Dr Ron Rosedale

[OldMan 39]

Read this interview conducted at a seminar with Dr Ron Rosedale.
This guy knows what he is talking about!

http://www.dfhi.com/interviews/rosedale.html

Read this interview and let me know what you think!!!

:thup:

[OldMan 39]

The interview with Dr Ron Rosedale is 18 pages long. So you may want to print out then read.

Well worth the paper it's printed on and the time reading it.

I've been on this plan for only a week and have lost 10lbs, and I feel great!! Better than I ever felt on the Atkins diet. :thup:

:spin:

[doreen T]

hi Oldman39,

I've moved your posts to the Research/Media forum, where other folks interested in the metabolic effects of insulin can find it. :thup:

I located the same article posted at Mercola's website, it's a little easier to read ;) .. http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/14/insulin.htm

Congrats on the 10 lbs, keep us posted how you're doing.

Doreen

[debmeg]

I saw an article about a new diet called The Rosedale Diet; the book is on sale at amazon. I'm pretty sure it's the same Dr Rosedale. What I found interesting about it is that in the extract I read, and the description of it on amazon, all it talks about are leptin levels. Whereas in that article you've linked to, which I've just read, it talks about insulin levels, something we low carbers are all familiar with. I wonder if the good Dr, who certainly seems to know what he's talking about, is staying away from low-carb/insulin discussions with this new diet so that he can avoid the negative press generated by the anti-Atkins group? Because if you just take out the word leptin from the extract I read, and replace it with insulin, you basically get something we're all familiar with.

Has anyone else read the book, seen it? Can confirm that the Dr Ron Rosedale of this article is the same doctor of the new 'rosedale' diet?

here's the rosedale website: http://www.rosedalemetabolics.com/

[newdawn]

Dr. Ron Rosedale is mentioned in Protein Power Lifeplan (2000) as one of their partners. In the appendix it states he was writing a book at that time "detailing his own Purist version of nutrition, diabetes and health". Sounds as if he's struck out on his own. His two lectures on his website are very similar to Protein Power discussions. I guess he's changed some of the vocabulary a bit to make it seem like a new approach...don't know, since I haven't read his book yet.

[fatburner]

The interview with Dr Ron Rosedale is 18 pages long. So you may want to print out then read.

Well worth the paper it's printed on and the time reading it.

I've been on this plan for only a week and have lost 10lbs, and I feel great!! Better than I ever felt on the Atkins diet. :thup:

:spin:

Hi Old Man,
It's sensational stuff, isn't it? It's actually not an interview with Dr. Rosedale, rather an address he gave to some diabetes talking heads in Boulder, Colorado several years ago. It was reading it that first got me interested in low carbing in early 2002. His basic premise is that carbohydrate is an unnecessary macronutrient and the insulin metabolism needed to deal with it causes so many health problems (weight gain only being one of the most prevalent, but certainly not the most serious). He doesn't think any reduction in carbohydrate is too much if you're chasing optimum health. However like Atkins he recognized that for the phytonutrient benefits provided by plant food sources, a small proportion of lowcarb vegetables doesn't do any harm , and for the culinary variety they offer, make low carbing a far more interesting W.O.E. I'm wondering why you think his approach is that different to Atkins. I actually emailed the guy to clarify a couple of the points he made, because his stuff was so fascinating and so thoroughly debunked the necessity of any carbs at all, and he agrees with everything Atkins ever said, with the caveat that he thinks most people don't have the self discipline to do induction properly. A brief perusal of even this forum should convince you that he is probably underestimating many people.
That said, if you like the idea of some 'easier' approach to low carbing than Atkins, and you think Dr. Rosedale provides that (although I'm wondering why?) then go for it! Low Carb is IMHO ( and in my experience long term induction levels of carb have resulted in only health improvements) the healthiest way to eat. For everybody - weight warriors or not. Both Atkins and Rosedale recognize that most people are just more comfortable with 'maintenance' carbs, so unless you're really happy with going lower in terms of social pressures and variety, the marginal health benefits of such low carb levels are probably not worth the hassle. I personally love cooking and with a bit of creativity my gastronomic world really rocks - even with very low carb levels. It's the mitochondria. Love your mitochondria. Ron Rosedale explains why better than most. But as Doreen pointed out in an earlier post, his address is very long, so be prepared to read every word. They are all gems.

