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Demi
Sun, Dec-02-07, 02:18
The Sunday Times
London, UK
2 December, 2007


The big issue

Women are never happy about weight – their own or others’. Nigella Lawson, a victim of the fat police, talks to Style about why we do it to ourselves

Shane Watson

How would you summarise Nigella Lawson? A bright, beautiful, super-successful, late-fortysomething who loves food and has the curves to prove it, and who has accidentally become probably the most fancied woman in Britain, comes close. A role model for her own sex and an object of desire for heterosexual males of all ages, comes closer. Either way, don’t you just love her?

Or is she just offensively fat? Because there are women out there who are far from satisfied with Nigella’s size. On the BBC website, members of the public have been expressing horror at her perceived weight gain during the filming of the current, gloriously gluttonous television series, Nigella Express. Comments have ranged from “She’s a porker” to “What sort of an example is she setting with her weight and her appetite for high-calorie sweets and cream?”. Nigella is, in short, being targeted for the thing that makes her so desirable – her womanliness.

“It isn’t great being described as overweight,” Nigella tells me over the phone, matter of factly. “Maybe I have put on weight, or maybe it’s a bad camera angle. But in real life, this is normal size.

“Everyone is so critical,” she continues. “All must be sacrificed to the great god of skinny. You must say no to everything. Life has to be pretty fabulous, surely, if you can afford to turn down occasions of pleasure?”

What is remarkable about the “great god of skinny”, as Nigella puts it, is that he has toppled the god of beauty with hardly a murmur of dissent. If celebrity culture is any indication, beauty without a slim body is now almost pointless – see how Beyoncé has started to be targeted by the curve police. Her bootylicious body, which most men would die for, was described at the recent American Music Awards as “erupting” out of her dress.

“I think it is a fear of flesh,” says Nigella, “maybe of vulnerability and softness.” Is that ultimately a fear of sex? “I don’t know. But I do think that women who spend all their lives on a diet probably have a miserable sex life: if your body is the enemy, how can you relax and take pleasure? Everything is about control, rather than relaxing, about holding everything in.”

Her experience (the deaths of a mother, sister and husband from cancer) has also made her see thinness as something to dread rather than aspire to. “I associate thinness with dying. My mother had real eating issues. When she had cancer, she said, ‘This is the first time I have eaten without worrying,’ and that is chilling. Something clicked, and I vowed never to say, ‘I am not allowed that.’ ” In her TV series, Nigella plays on her low opinion of self-discipline (though she clearly has enough of it to run a family and a mega-career), but in so doing, she is putting herself firmly in what we have come to regard as the fat camp. That is, among women who embrace pleasure and don’t beat themselves up about it – as opposed to the skinny camp, which sees containing their desires and bodies as a continuing challenge. It’s the latter camp that Nigella thinks is a threat to normal feminine existence. “In my experience, the weight thing is an almost totally female problem. I never feel bad about my weight around men, only women. Women act like it is somehow a moral failing to have hips.”

At the other end of the scale, there are the demonised skinnies. I don’t mean the Nicole Richies (demonise away), but the natural beanpoles, such as Erin O’Connor and Keira Knightley and even Kate Moss, who are as blameless as their curvy counterparts. Thin is as much of a taboo as fleshy, and for all the obvious reasons. Skinny looks unnurturing and unwomanly; it is the sign of a narcissistic, empty-headed nature. As the angular model Erin O’Connor wrote for this magazine on the subject of the size-zero outcry: “The public humiliation of seeing my health analysed by complete strangers – did I menstruate? Was I capable of becoming pregnant? Why was I skeletal? – was bearable. The questioning of my integrity was less so.” Just as we are encouraged to look at women with flesh on their bones and sneer at their lack of control, we are conditioned to look at our skinny sisters and despise their self-denial.

There is a lot of confusion about this weight fascism. We blame fashion. We blame models. We blame ageism and advertising and celebrity. But who stands to gain from ostracising women because they are too curvaceous or too thin? Other women, that’s who: women who mistrust their own sex and who lack confidence in themselves.

Skinny bitch or fat cow: which side of the line are you? The fact is, you can’t avoid taking sides. JK Rowling is the latest to show her colours. Provoked by articles commenting on her supposed “new diet”, she snapped back with: “In the interests of accuracy, I must point out that, far from losing weight, I’ve gained a good bit.” She also made references to Paris Hilton-type celebrities, describing them as “empty-headed, self-obsessed, emaciated clones”.

