Bernstein Burnout

[lowcarbUgh]

Hi Folks!

I'm a 30+ year Type I and have been trying to follow Bernstein for the past 3 years because I produce no insulin and am fairly brittle - I can go from 50 to 500 in an hour given enough sugar. My problem is that I don't like many high protein foods. I was trying to eat my chicken breast this evening and it was a gruesome chew, chew, chew, swallow chew, chew, chew swallow, etc. I managed to eat about 4 oz. of the chicken with 1/2 cup of broccoli. I had some Dixie Diner low-carb pancakes for lunch, which I found a real treat at 3 net carbs for 3. My favorite meal is a low-carb wrap stuffed with avocado, a little cheese, and alfalfa sprouts. I'm the type of person who would love to eat a low fat, high carb diet - but I can't. And I'm growing so discouraged because I just don't like meat!

I like eggs ok and usually eat a couple every day. I can eat nuts too and once lost about 5 pounds eating primarily nuts and veggies, although my poo started resembling Payday candy bars. :-) I love antipasto veggies like olives, artichoke hearts, and, of course feta cheese, in olive oil. I can drink high-protein shakes with cream and water, but forget about chicken, steak and pork because I can't seem to stomach them any longer. I'm totally at a loss as to what to eat on the 8, 8, 12 plan. The Wasa high-fiber cracker is the highlight of my day. I'm not overweight and am having a time holding onto the weight I do have without running high blood sugars from eating things like fried breaded mushrooms with horseradish sauce. I really need some suggestions on how to expand my food choices without sending my BG levels through the roof. My nutritionist is of no help and my doctor keeps referring me to the nutritionist.

Currently I'm taking 7 Lantus am, 1.5 Humalog bolus as 5:30 a.m for Dawn Syndrome, 2 Humalog breakfast, 2 at lunch, and 3 at dinner with 7 Lantus before bed.

Thanks in advance,

Susan

[Korban]

A ton of recipes at : http://www.diabetes-book.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1166716586
and numerous other places... somehow I think you won't like them though...

Good luck with your plight.

/smile

[lowcarbUgh]

Thanks, Korban,

I have both of Dr. B's books. He is a superb role model and I don't know how he does it. I've been on a "diet" for 30 years and I'm in awe. The problem is I've developed almost a gag reflex to some foods. If I have to eat another chicken breast, I think I'm going to hurl. I have followed his advice to the best of my ability including the strength training.

I was on an insulin pump for 12 years and I have so many abdominal scars that i need plastic surgery to ever wear a bikini again. It just sucks....

[RobLL]

Are there some kinds of fats you enjoy? They really are needed to make low carb tolerable. By the way, chicken breasts (esp. skinless) are the hardest part to cook and be palatable. Thighs are much easier.

[Korban]

Are there some kinds of fats you enjoy? They really are needed to make low carb tolerable. By the way, chicken breasts (esp. skinless) are the hardest part to cook and be palatable. Thighs are much easier.

Good comment re: fats. Also, the chicken change is a good one for me to try - I was getting tired of the skinless breast too... I never thought about making a change. /doh

/smile

[dancinbr]

I love seafood.

I love steaks.

I gather you do not like any of this.

That is too bad.

You can have such good meals with various meats and/or fish. I like chicken too, but not just breasts. We usually cook up chicken thighs and legs and sometimes roast the entire bird.

I am always good for a salad with cheese, ham, etc.

Wish you the best,

Ralph

[lené]

I have a preference for beef, I find, so I tend to eat more of that than chicken. But maybe a roasted chicken with a nicely crispy skin would appeal to you more? In my stores I can find a brand called Smart Chicken --- they are air-chilled (not water-bath) and have no added liquids injected into them. To get a perfect skin, it needs to be patted completely dry if you wash it (I don't bother rinsing it, as cooking it completely will kill any of the germs that might be washed off, anyway.) Just sprinkle it liberally with pepper all over, then liberally with kosher salt all over. Pop the roasting pan, uncovered, into a preheated 425 degree oven and roast for 1 to 1.5 hours, depending on the size of the chicken. Don't stuff it with anything like an onion or lemon, because to get that great crispy skin you want to avoid liquid in there. Does that sound tastier than what you've been eating?

