Stillman's for LC restart?

[scthgharpy]

Hey all. Been unable to get back entirely on the wagon since vacation, and have resolved to start back up after labor day, and all the carby stuff is out of the house now that DSC are back in seattle after summer visit. I just cant bring myself to throw out expensive stuff like lunch meat, cottage cheese and crispy chicken strips. So, we will get it used up over the weekend.

Im considering a drastic approach to kick start me back on program, and someone mentioned stillmans-I gotta say, this is a really strange program. no veggies whatsoever, but low fat cottage cheese is ok? Whats the idea behind this?

Also, Im curious as to anyones experience with it, and what they feel the science behind it is. I can do anything for two weeks, but it just seems strange to limit fats.

[ElleH]

Hey all. Been unable to get back entirely on the wagon since vacation, and have resolved to start back up after labor day, and all the carby stuff is out of the house now that DSC are back in seattle after summer visit. I just cant bring myself to throw out expensive stuff like lunch meat, cottage cheese and crispy chicken strips. So, we will get it used up over the weekend.

Im considering a drastic approach to kick start me back on program, and someone mentioned stillmans-I gotta say, this is a really strange program. no veggies whatsoever, but low fat cottage cheese is ok? Whats the idea behind this?

Also, Im curious as to anyones experience with it, and what they feel the science behind it is. I can do anything for two weeks, but it just seems strange to limit fats.

My advice to kickstart is to do very high-fat, high-protein, very low-carb Atkins induction. This approach has NEVER failed me! After a day or so the appetite suppression kicks in and the weight starts dropping the first day.

I don't know anything about Stillmans--I don't even know what it is! But your description doesn't sound very pleasant! I prefer "pleasant" when I'm getting back on track! ;) Good luck and keep us posted!

Your description makes it sound like a low-fat protein-only diet? Sounds a lot like Kimkins? Anyway, my understanding is that the idea behind it is that if no carbs and present, and no fat is present, you're forced into burning your own fat for energy. In theory, it actually makes a lot of sense, but in practice, I'm not sure that's what happens in the reality of the human body. I have lost A LOT of body fat without limiting fat at all...and it's been a very 'pleasant' ride!

[scthgharpy]

Reading an old thread, I ran across this post from doreen back in 2005, thank you ma'am

'
The thing is, Stillman's books were published in the late 60's ... long before nutrition science had uncovered the essential roles of fat, metabolism, and Insulin Resistance. In his day, the calorie was all that mattered, and the less you ate of them the better! For both the QWL and I-O diets, the forever maintenance plan after you'd reached your goal weight was low calorie and low fat. Stillman's goal was simply to get the weight off as quickly as possible, no matter what. His view was that being fat was the worst possible thing for your health, and you must get the weight off by whatever means .. including periods of semi-starvation, lettuce-only, 300-calories a day etc etc.
'

interesting...

[ElleH]

Omg!

You've answered your own question...ABORT ABORT!

:lol:

[pennink]

but omg, does Stillmans get weight off of you.

Atkins 72 for a week or two (no more) on the induction works amazing too, much less harsh.

[scthgharpy]

No kidding. Some people really swear by it tho...Im blowing through this old thread, and no one is discussing how it works, but daily thrills and frustration over what the scale says.

If stillmans was around before Dr Atkins, I wonder what he had to say about the uber low fat approach to it. Why does Atkins like fat? Im reading what seems to be conjecture, that you need to eat fat to burn fat, but nothing that appears scientific. Other than not feeling hungry, what purpose does it serve?

Dang, and I was looking forward to using some of that big tub of cottage cheese in a "legal" diet approach. Thats another curious bit about stillmans-no veggies, but LF cottage cheese is permitted.

The good news is I havent gone TOO crazy, so the hunger hasnt bounced back, but I sure am feeling the yoyo emotions and fatigue. Looking really forward to a quiet house all weekend, and clean induction on Tuesday!

[pennink]

Atkins 72 'induction' uses a ton of cottage cheese, and that's what was originally in Revolution Rolls.

