Suntanning Question

[007]

I just got the PP book and I jumped right to the chapter on suntanning. Does anyone know if the UV exposure recommendation applies to indoor tanning booths? Or, does it have to be real sunlight?

I'm thinking about trying indoor tanning at a VERY gradual rate, like maybe only 5 minutes a day, then GRADUALLY adjusting slightly up until I have a moderate tan. Then, maybe continuing indefinitely. (If it is safe)

The advice in the book about outdoor tanning sounds very sensible to me. I have always been skeptical of SPF products. Especially when I see people slathering themselves at the swimming pool when they are INTENTIONALLY trying to get a tan. Seems counter-productive.

Has anyone tried the book's advice and/or booths?

[redness]

what does it say about suntanning?
im not on PP but just curious...

[ElleH]

I remember reading somewhere on Dr Eades blog that the tanning beds are not beneficial b/c they don't provide the right spectrum of UV light or something like that, and not to bother with them. He said natural sunlight is the best.

Unfortunately, it was in the comments section where he answered someone, and not in his actual blog, so a search didn't bring up anything. But I definitely remember reading it.

[LessLiz]

It depends on the type of bulbs in the bed. There are newer bulbs out there designed to stimulate Vitamin D production.

[lisaz8605]

Very interesting q&a - thanks for bringing it up Mr. Bond! ;) Seriously, I have always liked 'sun therapy' despite being so very fair (not a "tanner"). I have had good days (felt sunkissed with extra freckles and a glow) and bad ones (major burns) and do use SPF for certain situations. But I always felt that the better point was to be careful with my TIME out in the sun...exactly the point made in PP. 007, your question also makes me wonder about those sunlamps they have for season affective disorder...something to consider anyhow!

[MamaSara6]

As I recall from PPLP, he said that most beds provide UVB rays, the dangerous kind. As someone else said, now there are places that are using full spectrum bulbs which are better. Make sure you know what kind they have.

I've always thought sunscreen was ridiculous. My kids build up a great base tan in their a.m. swim practices, so we never use sunscreen unless we're going to be out at the pool at noon, which I avoid anyway. If we're going to the pool at 3, we don't use anything.

Even if the sun isn't causing cancer, isn't it still causing wrinkles??

[ruthla]

I guess the real question isn't "is a tanning bed as good as natural sunlight" but rather "is a tanning bed a good enough substitute to be worth the time and money during the wintertime?" I don't know the answer to that, as I've never had any desire to use a tanning bed so I've never researched it.

As for the real sun, I dress my kids and myself in clothes that protect most of our bodies from the sun. Even for the pool they wear SPF protective clothing that protects their backs and shoulders. I dont' use anything on hands, legs, or lower arms. When we're going to get much more sun exposure than our bodies are used to, I use some zinc oxide cream (sold as diaper rash ointment) as a sunscreen- it doesnt' do anything wacky chemically in sunlight, it physically deflects the rays, like clothing does- but I put it on thin enough so that it doesn't look like they're wearing cream cheese on their ears. ;) I only cover body parts that are REALLY exposed to the sun and likely to burn- ears, back of neck (if hair or a hat won't cover it), sometimes the nose and cheeks, and sometimes the tops of my feed if I'm wearing sandals and I don't have a base tan because I'd been wearing shoes with socks.

[Zuleikaa]

February Is Vitamin D Deficiency Month
01/28/2008
In recent years, several groups have launched smear campaigns against the sun and tanning, blurring the line between overexposure—a very real threat to our heath—and any exposure at all. The sunscreen industry constantly warns the public to “cover up” before venturing outside. Store shelves are flooded with products promising increasingly higher sun protection factors (SPFs), and the latest children’s swim trunks cover more skin than a nun’s habit.

As a result, the Centers for Disease Control estimates that more than 180 million Americans—60 percent of the population—are not getting enough vitamin D.

The National Institutes of Health lists sunlight as “the most important source of vitamin D.” Our bodies produce the aptly named “sunshine vitamin” when ultraviolet (UV) rays reach our skin. In order to produce the amount that most experts now agree is the minimum daily requirement (about 1,000 to 2,000 international units), some individuals would need to bare it all for about 20 minutes in the sunshine every day. Most of the United States doesn’t even come close.