[Angeline]

Ron Rosedale explains why better than most. But as Doreen pointed out in an earlier post, his address is very long, so be prepared to read every word. They are all gems.

Indeed! Fascinating stuff, everyone should read it. It's a must

[OzSlimmer]

Thanks for posting OldMan. This article was very informative.

Quick question - in his talk, Rosedale says the following:
"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person, 25 percent to 30 percent of calories from protein, and 60 percent to 65 percent from fat. You can get beef that is not grain-fed."


For those of you tracking and doing Fitday - would you say you fall around these percentages? I think my protein levels are usually a little higher than fat, and I was surprised by these ratios.

[bluesmoke]

OzSlimmer, those are very close to Atkins standard ratios, under the theory, you burn fat, as ketone bodies, for fuel rather than carbs. Nyah Levi

[wcollier]

Hi Debmeg:
Has anyone else read the book, seen it? Can confirm that the Dr Ron Rosedale of this article is the same doctor of the new 'rosedale' diet?
The link to the article isn't active, but I know that The Rosedale Diet book just came out on the 1st of September. I'm waiting for my copy in the mail. I've read another book called "Mastering Leptin" so I'm anxious to compare them.

Wanda

[tortoise]

Hi Debmeg:

I've read another book called "Mastering Leptin" so I'm anxious to compare them.

Wanda

How is that book? Does it seem well-founded?

[wcollier]

I guess he's changed some of the vocabulary a bit to make it seem like a new approach...don't know, since I haven't read his book yet.We'll be seeing a lot more about leptin and insulin b/c leptin has been found to be the master hormone for out survivial, which in turn is related to insulin and adrenaline. In fact, insulin resistance AND leptin resistance (and adrenaline resistance) are found hand in hand. There are leptin receptors found on the B-cells of the pancreas, which have the ability to turn off insulin production.

Leptin goes one step further and explains a lot of strange eating behavior that insulin control alone can't explain. For example, why some people tend to get hungrier as the day goes on or why people tend to cheat late in the afternoon. Or why people can lose weight after dieting, but gain it back and then some afterwards. These are people that we tend to ridicule for lack of willpower, but they are actually serious hormonal problems.

So it's not that it's been changed to seem like a different approach, new research has changed the face of how we diet. Leptin's very interesting, cutting edge information, since it was only discovered in the mid 1990s.

How is that book? Does it seem well-founded?Tortoise, "Mastering Leptin" had 715 references, so I believe it was well-founded. The book isn't really about diet (other than their belief that carbs should be reduced, but not eliminated). It's more about normalizing the hormonal patterns by the structure of our eating (when we eat, how much we eat, how often we eat). If you're looking for a book that says "eat x amount of carbs/day or x amount of protein", it's not the book you're looking for.

I just got "The Rosedale Diet" book today so I'll let you know what I think.

Wanda

[Angeline]

Mastering Leptin does sound interesting. Is it worth buying? Has it changed the way you eat in any way ?

[ceberezin]

Ron Rosedale’s piece is highly informative. I learned a great deal from it, and I am grateful to him for that. It should be required reading for nutritionists and med students. His web-site seems to have given low-carbing a new and better name. He calls it “metabolic medicine.” We might state the principles of metabolic medicine as follows, given what Rosedale outlined in his speech: Metabolic Medicine seeks to prevent and control disease states through controlling insulin resistance, glycation, and oxidation, and to promote health through lipolysis and beneficial hormonal pathways.

What we don’t need, however, is yet another low-carb guru to set up shop in competition with other low-carb gurus. Unfortunately, this seems to be the road Rosedale has taken. What we do need is an International Society for the Advancement of Metabolic Medicine to promote low-carb nutrition and drug-avoiding therapies and counter the damage done by the AHA and the ADA. The work done by Feinman at Downstate is a step in the right direction.

[wcollier]

Hi Angeline:

Mastering Leptin does sound interesting. Is it worth buying? Has it changed the way you eat in any way ?
I've just briefly skimmed The Rosedale Diet (TRD) and it's probably more along the "low carb" line of eating found on this forum (except saturated fat should be limited with lots of mono fats and Omega 3s). Mastering Leptin (ML) advocates a more "balanced" approach to eating (ie. a fist size of protein, a fist size of unprocessed starchy carb and unlimited veggies kinda thing). I thought the book was well worth it just for the information on leptin, which doesn't really seem to be included in "The Rosedale Diet" book.

