Very high triglycerides

[LUZAMAR]

Hi everybody,

This is my first post, although I have been reading whenever I have the chance to learn as possible from your experience.
I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes four months ago (not so sure about that yet since I'm rather lean).
initially I went to the dr. because some neuropathy signs started to appear in my feet. My fasting blood glucose when diagosed was 250 and started regular ADA aproved diet.
My cholesterol was above 1000 and my triglycerides were above 5000. by using immediately vytorin, Cholesterol and triglycerides my levels went down to normal just one month after diagnosis, however, my FBG was 156 in that initial blood work.
On late december I found out about dr. bernstein diet and I instantly decided that was the way to go.
i've been low carbing rigorously since starting this year and wanted to try without vytorin to see blood work results. Now Ive got those results and my LDL cholesterol level is 224 and my triglycerides are 1178 mg/dl.
i don't have Hb A1C for initial diagnosis but after first month with metformin and diet resulted in 8.6, one month later was 7.2 and now after one month and a half later cutting on carbs m Hb A1C is 5.3 and FBG was 96.
At this point I'm not gonna leave low carbing however, i'm no sure why my triglycerides are so high (I expected oherwise).
Tomorrow I will visit my doctor and I don't think he's gonna like the fact that I eat a lot of meat and not grains and cereals as he told me.
Any suggestion on this matter will be greatly appreciated.

[Nancy LC]

I'd suggest reading this doctor's blog. He talks about natural ways to lower triglycerides. Of course, the best way is adopting a low carb diet. But other things might help like Fish oil. High triglycerides are the result of high blood glucose and eating lots of carbohydrates. It makes sense this goes along with diabetes. Grains and cereal are the worst possible things for you to eat. Search on "wheat" in this doctor's blog too.

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com

Search on triglycerides.

Oh, and it sounds like you've reduced your triglycerides by a huge amount. Give it more time, maybe even be more diligent with the carbs and see if it comes down more. Expect it to takes several months, not weeks.

[LUZAMAR]

Thanks for the Link, very interesting reading.
Since I,m already having less than 50 carbs a day for one month and a half and my HbA1C is 5.3, I was expecting better results.
Also , the fact that simvastatin brought my levels from 5000 to normal in just one month made me think that Low carbing would have a faster result.
I'll give fish oil a try and stick to low carbs to see if things get better in that regard.

[skeeweeaka]

Good luck to you...I need to have my blood drawn and levels tested....

[Nancy LC]

Give it at least 3 months. I think it takes awhile for triglycerides to come down. Also eating wheat seems to be linked in particular to high triglycerides. You might want to make sure you're avoiding it, if you weren't before.

This newsletter discusses that: http://thepaleodiet.com/newsletter/newsletters/PDNewsVol4No1.pdf

[Nancy LC]

Dr. Davis just posted something about high triglycerides and Vit. D3.
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/actos-avandia-and-vitamin-d.html

Vitamin D in my experience in the Track Your Plaque approach:

--Raises HDL--far more than the TZD's ever did.

--Reduces small LDL

--Reduces triglycerides

--Reduces c-reactive protein

--Reduces blood pressure

--Reduces blood sugar

[LUZAMAR]

Well, maybe 5 to 10 carbs daily were coming from low carb tortillas and they indeed have whole wheat flour.
I think I have the answer I was looking for.
Thank you very much Nancy.

[M Levac]

See this link for a bit more info on trigs, cholesterol and other effects of insulin:

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articles/article149.html

Quote from the article:

"What else does insulin do? Insulin mediates blood lipids. That patient who had a triglyceride of 2200, one of the easiest things we can do is lower triglyceride levels. It is so simple. There was just an article in J.A.M.A. an article and they were saying that the medical profession doesn't know how to reduce triglycerides dietarily, that drugs still need to be used. It is so ridiculous because you will find that it is the easiest thing to do. They come tumbling down. There is almost a direct correlation between triglyceride levels and insulin levels. In some people more than others. The gentleman who had a triglyceride level of 2200 while on all the drugs only had an insulin level of 14.7. That is only slightly elevated, but it doesn't take much in some people, all we had to do was get his insulin level down to 8 initially and then it went down to six and that got his triglycerides down to under 200."


