how do u get off bread?

[babwood57]

I want to lc and have tried many, many times but I miss bread so much! Is bread addictive? I can't seem to do without it. I know that sounds ridiculous that you can't do without a food, but it is hard. Has anyone else had a problem/love with bread and overcame it? I would love to know how. Thanks,Barb

[DaisyMayTN]

I also loved bread.....there are lo carb alternatives. One bread that I use is 5 carbs per slice. I learned to eat most meals without it.....there is a recipe for revoluntion rolls somewhere that has almost no carbs....people are using them for buns.

[MyJourney]

Have you tried making rev rolls? I don't think one will mistake it for bread but it sort of serves its purpose.

Here are a couple of pictures of rev rolls I made so you can get an idea of what they are/look like. This is a batch I made with butter instead of cream cheese but you can get an idea.

http://www.nobread.com/images/LC/butterbatch.jpg

http://www.nobread.com/images/LC/buttermid.jpg

[babwood57]

i never heard of rev bread. how do u make it?

[MyJourney]

Here is one of many threads on rev rolls http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=136958

There are many variations, for example, the picture I posted is made with butter instead of cream cheese. Some make it with ricotta or cottage cheese. Some use more or less eggs/whites/yolks, some add herbs or spices, sesame or caraway seeds, flax, soy or almond meals etc. Its all pretty much to taste but that link should give you the basic idea.

[sjtmiller]

I want to lc and have tried many, many times but I miss bread so much! Is bread addictive? I can't seem to do without it. I know that sounds ridiculous that you can't do without a food, but it is hard. Has anyone else had a problem/love with bread and overcame it? I would love to know how. Thanks,Barb

You simply stop buying it.

Yes, any food can be addictive.

I'd suggest flax muffins... but you'd probably go WAAAAAAY overboard on those!

And... why no plan?

How's that working for you?

[Wifezilla]

Almond meal pancakes helped me get through the bread cravings. I top them with strawberry-chia jelly. YUMMM!

[Terry-24]

Can you make it a "treat" instead of a "cheat"? You know, plan to have it once every X days?

Cheers--
Terry-24

[leekno]

I know it sounds simplistic but do not think of what you cannot have, think of the great things you can have.
Lee

[Wifezilla]

Exactly Lee!

Cream, Steak, Seafood, Cheese, Lots of tasty veggies, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Coconut....

[Koalaty]

I:

1) don't buy it
2) make rev rolls
3) make flax muffins/pancakes
4) try to enjoy other things that are tasty without bread
5) think about how nice it will be to be a size 6!

[Judynyc]

I want to lc and have tried many, many times but I miss bread so much! Is bread addictive? I can't seem to do without it. I know that sounds ridiculous that you can't do without a food, but it is hard. Has anyone else had a problem/love with bread and overcame it? I would love to know how. Thanks,Barb


Yes, the flour and the grains made to make the bread are very addictive and getting of them is the best thing that you can do for yourself. :agree:

I'm a flour abuser myself and had to really get that I cannot eat white flour or any flour for that matter...and not pay the price for it.

You can do it too!! :cool:

[Steady]

I use to easily down a whole loaf of bread in one sitting. I think bread is addictive; I was a bread addict.

You just have to make the decision to give bread up and stick with it. Cold turkey is best and don't look back...just look forward. Now I am able to keep bread and make sandwiches for DH without even tasting a crumb...I don't miss it..I've benefited so much by leaving bread out of my WOE...it is not worth adding bread back.

You can do it, but YOU have to make that decision and stick with it...
IMO I wouldn't even make rev rolls...it may keep your hankering for bread... you need to nix that craving by going cold turkey---nothing that looks or tastes remotely like bread.

You are stronger than you think! I know you can do it.

[MizKitty]

Wheat: the nicotine of food

Yes, we know that wheat contributes to creating small LDL, drops HDL, raises triglycerides, and VLDL. We also know it indirectly slows the clearance of after-eating fats from the blood (curious, I know). Wheat products also increase inflammation (C-reactive protein), raise blood sugar, and contribute tremendously to diabetes.

