Thrombosis in Lupus

[Ironjustic]

Anyone find it interesting this disease of .. lupus .. which
has all the hallmarks of increased red blood cell production
.. ALSO manifests a disease which seems to BE .. caused BY ..
increased red blood cell production .. ?

Thrombosis .. the air-flight / altitude / human model of
thrombosis ..

When one goes to altitude one gets .. increased red blood cell
production AND thrombosis whereas a person with lupus .. get
it / thrombosis .. down here at sea level.

Sooo .. it lupus .. elevated red blood cells .. ?

J Clin Rheumatol. 2007 Aug;13(4):224-8. Links Recurrent
thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura in a young boy with
systemic lupus erythematosus.Yuen LK, Lai WM, Tong PC, Poon
WT, Tse KC, Chiu MC. Department of Pediatrics and Adolescent
Medicine, Princess Margaret Hospital, Kowloon, Hong Kong.
slkyuen62@gmail.com

Thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP) is a rare but
potentially fatal disease in childhood. The association of
microangiopathic hemolytic anemia, schistocytes, and
thrombocytopenia without fever, neurologic, and renal
involvement is sufficient to suspect TTP at an early stage for
prompt plasma infusion or exchange therapy. TTP has been
increasingly described especially in association with systemic
lupus erythematosus (SLE). We report the youngest Chinese boy
who presented his SLE with TTP and subsequently experienced 9
relapses of TTP in a 2-year period. SLE disease activity index
was low during his TTP relapses and therefore alertness of TTP
relapse is required even in a relatively inactive period of
SLE. TTP should be recognized even without renal or neurologic
features and can respond to plasma therapy.

PMID: 17762461 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Who loves ya. Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[ferrous]

Good, another example where the iron causes all disease
because people eat meat notion can be tested. When
comparing people from s. asia,ie. india and pakistan etc.,
one study found:

"the diagnostic categories significantly over-represented^
compared to Caucasians were: hypertension and ischaemia, focal
segmental glomerulosclerosis (FSGS), idiopathic interstitial
nephritis (IIN), diabetic nephropathy, minor glomerular
abnormality, lupus nephritis and non-specific advanced chronic
renal disease^ (p<0.001)."

There it is right in the list, "Lupus". Thus in s. asia
including india where there is a low meat intake because of
cultural and poverty reasons and low iron compared to western
countries, the above list was more common when compared to a
group from europe.

When a universal assertion such as the iron notion is made, it
takes only one counter example to toss it. Above we have
several examples, what should we do?

Jesus ate a mediterranean diet.

[Ironjustic]

>> On Sep 28, 8:30 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
Good, another example where the iron causes all disease
because people eat meat notion can be tested. When
comparing people from s. asia,ie. india and pakistan etc.,
one study found:

"the diagnostic categories significantly over-represented^
compared to High Altitude Sleep Apnoea Caucasians were:
hypertension and ischaemia, focal segmental
glomerulosclerosis (FSGS), idiopathic interstitial nephritis
(IIN), diabetic nephropathy, minor glomerular abnormality,
lupus nephritis and non-specific advanced chronic renal
disease^ (p<0.001)."

There it is right in the list, "Lupus". Thus in s. asia
including india where there is a low meat intake because of
cultural and poverty reasons and low iron compared to western
countries, the above list was more common when compared to a
group from europe. <<

"Asians and Pacific Islanders had the highest blood iron
levels"

Maybe you should pick a group which doesn't have high iron
levels .. ?

>> On Sep 28, 8:30 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:and low iron
>> compared to western countries <<

Now here is where either your stupidity / lack of retention OR
your .. subversion is showing .. again ..

You are fully aware the study shows the area you point to are
the highest of anyone for iron .. but you refer ..
**specifically** TO this .. low iron .. ?

Now yesterday .. I called you on it .. and explained it to you
.. and NOW .. again today you refer to the SAME people as
.."low iron / iron deficient" ..
--------------------------------------------------------
----------
"Asians and Pacific Islanders had the highest blood iron
levels" http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/studie-
n/bericht-43700.html
--------------------------------------------------------------
---
Now what is it .. ? .. stupidity ..? .. subversion .. ?
--------------------------------------------------------------
---

Early results of the largest and most diverse screening study
of a genetic condition that causes too much iron to build up
in the body show that Asians and Pacific Islanders have the
highest mean levels of iron in their blood of all ethnic
groups involved, including African Americans, Caucasians,
Hispanics, and Native Americans.

