From Atkins to PP how did it go?

[k-boogie]

Okay right now I am doing Atkins but after going through the PP threads I am interested in maybe switching. My concern is how it will affect my weightloss. When I went from Atkins to SB the scale went crazy as they are totally different plans as far as carbs.

Sooooooo the burning question is for those who switched from Atkins to PP did you struggle? Did you gain weight? Did you stall for a while before seeing a loss? Why did you switch?

TIA

[NoWhammies]

Actually, I was stalled on Atkins (8 weeks), and it broke my stall. For me, this was just the ticket, and I like the plan much better. :)

[Chell921]

I'm thinking about doing the same thing.... I've been stuck at 150 for almost a month now and I've been missing strawberries.

I think I need a new something to follow to get things moving. I have PP, but I'm going to buy PPLP and read that, it sounds like it is a much better book than the original PP.

Let me know how the switch goes for you! I'm also considering paleo-ish eating, but I really am not planning on giving up my cheese/dairy!

[CindySue48]

I was eating more like PP than Atkins all along. I love protein....meat, fish poultry, eggs....but I'm not a big fat fan. I don't cut back on fat, and use it "liberally", but still had lower % than Atkins said I should.

For me, the protein and fat doesn't matter, only carbs. If I keep my carbs low enough, I loose weight....and if they go too high I will stall or gain. I think for this reason SB wouldn't work for me....but Atkins and PP are excellent.

[kali234]

i agree. i'd say i am an atkins/protein power hybrid. i think it's the best of both worlds. i've been keeping net carbs at 30 or below, most days. i like atkins because it's a very scripted diet; the directions are all written out to a T and the OWL "carb ladder" and climbing-the-rungs thing is very specific and there's very little margin for error. i tend to have problems with diets that are too liberal or let me eat a very large range of things. to illustrate, in 2004, i went from 170 lbs to 145 or thereabouts on south beach. then i gained a lot of it back, went up to about 168 or so. then went back down to 155, by doing south beach again. but i could never get back down to 140. the problem with south beach was that i would lose weight quite predictably in phase 1. and then phase 2 (when you add back grains, fruits, etc.) would inevitably cause me to gain or, at best, stall out for months. this drove me crazy. then i picked up the protein power and atkins books and read them both cover to cover. they both made a lot of sense to me.

i went from 155 to 140 by doing atkins. i don't pay much attention to the OWL rungs. in that sense, i'm more protein power--i pay close attention to my carb intake but i also enjoy a glass of red wine or half an apple or whatever even if i wouldn't be able to under atkins until later stages of OWL. even though i like the great deal of order in atkins, when i feel like i am being over-restricted (in terms of, 'i really want a spoonful of peanut butter but i can't until i reach the legumes rung of OWL') i tend to quit. in my experience.

that said, i'm very carb-sensitive and have PCOS/insulin resistance so i notice that i have to keep carbs around 30-40 net carbs/day to lose weight reliably. i also use a lot of supplements that atkins recommends--gtf chromium and L-glutamine especially for cravings.

[pamlynn]

Glad you asked this question. I'm somewhere in never-never land, as far as the program to follow. I don't feel the need at all to add back grains or even fruit as u should do on SB. Do know I have to up my protein and it sounds like this PP might make me make more of an effort to achieve this by making me more accountable. Will follow this thread closely to see different opinions.

Thanks.

[k-boogie]

I am still waiting on my PPLP book to arrive from amazon I can't wait to crack it open.

I too like how Atkins is planned out as far as what to add, however I feel when it comes to OWL you should be able to start from any rung.

The only problem I see if with portion control on nuts but other then that. I know there are some who insist you follow the rungs to a "T". But I am always one to say do what works best for you. ;)

[snowgirl73]

I have followed the Atkins plan in the past, but really like Protein Power better. I really enjoy adding fruits into the plan and they do not cause any cravings for me. I also like the Eades' approach to LC...it seems very maintainable to me in the long run.

[steph0203]

would someone mind telling me the difference between the two plans so I can decide whether or not to check out PP?

