Am I diabetic?

[Sunflwr1]

Hi All! My name is Marcia. I'm 57, 5'9", and 179... I've been LCing since the first of the year, lost 20 lb., but I'm scared!

I had my physical in late Feb.my Dr. ordered, among others, a FBG test. The nurse called me a few days later and said the result was 105, it was the high side of normal, but was OK. When I received the written report of all my results it read that I was in the normal range for FBG and I did not have diabetes. So I thought great and went on my merry way.

There was something in one of the LC forums that I frequent that led me to, I believe Jenny's site that got me thinking about my result. I went out and bought the ReliOn Meter and have been testing my BG. I hope you don't mind if I post my results.

Sat:
126 when I first woke up ( I am hypothyroid so I have to wait an hour after I take my pill before I can eat)
142 - before breakfast ( I had coffee)
167- 1 hr. (had 1/2 small red grapefruit with eggs and bacon)
105 - 2 hrs
97 - before lunch
101 - 1 hr
107 - 2 hr.
102 - before dinner
104 - 1 hr.
120 - 2 hr.
120 - before I went to bed

Sun:
115 - first woke up
125 - before breakfast
126 - 1 hr.
109 - 2 hr.
105 - before lunch
113 - 1 hr.
100 - 2 hr.
94 - before dinner
93 - 1 hr.
109 - 2 hr
117 - before bed

Mon:
118 - first woke up
134 - before breakfast
126 - 1 hr.
100 - 2 hr.
100 - before lunch
this day I decided to take the test on Jenny's site. I had 2 cups of white rice with soy sauce. (70 carbs)
193 - 1 hr.
151 - 2 hr.
137 - 3 hr. Then I had dinner. Tested again right before I went to bed and it was 104

Today:
109 - woke up
120 - before breakfast
123 - 1 hr.
121 - before lunch
106 - 1 - 1/2 hr
105 - before dinner
106 - 2 hr.

Sorry for such a long post, but I guess you can tell that I'm a bit afraid! Looks like I have to eliminate fruit and even coffee... some of those morning readings were with decaf. Didn't seem to help! Not too happy about that :cry: I did buy Dr. B's book and read it in 1 day. I've been pretty much under 20 carbs for nearly 3 months... I hate to think of what my BS was then, all I ate was garbage!!! This is all my fault, I let it happen and now I have to pay the price...

So, what do you think? Am I diabetic? Pre-diabetic? Sure would like your input and advice! Thanks so much for listening!

[Daryl]

Hi, and welcome, Marcia :wave:

First, don't be scared. Knowledge is power, and if you're willing to work at it, you can control these numbers.

Officially, the ADA says:

Normal fasting blood glucose is below 100 mg/dl. A person with pre-diabetes has a fasting blood glucose level between 100 and 125 mg/dl. If the blood glucose level rises to 126 mg/dl or above, a person has diabetes.

Whatever you choose to call it, you do have an issue with your blood sugar. But, if you tackle it now, you can whip it. My FBS was 339 when I was diagnosed, now it stays in the 80s.

[Sunflwr1]

Hi Daryl! :wave:

Thanks so much for the welcome and the encouragement! I really feel so much better with just those few words! I am definitely willing to work at it! I was so surprised and I must say disappointed to see what effect coffee has on my BS! Grrrr! Tomorrow will be my first morning without it... I can do this... I quit smoking 4 years so I know I can do this... I'll see what happens to my BS. I want to do whatever I can to take control. I have a lot more years in me and I want to be able to enjoy them! :)

Thanks again...

Daryl, I meant to ask you... are you on any medication or are you able to control it with diet and exercise?

[Daryl]

Hi Daryl! :wave:

Thanks so much for the welcome and the encouragement! I really feel so much better with just those few words! I am definitely willing to work at it! I was so surprised and I must say disappointed to see what effect coffee has on my BS! Grrrr! Tomorrow will be my first morning without it... I can do this... I quit smoking 4 years so I know I can do this... I'll see what happens to my BS. I want to do whatever I can to take control. I have a lot more years in me and I want to be able to enjoy them! :)

Thanks again...

Daryl, I meant to ask you... are you on any medication or are you able to control it with diet and exercise?

That's the attitude :agree: I miss soooo many things, but none of them mean more to me than my health.

When I was diagnosed, I started out on 4 pills a day; after going low carb, I was able to completly get off meds, haven't had to take any in several months :) I was terrified of the thought of having to take insulin, but if it ever comes to that, I will.

Are you on meds? (edited to add: surely you aren't, if you haven't been diagnosed -- duh me, it's been a long day :lol: )

[Korban]

Welcome and keep coming back Marcia... lots of wisdom, experience, and hope here.

/smile

[Cajunboy47]

Sunflwr1:

It's possilbe if you're really feeling stressed about being a diabetic, those numbers can be up by 10 points or so more than they normally might be...

I'd err on the side of caution, consider I might be pre-diabetic at the least and get a second opinion, but knowing what I know now, I wouldn't rely on Doctors for my health, but rather I'd start getting involved in learning all I can, changing my lifestyle accordingly if necessary and while learning not to stress over my life's situation...

[RobLL]

Coffee may not be the culprit: I would suspect dawn phenomena: See Dr: Bersteins book.

[Sunflwr1]

That's the attitude :agree: I miss soooo many things, but none of them mean more to me than my health.

Thanks again, Daryl... I will definitely have to keep that thought in mind. It is so true!

When I was diagnosed, I started out on 4 pills a day; after going low carb, I was able to completly get off meds, haven't had to take any in several months :) I was terrified of the thought of having to take insulin, but if it ever comes to that, I will.That's fabulous and very encouraging!

Korban... Thanks for the welcome! I really appreciate it!

Cajunboy... I happen to agree with you, my doctor said I was not diabetic, not to worry. Perhaps I'm not, but I'm pretty darn close so that's why I decided to test on my own. I'm going to keep testing this month and then determine if I need to get her involved for more testing. I don't want "Diabetic" in my medical record if I can help it.

Coffee may not be the culprit: I would suspect dawn phenomena: See Dr: Bersteins book.Oh Rob! That would be so wonderful! I dearly love my coffee in the morning even if I have to go decaf. When I woke up this morning my BS was 102. Now I'm waiting my 1 hr. before I can have breakfast and then I'll check it again. If it goes up without coffee then I'll suspect DP is the culprit. I wonder if it could my hypothyroid meds? Hmmm...

I thank all of you for responding... you've been so helpful!

[dancinbr]

Welcome.

The best thing you can do is to follow all the suggestions you have read.

Whether you are "officially" diabetic or NOT isn't the point.

You are headed that way.

So, gain control right now.

My Doctor saw the warning signs for me in the early 2006 and made a very small statement to me about losing weight. My A1C had gone over 6. It was 6.3 or something in that range.

But he didn't sound the alarm. So I went about my business for a whole year. I switched doctors late 2006 early 2007 and went for another physical; I go annually and this Doctor sounded the alarm. My A1C had gone from 6.3 up to 9.6, I believe during 2006 early 2007. My BG levels were over 300 and probably were over 300 for most of the year 2006.

Had I known in 2006 I would have been a year wiser and controlling much sooner.

So my point is be happy you have someone who cared enough to sound the alarm.

So, become your own advocate. Learn and read. Poke around all over the place in this forum. You will find so many people with so much "real" experience to share. You will end up more educated on diabetes than the typical Doctor believe it or not.

Many people can control this with diet control, some do natural methods and some do medicines.

I have tried many. I ended up on insulin, both basal and fast acting. It works for me now based on where I am at.

My goal is to have an A1C under 5.0. Normal is 4.2-4.6 according to Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution book.

Also, I am learning to keep spikes from happening in my BG. This is when the damage can occur to your vital organs. Keep your spikes under 120 is ideal and 140 is not so bad. Spikes above that are troublesome. But it also takes years of abuse for many people to sadly end up with all the dreaded complications that can happen.

So, you have done a great thing by starting your journey here with all of us.

Read, read, practice, make mistakes, try different approaches. Find what works for you.

I believe you can do quite well and do so quickly.

By my switching to LCing and staying under 60 carbs per day evenly distributed I brought my A1C down from 9.3 or 9.6 to 5.4 within 3 months.

Yes, I also take Metformin ER 1000mg in the AM and 1000mg in the PM.

Now I take a basal insulin so that my readings are now typically below 100 and keep my BG rises in a much tighter range between 70-120 most of the time.

We all make mistakes, but don't go crazy on yourself. Just do your best, learn from your mistakes and learn what works for you.

Many here are strict advocates of Dr. B's 6-12-12 regimen of carbs with 5 hour fasting in between and do fantastic. But again, you must find what works for you and your lifestyle.

Be well.

You are on your way to being well.

Ralph

[Rose1942]

Hi Marcia, welcome! First of all, you said this (getting ready to quote you, hee hee) and I never wanna hear you say this again:

You said: 'This is all my fault, I let it happen and now I have to pay the price...'

No it's NOT your fault, get that right outa your head!!!!