I agree about fat -- getting plenty of fat helps a lot. Maybe just browsing through some cookbooks or cooking magazines would give you ideas for protein choices that would appeal to your taste buds more than what you've been doing. It's easy to get in a rut and feel absolutely sick of your day-to-day diet.

Good luck!

[Charran]

Susan...I do sympathize with you and I understand totally what you're talking about. I'm another person who really doesn't like meat much at all. Some days eggs make me want to :Puke: and well, you get the picture! :lol: What I have been experimenting with is this...sometimes it's the texture of the meat that I don't like. If it's dry and tasteless, it does make a person gag. I have been trying out some meat marinades and that seems to put in added moisture. Also, I don't like eating a whole chicken breast. I can barely gag one down, but if I take the chicken breast and cut it up into tiny pieces and stir fry it with some veggies or just add it to a caesar salad, well then, it becomes edible to me. Same with pork chops. By themselves, they are revolting to me, but if I cut them up and stir fry them, then they become something else completely. Beef, I prefer ground and that can be made into so many different things. Stroganoff is one of my favourites and chili is good too! As far as eggs go, well, egg salad seems to be one of my favourites. I guess because they're disguised with the flavours of onion, mayo, pickles, veggies, spices, or whatever you choose to put in there. Omlettes are another good thing because of all the other added things. How do you feel about fish or seafood? They normally don't get dry when you cook them! I have tuna or salmon salad on ryvita crackers often! I do think it's the moisture I like in meat! Or chicken salad made with diced up chicken breast and mayo and other yummy things! Hope some of these suggestions help you. They've been a life saver for me! :)

[Korban]

...Omlettes are another good thing because of all the other added things...

As I am not a real cook - I eat a ham and cheese omelet every morning and have for the past three months... 4 g carbs... and it takes me 2 minutes in the microwave. They are the Jimmy Dean Ham and Cheese Omelet and they taste GREAT imho. You get 2 to a box and at Wally Mart I think they cost $2.50 for the 2 or $1.25 each. Amazingly, I am still not tired of them - although 3 months is not 30 years...:)

Egg salad has me drooling... I am gonna have to learn to actually cook things, I guess... Going to find a recipe and have a go at it today I think.

thanks
/smile

[RobLL]

Another comment res fat. If you go very low carb, simply as a matter of arithmetic you must go higher fat. No one, even meat lovers, generally are able to raise protein grams that much. Just play around with the fat/carb/protein per centages, calories needed for maintaining your weight, and you will see how this plays out.

One possibility to increase protein along with a little carbs is the weightlifters one of whey protein drinks. While they are not gourmet, they are very palatable. Walmart and Costco have nice prices on them. Jenny even has a recipe using the vanilla flavored one with an egg and other stuff to make pancakes.

[Nancy LC]

Your complaint is common amongst people that don't cook. If you learn to cook then you shouldn't have any problem creating excellent, and delicious low carb meals. I'd never have been able to stick to this for years if I hadn't known how to cook.

Also, chicken breast is probably the worst part of the chicken, unless it has been properly prepared. It is dry and tends to get tough.

I'd suggest tuning into Food Network TV or getting some of Alton Brown's cooking show on DVD and watching. You'll pick up tons of ideas and techniques.

[Korban]

Your complaint is common amongst people that don't cook. If you learn to cook then you shouldn't have any problem creating excellent, and delicious low carb meals. I'd never have been able to stick to this for years if I hadn't known how to cook.

Also, chicken breast is probably the worst part of the chicken, unless it has been properly prepared. It is dry and tends to get tough.