[snowgirl73]

In short, protein power requires you to eat a minimum amount of protein each day, depending on your height/weight/gender. One main difference from Atkins is that PP does not care what source you use to fill your carbohydrate allotment...if you want to eat a 1/4 cup of corn instead of a good amount of broccoli or salad, that is your choice. That also opens up lots of LC fruits, etc. that you can choose to add to your menus. I don't have the book in front of me, but I (or someone) could look up your minimum protein requirements. You also eat slightly more carbs during the PP "intervention" phase as opposed to Atkins' "induction." (15 carbs per meal, I believe).

The protein power life plan book is an excellent read. They are big on science and actually getting you to understand how the plan works, and they also go into other beneficial things such as taking magnesium & the benefits of sunlight. I have done Atkins in the past, but I really enjoy protein power much more.

Please feel free to ask some specific questions about what aspects of the plan you are interested in...I'm sure there are a lot of people ready with answers!

:)

[NoWhammies]

I believe for your height/weight, protein requirement is 34 grams per meal (total 102 per day). Carbs in intervention is 7-10 net grams per meal. Fat to satiation. It is still recommended you avoid sugar, white flour, etc. - but you do have more freedom to choose your carbs as long as you stay under your recommended net carbs per meal. In PPLP, there are several other parts of the entire plan, as well, such as getting some exercise, adequate vitamin D in the form of sunlight, rest, meditation and relaxation - so an overall healthy lifestyle in order to promote optimal good health. There are different levels you can choose - Purist, Dilletante and Hedonist depending on the types of foods and carbs you wish to partake in, whether you will have alcohol, coffee, sweeteners, etc.

[LessLiz]

Here's what changed for me when I went from Atkins to PPLP:

1. I started eating more protein. Just eating the PPLP recommended minimum protein for my size made me less hungry without giving me that sick feeling I was getting from eating a huge amount of fat. I was eating a lot of fat on Atkins to stop hunger.

2. Because I was less hungry I started eating less fat. My fat % dropped to about 60%. My caloric intake dropped. I didn't try to do this -- it just happened.

3. I started eating berries, melons and peaches again. They tasted incredibly good. I started eating the occasional serving of beans, which I love. I returned to eating the occasional toasted LC tortilla, which completely killed my bread cravings. I started eating fried chicken pieces and fried pork chops dusted with flour instead of the myriad of substitutions I had attempted on Atkins, and they tasted good. And I did it all without anyone telling me I was doing something wrong, and I have zero carb cravings.

4. My weight decreased.

5. I feel mentally and physically more alert and energetic.

[snowgirl73]

I didn't mean to imply above thata 1/4 cup of corn would be as good of a choice as something like broccoli. I was just saying that those options are there & aren't really restricted as on Atkins. Obviously you want to make healthy choices based on what works for you.

:o I've been cutting too much grass today, my brain is a little fried.

[LessLiz]

I didn't mean to imply above thata 1/4 cup of corn would be as good of a choice as something like broccoli.Depends on how badly you want it. :)

[snowgirl73]

Depends on how badly you want it. :)

:lol: I guess that is true! I guess you could drown it in butter so at least it would be filling.

[feelskinny]

I did Atkins the first 7 months. Stayed under 20gm carbs/day but started missing my fruit.
I love protien and decided this could be a good plan for me.

It's been slow but it definatley got the scale moving again, but the clothes are getting even looser then the scale warrents.

I've also noticed I don't get the 'big-hunger, like I could eat a whole cow' days either.

I'm sticking around for sure.

[amandawood]

I also read "The Protein Power Life Lifeplan" and whilst I found it very informative, all the maths involved with calculating the protein put me off. I just tuned out when I saw that. I'm another "Barry Girl" (like Wifezilla), and I find that as far as the basic premises are concerned, PPLP and the principles in "Natural Health and Weight Loss" are pretty much the same. I aim for about 70g "gross" carbs a day and eat protein and fat at all meals. If I don't put enough fat with the meal, I get hungry again too quickly. In five months I've lost about 80% of the weight I was aiming to lose. If I go up to 100g, I don't lose, if I go over 100g, I gain. With this knowledge (from daily weighing and noting this info in my food diary), I know how to lose weight and maintain.

