A little experiment - apple cider vinegar

[triplemom]

My mother swears by this stuff - she's been trying to get me to drink it for years. I pulled up some information yesterday that compared apple cider vinegar to metformin regarding blood sugar. So, yesterday I pulled out my bottle of Bragg's apple cider vinegar, which is organic and ulfiltered. It's supposed to be full of amino acids and good for all sorts of things. My mother said you just put it in shot glass and toss it back! I DON'T THINK SO - that sent me into a major coughing fit - man, that stuff is nasty. I tried mixing about a tablespoon with 8 ounces of water and drinking it - still bad enough to gag a maggot, but I got it down. I did this just before lunch yesterday and before breakfast this morning.

I ate my usual low-carb meal, usually less than 15 grams of carbs per meal. I try to stay under 50 grams of carbs per day, with the carbs spread out fairly evenly over each meal - my carbs are almost always non-starchy vegetables, and my blood sugars stay fairly consistent eating that way.

Interestingly, my 2-hour blood sugars without the vinegar over the last few days were 147, 129, 134, 132, 135, which are definitely down on their own by just reducing my carbs.

HOWEVER, the really interesting thing was my two blood sugars (2-hour after eating) after gagging down the vinegar - 110 and 117! I had vegetables with both of those meals, and I never get readings that low!

Anyway, I just had to toss this out for discussion/comments. I'm going to keep researching the subject and keep experimenting with it. Maybe my mother was right?!

[Rose1942]

There might be something to this. I experimented with apple cider vinegar myself a couple of weeks ago, but for another reason. I had a bit of gallbladder trouble going on, nothing severe, but enough so that it got my attention. (Apparently it is not unusual to experience gallbladder 'colic' after going on a diet of any kind, who knew?)

Anyway, while surfing around the net I came across an old post in this forum, wish I had saved it because I can't find it now. The discussion was about relieving gallbladder attack pain, and this person said that drinking 2 TBSP of apple cider vinegar in a glass of water really stopped the pain quickly. He said he used to use apple juice until he got diabetes, so now he used the vinegar as there is no sugar in it. Next time I felt some gallbladder trouble starting up, I tried it - and it worked! Of course I have no way of knowing positively that it did, but the pain lessened pretty fast and I did not progress into total misery.

I didn't think to check this against my blood sugar but now I am thinking that a glass of the lovely mixture might be beneficial to both my gallbladder (still a little pesky) and my BG. Thanks to your post, by the way! I will let you know if I see this connection. I believe it is the pectin in the apples that create the benefit, according to various gallbladder 'diets' that I have seen. But of course, we can't eat a bunch of apples either, diabetics are surely discriminated against by the fruit gods ..... ;)

I didn't find it particularly gross to drink, though. It was sort of pleasant to me, the same as drinking lemon water. Sure, acidic but not terrible. I didn't down it all at once though, I took about 10 minutes to drink it, maybe you should try that approach. And forget downing it in a shot glass undiluted - geez, that can make you choke to death!

[SSmith28]

I drank cider vinegar all the time for heart burn when I was pregnant. It's nasty at first-but you get used to it. I much prefer the "shot glass" method to sipping it.

***But please remember-Brush your teeth after drinking it. It is very bad for the enamel of your teeth.*** :)

[Korban]

Interesting!

I just found the writeup to the limited 2004 study in Diabetes Care of vinegar and its imact on insulin sensitivity. (see also cited references)

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/1/281#F1

A reference (by the same author) that cited the study is also given and shows a benefit from vinegar in terms of weight loss and glycemic response.

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/24/3/158

Both studies are from a real University... :)

Maybe this will allow me to drink a cup of cup of coffee in the morning without blowing my bg through the roof. Will try vinegar and the hard core un-refined apple cider vinegar (yuck and yuck). Not sure how I will keep them down yet... Will let you know in a week or two.

/smile

[triplemom]

Great info, Rose and Korban. This subject has really piqued my interest now. I also saw information (not sure if "real" studies were involved or not) where apple cider vinegar had beneficial effects on cholesterol.