I'd suggest tuning into Food Network TV or getting some of Alton Brown's cooking show on DVD and watching. You'll pick up tons of ideas and techniques.
I think most of my problem re: cooking is related to culinary laziness.../sigh... I have been actively collecting a ton of recipes and actually cooking on occasion. In this short span on LC I haven't yet hit a wall but I anticipate it happening if I don't broaden my interest in cuisine.

Food Network is probably a great idea for me to help strike up some passion for cuisine. I don't think I have ever watched it to date... but did you see Kobe Bryant last night? :)

I hooked up with Netrition dot com and have a lot of interesting stuff from them... I can make and eat pancakes now!!!

I suspect meat, eggs, and cheese will get old eventually but other than french fries those were probably my favorites anyway... and now I don't feel like I need to cut the fat off my steaks.

Thanks for the comments regarding your experience - I usually don't pay much attention to posters though until they have 20,000 posts. ;)

/smile

[CanadaDiva]

HI, I am a bit confused with the postings here with people who list themselves on dr bernsteins. I have done this diet twice now and I dont understand how you can be eating such high fat foods. His diet as literally no fat but is still somewhat low carb. Is this not the same diet or an I missing something? sorry for my ignorance.thanks

[Charran]

This is a common mistake. There are the Bernstein Weight Loss clinics which have their own plan and then there is Dr. Bernstein, who has written books on diabetes and is himself diabetic. The people in this forum follow the diabetic plan! They are NOT the same plan and NOT the same person.

[Charran]

Your complaint is common amongst people that don't cook. If you learn to cook then you shouldn't have any problem creating excellent, and delicious low carb meals. I'd never have been able to stick to this for years if I hadn't known how to cook. Speaking just for myself of course, but I am a very good cook. I try out new recipes and everyone else seems to think they are wonderful tasting. The problem for me, as perhaps with Susan, is that I plainly just don't like the taste of meat. It doesn't matter how well prepared or what you do or add to it, I just don't care for it much. If there was anything on the table besides it, I would choose any other item.

[v-effect]

Other suggestions: (I've been pumping and doing Dr. B for over a decade)

Tofu and tofu products.
Sandwiches made on lc bread.
lc bagels
Fish
One question: when were you pumping? You mention scarring- Ive been pumping for some time; I change my set every 3 days and use novalog. Were you leaving your sets in and/or using an older type of insulin? What do you think led to your scarring?
Thanks,
V.

[lowcarbUgh]

Speaking just for myself of course, but I am a very good cook. I try out new recipes and everyone else seems to think they are wonderful tasting. The problem for me, as perhaps with Susan, is that I plainly just don't like the taste of meat. It doesn't matter how well prepared or what you do or add to it, I just don't care for it much. If there was anything on the table besides it, I would choose any other item.

Charron is absolutely right - I just don't care for meat. I will also choose the veggies over the meat dishes. I eat a lot of salad with eggs, egg salad on Wasa fiber cracker, Caesar salad with shrimp. I also eat a lot of omlettes. I can tolerate fish somewhat better. I do cook. In fact, I am going to make myself an LC cheesecake tomorrow. I think I'll have that instead of chicken :yum:

[lowcarbUgh]

Other suggestions: (I've been pumping and doing Dr. B for over a decade)

Tofu and tofu products.
Sandwiches made on lc bread.
lc bagels
Fish
One question: when were you pumping? You mention scarring- Ive been pumping for some time; I change my set every 3 days and use novalog. Were you leaving your sets in and/or using an older type of insulin? What do you think led to your scarring?
Thanks,
V.

I first pumped in 1985 or 86 at the very beginning. It required a hospital stay to learn how to use the pump. At that time, there was only regular and 3 types of longer lasting insulin: Ultra, NPH and and I one other less common one. I developed dimples where fat leaked out under my skin and these fat dimples are permanently stuck there. I need liposuction to get rid of them.