On a very brief glance (I just received the book this morning), both books advocate that you NOT eat 3 hours before bed. Doing so interferes with leptin. They both also advocate NOT to overeat at mealtime. Both these rules, I follow.

What's just floored me from TRD is that apparently we can get our leptin levels tested through blood work to determine how difficult a time we'll have losing weight. I think this is huge for people who can't lose weight (even doing LC) with normal thyroid. I think we're only scratching the surface on the whole "metabolic" issue. DH is a MD, so I'd like to find out if this bloodwork is available in Canada.

So to make a short story long :lol: , I'd say ML was worth it, but some may not agree with everything the author says.

Wanda

[debmeg]

so was i right, wanda, in thinking that TRD is basically just a low carb plan but he says leptin rather than insulin is the culprit? i'm not negating what you say about the importance of leptin; i'm very curious to learn more about it, but i'm just wondering about his motives in writing this new diet book focusing on leptin when all his previous research was in insulin.

[wcollier]

Hi Deb:

I'll have to wait to answer your question until I can read the book in its entirety. My first instinct is to say "yes", leptin's the culprit, not insulin. But that would present an oversimplified picture. When it comes to hormones, you kind of have to look at the whole hormonal picture b/c hormones are all interconnected.

Leptin controls appetite. So does insulin. Leptin is a hormone secreted by the fat cells, insulin is a hormone secreted by the pancreas. But almost all overweight people have high leptin levels b/c they lose the ability to communicate properly with the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus thinks there isn't enough fat stored, so the metabolic rate stays low b/c the brain thinks the body is starving. Unfortunately, the brain can't look in the mirror, it relies on correct communication of the hormone. This is what is known as leptin resistance, when communication between the hormone and the hypothalamus breaks down. It goes hand in hand with insulin resistance.

Leptin also communicates with insulin like 2 heads in a department store. Insulin production stimulates leptin production. Leptin receptors are located on the insulin-producing "B-cells" on the pancreas. Once leptin resistance sets in with high leptin levels, the B-cells don't respond to the signal from leptin to stop making insulin. However, insulin keeps stimulating leptin production at the same time insulin promotes calories to storage as fat. Then the high circulating insulin causes cells to be resistance to insulin. Leptin resistance sets the stage for insulin resistance and the two problems play off each other. Confused yet? :daze:

So I'd still say that the change of focus to "leptin" by Dr. Rosedale is due to this cutting edge new research. I give him credit. It's taken 10 years for leptin to finally become mainstream (other than Lyle McDonald's CKD to help increase leptin, which is a whole different ball of wax).

LOL, of course, I still say to wait until I read the book. All the info I have is from ML.

HTH,
Wanda

[debmeg]

*very* confused, yes! :D

i am interested in discovering more about the leptin/insulin connection, but also in whether there is any difference in practice in dealing with a leptin problem if that's the problem rather than insulin. ie is his diet to deal with problems with leptin any different than what we've all been doing all along, thinking we were doing it to help our insulin levels, when really it's our leptin that we needed to be thinking about?

no pressure or anything - as you say, you'll need to actually read the book properly first!

thanks very much for the explanations wanda!

deb

[wcollier]

Well, I just finished the book. I was very disappointed in the lack of information about leptin. Mastering Leptin is MUCH more informative for those who are interested in the details about leptin. I found the guidelines in this book to be very similar to "Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill".

Basically, he treats leptin almost interchangeably with insulin, which is understandable mainly b/c carbohydrates increase leptin levels (as well as insulin levels). Where he deviates (compared to Atkins) is that a diet high in good fat also lowers leptin. Saturated fat is considered "2nd generation carbohydrates", which wasn't found in such abundance amongst our paleo ancestors in comparison to today's manipulated food. So the focus is more on mono fats and Omega 3s (with some Omega 6, but not excessive). Saturated fat isn't eaten for the first 3 weeks (including beef unless it's grass fed), but can be included after that. Olive oil, avocado oil, almond oil, fatty fish, Omega 3 eggs and lots of nuts for this high fat diet. Ideally, the Omega 3:6 ratio should be 1:1.