What many people don't know is that wheat products also have an addictive quality: have one donut and you want another. It's true for bread, breakfast cereals, pretzels, cookies, etc. How many times have you had just one Oreo cookie?

Curiously, elimination of wheat products, unlike elimination of nicotine, usually causes the cravings to disappear. In other words, if you stop smoking cigarettes, the desire to smoke doesn't go away. With wheat products, the often overwhelming desire for more wheat products often just goes away.

But most people are simply unable to dramatically reduce or eliminate wheat products from their daily diet and therefore struggle each and every day with excessive cravings for bagels, donuts, cookies, breads, etc.

Try this useful experiment: Eliminate wheat products for a month and see what happens. Most people drop blood pressure, lose the tummy excess, feel more alert, see a drop in blood sugar, experience improvements in lipoproteins, and regain control over appetite.

From the blog of Dr Davis, cardiologist, http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Wheat%3A%20the%20nicotine%20of%20food

But carb addiction isn't that hard to break. Just stop eating it. Do a true induction, and by the time it's over, your cravings will be gone.

[lisabinil]

I luv bread-eating it & baking it. How did I get over it? By not putting it in my mouth! :lol: I did a clean Induction and then I added OneMinuteMuffins and Revolution Rolls back to my diet. I still miss bread but don't crave it and being in control of the craving is fantastic.

[Judynyc]

Wheat: the nicotine of food

Yes, we know that wheat contributes to creating small LDL, drops HDL, raises triglycerides, and VLDL. We also know it indirectly slows the clearance of after-eating fats from the blood (curious, I know). Wheat products also increase inflammation (C-reactive protein), raise blood sugar, and contribute tremendously to diabetes.

What many people don't know is that wheat products also have an addictive quality: have one donut and you want another. It's true for bread, breakfast cereals, pretzels, cookies, etc. How many times have you had just one Oreo cookie?

Curiously, elimination of wheat products, unlike elimination of nicotine, usually causes the cravings to disappear. In other words, if you stop smoking cigarettes, the desire to smoke doesn't go away. With wheat products, the often overwhelming desire for more wheat products often just goes away.

But most people are simply unable to dramatically reduce or eliminate wheat products from their daily diet and therefore struggle each and every day with excessive cravings for bagels, donuts, cookies, breads, etc.

Try this useful experiment: Eliminate wheat products for a month and see what happens. Most people drop blood pressure, lose the tummy excess, feel more alert, see a drop in blood sugar, experience improvements in lipoproteins, and regain control over appetite.

From the blog of Dr Davis, cardiologist, http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/search/label/Wheat%3A%20the%20nicotine%20of%20food

But carb addiction isn't that hard to break. Just stop eating it. Do a true induction, and by the time it's over, your cravings will be gone.

Thanks for this Karen!! :thup: I'm putting in my journal. :cool:

[Aeryn]

Has anyone else had a problem/love with bread and overcame it? I would love to know how.

I tentatively offer myself up as a reformed bread addict. I was infamous in my family for my love of bread: I could sit down with a baguette and polish it off in a half an hour, and still want more. I would dip it in olive oil and balsamic vinegar -- or slather it in mustard -- or top it with layers of avocado and salt -- or put cheese and pickles and mayo on it and nearly die of gastronomic delight. Seriously, I always thought bread was my favorite food in the world, and I could not imagine living without it.

And yet, to my surprise, of all the cravings I've battled since going through induction, bread has not been one of them. I've craved sweet things, actually, which I never would have guessed, before Atkins, that I'd do. But not bread. I've craved pizza -- but this isn't just bread, it's bread with cheese on top, and I can eat cheese on Atkins. :)

Basically, what I'm saying is, if you take a leap of faith and fight the cravings for a few weeks, you might end up surprised by how easy it becomes to resist bread. You may not know your "true" cravings at all yet. They may only emerge once you've detoxed.