[scthgharpy]

See, when Im LC I HAVE to stay at 20 g/day or I dont lose. I cant go up the owl rungs, its 20 g through veggies and super hard cheese and nuts alone and thats it. Thats why Im kind of looking for a place to go when a kick start is needed. Add in LF, Zero carb, All fat, what? Seems everyone has some combination of foods that claims miracle weight loss. But who can back it up with science?

stillmans takes it off quick, sure, but how? At what risk?

[pennink]

See, when Im LC I HAVE to stay at 20 g/day or I dont lose. I cant go up the owl rungs, its 20 g through veggies and super hard cheese and nuts alone and thats it. Thats why Im kind of looking for a place to go when a kick start is needed. Add in LF, Zero carb, All fat, what? Seems everyone has some combination of foods that claims miracle weight loss. But who can back it up with science?

stillmans takes it off quick, sure, but how? At what risk?

I'm exactly the same. I can't eat more than 20 (real, not net) carbs or I stall. Dang it.

I did Stillmans a while ago, like 2 months, and I think I lost about 22 pounds or so in 2 weeks. No lie. I was SEVERELY constipated though, but a MoM and a return to Atkins 72 with some fats and I'm much better.

[scthgharpy]

Wow. 22 lbs in 2 weeks. Sounds like a good kick start to me! Good for you! Ive got a jar of magnesium tabs sitting right here for just such emergencies, ha.

How did you feel on it, other than backed up?

Is the idea that, if dietary fat isnt coming in, your bod has to use more of your body fat as fuel?

And if I do it, Ill have to ditch my morning coconut oil. hmm. ive gotten used to the heat flush.

[pennink]

I have no idea his idea behind it... I understand it's zero carbs and low calorie (basically Kimkins) and it's HARD!!!!!!

I moaned over how hard it was. The constipation didn't kick in until the weekend (talk about moaning). I guess I like fat... oh, and cheese... i learned though, to limit cheese, it's not a big cheese freeforall with any woe... (sniff sniff)

[scthgharpy]

yah, I noticed that, but I imagine calling herself "kimkins" was cuter and more attractive than calling herself "Kimsmans". I still dont now how that broad got away with collecting money from people. Goes to show how desperate people are. And theres one born every minute, I guess.

See, thats the thing...how can you detox and move stuff out, if..nothings moving? Where does all this weight (presumably, body fat) go?

[alarionov]

I tried Stillmans to do the same thing to get into ketosis quick and it worked but I only lasted 3 days. Really Hard to do

[Dar]

Stillman's Quick Weight Loss (water) diet was the first low carb diet I ever tried. I still have the book.

The diet is basically all protein, meat, fish, poultry, skim milk cheeses only, eggs and regular creamed cottage cheese. There is no fat allowed in cooking and all fat must be removed before eating. There are no vegetables or fruits allowed and very few condiments, no sugar of course.

Spices may be used in moderation. You must drink a 1/2 a glass of water every waking hour to flush out impurities and keep your breath clean. The cottage cheese is limited to a couple of tablespoons per meal. Small meals throughout the day are recommended.

The diet used to allow diet soda's but the new diet soda's with the new sweeteners will stop the weight loss dead.

I think that's the jist of it. When I was younger I found the diet very easy to go on. I lost more than 8 pounds the first week on the diet, at that time I was only about 25 pounds overweight. The book claims that you will average 5 pounds lost each week.

If you can stick to it you will lose and lose quickly. Dr. Stillman recommends that you use the diet for 3 weeks and then go on "Stay Slim Eating" for a couple of weeks and then go back on QWL. The Stay Slim Eating is basically regular low calorie dieting, 1200 calories for women and 1500 calories for men.

If you want more details let me know. I'll pull out the book and type something up.

[scthgharpy]

Well, I found how to do it. But I dont understand WHY it works. Dr Atkins definately wanted fat involved in a LC woe. Is stillmans dangerous, then?

[pennink]

Not if you don't stay on it long... we do need fibre after all, vitamins, etc. and fats help your body absorb vitamins and keep you from getting gallstones...

you do get fat from the meat. Even lean meat has fat.

Fat, like on any diet, is exhaled and peed away. That's where it goes no matter what diet you're on.

