I feel horrible!

[DrH]

All day, I have felt horrible with my blood sugar being double it was yesterday for no reason (I have not eaten today). I have tested a number of times today as I feel sick to my stomach and very jittery/nervous. The meter(s) (I actually went out and bought another one just in case mine was broken) states that my BS is between 150-180 (Since going on Metformin, my BS typicall runs in the 80s-90s). Are these normal symptoms of higher BS? What the heck is going on? I ate 10 chocolate chips and three onion rings 24 hours ago and as I said, I have not eaten since! Jill

[Lisa N]

Jill, are you feeling queesy because you're coming down with a bug or because of what you ate? Either way, blood sugars can climb dramatically even when you haven't eaten due to gluconeogenesis in the liver. The answer to that isn't to continue fasting, but to eat to turn off that whole process. Have you continued to take your medication even when not eating?
Blood sugars can also be elevated when you are sick with a viral infection, stomach bug or cold.

[Rose1942]

Awwwww, sorry you feel so bad. I probably won't make you feel better but coincidentally I have felt lousy for a couple of days myself - and my sugars have been higher than they should be. Like you I tested with 2 different meters and they both show high. Last night I thought I had what they call 'delayed stomach emptying' which I guess is gastroporesis (?), and was sort of nauseated with that. Turns out my gallbladder had a surprise for me later on in the night, woke me with a touch of colic. Not the severe kind, just enough to get my attention. And I hadn't eaten anything weird, or even a lot of anything that day either. But I was STARVED all day, no kidding, and i was trying to fight that empty feeling. Craving things and complaining to the board that I had all these cravings. Geez, I shoulda see something coming........

So I am thinking that anything to do with the stomach/digestion/ bug or something, can indeed raise blood sugar like Lisa said above. I'm eating very light and sort of bland today, giving it another day before I get too concerned. Maybe this will pass and my sugar will return to normal, hope so. Maybe yours will too - hope you feel better.

(Just thought a kindred miserable soul would give you some company, lol)

[MizKitty]

Well if misery loves company, let me join the group. By coincidence, I was about to make the same kind of post. I don't know what in the world is going on with my blood sugars, which had been steadily ranging in the mid 90's to mid 100's since I went off of insulin about 5 weeks ago. They've been stupid high for days, and getting higher, despite my eating VLC trying to get them down.

I'm not sick, no infection going on that I'm aware of, haven't forgot to take my metformin (in fact, I've upped the dose by 500mg yesterday and today) no TOM.

I first noticed them a little high Saturday night (148 at bedtime), and figured it was hidden carbs eating out at a restaurant. So I basically ate meat and egg Sunday and Monday, which should have made them plummet, but today they were higher than I've seen in a year, 191 when I woke up and 159 right now.
I'm clueless.

I know that's not helpful, Jill. Hope we all figure out what's going on.

[CarolynC]

Me, four.

Like MizKitty, I'm not sick, have no known infection, and it's not TOM. But, for the past 3 days my waking blood sugar has been in the 170s (as opposed to the 100s). My blood sugar is currently 138, even though I haven't eaten in 4 hours, which would normally put it in the 90s. I have no idea what has caused this. I eaten about 30 g carbs per day and haven't even eaten anything that would have had hidden carbs.

I hope that you are feeling better soon, Jill and Rose.

[Rose1942]

This is all just too weird! But I am almost convinced that I am fighting something off, but I can't figure out what. I feel sluggish, almost feverish (though I have no fever) and a little achy today. Sometimes around this time of year my allergies start to kick in though, that could be it. The trees around here are starting to put out pollen, that was in the news last night. I wonder if being sensitive to that sort of thing just challenges the immune system and affects blood sugar? This is the first Spring season that I have known I am diabetic so I have nothing to go on other than a nagging sense of something being 'off'. Well, on with the Benadryl I guess, I don't know what else to do.