Protein from all sources is moderate (around 60-75g per day), which is much lower than most people who low carb. Extra protein (about 10g) is allowed for physically active people. This is b/c excess protein is converted to glucose. The plan probably isn't going to attract a lot of weight lifters. :)

Leptin not only tells your brain when to eat, how much to eat and when to stop eating, but it's the master hormone that tells the body whether it should burn away excess fat. The author did mention that he'd treated, with success, many people who'd plateaued (with a lot to lose) on Atkins. So maybe the "leptin" issue was the problem for these people.

The problem with this plan is that there are no guidelines, so if you need structure, you'll find this frustrating. The only guideline was on protein intake, but there are no guidelines around carbs. Just eat all the high-fiber veggies you want. The "A List" varies from low carb items like green veggies to higher carb items like rutabaga, soybeans and hummus (as a condiment). Fruits are on the "B list", added after 3 weeks. Oddly, he includes tomatoes under fruits (yes, technically they are a fruit, but why the strict guidelines unless they're loaded with fructose). He has rutabagas and turnip in the "A list" with no restrictions, but restricts tomatoes. Oh, and peanuts are not allowed, ever!

So these are the rules from Mastering Leptin:
1) Never eat after dinner, 3 hours before bedtime. Allow 11-12 hours between dinner and breakfast.
2) Eat 3 meals a day
3) Do not eat large meals
4) Eat a breakfast containing protein
5) Reduce the amount of carbohydrates eaten.

Here are the rules on The Rosedale Diet:
1) Avoid sugar and starch
2) Don't be afraid of fat, but eat good fat - limit saturated fat for the first 3 weeks
3) Eat the right amount of protein for you
4) Eat when you are hungry
5) Don't eat for at least 3 hours before bed
6) Exercise after the last meal of the day
7) Don't eat a lot at one time
8) Eat slowly

In summary, from what I've read, these 2 plans agree that carbs should be reduced, Omega 3s are critical, food should NOT be eaten 3 hours before bedtime, we should never overeat and always eat slowly.

Hope this helps,
Wanda

[debmeg]

thank you very much Wanda!! good to know.

[VAgrrl]

Thanks for posting OldMan. This article was very informative.

Quick question - in his talk, Rosedale says the following:
"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person, 25 percent to 30 percent of calories from protein, and 60 percent to 65 percent from fat. You can get beef that is not grain-fed."


For those of you tracking and doing Fitday - would you say you fall around these percentages? I think my protein levels are usually a little higher than fat, and I was surprised by these ratios.

did my Fitday for today after finishing up Dr. Rosedale's lecture

my fat was a little higher: 69%
protein a little lower: 21%
carbs: 7 g

but that's just for today, I think that some days my fat/protein percentages would be a bit different, but generally they would be pretty much at that level

[tortoise]

I just spent some time with Rosedale's book in a bookstore last night. While I want to get the Mastering Leptin book based on the recommendations here, I'll hold off on Rosedale's. I agree that there just isn't much science in it, and many of the aspects of the diet I find the goofiest (e.g. no peanut butter) aren't explained well at all.

Still, I respect other things I've read by him and I might get it when it comes out in paperback or someone is selling it used.

Other details about his approach:

- He thinks you should always limit saturated fat (doesn't say NONE, just to limit it), including beef and pork, which should only be eaten occasionally. I think this is odd, because some cuts of beef are not all that different from chicken in terms of fat, and beef has a lot to recommend it nutritionally.
- He doesn't think we should eat any fruit other than berries, ideally. I didn't quite get the full story on his "no fruit" thing - he did mention avocados as being OK, but if he's going by that technical (botanical) definition, what about peppers, cucumber, etc?
- His idea of how much protein we should have didn't make sense to me - he just stated an amount (I think it was 60-75 grams) that everyone should eat. That's pretty strange, IMO.
- No artificial sweeteners. "If you must", sparing use of sucralose and stevia
- I think the timing of meals bit is interesting. My husband gets home late, and I do eat closer to bedtime than is recommended, and no way am I going to be exercising after dinner! But I have a feeling I'd do better if I was able to follow his recommendation. And I think I have read things about meal patterns and leptin
- Very little dairy. No hard cheeses. No milk. No more than 1 cup of yogurt per week. Never very well explained, except for the saturated fat.