Ok that's over with, now let's get down to business! Your BG's aren't all that bad except for a few, especially that 197 where you had 2 cups of white rice, but at least you know now what a lot of white rice will do to you! The good thing is that you are low carbing, and this is only going to improve with time. It did for me, and I knew absolutely nothing about diabetes or low carb until I was diagnosed back in December. You learn fast what spikes your sugar and what foods to avoid. You seem to be keeping your average BG's around 100 and your post prandials aren't terrible - look at them, many under 120 which isn't bad at all. They look like mine, and I am just grateful that I can keep them at this level for now.

I think you have to be patient, you can't go to a 'normal' average of 83 -85 ish overnight, but it's certainly possible according to Dr. Bernstein, so just keep doing what you are doing and try your best. The important thing is to try and keep the BG's out of the danger zone and you are already mostly there - you will get better and better at this once you figure out the little tweaks that work for your own body. I know for instance, that I can have 1/2 a grapefruit but I can't have it WITH something like a slice of whole wheat toast. Either one alone works for me, not both. Someone else may be different, or not be able to have either one, ever. We all have our own tolerances or lack of.

We are lucky to have a condition like diabetes, in the sense that if it is recognized at an early stage we can actually do something about it to help ourselves. There are a lot of things where that is not possible - in fact some things are a lot worse, we all know what they are..... (shudder!)

Keep up the good work, and keep coming to these forums - it helps a lot to have friendly companions who are all in the same boat :)

[swirlygirl]

Welcome! I am also a coffee lover, and I've switched over to decaf and haven't had a problem. I initially had a very strong problem with my morning BG numbers, but after a few weeks of conscious control of my daily numbers, they have improved, and now I'm almost always under 100 when I wake up.

One thing that effects me now is if I eat too close to bed time. If I have about 4 hours between dinner and sleeping, and a low carb dinner, I'm ok in the morning. I can have more carbs with lunch and still keep my levels OK.

[Sunflwr1]

Ralph... thank you so much! That was a wonderful reply. So much info and so encouraging. Doctors can really be scary! My Dr. said that I didn't have diabetes, that my BS was normal. After doing some reading I decided to start checking my BS myself. A week ago I was as carefree as a lark, but I am so glad that I delved into it and became aware. My mother died almost 2 years ago of pancreatic cancer that I'm sure was caused my her uncontrolled T2 diabetes. She never took it seriously... I am going to take the month of April to try and keep my BS levels down, if I feel I can't do it alone I will call my Dr. I would truly like to avoid having diabetes in my health record. If it has to be then it has to be, but I'm hoping I can control it myself. I think I can... Ok, I know I can! ;)

Hi Rose... and thank you for another wonderfully encouraging reply. No it's NOT your fault, get that right outa your head!!!! I appreciate that Rose, but if you only knew the garbage I ate... with no respect for body but, thank you!:-) I'm already starting to learn about foods that cause problems... I sure wish I didn't have issues with grapefruit... perhaps in time I can try again. I try to look at this as an adventure, to see what works and what doesn't. This morning I had roasted asparagus along with leftover pork roast and my breakfast BS went from 106 to 127 postprandial (I'm already learning new terminology). So I think I'm learning that raw veggies don't seem to have the same effect that cooked ones to. I think Dr. Bernstein mentions that... I would still like to lose another 25-30 lb. I'm thinking that should help too, right? I have started to get out an walk again... haven't done much of any exercise all winter. Not good!

swirlygirl... ahhh so you know how I feel. I did go without today... can't believe it but, I did and actually it didn't bother me all that much. At some point I may give decaf a try again and see what happens. *sigh* Last night I tried a Pepsi One (made with Splenda) and it didn't raise my BS... in fact it went down so when I checked it right before bed it was 96. I was thrilled!

Thanks again... to all of you!

[MizKitty]

Welcome Marcia. I'm so glad you found us. Wonder if you're just really smart or really lucky? lol Seriously, there are so many diabetes forums out there where they talk about eating their low fat and healthy carbs and go on more and more meds with higher and higher numbers and more and more complications, it's not even funny. Sometimes I lurk and just sit there shaking my head.

I'm going to say something you may not want to hear.... I think you are early diabetic. I'm going to link you to a blog by our member Lottadata, which I see you've already been reading, to see if you've found this article yet that explains how when most folks finally get a diagnosis from a doctor, they've actually had diabetes for up to 10 years, and why doctors are so late to diagnose.

So instead of you waiting for another 3 or 4 for an official diagnosis, you can start acting like you do now, and get a jump on reversing it, and never seeing that diagnosis.

A whole page of relevant articles:
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/search?q=diabetes+diagnosis+10+years

How and why the ADA Keeps Doctors from Diagnosing Early Diabetes - by Lottadata
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046782.php

[bornabrat]

Hi All! My name is Marcia. I'm 57, 5'9", and 179... I've been LCing since the first of the year, lost 20 lb., but I'm scared!

I had my physical in late Feb.my Dr. ordered, among others, a FBG test. The nurse called me a few days later and said the result was 105, it was the high side of normal, but was OK. When I received the written report of all my results it read that I was in the normal range for FBG and I did not have diabetes. So I thought great and went on my merry way.

There was something in one of the LC forums that I frequent that led me to, I believe Jenny's site that got me thinking about my result. I went out and bought the ReliOn Meter and have been testing my BG. I hope you don't mind if I post my results.

Sat:
126 when I first woke up ( I am hypothyroid so I have to wait an hour after I take my pill before I can eat)
142 - before breakfast ( I had coffee)
167- 1 hr. (had 1/2 small red grapefruit with eggs and bacon)
105 - 2 hrs
97 - before lunch
101 - 1 hr
107 - 2 hr.
102 - before dinner
104 - 1 hr.
120 - 2 hr.
120 - before I went to bed

Sun:
115 - first woke up
125 - before breakfast
126 - 1 hr.
109 - 2 hr.
105 - before lunch
113 - 1 hr.
100 - 2 hr.
94 - before dinner
93 - 1 hr.
109 - 2 hr
117 - before bed

Mon:
118 - first woke up
134 - before breakfast
126 - 1 hr.
100 - 2 hr.
100 - before lunch
this day I decided to take the test on Jenny's site. I had 2 cups of white rice with soy sauce. (70 carbs)
193 - 1 hr.
151 - 2 hr.
137 - 3 hr. Then I had dinner. Tested again right before I went to bed and it was 104

Today:
109 - woke up
120 - before breakfast
123 - 1 hr.
121 - before lunch
106 - 1 - 1/2 hr
105 - before dinner
106 - 2 hr.

Sorry for such a long post, but I guess you can tell that I'm a bit afraid! Looks like I have to eliminate fruit and even coffee... some of those morning readings were with decaf. Didn't seem to help! Not too happy about that :cry: I did buy Dr. B's book and read it in 1 day. I've been pretty much under 20 carbs for nearly 3 months... I hate to think of what my BS was then, all I ate was garbage!!! This is all my fault, I let it happen and now I have to pay the price...

So, what do you think? Am I diabetic? Pre-diabetic? Sure would like your input and advice! Thanks so much for listening!


Hello Marcia! :wave:

Was your Doctor an Endocrinologist? If he wasn't, I would advise you to visit one and give them the same information you gave us. Then go from there.

[Sunflwr1]

I'm going to say something you may not want to hear.... I think you are early diabetic. I'm going to link you to a blog by our member Lottadata, which I see you've already been reading, to see if you've found this article yet that explains how when most folks finally get a diagnosis from a doctor, they've actually had diabetes for up to 10 years, and why doctors are so late to diagnose. Hi Karen, thanks for the welcome. Yes! That's the article I read that got me to thinking and why I bought a meter and started testing my BS. I think I'm lucky for sure!

Karen, Congratulations of your weight loss! That is fantastic!!!

Was your Doctor an Endocrinologist? If he wasn't, I would advise you to visit one and give them the same information you gave us. Then go from there.No, she's an Internist, but for the month of April I'm going to see if I can take charge of my BG. Trying to find a Dr. who is not entrenched in low fat/high carb is such a crap shoot!

[pennink]

I have to say, you sound like me last year. THANK GOD I went on Atkins.

I reversed heart disease and I'm no longer pre-diabetic. I went on Atkins after a kind doctor I happened to meet on a plane told me to go on it to save my life. My own doctor was against it. Now she's the biggest proponent of it since Dr A himself.

so so happy you found us! (((hugs)))

[triplemom]

Marcia, welcome! It looks like you're really committed to nipping this BS thing in the bud, and fortunately, you didn't wait too long to start. I had a high sugar 2 years ago (188) at my employee physical. It was right after lunch (high carb, of course). The nurse told me to check my blood sugars and see my doctor, which I promptly did. He ran the usual fasting tests, which came out just fine, handed me the 1200 calorie ADA diet sheet, and sent me on my way. He didn't tell me to test or anything, just said everything was fine. Fast forward 2 years later to last summer - I felt terrible all summer and was draining the ice bucket because I had a thirst that couldn't be satisfied. A little light bulb went off in my head and I started checking my sugars with my old meter and was getting readings well over 200. I went back to the doctor, who wasn't going to do a thing because my fasting once again was "borderline." He finally ordered a glucose tolerance test, where my 1 hour was 309 and my 2-hour was 255, and the "official diagnosis" was made. You can find other posts on this forum about my frustration with diabetic education.