The underlying issue is becoming clear. In the fat camp are those who represent the forces of goodness and womanliness, or indulgence and ill discipline, depending on where you stand on the scales; in the skinny camp are the savvy, fit, modern girls, or the life-deniers – if you’re not so thin yourself. The size you are is a statement of your entire life philosophy, and the gulf between the two camps is filled with fear and misunderstanding. It is war, ladies, and it is our war. We are making enemies of each other on the basis of body shape.

Vanessa Feltz has recently lost four stone, but doesn’t anticipate it making the slightest difference to her public profile. “There has been a proprietorial interest in my weight ever since I became famous,” she says. “People come up to me in supermarkets and comment on what I am buying. It is very disconcerting.” She learnt, years ago, that weight is a stick to beat women with; size itself is a mere detail. “After my husband left, I was Vanessa with ‘breasts like Zeppelins’, and then a few weeks later I was ‘gaunt and haggard’. That was when I realised there is never a good day, never a point at which they say, ‘This is how a woman should look.’ ”

Maybe women are attacking each other over this issue because it symbolises a more general guilt and confusion about who we should be. “I have days when I feel fat, and days when I feel woman-shaped,” says Nigella. And perhaps this is all about how we define ourselves as women. Should we be at home, baking cakes? Should we be binding our pregnancy bumps in the boardroom? If we can turn all our anxieties about how we should be living our lives into a fight about our size, then maybe that is our way of coping.

“I don’t think that it has necessarily got worse: my mother was obsessed with weight,” says Feltz. “But now, nobody ever says, ‘Handsome is as handsome does, and so what if she’s put on few pounds – she’s still fascinating.’ That’s the real difference.”


http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/diet_and_fitness/article2941491.ece

bsheets
Sun, Dec-02-07, 02:43
Fat? She's gorgeous! She's the ideal weight (and my personal goal shape) in my opinion.

Nancy LC
Sun, Dec-02-07, 09:36
At the other end of the scale, there are the demonised skinnies. I don’t mean the Nicole Richies (demonise away), but the natural beanpoles, such as Erin O’Connor and Keira Knightley and even Kate Moss, who are as blameless as their curvy counterparts. Thin is as much of a taboo as fleshy, and for all the obvious reasons. Skinny looks unnurturing and unwomanly; it is the sign of a narcissistic, empty-headed nature. As the angular model Erin O’Connor wrote for this magazine on the subject of the size-zero outcry: “The public humiliation of seeing my health analysed by complete strangers – did I menstruate? Was I capable of becoming pregnant? Why was I skeletal? – was bearable. The questioning of my integrity was less so.” Just as we are encouraged to look at women with flesh on their bones and sneer at their lack of control, we are conditioned to look at our skinny sisters and despise their self-denial.
I have nothing against people who are naturally thin but what I do have a problem with is the fashion industry and media using them as the ideal woman. As we all know most of us are not that way and so many women sacrifice their health to anorexia, drugs and stupid diets to try to become that. When a skinny model walks down the runway how does anyone know whether she came by it by a fluke of genetics, starvation or by abusing veterinarian drugs?

Wifezilla
Sun, Dec-02-07, 10:01
I think they pick these twig models because lazy, talentless designers can't handle working in 3 dimensions.

Nancy LC
Sun, Dec-02-07, 10:04
Absolutely right! :)

rightnow
Sun, Dec-02-07, 10:15
JK Rowling is the latest to show her colours. Provoked by articles commenting on her supposed “new diet”, she snapped back with: “In the interests of accuracy, I must point out that, far from losing weight, I’ve gained a good bit.” She also made references to Paris Hilton-type celebrities, describing them as “empty-headed, self-obsessed, emaciated clones”.
I knew I liked her.

LessLiz
Sun, Dec-02-07, 10:25
Models are intended to be clothes hangers. Their job is to disappear while making the clothes stand out. Not surprisingly they look like long clothes hangers.

I don't think Nigella Lawson is considered sexy simply because of her shape. I think it is equally her attitude and the fact that she projects her love of sensual pleasures. In my world, she, Beyonce, and Audrey Hepburn are all beautiful women. It's more than shapes or faces -- it's what they say about themselves by how they present those shapes and faces.

mathmaniac
Sun, Dec-02-07, 10:29
It's too bad she's not fat. Such a message coming from a fat person would mean more (of course, in her mind, she is fat, probably, judging and comparing herself against her peers - she travels in circles where 'you can't be too thin or too rich' is displayed in living color...)
She's glamorous and she's not fat. I truly if she wanted to be fat, she could be and if she wanted to be frumpy, she could be. She's iconic, practically, in her glamorous sexy housewifely way - making homemade pies in a state-of-the-art kitchen. Nothing wrong with that - she's absolutely lovely. She probably will stay that way well into her 90s!

nocarbkat
Sun, Dec-02-07, 10:31
I love Nigella, I think she's drop dead gorgeous!