[ceberezin]

Part of the attraction of low-carbing is all of the wonderful, savory foods you can enjoy and still eat healthily. Rosedale's restrictions strike me as very particular and particularly joyless. He takes the idea of controlling metabolism to an extreme, as though controlling hormonal pathways were the main reason to eat. I haven't read his new book, although I did learn a lot from his speech to the nutritionists. But from all the reports, I'm finding his latest tack unattractive.

[wcollier]

Hi Tortoise:

I agree that there just isn't much science in it, and many of the aspects of the diet I find the goofiest (e.g. no peanut butter) aren't explained well at all.I think the peanut butter isn't allowed for 3 reasons: 1) they're highly allergenic, 2) they develop carcinogenic mold called aflatoxin, and 3) they're high in Omega 6 fatty acids which imbalance Omega 3s.

- He thinks you should always limit saturated fat (doesn't say NONE, just to limit it), including beef and pork, which should only be eaten occasionally. I think this is odd, because some cuts of beef are not all that different from chicken in terms of fat, and beef has a lot to recommend it nutritionally.Yes, I don't understand why we can't just eat lean cuts of beef and pork. I don't happen to like fatty meat and usually dissect the fat from the meat anyway.

- He doesn't think we should eat any fruit other than berries, ideally. I didn't quite get the full story on his "no fruit" thing - he did mention avocados as being OK, but if he's going by that technical (botanical) definition, what about peppers, cucumber, etc?It's strange to me too. Yet he includes turnip, rutabaga, black soybeans and a bit of hummus in the "A" list. Oddly, he includes tomatoes as a fruit in the "B" list without any explanation (yes, it's technically fruit, but so are peppers, cucumbers etc.) and pumpkin (low in carbs) is on the "C" list to always avoid. Huh?

- I think the timing of meals bit is interesting. My husband gets home late, and I do eat closer to bedtime than is recommended, and no way am I going to be exercising after dinner! But I have a feeling I'd do better if I was able to follow his recommendation. And I think I have read things about meal patterns and leptinLOL, I'm not exercising at night either. I have enough troubles sleeping. But the biggest "leptin" rule is no eating 3 hours before bed. It'll be interesting to see how you make out.


- Very little dairy. No hard cheeses. No milk. No more than 1 cup of yogurt per week. Never very well explained, except for the saturated fat.
Yes, he doesn't explain it really well, but he's anti-dairy b/c he believes that dairy products for calcium intake are overrated. Also, humans are the only species that drink milk after weaning. Also, lactose is an issue.

I agree, he could have gone into greater depth on A LOT of issues.

Wanda

[wcollier]

Part of the attraction of low-carbing is all of the wonderful, savory foods you can enjoy and still eat healthily. Rosedale's restrictions strike me as very particular and particularly joyless. He takes the idea of controlling metabolism to an extreme, as though controlling hormonal pathways were the main reason to eat. I haven't read his new book, although I did learn a lot from his speech to the nutritionists. But from all the reports, I'm finding his latest tack unattractive.LOL, if you don't like nuts and avocados, you're kinda screwed. I've been having metabolic problems lately and I tried eating low carb with no saturated fat (but high Omega 3 and olive oil). It's not the most pleasant experience, I must admit. Luckily I was diagnosed hypothyroid so maybe I can start to enjoy food again when I start hormone replacement. :)

Wanda

[tortoise]

Thanks, Wanda, I appreciate the explanations.

Eating earlier will be an issue to work out. My husband usually gets home between 8 and 9, and I am totally crashed by 11. Having dinner together feels important. And yet I know that when I have eaten earlier (on vacations, for example), I've tended to lose weight. So I think there is something going on there.

As for the rest of it, it seems like it's a combination of stuff that might really have something to do with leptin, and stuff Rosedale thinks is important. But I tend to think that stuff like dairy and peanuts is pretty individual. (And omega-6 FAs are in most nuts and seeds in substantial quantities.)

I still have to read the whole book to really make educated comments - but that doesn't seem to stop me from making the uneducated variety. :lol:

BTW, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "luckily, I've been diagnosed hypothyroid"! :)

[Hellistile]

Peanuts are not allowed on paleo-diets because they are a legume and legumes along with dairy are not allowed on a paleo diet. Diary is not allowed cause it's a product of agriculture. But, why Rosedale is specifically banning these items is unknown to me, however, Ray Audette, in NeaderThin explains in detail why these items are not allowed on a paleo diet.