I did discover something kind of interesting though, during this little episode, and whether it is valid I don't know. First, in case you don't know this, taking Pepto Bismol turns the stool black. That is a little scary if one doesn't realize that! Anyway, the night before last, when I was feeling crummy with the gallbladder thing, I took 2 tabs of Pepto. It sort of helped I think. Anyway, forgot about it until this morning, when I discovered that it had taken like 36 hours for that stuff to pass thru my system! So taking a couple tabs of Pepto is a good way to find out how efficient your 'recycling system' is -LOL!

[dancinbr]

Well we all have learned you must eat.

Fasting for too long will trigger higher BG.

We have also learned that illness and stress can raise blood sugars.

Keep to your routine.

Make sure you are taking your Metformin ER; it does help with the liver.

Lets see what happens after a few days.

Blood pressure goes up too when you are ill or about to come down with something.

I hope everything works out for you.

Ralph

[v-effect]

Hi all,

It seems odd (to me) to attribute feeling ill to a blood sugar below 200. I just went through my premenstrual week and despite low carbing and raising my basal by 30 percent (!) and doubling my carb/ insulin ratio, I still saw bgs in the upper 200s. I did not feel ill- and indeed I rarely feel ill from a blood sugar below 250, unless I have not been receiving insulin for some reason. Perhaps it is the meds you are on? 150-180 may not be ideal, but it's not terrible, either.
V.

[dancinbr]

Hi all,

It seems odd (to me) to attribute feeling ill to a blood sugar below 200. I just went through my premenstrual week and despite low carbing and raising my basal by 30 percent (!) and doubling my carb/ insulin ratio, I still saw bgs in the upper 200s. I did not feel ill- and indeed I rarely feel ill from a blood sugar below 250, unless I have not been receiving insulin for some reason. Perhaps it is the meds you are on? 150-180 may not be ideal, but it's not terrible, either.
V.

Wow!

Are you low carbing? 6-12-12 or at least below 60?

You are definitely very thin from your weight stats!

Have you also tried using fast acting insulin such as Novolog to help bring those numbers down.

I use both basal insulin and fast acting insuling to bring my numbers down.

Are you T1 or T2?

I know lots of questions.

I also agree that I wasn't feeling ill with numbers above 300, but we all know that long term that definitely brings on serious damage.

Best wishes,

Ralph

[Lottadata]

I've been having the same kind of week! I've also been having a lot of congestion, cough, and vertigo from a stuffed up ear.

But I know the REAL reason my bgs are up. I'm supposed to go in for an every-six-month A1c test on Monday.

It NEVER fails. Bgs are always horrible the week before the test, and that always pushes up the result. I just know I'm going to be at 5.7% again despite months of really, really good control.

My A1c is always higher than would be predicted from my testing--I found some research that found this is common and that people are consistent in it. If you are .7% higher than you expect based on a lot of testing, you will almost always be that much higher on another test.

But dang! I've seen a couple readings this week I hadn't seen in a LONG time. What a lousy time for my spring cold.

[CarolynC]

Sometimes around this time of year my allergies start to kick in though, that could be it. The trees around here are starting to put out pollen, that was in the news last night. I wonder if being sensitive to that sort of thing just challenges the immune system and affects blood sugar?
I'm beginning to suspect that my own blood sugar rise (and it's dropped a little but is still high) is due to allergies. Most years, I am not noticeably affected by pollen. However, there is an exceptional amount of it this year and in the past day I've begun to get a slight watery eyes and nose.

[MizKitty]

I've never known myself to be an allergy or hay fever sufferer, but the last few evenings, I have felt sneezy, and it hasn't manifested into a cold, so maybe it is unusually high pollen?
Is that a known cause of raising bloodsugars for diabetics?
If it is, it's a new one to me!

I saw better numbers yesterday, Wake 138
Right before dinner 99
2 hr PP 114, and this morning's FBG was a nearing-normal 113.
But I only ate 1000 calories and 7 net carbs yesterday to get there.

