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kyrasdad
Sat, Jun-07-08, 09:16
Tight Rein on Blood Sugar Has No Heart Benefits (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/health/research/07diabetes.html?ref=health)

By GINA KOLATA

Two large studies involving more than 21,000 people found that people with Type 2 diabetes had no reduction in their risk of heart attacks and strokes and no reduction in their death rate if they rigorously controlled their blood sugar levels.

The results provide more details and bolster findings reported in February, when one of the studies, by the National Institutes of Health, ended prematurely. At that time, researchers surprised diabetes experts with the announcement that study participants who were rigorously controlling their blood sugar actually had a higher death rate than those whose blood sugar control was less stringent.

Now the federal researchers are publishing detailed data from that study for the first time. Researchers in the second study, from Australia and involving participants from 20 countries, are also publishing their results on blood sugar and cardiovascular disease. That study did not find an increase in deaths, but neither did it find any protection from cardiovascular disease with rigorous blood sugar control.

Thus both studies failed to confirm a dearly held hypothesis that people with Type 2 diabetes could be protected from cardiovascular disease if they strictly controlled their blood sugar.

It was a hypothesis that seemed almost obvious. Cardiovascular disease accounts for 65 percent of deaths among people with Type 2 diabetes. And since diabetes is characterized by high levels of blood sugar, the hope was that if people with diabetes could just get their blood sugar as close to normal as possible, their cardiovascular disease rate would be nearly normal as well.

The two studies were presented Friday in San Francisco at the annual meeting of the American Diabetes Association and will be published next week in The New England Journal of Medicine. The Journal lifted its embargoes to coincide with the presentations at the meeting. A third study, similar but smaller, by the Department of Veterans Affairs, will be presented at the meeting on Sunday.

Diabetes researchers say that the message is that patients should obtain at least moderate control of blood sugar to protect against eye, kidney and nerve disease. But for heart disease, they say, the only proven method of preventing complications is to give statins to control cholesterol, drugs to control blood pressure and aspirin to control blood clotting, and encourage people to lose weight and exercise.

The Australian study did find one advantage to strict blood sugar control — a slight reduction in new or worsening kidney disease. The rate among those with intense sugar control was 4.1 percent as compared with 5.2 percent among those with less intense control.

But researchers disagreed about whether the kidney disease effect in the Australian study was enough to advise patients to strive for rigorous blood sugar control. The Australian investigators said it was.

Others were not so sure. The kidney effect was “a modest benefit,” said Dr. David Nathan, director of the diabetes center at Massachusetts General Hospital. Dr. W. Douglas Weaver, president of the American College of Cardiology, agreed, saying, “It’s hard to get really excited about that data.”

And the excess deaths among patients in the intensive treatment group in the American study gave Dr. Nathan and others pause.

Researchers said it was difficult to compare the studies from the United States and Australia. For example, patients in the two studies took different drugs to lower blood sugar and lowered their blood glucose at different rates — quickly in the federal study, over a period of years in the Australian one.

Those in the federal study used a wide variety of drugs. But all those in the Australian study who were assigned to rigorous blood sugar control were required to take the diabetes drug sulfonylurea gliclazide (modified release), which is not used in the United States.

The study got its major support from Servier, the drug’s maker. Servier had no influence on the conduct of the study or the analysis or publication of its results, said Dr. Stephen MacMahon, a principal investigator and professor of cardiovascular medicine and epidemiology at the University of Sydney.

In both studies, intensive control of blood sugar meant levels of a blood protein, hemoglobin A1C, of 6 percent to 6.5 percent, and less rigorous control meant an A1C goal of around 7 percent to 7.9 percent, typical levels achieved by people with Type 2 diabetes in the United States. The intense control was difficult — participants often ended up taking multiple drugs and injecting themselves with insulin. They also risked severe hypoglycemia from blood sugar levels that plunged dangerously low.

Although the studies’ failure to prove the blood sugar/cardiovascular disease hypothesis was a huge disappointment, the result may reflect how difficult it is to change outcomes in people like the study participants, said Dr. Judith Fradkin, chief of the diabetes division at the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases. They were middle age or older and had had diabetes for years.

“You’re trying to intervene in people in whom a lot of the damage may already have been done,” Dr. Fradkin said. Younger and newly diagnosed patients may be a different story, she said, adding, “That’s the great unanswered question.”

Still, said Dr. John Buse, president for medicine and science of the diabetes association, the blood sugar/cardiovascular disease hypothesis has failed for people with established Type 2 diabetes.