What I didn't like about PPLP is that it scared the pants off me!!! I began to think "OMG, must dash off to the doctor's and have all sorts of levels checked! OMG, I live in Germany, how can I get all these supplements?!!!"

In the meantime I've also read "Nourishing Traditions" (I like reading books on nutrition...) by Sally Fallon, which has put my mind to rest to a great degree as, according to her knowledge, you can get most of the stuff you need from food if you eat the right kind of stuff.

But even she recommends blackcurrant oil for GLA...

Have fun with PPLP - I don't think you can really go wrong there. I'm not a fan of Atkins - too much soy and processed products and too restrictive. But the basic low-carb principles are, of course, to be applauded and much healthier than the low-fat dogma.

GOOD LUCK!
amanda

[snowgirl73]

The original Protein Power book had the gazillion calculations to determine your minimum protein requirements. PPLP uses a chart based on height/weight/gender to determine this same number. :)

[k-boogie]

Just got my PPLP book in the mail yesterday only read a few pages so far. Will be back with my thoughts once I read some more.

[LessLiz]

I'm not a fan of Atkins - too much soy and processed products and too restrictive.I agree with the restrictive part but the soy and processed products are simply people's choices, not Atkins.

I see only 2 problems with Atkins. One is the assumption that if you eat LC then you are eating enough protein, and if you look at what many Atkins followers eat they are eating far less protein that is required to prevent muscle wasting no matter who's recommendations you go by. The second problem is that in later versions of his book Atkins decided to give some generic restrictions for how carbs are added back into the diet as one progresses towards maintenance. A better way, in my opinion, would have been to describe how to know if a particular food or group of foods is an issue, rather than saying "do this today then do that next week."

[livesimply]

Here's what changed for me when I went from Atkins to PPLP:

1. I started eating more protein. Just eating the PPLP recommended minimum protein for my size made me less hungry without giving me that sick feeling I was getting from eating a huge amount of fat. I was eating a lot of fat on Atkins to stop hunger.

2. Because I was less hungry I started eating less fat. My fat % dropped to about 60%. My caloric intake dropped. I didn't try to do this -- it just happened.

3. I started eating berries, melons and peaches again. They tasted incredibly good. I started eating the occasional serving of beans, which I love. I returned to eating the occasional toasted LC tortilla, which completely killed my bread cravings. I started eating fried chicken pieces and fried pork chops dusted with flour instead of the myriad of substitutions I had attempted on Atkins, and they tasted good. And I did it all without anyone telling me I was doing something wrong, and I have zero carb cravings.

4. My weight decreased.

5. I feel mentally and physically more alert and energetic.
How long were you doing Atkins before you switched? I read the original PP years ago and liked a lot of it, but wasn't ready to totally embrace LC as a WOE instead of a diet. But a lot of what you said really rings true for me. You have me considering switching to PPLP, especially as strawberry season turns to peach season, and corn is coming in......

Am I considering switching too soon? Any thoughts welcome!

P.S. Am checking out PPLP from my local library TODAY--will post back what I think. :)

[pamlynn]

K: How are u coming reading the PPLP book? Have u officially decided to switch or waiting till u get through the book?
One caution is that going from Atkins to PP u have to go to the less fat choices because of the increased intake of carbs. (I think I said this to u already, but it bears repeating). I tried hi-fatting for a while and had to quit, but the mentality of "it's okay to eat a high amount of fat" has lingered and u just can't eat all that fat on PP. My choices have been marbled steak and chicken thighs, when they should have been leaner cuts of beef and chicken breasts. Oh well, as long as I'm living I'll continue to learn. Hope this helps.

Actually it feels like I'm coming full circle. When I started LC I did it on my own and just cut out bread, cereal, most sugar, potatoes and ate protein and veggies. And guess what? After reading 3 more books, and 100's of threads on this forum, I'm going back to what I started off doing in the first place only is called Protein Power. I should have written a book.