Hope those of you feeling under the weather get well soon.

[v-effect]

Wow!

Are you low carbing? 6-12-12 or at least below 60?

You are definitely very thin from your weight stats!

Have you also tried using fast acting insulin such as Novolog to help bring those numbers down.

I use both basal insulin and fast acting insuling to bring my numbers down.

Are you T1 or T2?

I know lots of questions.

I also agree that I wasn't feeling ill with numbers above 300, but we all know that long term that definitely brings on serious damage.

Best wishes,

Ralph

Why wow? Yes, I low carb- I do 12-10-8, though sometimes I do carb count and use a sliding scale. I am on an insulin pump, so my fast acting is both my basal and meal bolus. My numbers are back down, but when I am premenstrual, it doesn't really matter if I'm low carbing- I'm running high. I know that running high leads to complications, but sometimes it can't be helped!

V.

[Rose1942]

MizKitty, I have no proof that allergies raise blood sugar, I was just guessing because I personally seem to see a connection. Allergies do tend to challenge the immune system, mine anyway - and that raises blood sugars I guess. Maybe I am just clutching at straws though. This is the first real allergy season that I have known that I am diabetic, and I am on the hunt for anything at all that screws me up LOL.

[v-effect]

I've been having the same kind of week! I've also been having a lot of congestion, cough, and vertigo from a stuffed up ear.

But I know the REAL reason my bgs are up. I'm supposed to go in for an every-six-month A1c test on Monday.

It NEVER fails. Bgs are always horrible the week before the test, and that always pushes up the result. I just know I'm going to be at 5.7% again despite months of really, really good control.

My A1c is always higher than would be predicted from my testing--I found some research that found this is common and that people are consistent in it. If you are .7% higher than you expect based on a lot of testing, you will almost always be that much higher on another test.

But dang! I've seen a couple readings this week I hadn't seen in a LONG time. What a lousy time for my spring cold.

Why would a %5.7 be a bad A1C? Sounds good to me!
(I hope you are feeling better!)

[MizKitty]

v-effect, I guess Ralph said wow for the same reason I read that and said wow. From all I've read, I just don't believe that numbers in the 150-180 range aren't all that terrible, despite the fact that most doctors would say that's "good control". Doctors also believe that "diabetes always progresses".

My goal to keep my diabetes from progressing to complications down the road is achieving as close to normal blood sugars as possible, as Dr Bernstein suggests. Trying to be in the 80's fasting and spiking no higher than 120 after meals. That would probably give me an A1c around 5.

But I do agree that sometimes, running high can't be helped. We just got to keep fighting the battles and hope we eventually win the war!

[Lottadata]

Why would a %5.7 be a bad A1C? Sounds good to me!
(I hope you are feeling better!)

Because I've been keeping my blood sugars between 90 and 120 almost all the time for many months, which should generate a much lower A1c. A 5.7% A1c corresponds, supposedly, to an average blood glucose of 126 mg/dl. And that would imply a lot of time spent high to balance my fasting bgs in the 90s.

But my A1c is ALWAYS in that range even when I rarely see more than one reading over 140 every two or three days, and that only for maybe an hour.

Wish I was feeling better, but I've settled into the symptoms of a cold. At least I know WHY I was feeling the way I was the past couple days.

[MizKitty]

But my A1c is ALWAYS in that range even when I rarely see more than one reading over 140 every two or three days, and that only for maybe an hour.

My A1c is always higher than I expect, too. What do you think some possible explanations for that are? Ive never tested in the middle of the night...have you?... could BG be going up and staying there for long periods during the night?

[Nancy LC]

Can you reschedule your test for a few weeks later?

[Cajunboy47]

I was battling the BG numbers a few weeks ago. Truthfully, the cheats set off the higher numbers, then chasing to lower it with strict low carb meant higher than normal proteins and it yo-yoed for days on end without proper control.

