Orthorexia: Dirty secrets of the health-food junkies

[Demi]

The Telegraph
London, UK
22 February, 2008


Orthorexia: Dirty secrets of the health-food junkies

Sadie only eats organic, Gwyneth macrobiotic and Uma won't touch anything that's not raw. Fussy eaters? Or could they be suffering from the latest food fad - orthorexia - asks Judith Woods

Dinner out with old friends. How relaxing to catch up over food - at least that was the theory. In practice, I found myself trapped in the Seventh Circle of macrobiotic, non-GM, low-sodium Hell. Friend number one, it transpires, has an allergy to wheat and dairy (middle-class euphemism for "I'm on a diet").

Friend number two apparently eats only superfoods, but it's very hard to find a decent restaurant that serves nothing but goji berries.

Friend three is entirely additive-free, and friends four and five are the sort of born-again organic evangelists who take turns to interrogate the waiter, as though he were some kind of hostile witness deliberately trying to conceal the exact provenance of the sea salt.

I was made to feel a complete pleb because I didn't go off-menu, ate everything I ordered and enjoyed it with what my companions felt was peasant-like gusto.

I was reminded of my pernickety social circle when Sadie Frost announced this week that she has a horror of eating what she called "dirty" food. At first I assumed she meant she was too precious to scoop spilled pasta out of the sink and pop it back in the saucepan.

But no, by "dirty" she meant food that wasn't organic. I think I actually screamed aloud in outrage as I read her princessy words.

Just when did we all get so hung up about food? As the arguments over food labelling rumble on, and the Government even considers paying fat people to lose weight, our society has become polarised as never before.

At one end of the spectrum we have rampant obesity, with whole sections of the population gorging themselves to an early grave. On the other, we have anorexics, starving themselves below size zero.

And then we have the orthorexics, a growing section of society whose fastidious preoccupation with the purity of their food has led to them being given their own eating disorder category: orthorexia nervosa.

"For orthorexics, a fixation with what they eat becomes an all-consuming lifestyle," says Dr Alex Yellowlees, medical director of the Priory Hospital in Glasgow.

"They are so concerned with foods that are 'good' and foods that are 'bad' that their diet suffers, their personal relationships come under pressure and they end up socially isolated, because the simple act of eating has become so stressful."

The term "orthorexic" comes from the Greek ortho, meaning straight and correct, and was first coined in 1996 by Dr Steven Bratman, the American author of Health Food Junkies: Orthorexia Nervosa.

Other eating disorders focus on quantity of food, but orthorexics are solely concerned with its quality. They obsess over salt content and E numbers, refuse to eat sugar and fat, and have such a hang-up about healthy eating that it restricts their diet and can, paradoxically, make them undernourished.

"We're certainly seeing more of this behaviour," says Dr Yellowlees. "Like other eating disorders, the issue at the heart of it all is obsession. Part of it is to do with the way we're constantly bombarded with media messages about what's healthy and what isn't. People don't quite know what to believe, so they lose a sense of perspective.

"They also take a certain enjoyment from refusing food in front of others, as a way of demonstrating their superior commitment to the purity of what they eat."

Although there are, as yet, no figures available for the number of orthorexia sufferers, anecdotal evidence suggests that equal numbers of men and women are affected. The growth of our complementary therapy culture is a key factor in the spread of orthorexia.

As we look beyond conventional medicine to keep us healthy, diet becomes more important - whether that involves cutting out foods that we believe harm us or placing great emphasis on foods that will heal us. Parents who mistakenly believe that all fat is bad, for example, will cause malnutrition in their children by removing it from their diet.

Celebrities are particularly prone to orthorexia. In the world of showbusiness, where body image is so important, it's no surprise to learn that Victoria Beckham breakfasts on algae and seaweed shakes and snacks on edamame beans or that Gwyneth Paltrow religiously adheres to a macrobiotic diet.

Natalie Portman and Uma Thurman mostly eat raw food and, perhaps most bizarrely of all, Reese Witherspoon tucks into jars of organic baby food, which she carries around in her handbag.

So far, so La-La Land. But it seems the rest of us - my friends included - are catching up fast. Anna Brook, 41, from London, only eats organic food, avoids gluten, wheat and dairy and admits she spends hours a day thinking about sourcing and preparing her next meal.

She brings her own box of salad to work every day, so she can be sure of exactly what she will be eating, and she rarely accepts dinner invitations because she gets stressed about what might be served.

"Food rules my life. I don't think I've drunk tap water for five years, and I only ever cook with filtered water," she says. "I have cupboards stacked with virtuous herbal teas that I drink but don't actually like and I will beat myself up for days if I weaken and eat biscuits or crisps, because I will imagine how my system is being poisoned."

Is her attitude the self-indulgence of a card-carrying member of the worried well - or a reflection of a deeper malaise in our over-anxious society?

According to Michael Pollan, the American author of In Defence of Food, a newly published rallying cry to return to a balanced diet, we've been bamboozled and frightened en masse by the food industry marketeers.

"We are all suffering from the effects of the pseudo-biochemistry that's peddled by food manufacturers," says Pollan.

"Nobody really knows what an antioxidant does, but we're sold this line that they are good for us, so instead of eating wholesome normal food, we spend our money on processed stuff that isn't nearly as good for us.