There are some great books out there. The Bernstein book is good, which you already read, and his story is amazing. I would also recommend The First Year, Type 2 Diabetes by Gretchen Becker. It also addresses prediabetes. It's not too technical and is a pretty easy read. I got mine off Amazon.

I'm sorry about your mom. My dad died of pancreatic cancer 5 years ago - it's a horrible disease. He ate/drank whatever he wanted. I'm with you on taking this seriously and not waiting! I went through my "pity party" for a few months, but then I got my act together (for the most part).

Good luck to you!

[pennink]

what a great story Triplemom!

Glad you took care of yourself!

[Rose1942]

Marcia, about the beverages - what works well for me as far as coffee goes is to get one of the blends that is mixed high octane and low. Maxwell House's is called 'Lite' and Folgers has one that is called 'half caf'. I too like my coffee and I want a little caffeine but not too much, it does seem to raise my sugar somewhat. Or, you can always just mix a pound of regular and a pound of decaf together in a container, I do that sometimes when decaf is on sale (rarely, 'cause they soak you for decaf).

I haven't tried Pepsi One but I have tried Coke Zero and I love it. It does have caffeine but the rest of it seems very benign. It tastes much better to me than Diet Coke, which always leaves an aftertaste in my mouth. I don't drink much soda anyway, but sometimes ya just want one!

I think I have to agree with MizKitty that you are early diabetic, perhaps in the same range as I am because we both seem to be showing the same numbers (roughly) going on low carb, and my numbers were similar to yours at the beginning. I don't excercise much either, but now that it is Spring here I walk my dogs a little longer every morning and sometimes evenings too. I have 4 little rescues so there is plenty of walking to be done if i want to. Funny thing is, though, I didn't lose weight because of excercise, it just came off on the diet, although I have more energy for walking now that I am thinner, plus I just feel better in general. It sort of seems to come naturally, and I don't think about it that much, nor do I obcess about it. Don't knock yourself out until you truly feel like it, I think that is the thing for us ladies 'of a certain age' - we do what we can do, we just can't jump into a workout routine like we used to.

You're doing so well, I think you will be very successful in controlling this. You have the right mindset and that is more than half the battle!

I still say you should not blame yourself for becoming diabetic. We all ate garbage probably, but that isn't all there is too it. If we have the genetic tendancy it will probably surface eventually, and there can be many triggers, not just food. Gretchen Becker, in her book 'The First Year' says this about genetic predisposition: (quoted roughly) 'A person can lie around on the sofa all the time eating chips and junk and watching tv with no excercise at all, and they probably will get fat, but if they don't have the gene for diabetes they won't get diabetes.'

Of course they may get something else with a routine like that, lol - nobody gets off scot free! But diabetes? Nope.

[triplemom]

I still say you should not blame yourself for becoming diabetic. We all ate garbage probably, but that isn't all there is too it. If we have the genetic tendancy it will probably surface eventually, and there can be many triggers, not just food. Gretchen Becker, in her book 'The First Year' says this about genetic predisposition: (quoted roughly) 'A person can lie around on the sofa all the time eating chips and junk and watching tv with no excercise at all, and they probably will get fat, but if they don't have the gene for diabetes they won't get diabetes.'

I felt incredibly guilty when I was first diagnosed, like "what have I done to myself?" I haven't even told my mother about my diagnosis because she's been badgering me for years about losing weight - I can just hear "I TOLD YOU SO" reverberating in my head at the thought of even telling her...isn't that terrible?

[awriter]

about the beverages - what works well for me as far as coffee goes is to get one of the blends that is mixed high octane and low. Maxwell House's is called 'Lite' and Folgers has one that is called 'half caf'. I too like my coffee and I want a little caffeine but not too much, it does seem to raise my sugar somewhat.

I'm new here, and luckily do not have Diabetes, but I would like to chime in with a bit of information about coffee and caffeine that might help those who are.

Part of the problem with the American way of drinking coffee is that they mostly brew it in a drip style, coarsely ground, and often too weak at that. The brew time, grind and the strength is actually what 'releases' the caffeine from the bean into the coffee cup. The longer the brew time, the coarser the grind, and weaker the strength - the more caffeine in the cup. A whopping lot.

On the other hand, counter-intuitive though it is, an espresso brewed from the same bean/roast or even darker, will have an fraction of the caffeine; tiny in fact. That's because the grind is fine, there's a lot of grind tamped down in the container, and the water whizzes through in seconds, not minutes.

I not only have a home espresso maker, I have a home coffee bean roaster and roast my own beans. I'm able to get all fair trade and organic coffee - types from all over the world - and roast enough beans exactly the way I like them to last a week, in just fifteen minutes. I'd never go back to drinking drip coffee or store-bought roasted beans, and not just because I pay about 1/3 the price for my green beans as you pay for pre-roasted - it just tastes so good and is always amazingly fresh. :)

Those who love their coffee might want to consider saving their money and their health by going espresso, and there are now a ton of very affordable, easy-to-use-and-clean machines for the home available these days. If anyone wants some tips on what to look for, etc. please let me know.

Lisa

[pennink]

I felt incredibly guilty when I was first diagnosed, like "what have I done to myself?" I haven't even told my mother about my diagnosis because she's been badgering me for years about losing weight - I can just hear "I TOLD YOU SO" reverberating in my head at the thought of even telling her...isn't that terrible?


That's how I feel too when I was told I had heart disease. I just sat there, with a roaring in my ears, mutely listening to the doctor with his little plastic heart model explaining what I'd done to myself.

How could I have almost taken my daughter's mother away from her?

[muffles]

I felt incredibly guilty when I was first diagnosed, like "what have I done to myself?" I haven't even told my mother about my diagnosis because she's been badgering me for years about losing weight - I can just hear "I TOLD YOU SO" reverberating in my head at the thought of even telling her...isn't that terrible?
I haven't told my mum either. I feel so guilty about it, I have had warning signs and of course been very overweight for years now. I told myself that I hadn't told my mum because she has just left on a big trip and I didn't want to spoil it by worrying, but really I am ashamed to admit what is going on.
I'm hoping by the time she is back (4 months) I will have some positive results to show her.

[MizKitty]

Awriter, that's interesting about the coffee, thanks.

Triplemom and Muffles, sounds like you need to have a printout of Lottadata's excellent article "You Did NOT Eat Your Way to Diabetes" handy when you tell your mothers.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php

(Bonus... there's a section in there that blames the mother...heehee)

[Sunflwr1]

Wow! That is wonderful, Pennick! I guess you were in the right place and the right time... similar to how I feel when I decided to take a look at the Diabetic Forum over at Jimmy Moore's. Who knows when it would have been discovered!

Marcia, welcome! It looks like you're really committed to nipping this BS thing in the bud, and fortunately, you didn't wait too long to start. I had a high sugar 2 years ago (188) at my employee physical. It was right after lunch (high carb, of course). The nurse told me to check my blood sugars and see my doctor, which I promptly did. He ran the usual fasting tests, which came out just fine, handed me the 1200 calorie ADA diet sheet, and sent me on my way. He didn't tell me to test or anything, just said everything was fine. Fast forward 2 years later to last summer - I felt terrible all summer and was draining the ice bucket because I had a thirst that couldn't be satisfied. A little light bulb went off in my head and I started checking my sugars with my old meter and was getting readings well over 200. I went back to the doctor, who wasn't going to do a thing because my fasting once again was "borderline." He finally ordered a glucose tolerance test, where my 1 hour was 309 and my 2-hour was 255, and the "official diagnosis" was made. You can find other posts on this forum about my frustration with diabetic education. What is it with doctors??? IMO my doctor should have been a bit concerned. Obviously by looking at me I have Metabolic Syndrome and with this belly I am obviously insulin resistance and with a slightly high FBG. You'd think that T2 might have crossed her mind. I just don't get it!

There are some great books out there. The Bernstein book is good, which you already read, and his story is amazing. I would also recommend The First Year, Type 2 Diabetes by Gretchen Becker. It also addresses prediabetes. It's not too technical and is a pretty easy read. I got mine off Amazon. I wanted to tell you and Rose that I bought the book during lunch hour today... began reading it. I think it's going to be very helpful!

I'm sorry about your mom. My dad died of pancreatic cancer 5 years ago - it's a horrible disease. He ate/drank whatever he wanted. I'm with you on taking this seriously and not waiting! I went through my "pity party" for a few months, but then I got my act together (for the most part).Thank you... and sorry for your Dad as well. Even though they are to pass before us it's never easy losing a parent.


Marcia, about the beverages - what works well for me as far as coffee goes is to get one of the blends that is mixed high octane and low. Maxwell House's is called 'Lite' and Folgers has one that is called 'half caf'. I too like my coffee and I want a little caffeine but not too much, it does seem to raise my sugar somewhat. Or, you can always just mix a pound of regular and a pound of decaf together in a container, I do that sometimes when decaf is on sale (rarely, 'cause they soak you for decaf). Decaf seemed to spike my BS too! What's with that? I've gone 2 days without and actually have been doing fine, no headaches. Might be difficult this weekend...