I recently read The Glycemic Load Diet and there's actually a passage in the book about how "sweet" is a true craving that we're wired for, but "starch" is NOT something we're wired to crave -- and that bread actually interacts only with our tastebuds for sweet stuff, because it starts to break down into glucose on the tongue. This was sort of a revelatory moment for me, since it explained why I might now crave sweet things like fruit like I never had before in my life, but why bread, while it smells good, leaves me mostly unfazed. Minus the opioid fix it had become accustomed to getting from grain (again, this info is from the Glycemic Load book; but google for more info, it's quite astonishing that grain has this mildly narcotic effect), my brain, when it wants sweets, now craves the real deal: fruit!

I do think you need to take that leap of faith, though. If you believe that this is a wholly different way of eating than you've ever embraced -- and chances are, it is wholly different! -- then it's not so hard to believe that you might feel wholly different after you've been on it for a while. The trick is fighting through that transition period, which believe me, I know from experience is not always easy.

ETA: Karen, that's a great post but as a former smoker, I admit I find it slightly depressing. :lol:

[babwood57]

thank you all for your encouragement and insight.
Barb

[uncjanie]

I often feel sorry for myself and think about the foods I'm giving up, but then I pull myself together and say "nothing tastes as good as thin feels".

[lexy-lou]

I am definitely a recovering bread addict! I used to have whole wheat toast or a toaster waffle every morning for breakfast. When I decided to go LC three months ago, I put the toaster in a cupboard & eliminated all bread from the house. For the first month or so I had eggs for breakfast. Now I eat a flax muffin every morning. Strangely, I don't miss bread anymore. I never thought that would be possible.

[mike_d]

I make my own, freeze it and eat it rarely-- I just can't stand the chemical smells in the bread isles. A fair substitute is Joseph's LC flax breads if you can find them. The old Super WM have in the Deli section.

[SRabbit]

When I get a craving for bread, which is very rare these days, I get some low carb tortillas and make rollups with meat and cheese.

The point is, you have to think about the positive side of why you're doing this, not what you're giving up. I've lost 79lbs---believe me, the way I feel right now is so much better than the way I'd feel if I ate all the junk that tempted me during that time!!!

Pick a plan, learn all about it, endorse it, celebrate it and start seeing all the weight loss and success you really want for yourself---and quit dwelling on what you "can't" eat---it's not what you can't eat, it's what you're choosing not to eat so you can be healthy...

You really can do this, it's going to work for you---good luck!!

[pennink]

The only time I miss bread is when eating a hamburger.

Then it's not the bread so much as it is the convenience and I seem to have grown tired of the taste of revolution rolls. I use lettuce to wrap them in often, too.

But I can merrily watch my family eat rolls, sandwiches, baguettes, toast, bagels, all my favs, without feeling deprived.
I really look at the cup half full thing. I mean, I can eat fillet with baked brie, full fat dressings, fried eggs! all the things the low fat people would cut their arms off for!

Bread is not the staff of life, it's the crutch. (For a very crippled way of eating)

[penelope]

I found that you have to be off bread for a couple months before you appreciate the convenience of Revolution Rolls. It does not feel like bread and does not taste like bread, it is a vehicle for everything you want to slap inside.
I do go to all the fast food places and I switch the bun for my own Revolution Rolls everytimes.

[Nancy LC]

Go cold turkey. I found out I was intolerant to gluten and I think part of that makes me crave it something awful. But going off it cold turkey and knowing that it was like poison to me and visualizing a skull and crossbones on the bread-things made it easy.

You can't get rid of cravings if you indulge them.

[ElleH]

I agree just go cold-turkey. Make some rev rolls. Think how much better a chicken breast is with a yummy mushroom cream sauce on a bed of fresh sauteed garlic spinach, than on a kaiser roll.