[wcollier]

Hi Tortoise:
As for the rest of it, it seems like it's a combination of stuff that might really have something to do with leptin, and stuff Rosedale thinks is important. Yes, I agree. After reading both the books on Leptin, I realized that the authors incorporate some personal feelings into each plan. There are some commonalities between the two that I focus on instead.


BTW, I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "luckily, I've been diagnosed hypothyroid"! :)

:lol: Yeah, that sounded kind of weird. I'm not happy to be hypothyroid, but I'm relieved to know that there's a reason for the sudden weight gain and inability to lose (amonst other things). I've been jumping around, trying to find the magical "macronutrient" solution.

Wanda

[tortoise]

It really is good news to find out what is driving you nuts has a name and is treatable. It was the way you put it that made me smile. Best of luck getting your thyroid levels stabilized (it took a whole year for me, and I still wonder if a little T3 might not be a good idea).

[tom sawyer]

Does Rosedale go into any more detail on why he's so down on sat fats? I didn't think he made a very good argument against those, in his CO speech. It was the one aspect of his talk that I found unconvincing. The rest was right on target.

[coffeekb]

All of your knowledge and clinical language impressed and intimidates me! This is my first time posting on this site--I'm active on another board but you all seem to have more people looking into Rosedale which is my current focus. I read that initial article a couple weeks ago and sat up straight at his description of pre-diabetes. I had no clue until I read it that I had this. I bought a monitor and sure enough with only 1 sugar filled pieces of cheesecake at night (with my normal LC diet), my fasting glucose level was 109. If I ate carbs, I'm 100% sure based on the symptoms I've had that my readings would be in the daibetic range--very scary to me. After that, I went back to strict LC and my readings were always in the 90s. I read his book and another article that said optimal health needs to have a fasting amount below 85 so I was concerned that even LC wasn't getting me "healthy". So I followed HIS plan. I've done it for 5 days and have dropped 5 lbs that I had gained all in middle while having the symptoms he described (still have 7 more to get back to pre summer weight). AND my fasting tests each day have ALL been in the high 70s. SO, I think that some of the odd rules he has (peanuts, dairy, grain fed beef, lower protein) all are derived from how they affect insulin. Perhaps a LC follower without insulin issues would notice no difference if adding these things back in but someone with diabetes or prediabetes would? These things are all I changed from my normal Atkins and I saw these much improved results. I'm thrilled to have an answer to these odd things that I've been dealing with (gain in my middle, thirst, drowsiness, heart skipping a beat randomly and acne that I'd never had before) and hope to see more improvement as I continue this. It's so strict that I'm a bit afraid (bye bye taco salad loaded with cheese and full fat beef) but am excited for the new solution. Also an added note, I have a twin who is 22 lbs heavier than me yet is EXACT same size as me. We have always been the same size at the same weights before and this has really bothered me. Well, for another eye opener, his first question to determine if you are Leptin Resistant is "when you go on a weight loss diet, do you have trouble losing fat, that is, do you lose pounds but still remain flabby?". this totally described this new problem I've been having and was yet another eye opening moment given to me by this doctor. I'm a #1 fan at this point and feel like I've discovered something so important through his book. I hope others with insulin problems figure it out quickly like I did--I can't imagine what I would have put my body through if it weren't for boards like this posting articles like his. Sounds dramatic and dorky but it really is life changing.

[mio1996]

It's great that you've found answers! I haven't read very much on rosedale, but apparently he is helping some people. Good for you!

[caligrrl]

That link to his interview is not working for me.

[wcollier]

Hey Coffeekb:

No need to be intimidated, Coffeekb. :) This is a SUPPORT forum, we're here to help each other out. That's FANTASTIC news about the weight loss! Goes to show you that there isn't a "one size fits all" program. Sometimes people have to fiddle a bit.

BTW, I'm a twin too. Are you fraternal or identical?

Wanda

[SadLady]

I would like to know what the difference is between his diet and the Atkins diet. Does anyone knows?