However, I got the impression from the article (inless I read it wrong) that it tried to say that if you are thin, then you are "life denying." Almost like you are boring and don't enjoy sex.

I see weight as a health issue, and to me that is "life affirming" to care about that health issue. But I have never been a fan of vanity for vanity's sake....

kneebrace
Sun, Dec-02-07, 14:56
Aren't we missing the point here? As Gary Taubes points out so persuasively, bodyfat gain is a hormonal process. If you eat the kind of food Nigella is such a good promoter of, of course (most) people are going to store a lot of bodyfat, and you aren't going to be very healthy. Are we kidding? This whole forum is about the health/ bodycomp dangers of high fat/high carb, the very foods Nigella glamorizes.

She might be very pretty but she's selling the wrong health message IMHO. And if she was suggesting this kind of food 'only occasionally' while eating better food most of the time it would certainly be better, but she's not even doing that. She's pretending that if you use 'quality' ingredients and the culinary creativity she oozes from every pore of her fabulous curves, high fat/high carb might somehow be more than a health/bodycomp tragedy. Unfortunately, she's wrong.

Let's not let the politics of fat get in the way of appreciating the scary health/body comp consequences of high fat/carbs. Nigella (and anyone else) can choose to look like whatever she likes, and shouldn't be judged for it aesthetically. But that's not the issue.

Stuart

LessLiz
Sun, Dec-02-07, 16:49
Sorry Stuart, but I think you missed the point of the article, which is not about how Nigella Lawson cooks or whether her food is "healthy."

kallyn
Sun, Dec-02-07, 18:42
I checked one of Nigella Lawson's cookbooks out of the library once and in it she stated quite plainly that when she wants to drop a few pounds that she goes low-carb.

amberview
Sun, Dec-02-07, 19:15
I think that a lot of people comment about other's weight because they are afraid of change.

kneebrace
Sun, Dec-02-07, 19:35
I checked one of Nigella Lawson's cookbooks out of the library once and in it she stated quite plainly that when she wants to drop a few pounds that she goes low-carb.

That's great. She's obviously clever as well as a splendid cook. But I wonder if anyone who criticizes the 'porker' description is subconsciously terrified of going the same way. Otherwise this forum wouldn't be so popular. Nigella Lawson is enormously entertaining and has a very pretty face and some curves that I personally find attractive. Others I don't, not that my personal opinion amounts to squat. Nor should the opinions of those who find her unattractively overweight matter either. They're neither good nor bad opinions.

This really comes back to whether there is some evolutionarily programmed female (or male for that matter) form which is the ideal. I for one think there is, and the fact that very few people find extremes of thin or fat very attractive tends to reinforce that view. Of course when this issue is raised, the argument that some cultures have historically found fat aesthetically attractive is always trotted out. But those instances were the exception rather than the norm, and IMHO reflected economic imperatives rather than aesthetic.

And the other thing worth remembering is that just because 'fat' or 'emaciated' tends to be considered 'less' attractive than 'slim' 'toned' .... or any of the thousand and one descriptions of 'more' attractive, doesn't mean the the person within whatever body they happen to be wearing is priceless.

I think that this forum has a very bright future, precisely because very few people actually want to be fat.

I haven't watched her cooking show for some time, but when I did I was always struck by how the camera angles were always picked to minimize exposure of anything below her bosom. That the upper angles show her much more (physcally) attractive features might have something to do with it.

Stuart

mathmaniac
Sun, Dec-02-07, 19:49
I haven't watched her cooking show for some time, but when I did I was always struck by how the camera angles were always picked to minimize exposure of anything below her bosom. That the upper angles show her much more (physcally) attractive features might have something to do with it.


Yes - the camera! She is not FAT and I guarantee that in person, she is much slimmer than what you see on camera. She is blessed because she is very very photogenic. To the same extent that Martha Stewart (who used to be a model) is photogenic.
This is no small thing.
I used to go on my lunch hour to department stores nearby because they had celebrities come and sign books and give short speeches. Sophia Loren in pictures and film is positively statuesque and has a 'womanly' shape - but in person, she looks almost stick thin. Bette Midler looks like she has a few extra pounds on her on film; in person, she's a delicate little thing. Celebrities hear that often - 'You're smaller than I imagined.' Only someone like Conan O'Brian actually shocks people because he is so TALL!