Thanks for the article about wheat. I'm so set against avoiding wheat, that now, even when I binge, I don't eat wheat when I do!

[Wifezilla]

carbquik could also help you wean yourself from bread. It makes pretty good biscuits.

[Judynyc]

carbquik could also help you wean yourself from bread. It makes pretty good biscuits.

Carbquick is still flour:thdown:...if you want to get off flour, best not to use low carb frankenfood versions of it.

[Squiggle86]

To me, bread is just a medium for all of the yummy things that go on it, or in it.

Meat, cheese, oils, mayo, veggies, burgers. I can make a killer burger and have it atop a bed of baby spinach, or all of the meat and cheese that would come in a fabulous deli sandwich, without bread. It seems unnecessary to me now.

I miss baguette sometimes, but that's about it.

I am a baker while going to school and bake hundreds of loaves of bread everyday... sourdough, olive bread, onion and cheese bread, baguettes, rolls, danishes, croissants... and I'm fine. I don't want any of it.

That, and willpower. If I were to say to myself "I don't know if I can LIVE without bread" I would simply reply to myself..."well, stay fat then." If eliminating crappy, nutritionally empty foods is all it takes, I'm there :D

[Wifezilla]

Not everyone can go cold turkey. It can be a useful tool to WEAN YOURSELF off of bread.

[LoveMyGSDs]

You simply stop buying it. Wow, so cancel all the AA programs. Simply stop drinking alcohol.
Yes, any food can be addictive.

I'd suggest flax muffins... but you'd probably go WAAAAAAY overboard on those! Again, this is not helpful.

And... why no plan?

How's that working for you? About as well as Atkins, South Beach or any other plan would work for someone who's having a problem with wheat addiction, I'd imagine.
This is horribly sarcastic and not helpful at all. Why bother posting? :thdown:

[Didy]

That, and willpower. If I were to say to myself "I don't know if I can LIVE without bread" I would simply reply to myself..."well, stay fat then." If eliminating crappy, nutritionally empty foods is all it takes, I'm there :D

Good response! So simple, and yet so profound. :agree:

[MandaSue]

You simply stop buying it.

Yes, any food can be addictive.

I'd suggest flax muffins... but you'd probably go WAAAAAAY overboard on those!

And... why no plan?

How's that working for you?

Man...talk about tough love!! Or...no freakin' love at all! :thdown:

Perhaps a lot less sarcasm and negativity, and you might be valued as a resource. Just a tip :idea:

[Daisymaiz]

This is horribly sarcastic and not helpful at all. Why bother posting? :thdown:

I agree. If it were that simple, most of us would not have become overweight in the first place. Also, if it's as simple as "just don't do it," you can't call it an addiction (which I agree, it is.)

To the OP: everyone else has given great advice so I'll just say welcome and keep coming back! Most people here are supportive and helpful--sometimes just talking to someone who understands what you are dealing with is the best help there is.

[Wifezilla]

And... why no plan?

How's that working for you?

Working great for me thanks! 26 lbs in 3 months. Woo hoo!!

[pennink]

I pretend bread tastes like farts...


so does cake, and cherries, and corn, and cheese doodles, and popcorn... horrible stuff... :lol:

[joylorene]

When I get a craving for bread, which is very rare these days, I get some low carb tortillas and make rollups with meat and cheese.



Excellent idea! That is what I've been doing and they work wonders!! I make a huge batch for me & use the regular ones for the family - everyone just loves them. I also use them to make fajitas and buritos and pizza's - they are terrific!! Also put a little butter and splenda & cinamon on them in the AM instead of eggs all the time. They really help me stick to plan

[SunnyCarol]

I found that you have to be off bread for a couple months before you appreciate the convenience of Revolution Rolls. It does not feel like bread and does not taste like bread, it is a vehicle for everything you want to slap inside.
I do go to all the fast food places and I switch the bun for my own Revolution Rolls everytimes.I found this to be very true. I think you have to go cold turkey for a while before trying the substitutes--time enough for your brain to 'forget' the taste and texture of the real stuff. I tried the flax bread early on and didn't like it at all. After going several months without any kind of substitute, I tried it again and now I LOVE it. Enough that I have to not make it often, because I over eat it. I make the flax bread in the microwave like usual, then put it in the toaster oven to brown it and I think it tastes a lot like corn bread. I love it with my low carb chili--just like I did my old corn bread and chili.