There's no evidence that worrying about your nutritional health improves it, even though more and more of us are doing it. We all need to get back to eating fresh, nutritious food. For me that corresponds to 'Don't eat anything your great-grandmother wouldn't recognise as food'."

Fine sentiments, but whereas 20 years ago so-called health-food freaks were marginalised, orthorexics today are a vocal bunch who opine openly about their faddy food convictions - and who strive to gain social kudos for their culinary ascetism.

"Orthorexics feel special and different because of their eating habits," says Deanne Jade, founder of the National Centre for Eating Disorders. "It's often a behaviour adopted by people without any strong sense of self.

They want to be noticed and to impress others by talking knowledgeably about food. It's all very narcissistic and is quite irritating to be around.

"Like any eating disorder, there are degrees to which people are affected, but this is becoming a widespread phenomenon. These days we're all encouraged to do a lot of navel-gazing and self-analysis, and orthorexia is very much a disease of the 21st century."

And what begins as an affectation can, in some cases, undoubtedly progress to an illness. So perhaps it's up to the rest of us to stand firm at the outset and deprive faddy eaters of all that attention before it escalates out of control.

So next time I'm seeing friends, I shall take the tough love option. I'll invite them to dinner and tell them it's my treat. Then I'll arrive half an hour early - and order for everyone.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2008/02/22/hfood122.xml

[Wifezilla]

Sometimes this overly fussing eating is just anorexia in disguise.

[girlgerms]

Jars of organic baby food in your handbag. That's a good snack idea!

[deb34]

Jars of organic baby food in your handbag

i've added jars of baby meat to pots of soup to add protein and body to the soup. All the fussy eaters i have given it to, have scarfed it down with nary a word of complaint :)

[Bat Spit]

"For orthorexics, a fixation with what they eat becomes an all-consuming lifestyle," says Dr Alex Yellowlees, medical director of the Priory Hospital in Glasgow.

"They are so concerned with foods that are 'good' and foods that are 'bad' that their diet suffers, their personal relationships come under pressure and they end up socially isolated, because the simple act of eating has become so stressful."

She brings her own box of salad to work every day, so she can be sure of exactly what she will be eating, and she rarely accepts dinner invitations because she gets stressed about what might be served.

Ok, I resemble both those remarks. But I don't think I have some new fangled eating disorder.

I remember back in my callow youth I knew people who were allergic to all manner of foods and couldn't eat anything normal. I referred to these people as 'people who don't eat food'. Karma being what it is, I've become one of those people. Not through any desire for superiority, but out of a desire to breathe freely with fewer prescription drugs and a strong desire not to vomit every day.

What does it say about our society that if people are eating weird, its automatically psychological rather than an actual recognition of physical benefits?

[ReginaW]

So now it's a mental health issue when you actually care about the quality of food you eat? oy!

[Nancy LC]

It's just a way for the undisciplined eaters to sneer at those of us with some discipline.

[Rachel1]

Well, I think there's a fine line between being concerned about the quality of your food and being obsessive about it. The quote from Anna Brooks, "Food rules my life ..." illustrates an unhealthy obsession, to me. She seems to be so concerned with the "purity" of her food that she doesn't even enjoy it.

If I get to the point where food is ruling my life and making me unhappy, I'm going to have to reconsider what I'm doing. Just my opinion. I'm aware, of course, that there are people with severe allergies, etc., who do have to be more concerned than most of us with what they eat.

As a low carber, I'm probably seen by many as a bit odd in my dietary choices, and I do think about my diet from time to time, but I think there's a difference between being careful and being "religious" about it.

Rachel

[tom sawyer]

The term eating "clean" drives me nuts. There are multiple meanings ascribed to this term depending on the favored diet, but I think it usually indicates a degree of snobbery and condescension. Eating "clean" implies the rest are eating "dirty".

That said, if someone ordered for me I would thank them and eat the items that fit my diet. I really haven't ever been pressured by others to have something not on plan though. In turn, I don't pressure them about their choices.

[HappyLC]

At one end of the spectrum we have rampant obesity, with whole sections of the population gorging themselves to an early grave.

She lost me right there.

I may have posted this before, but I think it's worth repeating.

Desmond Morris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Morris) attributes our modern fear of food to one of our survival instincts...a fear of being poisoned.

It is this same, ancient fear of poisoning that comes to the aid of the modern-day misery-makers when they tell us that we should not to eat certain foods because they will damage our health. We are irrationally keen to accept their views because they fit neatly into the corner of our brain reserved for protection from poisoning. Even as we defy them and enjoy another unit of salt, sugar, fat, red meat, or whatever is currently frowned upon, there is a tiny black cloud of worry floating in the blue sky of our pleasure. The anxiety-makers have scored again.

Here's the full article -

A little bit of what you fancy (http://www.sirc.org/articles/desmond.html)

[waywardsis]

Friend number one, it transpires, has an allergy to wheat and dairy (middle-class euphemism for "I'm on a diet").

She lost me right there. So to her, ppl who refuse certain foods due to allergy/intolerance are really just irritating, silly dieters. As a writer I realize we sometimes stretch issues to make a point (or to try and be funny, she just happened to fail here and instead attained "snide") but this is a tad ridiculous.

