Symlin Test - I can drink coffee in the morning - I think

[Korban]

Based on my last thread re: Symlin and reference therein I decided to test basal + 60 mcg of Symlin for breakfast - where my bg's are most labile. Coffee, particularly in the morning, sets my BG off the chart so I have had to give it up. I decided to do a worst case test where I eat my 4 gram carb omelet as I drink 2 cups of coffee. I take 20 (morning) + 11 units (evening) of Lantus a day. IMHO, the results are striking, at least to me and my coffee. :)

The results of several tests without Symlin and only one test (thus far) with Symlin are given in the link HERE (http://xerarc.com/bgs/index.htm) (since I don't know how to insert a pic file).

I should mention that I normalized the starting bg's at 93 for all the results in the tests. The basal only, with and without coffee, are values taken from several different mornings, so ranges are presented.

I have no clue how Symlin will act during my other meals and hypo is always a potential issue with it. It should not be used with meals under 250 or so calories according to one reference... (carbs were not stated).

The other benefit to Symlin is that it often lessens hunger and can be beneficial or neutral with respect to weight loss. It can cause GI issues for some people but I did not experience any.

I will test again in the morning with my coffee and will let you know if the single test results are fortuitous. For me, I am just excited at the possiblity of being able to drink coffee again in the morning.

/wave

P.S. Apparently, FDA is being petitioned as we speak to allow the use of Symlin with basal insulin. Presently, it is only labeled for use with bolus insulin. I guess they can put me in Gitmo if they find out - oh well.

[Cajunboy47]

When I hear about someone testing with how much more of a drug they need to take to offset a rise in BG from extra carbs or a drink they plan to have, such as coffee; it sort of sets off a little alarm in my head that something is not quite right about that process.... Does anyone else get that sort of feeling, or is it just me????

If I'm wrong, then what's next, a test to see how much of an increase in drugs is needed to offset eating a large candy bar?

I'm not providing any answers here. I'm only expressing my concern for my future self....

I know there might be a day in my future where I need to rely on insulin and such, but gosh, if I need insulin and or other drugs to be able to consume more of something that I should probably be doing without in the first place, then there isn't much hope for me.....

[Korban]

OMG... I wish I could be like you but in the meantime - why don't you be like you and I will be like me and try the best I can to normalize my BG's. You take
your drugs -- err natural remedies --- and I will take mine.

I haven't had coffee in weeks because of BG spikes from it - now I can have it and with excellent control. If that bothers you, well, I am sorry.
/smile

P.S. Note that with Symlin I get better control than with no coffee...

[Cajunboy47]

why don't you be like you and I will be like me and try the best I can to normalize my BG's. You take
your drugs -- err natural remedies --- and I will take mine.


absolutely no problem with that! :)

I just expressed my comments about how i felt after reading your posts. My feelings are my feelings, and if I have to depend on a future that does things that way, at this time, it makes me feel like life would feel hopeless!

Drugs seem liked an easy solution for me in the beginning, but eventually the same drugs became a problem in so many ways...
I am at least now able to enjoy a life, free from side effects!!!

by the way: you said you wished you could be like me... you are like me! In the past, I took extra chemical drugs so I could have my coffee or eat extra carbs, still do it from time to time with my herbal drugs, err natural remedies. :) I guess we all have to experiment till we realize there are some things we just can't overcome no matter how hard we try....... then we try something else

[Korban]

absolutely no problem with that! :)

I just expressed my comments about how i felt after reading your posts. My feelings are my feelings, and if I have to depend on a future that does things that way, at this time, it makes me feel like life would feel hopeless!

Drugs seem liked an easy solution for me in the beginning, but eventually the same drugs became a problem in so many ways...
I am at least now able to enjoy a life, free from side effects!!!

by the way: you said you wished you could be like me... you are like me! In the past, I took extra chemical drugs so I could have my coffee or eat extra carbs, still do it from time to time with my herbal drugs, err natural remedies. :) I guess we all have to experiment till we realize there are some things we just can't overcome no matter how hard we try....... then we try something else

Your feelings are yours and no one can take those from you... and mine are mine.

As a chemist I am well aware that chemicals come in various forms including natural components. I just happen to prefer purer isolates of materials that have some clinical basis behind them. However and unfortunately, these studies are often biased due to big pharm so I have to use my best judgement in these matters.

With the Symlin, for example, I have not been able to achieve that kind of BG control with my basal insulin and I believe first and foremost, control is tantamount to avoiding problems along the way. My diet is presently averaging 24 g carbs per day and that goes a long way to helping normalize the BG. Based on what I have heard and read re: amylin --> Symlin and what I have recently experienced, I am becoming a believer in it - not to use as an excuse to compromise my diet - but to gain better normalization.

Re: Coffee: I love two cups in the morning... always have, always will but gave that up as well for ungodly green tea. :) From my test this morning with Symlin, it gives better control with the coffee than if I just eat my 4g carb omelet and drink a cup of green tea... To me, that is win-win.