Korban, in that first study you noted, the ACV was mixed with water and a little saccharine. I have some stevia drops and may trying "sweetening" it a bit. Maybe it will do down a little easier (and not come back up)....
Thanks for the tip, SSmith28.

[Rose1942]

(Triplemom says: I also saw information (not sure if "real" studies were involved or not) where apple cider vinegar had beneficial effects on cholesterol.)

LOL you have had a brainstorm! Hurry, sell that information to the statin makers! You could get rich!!! :D

[eddiemcm]

I personally prefer red wine vinegar.
For me,no type of vinegar seems to enhance BG control.
We are all different-maybe vinegar helps some people.
Eddie

[muffles]

Try adding an 1/8 th teaspoon of baking soda in the vinegar to neutralise the acid. I add hot water to my vinegar and it actually tastes nice to me now.
To the people brushing straight afterwards - don't. You need to swish with water for a minute or two afterwards, if you brush with acid still on your teeth, you can damage your teeth more. (Quote from my dentist).

[Lottadata]

Folks,

When you see a surprisingly low 1 or 2 hour reading, be sure to test at 3 or 4 hours to make sure you aren't just delaying the spike.

The Diabetes Care study involved a very small number of people and they only tested 30 minute and 60 minute blood sugars. That isn't all that conclusive.

So yes, it's possible there's something here, but my guess is it might be like the effect of wine with a meal which many of us have found to be effective for a few days and then fade out.

Bottom line: keep testing . . .

[Squid]

I have great luck with vinegar. In the past I used to have cheat meals a lot, and when I had the vinegar before the meal it really muted my blood glucose response. I like this mexican buffet near work (yeah, I know, bad idea), and when I ate there my BG would be close to 300. With the vinegar it would go up to about 150 and then drop back down to normal by two hours. But every now and then it wouldn't work for some reason.

I drank it by mixing a tablespoon or two into a large glass of water and sweetening it with stevia. If it's a hot summer day it tastes pretty good and is refreshing.

I don't have cheat meals any longer so I gave up the practice of drinking the apple cider vinegar.

[Korban]

Thanks for the comment, Jenny. I am sure I wouldn't have tested that far out.

Mexican food used to be my favorite, Squid... I wish they would go lo-carb with the beans, chips, and all...

/smile

[dancinbr]

Not ready to do vinegar.

But I will affirm the whole idea of doing some real good testing profiles after meals once in awhile.

Since I am learning how to use fast acting insulins and timing, etc., I have been testing in one hour increments all the way out to five hours. You get to see some interesting effects. Some food do linger and have delayed BG rises.

So, now sometimes I take a little fast acting insulin right before the meal and I also take a little more one hour later or so.

It helps to smooth out the curve.

When I really want to see a particular food and what it does I have done 1/2 incremental studies. I get some pretty good surprises on some foods, especially pasta, they start out with an increas hour one and increase more by hour two and stay up there by hour three and finally come down hour four and five.

I should document a bit better. I will.

But it is certainly true that the two hour test doesn't catch all adverse BG readings when having too many carbs.

The theory of small numbers prevails.

Ralph

[triplemom]

Mexican food used to be my favorite, Squid... I wish they would go lo-carb with the beans, chips, and all...

Ahhhh, Mexican....sigh. I tested a few times after dinner at my favorite Mexican restaurant - talk about being "scared straight" - Mexican food holds the record for my worst ever blood sugars! I absolutely can't make good choices there and I can't stay away from those darned chips!

[Lottadata]

Ralph,

I do the same thing as you do with a second smaller shot at 1 or 2 hours for foods like pizza which I know are slower. It works very well.

My rule of thumb is that I will not use more than 3 units at once before eating because of a fear that something might come up and I wouldn't eat the food. I've had this happen only a few times, but it is an issue.

Getting sick, for instance, or occasionally at a restaurant getting something so revolting I couldn't eat it.