Their equivalent / human model of Asian iron excess .. Pacific
Islanders .. you have .. **lupus** .. ..

http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/19/3/678

"the excess in Maori and Pacific Island people was confined to
type II diabetic nephropathy, hypertensive renal disease and
glomerulonephritis (especially lupus nephritis and type I
mesangiocapillary glomerulonephritis]"

Who loves ya. Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[Ironjustic]

>> On Sep 28, 3:15 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
asians etc. among those with a genetic disorder which causes
iron to build up have more of it. <<

More iron overload .. NOT .. more **genetic** iron overload ..

They couldn't actually FIND the .. **reason** FOR this high
iron levels found IN those from .. I-N-D-I-A ..

>> On Sep 28, 3:15 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
This disorder is somewhat uncommon, <<

What disorder .. ? Genetic iron overload .. ? .. Indians don't
HAVE .. genetic iron overload YET .. they have no **reason**
.. yet found FOR their HIGH .. iron .. levels ..

>> On Sep 28, 3:15 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
so what about the billions of other asians who don't have it
compared to the other billions of non-asians who don't
either? <<

Billions of Asians without .. it .. ?

Without .. what .. VERY high iron ..? .. moderate IRON ..? ..
minor iron .. ?

>> On Sep 28, 3:15 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote: The answer, as
>> compared to others in europe for example, is that india
has among the lowest iron levels. <<

Jeez .. the article says .. India .. **high** iron.

You don't understand .. it says .. "Asians have the highest
iron levels .." .. ?

Here let me snip it for ya ..
--------------------------------------------------------
----------
"Asians and Pacific Islanders had the highest blood iron
levels" http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/studie-
n/bericht-43700....
--------------------------------------------------------------
---

>> On Sep 28, 3:15 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote: So india is a
>> good place to test the iron notion. If various diseases
show up there more with low iron compared to higher iron but
less disease then the iron notion is a failure. <<

Nooo .. a country with high iron levels is NOT the place to
start to test people for .. low iron level related disease.

In a high iron study group you test for high iron related
illness NOT .. low iron related illness .. because .. ? ..
because .. ? .. they HAVE .. high iron not low iron .. and
therefore your study will be .. doomed from the beginning ..

Who loves ya. Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[Ironjustic]

>> On Sep 28, 3:15 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote: So india is a
>> good place to test the iron notion. If various diseases
show up there more with low iron compared to higher iron but
less disease then the iron notion is a failure. <<

I suppose one could type in .. what .. 'area' .. ?

What .. area .. ? India is a .. big .. area .. as you
pointed out ..

See if your .. area .. fits in THIS .. journal ..

I suppose one might have to look for the areas you
pointed out .. ?

Because .. ? .. you are **obviously** going to lie about ..
the area ..

Aren't .. you ..

Unless .. "India" .. ISN'T part of the .. "Indian
subcontinent" .. then buddy .. you are in **trouble** ..

India appearing IN this .. journal .. means .. ? .. it is part
of the Asian and Pacific Islander experience of .. **high iron
related disease" ..

http://www.healthyeatingclub.org/APJCN/loginpast.htm

Asia Pacific Journal of Clinical Nutrition

-----------------------------------------------------------

Asian: A person having origins in any of the original
peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian
subcontinet, including for example Cambodia, China, India,
Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands,
Thailand, and Vietnam.

http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.filipino/msg/e1f6f8-
a5444b51b8

Who loves ya. Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[Ironjustic]

>> On Sep 28, 6:23 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com"
>> <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: Because .. ? .. you are
>> **obviously** going to lie about .. the area .. Aren't ..
>> you .. <<

They kill the babies .. ? You and your .. cronies would
fit right ..
in ..

Oh .. yeah .. it IS you that kills their babies .. isn't it ..

