiply and manifest.

I think the once a Type II always a Type II springs from the same source as fat is bad, carbs are good -- everyone knows it's true.

[lowcarbUgh]

Well yeah, that's the point. They can't do what the ADA (through their doctor) tells them to, because they get fat, have poor control and suffer cravings. But they also can't do what you tell them because you are not the authority that their Doctor/culture is to them. But if their doctor agreed with you, and our culture didn't bombard them with conflicting and well targeted hypno-commercials, then maybe there would be a little more compliance.

Most of them are fat and eat Pizza Hut and KFC and they don't care. Type 2 is a middle-age disease and often an asymptomatic disease. I know one woman I can't even convince to give up sugared soda because she doesn't like the way the artificial sweetened kind tastes. They're fat and happy, the children are grown, they're settled, and they won't change until they suffer some complication. That's what I've found from talking to people for years about diabetes.

They also don't want to be different from their friends and family. It's going to take a larger societal change to change eating habits, even when faced with medical disapproval. Baby steps first.

[Gypsybyrd]

I've had normal GTTs somewhere between 7 and 9 years -- I'd have to check. Type II is diagnosed by GTT. A person with a normal GTT does not have Type II diabetes. *Any* person with a normal GTT may have one in the future that is abnormal. Does that mean that someone who eventually does have an abnormal result was always a Type II diabetic?

...

I think the once a Type II always a Type II springs from the same source as fat is bad, carbs are good -- everyone knows it's true.

A cyclical question I've been wondering about. I've never undergone a GTT. Not sure I ever will - especially if I have to carb-up for 3-4 days before the test for it to be accurate. But also - because I believe LC eating can reverse the symptoms and (at least some of) the damage caused by HC eating/diabetes - I don't want to risk having it be positive and then be stuck with that in my medical record and possibly affect future health insurance decisions. Maybe I'll change my mind if I ever forgo LC eating permanently and I start showing symptoms that don't go away with a change in WOE. But I'm not a person to take meds. Ok I'm rambling. My point was: is a person diagnosed with Type 2 still Type 2 if a future GTT comes back 'normal'? I don't know that we'll ever get an accurate answer.


Type 2 is a middle-age disease and often an asymptomatic disease.

Haven't I seen 'reports' (I use the term loosely given the tendencies of our media) that Type 2 is showing up in younger and younger people? I also wonder, remember I've only just become interested in the topic of diabetes, if it really is asymptomatic or if the symptoms are so mild that people don't realize it's a symptom (i.e., a slow healing bruise or cut).

*shrugs* just my thoughts ...