For these patients, “intensive management of A1C for cardiovascular risk probably isn’t worth it,” Dr. Buse said.

Baerdric
Sat, Jun-07-08, 09:25
[
Those in the federal study used a wide variety of drugs. But all those in the Australian study who were assigned to rigorous blood sugar control were required to take the diabetes drug sulfonylurea gliclazide (modified release), which is not used in the United States.

Where's the control in this study of people who kept their blood sugars normal by not eating so many carbs?

ReginaW
Sat, Jun-07-08, 09:48
Where's the control in this study of people who kept their blood sugars normal by not eating so many carbs?

Of course it's not there, nor is a qualification included in any of the statements Kolata asserts in the article..."Thus both studies failed to confirm a dearly held hypothesis that people with Type 2 diabetes could be protected from cardiovascular disease if they strictly controlled their blood sugar [with intensive use of mediaction].

MizKitty
Sat, Jun-07-08, 09:53
Where's the control in this study of people who kept their blood sugars normal by not eating so many carbs?

That doesn't exist, and this whole study makes me sick.
The "rigourous control" was acheived through aggresive drug therapy, not through diet. Multiple dangerous drugs + insulin + statins, in combinations that hadn't been tested before.
And 6 to 6.5 is still too high. It's better than 7, but normal is under 5.
But the ADA defines anything under 7 as "good control. Of course there other position is that "diabetes always progresses".

MY target is 5, through VLC dieting and the minimal drugs (with long safety records - metformin to be specific) I can get by with. Since starting and being consistent with LC, I've gotten off of insulin and 4 other drugs, and my diabetes has nearly reversed.

It's frightening to think how many diabetics who don't do the research and only listen to their doctors will suffer from the message in this study.

Diabetes researchers say that the message is that patients should obtain at least moderate control of blood sugar to protect against eye, kidney and nerve disease. But for heart disease, they say, the only proven method of preventing complications is to give statins to control cholesterol, drugs to control blood pressure and aspirin to control blood clotting
“intensive management of A1C for cardiovascular risk probably isn’t worth it,”
Holy crap. http://www.scentagious.com/forum/images/smiles/faintthud.gif

LessLiz
Sat, Jun-07-08, 10:50
Pretty obviously I agree that there needs to be a study of a group who eat LC for control.

Like MizKitty, I worry what is going to be said to Type II diabetics. The good part could mean a reduction in statin prescriptions automatically written to Type II patients following the publication of the Australian results. BUt I would like to know if they tracked amputations, eye disease and blindness, etc. If the take home message people get from this becomes "it makes no difference what your blood sugar level is" then I worry for people who are Type II.

lowcarbUgh
Sat, Jun-07-08, 11:18
I must read the actual study itself.

As for the article, this is the only sentence that I might agree with:


“You’re trying to intervene in people in whom a lot of the damage may already have been done,” Dr. Fradkin said.

Dr. Bernstein has written that it takes a long time to reverse some of the damage caused by poor control over many years. If anything the conclusion should be that good control (with an A1C of less than 6, close as possible to 5) should be stressed from the get-go with newly diagnosed patients.

KiaKaha
Mon, Jun-09-08, 01:54
This is kind of worrying - what exactly is glipizide?

I have had it offerred to me by my GP but I have kept away from it as I assumed that it wasnt healthy. My brother in law was recently diagnosed with diabetes and has been prescribed it and within 2 months he was on blood pressure lowering medication. Presumably it is not as safe as metforminin?

I wish we knew the definitive reason for these studies reporting as they have. The Aussie one where they truly control to low levels only on glipizide is a bit inexplicable, particularly if glipizide isnt insulin.

Like lots of us here, my lipid tests etc are improving each time I have it done along with my hba1c. I just cant figure how that is not equating to me/us reducing our risk of heart disease.

LessLiz
Mon, Jun-09-08, 08:41
Hi Kia, you have 2 similar sounding drugs confused. The drug in the Aussie results is gliclazide, a time-released formulation of a sulfonyl urea. Glipizide is a different sulfonyl urea, which is also available as a time-release formulation.

Aeon
Mon, Jun-09-08, 08:57
Here's how the L.A. Times covered the story this morning.

Diabetes picture clears up a bit (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-diabetes9-2008jun09,0,7759986,full.story)

VA researchers' finding -- that tight control of glucose levels only works if it's timed well and hypoglycemia is avoided -- helps answer questions raised by two earlier, widely reported studies.