[costello22]

At one end of the spectrum we have rampant obesity, with whole sections of the population gorging themselves to an early grave.


She lost me right there.


I agree, HappyLC. That's where I stopped reading.

[rightnow]

Well aside from her obvious ignorance on some of the most major points of her subject matter -- eating -- there is one thing she didn't actually say, but which relates to this, that I really feel strongly about.

In 2000 I went on vacation for a week to a place where you actually stay there and they make your food. They had two food bars -- one with main and side dishes, and one with salad and desserts -- so people can eat what they want. The food was excellent.

So there I was seated with about 12 people at my table, most of whom were a normal size or, within 40 lbs of it anyway.

And we all sit down to eat, and I'm thinking, "What luscious food! What luxury to not have to cook myself! What a treat to have this time away!"

Unfortunately, that was apparently not what THEY were thinking.

First, one woman began a rationalization about why it was really ok that she was eating food X, because she had barely eaten that morning.

Another woman went into why she was eating food Y, but felt guilty about it, and knew she would have to only have a salad for dinner as a result.

Another woman then started talking about how she didn't eat Food Z, because she could never tell what kind of quality it was unless she made it herself.

This led to a gigantic discussion about the evil of calories, the evil of any food which wasn't classified as health food (apparently by the vegan society, though none of these people were vegans), the guilt and wrongness of eating badly, who needed to lose how much weight, etc.

So I am sitting there, really wanting to enjoy my food. But the table was nothing but this bitch-whine-gripe-rationalize FEST of people who apparently felt so friggin guilty about just EATING that they could not even shut the hell up and enjoy it already.

Worse, the part of this obsession which invariably led to all the things related to fat, of course made every neurotic woman at the table suddenly guilty about the extra .07 lbs she thought might be lurking on her inner thighs, and made ME, sitting there outweighing everybody by about 350 lbs, feel like in their world, if they were THAT guilty and disgusting and gluttonous because they ate GREEN BEANS WITH A LITTLE BACON BITS and might not fit into their size 3's tomorrow as a result -- what did that say about me?

You would think that out of common courtesy, if you are sitting next to a couple people overweight and another massively overweight, that you would not be obsessing vocally on issues like overweight if you wear a size 3. You would think. But, apparently this is not self-evident to anybody but me.

I was able to ignore most of it for awhile. I knew I was fat, I was used to people's reactions to me, I'd paid $1500 for 5 days that included yummy food and I was going to eat it by god, LOL.

But of course, the talk about food eventually led to talk about illness, and food related illness, and why all the saturated fat was killing us all, and yada yada yada. For godssake!

I moved to another table and ate alone. Swear to god I wanted to just whack my filled plate upside the head of every person at the table and yell WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!

You pay money to go somewhere and be FED, allegedly to have a good experience, but you're so friggin neurotic you can't even enjoy a meal! You have to totally obsess on everything bad and evil and unhealthy and scary and negative WHILE YOU EAT, as if you're NOT ALLOWED to enjoy it.

I seriously had a passing thought like, "I wonder if these women have problems with orgasm." It was just that neurotic. :lol: Probably they don't feel nearly as bad about having sex with anybody as they feel about having a bacon-bit in their green beans. I despise eating around people like this. I will literally leave a table or beg people to change the subject now, if that starts.

I feel like it's on a par with sex, and someone interrupting the moment of pleasure to go, "Do you love me? Are you sure? I'm afraid I'll get pregnant, that would be horrible wouldn't it? You've seen a doctor and you're healthy... right? Do you think my thighs are too fat?" Who on earth would want to spend time with someone with that kind of neurotic timing in bed? Well, who would want to have dinner with someone with the same kind of neurosis at the table?

If people feel that neurotic about food, why eat at all? Either don't eat it, if you don't want it, or eat it, own your decision and shut up!

PJ

[Locarb4mee]

i've added jars of baby meat to pots of soup to add protein and body to the soup. All the fussy eaters i have given it to, have scarfed it down with nary a word of complaint :)

What a cool idea! I never would have thought of that.

[OregonRose]

Well, who would want to have dinner with someone with the same kind of neurosis at the table?

If people feel that neurotic about food, why eat at all? Either don't eat it, if you don't want it, or eat it, own your decision and shut up!

PJ

<sound of crowd cheering>STANDING OVATION<sound of crowd cheering>

[Lisa N]

Well, I think there's a fine line between being concerned about the quality of your food and being obsessive about it. The quote from Anna Brooks, "Food rules my life ..." illustrates an unhealthy obsession, to me. She seems to be so concerned with the "purity" of her food that she doesn't even enjoy it.

I think it's a matter of degrees. There's caring about what you put in your body and wanting your food to be nutritious and healthy at one end of the spectrum and being absolutely obesessed with the 'purity' of your food to the point that it controls your life at the other end of the spectrum.
Sounds like another variant of OCD to me but instead of washing your hands 50 times a day or checking to make sure your doors are all locked every 5 mintues, you go to extremes regarding what you eat or don't eat.

[LessLiz]

Worse, the part of this obsession which invariably led to all the things related to fat, of course made every neurotic woman at the table suddenly guilty about the extra .07 lbs she thought might be lurking on her inner thighs, and made ME, sitting there outweighing everybody by about 350 lbs, feel like in their world, if they were THAT guilty and disgusting and gluttonous because they ate GREEN BEANS WITH A LITTLE BACON BITS and might not fit into their size 3's tomorrow as a result -- what did that say about me?In a similar circumstance my thought was "what did that say about what they think about me."