I haven't tried Pepsi One but I have tried Coke Zero and I love it. It does have caffeine but the rest of it seems very benign. It tastes much better to me than Diet Coke, which always leaves an aftertaste in my mouth. I don't drink much soda anyway, but sometimes ya just want one! I really like it and I'm thrilled that it looks like it's going to be ok.

I think I have to agree with MizKitty that you are early diabetic, perhaps in the same range as I am because we both seem to be showing the same numbers (roughly) going on low carb, and my numbers were similar to yours at the beginning.It certainly is possible, but I'm going to give it til May and see what I can do. If I am, I am, but at least I'll be armed with knowledge! You probably said this but are you a diagnosed T2? Are you on any meds?

You're doing so well, I think you will be very successful in controlling this. You have the right mindset and that is more than half the battle! Thanks!

I still say you should not blame yourself for becoming diabetic. We all ate garbage probably, but that isn't all there is too it. If we have the genetic tendancy it will probably surface eventually, and there can be many triggers, not just food. Gretchen Becker, in her book 'The First Year' says this about genetic predisposition: (quoted roughly) 'A person can lie around on the sofa all the time eating chips and junk and watching tv with no excercise at all, and they probably will get fat, but if they don't have the gene for diabetes they won't get diabetes.' You're right!!! I bought the book and that's what it says! I thought you were just being nice... thank you!

Those who love their coffee might want to consider saving their money and their health by going espresso, and there are now a ton of very affordable, easy-to-use-and-clean machines for the home available these days. Thanks Lisa I may give Espresso a try!

Rhonda and Muffles... We love our mothers, but sometimes!!! Mine necer said anything to me about my weight because was very heavy and an untreated T2, but she sure laid quilt trips on my in other ways... but, I loved her with all my heart! I miss her...

[Rose1942]

Awriter - thanks for the expresso tips, definitely something to look in to! I do have a little filter carafe and use that sometimes - it makes delicious coffee. But it's not practical around here because my husband won't go to that trouble and just wants to push a button and get coffee in 5 minutes. He gets up first so that's the way it is here unless I want to get up at 4 am, And make 2 kinds of coffee (NO!!!)

Marcia you may be wise to keep diabetes off your medical records for as long as you can. I don't know whether you work or not, but if you do and try to change jobs, that could work against you, both by the employers and the insurance companies. It isn't fair to people like us who are doing a fine job of controlling the disease, but that's the way it is, unfortunately. You are a long way from Medicare and you sure don't want to be put into the position of having to buy your own insurance for a lot of years and finding that because of the word 'diabetes' you are in the high risk (and super high premium) pool. I bet there are others here who have fallen into that lousy trap when in fact they are healthier than they would have been if they followed the ADA diet and advice, and will probably never require the astronomical medical expenses of those poor misguided people.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot - yes I am Type 2. And I am not on any meds (so far and trying to keep it that way if the Good Lord is willing and the creek don't rise.....)

[Sunflwr1]

Hi Rose :wave: Thanks for another wonderful post!

I've worked for the same DDS for the last 22 years. He'll be retiring in the next 2-4 years. I plan on hanging in there that long, but then I hope to retire when he does so I will probably have to self pay for a while and you're right... I sure don't want it in my medical record if I can help it. The only thing is I would love to get some Metformin ER to help with weight loss. It's coming off so s-l-o-w!

Are all of you on a reduced calorie diet? It seems that's what Dr. Bernstein wants you to do along with smaller protein portions. I have a tremendous appetite... I really thought with LCing, calories was not an issue. Perhaps if you have diabetes it is? I'm trying to be more careful but a 4 oz steak isn't enough for me!

Well, I'm off to read more of Gretchen Becker...

[awriter]

Awriter - thanks for the espresso tips, definitely something to look in to! I do have a little filter carafe and use that sometimes - it makes delicious coffee. But it's not practical around here because my husband won't go to that trouble and just wants to push a button and get coffee in 5 minutes. He gets up first so that's the way it is here unless I want to get up at 4 am, And make 2 kinds of coffee (NO!!!)

Rose (and everyone) - please call me Lisa. :)

First the bad news: making coffee using a filter is exactly the same as making a big pot of drip coffee. The grind is coarse and the water goes through slowly. An espresso maker sends the water through the fine grind under immense pressure - that's why espresso makers list what 'bar' level their pump uses. The higher the 'bar' - as in, "this machine has 18 bars" - the more powerful the pump and the faster the water is pushed through.

The good news: there's nothing easier or more convenient than a "super-automatic" espresso maker. That's what I have.

When I wander downstairs in the morning, my Capresso has already turned itself on, warmed up the cups resting on top, and is ready to roll.

The beans (enough for a week) are in the bean container. I push one of several buttons (depending on whether I want an espresso, two cups at once, a Latte or even an Americano) - and the beans grind themselves to the precise setting and amount for that cup. The tamper tamps the grounds down by itself, and within *seconds* my espresso is in my cup. The machine dumps the used grounds into an inner bin automatically, and is ready to make another cup. Instantly. I just dump out the contents of the bin once a week and refill the water and beans.

Even the foam for latte is automatic. I hook up the hose to one end, dunk the other in the milk or cream container and voila - thick, steamy, delicious foam comes out the spigot into my cup. The machine stays on as long as I want (all day), then rinses itself, turns itself off and goes to sleep, ready for tomorrow.

It 'tells' me it's made 5, 768 cups of coffee since it's birth at the factory (I bought it used), and I fully expect it to make another 6,000 one-button, automatic cups before it goes to its reward in that vast coffee heaven in the sky.

I'm so spoiled that having to actually 'make' a pot of coffee by myself would be waaaay too much work, and you'd have to pry my Capresso out of my cold, dead hands. Still clutching that last, delicious cappuchino of course :)

Lisa

[Rose1942]

I dunno Marcia...... the minute you get a script for Metaformin, the word is out unless Metaformin can be used for anything except diabetes (I have no experience with diabetes meds but that is what I assume). If it were me I would hold off and see how the weight loss goes, it might just kick in for you without using meds to jumpstart it. I think someone else with more knowledge should be able to help you, I'm just not sure.

As for a low calorie diet, LC pretty much falls into that catagory because there aren't any calorie laden desserts and such. Think of all the bread that we give up, for one thing. However, we do eat some rich and creamy stuff (like mmmmm real whipping cream and real cheese and real meat with fat!). But those are not necessarily the calories that stick with you, they do burn for energy now that we aren't giving our bodies much of any glucose to burn. Probably not a problem to have a bigger steak than 4 oz, and add some more fresh cooked veggies for the bulk that fills you up. Portions are not so much a problem with this type of diet as long as you don't overstuff yourself and run into problems that way. Personally I can't take in a lot of food at one sitting, it makes me feel rotten, but I suppose everyone has their own 'right' capacity.

[Rose1942]

Oh WOW Lisa - Now you've got me totally interested in an expresso machine! I had no idea they did all that! Thanks for all that information!

[Sunflwr1]

Rose, I did read that some doctors prescribe it for weight loss, but I'm not going to pursue it now. My weight is going down... just slower than I'd like. :) I also like the idea of it making my cells more sensitive to insulin and if course helping with the BG level down.

As for a low calorie diet, LC pretty much falls into that catagory because there aren't any calorie laden desserts and such. Think of all the bread that we give up, for one thing. However, we do eat some rich and creamy stuff (like mmmmm real whipping cream and real cheese and real meat with fat!). But those are not necessarily the calories that stick with you, they do burn for energy now that we aren't giving our bodies much of any glucose to burn. Probably not a problem to have a bigger steak than 4 oz, and add some more fresh cooked veggies for the bulk that fills you up. Portions are not so much a problem with this type of diet as long as you don't overstuff yourself and run into problems that way. Personally I can't take in a lot of food at one sitting, it makes me feel rotten, but I suppose everyone has their own 'right' capacity. Weight Watchers I would consider low calorie. I lost 37 lb. 2 years ago on that... reached my goal weight, made Lifetime and then gained it all back! I think my average calories with their point system was between 1200-1400. With LC I'd say I average around 1800. I am a true meat lover so for the most part I don't miss bread, pasta, potatoes... I DO miss chips, Fritos, pizza, and some sweets etc! I frequent Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low Carb message board. They have a forum called Good Calories, Bad Calories. It's like a study group for Gary Taubes book of the same name. Excellent book! Have you read it? Changed my way of thinking, especially about saturated fat... Now I can have my meat and eat it too. :lol: I am trying to cut my protein portions down a bit and add more fat, but I have trouble figuring how to do that without the meat... I guess add more butter, oil, etc.?

Well, I need to get ready for work. TGIF!!!

[eddiemcm]

LC:
Cheese,meat,eggs...Not exactly low cal.
Replacing carbs with fat-not exactly low cal.
It seems to work fine for weight loss and BG control.
Atkins said to not sweat the calories-I was always unsure
about that one.
Eddie

[MizKitty]

I don't miss bread, pasta, potatoes... I DO miss chips, Fritos, pizza, and some sweets etc!