[Dar]

It works because like Atkins it is a low carb diet, unlike Atkins and because of the lack of fat it is also a very low calorie diet.

If I remember correctly Stillman's diet was originally based on a diet used for, I want to say type II diabetics or maybe it was heart patients, to get the weight off them quickly.

Stillman does seriously recommend daily vitamins while on the diet. The diet was never intended to be a lifetime eating plan. It's was made to get the weight off you fast and then you were supposed to follow a low calorie eating plan to stay slim.

IMO I don't think it's dangerous if used to jump start your diet or to jump start a stall. I wouldn't try to make it my lifetime eating plan though.

[MandalayVA]

If I remember correctly Stillman's diet was originally based on a diet used for, I want to say type II diabetics or maybe it was heart patients, to get the weight off them quickly.

My first exposure to low-carb was the Mayo Clinic Diet, which was very similar to the Stillman diet (except it allowed vegetables as long as they were green, yellow or red and you had to drink grapefruit juice with every meal--I LOATHE grapefruit) and it clearly stated that it was used to get weight off surgery patients quickly.

[Citruskiss]

Fat, like on any diet, is exhaled and peed away. That's where it goes no matter what diet you're on.

While I didn't try anything close to Stillman's or Kimkins, I did find myself going on a really strict induction with lower fat and calories shortly after I got back from a quick trip to Mexico.

I came back from that trip up six pounds, because I found it difficult to stick to low carb, and I figured I'd deal with it when I got back.

I lost 12 pounds in one week, and several more the next week - not sure exactly how many. The weight just flew off.

This was 1,000-1,200 cals per day and anywhere from 12-20 *total* carbs (not net).

I lost my TOM. Never had that happen before...TOM just didn't show up.

Then, I started getting cramping and muscle spasms. I ran out to get the calcium/magnesium supplements and the potassium supplements, since I knew from reading published plans that we need these during our weight loss sometimes.

What I didn't know? That there's serious sodium lost as well. Had no clue.

Anyway - went to the doc's - complaining about the cramps and so on. She did some tests, and it turns out I have a mild case of 'hypotranemia' (low on sodium).

Not a good thing, and it's been difficult for me to get my electrolytes in balance.

How long was I on this 'stricter' version of Atkins? Just about two or three weeks. The cramping and spasming started within the first week. The cal/mag and potassium helped, but not completely. That's because I had no clue about the sodium thing. I go back to the doctor's office tomorrow to have my sodium level checked again.

I got seriously dehydrated from all the water loss (as pennink says, it's from going to the washroom a lot while losing weight)...

I was drinking more fluid to compensate - felt really dehydrated, and all the usual 'induction flu' symptoms...so lots of water, unsweetened iced tea and pellegrino mineral water. Mouth was dry...just like when I first started Atkins...

Given my experience - I don't think it's such a hot idea to go from a high carb eating situation to something too drastic at first.

I think regular Atkins works quite well. No need to get really weird on it. I mean, going extra strict or trying to incorporate other ideas (such as lowering fat) into the Atkins plan might not be such a great idea.

Thing is - most of us aren't necessarily doing as well as we could be on Atkins. It's easy to eat too much cheese, or eat non-induction, but still 'legal' foods and so on. So then we think it's not working...(well, this is what happened to me).

In any case - I really believe Atkins works very, very well. It's just that we need to get good at it. I was never all that 'good' at following all the rules of induction properly (especially on the idea that most of my carbs should be in the form of vegetables)...and I blamed the diet. So then, I got frustrated and got ridiculously strict there.

Oh yeah, I lost quite a bit of weight.

But ....NOT worth it.

I've had weeks and weeks of cramping, spasms, headaches. I'm only just now starting to recover from that.

Personally - I'd stay away from these 'quick fixes'. Unless you have a really good plan to incorporate lots of fish oil capsules (essential fatty acids are very important), and also a plan to deal with the electrolyte imblance that will most likely happen from the rapid water and weight loss.

Hope this helps you make your decision whether or not to go 'ultra strict'.