With the 2 stage process the second dose goes in after the food so there's no fear.

But I also try to keep the insulin amount down as I find that the amount of insulin may be a good index to whether I'm going to put on weight, not necessarily because of the insulin but because it means I'm eating too much.

BTW, in his recent teleconference, Dr. Bernstein said it was okay to reuse pen needles, which is what I've been doing. Since I don't have to keep using new needles, I feel much freer to use a couple shots instead of one.

People with Type 1 who get CGMSes are getting so much better blood sugars, that I look forward to the day when everyone with diabetes can have access to one and see what their food really does to them.

BTW, if you test Dreamfields Pasta, you need to test even after that 5 hours when regular pasta hits.

[skeeweeaka]

Interesting experiment, my cousin says it cured his blood pressure, he lost weight, and erectile dysfunction reversed itself.

[triplemom]

I'm still using the ACV - I'm going to use it until my next dr. visit, when I get all my labs checked again. I did find that adding a few drops of stevia (I mix 1 TBSP of ACV with 1 cup of water) makes all the difference in the world in the taste. I do rinse with plain water afterwards. My searching on the internet has found ACV to be everything from a "miracle cure" to "hogwash" - my body, my science experiment! I haven't found anything to say that drinking vinegar a few times a day is going to hurt anything, so I'll keep on for now.

[Korban]

I bought the ACV but still haven't had the guts to take it... I will try soon...

It is similar to my grandmother's home remedy which I like better - vinegar mixed with honey...

I like that combo better... :)

[Sunflwr1]

Rhonda, What have your BG levels been lately? I assume the ACV is still helping? Are you on any meds? I just might give it a try too.

[triplemom]

Hey there, Marcia. I'm on no meds. I was on metformin, which made me incredibly sick to my stomach - we won't even mention the other "bowel" problems - it was awful. I stuck it out for a few weeks and said forget it. It was either take metformin and never leave the house again or....well, you get the picture!

I've had some interesting readings since starting the ACV. My sugars 2 hours after a meal had been running consistently in the 130's to 140's, which was on up to 10-15 grams of carbs in a meal at most - only nonstarchy vegetables. I've had a few isolated 180's-200's, but usually I know exactly what I did to get that (too many hidden carbs at a restaurant or making a bad choice). On the meals where I experimented with taking the ACV right before my meal, I've been getting readings in the 110's. In fact, I just stabbed myself in the finger with a random reading just for you and my sugar was 114. I haven't gotten readings like that since I was diagnosed! Anyway, to me it's worth continuing my little experiment for now.

Korban, you know what they say, grandma knows best (without the honey anyway)!

[sdmccourt]

I use ACV for heartburn, acid reflux, or when I can feel the foods in my stomach start using the walls of my stomach as a trampoline!! I love the taste of it but it's not handy to carry around and on the rare occasions I do get heartburn I'm normally not close to home. My health food co-op has liquid ACV in gel caps. Not sure if there's much of a difference in drinking it or using it in gel cap form but it works the same for me and heart burn.

[Sunflwr1]

In fact, I just stabbed myself in the finger with a random reading just for youAw c'mon... you really like it don't you??? :lol: :lol: :lol: Actually I DO, but then again I haven't been doing it that long. I always look forward to my next stick just to see how my efforts are paying off. Weird??? Nahhh. Obsessive/compulsive...uhhh, could be? :lol:

Thanks for the info and congrats on the experiment. Sure looks like it's having a positive effect! Keep us posted.

[Korban]

Korban, you know what they say, grandma knows best (without the honey anyway)!

Party Pooper.

/smile

[triplemom]

Aw c'mon... you really like it don't you??? :lol: :lol: :lol: Actually I DO, but then again I haven't been doing it that long. I always look forward to my next stick just to see how my efforts are paying off. Weird??? Nahhh. Obsessive/compulsive...uhhh, could be? :lol:

Not exactly! http://bestsmileys.com/violent/11.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/12.gif

[triplemom]

Party Pooper.