Marcia, I'm exactly the same way! I've found fine replacements though.

Do you have a Trader Joe's near you?

They sell a bagged chip made from flaxseed, called
Spicey Soy & Flaxseed Tortilla chips - they are similar to Doritos and absolutely delicious. 7 large chips are 11 net carbs. I will count 7 chips out on a plate, to make sure I don't overdo it with mindless eating from the bag.

2 nights ago I tried the famousDeep Dish Pizza Quiche (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost.php?p=7365381&postcount=1423) from the recipe Main Meals recipe folder, and it was heavenly! It was really pizza, nothing about it said "faux".

For my chocolate fix, I order Russell Stover Net Carb chocolate candies (in the red packaging, not the sugar-free green packaging marketed to diabetics - they're still high carb.)
Some folks have issues with the sugar alcohols in these, but they don't bother me. I order from http://www.lowcarbchocolates.com/rs.html , and sometimes I get myself that box of assorted chocolates you see there.... that's so good, you'd never know it wasn't regular chocolates.

If sugar alcohols bother you, try Chocoperfection Bars - the ones Jimmy Moore endorses (and has his own flavor). They use erythritol as the sweetener, and are very good, but very expensive.

[eddiemcm]

Couple of slices of thin crust pizza doesn't spike my
glucose badly.Everyone is different.What works well for me
may not work well for thee.What works well for thee may not
work well for me.Damned shame.
And so it goes...
Eddie

[triplemom]

Triplemom and Muffles, sounds like you need to have a printout of Lottadata's excellent article "You Did NOT Eat Your Way to Diabetes" handy when you tell your mothers.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php

Thanks, Kitty, what a great web site!

[CarolynC]

I DO miss chips, Fritos, pizza, and some sweets etc!
That's me, too! Green beans sprinkled with olive oil and salt and roasted in the oven are a very good replacement for French fries. Turnip fries are good, too. I've tried making chips with vegetables other than potatoes, but they've never crunched up well.

I use the oopsie revolution roll recipe as a pizza crust. One whole recipe (that would make 6 rolls) is the right amount for a round pizza pan. Once you add low carb toppings, it tastes and looks just like a regular pizza, although the oopsie crust is less firm than most flour crusts.

Like MizKitty, I like the Russell Stovers low carb chocolates. The coconut oil bark candy recipe is also very flexible. I especially like adding some peanut butter. Yesterday, I made chocolate covered strawberries by dipping fresh strawberries in melted coconut oil bark recipe. I made 6 chocolate covered strawberries for about 5 g net carbs total. They were excellent and seemed very decadent.

[MizKitty]

Carolyn, those are great ideas....I've been making my own Pecan delights (turtles) with the CO! I put a little pile of chopped pecans in the bottom of a mini muffin pan, add a small dollop of walden Farms caramel sauce, then fill the cup with the melted CO chocolate. Then freeze till they pop right out. Very yummy.

[Lottadata]

Marcia,

Technically you have "impaired glucose tolerance."

Recently while working on my new book, I spent a lot of time reviewing the research on my web site, and what I come up with is that research shows that many people remain in that impaired state all their lives and do NOT progress to full-fledged diabetes.

This is particularly true of people who have high blood sugars due to insulin resistance but who have the ability to grow new beta cells.

However, we also know that blood sugars in the "impaired" range are high enough to cause some complications, the most worrisome of which is heart disease.

So whatever the technical diagnosis, you do want to bring those blood sugars down after meals and avoid exposing your body to high blood sugars.

Since this is a low carb discussion board, I suspect you already know HOW to do that. <G>

[Korban]

...Green beans sprinkled with olive oil and salt and roasted in the oven are a very good replacement for French fries. Turnip fries are good, too.

That sounds like fun or something like "neccesity is the mother of invention".

I read in some lo-carb forum that fried pork skins were good 0 carb substitutes for chips... Well, I never imagined ever trying them but they are pretty good once I got over the psychological game. Everytime I mention to my wife that she should try them (she isn't diabetic) she gives me a look of disgust... Oh well.

/smile

[Rose1942]

Jenny, you said: "Technically you have "impaired glucose tolerance."

Recently while working on my new book, I spent a lot of time reviewing the research on my web site, and what I come up with is that research shows that many people remain in that impaired state all their lives and do NOT progress to full-fledged diabetes. "

Can you explain that a little bit? Like, how is that determined? What criteria is used to decide whether a person will progress to full fledged diabetes? TIA:)

(edited to add: Reason I ask is because Marcia's average BG's look a lot like mine but I was told I was 'officially' diabetic.)

[RobLL]

res coffee

coffee and caffein have some affect on some people, but for most of us it has far less affect than the other components of our diet and medications

cut to the chase (for me, ymmv) I enjoy my 1 1/2 pots of coffee a day along with my red wine (about a glass more than recommended maximum healthy amount). And in exchange I am very observant of my diet and exercise otherwise.

ps: my big 'slop' in my carb control is that I use a lot of tomatoe and onions in my cooking. Almost all of us who successfully very low carb figure out where the 'slack' in our diet gives of the most bang for the bucks.

[muffles]

Triplemom and Muffles, sounds like you need to have a printout of Lottadata's excellent article "You Did NOT Eat Your Way to Diabetes" handy when you tell your mothers.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php

Thank you for that. It is an excellent article. I think I'll print it out for my family to read.

[Sunflwr1]

:wave: Thanks all for for the wonderful replies!

Karen, ahhh, so you're a salty person too!:lol: Thanks for all the great ideas. I think there's a Trader Joe's about an hour and a half away, but I better stay away from those chip. Might be a major trigger food for me. We have a local brand of potato chip... Mrs. Fisher's that are to die for... literally, greasy, salty, fabulous! No more for me! I may have to give that pizza a try. Sounds fabulous!!! My kind of food! :lol: I always liked mine, thin crust with sausage, green olives and red onions. I might have to give that a try! Sugar alcohols and all that stuff do a number on me. Last month I was sick and I tried to just sugar-free cold/cough stuff. Made me so sick... can't even stand the thought of it. *sigh* I think I'm still at a point that if I start to indulge in yummy substitutes it might just put me over the edge. I do fine when I abstain, but when I start doing little cheats I have problems. Not that I ever won't indulge, because I probably will at some time.

Carolyn You have some great ideas too! Thanks! I've heard of those Oopsie Rolls... I will have to give them a try sometime. Those strawberries sound divine. Do they raise you BG very much? I'm still experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. I gave my remaining grapefruits to a friend of mine. sniff, sniff

Marcia,

Technically you have "impaired glucose tolerance."

Recently while working on my new book, I spent a lot of time reviewing the research on my web site, and what I come up with is that research shows that many people remain in that impaired state all their lives and do NOT progress to full-fledged diabetes.

This is particularly true of people who have high blood sugars due to insulin resistance but who have the ability to grow new beta cells.

However, we also know that blood sugars in the "impaired" range are high enough to cause some complications, the most worrisome of which is heart disease.

So whatever the technical diagnosis, you do want to bring those blood sugars down after meals and avoid exposing your body to high blood sugars. That is very interesting, Jenny. Can you tell me why you feel that way? Jenny, I'd like to thank you so much for your site, if it wasn't for that I'd still be clueless!

[CarolynC]

Carolyn, those are great ideas....I've been making my own Pecan delights (turtles) with the CO! I put a little pile of chopped pecans in the bottom of a mini muffin pan, add a small dollop of walden Farms caramel sauce, then fill the cup with the melted CO chocolate. Then freeze till they pop right out. Very yummy.
Thanks for the idea, Karen. That does sound yummy. I've added pecans to my coconut oil candies, but I've never included caramel. I'll give it a try. My parents' backyard has many pecan trees and I grew up loving pecans.

[CarolynC]

Carolyn You have some great ideas too! Thanks! I've heard of those Oopsie Rolls... I will have to give them a try sometime. Those strawberries sound divine. Do they raise you BG very much?
I didn't notice any unexpected rise in bg from the chocolate covered strawberries. I eat about 12 g carbs for lunch (as Dr. Bernstein recommends) and the strawberries were included in the 12 g. Strawberries are a low carb fruit (and practically the only fruit that I eat except for cantaloupe, which I love). 6 medium strawberries plus one entire recipe of the coconut oil bark (with 2 T of the oil) has about 5 g carbs and 265 calories. But, I make the bark with sweetzfree, which is liquid splenda and has 0 g carbs.

[Lottadata]

Jenny, you said: "Technically you have "impaired glucose tolerance."

Recently while working on my new book, I spent a lot of time reviewing the research on my web site, and what I come up with is that research shows that many people remain in that impaired state all their lives and do NOT progress to full-fledged diabetes. "

Can you explain that a little bit? Like, how is that determined? What criteria is used to decide whether a person will progress to full fledged diabetes? TIA:)

(edited to add: Reason I ask is because Marcia's average BG's look a lot like mine but I was told I was 'officially' diabetic.)