[rightnow]

That's what I meant. Worded it badly. I was on a ranting roll LOL.

[KvonM]

I moved to another table and ate alone. Swear to god I wanted to just whack my filled plate upside the head of every person at the table and yell WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!
i would have moved to another table AFTER whacking them all with my plate.

this is just way too prevalent in our society. we get so scared to death (and OF death, for that matter) by food because of everything we read... this is good for you, that's bad for you, eat this, don't eat that, now wait, reverse it, eat that because it turns out it's actually really good for you, but stay away from that because recent studies show that plus this means you'll die.

good food = pleasure, pleasure = absence of pain, absence of pain = you're not working hard enough to become the best YOU that you can be... so therefore, if we're going to improve ourselves, enjoying our food is not an option. misery loves company, but i sure as hell am not spending $1500 for it.


someone, i don't recall who, posted a link to an orthorexia site in my journal. it was certainly interesting, and it's nice to know that it doesn't appear i'm swapping one eating disorder for another. but while there are a lot of people who would probably consider most die-hard low-carbers orthorexics, there's a fine line between what we know has a detrimental effect on our bodies and what the media tells us is immoral to eat.


She lost me right there. So to her, ppl who refuse certain foods due to allergy/intolerance are really just irritating, silly dieters.
unfortunately, she's not the only one who's run into people who claim to be "allergic" to some kind of substance just as an excuse not to eat it and to force others into bending over backwards to make their food. it's as if "allergic" became the new black 10 years ago. it's one thing for some of us to be truly poisoned by wheat or soy, it's another to say "oh, i don't eat wheat because when i do, after my workouts i'm so tired and it makes me get wet on rainy days."

[Delphoene]

My gym has a free magazine, which featured an artical about "Orthorexia Nervosa." It recieved quite a few editorial letters in resposnse. Some people thanked the magazine for making them aware that they had a problem!
As a vegan (1993-95), I was pretty fussy. I did turn once turn down a Sunday lunch invite. I knew they'd be serving up a traditional roast, with all the trimmings and that I would be lucky to find something I could eat. I didn't want to ring up and talk to the hostess about my "special dietary concerns", as I had heard the way my own mother carried on, whenever we had a visitior who couldn't eat such-and-such.
I never really bought into the whole organic thing, largely because I was a full-time student and couldn't afford it. My brother's 1st wife has battled anoexia and Bulimia for most of her life. I believe that this took the guise of her various "food alergies": animal protein, chemicals such as salicilates and amines and lately, gluten. Her weight has fluctuated between healthy and dangerously thin. Unfortunately, she has passed the problem onto her 2 teenage daughters, who have both suffered from Bulimia.
As for these wacko celebrity diets, who knows what these people really eat? Boy George, who is a vegetarian for spiritual reasons, lost 5 1/2 stone,on what he now calls a "crazy macrobiotic diet" -only to regain the weight in record time. It must really suck, when a celebrity mum can't even take her kids to the beach, without some overpayed papparazo waiting to snap her celulite.
LC eaters aren't quite as restricted, as to where they can eat. Most restaraunts have a steak and salad on the menu. I have a tendency towards "carbo-phobia" myself. I'm just happy to have found a plan requires me to "carb up" 1-2 days a week.

[Rachel1]

I think one of the differences between a healthy concern for good nutrition - which can take different forms for different people - and orthorexia is that the orthorexic invests food and eating with a moral dimension: some foods are "pure," while others are "impure." Some foods make an orthorexic feel virtuous, other foods cause feelings of guilt. It's as though food, for some people, has become a kind of religion.

I am with a previous poster in disliking the phrase "eating clean," though I'm aware that it's probably meant as a kind of shorthand for "eat according to the rules of your chosen plan." But, to me, words like "clean" and "unclean" have moral connotations that belong to religion rather than to nutrition per se. (I'm not telling anyone not to use the phrase - I'm just conveying what it means to me.) Likewise, when people (especially newbies) say they feel guilty for falling off plan, I sometimes remind them that guilt is an emotion that's appropriate when we hurt someone else, but if we choose to eat a bag of chips, or whatever, that doesn't really have moral implications and shouldn't cause guilt. Annoyance with ourselves, maybe, but not guilt!

I'm also aware of the need to keep my own food preferences in their proper place and not get caught up in my tendency to obsess. It can indeed be a fine line!

Rachel

[Nancy LC]

To me "clean" means like a "clean shot". A way unlittered with undesirable objects in the way. It isn't the antonym of dirty in this context.

Clean has a lot of definitions, like being "clean of drugs". I guess one could say when you are eating clean, you're "clean of carbs".

Clean (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=5JJ&q=define%3A+clean&btnG=Search)

But there is also a feeling of goodness when I choose the best foods. It's totally illusionary but I feel a sort of pureness when my food choices align with what I am convinced is the proper diet. Like the breakfast I just had of cabbage and lamb. It makes me feel like I just cleaned my house from top to bottom. Virtuous and a little proud. Oh god, even I'm not immune from that Puritanical food thing... wait I think perhaps I am a bit. It tasted delicious with bacon grease, wine reduction sauce. I think my redemption is that it even though it was totally in line with my eating plan it was pretty danged hedonistic too. To be truly Puritanical I couldn't really enjoy the food I was having. Phew!

