Bear on keto adaptation?

[manger]

About a year and a half ago,halfway through Bear's Carnivorous thread, I went zero carb. Everything that Bear said would happen, happened.
After about five weeks I stopped spilling ketones, my energy increased dramatically,my immunity was strengthened, a feeling of physical and mental well being became pretty much permanent and a host of other welcome things.

Bear reiterated several times that it was essential to eat less than five grams of carbs to reach and remain in keto adapted state. This threshold always intrigued me and I decided to test it. After having about 3- 4 grams coming from eggs the whole time, I bumped it up to 20 grams three weeks ago.
No, not veggies, just ScharffenBerger unsweetened chocolate (99% pure cocoa). It is delicious I assure you. Well, nothing happened, no changes in how I feel, no trace of ketones on ketostix, no weight increase, nothing.

I have the utmost respect for Bear, but maybe he was not right on what it takes to stay keto adapted.

[mrfreddy]

I tried zero carb for several weeks, and personally I can't see any difference, results wise, between that and reasonably low carb. The only reason, as far as I can tell, to go zero carb is if you really really really hate vegetables and fruits.

[Kristine]

...and coffee, chocolate, nuts, seeds, etc.

(ETA) ... and I almost forgot beer.

[Blondie888]

From what I remember, Bear did drink coffee, but kept it to one cup a day or so to avoid the insulin response.

Unless you're really only eating meat and fat, it's extremely hard to stay under 5 grams of carbs per day. I'm not sure that Bear himself would've on an average day, particularly since he included some dairy.

Some incidental ways to get carbs on carnivore: cream, cheese, eggs, coffee, liver, spices.

BTW, I think the 99% cacao chocolate should almost be counted as a spice. How much could you eat at one sitting?!

Also, I've heard it discussed among people who do a certain carb-cycling diet (The Anabolic Diet) that they become keto-adapted after a certain point. They use the term to describe the fact that once they've been cycling low carb/high carb for long enough, they no longer go into ketosis on the low carb phases. Obviously this is quite a bit different than what Bear described, but it may help to explain why the (slightly) higher carbs did not change your keto-adaptive state.

[mike_d]

Paleo man would eat the whole animal, including the liver which has about 10 carbs per 6 oz serving. Also intestines will have some carbohydrates.

I used to eat a little cooking chocolate with my coffee, I find it a bit bitter though.

[dragonlfy]

Yes I read an old research paper that someone here posted, about the Inuit's adaptations to a ketogenic diet. The researchers found that they do not spill ketones in their urine, and only slightly so when fasting. Also of note, the Inuit only had glucose intolerance after a few days of total fasting.

In the context of their usual diet, about 50 grams of carbohydrate a day was ingested from the consumption of meat, in the form of glycogen reserves.

[JL53563]

I have the utmost respect for Bear, but maybe he was not right on what it takes to stay keto adapted.
Could it be that it might be a different threshold for different people? I seem to do well on 0-20 grams per day. It's been so long since I've had more than that, I'm not sure what would happen if I did. And really, I'm afraid to find out. I've never used the keto stix, but I'm tempted to get some and see at what carb level I would begin spilling ketones.

[manger]

Could it be that it might be a different threshold for different people? I seem to do well on 0-20 grams per day. It's been so long since I've had more than that, I'm not sure what would happen if I did. And really, I'm afraid to find out. I've never used the keto stix, but I'm tempted to get some and see at what carb level I would begin spilling ketones.

That is what I suspect too, though Bear would crucify you for heresy (verbally). About ketostix. I know people say they do not need them since they know how they feel. And they may very well be right.
I just like to have solid, verifiable numbers. Must be my engineering background.

[Nancy LC]

If you're not spilling them it could be due to many things. Your urine is too diluted with water to measure them accurately. You burned them for fuel are the two I'm aware of.

[manger]

. You burned them for fuel are the two I'm aware of.

That is what keto adaptation means.