Rose,

This conclusion was drawn mostly from a research paper by John Meigs based on data from the Baltimore Latitudinal Study of Aging, which is a huge ongoing study where they examined a large population, gave them tests periodically, and continued to add new people as time went on.

They tracked how many people had abnormal glucose tolerance tests and how many of those went on to become diabetic. I have this data online at

The Patterns in Which Diabetes Develops (http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046669.php).

Other data I drew on includes the statistics on the number of people in the population who have metabolic syndrome (including IR) and those who are diabetic.

Finally I also draw on the pancreas autopsy study done with Mayo Clinic patients that found that many obese people with mildly impaired blood sugar control had been able to grow new beta cells while those who were diabetic apparently could not, and there was some evidence their beta cells after reproducing, died.

[Rose1942]

Jenny - thank you so much. That is a fabulous article, probably the most comprehensive explanation of early indications of diabetes that I have ever read. This should be required reading for every family practice doctor and dietician because from my own experience and the experiences of others here, they just don't get it. The evidence is compelling that older people in particular should be carefully screened, using the criteria from this study, to perhaps start treating their condition well before it has escalated to diabetic range.

[MamaMarie]

Hi Sunflr! Actually, I'm in your boat right now.

For the last couple of months I've been noticing signs of PCOS (a pre-diabetic state) returning. About a week or so ago I decided to stop fooling around and to go back to low carb. (It worked years ago.)

My son is a type 1 diabetic. Today I borrowed his monitor to see how far I'd pushed it. 219. I guess I pushed it too far.

And I'm very MAD at myself at the moment! :mad: I KNEW I had the genetic makeup for diabetes. I KNEW I'd already dodged the bullet with PCOS 8 years ago. And what did I continue to do? Eat the healthy version of the SAD. Crap, crap, crap. (No. The stupid rice wasn't worth it.)

But the important thing for us to do is to STOP, accept that there is a problem and take control over our lives from this moment forward. There is not one darn thing we can do with the past... accept LEARN from it! Spanking ourselves will do very little to fix the friggin problem.

[Sunflwr1]

But the important thing for us to do is to STOP, accept that there is a problem and take control over our lives from this moment forward. There is not one darn thing we can do with the past... accept LEARN from it! Spanking ourselves will do very little to fix the friggin problem.

You're exactly right... and that's what I'm doing. Taking charge of my blood sugar with a low carb WOL! We must persevere!!! :)

[Lottadata]

Marcia,

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you ask, "Why you feel that way?"

The reason that I believe that many people stay at pre-diabetic levels for life is the epidemiological large population studies that look at who progresses from impaired to diabetic over long periods of time.

The reason I think that pre-diabetes is still a problem is the many studies linking heart disease to mildly elevated A1cs and post-prandial blood sugar excursions.

Though doctors obsess about cholesterol, it turns out that A1c is a much better predictor of heart attack risk. And at lower blood sugars the post-meal rise in blood sugar is what raises A1c. This is well known.

[Sunflwr1]

Marcia,

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you ask, "Why you feel that way?"

The reason that I believe that many people stay at pre-diabetic levels for life is the epidemiological large population studies that look at who progresses from impaired to diabetic over long periods of time.

The reason I think that pre-diabetes is still a problem is the many studies linking heart disease to mildly elevated A1cs and post-prandial blood sugar excursions.

Though doctors obsess about cholesterol, it turns out that A1c is a much better predictor of heart attack risk. And at lower blood sugars the post-meal rise in blood sugar is what raises A1c. This is well known.Hi Jenny, I asked that before you posted the link to the study, before that I thought perhaps you saw something in my numbers to make you think that. Recently I requested my lab results from the last 8 years... I was curious if they had done a FGT before. I knew they had in '06, but I didn't remember any others. I received the info today... here's how they read:

'00 - 95
'02 - 102
'04 - 97
'06 - 99
'08 - 105

I guess what scares me is that I've been LCing for the past 3 months and I can't seem to get my numbers below 90. For those with IR, IGT is there still hope of getting those BG numbers down? Perhaps it takes longer? I still need to lose about 25 lb. so I'm hoping that will help. I wonder what they were before LCing... when I would have a Reuben for lunch with fries??? I was thinking of one day eating like I used to, just to see where my BG would go. Is that a dumb idea? I guess when it went up to 193 with 2 C of white rice that should give me a pretty good idea...

[glennette]

Hi Sunflwer1, From reading this tread it's plain to see you'll do great!

Just want to mention that it may not be the coffee that is raising your before breakfast readings. Are you taking your thyroid after you take your fasting reading? Some drugs can raise your bg for a while and thyroid is one of them. I don't do a before breakfast check for that reason. Breakfast always seems to bring my levels back in line and since I can never stop taking my thryoid or the diuretic that I take at the same time and has the same effect. I try not to worry about it. I just wait my hour, eat and do a 2 hr.pp

There are other drugs with the same effect, so it you're taking any other meds check them out. Dr. Bernstein has a list of them in his book (I've loaned my copy out) but I'm sure someone else here could help you if you want to check up on any other meds. you might be taking.

Welcome aboard!
Glennette

[Sunflwr1]

Hi Glennette! Thanks for the welcome and the heads up... I really appreciate the info. That's an excellent idea to just wait for 2 hr.pp. I have Dr. Bernstein's book... I'm going to check it out. I just don't remember that part. Thanks again!

I just checked the book and all mine has are drugs that affect diabetes medications, but I see thyroid products mentioned often. Think I will ask my pharmacist, but you're right about taking the meds.. we don't have a choice!

Now... I've gone a week without coffee! Do I start again??? :yum:

[glennette]

Hi Glennette! Thanks for the welcome and the heads up... I really appreciate the info. That's an excellent idea to just wait for 2 hr.pp. I have Dr. Bernstein's book... I'm going to check it out. I just don't remember that part. Thanks again!

I just checked the book and all mine has are drugs that affect diabetes medications, but I see thyroid products mentioned often. Think I will ask my pharmacist, but you're right about taking the meds.. we don't have a choice!

Now... I've gone a week without coffee! Do I start again??? :yum:

I actually found out by taking them before my fbg one day and getting upset b/c of the rise. I fooled around with the testing to see if it was something else and it found it was the thyroid & diuretic meds. Then I found them listed in the back of Bernstein's book. I've often thought that may be why so many people with thyroid disorders/diseases end up with t2 diabeties. Can't help but wonder. I don't/can't take diabetic meds so it's not b/c it's interferring with that.

Did your before bb readings get better after eliminating the coffee?

We have the Keurig coffee system which has the little cups of different types/brands of coffee that you put in the machine and it runs the hot water through the little cup to so that you can have a different kind of coffee with every cup. Well I use the same one that my DH has had in the morning so I get a weak version this has never interferred with my readings. I know some people would just not concider that coffee(DH included)..but it keeps my Doc from reading me the riot act about having coffee at all. ;)

You've already got Bernstein's book too??? Wow, that's great! You're definetly going to get this bull down by the horns in no time! :yay:

[Sunflwr1]

Glennette... sorry I missed this.

Did your before bb readings get better after eliminating the coffee?Yes, unfortunately for me I do believe it does raise my BS. I've gone nearly 2 weeks without and it hasn't really bothered me. Not even a headache and I would have several cups a day.

You've already got Bernstein's book too??? Wow, that's great!Yes, and I have the 2 books by Gretchen Becker too. I really like those as well.

Jenny... or anyone else, What do you think about my FGT history? I'm curious what your opinion is.

[MamaMarie]

I guess what scares me is that I've been LCing for the past 3 months and I can't seem to get my numbers below 90. For those with IR, IGT is there still hope of getting those BG numbers down? Perhaps it takes longer?

I may be mistaken, but I don't think 90 for a fasting is bad at all. IMHO, below 80 and most people start to feel quite crappy. (Some feel hypoglycemic below 85.) Here's the Mayo Clinic's opinion:

"What's normal?
A normal fasting blood sugar result is lower than 100 milligrams of glucose per deciliter of blood (mg/dL)."

And, yeah. The two cups of rice *was* your test! lol!

[Rose1942]

Marcia, I have to agree with MamaMarie that your fasting numbers look very good. I am in the same ballpark as you, sometimes my FBG is a little under 100 and sometimes a little over. But we have to remember that we have only been LC'ing for a few months (almost 4 for me, so pretty much the same as you) and I am seeing in various threads and articles that it can take some time for the numbers to come down to the level where they STAY there all the time. Readings that fluctuate, I think, are normal at this stage - we should be proud that we can get them down this far at this point, in my opinion! We know that something is working.

Your 2 cups of white rice was your test, mine was the glucose tolerance test - I hit 300 in one hour on that baby.

The folks that have been able to get into near reversal (or, as I like to think of it - remission) have been low carbing for a much longer time, I don't think it can happen overnight, even though we have encouraging results. You are doing well, keep up the good work, we'll beat this together :wave:

[Nancy LC]

What is optimal is a different answer from what is acceptable.
I like referencing this study Dr. Eades commented on. Your longevity appears to be tied to your FBG.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/2006/01/05/the-sugar-hypothesis/

As might be expected, after 33 years the diabetic group fared poorly compared to the normal and even the glucose intolerant group. Having a diabetic 2-hr post load glucose profile increased the odds off all-cause mortality by 2.37 and of death from coronary heart disease by 3.70. Clearly having an abnormal glucose tolerance test is bad news for prospects of a long life, more so, in fact, than a “bad” cholesterol test.