Without vitamin D, our bodies cannot build strong bones or maintain a healthy immune system. New research indicates that the sunshine vitamin plays a vital role in the prevention of many deadly illnesses, including multiple sclerosis, tuberculosis, schizophrenia and heart disease. Health officials estimate that as many as 47,000 cancer deaths could be prevented each year in the United States if adequate vitamin D levels were attained.

Vitamin D deficiency is contributing to hundreds of thousands of cases of chronic and terminal diseases. That means the sunlight myths perpetuated by the skin care industry aren’t only misleading—they’re deadly.

The public is largely unaware that spending five to seven minutes in a tanning bed a few times a week provides people with the necessary amount of vitamin D to stay healthy. In fact, most people aren’t even aware that they could be at risk of vitamin D deficiency.

That’s why the Indoor Tanning Association has declared February Vitamin D Deficiency Month and is urging salons across the country to celebrate by telling customers about the importance of getting enough vitamin D and encouraging them to share the information with friends and family. While current customers enjoy tanning because it makes them look and feel good, there is a potential market you can tap into simply by letting people know that your tanning salon is an optimal place to get their much-needed vitamin D. It also gives your current customers another good reason to keep coming back!

http://www.lookingfit.com/hotnews/81h289416.html

[ElleH]

It depends on the type of bulbs in the bed. There are newer bulbs out there designed to stimulate Vitamin D production.

That's good to know. Do you just ask at the salon, or what? Would the person at the desk even know?

[ElleH]

Even if the sun isn't causing cancer, isn't it still causing wrinkles??

I don't know, but I can tell you this, Sara. I didn't use much sunscreen when I was a teenager (I'm from the era of tanning with baby oil or Hawaiian Tropic No Sunscreen) and the only parts of my skin that are not "damaged" and looking pretty bad are the parts that have NEVER SEEN THE SUN, if you know what I mean, my BUTT AND MY BREASTS. My face is still in really good shape, b/c in my "circle" we covered our faces for tanning and just used darker makeup in summer. But my forearms are so ugly...and my legs have little spots and moles all over them. YUK. I had a LOT of bad BAD sunburns as a child and teenager and that probably didn't help.

[lisaz8605]

Sun damage is definitely a consideration while appreciating the benefits. It's a difficult balance to achieve. I always talk about being "sun kissed" but that means beng out just long enough to get a few more freckles and feel the glow and warmth of the sunshine before the burn starts. It's been a challenge my whole life and I've failed before to the point where I have uneven freckles on my back in the shape of an X from a burn from 1994 (I kid you not) where I'd forgotten to put sunscreen on (and was out in full sun on a beach for far too long). I'm very lucky the rest of my skin still looks as good as it does and I think moisturizing has probably played a big part. Regardless of my SPF use I can tell you I am absolutely dedicated to slathering on after-sun moisturizers. Ironically (re: Elle's story) I like Hawaiin Tropics version - but anything with Aloe, Vitaman E, Cocoa Butter and/or Shea Butter (or combos thereof) work for me. I think it's helped though I know more concious and careful time in the sun is the best option.

[MamaSara6]

Hey, Elle, we're the same age, so we're from the same "era"! :lol: I don't think I used the grease very often as a teen, just let it happen naturally, but I remember a couple of burns. One in particular was just a strip across the top of my breasts from my swimsuit being out of place----that one blistered up and left scars!

When we took DD to the dr. once, as a teen, he commented on her tan and told her to look at my butt to see the difference between my exposed and unexposed parts! He did nothing but gross her out. :lol:

Another remedy for the lack of exposure is Dr. Mike's recommendation of 5,000 IUs of D3 every day. I swear it is making a difference in my mood and, miraculously, I have not yet come down with the plague that is roaring through my family! That's not to say I won't get it, but I'm holding on longer than usual. I'm usually very susceptible to stuff.

[ElleH]

Oh, he recommends 5000 units? That's good to know. I couldn't find it anywhere. I take 1600 right now. Maybe I should increase it. I definitely noticed a difference in my skin when I added the Vit D3 and the fish oil to my day. I have been unusually "well" too, now that I think of it.