[NoWhammies]

Oh yeah - my fat intake went down when I switched to PPLP - but boy, I feel much better on PPLP. To me, it feels like a much more sustainable way of life than Atkins ever did. Atkins always felt like a diet.

[pamlynn]

Oh yeah - my fat intake went down when I switched to PPLP - but boy, I feel much better on PPLP. To me, it feels like a much more sustainable way of life than Atkins ever did. Atkins always felt like a diet.
I agree. I did Atkins years ago and it was awful for me all that fat made me so sick (I have no gallbladder) and it did feel like a diet, and one u couldn't do the rest of your life. I don't feel so restricted on PP and it does feel like something u can stick to as a WOE for life.

[LarryAJ]

I tried hi-fatting for a while and had to quit, but the mentality of "it's okay to eat a high amount of fat" has lingered and u just can't eat all that fat on PP. You can't???? But I am! and I have been doing PP/PPLP for 5 years. EDIT: Oops!! I sorry I missed your lack of a gallbladder - that makes you a SPECIAL CASE. Getting your body to run on fat is what you want to do so you can burn away your unwanted stored fat. In your case, I am not sure what the best approch to that would be. I hope you find out.

Breakfast is 80% fat from olive oil and coconut oil which gives me about 1400 calories. I do not eat lunch because I am NOT hungry and go 8 hours or so til I eat supper. 2nd edit: I should add in here that I eat most of my protein for supper and thus have less fat then. So overall my total fat may be in the range of 60-70%. I have been doing PP/PPLP for the lipid (and other) benifits, not to loose weight.

Remember, PP/PPLP has NO EXPLICIT foods you must (or must not) eat. The parameters are; FIRST - enough protein for your body size/activity [ I have not seen any indication that the Eades would allow unlimited protein consumption!], Second - limit carbohydrates such that your body MUST use glucogensis to have enough blood serum glucose for the few cells that need it (no miticohondria), and FINALY - eat enough FAT to supply the calories you need. Supplements are recomended where you cannot get YOUR daily requirement from the foods/drinks you eat. Magnesium being the one that the Eades would FIRST recommend.

[LessLiz]

I did Atkins, either actively losing or in maintenance, for 9.75 years.

I eat less fat on PPLP, but I am a *long* way from low fat, or moderate fat. I tend to get about 60% of my calories from fat, though I have no targets I'm trying to meet -- it just works out that way. I couldn't possibly eat 80% calories from fat if I get the minimum protein requirement in every day, but many people are quite successful doing that.

[pamlynn]

You can't???? But I am! and I have been doing PP/PPLP for 5 years. EDIT: Oops!! I sorry I missed your lack of a gallbladder - that makes you a SPECIAL CASE. Getting your body to run on fat is what you want to do so you can burn away your unwanted stored fat. In your case, I am not sure what the best approch to that would be. I hope you find out.

Breakfast is 80% fat from olive oil and coconut oil which gives me about 1400 calories. I do not eat lunch because I am NOT hungry and go 8 hours or so til I eat supper. 2nd edit: I should add in here that I eat most of my protein for supper and thus have less fat then. So overall my total fat may be in the range of 60-70%. I have been doing PP/PPLP for the lipid (and other) benifits, not to loose weight.

Remember, PP/PPLP has NO EXPLICIT foods you must (or must not) eat. The parameters are; FIRST - enough protein for your body size/activity [ I have not seen any indication that the Eades would allow unlimited protein consumption!], Second - limit carbohydrates such that your body MUST use glucogensis to have enough blood serum glucose for the few cells that need it (no miticohondria), and FINALY - eat enough FAT to supply the calories you need. Supplements are recomended where you cannot get YOUR daily requirement from the foods/drinks you eat. Magnesium being the one that the Eades would FIRST recommend.
Thanks Larry, appreciate your input here. I guess I should have said "I" just can't eat all that fat". I'm just starting PP and have only read the Protein Power book so I'm still learning the program. But one itty-bitty statement made in the book stuck in my mind, which read: When in doubt eat lean meat, fish, or fowl and salad. BUT in another place it reads not to worry about fat. PP allows me more carbs than I've been eating for the last almost three months, and I've read on a thread or two that with an increase in carbs, you should decrease your fat intake, so that's where I was coming from. I know I'll still eat my coconut oil and butter and olive oil, so I'm not worried about that kind of fat, just think I'll be more cautious about the animal fats, especially since that's the kind of fat that my body with it's missing gall blader, rebels against.