"The way you control blood lipids is by controlling insulin. We won't go into a lot of detail, but we now know that LDL cholesterol comes in several fractions, and it is the small, dense LDL that plays the largest role in initiating plaque. It's the most oxidizable. It is the most able to actually fit through the small cracks in the endothelium. And that's the one that insulin actually raises the most. When I say insulin, I should say insulin resistance. It is insulin resistance that is causing this."

[Enomarb]

hi Luzamar-
please take a few minutes to google vytorin. I don't know if you are aware that the first report came out weeks ago, and it is worth reading about. There was a big article in Business Week.
Good luck- and keep up the LC.
You might also want to read Good Calories/Bad Calories by Gary Taubes after finishing Dr. Bernstein's books.
E

[Lisa N]

Some other things that can raise triglycerides are transfats (partially hydrogenated oils), alcohol and fructose.

[eddiemcm]

"Some other things that can raise triglycerides are transfats (partially hydrogenated oils), alcohol and fructose."
Lisa
You look sooo hot.Wow!!
Eddie

[KiaKaha]

You probably arent having any fruit but drinking a lot of fruit juice is often responsible for huge triglyceride readings. I had this (3 or 4000 from memory) but when I cut them down and then finally LC'd - they came within upper normal limits fairly quickly.

[Lottadata]

That is a very abnormal triglyceride level for someone eating what you are eating.

Are you sure it wasn't lab error?

Was it fasting or not fasting? Not fasting levels can be very high. This test is supposed to be done fasting.

Triglycerides usually drop like a stone when a person eats low carb, especially if they are taking metformin.

[LUZAMAR]

The test was performed after 10 hours fasting, and to be honest I wouldn't know about a lab error. I'm gonna ask for another blood work in a month, to see if fish oil helps and also to rule out a lab mistake.
I was convincing everyone I know that low carb was right, especially for diabetics, now they are thinking my new diet is to blame for high triglycerides. I think there is a hidden factor I'm not accouning for, and eventually I'll get to it.

[M Levac]

The test was performed after 10 hours fasting, and to be honest I wouldn't know about a lab error. I'm gonna ask for another blood work in a month, to see if fish oil helps and also to rule out a lab mistake.
I was convincing everyone I know that low carb was right, especially for diabetics, now they are thinking my new diet is to blame for high triglycerides. I think there is a hidden factor I'm not accouning for, and eventually I'll get to it.

You start with trigs of 5000. End up with trigs of 1100. Low carb is blamed for high trigs?!? It should be the other way around. High carbs should be blamed for high trigs since once you took them out, trigs went tumbling down. If you want to lower trigs even more, cut out all carbs and eat more fat especially saturated fat.

[Wifezilla]

Yeah...what martin said! It took years for your levels to get totally messed up. Low carb IS fixing it, but give it some time!

[Squarecube]

I think there is a hidden factor I'm not accouning for, and eventually I'll get to it.

It takes a few months on this way of eating to sort out lipid levels.

[LUZAMAR]

Yeah I know LC diet is right,
I'll just have to wait a little bit more to get better results and convince everybody else with numbers, because unfortunately, this diet is very outside from mainstream here.

[Lottadata]

Hi everybody,

Tomorrow I will visit my doctor and I don't think he's gonna like the fact that I eat a lot of meat and not grains and cereals as he told me.
Any suggestion on this matter will be greatly appreciated.

If your doctor doesn't know that grains RAISE triglycerides (as do all carbs) dump him.

Are you losing weight?

My doctor told me not to worry about my lipids if I was losing a lot of weight as the fats in the blood were on their way out.