I do eat LC pita bread, tofu chili, but if you are strictly abiding by Dr. Bernstein's diet, you aren't supposed to eat any type of bread. I drink shakes made from soy isolate, cream and water, DaVincci Caramel syrup, dash of almond flour and 2 TSB of peanut butter. I call this the peanut butter cookie shake.

[Korban]

...I do eat LC pita bread, tofu chili, but if you are strictly abiding by Dr. Bernstein's diet, you aren't supposed to eat any type of bread...
I didn't know this. I thought his basic premise was normalization of BG and eat a 6g - 12g - 12g without specifically addressing food type per se. I do suspect that it is healthier to get carbs from veggies, etc., but I often use an LC flatbread for cheese or egg sandwiches... and I have definitely partaken of the Bernstein Kool-aid. My carbs almost always run under 30 grams per day and my BGs stay in control as long as I don't drink coffee in the morning /sigh.

Why is LC bread problematic per Bernstein?

/smile

[lowcarbUgh]

I didn't know this. I thought his basic premise was normalization of BG and eat a 6g - 12g - 12g without specifically addressing food type per se. I do suspect that it is healthier to get carbs from veggies, etc., but I often use an LC flatbread for cheese or egg sandwiches... and I have definitely partaken of the Bernstein Kool-aid. My carbs almost always run under 30 grams per day and my BGs stay in control as long as I don't drink coffee in the morning /sigh.

Why is LC bread problematic per Bernstein?

/smile


Bernstein considers most bread to be fast acting carbohydrate and unsuitable. He allows cooking with soy flour and also bran crackers like G/G, Wasa and another one i haven't found locally. When he originally wrote the book, I'm not sure how many low carb breads were on the market and I'm unsure of how he feels about the new products, but all bread/cereal products on his "no" list.

I've been testing various products, and since I'm a type I and produce no insulin, it's pretty easy to see the effect of them on my BG levels. One of my favorites is the Dixie Diner pancake mix. I had 4 for dinner (1 net carb per pancake) and it raised my BG levels 20 mg/dl and that is what I would expect for 4 grams of carbohydrate.

[eddiemcm]

I have good results with locarb pancakes,a single piece of
wholewheat bread, certain locarb pastas and locarb icecream.
I don't subscribe to the "Bernstein sez" club.My most recent
A1C was 5.5.I still test quite a bit.My doctor,also a diabetic,
advises me to quit testing and depend on A1C.I don't think
I should do that.
Happy mothers day,ladies
Eddie

[lowcarbUgh]

Eddie, type 2s are very stable compared to type 1s. I've been testing 6 times per day for at least 20 years. I couldn't imagine flying BG blind...

[eddiemcm]

lowcarbugh
I'm a type 2.Since Bernstein is a type 1, a lot of his stuff
appears to be mainly for type 1's.My BG is fairly stable as
long as I do my normal medium carb diet.When my diet goes
amuk,my BG readings go amuk.No big surprise there.
Wishing you the best.
Eddie

[Lottadata]

I would agree that Bernstein's main point is that you eat whatever gets you to normal blood sugar levels. For his patients, who have severe forms of both Type 1 and Type 2, that is usually 6-12-12.

But he discusses patients who eat more including those with physically demanding lifestyles.

I quibble with his definition of normal blood sugar, which is a bit too stringent in my mind and I also believe that people with diabetes should NOT eat soy because it has so many negative effects on hormones, including those of the thyroid.

Bernstein assumes that the thyroid slowing he sees in his patients is another autoimmune symptom, but that is not true. I have no autoimmune issues but I experience that slowing after prolonged LC eating, and eating soy really messes me up. Others have experienced this too, and Lyle MacDonald found research that detected thyroid slowing in people on prolonged ketogenic diets.

The book, The Whole Soy Story by Kaayla Daniels documents dozens of really negative effects of soy using peer reviewed research NOT supported by the soy industry to make her points.

Long term use of soy can cause depression, thyroid slowing, imbalances in sex hormones, and most importantly promote the development of food allergies due to some interactions with the intestinal linings.

