Who is willing to do the "Supersize Me" experiment with fish oil?

[monty1945]

Plenty of people here advocate it, yet how much are they
willing to take? Some of these people refuse to acknowledge
the high toxicity of this substance, so I'd like to see them
step up and drink a couple of shot glasses full of this stuff
each day for three months in a row, while being monitored by a
physician, as Spurlock was in his film. If you saw that film,
you saw how his health deteriorated while on a fast food
restaurant's diet.

I've already done my version of this experiment, with
saturated fatty acids and not fish oil, and seen only
incredible benefits, and I started it in 2001, continuing
uninterrupted to the present day.

[Miko]

On Sep 25, 12:01 am, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> Plenty of people here advocate it, yet how much are they
> willing to take? Some of these people refuse to acknowledge
> the high toxicity of this substance, so I'd like to see them
> step up and drink a couple of shot glasses full of this
> stuff each day for three months in a row, while being
> monitored by a physician, as Spurlock was in his film. If
> you saw that film, you saw how his health deteriorated while
> on a fast food restaurant's diet.
>
> I've already done my version of this experiment, with
> saturated fatty acids and not fish oil, and seen only
> incredible benefits, and I started it in 2001, continuing
> uninterrupted to the present day.

ummmmm. i've been taking cod liver oil for ,,,almost 20 years?
it's mainly for my arthritic condition. heard about it on a
radio health program with dale alexander as guest, and he was
mentioning it's benefits in fighting arthritis. it is a marvel
and i cannot go anywhere without it....long long before
condroitine/glucosimine.

anywho, i have read that the oil, vitamin A to be specific, is
toxic in large amounts over a long period of time, as A is
cumulative. iirc, it was something like 100,000 units per day
for a year. i'm not one to challenge this since what i
take(1TB per day) eliminates my arthritis.

[Ron Peters]

On Sep 24, 9:01 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> Plenty of people here advocate it, yet how much are they
> willing to take? Some of these people refuse to acknowledge
> the high toxicity of this substance, so I'd like to see them
> step up and drink a couple of shot glasses full of this
> stuff each day for three months in a row, while being
> monitored by a physician, as Spurlock was in his film. If
> you saw that film, you saw how his health deteriorated while
> on a fast food restaurant's diet.

> I've already done my version of this experiment, with
> saturated fatty acids and not fish oil, and seen only
> incredible benefits, and I started it in 2001, continuing
> uninterrupted to the present day.

Two shot glasses is two ounces of fat which would have 500
Calories. Do you eat that much coconut oil?

--
Ron

[Tc]

On Sep 24, 11:01 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> Plenty of people here advocate it, yet how much are they
> willing to take? Some of these people refuse to acknowledge
> the high toxicity of this substance, so I'd like to see them
> step up and drink a couple of shot glasses full of this
> stuff each day for three months in a row, while being
> monitored by a physician, as Spurlock was in his film. If
> you saw that film, you saw how his health deteriorated while
> on a fast food restaurant's diet.
>
> I've already done my version of this experiment, with
> saturated fatty acids and not fish oil, and seen only
> incredible benefits, and I started it in 2001, continuing
> uninterrupted to the present day.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that if you replicate the supersize
me stunt while not drinking any of the soda and drinking water
instead, you probably will not see anywhere near the weight
gain and health loss seen in the movie.

[Taka]

miko wrote:

> ummmmm. i've been taking cod liver oil for ,,,almost 20
> years? it's mainly for my arthritic condition. heard about
> it on a radio health program with dale alexander as guest,
> and he was mentioning it's benefits in fighting arthritis.
> it is a marvel and i cannot go anywhere without it....long
> long before condroitine/glucosimine.
>
> anywho, i have read that the oil, vitamin A to be specific,
> is toxic in large amounts over a long period of time, as A
> is cumulative. iirc, it was something like 100,000 units per
> day for a year. i'm not one to challenge this since what i
> take(1TB per day) eliminates my arthritis.

Haven't you thought that your arthritis may be caused by the
lack of vitamin D which you are getting from the oil? It
eliminates the mycoplasmas and related bugs (TBC). I would
rather get on the sun and eat some butter for VitA than
ingesting such highly unstable compound. Also if your
arthritis is due to arachidonic acid overload you had better
to remove omega-6 from your diet and get some gentle
exercise rather than inhibiting the natural body healing
processes with omega-3. And if you have ligament laxity
(what leads to arthritis) get prolotherapy if you are so
lucky to live in the USA.