I had gorgeous skin all over when I was teenager. My niece is the same and is really into tanning. I want to show her my skin now and tell her to STOP it. She has a deeper skin tone and tans that really really DARK DARK, and I am pretty fair and mine was more gold--would get to certain color then wouldn't get any darker, no matter how much time I spend in the sun. Her mother is the same and her skin still looks really good at almost 50...so maybe it's all in the skin type.

I agree with Lisa...the Eades recommend just enough sun to feel a good strong warmth each day.

[MamaSara6]

If you live anywhere in the northern US (and that’s above El Paso, Texas), in Canada or in Europe, you need vitamin D3 in pretty large doses. I take at least 5,000 IU daily during the winter and sometimes a 50,000 IU booster capsule if I’ve been exposed to a lot of sick people (for instance the lady who sat across the aisle from me on the flight last night and coughed the entire way). If you are like most of the New Yorkers I met and are fish-belly white, you need vitamin D. If you are African American you need vitamin D. Don’t leave home without it.

That's a quote from one of Dr. Mike's blogposts in December. I couldn't find a whole article in a short time. But, I think he's saying that even if you get the 10 mins. of sun every day, if you're very far north (of El Paso!), or darker skinned, you really need the supplement. Yes, I'd rather have the sun, but in the winter there is not enough skin exposed to make a difference.

[007]

This really is an interesting topic (if I do say so myself). Many questions to be answered. Unfortunately, this is a topic that is hard to find good information about. A lot of biased conflicting opinions from the pharmaceutical companies and reverse theories coming from the sun worshipers (a.k.a. The Indoor Tanning Industrial Complex). By the way, I thought February was Black History Month. Or, at least that's what I heard on the Howard Stern Show. Stern is planning on honoring African-Americans every day in the month of February by presenting a daily black joke. This is a level of political correctness unmatched since last October when Stern celebrated National Breast Cancer Awareness Month by giving out free on-air breast exams to strippers. (No, Howard Stern is not a doctor, but he did read a pamphlet, so he's qualified.)

A key question brought up is: Even if indoor tanning (or outdoor tanning) is safe, does it cause wrinkling? I wish I knew the answer. But, I think I'm going to try a tanning salon (after asking all of the relevant questions about spectrum, etc.). As ElleH mentioned, asking for scientific advice from the bronzed bimbettes who work in these cancer dens is probably futile. I imagine these "intellectuals" trying to explain the the theory of electromagnetic radiation to customers using a diagram written in crayon. My main concern is to go very gradually. Like, five minutes a day. I happen to a person who looks SO much better with a nice tan. Contrary to the book's advice, outdoor tanning in the winter is not a realistic option.

Speaking of the book (Protein Power Lifeplan), I'm almost finished with chapter two, which was a bunch of scientific mumbo jumbo about insulin. A little hard for a political scientist like myself to follow. Although, chapter one was fun to read! It was all about pre-historic anthropology. I LOVE reading about cavemen!

ElleH: Thanks for the tip about Dr. Eades Blog. Where is that blog on the 'net?

P.S. Tan lines are sexy!

[ElleH]

It's right here...enjoy! (http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/) A lot of really good info here! Years worth of blogs to read!

[ruthla]

I wonder about the wrinkling and sun exposure- was it the constant tanning that caused damage or rather those few bad burns you had? Dr. Eades talks about careful sun exposure- a few minutes a day, building up a base tan, not overdoing it even when you're well tanned- in other words, using common sense and avoiding burns.

I personally don't get a whole lot of sun exposure because I wear a lot of clothing for religious reasons- but what parts I do expose (hands, lower arms, face, lower legs) I rarely use sunscreen on, and only at times when I'm going to be out all day and I'm afraid of getting burned. So I basically get as much sun exposure as it's possible for me to get with my lifestyle, and I take cod liver oil every day. I don't think I'm getting 5,000 IU of vitamin D daily though- according to Fitday it's about 34 mcg. Is a mcg and an IU the same thing?

