Calcium and lower back pain?

[Womb]

I have been suffering from lower back pain for a great many years. After starting Atkins & reading about the importance of Magnesium supplementation, I decided to start taking about 500 mg daily. It improved my back considerably. I then read about the importance of taking calcium (among other vitamins) and started taking it as well. Around 1 week or so after adding calcium to my diet, my back pain has returned. I decided to Google calcium & back pain, and here's what I've found:

"Many people needlessly suffer pain -- including fibromyalgia, migraines and muscle cramps -- because they do not get enough magnesium. Many people worsen the problem by loading up on calcium, which flushes magnesium out of cells."

http://www.bellybytes.com/articles/magnesium.shtml


Can this be true?
Should I simply stop taking calcium supplements?
I'm really hoping that someone here understands this better than I do, and can give some advice on what may help me.
So tired of being in pain again.

[Zuleikaa]

The is an epidemic of magnesium deficiency in this country.

Are you taking vitamin D as well?

How much calcium are you taking?

Calcium without vitamin D is useless. Calcium and magnesium must be balanced from a 2:1 ratio up to a 1:1 ration of calcium to magnesium.

Too much calcium is not good.

[Womb]

The is an epidemic of magnesium deficiency in this country.

Are you taking vitamin D as well?

How much calcium are you taking?

Calcium without vitamin D is useless. Calcium and magnesium must be balanced from a 2:1 ratio up to a 1:1 ration of calcium to magnesium.

Too much calcium is not good.

I am taking 500-750mg of magnesium, 2000IU of vitamin D, and 1500mg of calcium daily.

[Zuleikaa]

I am taking 500-750mg of magnesium, 2000IU of vitamin D, and 1500mg of calcium daily.I would cut the calcium to 1200 mg/day. I would also up the magnesium and vitamin D a bit.

[Kisal]

Your calcium and magnesium should be in a ratio of 2 to 1. As for Vitamin D, my doctor just told me to increase my dosage to 1200mg.

[Womb]

I'm more than willing to tweak my dosages in order to relieve the pain.
I've just got to the point where I knew something was wrong, but unable to figure exactly what it was.
Having so many weeks of being virtually pain-free, only to have it return was hard to bear.
Thank-you Zuleikaa & Kisal :)

[Nancy LC]

I get muscle spasms when I consume too much dairy. I think there is something to this getting too much calcium in our diets. If you think about a more traditional diet in most parts of the world, they don't take in anywhere NEAR the amount of calcium we do.

[Womb]

I forgot to mention previously, when I had my mri done, it said that I have a degenerating disc (L4/L5), ( I have zero clue what that even means). My Dr said I might want to try seeing a chiropractor, or even an acupuncturist. I have a referral now to a bone specialist in August. I was thinking of canceling altogether when the Magnesium did such a fantastic job in relieving the pain. Not now I guess.
I'm hoping that someone here might be able to offer advice regarding other supplements that might help, maybe even some type of anti-inflammatory herbs?

[Nancy LC]

How about just cutting back on the calcium?

[Womb]

Yeah, cutting back is my best bet right now Nancy, I totally agree. I actually quit it altogether, which may not be good for me (?) but its a hell of a lot better than the pain! I was suprised how much it affected me all around though. I actually began taking the calcium after hearing Dr.Oz on Oprah saying how monumentally important it was when taking Magnesium. Silly girl.....

[pmezak]

I buy my husband a supplement from Rainbow Light called "Calcium +" that has 500mg of calcium to 1,000mg of Magnesium that is supposed to be good for muscular pains. I take a different formula, but I am having some low back pain....think I will take his for a while and see if it helps....! thanks for this info above about magnesium...

[cs_carver]

You also may want to look into manganese. I take it and it seems to help with pain some. Don't overdose on this, though.

You also may want to look into supplementing with silica. I believe it makes a difference to my joints.

[NorthPeace]

Womb, I have been dealing with mid- and lower-back pain and hip pain for the last couple of years. Significant weight loss over the past year has helped, but it did not continue to get better.