[Taka]

On Sep 26, 12:28 am, TC <tunder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'll bet dollars to donuts that if you replicate the
> supersize me stunt while not drinking any of the soda and
> drinking water instead, you probably will not see anywhere
> near the weight gain and health loss seen in the movie.

and if you add some serious exercise such as weight training
to "burn" the excessive arachidonic acid and keep other
essential micronutrients sufficient you may end up even
healthier than at the start ... But I am not sure about the
long term effects of the trans fats in the fries.

[ferrous]

Didn't the eskimos already do this experiment?

[Tc]

On Sep 25, 11:13 am, Taka <taka0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 12:28 am, TC <tunder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'll bet dollars to donuts that if you replicate the
> > supersize me stunt while not drinking any of the soda and
> > drinking water instead, you probably will not see anywhere
> > near the weight gain and health loss seen in the movie.
>
> and if you add some serious exercise such as weight training
> to "burn" the excessive arachidonic acid and keep other
> essential micronutrients sufficient you may end up even
> healthier than at the start ... But I am not sure about the
> long term effects of the trans fats in the fries.

You still have the refined flour and the added sugars in the
bun and the condiments, then the glyceamic impact of the fries
and then the rancid overly processed crap vegetable oil it is
fried in.....

But I am willing to wager that the high fructose corn syrup in
the half gallon containers had a greater impact than the
burger and fries.

[Tim]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:26:37 -0700, miko
<bruin70@mail.com> wrote:

>On Sep 25, 12:01 am, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
>> Plenty of people here advocate it, yet how much are they
>> willing to take? Some of these people refuse to acknowledge
>> the high toxicity of this substance, so I'd like to see
>> them step up and drink a couple of shot glasses full of
>> this stuff each day for three months in a row, while being
>> monitored by a physician, as Spurlock was in his film. If
>> you saw that film, you saw how his health deteriorated
>> while on a fast food restaurant's diet.

Why don't you drink 6 gallons of water a day for three months
in a row so we can rule out water as safe to consume.

[monty1945]

Well, they were studied, and found to rarely live far beyond
the age of 40, often dying of various bleeding disorders.

As Ray Peat pointed out: QUOTE: An oil researcher spent 100
days eating what he considered to be the Eskimo diet, seal
blubber and mackerel paste. He observed that his blood lipid
peroxides (measured as malondialdehyde, MDA) reached a level
50 times higher than normal, and although MDA is teratogenic,
he said he wasn't worried about fathering deformed children,
because his sperm count had gone to zero." Original source:
Sinclair, H., Prog. Lipid Res. 25: 667-72, "History of EFA &
their prostanoids: some personal reminiscences." UNQUOTE.

As for my diet, the issue is saturated fatty acids, not
coconut oil specifically. Could Ron Peterson not have
known this?

He has tried to make it seem that saturated fatty acids are
very dangerous. If this is true, I would have seen the effects
by now, or be dead, as Spurlock likely would've been if he
continued the film diet for a few years. I would be more than
willing to consume 500 calories a day from saturated fatty
acids, so long as there were few UFAs and hardly any PUFAs
(nor oxidized cholesterol). Thus, the fish oil advocates
appear to be saying that 500 calories from fish oil per day
are very dangerous, and I know 500 calories of SFAs per day
(in the context of my kind of diet, not one rich in all types
of FAs) is not. Why is the public not hearing about this, but
rather being told of the horrors of "saturated fat" and the
"benefits" of fish oil? Aren't any "experts" concerned about
people thinking fish oil is "all good," and consuming several
hundred calories of it per day? Why are they unable to see the
chart in the CNN special for what it is, that is, a call to
get back to very low PUFA consumption of all types?

People like Peterson seem to be so deluded by visions of fish
oil that they can't perceive the glaring contradictions and
also the potential public health threats in what they are
recommending.

[Ron Peters]

On Sep 25, 9:45 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:

> As for my diet, the issue is saturated fatty acids, not
> coconut oil specifically. Could Ron Peterson not have
> known this?

You continually quote shills for the coconut industry. What is
the source of saturated fat in your diet and how do you
exclude MUFA and PUFA?

> He has tried to make it seem that saturated fatty acids are
> very dangerous.

The body is capable of synthesizing saturated fatty acids, and
most sources of fat include saturated fatty acids, so why is
it necessary to increase the intake of saturated fatty acids?

--
Ron

[Taka]

On Sep 27, 1:51 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Sep 25, 9:45 pm, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
>
> > As for my diet, the issue is saturated fatty acids, not
> > coconut oil specifically. Could Ron Peterson not have
> > known this?
>
> You continually quote shills for the coconut industry. What
> is the source of saturated fat in your diet and how do you
> exclude MUFA and PUFA?

Butter is one source in his diet which is more saturated than
e.g. today's lard. It's impossible to completely exclude MUFAs
and PUFAs but reducing them to minimum helps a lot.