[MamaSara6]

According to the chart I found, 400 IU is equal to 10 mcg. So, you're getting 1,360 IUs, Ruth. Living in NY and dressing modestly, I'd say you're a definite candidate for supplementation! Fortunately, as Dr. Mike points out, D3 is "dirt cheap" so it won't add that much to the budget.

007, You are totally cracking me up! :lol:

[ndelacourt]

My ND tested my D3 level....it was 16.....it should be 60! So needless to say I got the 50,000 units per week capsule for the winter months.....I think it's helped a bit. I still feel SAD....and want to stay in bed all day.....

I live in rainy Pacific Northwest though...zero sun....and lots of grey dark rainy days...

And I go the the sunbed too....I need the warmth and dryness....I think it helps a bit. It's the UVB that increases vitamin d production....and most sunbeds filter out the UVB....the UVB is what causes the skin to burn.....I tried the super expensive high pressure beds....but it only has 1% UVB...the conventional tanning bed is around 5%....so I have found it better to do 5 mins in the conventional bed....just before I start to burn....rather than 20 mins in the expensive high pressure bed with no burning.

I am off to go today again.....it has been a couple of weeks.

I also use the full spectrum lightbulbs in all the livingroom and desk lamps.....

Have a great day!
Natascha

[ruthla]

Good to know. Maybe I'll pick up some D3 to supplement my supplements. ;)

It's probably cheaper than dirt- have you seen the prices on topsoil lately? :lol:

[deirdra]

Most of the bronzed bimbettes I see have the wrinkles of someone 10-20 years older. That's why they keep bronzing - the wrinkles are more obvious when they are pale.

I am very fair w/red hair & blue eyes and don't really tan, but freckles with pink background look sort of like a tan. I take D3 in winter (recent changes to Canadian guidelines have made it more common in 1000 IU doses and cheap) and build up slowly in spring to summer, starting with only 5 minutes at a time (no sunscreen). Interestingly, I get more freckles without sunscreen than with sunscreen, and actually build up a tolerance. By midsummer, I don't put on sunscreen unless I'll be out for more than an hour in full sun. Since I started following the Eades advice in 2000, I've had fewer burns than I did when I faithfully used sunscreen from the first day out.

[007]

New information update from agent 007!

Yesterday (Sunday) I finally went to a tanning salon to get info. It turns out the girl who works there is NOT a bronzed bimbo, she was actually smart! Or, at least she claimed to be smart. She was wearing those Tina Fey glasses so I tended to believe her, i.e., she looked smart. She said she's planning on going to college to be a nurse or doctor. She impressed me as being smart (and cute in a "thinking man's woman" kind of way - i.e., my type) and I'm a total snob about these kind of things. Anyway, I asked her if she read "Protein Power." She has not, but she wants to read it. So, I'm going to photocopy the "Sunshine Superman?" chapter and give it to her (the salon is right across the street from my apartment).

Then, after she reads the chapter, she is going to recommend the type of tanning bed that most closely matches the actual sun according to the author's description in the book. There are several types of tanning beds -- all with different combinations/magnitudes of UVA/UVB rays, etc. So, she's going to tell us which one to use. Also, I quizzed her on electromagnetic radiation and she actually understood the theory. So, I think we can trust her advice. She also said, she will get her boss (proprietor) to read it, too, to get his opinion.

After I get this info I'll post back here (assuming any of you want to learn this). And thanks, ElleH for posting the blog link.

End communique from 007.......

James Bond Will Return

[PilotGal]

Even if indoor tanning (or outdoor tanning) is safe, does it cause wrinkling?i'm in the sun pretty much everyday here in south florida.
i have always protected my skin and at 53, you can't tell my age, looking at my skin....

now..... last year i did 3-4 months of tanning in a salon with natural sun bulbs..
after that 3-4 month period, my skin dried out and aged a good 6 yrs....
wrinkles popped out and threw me for a loop.
it came up fast!

i'm now showing some of my age..
if you want to slow down the aging process.... i don't recommend the tanning salons. it really did a number on my skin....

because of that, i've taken to wearing my hat in the sun, whenever i'm outside, and i still use lots of protective lotions.
i haven't seen any increased wrinkle production this year..

and i will never do another tanning salon again, unless i want to look my age.