[Locarb4mee]

rightnow, I had a similar experience last weekend.

I was teaching a dollmaking class to a roomful of women.
We had sandwich platters, tossed salad and potato chips catered in.

I can't tell you how many comments I overheard about what these women put on their plates. Apologizing to no one in particular as they built their sandwiches or put a handful of chips on their plates. Or the virtuous ones who congratulated themselves out loud for *only* eating salad because they had a waffle for breakfast.

I'm slowly realizing that by and large, America has become a nation of eating disordered individuals. Me chiefest among them.

What an awful experience for you. I'd have moved away too. Your post is eloquent.

[rightnow]

Maybe one criteria for the degree of obsession someone has, is whether they simply go about their own way of eating, vs. whether they bore everybody in earshot with their guilt, their rationalization, their fearmongering, their food-phobias. If someone sits down to lunch and "just happens" to eat vegan, or lowcarb, or lowcal, so what? It's when people turn the entire event into an encounter group counseling session that it starts seeming like they've got a problem. I don't want to be anybody's food therapist. I just want to eat lunch. :lol:

PJ

[HappyLC]

Hi, rightnow! Your experience sounds very much like the one Laura Fraser describes in THIS ARTICLE (http://www.randomhouse.com/pantheon/authors/laurafraser/diet.html). I've been searching for it since I read your post.

(At least you didn't do the cooking! :lol: )

ETA: Warning: The article contains a crack about the "protein diet". ;)

[OregonRose]

What a great link, HappyLC. I thoroughly enjoyed Laura Fraser's essay, and I think she's got a good handle on what's going on with "orthorexic" eating. (Her menu sounded fabulous, and I would have eaten every single thing on it). I especially liked her observations about private vs. public dieting--that the diabetics she's known don't announce their dietary limitations to the table, whereas the public dieters are eager to declare their restrictions. I'm looking forward to reading her "Why I stopped being a vegetarian " essay.

What's interesting to me is that many (maybe most? all?) cultures have some traditional food taboos--pork, beef, certain kinds of food-mixing, whatever--but they are (and Fraser's essay makes a similar observation) community taboos, not individual. Perhaps the big community food taboo the West has developed in the last thirty years is fat--kind of weird, since it's a macronutrient and not a specific food--but we seem to have replaced community taboos with an ever-increasing variety of personal food taboos. Like community taboos, there's very clearly a morality/purity/righteousness dimension to the personal taboos. Lots of guilt, confessing, searching for absolution, etc. And pushy, intrusive proselytizing, too.

Interesting stuff.

[Legeon]

I especially liked her observations about private vs. public dieting--that the diabetics she's known don't announce their dietary limitations to the table, whereas the public dieters are eager to declare their restrictions.Get a bunch of "normal" women together and more often than not they'll start up a conversation to drum up sympathy and to vent over meaningless crap. When the crap suddenly has meaning its not safe or polite to vent about it, you'll look like a diseased wuss. That's my take on it.

[rightnow]

That's a good article! Thanks, I liked that.

She hits the point of it all. I would put it like this: that "specialty diets" should be between the dieter and the food. They should not be made the issue of everybody at the table. And using kvetching about diet to launch into issues of obesity and disease while everybody else is trying to eat an enjoyable meal is not only inappropriate, it's frankly disgusting.

The 'bacon and peanut butter for breakfast' crack about the 'protein' diet was kinda silly, but I won't argue. That is not recommended but there are probably low carbers who eat that LOL! One of my buddies eats pumpkin soup and chocolate frosting for breakfast -- but ya know, if it works for someone, more power to 'em! I can easily see that making it "everyone else's issue" is the real problem.

When I go to a family dinner like a holiday, there are literally like 40 dishes. Chances are I can eat dry chicken, a few black olives, and maybe an onion slice. That's it. But I don't make any issue of it. If I go (sometimes I don't because it's overwhelming), I just get a plate and put what I can eat on it, and go eat my food, and have a day with the family.

WHAT you eat is about your health. HOW you eat is about your personality.

PJ

[Calianna]

Maybe one criteria for the degree of obsession someone has, is whether they simply go about their own way of eating, vs. whether they bore everybody in earshot with their guilt, their rationalization, their fearmongering, their food-phobias. If someone sits down to lunch and "just happens" to eat vegan, or lowcarb, or lowcal, so what? It's when people turn the entire event into an encounter group counseling session that it starts seeming like they've got a problem. I don't want to be anybody's food therapist. I just want to eat lunch. :lol:

PJ

This and your other post said this so well.

This is what I was thinking -If there's something you can't eat (which there usually is, for those of us who are LC), then just don't eat it.

Just do it, you don't need to make a big production of it. It's the angst people display over the way they choose to eat, or the way they must eat, if that's the case, that makes it a problem.