> > He has tried to make it seem that saturated fatty acids
> > are very dangerous.
>
> The body is capable of synthesizing saturated fatty acids,
> and most sources of fat include saturated fatty acids, so
> why is it necessary to increase the intake of saturated
> fatty acids?

And how would you get the fat soluble vitamins which are truly
essential?

> --
> Ron
Taka

[Ron Peters]

On Sep 27, 10:17 am, Taka <taka0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 27, 1:51 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com>
> wrote:

> > You continually quote shills for the coconut industry.
> > What is the source of saturated fat in your diet and how
> > do you exclude MUFA and PUFA?

> Butter is one source in his diet which is more saturated
> than e.g. today's lard. It's impossible to completely
> exclude MUFAs and PUFAs but reducing them to minimum
> helps a lot.

What study shows that lowering MUFAs and PUFAs improves
ones health?

> > The body is capable of synthesizing saturated fatty acids,
> > and most sources of fat include saturated fatty acids, so
> > why is it necessary to increase the intake of saturated
> > fatty acids?

> And how would you get the fat soluble vitamins which are
> truly essential?

Vegetable oils are a good carrier for fat soluble vitamins.

--
Ron

[Miko]

On Sep 25, 12:04 pm, Taka <taka0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> miko wrote:
> > ummmmm. i've been taking cod liver oil for ,,,almost 20
> > years? it's mainly for my arthritic condition. heard about
> > it on a radio health program with dale alexander as guest,
> > and he was mentioning it's benefits in fighting arthritis.
> > it is a marvel and i cannot go anywhere without it....long
> > long before condroitine/glucosimine.
>
> > anywho, i have read that the oil, vitamin A to be
> > specific, is toxic in large amounts over a long period of
> > time, as A is cumulative. iirc, it was something like
> > 100,000 units per day for a year. i'm not one to challenge
> > this since what i take(1TB per day) eliminates my
> > arthritis.
>
> Haven't you thought that your arthritis may be caused by the
> lack of vitamin D which you are getting from the oil? It
> eliminates the mycoplasmas and related bugs (TBC). I would
> rather get on the sun and eat some butter for VitA than
> ingesting such highly unstable compound. Also if your
> arthritis is due to arachidonic acid overload you had better
> to remove omega-6 from your diet and get some gentle
> exercise rather than inhibiting the natural body healing
> processes with omega-3. And if you have ligament laxity
> (what leads to arthritis) get prolotherapy if you are so
> lucky to live in the USA.

well,,,not knowing ANYTHING about that of which you speak,
i'll read up on it. i have no idea what you're talking about.
i have never even had a medical exam! allz i know is, i had
pain, i heard the radio program, i tried the product(cod liver
oil),,,,pain gone. i stop taking "clo", pain is back with a
vengeance in less than two weeks.

i eat well.....do you have any non technical links?

[Phas]

On Sep 25, 12:26 am, miko <brui...@mail.com> wrote:

> anywho, i have read that the oil, vitamin A to be specific,
> is toxic in large amounts over a long period of time, as A
> is cumulative. iirc, it was something like 100,000 units per
> day for a year. i'm not one to challenge this since what i
> take(1TB per day) eliminates my arthritis.

Excuse me, what kind of arthritis are you suffering from,
rheumatoid arthritis or osteoarthritis ?

[monty1945]

"What study shows that lowering MUFAs and PUFAs improves
ones health?"

This is a good point, though not in the way Ron thinks. That
is, because "saturated fat" is considered so unhealthy, you
won't find studies of people like myself compared to people on
a PUFA-rich diet. Again, I would be willing to participate,
but only if all assumptions are "off the table." As in the
study I cited of the Asian peoples on a coconut-rich diet,
their cholesterol levels would be considered "high" in the
USA, for example, but they had no heart disease problem. And
of course there are other things you can eat that are not very
rich in PUFAs, but are not healthy. For example, you could eat
a sugar-rich diet, with not enough protein, and your insulin
levels getting spiked every few hours. You might very well
find yourself with type II diabetes on such a diet. In
science, Ron, everything must be specified, or else there is
nonsense like the "saturated fat" phrase, which has no precise
meaning and therefore cannot be tested scientifically, even if
all other factors were controlled (which is not easy in
dietary studies). Look at the chart in the CNN "America's
Killer Diet" special. There is a spike that goes from the
early 1960s to the present, and that does not even include
canola oil, which would also look similar on such a chart (in
terms of the spike). Look at recipes in cookbooks before 1960
and see how much sugar and fats rich in SFAs that were used.
Now if you can just add two plus two, I think you will realize
what the problem is. How can you be so committed to your pet
notions that these obvious and undeniable facts don't
penetrate your mind?