Thanks

[triplemom]

SadLady, I'm following kind of an "Atkins/Rosedale" hybrid diet. I love Atkins, but I just took in too many calories, too much saturated fat, and way too much cheese! Rosedale limits the protein per meal - a 16-ounce steak wouldn't cut it! Also, the fat emphasis is on oils - olive, avocado oil (which I love), nut oils. He is also a big fish advocate. It definitely isn't low in fat! Cheese is also limited to the lower fat varieties - I stalled big time with cheese on Atkins. I'm still following the Atkins-type program, but my main differences is I'm using more oils, not much cheese, and more fish/lean protein. I'll continue to post results! I thought his book was an easy read, and there are some really good-sounding recipes! It almost reminds me of a Mediterranean-style Atkins diet.

[serrelind]

So where do carbohydrates come in?

They don't. There is no essential need for carbohydrates. Why are we all eating carbohydrates? To keep the rate of aging up, we don't want to pay social security to everyone.

Hahaha! That cracked me up.

[Nancy LC]

One thing I wonder about the Rosedale diet is that if you're just restricting your calories more by following his forumula and that might lead to lower glucose and better weightloss. For instance, if you were to eat a similar number of calories on Atkins, you might also have the same results. Just wondering out-loud if that might be the case. All sorts of interesting biological changes happen when you reduce calorie intake.

One thing that I've heard echoed is that the stricter the diet, the more you can expect to lose weight simply because you have fewer choices. There's that M&M's experiment where you will eat more M&M's if there are more colors and that supposedly represents the increased choices.

Well, I could do the Rosedale diet myself I suppose and find out. I have been tracking calories on Atkins, and eating low calorie most of the time, but I don't have a blood glucose meter.

Rereading the summary of the book, I'm convinced its a low calorie diet. If you can't eat a lot of protein, you can't eat carbs and you can't eat much fat in terms of dairy or nuts, about the only the only way you can get a lot of calories is to guzzle oil. And who is going to do that?

[triplemom]

Right now, I'm going to follow the Rosedale diet until I get bored (which hasn't happened yet). I think its pretty similar to Atkins induction with the allowed lower-carb vegetables and protein. I guess I'm looking at it as my basic plan and will become more "Atkins-like" and allow myself occasional treats such as cheese. When I did Atkins, I went cheese crazy and ate hunks and wads of the stuff, which I'm sure wasn't Dr. Atkins' intention for me either! This is typical my body, my science experiment for me! We'll see how it goes. I do know that I'm in ketosis. I'm trying to drink 80 to 100 oz of water per day also.

[triplemom]

Nancy, I'm managing to do some oil damage on Rosedale! I'm finding all kind of uses for oil - who knows, I may even stop squeaking! :lol: I love salads with oil/vinegar, and I've been sauteeing my protein/vegetables in oil.

[Nancy LC]

Heh! That's what I need, Triplemom! My hinge (knee) is squeaking!

[Sona]

Triplemom (or anyone familiar with Rosedale): You mention that the diet is similar to Induction Atkins. Does it ever segue from "induction" restrictions to an OWL-type relaxation (allowing the introduction of a wider range of foods)? Or is the "induction" mind-set what you're on forever?

I'm interested, of course, in hearing more about the regimen and in hearing from others how it has helped them; I'm a little concerned, however, that as a WOE, it may be too restrictive (for me, for instance) over the long term. Almost anyone can follow a restrictive program for a few months, but if the diet isn't expansive enough after its initial stages to avoid the deprivation mentality that can set in after a while, it may not be able to stand up over time.

Do you know what I mean? Any thoughts?

[wcollier]

Hi Nancy LC:

Although it doesn't seem like much at first glance, you can eat lots of nuts (preferrably raw), avocados and olives.. no-fat dairy and Omega-3 enriched eggs are also allowed.

Saturated fat is only limited for the first 3 weeks, so it's not a "forever", just like Induction on Atkins isn't meant to be "forever". Also the "non-starchy" carb list, from what I can see, is not limited. The B & C carb lists ARE limited though. So probably what you give up in saturated fat, you make up for with a bit more carbs.

.... I agree that it would be hard to give up the sat fats. I've done it, but I can't say I enjoyed it. :)

Wanda

[wcollier]

Sona, I didn't see your post, sorry!

The first phase is a 3 week program, which is more restrictive although not really as restrictive as Induction, IMO. But that probably depends on what your favorite foods are. The 2nd phase is more liberal with fruits, starchy veggies and some legumes (with restrictions). However, the plan mostly advises to stay away entirely from full fat hard cheeses (except low fat) and grains (plus the others you'd expect on a lower carb plan).