I didn't like the rev rolls to start with, but I've tweaked the recipe and find that if you leave them in the fridge for at least two days, they are more like a regular roll. I like them best made with mayo. I made some this morning and I'm having a hard time waiting, as usual.

Bread was my total downfall, but I went more than a year without anything with flour passing my lips. So many of my physical problems cleared up and I feel so much better.

You can do it!

Sunny!

[babwood57]

I pretend bread tastes like farts...


so does cake, and cherries, and corn, and cheese doodles, and popcorn... horrible stuff... :lol:
that is too funny!

[babwood57]

This is horribly sarcastic and not helpful at all. Why bother posting? :thdown:
I meant to say thank you.

[kwikdriver]

My guess is that everyone here has, or has had, problems with some food or another, whether it be bread, or sweets or, as in my case, "snack chips," as they are called today. Another guess of mine is that the reason so many people fail at this is an inability, in the end, to give those things up. Maybe we succeed in giving them up for a week, a month, even a year or two, but eventually most people go back to whatever problem food they had in the first place, which ends up being a gateway food to other stuff. I think a couple of people here have pointed out the right attitude: look at grains the way an alcoholic should look at alcohol, you know, "One drink is too many, a million drinks aren't enough." I don't see another way around it; for addicts, there's no such thing as "moderation," and like many people in this thread, I view flour and sugar as addictive substances. I don't want to imply that quitting that stuff is easy or anything (it's especially hard when society keeps screaming at you about how "healthy" bread is), but I do think it has to be done if you are to succeed at this long term.

[Squiggle86]

Man...talk about tough love!! Or...no freakin' love at all! :thdown:

Perhaps a lot less sarcasm and negativity, and you might be valued as a resource. Just a tip :idea:

I think sometimes, tough love is necessary... even if it's unwelcome. Yes, this is a support forum, and I think while most would object to how she worded it, stjmiller has a great point. Simply stop buying it.

Bread is considered such a staple part of the North American diet. Dr. A or which ever low carb plan we choose to follow gives us so many wonderful, nutritionally dense food options, and eating bread will simply not work with this way of eating. Sometimes people tell me "oh I couldn't live without bread" or "I'd die without my sugar fix" and all I can think to myself is... where's that rolling-the-eyes emoticon? Losing weight and getting healthy is not magic, it takes will-power.

We all have our 'downfall' foods, but we have to remember our ultimate goals and gain control over cravings and the 'needings' of certain foods, or it just won't work for us.

I like stjmiller's posts (while new to this forum, I'm not new to low carb forum-land in general, and they stand out to me), they're straight and to the point with stats to back them up. People are supportive in their own ways. We can still be supportive without over-coddling.

My own "well then STAY FAT" attitude with myself is tough love. It works. It's just something I HAVE to do, or I'll slip. I convince myself that I don't need that food, because there's so much else out there that's good for me to eat.

Blah. My whole point was not to pick on your post MandaSue :agree: in the least, just to say that support can come in the form of tough love.

And this is coming from a person with more food/binge/eating disorder warped food addictions than you can shake a stick at. :yum:

[Judynyc]

My guess is that everyone here has, or has had, problems with some food or another, whether it be bread, or sweets or, as in my case, "snack chips," as they are called today. Another guess of mine is that the reason so many people fail at this is an inability, in the end, to give those things up. Maybe we succeed in giving them up for a week, a month, even a year or two, but eventually most people go back to whatever problem food they had in the first place, which ends up being a gateway food to other stuff. I think a couple of people here have pointed out the right attitude: look at grains the way an alcoholic should look at alcohol, you know, "One drink is too many, a million drinks aren't enough." I don't see another way around it; for addicts, there's no such thing as "moderation," and like many people in this thread, I view flour and sugar as addictive substances. I don't want to imply that quitting that stuff is easy or anything (it's especially hard when society keeps screaming at you about how "healthy" bread is), but I do think it has to be done if you are to succeed at this long term.