Lowering blood sugar levels to near normal through intensive treatment may reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and heart attacks for Type 2 diabetics, but only if treatment is begun relatively soon after diagnosis and if severe episodes of low blood sugar can be avoided, VA researchers reported Sunday.

The findings from the Veterans Affairs Diabetes Trial may help to resolve concerns raised by two widely reported studies: One found no apparent benefit from such treatment, and the other concluded that intensive treatment might actually be detrimental.

Data from all three studies were presented over the weekend at a San Francisco meeting of the American Diabetes Assn., and although many questions remain unanswered, some generalizations are becoming possible.

Foremost, data from all three studies suggest that the greatest reduction in the risk of heart attacks and cardiovascular disease is achieved by lowering cholesterol levels and by controlling high blood pressure. Controlling glucose can at best provide only a small further reduction in risk that may take many years to become apparent.

But that does not mean that so-called tight control of blood glucose levels is not a good idea. Data from two of the studies confirm earlier findings that such control reduces the risk of kidney and eye disease, also complications of diabetes.

New data from the VA study also show that severe hypoglycemic events -- exceptionally low levels of blood sugar that lead to blackouts or a change of consciousness -- should be avoided at all costs.

The new findings on hypoglycemia may help to explain the sharp differences between the two earlier studies, experts said.

And finally, data from the three studies may ease concerns about the oral diabetes drug rosiglitazone.

Continues at link.

lowcarbUgh
Mon, Jun-09-08, 09:08
How does hypoglycemia contribute to cardiovascular disease?

KvonM
Mon, Jun-09-08, 09:27
i'm curious about the flip side of this study... that being, cardiovascular disease occurs in those who aren't diabetic and don't have a history of insulin resistance problems. so why make the connection? dr. atkins had a heart attack that was in no way linked to his eating habits.

or am i confusing heart attacks in general with cardiovascular disease?

Squarecube
Mon, Jun-09-08, 09:29
How does hypoglycemia contribute to cardiovascular disease?

Well, er, I'll take a guess.

Hypoglycemia is preceded by an insulin spike.

Gypsybyrd
Mon, Jun-09-08, 10:24
I agree with the comments above about how the study participants' blood sugar levels were controlled by drugs with no control group of controlling the levels via dietary methods.

But this also disturbed me (maybe I'm reading too much into it?):

But researchers disagreed about whether the kidney disease effect in the Australian study was enough to advise patients to strive for rigorous blood sugar control. The Australian investigators said it was.

Others were not so sure. The kidney effect was “a modest benefit,” said Dr. David Nathan, director of the diabetes center at Massachusetts General Hospital. Dr. W. Douglas Weaver, president of the American College of Cardiology, agreed, saying, “It’s hard to get really excited about that data.”

It seems to me that any, not to mention a 'modest', benefit would be enough to advise patients to strive for rigorous blood sugar control.

lowcarbUgh
Mon, Jun-09-08, 10:34
Well, er, I'll take a guess.

Hypoglycemia is preceded by an insulin spike.

These people were all on meds to lower their BG levels, and I assume that the hypoglycemia was caused by the medication, not so much a natural response from the body.

I've done a little bit of research so far and what I see is that hypoglycemia can cause heart tachycardia which I suppose could lead to a coronary, especially if the heart is already unhealthy.

If feel that hypoglycemia is a serious problem for diabetics on medication. I am doing everything right now to avoid it including running looser BGs.

NoWhammies
Mon, Jun-09-08, 11:35
Have we come to a point now where drugs are considered the only viable way to "fix" things when there is something wry in the body? The implication seems to be that, heck, if the drugs don't work and provide benefits, then nothing will. Sad, sad commentary.

lowcarbUgh
Mon, Jun-09-08, 11:57
The people in the study seemed to have long-established type 2 diabetics and long-term poor control leads to beta cell destruction so perhaps many of them had to be on some drug or maybe even insulin.

If diabetes is diagnosed and controlled by diet and weight loss initially some people are able to put their diabetes in remission and never take drugs. Once drugs and insulin are involved, it becomes trickier.

The only plan I know of is Dr. Bernstein's plan which requires meticulous attention to every detail of your life and you have to be willing to go to great lengths to do things like dilute your insulin in order to take 1/4 unit, get up at 5:00 a.m. to bolus for Dawn effect, eat 6-6-12 carbs and a certain amount of protein for every meal with absolutely no deviation. Very few people can do this.

There is a middle ground of low carbing and not shooting for perfect with the subsequent risk for severe hypos which can kill you.

The people in the study were not low carbing, but simply striving for normal with the brute force of medications. It is a very flawed study in that regard.