Kary
Sun, Dec-02-07, 19:52
I think Nigella looks fine. If she is happy with her appearance and her health that is what matters most. But since she is the star of a cooking show, the author of cookbooks and is running a food centric corporation, she has placed herself in the position of being identified with the type of food she makes/advocates. And a lot of the food she prepares (and makes quite a point of enjoying while on air) isn't really that healthy unless you tweak it a good deal.
As far as women judging other women harshly because of their bodies, we have always been our own worse enemies. We continue to denigrate each other based on body shape or weight despite the fact that it a pointless waste of time. Quite frankly the only body shape I am concerned with is my own. And when I reach a point where I feel healthy, then that will satisfy me. And if some people think I am too fat and undisciplined or that I am too thin and life denying than that will just be their tough luck :).

kneebrace
Sun, Dec-02-07, 20:13
Yes - the camera! She is not FAT and I guarantee that in person, she is much slimmer than what you see on camera. She is blessed because she is very very photogenic. To the same extent that Martha Stewart (who used to be a model) is photogenic.
This is no small thing.
I used to go on my lunch hour to department stores nearby because they had celebrities come and sign books and give short speeches. Sophia Loren in pictures and film is positively statuesque and has a 'womanly' shape - but in person, she looks almost stick thin. Bette Midler looks like she has a few extra pounds on her on film; in person, she's a delicate little thing. Celebrities hear that often - 'You're smaller than I imagined.' Only someone like Conan O'Brian actually shocks people because he is so TALL!

Fair enough MM, I obviously haven't seen enough celebrities in the flesh. And I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but does that mean that Dawn Fraser (who wears her [apparent] bulk with 'enormous' style) is really a petite thing?. Or the emaciated sticks gracing our catwalks really quite fleshy, in the flesh?. I do wonder though. I saw Megan Gayle at a local shopping centre recently, and she looks pretty much like she does in the media. A very tall moderately slim attractive woman.

Stuart

LessLiz
Sun, Dec-02-07, 21:29
Interesting observations. I saw Jessica Lange every day for a couple of months while I was in grad school because she shopped daily in a store where I worked. In person she looked exactly the way she looked on screen (only without the make up -- a remarkably beautiful woman I have to say!) as did Paul Newman, whom I saw fairly frequently for the same reason. A good friend is married to a local newscaster and I can't tell the difference between her on screen and off screen appearance.

keywstdame
Mon, Dec-03-07, 03:23
I think they pick these twig models because lazy, talentless designers can't handle working in 3 dimensions.

Boy, did you hit the nail on the head. I'm old enough to remember when the runway had slim but "real" looking women and the designers made clothes you could actually fantasize wearing yourself. Now it seems as if it is just cloth draped over stick figures that have no basis in reality for the average woman.

Demokat
Mon, Dec-03-07, 06:09
Boy, did you hit the nail on the head. I'm old enough to remember when the runway had slim but "real" looking women and the designers made clothes you could actually fantasize wearing yourself. Now it seems as if it is just cloth draped over stick figures that have no basis in reality for the average woman.

That was only in the early-mid 1990s. Remember Cindy Crawford and Christy Turlington? They were slim but had curves. Now we have a bunch of anorexic 13-year olds modeling clothes on the runway.

LessLiz
Mon, Dec-03-07, 06:53
That was only in the early-mid 1990s. Remember Cindy Crawford and Christy Turlington? They were slim but had curves. Now we have a bunch of anorexic 13-year olds modeling clothes on the runway.I''m not sure Cindy Crawford would agree with you. She was on a continuous diet until she retired from modeling and "ballooned" to a size 8 - 10 when she quit dieting. She's made a few pointed comments about the modeling industry. Then there is Christie Brinkley from the 80s who spent much of her career obsessing over her "fat thighs." But the average runway model from that time looked like a stick figure in runway photos.

zedgirl
Mon, Dec-03-07, 14:45
I checked one of Nigella Lawson's cookbooks out of the library once and in it she stated quite plainly that when she wants to drop a few pounds that she goes low-carb.