As a WOL? I don't know.... but then I don't like to be told to eat a certain way for the rest of my life, I like to manipulate the "food rules". I'm just like that. :) Probably the only way to find out is to try it, but it's probably not for everyone.

Wanda

[coffeekb]

Hi! I'm an identical twin. It's quite fun being a twin, don't you think?

Triplemom--I'm planning to use atkins more liberally once I get to goal, or on special weekends kind of like you said. I am eating 100% clean on a normal basis and am looking forward to treats like Taco Salad, cream cheese type desserts, etc.! Too bad I don't lose eating that stuff like most! I'm on day 4 of the 3 week initial phase so I'll post back when I'm done and let you know how I did. So far I'm down 2 lbs.

[Melsy]

OK.. today is the day.. I am starting TRD... I heard Dr. Rosedale on the radio doing an interview, and it really made a lot of sense... esp. with the *weight around the middle* part. I bought the book and read it.

I've never done a low-carb diet... I've done WW & lost weight.. but lost my way the past couple of years...

We'll see how it goes.... glad to see this support forums.

I think the things I have going for me with this is:
I love pretty much all foods, especially Avacados & olives... (although, I would guess I will get sick of them)

I like the fish listed in the "A" list, and I was intrigued by the option of eating Buffalo, Venison, etc.

-Mel

[Melsy]

OK.. well, I'm 12 days into the diet. I have lost 8 pounds so far.. although I cant really tell so much, but I have A LOT to lose. The diet is pretty tricky to follow *to the letter* especially if you have to go out to eat - which- I travel for work, so this is pretty much the case sometimes. The thing that I guess I have done the most against it is eating Iceburg lettuce... I mean, if you have to go out to eat.. inevitably a salad will have this, and when I'm on the road (and I'm usually with someone else) sometimes there arent 10 different places to choose from.

The good part is the nuts and avacados.. I love avacados... the bad part is that it is an expensive diet. Like I said... nuts & avacados.. olive oil.. feta cheese.

I like the diet, and (not to seem offensive to anyone - I hope) I feel a little better about not eating the saturated fat. I think if I did another low-carb diet.. I would undoubably hog out on cheese.

So.. I'm going to continue on this.. hopefully I will continue to see results.

-Mel

P.S... I have found that cutting down on the carbs has been the easiest part of this diet... I don't miss them really so much.

[tortoise]

Thanks for the report, Mel - keep us posted!

[grandpa]

Melsy,
Love the HomeStar Runner image! "He's got the heart of a champion!"

[Melsy]

Melsy,
Love the HomeStar Runner image! "He's got the heart of a champion!"

Ya I'm a big HS runner cartoon fan! Now.. Homestarrunner.. some say he's an excellent athlete.. it is "lil brudder" who has the heart of a champion!

http://www.northeastcrawlers.org/forum/images/avatars/gallery/homestar/brudder.gif

Absoluetly the funniest episode ever.. imo

-Mel

[kokle]

I found this in"The Rosedale Diet" by Ron Rosedale.

(p18) "Health and life span is determined by the proportion of fat vs sugar people burn throughout their lifetime." The more fat you burn as fuel, the healthier you will be. The more sugar you burn as fuel as fuel, the more disease-ridden you will be, and the shorter your life will likely be.

[Melsy]

Well so far, I am down 15 1/2 pounds with this diet.. I have been probably, I'd say 85-90% good on it. My main cheat is saturated fat (sausage with my eggs if we go out for breakfast) sometimes & low-carb beer or low-carb mikes light.. (which is allowed.. but I dont think he means in the amount I sometimes overindulge with..) I havent had any pasta, breads or sweets at all.

I do exercise 15 minutes a day on an elliptical machine about 4-5 times a week. I'm sure if I was more strict and exercised a little more.. the weight would come off faster.. but I am happy with the weight loss so far (its been about 5 1/2 weeks).

I have to be honest & admit that I have only ready prolly 1/2 of the book.. but concentrated on the actual *diet* part.. as to what I can and can't eat.. and notsomuch the science of it all.. but I'm slowly getting through the whole book.. it is very repetative.. telling you why the diet is healthy for you.

-Mel