I've known some very picky eaters in my life, and sure if they're in a restaurant, they'll tell the waitress "no onions" or whatever it is they can't/won't eat, but in someone's home? They either shove the onions aside, or just pass by the dish that has the onions in it. There's no need to get into a big discussion about all the reasons they hate onions, or how onions make their toenails itch and turn blue, right before getting fuzzy and falling off, and they really shouldn't eat them, but just this once, they're going to eat them just because you served them, and like the martyrs that they are, suffer the consequences later. *sigh*

[cartersg1]

A superiority complex because they refuse to eat certain kinds of food in public....PPPUUUHHHLLLLLEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZ. I should give those folks a swift kick in the outer electron shell!

Seriously, I stopped reading after the superiority issue. I really do dislike the "middle class euphenism" to allergies - I AM allergic to wheat and dairy. What of it? I don't have a superiority complex because of it. I travel with people who love food. And I feel sorry for people who are SSSOOOO persnickety about their food that it loses all enjoyment for them. Mom is like that; even now, with terminal cancer, she won't anything that's not low-fat. Protein does interfere with her Parkinson's meds so she doesn't eat a lot of it.

I know people won't "waste money" on vacations; it's only some memories and some trinkets and the money is gone, to be used doing something else. Such as? Some of these people won't "waste money" on a really superb meal either. It's so nice to have a great meal experience. It's soothing, calming, enjoyable. If you are going to complain and fuss over everything on the menu, don't travel with me. Cheers!

[Delphoene]

One of my buddies eats pumpkin soup and chocolate frosting for breakfast --
What, together? This friend wouldn't perchance be pregnant? ;)

[rightnow]

No, just creative in all aspects of life, LOL. It's lowcarb, too!

PJ

[tyritter]

Okay... while I do agree that making a fuss during the meal is annoying, I don't see the problem with asking a waiter to bring your individual plate without something or other, however gauche that is in (a pretty culturally homogeneous!) France. Eating at someone's house is tricky, and I think it's fair to warn a person if they solicit advice about what to serve. But I guess only if they solicit. Otherwise, just eat before you go and nibble while you're there. Then, of course, sometimes the host notices and is disappointed even if you don't vocalize WHY you're nibbling on odds and ends of what they're serving. Have not discovered a completely tactful way around that one.
Then again, this is coming from a person who keeps semi-kosher (doesn't eat seafood, doesn't mix meat with milk) AND does LC AND is soy-averse. Yeah, people like me are no fun to eat out with at certain restaurants. I sometimes avoid food-related outings if I know there will be no satisfying viable options. And yet I have somehow managed to retain non-dieting friends... maybe it's all the gift chocolate I pass on to them? :lol:

[rightnow]

And yet I have somehow managed to retain non-dieting friends... maybe it's all the gift chocolate I pass on to them? :lol:
Oh, so THAT's the secret. :lol:

One thing that this subject has made me realize is that everybody else has a way more interesting social life than I do. It's rare this issue is even an issue for me, and when it is, it's either a major family holiday feast or a restaurant, both of which have options.

PJ

[Kristine]

I don't doubt that orthorexia is a real problem for some people, but the tone of the article sucks. :thdown: "It's wrong to be obese. But don't try too hard, or else you're orthorexic. Just eat your 1/2 cup of pasta, your baked potato and your grilled chicken breast, and be quiet."

Yes, you should be gracious about your food choices. I used to have two vegan friends and I never even knew about their veganism until after I knew them for a long time, because they kept it to themselves. I strive to be the same way. But society needs to get it through it's thick collective skull that yes, Virginia, food can have a tremendous impact on medical conditions. It's none of anyone else's business if I have certain medical conditions and how I treat them, right? So it's none of anyone's business why I order wings with no sauce or a burger with no bun.

[kallyn]

Eating at someone's house is tricky, and I think it's fair to warn a person if they solicit advice about what to serve. But I guess only if they solicit. Otherwise, just eat before you go and nibble while you're there. Then, of course, sometimes the host notices and is disappointed even if you don't vocalize WHY you're nibbling on odds and ends of what they're serving. Have not discovered a completely tactful way around that one.

I've never understood why a host WOULDN'T solicit advice from someone who is coming over to their house for food. I always check with people before they come over and ask if there is anything they particularly dislike or are allergic to or if they are vegetarian or anything like that. It seems from reading all the food forums I do, though, that lots of hosts do not do this. Boggles my mind.

[LessLiz]

I don't doubt that orthorexia is a real problem for some people, but the tone of the article sucks. "It's wrong to be obese. But don't try too hard, or else you're orthorexic. Just eat your 1/2 cup of pasta, your baked potato and your grilled chicken breast, and be quiet." I didn't find that to be the tone of the article at all.

[rightnow]

I could see definitely a rather severe lack of connection to a few basics. I do think people who are allergic to something aren't being uptight, they're just being sane, so don't take it personally.

[Delphoene]

I mentioned Boy George before. Here is a link to an artical of his, entitled, "Why We All Make A Meal Of Dining Out"
http://cyberchameleon.50megs.com/september2001.htm
Word of warning, it is sexually frank, with a little vegetarian self-righteousness thrown in, but still very funny!

[rightnow]

I seriously never thought I would hear of that guy again. . .

[mermaiden9]

:lol: I seriously hoped I would never hear of that guy again!