But, the most interesting aspect of this study is what the researchers found in the normal group first at 10 years then at 33 years down the road. Everyone knows that a markedly elevated blood sugar level or a diabetic glucose tolerance test bodes poorly for long term mortality, but what about the lower end of the curve? Is there a difference there? Is there a difference in long term mortality between a blood glucose level of, say, 95 mg/dl and one of 85 mg/dl, both of which are considered normal.

At the 10 year followup of the 18, 403 men the researchers found that heart disease mortality started to increase at blood sugar levels above 95 mg/dl, but that those subjects with blood sugar levels below 95 mg/dl showed no increased risk for death from heart disease.

After 33 years, however, the picture changes. The cutoff level drops to 83 mg/dl. In other words, in terms of cardiovascular mortality, the risk starts to rise as 2-hr post load blood sugars reach 83 mg/dl and that there is a linear increase in risk between 83 mg/dl and 95 mg/dl. I’m sure that after 40 years, the minimum level will drop a few points further.

I wonder if perhaps BG averages (during fasting and non-fasting) might be found to be important someday.

[Lottadata]

Nancy,

There is already plenty of evidence that people with blood sugars naturally near 83 are unlikely to develop diabetes over time.

However, I can find no evidence that fasting blood sugars higher than that cause damage. Everything points to high post-meal blood sugars as being what causes damage, and it is also very clear that fasting blood sugars rise for all but a small subset of people after post-meal control is shot.

So I think that taking care of high post-meal blood sugars is probably the way to go. For people whose main diabetic problem is insulin resistance, normalizing post-meal numbers will normalize fasting blood sugar.

For many others of us, self included, by the time we get a diagnosis, we have lost some critical amount of beta cells or we have some disruption in the complex hormonal system that seves as the glucose thermostat for fasting blood sugars, so it isn't possible to normalize that fasting blood sugar. I can't, not even with basal/bolus insulin.

So pretty much I think we have do do what we can and not make ourselves crazy about what we can't.

My mom at age 92 still has a fasting bg of 83. But she also has had cancer and dementia. My dad, whose blood sugar was not normal--I think I got my diabetes gene from him--was still sharp enough to be practicing his profession at age 92, thanks to eating a very strict diet.

So that tells me that fasting bg isn't the Holy Grail.

[Nancy LC]

Sorry to hear about your Mom. :( Your Dad sounds like he's doing well, that's great! In my family it was the other way, Dad had the dementia issues, Mom had other things happening. Dad was obviously Syndrome X, he had every single symptom, including eventually the Alzheimer's. My Mom ended up with memory issues too especially during the last couple years of her life, but in her case it might have been lack of oxygen from COPD and heart issues probably coupled with other things going on. But she was more like severe short-term memory loss versus the way Alz works.

It's hard to compare a study like the ones in the Eades posting with individual cases since there could be a lot more at work in an individual versus watching a trend. Perhaps it *is* precisely because of his strict dietary practices that he is doing so well despite his BG issues which should lend heart to those of us being strict with our diets.

[Sunflwr1]

Thanks Ladies! Appreciate the input.

I think MamaMarie puts it in the right prospective, at least for me.

But the important thing for us to do is to STOP, accept that there is a problem and take control over our lives from this moment forward. There is not one darn thing we can do with the past... accept LEARN from it! Spanking ourselves will do very little to fix the friggin problem.This is what I must keep telling myself... stop obsessing about it and just do the best I can. Restrict carbs, exercise, test and enjoy my life!

[MamaMarie]

The folks that have been able to get into near reversal (or, as I like to think of it - remission) have been low carbing for a much longer time, I don't think it can happen overnight, even though we have encouraging results. :wave:

Just to back this up: The dr who diagnosed me with PCOS 8 years ago told me to go on a NO carb diet for 6 straight months before I even thought about having a treat then to stay under 40g for the rest of my life. (Did I listen? :lol:)

[MamaMarie]

This is what I must keep telling myself... stop obsessing about it and just do the best I can. Restrict carbs, exercise, test and enjoy my life!

And may I add... Try to be happy with your yummy low-carb meals and don't see this WOE as punishment.

When you screw up, forgive yourself and start again fresh.

Don't let your sense of wroth be dictated by how low your kept the carb count for the day or by the fact that you broke down and treated yourself to a candy bar whilst PMSing.

Treat yourself the way you'd treat your own daughter if she were in your shoes.

There. Done nagging for the night! ;)

[Cajunboy47]

This is what I must keep telling myself... stop obsessing about it and just do the best I can. Restrict carbs, exercise, test and enjoy my life!

If you must keep telling yourself, isn't that obsessing also? :)

I wouldn't use the word "restrict" to describe a low carb way of eating. That makes it sound like deprivation and can lead to anxiety feelings..... Eating an appropriate amount of carbs, or being sensible about the amount of carbs in my diet feels a bit better and accepting this way of eating as normal helps reduce temptations as well as decreasing anxiety.

[Rose1942]

This is what Cajunboy says: 'Eating an appropriate amount of carbs, or being sensible about the amount of carbs in my diet feels a bit better and accepting this way of eating as normal helps reduce temptations as well as decreasing anxiety.'

And I tend to agree.

When I first started doing this, I was militant about carbs. It wasn't that bad but it soon got difficult and I found that even though I am sensitive to carbs, which do raise my sugar in inappropriate amounts, there are ways to go 'off plan' that don't do much damage and make life easier all around.

For instance, I make chicken cordon bleu - we love it and it just isn't as good if I don't use some fresh bread crumbs as part of the coating. I decided that it wasn't worth it to count the carbs in the small amount of bread crumbs that cover a single portion and I was right. It probably amounts to 1/4 of a slice of bread - no big deal. The rest of the dish is really very low carb, if carby at all. (Chicken, ham, swiss, egg for coating, parm cheese, melted butter).

Since I have been thinking this way it has made my cooking and eating more enjoyable, and frankly, my sugar is still within a good range for me, averaging 100 to 120 PP and in the 90's before meals. Sometimes it's even better, 80's before meals, under 110 PP but I'm not there yet every day. I am happy with that because I have not only lost weight, but have improved some other things including numbness in my toes (all gone now). Four months into low carb, and still improving - I look for more improvement gradually. I think that's the best I can do and still maintain my 'mental' health as well!

[Sunflwr1]

Just to back this up: The dr who diagnosed me with PCOS 8 years ago told me to go on a NO carb diet for 6 straight months before I even thought about having a treat then to stay under 40g for the rest of my life. (Did I listen? :lolWow! That is wonderful to find a Dr. like that. Is he/she still your Dr.?

I thank all of you for your input and ideas, but I must have given the wrong impression of myself... I'm not really a hand wringing, obsessive, fretting, individual. I'm just trying to find out what works for me and what doesn't in this new WOL. Actually I do like LCing. I have always loved meat and it's fat... now I don't have to feel guilty anymore! :) Not that there aren't some things that I don't miss, but I think that makes me human. I do find it a bit frustrating and confusing when I try to do what I think it right and good for me and find my BS goes up! What the... ??? Now I know that I shouldn't exercise in the AM (don't know what I'll do in the summer because later in the day it will be too damn HOT). But, I'm feeling my way and I certainly do appreciate all of the wonderful information and support!

Since I have been thinking this way it has made my cooking and eating more enjoyable, and frankly, my sugar is still within a good range for me, averaging 100 to 120 PP and in the 90's before meals. Sometimes it's even better, 80's before meals, under 110 PP but I'm not there yet every day. I am happy with that because I have not only lost weight, but have improved some other things including numbness in my toes (all gone now). Four months into low carb, and still improving - I look for more improvement gradually. I think that's the best I can do and still maintain my 'mental' health as well!Rose, that is absolutely wonderful! You go girl! I can't seem to bring mine down that low, not yet anyway. Sometimes I get into the 90's. but I'm usually over 100. In time perhaps... I may just eliminate carbs altogether for a while like MamaMarie's Dr. suggested and see what happens. After reading Gary Taubes' book and following along on a different forum I don't think that to be harmful. Rut Roh! Am I obsessing again? :help:

Thanks again everybody!

[Rose1942]

Marcia, 'over 100' isn't bad at all. You only just started. As we have discussed before around here, it seems to take a little while to get down to lower numbers, even Dr. Bernstein says so. Mine aren't that low (80's) all the time, but even if I see it sometimes, I am okay with that. Furthermore, having discussed meters at great length around here as well - we know that they are not perfectly accurate sometimes.
And I don't think anyone thinks of you as a hand wringing type of person, just someone who is trying to start off right - like everyone! You have a great attitude, chill, baby :cool:

[MamaMarie]

Wow! That is wonderful to find a Dr. like that. Is he/she still your Dr.?