[Ron Peters]

On Sep 30, 8:45 am, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:

> Vegetable oils are a good carrier for fat soluble vitamins.

Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 2002 Jan;72(1):53-9. indicates that fat
intake is needed for absorption of fat soluble vitamins,

"In this review the effects of lifestyle factors, especially
alcohol consumption, on vitamin bioavailability are summarized
and discussed. Alcohol effects are clearly dose-dependent.
Excessive chronic alcohol intake is generally associated with
vitamin deficiency (especially folate, thiamine, and vitamin
B6) due to malnutrition, malabsorption, and ethanol toxicity.
Effects of moderate alcohol use are mainly explained by a
lower vitamin intake. In the case of vitamin A and beta-
carotene, effects on post-absorptive (lipoprotein) metabolism
have been demonstrated. In one diet-controlled crossover
study, alcohol consumption resulted in an increase in the
plasma vitamin B6 (PLP) content, especially after beer
consumption (containing vitamin B6), but also after wine and
spirit consumption (not containing vitamin
B6). Smoking is also associated with a lower dietary vitamin
intake. In the case of vitamin C, B12, folate, and
beta-carotene, evidence has been presented for effects on
postabsorptive metabolism, due to smoke- induced oxidative
stress and/or vitamin inactivation. For vitamin E a direct
effect of smoking on absorption has been demonstrated.
There is no convincing evidence that low-fat diets
negatively affect fat- soluble vitamin absorption, but
cholesterol-lowering compounds (diets), or unabsorbable fat
substitutes, may do so. Vitamin bioavailability may be
compromised from certain vegetables (particularly raw),
and/or from high-fiber foods, because of limited digestion
and inefficient release of vitamins from the food matrix."

--
Ron

[Ron Peters]

On Oct 5, 12:06 am, monty1...@lycos.com wrote:
> Ron wrote: "What study shows that lowering MUFAs and PUFAs
> improves ones health?"

> Now if you can just add two plus two, I think you will
> realize what the problem is. How can you be so committed to
> your pet notions that these obvious and undeniable facts
> don't penetrate your mind?

I'm looking at a basis of nutrients (including fiber, etc) and
toxic substances that have optimal intakes. Toxic substances
should of course be at zero. But the other nutrients should
improve health up to a certain level and then cause
deterioration to health when exceeded.

You seem to be saying that omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids
are toxic, which seems to me in disagreement with most
research studies.

You don't address MUFA as being a nutrient or toxic.

You seem to think that the SFA (lauric acid) is healthy but
don't address how much is optimal or the other saturated
fatty acids.

--
Ron

[Taka]

On Oct 6, 12:53 am, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Sep 30, 8:45 am, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Vegetable oils are a good carrier for fat soluble
> > vitamins.

Organic butter is even better and the vitamins are already in
it. Moreover, they are not used up during the oxidation of the
carrier because it is not PUFA-based ...

Taka

[Ron Peters]

On Oct 5, 10:53 am, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:

> Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 2002 Jan;72(1):53-9. indicates that
> fat intake is needed for absorption of fat soluble vitamins,

A typo on my part. I meant to say that fat intake isn't needed
for absorption of fat soluble vitamins.

> "In this review the effects of lifestyle factors, especially
> alcohol consumption, on vitamin bioavailability are
> summarized and discussed. Alcohol effects are clearly
> dose-dependent. Excessive chronic alcohol intake is
> generally associated with vitamin deficiency (especially
> folate, thiamine, and vitamin B6) due to malnutrition,
> malabsorption, and ethanol toxicity. Effects of moderate
> alcohol use are mainly explained by a lower vitamin intake.
> In the case of vitamin A and beta- carotene, effects on
> post-absorptive (lipoprotein) metabolism have been
> demonstrated. In one diet-controlled crossover study,
> alcohol consumption resulted in an increase in the plasma
> vitamin B6 (PLP) content, especially after beer consumption
> (containing vitamin B6), but also after wine and spirit
> consumption (not containing vitamin
> B6). Smoking is also associated with a lower dietary vitamin
> intake. In the case of vitamin C, B12, folate, and
> beta-carotene, evidence has been presented for effects on
> postabsorptive metabolism, due to smoke- induced
> oxidative stress and/or vitamin inactivation. For vitamin
> E a direct effect of smoking on absorption has been
> demonstrated.

> There is no convincing evidence that low-fat diets
> negatively affect fat- soluble vitamin absorption,

> but cholesterol-lowering compounds (diets), or unabsorbable
> fat substitutes, may do so. Vitamin bioavailability may be
> compromised from certain vegetables (particularly raw),
> and/or from high-fiber foods, because of limited digestion
> and inefficient release of vitamins from the food matrix."

--
Ron