[HappyLC]

I've never understood why a host WOULDN'T solicit advice from someone who is coming over to their house for food. I always check with people before they come over and ask if there is anything they particularly dislike or are allergic to or if they are vegetarian or anything like that. It seems from reading all the food forums I do, though, that lots of hosts do not do this. Boggles my mind.

Not only do they not do this, they may very well lie about it! Check out this advice column from Chow.com -Mum's the Velveeta (http://www.chow.com/stories/10896)

A reader asks if she was wrong to using breading in a dish to be served to a lowcarb dieter, after she had told him she would respect his dietary wishes. The response says, in part,

...Nor should you feel guilty about compromising your friend’s South Beach Diet, even though you explicitly promised not to do so. At the last moment, you had to choose between keeping your promise and a properly emulsified and balanced sauce. You quite rightly chose the latter.

This may sound underhanded, but letting your friend or family member unwittingly consume a little bread hardly constitutes a major betrayal.


Most of the comments on the article are disapproving (some quite horrified!), and a few of them bring up the subject being discussed here.

[keywstdame]

I think it all comes down to manners. When I accept an invitation, it's because I like that person and want to spend an evening in their company. I know the food may be a mine field but one meal will not bring the world crashing down on my head. I would not dream of asking my host/hostess what they are going to serve. Even things that I can have can be a problem but you make do. One hostess served lamb. I HATE lamb but I took a small portion, cut it up in small pieces and moved it around on my plate. I took a couple of bites. It didn't kill me and I did not make my friend feel bad. Besides if the company and the conversation is good no one will notice I left most of the lamb on my plate. Maybe if a persons dietary regime is so complicated - they shouldn't accept dinner invitations. To show you what a really old relic I am, I still send a note around the next day thanking my hostess for having me and for the good company and food.

[nocarbkat]

I always considered it to be a problem of guilt. We have so much guilt about the choices of our lives and we are so blasted daily by the media and what-not about what to eat and what not to eat that if we enjoy anything some how we should be guilty over it. In American culture in particular it's produce, produce, produce. To the point that some folks have a hard time relaxing for a day, enjoying, really, truely enjoying reading a book for an afternoon with out guilt. So, it natrually follows that if you enjoy your food, partake in the "pleasures of the table" there will be guilt.

Its crazy to me, really. I refuse to live with that amount of feeling "less than" because I like beef, or don't buy organic.

[Lisa N]

I've never understood why a host WOULDN'T solicit advice from someone who is coming over to their house for food. I always check with people before they come over and ask if there is anything they particularly dislike or are allergic to or if they are vegetarian or anything like that. It seems from reading all the food forums I do, though, that lots of hosts do not do this. Boggles my mind.

Ditto here, kallyn. If I'm inviting someone over to my house for a meal, I want to serve them food that they a) actually like and b) won't make them sick or kill them.
I learned this lesson many years ago when I had some friends over for dinner and served a dish with lemon in it. Unfortunately, I was unaware that one of my guests was severely allergic to lemon and they ate some of my dish before realizing what was in it and then proceeded to the nearest emergency room when their throat started to swell shut. I was one horrified hostess, I can tell you, and ever since then I have always asked, "Is there anything you can't eat or really dislike?" when issuing a dinner invite. :idea:

[Bat Spit]

Maybe if a persons dietary regime is so complicated - they shouldn't accept dinner invitations.

I absolutely agree.

I have one small group of friends that I'll accept invitations from. They all have their own food allergies and are willing to go the extra mile and a half to feed me.

Otherwise, I invite people here, or got to potlucks and bring my own dish.

[Nancy LC]

Maybe if a persons dietary regime is so complicated - they shouldn't accept dinner invitations.
I think people inviting others over should be at least somewhat aware that there are people in the world with allergies and intolerances and sometimes dinner invitations can be fraught with anxiety for the recipient. Do you accept and risk potential serious health consequences? Do you try to explain your issue? Do you accept and bring your own food? Anything you try to do is awkward and difficult.

Fortunately my few friends I do eat over with are extremely understanding. I also realize I can't eat everything they serve and that is fine with me.

[rightnow]

I don't think I have any friends or family who would not WANT to feed me what I like, never mind what I might NEED for potential health reasons. I'd be pretty concerned about the actual friendship of anybody who (a) didn't care, let alone (b) who LIED to me (as noted in a post above)! Holy cats!

My stepmother is so allergic to shellfish that a tiny bit of fish sauce could potentially kill her. Now imagine someone using it, after being told she "couldn't eat" it, and having her die. Aside from being horrible, I'd sue for homicide.

I'm surprised Lisa that your friends didn't mention the lemon, since that is such a common ingredient. Maybe after that experience, they will LOL.

PJ

[Mrs. Skip]

Rightnow, this is in response to your earlier post about your trip where you were served delicious food for five days...(I just can't get the quotes to work for some reason!) Anyway, I wanted to share my thoughts... I sometimes think that people (usually women) are just looking for validation and "permission" that it's okay to eat and enjoy food. I wonder what would have happened if you had said what you thought out loud, as in, we've all paid to enjoy this food, so let's have fun? I would think that at least some of the women would have felt relieved, and then gone on to enjoy their food.

Part of the survival instinct we all share is the need to belong...and if that requires denying yourself food in order to be a member of the "tribe", most people find it worth it. Our brains our hard-wired to belong, since life without a group to belong to usually meant death.