[lowcarbUgh]

Incorporating soy flour and tofu into my diet has improved the quality of my life. If Dr. Bernstein doesn't have a problem with it, neither do I.

What is thyroid slowing anyway? An underactive thyroid?

[v-effect]

Most Type 1's thyroid diseases are autoimmune. Nothing to do with soy, so I guess I'll keep on keeping on with my tofu!

V

[eddiemcm]

It's been known for over 15 years that soy causes enlarging
of thyroid.Even though it's somewhat antisoy,check
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz.Maybe Bernstein should check
it also.
Oh well...
Eddie

[Lottadata]

The connection between soy and slowing thyroid function is very well known and not just on "fringe" health sites. You'll find it mentioned in many books written by M.D.s about thyroid disease.

Bernstein assumes that the thyroid dysfunction he sees in his patients is another autoimmune symptom, but I think he may be jumping to a conclusion not supported by evidence, because he also says he sees it in his Type 2s.

Only about 8% of Type 2 have autoimmune antibodies.

[Nancy LC]

There are a bunch of foods that are "goitrogenic". That's the term to google if you want to read up on it.

[lowcarbUgh]

Bernstein assumes that the thyroid dysfunction he sees in his patients is another autoimmune symptom, but I think he may be jumping to a conclusion not supported by evidence, because he also says he sees it in his Type 2s.

Only about 8% of Type 2 have autoimmune antibodies.

We don't know how many of his Type 2 patients even eat soy. Soy is not a common component of the average American diet. It appears that his Type 2 patients are, for the most part, obese. And I don't think they gained that weight grabbing TVP burgers at the health food store. My thyroid has continued to hover slightly below the "hyperactive" levels. I very much enjoy my soy flour wraps and pancakes and I would consider nixing soy if I actually saw a change in my thyroid workups, but until then, I shall enjoy a semblance of bread via soy and flax meal.

[lowcarbUgh]

There are a bunch of foods that are "goitrogenic". That's the term to google if you want to read up on it.

Thanks, Nancy, I did just that. I must say over my lifetime, I have eaten much more goitrogenic broccoli and cauliflower than soy.

[eddiemcm]

I did a bit more internet research on the soy-thyroid connection.
People who don't get enough iodine(seafood,sea veggies) are
supposedly more susceptable to that problem.
I gulp down quite a few of the Atkins Advantage shakes that
have a high soy content but my thyroid function is okay.
Eddie

[Cajunboy47]

Truthfully, I followed the Groves diet for over a year and he is strongly against the use of soy. I never really used soy, but after getting on the Groves diet, I avoided it like the plague.

Since I'm in China, I eat the black soy beans, green soy beans, soy bean sprouts, drink soy bean milk, eat several varities of tofu (made with soybeans), eat fried soy beans and different snacks made with soybeans.

If I've noticed anything, I've only noticed improvements in my health, but I'm not contributing it to my eating soy. I just don't think that soy, when eaten in moderation and in conjunction with a normal healthy diet, is harmful as claimed by so many studies.

When I return to the USA, I'm getting complete blood work and I'll mention this ahead of time to my Doctor about my soy consumption.

My only fear of soy (from things I've read) is that it blocks our ability to absorb nutrition from other foods. I think there's a scare tactic going on though, because from everything I've read, not one report mentioned a percentage of the nutrition that is blocked, or how much soy was consumed before it blocked the ability to absorb nutrition from other foods.

If my blood tests, in a month or two, prove that I'm not nutrition deficient, then in my opinion no one would become nutrition deficient from eating soy, as I doubt anyone is eating anywhere near the level I'm eating it right now.

From the changes I've made in my diet over the last year, what really scares me, more than soy, is the volume of animal protein I used to eat. I say this because that is the biggest change in my diet, and when I made that change that is when things really improved for me......