Recently, my physiotherapist gave me some stretches and exercises to do, and I began to improve again.

Also, you could look into some compounds that contain sulfur. After a bit of surfing I took the following notes a while back...

Glucosamine
- Typical dose 1500 mg/d

Methyl sulfonyl methane (MSM)
- a source of sulfur
- 1500 mg/d alone or with glucosamine sulfate reduces symptoms of knee osteoarthritis, reduces pain and improves knee function. No anti-inflammatory effect was found.
- No known side effects. No peer reviewed data on long term use in humans.
- "MSM is a naturally occurring nutrient, a sulfur compound found in typical human diets and those of virtually all other vertebrates. MSM is a natural component of many fresh fruits, vegetables, seafood and meat. Cow's milk is a particularly rich source of MSM. However, heat and processing can reduce the MSM quantity in foods....No recommended intake levels have been established for sulfur. Since most Western diets are high in protein, the majority of diets probably supply enough sulfur." http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T31893.html
- "Researchers make no claim about MSM as a supplement, but osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, muscle soreness and muscle pain respond to oral MSM....For those who do not want to take MSM as a supplement, food sources of sulfur are as follows: sunflower seeds, garlic, lentils, soybeans, and yogurt. Persons with kidney problems or recurrent kidney stones may not want to take MSM." http://www.all-natural.com/msm.html

Trimethylglycine hydrochloride (TMG)
- To treat high homocysteine levels
- To increase muscle mass in livestock farming
- Role in manufacture of carnitine
- Protects kidneys from damage
- Betaine HCL (Trimethylglycine Hydrochloride) is not found in nature. It is taken as a source of acid for people with poor digestion. Low levels of stomach acid may lead to bloating and heavy, sluggish digestion. This is because acidic conditions are required for the proper functioning of protein-digesting enzymes in the stomach. People who eat "on the run" and those who experience a feeling of fullness long after eating may choose a betaine supplement. Betaine should be avoided during pregnancy and when breastfeeding. It should not be taken on an empty stomach. http://www.academyhealth.com/abbethyd.html
- TMG (trimethylglycine), also known as anhydrous betaine, is found in a variety of plant and animal sources and is used in the conversion of homocysteine to methionine. Maintaining normal homocysteine levels is important for the health of the cardiovascular system. Betaine has been shown to help protect the liver and raise S-adenosylmethionine (SAM-e) levels, in animal studies. Betaine is also mentioned as betaine hcl or betaine hydrochloride. http://www.raysahelian.com/betaine.html
- Betaine is obtained by humans from foods, either as betaine or choline-containing compounds. Food items with the highest content of betaine are wheat, spinach, shellfish, and sugar beets. Estimates of betaine intake are from 0.1 to 1 g/day and as high as 2.5 g/day for a diet high in whole wheat and seafood. Thus, the intake depends on food composition but is probably also related to production of the food items, including growing and osmotic conditions. Alternatively, betaine is formed from choline. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylglycine

Hyaluronic acid (Sodium hyaluronate) aka hyaluronan
- A lubricating component of synovial fluid
- A component of articular cartilage
- Approved for use in eye surgery
- Oral use of hyaluronan has been lately suggested, although its effectiveness needs to be demonstrated. At present, there are some preliminary clinical studies that suggest that oral administration of Hyaluronan has a positive effect on osteoarthritis.
- Interstitial edema caused by accumulation of hyaluronan may cause dysfunction in various organs. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=1563592
- Injection into joints has some hazards associated with it.

I supplemented with glucosamine, and figure I got a fair bit of MSM from many dietary sources, and TMG from spinach. I am getting better but who knows how much benefit these were? Hard to say, but it didn't hurt.

[bike2work]

I had severe lower back pain three years ago; I have a ruptured fifth lumbar disk. I saw a chiropractor regularly for months with little relief. My doctor started talking about surgery and I got scared. I browsed amazon for books to better understand the issues.