[rightnow]

Hmmn. That's a very good point Mrs. Skip. Of course that does return it to the "being someone's food therapist", but perhaps a small amount of that in kindness, could help the situation enough to be worth the effort. ;-)

PJ

[Bat Spit]

don't think I have any friends or family who would not WANT to feed me what I like, never mind what I might NEED for potential health reasons.

Its not that my friends don't want to feed me what is safe, its just that soy is sooooo pervasive, they don't trust themselves to get it right. Its a damnable amount of work besides.


I can't believe the author of that article. Yes, fine, completely ignore the solicited request of someone who is an invited guest in your house in favor of *better sauce consistency*. Because there aren't any other ways to thicken a sauce!

[KvonM]

ok... i loved the laura fraser essay and the boy george article was interesting (i've always equated how someone dances with how someone makes love, but i can see how his oral correlation makes more sense for him *grin*), but that "mum's the velveeta" thing pissed me off.

That said, I don’t think it’s wrong to hide ingredients in dishes, provided you’re not violating a guest’s religious or ethical beliefs or triggering potentially life-threatening allergies.

*snip*

Nor should you feel guilty about compromising your friend’s South Beach Diet, even though you explicitly promised not to do so.
this is so offensive to me on so many levels. for all the host knew, her guest was on south beach because it aligned with medical needs, such as a true physical intolerance to grains. by putting bread crumbs in the salsa and not telling them, by compromising their eating plan, that host may very well have poisoned that guest. it's as if the host simply said "yeah i knew you specified no bread, but how MY salsa turned out was far more important to me than your health and well-being."

i don't know if anyone else read the comments associated with that advice column, but everyone seems to be on the same page as far as how horrible that advice was.

this is an extreme example, but it's a perfect demonstration of how "hidden" ingredients can ruin someone's life. i used to work at a recruiting firm that hired mid-level professionals (engineers, software designers, scientists, etc.). one woman came in to interview for a VERY high-paying job ($50/hr). she had all the expertise needed, the company liked her, everything was good. this particular company insisted that all employees, temporary or otherwise, go through a background check and drug screen... no big deal with this candidate, she wasn't worried at all. she went in for her drug screen on monday. on wednesday, i get the results back. she's tested positive for marijuana. i immediately called my contact to say "what the hell do we do? this is NOT a woman who's a pot smoker, and there's got to be some kind of explanation for it." the screening company told me that out of all the tests they do, there are only 2 drugs for which no other substance will trigger a positive result... so while eating a poppyseed bagel will indeed register a positive for having ingested opiates, or some medications will show as barbituates or other drugs, marijuana and cocaine are the only ones that show individualized positives.

my contact had to call the company... she had no choice. the company was under legal obligation to rescind her job offer... they had no choice. when i talked to the candidate, she was livid. as it turned out, she and her husband had been at a friend's potluck pool party. someone in the group had brought "special" brownies but didn't tell anyone. it wasn't until the candidate asked the host and the host asked the other guest that the truth came out... apparently the guest had mentioned bringing them, the host said no, and the guest did it anyway.

that "secret" ingredient cost this candidate her job, and could have cost her her life as well.

so as a host, it is imperative to me that i inform all my eaters of what's in the food. i have a moral and legal obligation to take people's food preferences into account when i'm cooking. i'm not offended when someone quietly puts something aside, or if it's in a salad option i will set the offending ingredient aside so that the eaters can add it as they wish.

when i'm eating at someone else's house or everyone chooses a restaurant, i keep my preferences quiet. i know that i'm smart enough to tailor my meal to my own eating choices. i don't need to be the center of attention just because of what i eat or don't eat, and i expect the same consideration from everyone else.

[rightnow]

If I lost a 100K job because of some bozo deliberately tricking me with food I might be seriously inclined to do something illegal just to purge that rage...

[mermaiden9]

I'd be thinking about taking legal action.
Judge Judy perhaps

[KvonM]

i suggested the same to the candidate because i felt so bad for her... but at that point, how do you take legal action against someone else when by doing so, you have to admit to felony activities and run the risk of having legal action taken against you?

[Lisa N]

I'm surprised Lisa that your friends didn't mention the lemon, since that is such a common ingredient. Maybe after that experience, they will LOL.

PJ

Believe me, they do. While it was really scary and horrifying at the time, we're still best friends and we laugh about it now.
Something they found out not long ago was that it's not actually the lemon that they are allergic to but one of the pesticides that is commonly used on lemons as they grow; if the lemons are washed well, they don't have a problem. Who knew?

[Bat Spit]

Something they found out not long ago was that it's not actually the lemon that they are allergic to but one of the pesticides that is commonly used on lemons as they grow; if the lemons are washed well, they don't have a problem.

Ok, THAT has got to be really hard to sort for. What a nightmare. Every meal not eaten at home is potentially life threatening.

I'd have a serious complex!

I hope she has an epipen.

[oakdryad]

I'm with kallyn and Lisa N. I can't imagine NOT asking my guests about food allergies, preferences, etc. and then making sure that I prepare something that they can eat.

Or, in the case of potlucks, which are popular in my circle of friends, making something that the majority of people CAN eat, and specifying ingredients so that anyone who may have a problem will know to avoid that dish.