Hey kwik!! :wave:
We agree!! :lol: :agree: :thup:


I'm reading a book called "Going Against the Grain" by Melissa Diane Smith. Its a real eye opener about grain in general :eek:

I'm going to quote a paragraph from it:
A considerable amount of research indicates that grains and dairy aren't just food; they also contain opioid substances called exorphins. Researchers have always been very cautious in discussing the possible behavioral effects of exorphins found in normal amounts of grain and dairy products, but the evidence certainly suggests that exorphins have druglike effects and maybe , to some degree, addictive. Wadley and Martin propose that once patches of wild grain appeared, humans learned to process grains to make them more edible, and eating these foods produced a sense of reward or comfort (just like many opioid drugs can cause) Humans then began to favor grains, crave them and eat more of them...in other words, our early ancestors became hooked on them.

So yes, sometimes a substitute for flour/bread is just as bad as the original. Did I totally abstain while I lost my weight...nope!! But I would allow myself one item once a month, just so that I would not feel deprived cuz that would've sent me to binging and giving up totally.

I would not and still do not eat flour/bread daily...I'm very careful with it as it is such a slippery slope. :idea:

[ValerieL]

..................deleted.

[neverwhere]

Support can come in the form of tough love, which isn't always easy to hear/read. Absolutely. However, there is a difference between "tough love" and berating someone and basically telling them they suck or arent doing something right just because it's not the way YOU lost the weight.

And just because someone has the stats to prove they made it doesnt mean they are better than anyone else or that they have the right to riducule those who arent there yet. Nor does it mean their way is the only right way. Call me crazy, but I dont come to a support group to be snapped at. There is a large difference between coddling someone and being helpful and decent. Being nice to someone who is struggling is NOT coddling. You dont have to hold the hand of every person you give advice to. But it would be nice if they were treated with acceptance and understanding.

I'm pretty sure the OP knows to ""not buy" the bread. I highly doubt she buys it and lays it on her counter and stares at it, wondering why she cant stop thinking about it. Clearly she's in the begining stage of a completely different WOE and she's trying to learn how to cope. So she came here to see what we all do, not to be told she is doing it all wrong.

OP, not to thread jack but I do not like the way some people are treated here by other members. Maybe belittling someone else's efforts make them feel better about their own? I'm not sure. All I can tell you is, take it one day at a time. I struggle with the bread and pasta too. But each day you make it through is one day longer you've lived without it!

[MandaSue]

Support can come in the form of tough love, which isn't always easy to hear/read. Absolutely. However, there is a difference between "tough love" and berating someone and basically telling them they suck or arent doing something right just because it's not the way YOU lost the weight.

And just because someone has the stats to prove they made it doesnt mean they are better than anyone else or that they have the right to riducule those who arent there yet. Nor does it mean their way is the only right way. Call me crazy, but I dont come to a support group to be snapped at. There is a large difference between coddling someone and being helpful and decent. Being nice to someone who is struggling is NOT coddling. You dont have to hold the hand of every person you give advice to. But it would be nice if they were treated with acceptance and understanding.

I'm pretty sure the OP knows to ""not buy" the bread. I highly doubt she buys it and lays it on her counter and stares at it, wondering why she cant stop thinking about it. Clearly she's in the begining stage of a completely different WOE and she's trying to learn how to cope. So she came here to see what we all do, not to be told she is doing it all wrong.