[Nancy LC]

Thanks, Nancy, I did just that. I must say over my lifetime, I have eaten much more goitrogenic broccoli and cauliflower than soy.
I think that for a lot of those foods cooking neutralizes most of it. I'm not sure about soy though. One thing I've read is that estrogen binds to thyroid and makes it unusable, so women on birth control often have bad thyroid numbers. I know that soy mimics estrogen so perhaps that is how that works.

I *love* eating cruciferous veggies so my philosophy is to eat them and take more thyroid hormone if I need it.

Oh, just caught the fact your thyroid is nearly hyperactive. In that case, eating lots of goitrogens will tone it down some if it is hyper. Not necessarily a bad thing.

[MizKitty]

I don't like chicken breasts myself. Are you trying to eat low fat? Why?

As already recommended, try chicken thighs. I love kabobs grilled with chunks of chicken thigh, steak, bacon, green pepper and onion.

I also watch for roasts on sale and cook them in the crock pot.
Do check out the recipe forums, I'm sure we all go through those "bored with our menu" periods and need to change it up from time to time.

You must be doing a really good job managing your diabetes, though, based on the small amount of insulin you take. Congratulations!

Char, I liked reading your recipe suggestions.

[Lottadata]

MizKitty,

Those stats are amazing!

I have a question for you: were you using insulin when you started the Bernstein diet, or was diet enough to bring your bg down?

[MizKitty]

Thank you Lottadata,

When I started at 310 pounds, I was a walking pharmacy, on 40 mg Actos, 1500 Metformin, 20 Glipizide, and 17 units Lantus, along with Lovastatin, Lisinopril, and Lasik for chronic cankles!

Through low carb and weight loss, I was able to drop all of that except for my current dose of 1000 metformin. My last A1c was 5.4. I don't know if I'll ever be able to get to the point where I'm controlled through diet alone, but it's still a goal I'd like to try for.

[lowcarbUgh]

I don't like chicken breasts myself. Are you trying to eat low fat? Why?

Heavens, no! Low carb + low fat = low quality of life!

I was watching an episode of "You Are What You Eat" today on BBCA and one of the "victims" of the veggie-juice queen summed it up most appropriately when she said "I miss my gravy." Now, if I could come up with a decent roux-less Marsala sauce, we would really be cooking. I've watched some of Blaine's low-carb shows and he uses egg yolks to thicken sauces. I've also considered Guar, but haven't tried that either. I make a bunch of different mayo-based sauces which I enjoy on fish, mostly white-meat fish like flounder, orange roughy and cod. I don't care for mayonaise based sauces on chicken.

I'm not much of a beef person, but a fillet mignon with bernaise doesn't sound half bad right now. I rather like stuffed peppers and cabbage with ground beef and crumbs. I'm thinking perhaps using TVP instead of bread crumbs?


Do check out the recipe forums, I'm sure we all go through those "bored with our menu" periods and need to change it up from time to time.

You must be doing a really good job managing your diabetes, though, based on the small amount of insulin you take. Congratulations!


What I need to do is figure out how to make the foods I really like low carb. I have an adversarial relationship with food and it sometimes becomes a rather mechanical process when eating. I've been "dieting" for so long.

I don't take much insulin because I'm not insulin resistant except when i'm sick and then it becomes almost impossible to control my BG levels. If I don't control my BG, I know I'm going to die an early death. I also feel bad with elevated blood glucose. It is such a PITA though. But it is better with Dr. B's method because you don't have the nasty surprises of high BG or hypos by guessing. My immune system attacks my insulin and the more insulin in inject, the better the chance my BG will not hit target. He is spot on about small numbers.

Susan

[Korban]

...I've also considered Guar, but haven't tried that either...
Susan

Guar gum is a good thickener and even more efficient is Xanthum gum (Kelzan). The Xanthum gum requires very small amounts but usually needs high shear (a food processor or blender). Xanthum gum is what is used in most Ketchups.

/smile

P.S. and edit - they may have a low shear version of Kelzan now - I know they were working on it a few years back...