This book: Healing Back Pain; The Mind Body Connection by John Sarno M.D. (http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection/dp/0446392308/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205380671&sr=1-1) totally cured me. I don't understand it. It's bizarre. I'm not into new age thinking or anything that can't be explained scientifically. But it worked. And my back pain hasn't come back in three years.

Actually it's not unscientific at all, it just looks like it at first blush. It's a very rational explanation of back pain and its connection to your thinking. He's not saying it's all in your head. He's saying (in part) that stress causes you to shut down oxygen to groups of blood vessels, causing pain. His therapy is pretty simple -- reading the book. I never even finished reading it because I was cured after a few chapters.

As for my ruptured disk, he explains that ruptured disks occur in exactly the same frequency in people without back pain as they do in people with back pain.

I wish all my problems could be solved as easily. It only costs $11 to give it a try. Much less than even a single trip to the chiro.

[ruthla]

I disagree that everybody's calcium/magnesium ratio should be 2/1. That ratio works for some people, but not others. Other people do well on a 1/1 ratio, or even a 1/2 ratio (more magnesium than calcium.) It may take some trial and error to figure out what works best for you personally.

You may need to only take magnesium if you're getting enough calcium from your diet. Or you may benefit from taking calcium, but then you'll need to take even MORE magnesium to balance it out.

Being in pain is more than just uncomfortable; it's a sign that something isn't right in your body. It sounds like you threw your cal/mag ratio out of whack when you started the calcium supplements

[Zuleikaa]

I disagree that everybody's calcium/magnesium ratio should be 2/1. That ratio works for some people, but not others. Other people do well on a 1/1 ratio, or even a 1/2 ratio (more magnesium than calcium.) It may take some trial and error to figure out what works best for you personally.

You may need to only take magnesium if you're getting enough calcium from your diet. Or you may benefit from taking calcium, but then you'll need to take even MORE magnesium to balance it out.

Being in pain is more than just uncomfortable; it's a sign that something isn't right in your body. It sounds like you threw your cal/mag ratio out of whack when you started the calcium supplementsI agree with ruthla.

[Womb]

I simply have to agree.
I don't think Dr Oz was refering to people like me.
I was hesitant to even ask for help here, but you have all given such knowledgeable pieces of incredible advice here
Thanks to each and ever one of you :rheart:

[gwynne2]

I ended up accidentally taking too much magnesium for a short while (it was in two of my supplements I didn't realize it was in, in addition to the straight mg oxide pill I was taking) and ended up, by the time I realized it, had serious fatigue/weakness and complete loss of appetite (not in a good way). Cut out all supplements and I was fine by the next day. The worst offender seems to be a calcium/zinc/mg combo pill I have. Any thoughts on this? I have no history of kidney problems. Is there such a thing as magnesium sensitivity?

[Nancy LC]

I'd blame it on the zinc. Too much magnesium will give you diarrhea as about the first symptom. I've had some muti-vitamins give me nausea and I think it was the zinc, IIRC.

[Zuleikaa]

I agree with Nancy.

Zinc will do it, especially if taken on an empty stomach.

[gwynne2]

I didn't have nausea, though. It was a gradually increasing full-body fatigue/weakness, eventually culminating in fatigue+feeling like my appetite had been completely cut off. Not nausea, just complete disconnection from food, and had to force it down (which was scary). I felt *drugged*.

I only finally linked it to my supplements because I would start to feel fatigued at night on the weeknights, but early in the day on weekends (especially on Sunday). Tied directly to the time I took the supplements. The symptoms I got *do* appear to be linked with magnesium overload, but if I just take a mg oxide pill by itself now, I'm okay...but if I take the calcium/mg/zinc combo (Origin brand, probably from Target, contains another form of mg in addition to oxide, can't remember but not caltrate(sp), I feel the weakness coming on.

I wonder if that particular bottle is a bad batch or something.

Still, thanks for the zinc info.