[Sandollar]

I used to lie around in the sun as a teenager...used tanning beds and had my own tanning lamp at home.

I had skin cancer by the time I was 23.

Since I am outside most of the day with my job, I now wear a hat most days...I also have an SPF in my make-up and chapstick...

I am convinced it was the tanning that gave me the cancer. I would never tan again...inside or outside.

To this day my mother will pull me aside and say, "You look so much better with a tan."

(rolling my eyes)

[2brickie]

I love to tan, but it sure doesnt like me. I get outside as much as I can because I love it, but I cant anymore. If you all saw the lovely scar on my face from years of tanning in tanning beds and the years of tanning outside as a teenager, you wouldnt believe it. Scared me to death, had to have a skin graft to fill in the whole where what looked like a freckle came out.

But to the other point, I take vitamin d and it makes a huge difference for me in the winter.

If I could tan I probably still would, but I have discovered the magic of spray tanning. I have it done at a salon and it makes me feel great with the tan lines.

[Dharmalisa]

The Mercola website has lots of information about tanning, Vit D, and tanning beds. After reading it I decided to tan in a salon year round. It's not ideal, but it helps. Mercola is now selling 'safe' tanning lamps but they're $1300, so I'll have to wait a bit to afford one.

[2brickie]

Oh it would be a dream to have safe tanning bulbs. My dermatologist who I see about every 6 months now has explained to me that anytime someone burns its bad for the skin. I don't let me kids out without sunscreen anymore and my 15 year old turns dark dark brown even with SPF 30 on. He just has that skin I guess. I am not the candidate for skin cancer. I have dark hair, darker skin, and my father is American Indian but I have it. They said it had to be from the years of tanning in a tanning bed.

I sure hope those bulbs are what they say they are.

[Wyvrn]

As other posters pointed out, Vit D produced by UVB, which is also the "burning ray". The proportion of UVB in sunlight at noon in the tropics is about 5%. UVB is filtered by the atmosphere. Most of the year, very little UVB makes it through the atmosphere in most of the US.

I have also checked at the salon - read the training manual used by the salon staff, which says that the low pressure lamps are closer to natural sunlight (about 95% UVA and 5% UVB) and the high pressure lamps used in the stand-up "Hex" units and some newer beds have very little UVB - selling point because UVA doesn't burn as fast.

Since winter began I had been using the high pressure Hex unit because it was faster and quit supplementing Vit D, and damned if I didn't come down with about the worst case of the flu I've ever had. So I'm back to taking a vit D supplement and the low pressure beds.

[tangy]

look at pictures of old sun worshippers and then compare them to images of people who have been cooped up indoors. institutionalized mental patients often appear to be ten or twenty years younger than their peers because they receive little sun exposure.

[Chell921]

look at pictures of old sun worshippers and then compare them to images of people who have been cooped up indoors. institutionalized mental patients often appear to be ten or twenty years younger than their peers because they receive little sun exposure.

That..... and maybe the meds just bloat them up enough that the wrinkles don't show!

Personally, I don't mind getting a bit of a base tan at the salon. I use a lot more moisturizer when I'm at the tanning salon than I do normally, so it hasn't been a problem.

And nothing can do more damage to my skin that the constant burn-turn tan that I did when I was a teen. Anyone else's mom advise them to use baby oil and iodine?? Geesh!

Lastly, sun is UVA; tanning salons are UVB rays. Even if you have a tan from a tanning salon, you still really need to protect your skin b/c you are tan due to a different ray. UVA is what produces the Vitamin D....

[LessLiz]

I was mahogany colored every summer, and honestly no one ever guesses my age correctly. I do not have the leathery skin or deep wrinkles everyone tells me sun worshipers get.

[Dharmalisa]

It's more genetics than anything else!!

[Wifezilla]

Even if the sun isn't causing cancer, isn't it still causing wrinkles??

The biggest cause of wrinkles is not the sun, but a high carb diet. Sugar and carbs cause a change in your collagen. It also depletes your body of vitamin C, which is what your skin uses to repair sun damage.