[k-boogie]

I finished reading PPLP can I just say it had me a little confused once I got to the menus. I don't I guess I am so use to SB and Atkins format that it kind of threw me off.


Of course I come with questions??????

First off how in the world do you count your protein? I don't have a scale and couldn't tell you what a 2 oz piece of chicken look like compared to 4 oz.

As far as fat do you just add enough for cooking but not intentionally ADD lots to make it high fat?

What about calories? I noticed in the book he does mention that you have to be mindful of that.

Umm let's see what about the carbs? Someone mentioned before that in the PP book that it said to start with 30 carbs but I don't recall seeing this in PPLP.

I know I am going to have to read the book again.

One thing I want to ay about Atkins and I actually started a thread asking does Atkins eventually become a Low Fat diet? (not as low as your typical low fat diets but MUCH lower then Induction/OWL)

I ask this b/c I went back and read Atkins 2002 book and in the Q&A section he was asked if he promotes a high fat diet and his response was......... Not exactly b/c once you work towards maintence you will have to DECREASE your fats as you INCREASE your carbs.

So that left me thinking is that why alot of people have trouble staying on Atkins I mean really following it to the letter and tend to always go back to Induction/OWL? I find that alot of people are not truly going up the rungs as written in the book and are actually stuck at Induction with a few added OWL-Maintence foods thrown in every now and then. To me this is not how the plan was design.

Let me say this is not a bash in any form on the Atkins diet (before anyone starts posting). I read and come to my own conclusions but I am curious as to what think?

For me I am tired of dieting and want something I can live with without feeling deprived. I don't want to spend my life afraid to leave Induction.

[pamlynn]

With my limited knowledge, I'll attempt to answer a couple of questions. (You should look at the post above from Larry, it gives quite a lot info on the basics of the program).

First, I would invest in a cheap little kitchen scale to weigh your protein since protein is so important to following the program correctly.

As far as fat goes, Larry gives some insight on that too, but I think that if you need the calories (guess u don't want to go too low) you can add the good oils. BUT it may be that you'll get enough from the protein foods you eat. And I GUESS the point is that we aren't to be afraid of our fat intake (or at least not the good ones) if our carbs (the PP book does definitely start u at 30) are the right amounts. General rule: In the absence of carbs (too many), fat intake should not be a problem.

Others will be able to help u a lot more on your questions, I'm sure.

[livesimply]

First off how in the world do you count your protein? I don't have a scale and couldn't tell you what a 2 oz piece of chicken look like compared to 4 oz.On page 76 of Atkins for Life (AFL) he lists really great guidelines for estimating portion sizes that might help you. :) So that left me thinking is that why alot of people have trouble staying on Atkins I mean really following it to the letter and tend to always go back to Induction/OWL? I find that alot of people are not truly going up the rungs as written in the book and are actually stuck at Induction with a few added OWL-Maintence foods thrown in every now and then. To me this is not how the plan was design......

For me I am tired of dieting and want something I can live with without feeling deprived. I don't want to spend my life afraid to leave Induction.I've been reading several threads with great interest and was contemplating switching to PP/PPLP. Got the books from the library AND got out my DANDR & AFL (Atkins for Life). I agree totally that it "seems" like lots of people do stay at induction-level carbs for various reasons-food intolerances, falling off/on the wagon, fear, etc. For me, my ultimate goal is to be able to follow something more like AFL if possible. In that book he breaks down foods into 3 categories: eat regularly, eat moderately, eat sparingly. Fruit is included, so are some grains, but basically keeping things LC and high nutrition. I'm good with that as a lifetime plan--it seems very similar to PP in the later stages. We'll see as I go along; I figure I can always tweak to my particular needs.

