Low HDL, high homocysteine makes it harder to recover from Stroke

[ttlaitin]

Stroke patients are at an increased risk of memory problems and greater disability if:

HDL levels are low
Homocysteine levels are high
they also have diabetes


from Science Daily: Not Enough 'Good' Cholesterol Makes It Harder To Recover From Stroke (http://http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071126162559.htm)

The abstract says:

People are at an increased risk of memory problems and greater disability after stroke if they have low levels of "good" cholesterol and high levels of homocysteine, an amino acid acquired mostly from eating meat.

this makes it sound like the all-evil meat would be to blame. however, high homocysteine levels have been associated with DEFICIENCIES of the vitamins folic acid, B6 and B12 [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homocysteine#Elevated_homocysteine) .

well, it is quite difficult to get a B6 or B12 deficiency by eating meat! in fact quite the opposite is true - you'll get a deficiency if you avoid meat.

but hey, I guess you can always add few misleading sentences into a news article if you wish?

[PlaneCrazy]

And HDL levels generally increase with eating lots of meat. The fats in meat, mainly monounsaturated and saturated, both raise HDL levels. So, I would think that eating more fatty meat is a good thing. Eating lots of lean meat is not a good thing.

It all makes sense after a while. (the science, not the articles)

Plane

[jono]

Here's one study showing high-meat eaters had lower homocysteine than vegans:


Eur J Clin Nutr. 1999 Nov;53(11):895-9.
The effect of diet on plasma homocysteine concentrations in healthy male subjects.
Mann NJ, Li D, Sinclair AJ, Dudman NP, Guo XW, Elsworth GR, Wilson AK, Kelly FD.

Department of Food Science, RMIT University, Melbourne, Australia.

OBJECTIVE: To determine the effect of habitual omnivorous and vegetarian diets on folate and vitamin B12 status and the subsequent effect on homocysteine concentration. DESIGN: Cross-sectional comparison of free-living habitual meat-eaters and habitual vegetarians. SETTING: The study was conducted at RMIT University, Melbourne. SUBJECTS: One hundred and thirty-nine healthy male subjects (vegans n=18, ovolacto vegetarians n=43, moderate meat-eaters n=60 and high meat-eaters n=18) aged 20-55 y who were recruited in Melbourne. OUTCOME MEASURES: Fasting plasma or serum from each subject was analysed for folate, vitamin B12 and homocysteine concentration. A semi-quantitative Food Frequency Questionnaire was completed by a subset of subjects from each group to determine methionine intake. RESULTS: The two meat eating groups consumed significantly greater levels of methionine (P<0.001). There was no clear trend in plasma folate status between groups, however the plasma vitamin B12 concentration decreased progressively from the high-meat-eating group to vegans (P<0.05). An inverse trend was observed with plasma homocysteine concentration, with vegans showing the highest levels and high meat eaters the lowest (P<0.05). CONCLUSIONS: Dietary methionine intake has no observable effect on plasma homocysteine concentration. In habitual diets, where folate intake is adequate, lowered vitamin B12 intake from animal foods leads to depleted plasma vitamin B12 concentration with a concomitant increase in homocysteine concentration. The suggested mechanism is the failure to transfer a methyl group from methyl tetrahydrofolate by vitamin B12 in the remethylation of homocysteine to methionine.

PMID: 10557004 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Interestingly, this study showed that honey (ideally raw, unrefined) can lower homocysteine and improve other parameters of health:

Natural honey lowers plasma glucose, C-reactive protein, homocysteine, and blood lipids in healthy, diabetic, and hyperlipidemic subjects: comparison with dextrose and sucrose.
Al-Waili NS.

Dubai Specialized Medical Center and Medical Research Laboratories, Islamic Establishment for Education, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. noori786~yahoo.com