The usual advice is to wait 6 months before panicking about cholesterol.

[LUZAMAR]

If your doctor doesn't know that grains RAISE triglycerides (as do all carbs) dump him.

Are you losing weight?

My doctor told me not to worry about my lipids if I was losing a lot of weight as the fats in the blood were on their way out.

The usual advice is to wait 6 months before panicking about cholesterol.

I'm not losing a lot of weight, maybe two or three pounds in the last two months, I haven't had much trouble with my weigth, just some concern of losing more and get too thin.
By the way, just returned from a visit to the doctor.
He prescribed Crestor (Rosuvastatin) 20 mg twice a day as he's more concerned with high cholesterol, previously, Vytorin (Simvastatin) did a good job of lowering both Cholesterol and tryglicerides.
i'm thinking that maybe I should take the pills three or four months until my body is fully adapted to the low carb diet.
Does that sound like a good idea?

[Wifezilla]

Check out this thread and then decide...

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/main-lowcarb-lobby/518070-truth-about-cholesterol-dr-rosedale.html

[Songwriter]

Someone on this forum said that weight loss can cause tri's to go up.

EDIT: After posting, I see others have mentioned this.

[Nancy LC]

i'm thinking that maybe I should take the pills three or four months until my body is fully adapted to the low carb diet.
Does that sound like a good idea?
They're just treating a number, not a disease. If you haven't had a heart attack then these drugs do nothing for you other than lower some numbers that have no real meaning. Go to the cholesterol forum and read some of the postings there. It might help put things into a more skeptical perspective for you.

[camaromom]

Just as an FYI, I too have insanely high triglycerides over 3000 at one point. They are now < 150, but it has taken a long time to get them there. I think that some people here expect triglycerides to drop like a stone with LC, and for many they do. But. . . I think when you start out with numbers that high it takes time. I've been doing lc for almost 4 years and am just now getting near normal numbers. Hang in there. Oh, and my endocrinologist is the dr who told me to lc.

[Lottadata]

If you take Crestor you must get your liver enzymes tested frequently. It's the statin that causes the most side effects.

Vytorin dropped cholesterol but people taking it grew MORE plaque on their arteries than those who did not. The drug companies are spinning this story for all they are worth but the fact is that there is NO evidence that lowering cholesterol with any drug, and particularly statins prevents heart attacks in any group except MEN under 56 who have ALREADY had heart attacks. That appears to be because Statins are also antiinflammatory. People with serious heart disease have inflamed arteries. But it has NOTHING to do with cholesterol.

Doctors are so completely under the thumb of the drug companies as far as statins go that it is sickening. None of the ones I have seen know anything about thee actual data about statins and heart disease or, for that matter, what the Framingham data found.

HEre's a page I put together that cites some of the relevant cholesterol research:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/15945839.php
A1c and Post-Meal Blood Sugar Predict Heart Attack Risk (NOT Cholesterol)

[LUZAMAR]

Thanks everybody for your input.
I have a strong family history involving heart attacks. My father and three of his brothers died from heart attacks, as old as fifty to sixty years old.
At least six of my cousins from the same family tree have had mild heart attacks at age 43 to 48 (none of them died).
I'm 40, with diabetes, and high triglycerides and I'm a little bit restless on this situation.
After reading all the links that I received, it becomes clear that I wouldn't wanna reduce cholesterol with statins but triglycerides remain a stong warning signal, either if they are indeed damaging in high quantities or if they indicate underlying hidden causes.
I'ts also clear that low carbing is the most important factor to improve these numbers.
Anyhow, I've read in some sites that Niacin and Fibrates lower triglycerides, is the the same case for them than for statins?, they're no useful for overall health?

[Wifezilla]

If I were in your shoes (and I kind of AM...I had 2 uncles drop dead of heart attacks in their 40's...and I am 44) I would take a vitamin D3 supplement...which...by the way...I already am.