I blogged about this a while back...
http://wifezillasway.blogspot.com/2007/11/low-carb-can-prevent-wrinkles.html
http://wifezillasway.blogspot.com/2007/12/in-defense-of-sun.html

This year I have sworn off sun screen, I get about 30 minutes of full exposure sun a day. Even though I am still pale (I'm Irish and Norwegian), I have a very healthy glow now instead of looking like Casper's sister. I did spend over 6 hours out in the sun yesterday, and due to where I was sitting during a bbq with a client and later in the hot tub with hubby, I got a little burned on one shoulder. I covered that area with a blend of vitamin c and palm oil last night and today it is just a slight pink but already turning brown. Previous to my supplementing with Vitamin D (I started in January....4000 IU per day), anything more than 10 minutes outside would cause me to burst in to flames, blister, and peel. 3 days later I would be back to liquid-paper white.

(FYI...if you lay out naked, no tan lines :D )

[LessLiz]

I think it is more than just genetics -- the Vitamin D contributed to good health.

[anyway...]

I remember reading somewhere on Dr Eades blog that the tanning beds are not beneficial b/c they don't provide the right spectrum of UV light or something like that, and not to bother with them. He said natural sunlight is the best.

Unfortunately, it was in the comments section where he answered someone, and not in his actual blog, so a search didn't bring up anything. But I definitely remember reading it.

Think I found it:

This doesn’t have much to do with your post, but it has to do with mood elevating:

I’d like to see your opinion about tanning booths. In the winter months, where I live, we get about zero sunshine exposure. With my current diet, I’m probably getting about no vitamin D every day. I haven’t have any decent sun exposure since the month of august.

I’m curious about how much U.Is are produced vs. the sun, and how often should we tan. What I’m worried about is that this artificial tanning is much stronger, so if it is too long, the vitamin D might get destroyed. When you suntan outside, you usually tan on one side, then get on the other side, and so on, so I guess that the vitamin D gets a chance to be absorbed, so that you can produce some more when you come back to that side. Tanning booths have an advantage though: a full body UVb exposure, something that is not possible around here when tanning outside…

I’m going to start tanning next week, probably twice a week, only 5 minutes to begin. Since this will be the main change in my habits, I hope to be able to notice if it has an impact on my mood, my energy levels, my sleep, and perhaps my strength (weight training).

Thanks

Hi Max–

I’m no expert on tanning booths, but I do know that the wave length that tans is UVA. The wave length that burns is UVB. UVB also stimulates vitamin D synthesis. As I understand it, tanning beds produce primarily UVA, which would make sense considering people go to tanning beds to get tanned, not burned.

Why don’t you simply take a vitamin D3 supplement. They’re dirt cheap. Take at least 5,000 IU per day during the winter season - I take that much every day that I don’t go into the sun, summer and winter alike. A recent review article in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition stated that even 10,000 IU per day isn’t too high.

So, were I you, I would check on the wavelength of the light in the tanning beds before I spent much time in them. If I found it to be primarily UVA, I would avoid them like the plague. UVA is the wavelength that stimulates the melanocytes and increases the risk for melanoma, a very nasty cancer.

Regular sun exposure gives you both UVA and UVB. The UVB produces vitamin D, which is protects against the development of melanoma as a consequence of the UVA exposure. As you develop a tan, you are protected even more.

The worst set up for melanoma is to go out in the sun for long periods using a UVB sunblock. The sunblock allows you to spend a lot more time in the sun without getting burned while also allowing you to get a whopping dose of UVA.

Good luck.

Cheers–

MRE


http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/humor/mood-elevators/

[Blenders]

Even if the sun isn't causing cancer, isn't it still causing wrinkles??

I found this interesting article on coconut oil. Here's an excerpt:

"Rabbit experiments, and studies of humans, showed that the amount of unsaturated oil in the diet strongly affects the rate at which aged, wrinkled skin develops. The unsaturated fat in the skin is a major target for the aging and carcinogenic effects of ultraviolet light, though not necessarily the only one."

Here's the rest of the article: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml

I'll be using more coconut oil (and other saturated fats) in my diet!