Since being here in China, I've regimented myself with the supplements. Spreading them out at intervals throughout the day is giving me greater control. I'm waking up and my FBG testing is between 90-94 consistently the last several days.

Also, no scientific evidence here, but a hunch that keeping my proteins to under 20% might be contributing to normal readings.

Also, walking after my evening meal seems to be contributing to overall lower numbers.......

[Rose1942]

Hiya Ron, glad to know you are doing well! It's nice to see you back in the forums. Sounds like you are happy to be back in China, I know that is where you feel you have the best chance of controlling your numbers. Here's a wave from across the sea :wave:

[Squid]

My goal to keep my diabetes from progressing to complications down the road is achieving as close to normal blood sugars as possible, as Dr Bernstein suggests. Trying to be in the 80's fasting and spiking no higher than 120 after meals. That would probably give me an A1c around 5.

But I do agree that sometimes, running high can't be helped. We just got to keep fighting the battles and hope we eventually win the war!

I'm with you. I try very hard to keep my blood sugar under 120 at all times. If I have too much protein I can't do that. The funny thing is that I can eat 3 platefuls of veggies and that doesn't raise my blood sugar hardly at all. But the same amount of carbs in a whole wheat piece of bread, or beans or brown rice will raise it quite a bit.

I also find that going off low carb is particularly bad and always results in really high BG readings for 2-3 days. I rarely cheat any more because I see what it does to my body when I do.

I have a T1 friend who says it is too hard to control her blood sugar tightly. I'm worried about what is in her future.

[Lottadata]

My A1c is always higher than I expect, too. What do you think some possible explanations for that are? Ive never tested in the middle of the night...have you?... could BG be going up and staying there for long periods during the night?

MizKitty,

I blogged about an interesting journal article that explained more about the A1c/Glucose testing gap recently.

More Insight into Why the A1c Doesn't Match Your Meter Measurements (http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2008/03/more-insight-into-why-a1c-doesnt-match.html)

Some people's A1cs are always lower and some always higher. There are also racial difference. The calculations were drawn from white European populations and are off for Asians and Blacks.

But the important thing that article pointed out is that if a person's glucose measurements don't match predicted A1c one time, they will vary in the SAME WAY some other time.

So my A1c is ALWAYS about .6 higher than predicted.

The question that no research has answered in a way that settles the question is which measurement predicts complications: A1c or glucose. I'm rooting for glucose, because there is some evidence that variability of blood sugar is more predictive than average.

Two people can get the same A1c with one going from 50 to 350 and the other going from 130 to 170. But some research suggests the first one is more likely to have problems.

This is one HUGE reason why low carb dieting is so good for people with diabetes, because it avoids those spikes.

[Korban]

... stating it another way, I think smaller standard deviations in a bg population are probably more predictive of fewer long term complications.

/smile

[v-effect]

.

I have a T1 friend who says it is too hard to control her blood sugar tightly. I'm worried about what is in her future.


I don't know about your friend, but the targets for T1 are very different that T2. If I was 120 postprandial, I *know* I would be experiencing a crashing low in a matter of minutes. A1C's in the low 5s almost always signal that a T1 person is experiencing very dangerous lows. I am JUST AS afraid of lows as I am of highs. Sometimes this board is a little frustrating - people often assume that T1 is a similiar disease to T2. It is not.
Which gets me thinking- does anyone know if there is a low carb forum for T1's in particular?

V.

[Korban]

I only know of a "Sub-forum" that is exclusive to T1s...

http://www.diabetesdaily.com/forum/type-1-diabetes/

I don't visit this board often such that I don't even know if they recommend low carbs particularly.

/wave

[dancinbr]

I don't know about your friend, but the targets for T1 are very different that T2. If I was 120 postprandial, I *know* I would be experiencing a crashing low in a matter of minutes. A1C's in the low 5s almost always signal that a T1 person is experiencing very dangerous lows. I am JUST AS afraid of lows as I am of highs. Sometimes this board is a little frustrating - people often assume that T1 is a similiar disease to T2. It is not.
Which gets me thinking- does anyone know if there is a low carb forum for T1's in particular?