This study included the following experiments: (1) effects of dextrose solution (250 mL of water containing 75 g of dextrose) or honey solution (250 mL of water containing 75 g of natural honey) on plasma glucose level (PGL), plasma insulin, and plasma C-peptide (eight subjects); (2) effects of dextrose, honey, or artificial honey (250 mL of water containing 35 g of dextrose and 40 g of fructose) on cholesterol and triglycerides (TG) (nine subjects); (3) effects of honey solution, administered for 15 days, on PGL, blood lipids, C-reactive protein (CRP), and homocysteine (eight subjects); (4) effects of honey or artificial honey on cholesterol and TG in six patients with hypercholesterolemia and five patients with hypertriglyceridemia; (5) effects of honey for 15 days on blood lipid and CRP in five patients with elevated cholesterol and CRP; (6) effects of 70 g of dextrose or 90 g of honey on PGL in seven patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus; and (7) effects of 30 g of sucrose or 30 g of honey on PGL, plasma insulin, and plasma C-peptide in five diabetic patients. In healthy subjects, dextrose elevated PGL at 1 (53%) and 2 (3%) hours, and decreased PGL after 3 hours (20%). Honey elevated PGL after 1 hour (14%) and decreased it after 3 hours (10%). Elevation of insulin and C-peptide was significantly higher after dextrose than after honey. Dextrose slightly reduced cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol (LDL-C) after 1 hour and significantly after 2 hours, and increased TG after 1, 2, and 3 hours. Artificial honey slightly decreased cholesterol and LDL-C and elevated TG. Honey reduced cholesterol, LDL-C, and TG and slightly elevated high-density lipoprotein-cholesterol (HDL-C). Honey consumed for 15 days decreased cholesterol (7%), LDL-C (1%), TG (2%), CRP (7%), homocysteine (6%), and PGL (6%), and increased HDL-C (2%). In patients with hypertriglyceridemia, artificial honey increased TG, while honey decreased TG. In patients with hyperlipidemia, artificial honey increased LDL-C, while honey decreased LDL-C. Honey decreased cholesterol (8%), LDL-C (11%), and CRP (75%) after 15 days. In diabetic patients, honey compared with dextrose caused a significantly lower rise of PGL. Elevation of PGL was greater after honey than after sucrose at 30 minutes, and was lower after honey than it was after sucrose at 60, 120, and 180 minutes. Honey caused greater elevation of insulin than sucrose did after 30, 120, and 180 minutes. Honey reduces blood lipids, homocysteine, and CRP in normal and hyperlipidemic subjects. Honey compared with dextrose and sucrose caused lower elevation of PGL in diabetics.

[Rachel1]

I don't understand how (or whether) these two references support low-carb eating - can you explain?

Rachel

[Nancy LC]

Honey compared with dextrose and sucrose caused lower elevation of PGL in diabetics.
I guess if you're going to poison yourself use honey. :p

[eryalen]

Honey compared with dextrose and sucrose caused lower elevation of PGL in diabetics.
I guess if you're going to poison yourself use honey. :p
Good honey is much higher in levulose (fructose).

Glycemic Index 54.1 +/- 8.2 1 tbsp = 21 grams
3.59 grams water 17.30 grams carbohydrate
6.45 grams glucose .19 grams sucrose
9.03 grams fructose .30 grams maltose
.65 grams galactose Calories 60

http://www.lltupelohoney.com//ourproduct.htm

[LessLiz]

Wow, that "good" honey looks a lot like high fructose corn syrup.

Although HFCS can contain up to 90% fructose (22), most of the HFCS used in beverages contains {approx}55% fructose. see http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/5/911#SEC2

[eryalen]

Wow, that "good" honey looks a lot like high fructose corn syrup.
But honey is good fructose, it's natural!!!!!

[LessLiz]

Sorry, I occasionally forget that natural things like curare and nicotine are good for us.

[ttlaitin]

I don't understand how (or whether) these two references support low-carb eating - can you explain?

of course, there's no need for every research article posted here to support low-carb...

however, the first one does, since it shows that if you eat meat your homocysteine levels are ok. and low-carb eaters typically eat a lot of meat.

don't know about the second one. they are comparin sugars with other kinds of sugars. so from a low-carb point of view, the second study is about "which poison is the least lethal"...

[eryalen]

Sorry, I occasionally forget that natural things like curare and nicotine are good for us.
Curare can be good for you if you use it on your enemies.
Re: Good Honey. I wasn't trying to say it was good for you. I meant "Good quality" honey as opposed to the adulterated Beesh*t. I can't tolerate either kind.

[Zei]

"Elevation of PGL was greater after honey than after sucrose at 30 minutes, and was lower after honey than it was after sucrose at 60, 120, and 180 minutes. Honey caused greater elevation of insulin than sucrose did after 30, 120, and 180 minutes."

Okay, so this is saying honey generally raised blood sugar less than sucrose, but it also made the body put out more insulin in the process? I don't want either too high blood sugar or too much insulin released in my body, so this applies to me as a low-carber as a warning to avoid both sugar and honey. Neither is good for me.

[ProfGumby]

Honey compared with dextrose and sucrose caused lower elevation of PGL in diabetics.
I guess if you're going to poison yourself use honey. :p
Thanks for pointing that out...another veiled parameter hidden in a study....

[jono]

I dont think any real conclusions can be drawn from just the abstract of one study. Like all foods honey does some good things and some bad things, and has different effects in diabetics vs healthy people. I just thought it was interesting that honey lowered homocysteine. Some of the subjects were taking over 4 tablespoons of honey at a time... thats a lot of sugar. In moderation it may be a perfectly healthy food.

Btw, fish oil, and increasing your omega 3 to 6 ratio are also shown to lower homocysteine levels:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=8269183&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17466498&ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16555476&ordinalpos=12&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

[Rachel1]

Paleos eat honey, at least some of them do. I suppose if one keeps one's total carbs down, some people (not everyone) can incorporate a bit of honey into an LC way of eating, just as a lot of people eat fruit. For those with high metabolic resistance, it's probably not a good idea. When I was a kid, I used to eat it by the spoonful - I found it more addicting than sugar - so I don't touch the stuff. Funny, I don't have that problem with cod liver oil ... can't imagine why.

Rachel