------------------------------------------------
>>On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
The north of india with most meat eaters has lower rate then
the south of india with more non meat eaters.<<

http://www.rupfor.org/news_archive.asp?imageField3.x=1&mnum=1-
1&ynum=2006

five southern States of Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Andhra
Pradesh and Puducherry

http://www.impactchildren.org/About_Thalassemia.htm

Who among Indians are at risk?

In certain Indian communities like Assamese, Bengali,
Gujarati, Maharashtrian, Marwari and Punjabi, as high as 25%
of the population are silent carriers of a defective
Thalassemia gene and while mildly anemic are not otherwise
affected by the illness.

>>On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
India has highest diabetes and associated heart disease etc.
related rate. <<

Nice to hear .. seeing they have .. high iron levels .. higher
than .. anyone ..

>> On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
India has low iron. <<

???

That has got to be .. wrong .. where DID you get that .. from
.. ?

http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/india/india-political-map.htm

This is a .. map .. see if your thalassemia .. trait .. runs
through this .. area .. the area .. YOU point to as the
highest rate of diabetes ..

Seeee .. if it .. does ..

io .. does .. southern India to Burma and Beyond ..
coincidentally .. the one's with the HIGHEST iron levels
.. along with their counter parts the Pacific Islanders
which include .. Burma .. then down to Malaysia .. and
Vietnam .. etc, etc, etc ..

Sooo .. one seems to run into this .. thalassemia trait ..
alot .. WITH .. "minor anemia" .. and thalassemia IS
associated to diabetes .. HIGHLY .. related TO .. diabetes ..

Did you KNOW that .. ?

Heh .. heh ..

>> On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:The rate
in india in recent decades has gone up, <<

It has .. ? .. I wonder .. why .. ?

Refined carbs .. ?

Iron in the flour and foods .. ?

>>On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote: the intake of
>>meat has not
accordingly while other known diabetes risk factors have
increased. <<

It hasn't .. ?

Refined carbs .. ?

Iron in the flour and foods .. ?

Who loves ya. Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

>
> Unless .. "India" .. ISN'T part of the .. "Indian
> subcontinent" .. then buddy .. you are in **trouble** ..
>
> India appearing IN this .. journal .. means .. ? .. it is
> part of the Asian and Pacific Islander experience of ..
> **high iron related disease" ..
>
> http://www.healthyeatingclub.org/APJCN/loginpast.htm
>
> Asia Pacific Journal of Clinical Nutrition
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Asian: A person having origins in any of the original
> peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian
> subcontinet, including for example Cambodia, China, India,
> Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands,
> Thailand, and Vietnam.
>
> http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.filipino/msg/e1f6-
> f8a5444b51b8
>
> Who loves ya. Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
>
> Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[Ironjustic]

>> On Sep 28, 9:40 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com"
>> <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: thalassemia IS associated to
>> diabetes ..
HIGHLY .. related TO .. diabetes .. <<

Yep .. there it .. is ..

There's your .. diabetes ..

Now what are you going to do with it .. ?

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/8/1480

Individuals with thalassemia minor had insulin resistance, An
increased iron turnover from low-grade hemolysis of microcytic
erythrocytes may lead to hepatic damage and increased
oxidative stress, both of which can contribute to insulin
resistance Intriguingly, hepatic iron overload is associated
with some features of the metabolic syndrome .