V.

The wow on my previous post was all about you seem to be doing everything right and yet high BG.

I know T1 is different than T2.

I also know two friends who are T1; one is on a pump and measures and calculates and sticks to small portions of carbs and is doing OK with her BG numbers.

My other friend has been T1 since childhood; she is about 60 now. So you know she has kept good numbers and also has been very deliberate with what she eats.

We always watched her in case of lows, which typically happened out at dances. She loved to line dance, which is quite aerobic when you do it continuously all night. That brings your BG down.

So, the wow was amazement nothing more.

However, Dr. B's book is all about T1s. I recognize that a T1 diabetic has absolutely no function at all while a T2 still has some post prandial function and/or is insulin resistant for whatever reason typically overweight such as myself.

It is two different worlds, but lots of overlap too.

I am happy to hear your numbers have come down again.

Best wishes,

Ralph :)

[Lottadata]

I don't know about your friend, but the targets for T1 are very different that T2. If I was 120 postprandial, I *know* I would be experiencing a crashing low in a matter of minutes. A1C's in the low 5s almost always signal that a T1 person is experiencing very dangerous lows. I am JUST AS afraid of lows as I am of highs. Sometimes this board is a little frustrating - people often assume that T1 is a similiar disease to T2. It is not.
Which gets me thinking- does anyone know if there is a low carb forum for T1's in particular?

V.

There are a ton of Type 1s over on tudiabetes.com and they are a warm, friendly bunch coming from all different approaches. But quite a few seem to be catching on to carb restriction as a way of getting better control.

There were quite a few Type 1s on Dr. Bernstein's forum on his web site last time I checked in there which was a while ago. But they follow his diet exactly the way he describes in in the book and do keep their blood sugars at that level.

You can't "sort of" do Bernstein if you are a Type 1 the way Type 2s, can. You have to do it exactly the way he describes it. But some people do, and some of them get spectacular blood sugars. It takes a lot of discipline.

There are a couple other diabetes forums with Type 1s, but they tend to be anti low carb.

[Korban]

V-effect,
As you probably know, I linked you a T1 forum earlier... so I decided I should go back and do some reading there. I started in the regular n00b forum. I was so taken aback by the recommendations to a n00b - avoid fats like the plague, etc... so I started trolling... Sometimes I can't help myself...

I did learn one thing - I won't recommend diabetesdaily.com/forum to anyone anymore unless I find that the particular thread I read was a real aberration.

Have a nice day
/smile

[Lottadata]

V-effect,

I did learn one thing - I won't recommend diabetesdaily.com/forum to anyone anymore unless I find that the particular thread I read was a real aberration.

Have a nice day
/smile

Yeah. They aren't the only one.

I got pretty much banned on the ADA forum for promoting what they called "my agenda." Which was to tell people that post-prandials of 180 were NOT tight control and that eating all those "healthy whole grains" was a great way to give themselves complications.

Now that I'm no longer posting there, other people cite my site from time to time. But we have to pick our battles carefully, and beating my head against a brick wall is NOT good for my blood sugar.

The situation today is about ten thousand times better than it was when I first waded into these discussions in 1998. Back then I was called a "murderer" for suggesting that people read and test out Bernstein's ideas.

[Shrinkinvi]

Perhaps your doctor should investigate whether you are suffering from an inflamation of your pancreas or if gall stones might be the culprit. High triglycerides can lead to this condition. Nonetheless you should get it checked out soon.

[Korban]

Jenny,
I was just wondering how many people you must have murdered over the past 10 years... I bet you made baby Jesus cry too.