Yes, I’ve heard her mention that certain dishes she prepares are good for ‘carb avoiders’ and I also once heard her comment, when cooking a dish with lard or some other saturated fat in it, (I’m paraphrasing, it was a long time ago) how you shouldn’t worry too much about cooking with it because it’s never really been proven that saturated fat is bad for you.

KvonM
Mon, Dec-03-07, 15:48
Boy, did you hit the nail on the head. I'm old enough to remember when the runway had slim but "real" looking women and the designers made clothes you could actually fantasize wearing yourself. Now it seems as if it is just cloth draped over stick figures that have no basis in reality for the average woman.
what's even sadder is the downward spiral that's created... models become thinner, designer's stock sizes become smaller, models become muses, to the point where haute coture clothing loses its wearability by the normal woman. the show "project runway" is a perfect example of this. hand them a challenge and a size 0 model and they're fine. expect them to design for something out of their comfort zone and they fall apart.

i love the line in "the devil wears prada":
Andy Sachs: So none of the girls here eat anything?
Nigel: Not since two became new four and zero became the new two.
Andy Sachs: Well, I'm a six...
Nigel: Ah... the new fourteen.

Nancy LC
Thu, Dec-06-07, 09:19
I think this picture pretty well sums it up:
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-self-image-cat.jpg

ValerieL
Thu, Dec-06-07, 09:38
i love the line in "the devil wears prada":
Andy Sachs: So none of the girls here eat anything?
Nigel: Not since two became new four and zero became the new two.
Andy Sachs: Well, I'm a six...
Nigel: Ah... the new fourteen.

I'm a 14. That must make me the new 20.

I find it's much easier to avoid the feeling that I should lose another 20lbs if I avoid TV, magazines and the mall. Those are the places where the "you aren't okay as you are" messages come from. When I'm not hearing those messages, I actually quite like my body, all size 14 of it.

mathmaniac
Thu, Dec-06-07, 09:42
I saw Jessica Lange every day for a couple of months while I was in grad school because she shopped daily in a store where I worked. In person she looked exactly the way she looked on screen (only without the make up -- a remarkably beautiful woman I have to say!) as did Paul Newman, whom I saw fairly frequently for the same reason. A good friend is married to a local newscaster and I can't tell the difference between her on screen and off screen appearance.

I''ve been thinking about this since the discussion started about 'on camera'/'off camera' differences. I don't think there's any question that the camera adds pounds; it doesn't subtract them. And I don't mean to say that celebrities are unrecognizable off-screen.
A person who could probably explain the differences better would be someone who worked in film, for example.
When they were shooting a Cher film in a New England town, I went with a friend to sign up to be extras. We got there early enough but had to stand in line for at least an hour just to sign a sheet to be considered as extras in street scenes. AND we had to submit photographs of ourselves. As a favor, I took pictures of people in line with my Polaroid camera (I had brought it along maybe because I hoped to glimpse Cher); now I realize I probably could make a bundle showing up at such events and charging ten bucks a shot!
Why didn't they just put costumes on people of the town who were already walking on those streets? They even care about the 'photogenicity' of passersby in the most trivial backgrounds. I wasn't even fat at the time but I was not slim. They look for hairstyles that are not modern and hair that is not frosted or streaked (mine is neither). I'm just guessing it's a real job to size up and choose people to stroll down the street.
There are a variety of types of models who appear in magazine pages so it's hard to generalize about them. But, in general, just being a pretty girl and not overweight doesn't mean you will look good in pictures. And if they put makeup on you to make a glamorous photo, you probably won't look like yourself. All the makeover segments on TV shows, where they 'makeover' an average Joe or Jane, show that dramatically.
By the way, the friend who came with me was also rejected - not because she wanted to be an extra and didn't measure up. Her car didn't measure up - it was a classic from the period they were using for the movie's plot and it should have been in the movie!

glennette
Thu, Dec-06-07, 15:46
:confused: How can anyone refer to thier dress size when that has been shown to differ drasticly depending on where you shop? I remember a day when I could go anywhere (from Sears to Saks) and the same size would fit Not so today.

glendarc
Thu, Dec-06-07, 18:16
:confused: How can anyone refer to thier dress size when that has been shown to differ drasticly depending on where you shop? I remember a day when I could go anywhere (from Sears to Saks) and the same size would fit Not so today.
OMG - you must be almost as old as I am!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Glenda

glennette
Fri, Dec-07-07, 12:48
OMG - you must be almost as old as I am!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Glenda

:agree: Yep, same generation. 63 here, only I really look like your avitar. :lol:
Glennette