To my knowledge - with all the drugs I take - and some of them I must take including insulin - I have no adverse side effects to speak of. No dry cough from my ace inhibitor and so on. Quite the contrary, low carbs, insulin, and normal BG's has given me a life worth living - the cloud of depression is gone and my energy level is dramatically improved... I hope that, as I continue to lose weight that I will be able to lower my insulin requirements and who knows maybe cut out the ace. I will always have to take a beta blocker and to this medication my sister and I owe our very lives.

I am pleased that your way of living works for you. I am pleased my new way of living works for me. I won't hold your way of living or anyone's against them and I will try hard to be non-judgemental in their choices. Bottom line, all I have is my experience and the experience of others here. Some experience seems good for me, some does not... but everyone's own personal experience is valid to them, regardless of my opinion.

The purpose of my post was
1. to signal others to the potential benefit of Symlin or
2. to learn others experience with Symlin - if there is any... like - I used it for 6 months and then my left big toe rotted off... I would like to hear those kinds of experience.

With apologies for the diatribe,
/smile

[dancinbr]

Korban,

I need to learn more about Symlin before I do comment.

However, I have had all kinds of coffee and never really related it to any increase in BG.

Perhaps I should watch more closely.

Never thought it was a problem.

Now, are we talking caffeinated or decaf?

Thanks,

Ralph

[Korban]

Korban,

I need to learn more about Symlin before I do comment.

However, I have had all kinds of coffee and never really related it to any increase in BG.

Perhaps I should watch more closely.

Never thought it was a problem.

Now, are we talking caffeinated or decaf?

Thanks,

Ralph

Yes, caffeinated coffee in particular. It took me a week or two to figure our why my morning BG's would just take off - up to +56 points after 2 cups. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that it could not be due to DP and tested it. Eventually I had to give it up. Interestingly, even de-caf raises my bg almost half of what caf-coffee does. My endo said that it was probably due to other Xanthines (theophylline, theobromine) in coffee that are not removed during the de-caff process. Green tea which has more caffeine than de-caf coffee has almost no effect on my BG.

Apparently, I have a weird sensitivity to it.

/smile

[eddiemcm]

Frustrating fact about the big D:We are all so different.
Coffee doesn't bother my BG.
I am okay with original recipe KFC chicken,thin crust pizza.
Lean pork chops kill my BG.
Wow!!
Eddie

[dancinbr]

Eddie you are so right.

Coffee has never bothered me.

In fact, now that I think about it, it has no effect at all.

I had a good friend that swears that fat raises her BG a lot so she does all she can to avoid fat. I have a hard time believing this since everything I have read and learned about fat is it is BG neutral and its only effect may be to stretch out a high of a carb that it is mixed with such as ice cream.

Ralph

[v-effect]

Hi,

Symlin is not a "chemical drug." It is a replicant of a hormone found naturally in nondiabetic bodies. As a T1, I lack that hormone and I replace it with Symlin.
Now a question: What do you mean by saying that Symlin will be approved to use with basal?
Thanks!
V.

[Korban]

Hi,

Symlin is not a "chemical drug." It is a replicant of a hormone found naturally in nondiabetic bodies. As a T1, I lack that hormone and I replace it with Symlin.
Now a question: What do you mean by saying that Symlin will be approved to use with basal?
Thanks!
V.

From another post that I did :

FDA presently requires injection of a bolus and Symlin with meals but I found an overview of a study that used it effectively with Lantus and no bolus... comments look pretty encouraging re: A1c and weight, so.... nevermind. In a nutshell

http://www.emaxhealth.com/23/13315.html

"We are encouraged by the results from this study investigating the use of SYMLIN with an established regimen of basal, or long-acting, insulin," said Matthew C. Riddle, M.D., Professor of Medicine, Oregon Health & Science University. "Improved glucose control often is accompanied by weight-gain or increased hypoglycemia, but with this approach, neither of these problems occurred while glucose control improved."

I don't know if it will be approved for use with basal. In this report it states that - "Results from this study formed the basis of a supplemental New Drug Application submitted in the fourth quarter of 2006."


/smile

[Lottadata]

Korban,

Are you noticing any change in your appetite with Symlin?

Dr. B seems to think it controls appetite.

Also what kind of a change, overall, do you see it making in your bgs?

[Korban]

Korban,

Are you noticing any change in your appetite with Symlin?

Dr. B seems to think it controls appetite.

Also what kind of a change, overall, do you see it making in your bgs?

Initially, I noticed a bit of nausea but that passed within a week. My caloric intake has gone down for no apparent reason so I would say yes to lessening hunger... there was that one day that I had a porterhouse steak though... I didn't notice having to force my way through it.

If there is a difference in BG's which I can't rigorously document, it does seem to round out the values more, smaller peaks but longer rises overall. Integrate the curves over time and you will still find the same carbs/protein response but more gradual. I think that is somewhat beneficial. Again, it is unusual that I would eat a meal as high as 10 g carb so the response still appears fairly small.

Overall, I like the effect it seems to have on diet mediation and that is easier to verify quantitatively.

/smile