/smile

[eddiemcm]

Jill
Diabetes effects are sometimes perplexing.
Are you okay now?
Best wishes
Eddie

[Rose1942]

Just a note re: the original subject - 'how come several of us had high blood sugars and felt like crap for a few days?' Well, we know that Jenny got a cold (sorry about that) so that may explain her situation. As for me, I never did come down with anything, just felt really allergic there. Still do to some extent but my BG's have returned to a much more satisfactory level. I have no idea what was going on, didn't change the food or the amounts or anything in particular. Just thought I'd post that because maybe sometimes we just don't know and if we don't know we can't do much about it!

P.S. They may have said that Jenny was a murderer but you can be darn well sure she wasn't a Cereal Killer!

[Korban]

P.S. They may have said that Jenny was a murderer but you can be darn well sure she wasn't a Cereal Killer!

I think the cereal killers are over at diabetesdaily.com. (with apologies for being off topic again...)

/smile

[eddiemcm]

I researched the history of the food triangle.
Comes from the Dept of Agriculture.
Maybe that excplains why the theory is SHXX!
Eddie

[dancinbr]

I researched the history of the food triangle.
Comes from the Dept of Agriculture.
Maybe that excplains why the theory is SHXX!
Eddie


Interesting history, huh?

I think you should give a brief somewhere on it again.

I remember vaguely and you are going to make me go back and look again.

It was some vague idea that suddenly everyone grasped and started pushing it.

It had very limited study material and was a misquote of the original research.

My memory is fuzzy on it, but it all had to do about many bad assumptions made it the way to go.

Ralph

[DrH]

I am starting to think that my high BS may have been the result of stress. Who knows if there is actually a correlation! As a researcher, I am mad at myself for not taking the time to rummage through the professional literature for peer reviewed studies in this regard - I just cannot find the time! At any rate, my stress has significantly diminished along with my BS readings, as I am back to a FBG of 85. I am glad to see that others found this thread helpful to discuss their concerns. I appreciate all of the replies. Jill

[Korban]

I am starting to think that my high BS may have been the result of stress. Who knows if there is actually a correlation!...
Jill

According to Bernstein (2007) pp 94-96 he indicates that stress and/or the release of adrenaline can play a major part in elevation of bg. On page 100 he speaks of infection related increases (and other places in the book by individual infection).

Until he became used to it, prior to a television interview (due to stress/nerves/adrenaline, I guess) he would often see bg elevations of 75 to 100 mg/dl!

I think that infections are a form of stress as well.

/smile

[Lottadata]

Rose,

Thanks for giving me a nice bout of laughter with which to start my day!

Korban,

Note that Bernstein also says he has never seen patients' blood sugars go up from the kind of day in day out emotional stress many of us mean when we say "stress."

One thing I've noticed as I get older is that I often go through a "coming down with something" reaction when there is a virus going around but don't end up getting sick. I think that may be because my immune system is much more effective now that I've got my blood sugar under control. But it is possible that the changes in the immune system due to fighting something off might raise blood sugar a bit.

When I was younger and had the undiagnosed MODY high blood sugars, I used to get colds and sore throats so often it was ridiculous. That really changed once I got into control.

This cold was very mild. A couple days of snuffling and now I'm pretty much over it.

[Korban]

Korban,

Note that Bernstein also says he has never seen patients' blood sugars go up from the kind of day in day out emotional stress many of us mean when we say "stress."


You are, no doubt, correct. However, I just know that my blood pressure levels while at work and especially on Fridays (two years ago) were almost always 200+/100+ and that was while taking 4 bp meds (I didn't normally measure bg). Weekend bps were markedly llower but not normal and there was an increasing trend from Monday to Friday. The stress for the most part was self induced from this classic Type A person. Once I was able to retire, my bp came down to normal range within a month and I was able to drop one bp med. My point is, every persons "day in day out emotional stress" may differ and may even differ over time of the week. I am fairly certain that the high bp was a component of my high bg, based on what I have read. I have no clue as to the relationship of bp's effect on bg though, but I suspect that it may be complex.

another 2 cents,
/smile