Who loves ya. Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> >> On Sep 28, 6:23 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com"
> >> <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: Because .. ? .. you are
> >> **obviously** going to lie about .. the area .. Aren't ..
> >> you .. <<
>
> They kill the babies .. ? You and your .. cronies would fit
> right ..
> in ..
>
> Oh .. yeah .. it IS you that kills their babies ..
> isn't it ..
>
> ------------------------------------------------>>On Aug 14,
> 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
>
> The north of india with most meat eaters has lower rate then
> the south of india with more non meat eaters.<<
>
> http://www.rupfor.org/news_archive.asp?imageField3.x=1&mnum-
> =11&ynum=2006
>
> five southern States of Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Kerala,
> Andhra Pradesh and Puducherry
>
> http://www.impactchildren.org/About_Thalassemia.htm
>
> Who among Indians are at risk?
>
> In certain Indian communities like Assamese, Bengali,
> Gujarati, Maharashtrian, Marwari and Punjabi, as high as 25%
> of the population are silent carriers of a defective
> Thalassemia gene and while mildly anemic are not otherwise
> affected by the illness.
>
> >>On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
>
> India has highest diabetes and associated heart disease etc.
> related rate. <<
>
> Nice to hear .. seeing they have .. high iron levels ..
> higher than .. anyone ..
>
> >> On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
>
> India has low iron. <<
>
> ???
>
> That has got to be .. wrong .. where DID you get that ..
> from .. ?
>
> http://www.mapsofindia.com/maps/india/india-political-
> -map.htm
>
> This is a .. map .. see if your thalassemia .. trait .. runs
> through this .. area .. the area .. YOU point to as the
> highest rate of diabetes ..
>
> Seeee .. if it .. does ..
>
> It .. does .. southern India to Burma and Beyond ..
> coincidentally .. the one's with the HIGHEST iron levels
> .. along with their counter parts the Pacific Islanders
> which include .. Burma .. then down to Malaysia .. and
> Vietnam .. etc, etc, etc ..
>
> Sooo .. one seems to run into this .. thalassemia trait
> .. alot .. WITH .. "minor anemia" .. and thalassemia IS
> associated to diabetes .. HIGHLY .. related TO ..
> diabetes ..
>
> Did you KNOW that .. ?
>
> Heh .. heh ..
>
> >> On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote:The rate
>
> in india in recent decades has gone up, <<
>
> It has .. ? .. I wonder .. why .. ?
>
> Refined carbs .. ?
>
> Iron in the flour and foods .. ?
>
> >>On Aug 14, 1:56 pm, ferr...@paris.com wrote: the intake of
> >>meat has not
>
> accordingly while other known diabetes risk factors have
> increased. <<
>
> It hasn't .. ?
>
> Refined carbs .. ?
>
> Iron in the flour and foods .. ?
>
> Who loves ya. Tom
>
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
>
> Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
>
>
>
>
>
> > Unless .. "India" .. ISN'T part of the .. "Indian
> > subcontinent" .. then buddy .. you are in **trouble** ..
>
> > India appearing IN this .. journal .. means .. ? .. it is
> > part of the Asian and Pacific Islander experience of ..
> > **high iron related disease" ..
>
> >http://www.healthyeatingclub.org/APJCN/loginpast.htm
>
> > Asia Pacific Journal of Clinical Nutrition
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > ------
>
> > Asian: A person having origins in any of the original
> > peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian
> > subcontinet, including for example Cambodia, China, India,
> > Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands,
> > Thailand, and Vietnam.
>
> >http://groups.google.ca/group/soc.culture.filipino/msg/e1f-
> >6f8a5444b51b8
>
> > Who loves ya. Tom
>
> > Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
>
> > Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
>
> > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk- Hide quoted
> > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[ferrous]

India provides an interesting place to test the iron causes
all disease because people eat meat notion.

People there on average have lower iron levels then do people
in europe. Thus we can take a particular disease and see in
which area is the rate of it higher. In many cases looked at
so far india with the lower iron levels has the higher rate of
various diseases. In this example lupus is at a higher rate in
india then in europe.

This is reverse the case if the iron notion were valid. We can
use these natural expirments to test the notion.

When the iron notion is asserted as a universal thing then it
takes only one example to discard it as being invalid. In the
original report of highr rate of lupus in india with low iron
there were listed about a dozen other diseases also. The
conclusion is obvious.

[Ironjustic]

>> On Sep 29, 7:14 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
In the original report of highr rate of lupus in india with
low iron <<

Low iron .. ?

I think I already explained that to you ..

There is .. no low iron ..

You have the southerners with genetic iron overload /
thalassemia / "surprisingly the highest iron levels of anyone"
.. and you have the Northerners .. as you SPECIFICALLY pointed
out .. big meat eaters .. soooo .. those guys for SURE aren't
iron deficient .. soooo .. **obviouslyyyyyy** .. nobody is
iron deficient ..

I think I already showed you another study which
**specifically** showed the iron deficiency COMMONLY
recognized by you and your cronies WASN'T / is not .. iron
deficiency .. at .. all ..

Didn't .. I .. ?

Can you recall that .. one .. ?

"No iron deficiency as we were wrong .. before .." ..

Can you recall that .. one .. ?

Do I have to show it to you .. again .. ?