I thank all of you for your input and ideas, but I must have given the wrong impression of myself... I'm not really a hand wringing, obsessive, fretting, individual. I'm just trying to find out what works for me and what doesn't in this new WOL.

No, he's not my doc. (I moved.)

And no, sweetie. I didn't get that impression of you AT ALL. I saw a woman who is just like me. Someone's whose trying to do the right thing and needing validation that I'm on the right track! :)

You're NORMAL. :D

[Sunflwr1]

:) Thanks Rose and MamaMarie!

[cappie]

Hi Marcia: Your high morning numbers sound like the Dawn Effect to me--hormones your body releases to help you wake up & get going. Only eating will control those as the food tells your body that you are functioning now.

You do realize that diabetes is NOT an either/or disease? It is a continuum of tolerance to glucose & with rising intolerance your blood sugar levels will contiue to go up higher & higher. The best thing is to get control now of that progression & you may be able to stop it in its tracks. Dr. Bernstein's book "The Diabetes Solution" is the best way to do this. The majority of the medical profession unfortunately are too indoctrinated with the truly harmful & dangerous ideas of the ADA to be helpful at all.

Good luck on your journey to better health--being diagnosed was the best thing that happened to mine as it forced me to start living a healthier way.

cappie

[MamaMarie]

Just an update on week three of low-carbing it.

I've gained 5 pounds, but my blood sugar is *perfect*. It took weeks of eating strict low-carb, but I've got it below 100 in the AM. I "cheated" and had some tater tots and it didn't go above 140.

This does NOT mean that I'm in the clear and can go back to what I was doing before. It means that I've caught it early enough (again) to turn the beast around.

Now the *really* good news: My "cycle" is normal again for the first time in *months*! NO MORE ACNE!! My skin is beautiful!

As for the weight gain: Well, I'm going to play with that a bit more. Once I eat that first meal of the day, it's like a switch is flipped and I can't stop eating. All my life I've dealt with this by not eating until after 2 or 3 PM. This time I tried (again) to eat a healthy breakfast and (again) it backfired on me.

I'm not saying that everyone has this problem, but *I* sure do! Time to try dealing with it again.

[awriter]

Just an update on week three of low-carbing it.
I've gained 5 pounds, but my blood sugar is *perfect*. Once I eat that first meal of the day, it's like a switch is flipped and I can't stop eating.

MamaMarie - first, congratulations on getting your blood sugar under control! That's a major victory. :D

The breakfast/can't stop eating is a mystery though. What are a few of your typical "healthy breakfasts?" I ask because I suspect that you may not be getting enough fat/protein or calories for that meal. And what does "can't stop eating" mean for you?

How many calories do you typically eat on a day when you do eat breakfast and 'eat all day'? How many on a day when your first meal is after 2 or 3 in the afternoon?

Again, congrats on the blood sugar!

Lisa

[MamaMarie]

MamaMarie - first, congratulations on getting your blood sugar under control! That's a major victory. :D

The breakfast/can't stop eating is a mystery though. What are a few of your typical "healthy breakfasts?" I ask because I suspect that you may not be getting enough fat/protein or calories for that meal. And what does "can't stop eating" mean for you?

How many calories do you typically eat on a day when you do eat breakfast and 'eat all day'? How many on a day when your first meal is after 2 or 3 in the afternoon?

Again, congrats on the blood sugar!

Lisa

Honey, there's no rhyme or reason to it. For years I've tried every combination to make the problem go away, but it just is.

I have a tall, thin friend. (I'm 5'3, she's 5'8. I'm 180.6, she's 150... we're Mutt and Jeff.) We do enjoy comparing our differences. For instance, she cannot identify with the feeling I call "hunger". She feels "sick" if she doesn't eat. She's figured out that eating makes her feel better, so she eats until she's no longer "sick". She does not enjoy food. She finds 1oz of cheese completely filling and I wouldn't even notice that.

But we both have the "breakfast thing". If we put off eating for as long as possible, we're fine. Once we open that can of worms, we're done for the day. I get hungry every hour or two and she feels sick every hour or two until she eats. She's played with the phenom. herself and can't find a way around it. We've both done LC, LF, LC/LF/high protein, high fat, etc... nothing works.

On the LC diet, I'm now gaining. I know it's because I'm eating and eating and eating. I never eat this much! I know it's because I'm "flipping the switch" too early in the day. Now that things have settled down this week, I'm about to change that.

There may be someone out there who's had the same problem and who has a solution. There may be someone out there who needs to hear that they're not "weird". ;) Either way, there it is, and I know the two of us can't be the only ones! :wave:

[Lottadata]

Marie,

I have had a LOT of problems with hunger, even when eating very low carb. So I know what you are talking about. My guess is that it is caused by blood sugar fluctuations. Even a "mild" fluctuation up to 140 and back down to 100 can cause hunger.

The only thing that reliably turns it off, for me, is Metformin, which unfortunately I can't take any more because my stomach lining won't tolerate it anymore. For the 4 years I took it, it was a godsend.

Beyond that, I find if I use very small doses of insulin to keep from having even mild blood sugar fluctuations, that helps a lot too. I can eat a lot more carbs and not experience hunger with properly dosed insulin.

But with PCOS, you have so much insulin in you already that probably doesn't help.

Have you tried Byetta? It does wonderful things for physiological hunger for some people. I have heard people say that for the first time in their lives they had normal hunger patterns. It isn't all that effective for blood sugar control, but it is very helpful for weight loss in people with mild blood sugar problems.

If you continue to have hunger problems after a few months of eating low carb, you should bring up the medication issue with your doctor.

[eddiemcm]

about byetta:
derived from gila monster saliva-yuk!!
Known to cause pancreaitis.
Many lawsuits going on about that.
Causes nausea and vomiting in some people.
You do indeed lose weight when you throw up your food.
To be fair,let's mention that it works fine for most people.
Eddie

[awriter]

I get hungry every hour or two. On the LC diet, I'm now gaining. I know it's because I'm eating and eating and eating.

MamaMarie,

Ever hear the expression "the devil is in the details?" :p

Okay, so you eat and eat and eat. Question is: what? Can you give us a sense of what you eat when you have a day like that? What, and how much? I'm going to bet that some of the seniors here will have a suggestion or two that will really help. I've seen that happen in thread after thread.

Post the what/how much - and let us try and help you figure out what's going on. When it comes to the body, although every one is individual, basic biology still works and there IS a 'rhyme and reason' though it's often hidden well and difficult to discover. Sometimes many heads ARE better than one. :)

So ... typical 'eating the house' day: what do you eat, and how much of it?

Lisa

[Lottadata]

about byetta:
derived from gila monster saliva-yuk!!
Known to cause pancreaitis.
Many lawsuits going on about that.
Causes nausea and vomiting in some people.
You do indeed lose weight when you throw up your food.
To be fair,let's mention that it works fine for most people.
Eddie

Eddie,

It is not "derived" from gila monster saliva. It is a lab synthesized molecule modeled on the saliva. But it is also an analog of the same GLP-1 you have in your gut, with a few molecular changes that cause it to not be destroyed as quickly as your own is.

And the pancreatitis incidence is extremely low. There is some question whether it is caused by the byetta or whether it is because the population taking byetta is obese and pancreatitis is more common in obesity.

It causes nausea in some poeople. In others, it does not.

I started out thinking it was being very overhyped, but I have quite a few acquaintences who have had wonderful success with it--some of who had been low carbing but not losing weight. So I think it is worth a try.

It doesn't work for everyone, and it is midprescribed for people for whom it does not do much. But for those for whom it works, it works dramatically.

And the safety profile actually looks pretty good. The incidence of pancreatitis, from what I saw is no worse than the incidence of electrolyte imbalances with very low carb diets.

[CarolynC]

Byetta works very well for my father, better than any other medication that he has tried. I wish he would lower his dietary carbs, but convincing him of that is a lost cause.

[eddiemcm]

More about byetta:
"Derived from" doesn't mean "comes from"!
I just had a female cousin that dropped byetta because it
made her horribly sick on a daily basis.Her doctor warned her that it would do that for awhile but it was too tough for her to persevere so she is moving on to insulin.I know more people that have dropped byetta than continued.Of those who continued,it seems to work pretty well according to them.
Cheers
Eddie

[Cajunboy47]

Just a couple of thoughts on prior posts....

Saliva, which is DERIVED from Gila Monsters, COMES from scientific research, isn't that where the "YUK" comes/derives from???? :)

If I'm hungry, I don't take Byetta or any other supplement etc.... I EAT!!!! :yum:

[eddiemcm]

Cajun
Wasn't aware that "yuk" comes/derives from scientific research.
I mean "yuk" as an expression of disgust.
The weight loss that comes along with byetta is supposed to
be a secondary benefit-somewhat like metformin.Actually,
old studies show FBG and A1C results from byetta to be not much better than metformin.My byetta study results are
from www.rxlist.com.
Going to a cajunfest today with my feisty cajun wife
crawfish power!
Eddie

[Cajunboy47]

Eddie,

if I did scientific research on gila monster saliva, it would make me say "YUK!"... so, at that point, either comes from/derives from takes place, you choose