I TOTALLY agree with pamlynn about getting a kitchen scale--I use mine all the time!

This is a great discussion. :thup:

[NoWhammies]

I did Atkins, either actively losing or in maintenance, for 9.75 years.

I eat less fat on PPLP, but I am a *long* way from low fat, or moderate fat. I tend to get about 60% of my calories from fat, though I have no targets I'm trying to meet -- it just works out that way. I couldn't possibly eat 80% calories from fat if I get the minimum protein requirement in every day, but many people are quite successful doing that.
Yeah - my fat intake typically works out in that neighborhood, too. If I tried to do higher fat, my calories would be just too darn high for my BMR and activity level.

[NoWhammies]

First off how in the world do you count your protein? I don't have a scale and couldn't tell you what a 2 oz piece of chicken look like compared to 4 oze.
I'd recommend a digital kitchen scale. This is perhaps the best piece of kitchen equipment that I have. Since LessLiz recommended one, I use mine for EVERYTHING and it has really helped me as far as knowing how much I eat. Definitely worth having, and not expensive at Target or WallyWorld.


As far as fat do you just add enough for cooking but not intentionally ADD lots to make it high fat?


It depends on how much room I have left in my daily caloric intake as to whether I add in fats or not. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.



What about calories? I noticed in the book he does mention that you have to be mindful of that.


I base my calories on my BMR - here's a link to a BMR calculator (http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/) I also calculate in my activity level using the Harris Benedict Equation (http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/),and then subtract about 400 or 500 calories from that final number (to create a caloric defecit). I eat between the BMR number and the Harris Benedict number -less the 400 to 500 calories daily.

What about carbs? On intervention, carbs should be about 7-10 net carbs per meal.

[k-boogie]

awwww you guys are the best!! Thanks for the responses, I am going to go to Target on my lunch break and check out some food scales.

Any recommendations on scales?

[NoWhammies]

Here's mine. (http://www.target.com/Chefmate-Digital-Glass-Scale/dp/B0013KOLUQ/sr=1-2/qid=1212766711/ref=sr_1_2/601-5925803-5584101?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=1038576&rh=k%3Achefmate%20digital%20scale&page=1)

[livesimply]

Here's mine. (http://www.target.com/Chefmate-Digital-Glass-Scale/dp/B0013KOLUQ/sr=1-2/qid=1212766711/ref=sr_1_2/601-5925803-5584101?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=1038576&rh=k%3Achefmate%20digital%20scale&page=1)Thanks for posting that link--when my scale *dies* I think that's the kind I'll buy.

And also thanks for posting the BMR and Harris links!

[pamlynn]

I'd recommend a digital kitchen scale. This is perhaps the best piece of kitchen equipment that I have. Since LessLiz recommended one, I use mine for EVERYTHING and it has really helped me as far as knowing how much I eat. Definitely worth having, and not expensive at Target or WallyWorld.



It depends on how much room I have left in my daily caloric intake as to whether I add in fats or not. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.



I base my calories on my BMR - here's a link to a BMR calculator
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/ (BMR calculator). I also calculate in my activity level using the Harris Benedict Equation (at the same link), and then subtract about 400 or 500 calories from that final number. I eat between the BMR number and the Harris Benedict number -less the 400 to 500 calories (for caloric defecit) daily.

On intervention, carbs should be about 7-10 net carbs per meal.
My BMR is 1694 and my energy requirements are 2033, but what does this mean?

[NoWhammies]

My BMR is 1694 and my energy requirements are 2033, but what does this mean?
Don't eat less than 1694 calories if you want to preserve LBM. Energy requirements 2033 - to create a caloric deficit, you want to eat a few hundred calories under this - so eat between 1694 and maybe 1800 cal or so a day probably. If you want to eat more and still lose, up your activity level. I am assuming the numbers are so close together because your activity level is on the lower side?

Also, remember, these are GENERAL guideline numbers - it is always a case of YMMV.