What the hey ..

"The current low anemia prevalence " http://tinyurl.com/2qvopl
{This says low anemia / no anemia / no iron deficiency]

You understand .. ? Is that .. hard .. ?

"Asians have the highest iron levels of anyone .. anywhere ..
and Asians are found on the subcontinent of .. INDIA " ..

They / Asians .. have a problem with their diabetes ..

You don't understand .. it says .. "Asians have the highest
iron levels .." .. ?

Here let me snip it for ya ..
--------------------------------------------------------
----------
"Asians and Pacific Islanders had the highest blood iron
levels" http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/studie-
n/bericht-43700....
--------------------------------------------------------------
---

>> On Sep 29, 7:14 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote:
there were listed about a dozen other diseases also. The
conclusion is obvious. <<

All .. disease .. remember ..

Retention is a sign of intelligence ..

I bet you .. didn't .. write that down .. did ya ..

Who loves ya. Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[ferrous]

"I think I already explained that to you ..

There is .. no low iron ..

You have the southerners with genetic iron overload /
thalassemia /"

Ah, now I understand the logical source of your delusion on
this point.

The abstract you are mentioning was about only those who have
that genetic disorder. It did not say that all or even most
have the disorder. In all places in the world it is a rather
uncommon disorder.

That leaves us with the billions who don't have it, including
the over 1 billion people of india.

Those normal indians have low iron as compared to let us say
normal people in england who have higher iron. In past I
presented a study showing this, which you promptly ignored of
course. But the rate of various diseases in india is higher
then that in england. This is oppisite what the iron causes
all disease because people eat meat notion predicts. This
natural experiment excludes the iron notion as being valid and
is thus excluded.

This is a perfect example of a disorder you display often.
Using information which you do not understand at a fundimental
level you see in it what you are desperate to find. The
abstract was about those who have the iron disorder, it was
not about most people who do not have it.

Disorders of cognitive skills is one symtom of low iron.

[Ironjustic]

>> On Sep 29, 11:39 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote: That
>> leaves us with the billions who don't have it, including
>> the over 1
billion people of india. <<

It .. **doesn't** .. "leave us with the billions of Indians
who don't have it" ..

Don't have it .. ?

They ALL have it ..

"Asians and Pacific Islanders have the highest of all" ..

THAT **includes** the .. Indians ..

Soooo .. that is **no** .. low iron / prevalence of low iron
is .. low / no anemia / no iron deficiency ..

>> On Sep 29, 11:39 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote: Those normal
>> indians have low iron as compared to let us say normal
people in england who have higher iron.<<

????

How are you going to get .. low iron in Indians .. ?

They have .. high .. iron ..

The only way to GET a .. low iron Indian .. is by ..
bleeding him ..

>> On Sep 29, 11:39 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote: In past I
>> presented a study
> showing this, which you promptly ignored of course. <<

Of course I am going to actually READ a study placed by
.. YOU .. ?

By .. YOU .. ??

That would be .. **stupid** .. wouldn't it .. AND a waste of
time .. because your studies have been .. **doctored** ..
falsified ..

Isn't that .. right ..

Now how can a person .. trust .. ANY of your studies ..

When you .. doctor / falsify .. them ..

>> On Sep 29, 11:39 am, ferr...@paris.com wrote: But the
>> rate of
various diseases in india is higher then that in england. <<

That is good because . they / Asians / Indians .. have HIGH
iron levels {higher than anyone] .. and iron **causes**
diabetes .. hepatitis .. malaria .. etc , etc , .. etc .. ALL
disease .. sooo one can EXPECT a high .. HIGH **rate** OF
**disease** IN people .. with .. a HIGH iron .. level.

That is .. logical .. isn't it .. ?

Yep ..

Try to **use** .. logic and reason ..

Write that down .. quickly .. before you forget ..

Who loves ya. Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[Medusa]

On Sep 30, 7:06 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com"
<ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>On Sep 30, 4:47 pm, Medusa <Medusa4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Most have him killfiled. For **obvious** reasons. <<
>
> How DOES that killfile work for you .. up close and personal
> .. pussy ..
>
> How does it ..

Now you have shown yourself for what you are: a cretin.

Medusa

AA #2281