Regular Insulin in muscle, in lieu of very fast acting?

[RobLL]

My insurance covers no matter how much insulin I need, but each type is almost $100 for a three month supply. Don't mind with the Lantus because I use most of in in course of the 3 months.

I buy Regular from Walmart and get a lot of use out of a vial. But I need a very fast acting insulin. If I were to use Regular and inject it into muscle how would I go about titrating (sp?) it?

I use 23 units of Lantus a day, which means that I use about 1 unit an hour to cover basal and my very low carb diet. I need 4 units before heavy exercise, and if I am high anything less than four units doesn't do much.

My thighs have very little fat, and I suspect even a short needle will hit muscle. I think a unit of insulin drops me 10-15 points. So I am thinking of injecting 2 units and see what happens. Does anyone have a better protocol?

[v-effect]

I'm confused- why not switch from regular entirely?

V.

[RobLL]

$$$. I would only use about 15% or a very fast acting, and have to throw away most of it on a timing out. The Lantus lasts me about 40 days. And there are no inexpensive Lispro types available at lower prices. Now if I had a neighbor......

[Samantha22]

Insulin should be injected into the subcutaneous tissue..not muscle. Maybe you should try humalog...it's faster acting than regular insulin.
Lantus should only be taken once a day no matter what your levels are..

[RobLL]

Samantha - many people split their Lantus into a night time and morning time dose. Insulin is injected into muscle, because it then acts faster. See Dr. Bernstein. Humalog (Lispro) would cost me $70 a quarter, and that is too much for how little I would use, about a hundred units a month.

[v-effect]

Hi again,
What do you mean by "timing out"? Insulin, I have found is good for a *lot* longer than they claim. Since I only use 20 ish units per day in my pump, it usually takes my a couple of months to go through a bottle. And I find consistent potency throughout.

V.

[RobLL]

v-effect, I agree with you that it lasts longer than a month. I have 'timed out' vials at two months. How long do you use it?

I had my regular appt. with Doc today. A1Cs down to 5.1, and triglycerides still a little high. He is not accustomed to the idea of getting BGs to the 80s, and has only reluctantly taken me on as a patient. He acknowedged without comment my using regular insulin, and I did not want to push things by asking for a cartridge of Lispro to test!

I am continuing to lose a couple of pounds a month, wonder if that is enough to keep my triglycerides up?

[Lottadata]

Rob,

I don't think that is something you should fool with. From the way Bernstein describes it, its for lowering very high highs. It might be a lot more fast acting than you bargained for which would keep it from matching a meal.

The fast acting insulins like Novolog aren't all that fast acting. They don't really peak until about 1 hour and they are active the whole next hour, just like your food.

I think if you inject in the muscle the insulin is active WHAM and then it is over. Food isn't like that.

Plus, in a decade of reading diabetes boards I've never heard a single person, type 1 or type 2 ever describe using that technique.

What you might consider is getting pens for the fast acting. You get 5 in one pack. That way, when you don't use that much in a month, you don't spoil the whole batch. I get 7 months out of one pack of novolog pens, using 2-3 units one or two times a day, max.

The pen pack is more expensive than a vial, but there isn't that waste. I'm trying to get my doctor to write a letter to my new insurer explaining that, because they want me to buy the vials instead.

[Korban]

Dr. B says "If you see elevated triglycerides as you're losing weight, it's not somthing to worry about. Your triglycerides levels will drop as soon as weight loss levels off." Elsewhere, he speaks of target losses as one pound or two pounds per week depending. It doesn't seem unreasonable that one would observe higher triglycerides at a half pound per week loss based on the above.
However, this is just an informed guess.

/smile

[RobLL]

The vote seems to be 3 to 1, strong 3 against, and a maybe 1 for it. Agin wins. Thanks all.

I will check with my doctor next time about the pens to lower highs, like I said though, my insurance is really liberal if you use a lot of insulin, but they charge you just as much to use a little. Maybe doc would give me a couple pens.