Dr. Mike explains why that is a good idea...
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/statins-and-vitamin-d/

I also take Fish Oil.

[Nancy LC]

Anyhow, I've read in some sites that Niacin and Fibrates lower triglycerides, is the the same case for them than for statins?, they're no useful for overall health?

Have you checked out http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com? This doctor uses diet and supplements and heart scans to reverse heart disease. He does use niacin but he has a lot of caveats you should be aware of. You might want to read through his archives on the blog and perhaps even join the Track Your Plaque program and get a heart scan done.

[eddiemcm]

lowering triglycerides:
two daily 450 mg pills of Jarrow Pantethine will significantly lower triglycerides in a couple of
months-works better than any prescription.
Eddie

[Rose1942]

You say that you were first eating the regular ADA approved diet (which is hopelessly bad) - I am assuming that your doctor told you to do this. And then you say that he is probably not going to be happy that you are not eating all the cereals and grains that he told you to. That's a red flag right there that this doctor is not going to support you in your low carb lifestyle.

I know, I am having the same trouble myself. I am showing dramatic improvement in my blood sugar since starting low carb 2 months ago - it is very stable at 80 to 110 (postprandial!) now as long as I don't cheat - and believe me, I don't cheat often. When I do it is something nutritious like 1/2 a grapefruit, or a 6 carb tortilla which doesn't raise my suger at all (go figure) so I can have a real 'sandwich' now and then. And my doctor does not like that I eat so many eggs, full fat yogurts, cheeses, meats etc. And he wants to put me on Lipitor for borderline high LDL - which I strongly object to as well, at least for now. He is even basing that decision on a NON fasting test! Good grief. He's all for the drugs, that guy, not for the work that a patient can do to help themselves.

So ..... we are playing this little game, but I am already doctor shopping and maybe this is what you need to think about too. We need support for this, not lectures about how bad we are eating - because we are NOT eating bad, we are eating good! They are wrong, we are right!

I second the above suggestion that you read Gary Taubes' book 'Good Calories, Bad Calories'. It is a perfect companion to Dr. Bernsteins' book and each validates the other. These guys have got it going ON! Check out also the doctors Eades, and Mary Enig - there are a lot of good docs out there, Google to your heart's content and you will find them. Good luck to you:)

[2bthinner!]

When I do it is something nutritious like 1/2 a grapefruit, or a 6 carb tortilla which doesn't raise my suger at all (go figure)The reason for this, is that fructose is digested by the liver. It must be processed into glucose before your muscles can use it. Unless it's a really sweet fruit, such as mango or grapes, or you eat three or four pieces of fruit, it won't raise your insulin. I've read this on a few blogs, but I'm still searching for an "official" word on it. The 6 carb tortilla, all I can figure is it's low glycemic enough to fly under the radar, and you don't react too strongly to wheat. :thup:

[Lottadata]

Thanks everybody for your input.
I have a strong family history involving heart attacks. My father and three of his brothers died from heart attacks, as old as fifty to sixty years old.
At least six of my cousins from the same family tree have had mild heart attacks at age 43 to 48 (none of them died).

I am so sorry your family has had such a tragic health history. I can see why you'd be concerned. But it is blood sugars that map closely to the probability of having a heart attack, starting in the range most doctors call "prediabetic."
I've got several uncles who died of those heart attacks in the 50s, too. My dad ate low carb for over 60 years and lived to be 100.

I've documented the research on this topic on this page:
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/15945839.php

If you can get your post-meal blood sugars into the truly normal range (under 120 at 1 hour) you should start seeing improvements.

But there is no reason you can't take the drugs until your lipids start coming down on their own. Many people do. Give yourself a drug holiday in six months and get your levels checked then. Ditto in a year.

[Nancy LC]

The reason for this, is that fructose is digested by the liver.
Fructose is strongly linked to raising triglycerides though.