Sara

[deirdra]

Stillman Quick Weight Loss Diet is described on the "Plan Comparison" part of this site:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=67337&highlight=Stillman

Kimkins took it and added the Diet Coke + laxatives cocktail.

You can lose water weight quickly as it is very dehydrating, but you'll be lucky if your only side effect is extreme boredom. I haven't tried it since the 1960's - since I still have clear memories of choking down plain hard boiled eggs and dry chicken (oil-free they stick in your throat).

[pennink]

I'm with Citrus... the 22 pounds came off, sure, but then I stalled and I seem to have more trouble now.

Stay with a whole foods Atkins, watching cheese and cream. Do real carbs instead of net, and heck, keep the frickin' skin on your chicken and live a little.

[Citruskiss]

I'm with Citrus... the 22 pounds came off, sure, but then I stalled and I seem to have more trouble now.

Stay with a whole foods Atkins, watching cheese and cream. Do real carbs instead of net, and heck, keep the frickin' skin on your chicken and live a little.

Very well said - it's not necessary to be so strict. Really, it's not.

Atkins works, especially if you stick to the rules of induction. I don't eat dairy because I've discovered I'm intolerant to it, so I allow myself some sliced almonds on salads or what have you. And as many people here have told me, 'the vegetables aren't the problem' so to speak. So true. Lots of food, and no need to be hungry or feel overly deprived. Super fast weight loss is ...kind of an iffy idea, imo. Lots of weird things could happen - electrolyte imbalance, metabolism problems, stalling out and then not being able to 'lower' more, tired, lack of energy and so on.

You know what? Because you've been 'off' for a little while, I strongly suspect that regular Atkins induction or phase 1 of South Beach or Fat Flush or whatever plan you fancy is going to work just fine for you.

As for a 'kick start' when you need it - you can always go without cheese for a few days, or cut back on the mayonnaise or the higher-cal dressings - but just for a few days here and there - then add it back in. That's what I should have done... :o

There's also the Atkins KIS (Keep it Simple) 'plan' - which is unlimited low-carb vegetables, unlimited protein choices (including red meats, whole eggs, chicken skin or whatever)..just no dairy and no added fat besides olive oil. There are some long timers here who used to do Atkins KIS when they needed a kick start, and it appears to work quite well. They'd do it for a couple of weeks after the holidays or something to get going again - and I think (from what I've read) that it really works - and the unlimited vegetable thing seems appealing to me. People were making things like homemade meat loaf with chunks of tomatoes and onions in it etc. And there isn't a limit on the veggies, or the meats, fish, eggs or the olive oil. It's pared down for sure - but it seems a lot healthier to me than something like Stillman's or the stupid 'lower calorie/low carb' thing I was doing a few weeks ago.

Here, take a look: (to keep in mind when you feel you need a kick start)

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost.php?p=2066001&postcount=26

Sara

[pennink]

This makes sense to me (the KIS) because I'm always saying, cut out the cheese... etc.

Yeah, it would be hard to go no dairy completely, but I'll keep it in mind if I truly stall. Right now I'm coasting on the higher fat Atkins with cheese (under 4 oz a day)== keeps me from going nuts every so often.

[scthgharpy]

KIS, that makes sense. If nothing else, just cuz I know my own bod. I .. kind of go that way anyway, it seemed strange to utilize coconut oil, but...other than that, I take in little added fat. mayo to tuna or egg salad. Salad dressings. Olive oil to saute veggies. hmm, maybe thats actually quite a lot. Well, this isnt all in one day, either. ;) Often one of the above choices works its way into my diet in a single day. I LOVE the idea of not limiting veggies...not like I was being too terribly strict anyway, but how liberating! Yah, I think you guys have me convinced. Im on the verge of ketosis now (metal mouth), so tuesday its back on the induction wagon. I know, I should start now...but this weekend is the pleasanton scottish games, and we are part of the living history contingent and..if theres something yummy I want to sample, it would be a nice change to actually do so. And a cold ale at the end of a HOT day in long sleeves and velvet is the BEST! Thats what makes this a WOL for me, I think. Im confident I can Take a break every now and again, and then back on. Thanks everyone for your insights!