/smile

http://bestsmileys.com/signs8/23.gif http://bestsmileys.com/lol/10.gif

[Sunflwr1]

Not exactly! http://bestsmileys.com/violent/11.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/12.gifROFL!!! Maybe it is just me... I loved Sweeney Todd! :daze:

[glennette]

Good to see this brought up again, it made the itty bitty light bulb go off in my head. I've been trying to get my A1c's down below a 6 but even with constant weight loss and fairly strict diet & monitoring I wavered in the low 6's for nearly a year and a half. Well my last A1c was (at long last) down to 5.7 but I wasn't sure what to attribute it to. I did take some supplements so I thought that may be it , but I know I'm terrible when it comes to remembering to take them so I really don't think that was it.

What I have done consistantly is...drink my ACV cocktail every evening. Could this be it? I certainly hope so! Since I have it in the evening when DH get's home I don't do a BG check since I rarely eat after having it. DH rarly gets home before 7pm and I like to eat by 4 or 5pm.

BTW..my recipe is 2 tbls ACV, 1/2 tbls baking powder, 2 tbls DaVinci's "Buttered Rum" , and club soda. Tastes just like a cocktail without the alcohol.

[januaria]

I tried it, because I need to be on Metformin (extremely insulin resistant) but my doc will not give it to me for some reason. So I am on Levemir basal and no rapid as yet. All I had on hand was Heinz apple cider vinegar, but I took the two tablespoons in 6 oz water and it brought my BG to normal. From 10 to 6.5 - then it went to 5.5 - incredible - I had not seen that level for years.

I went and got the Braggs the next day; it tastes much better and is probably better all round. In about 8oz water, it almost tastes like wine. It seems to be more effective taken at once than sipped slowly, but maybe that's me.

I am going to do a better study this week and take measurements with my meter.

[Lottadata]

Hmmm. I tested the apple cider vinegar with the cloudy stuff from Trader Joes.

It did nothing for my blood sugar and it seemed to irritate my already irritated stomach lining.

Now I'm pretty insulin sensitive and my diabetes is caused by a failure to secrete insulin. So perhaps the ACV is most helpful perhaps for people who secrete insulin but aren't responding to it properly.

[triplemom]

BTW..my recipe is 2 tbls ACV, 1/2 tbls baking powder, 2 tbls DaVinci's "Buttered Rum" , and club soda. Tastes just like a cocktail without the alcohol.

Thank you for that idea! I'm going to dig out my bottle of DaVinci's buttered rum!

[glennette]

Thnks Rhonda, Hope you like it. :yum:

[Woodsy]

The last time I tried vinegar like this, I burned severely from my throat all the way down. I want to try it again but I don't want to cause another episode of problems caused by burning. What do you recommend?

[MizKitty]

One of the regular guys around here (Rob?? Darryl?? Mike?? has reported good results with ACV, and talked about it enough for me to work up my courage to try it ((shudder)) and I just couldn't take it, no matter how much I diluted or sweetened it.

But all I had was a very old bottle of Heinz.
Maybe I'll look for the Braggs or some good stuff from TJ's, and try glennette's recipe. Maybe.

Thanks for the report, triplemom.

[triplemom]

The last time I tried vinegar like this, I burned severely from my throat all the way down. I want to try it again but I don't want to cause another episode of problems caused by burning. What do you recommend?

I have to dilute the stuff big time - it's the only way I can tolerate it. I mix it with 8 to 10 ounces of water and a few drops of liquid stevia. The stevia takes some of the "bite" out of it. Some people actually drink it straight out of a shot glass - that would about kill mehttp://bestsmileys.com/drinking/4.gif and I can think of better uses for a shot glass!

[Woodsy]

I tried it this morning in a coffee cup of hot water and a squirt of honey. So far so good, just a little achey in the stomach. Probably need to dilute it more next time.

[Cajunboy47]

Drinking ACV? why not put it on a salad instead, or use in cooking vegetables or meats?