OP, not to thread jack but I do not like the way some people are treated here by other members. Maybe belittling someone else's efforts make them feel better about their own? I'm not sure. All I can tell you is, take it one day at a time. I struggle with the bread and pasta too. But each day you make it through is one day longer you've lived without it!

Exactly Nicole.

That's what my post was about. Tough love isn't about being a smartass, it's about telling someone straight up in a respectful way that you are concerned, and what they are doing is not okay.

Another :idea: Squiggle, if you prefer sjtmiller's "way of thought", then perhaps she can give you personal coaching and support for this WOE?

[LoveMyGSDs]

I meant to say thank you.
You're welcome.

You've gotten some really great advice and tips. The bottom line is that works for one, doesn't always work for another. So, look at the tips you've gotten and pick one that you think fits you best and try it.

Like some others have mentioned, I had to go cold turkey with no substitutes. Once it was out of my system, then I allowed myself to have the occasional substitute. (I also tell myself that I want to be thin more then I want to eat bread.)

[neverwhere]

You're welcome.

You've gotten some really great advice and tips. The bottom line is that works for one, doesn't always work for another. So, look at the tips you've gotten and pick one that you think fits you best and try it.

Like some others have mentioned, I had to go cold turkey with no substitutes. Once it was out of my system, then I allowed myself to have the occasional substitute. (I also tell myself that I want to be thin more then I want to eat bread.)

This is true. I now eat Josephs flax pita bread or occasionally use lc muffin mix or carbquick...but I definately would have derailed if I started out with this stuff. I still cant handle Dreamfields. I go crazy with it.

[pennink]

I can't even handle a teaspoon of flax...

sigh.

[LoveMyGSDs]

I think sometimes, tough love is necessary... even if it's unwelcome. Yes, this is a support forum, and I think while most would object to how she worded it, stjmiller has a great point. Simply stop buying it.


I like stjmiller's posts (while new to this forum, I'm not new to low carb forum-land in general, and they stand out to me), they're straight and to the point with stats to back them up. People are supportive in their own ways. We can still be supportive without over-coddling.


I have to disagree with having stats to back something up. Sjtmiller has been in maintenance for less than 2 years. If we were having this discussion a year and a half ago, I had over 3.5 years of maintenance under my belt. You can never get so full of yourself that you think you are out of the clear. After over 3.5 years of maintaining, I found myself in a depression over a personal issue that sent me partially back to my old eating habits and allowed me to regain half of the weight I'd lost. If you'd asked me the year before I would have told you "oh no, I will NEVER regain any of this weight." Well, I didn't foresee how depression would effect me and I was cocky.

So, while people who have been maintaining for a little while can have very valuable advice to give, they're not Gods or superheroes and they're certainly capable of backsliding. That's why I don't put *too* much emphasis on stats.

Sure tough love is necessary sometimes, but I don't think that's what that was and I don't think this situation called for it. Implied in the phrase "tough love" is that some love is actually there. I didn't see it and I don't think most others saw it either. Furthermore, it's not like the OP has been all over the forum lamenting that she can't give up bread, getting good advice that she's ignoring, yet continuing to post requesting help. Okay, THEN you offer some tough LOVE. However, when someone posts a new question about how others dealt with a situation that they're struggling with, that's not the time for tough love. That's the time to explain your own struggles and how you overcame them. In other words, it's time to answer the question. Saying "don't buy bread" really isn't answering the question, as I'm sure the OP isn't an idiot.

[pennink]

I so hear you about the cockiness...

I was incredibly SURE that my way was the only way, that after losing 133 pounds I'd NEVER gain it back... then meds and life came at me.

I think the key to success from what I've gleaned so far from people who have lost BIG amounts (not just 20 pounds or so) is that you must accept yourself, accept it's not a quick solution, that you must always be vigilant of what goes in your mouth, and just give yourself a break.

Having a break every now and then isn't a big deal, it's only a big deal if you never get back. But nothing nothing nothing in life is black and white. One size fits all does not work in panty hose or life.

[Judynyc]

One size fits all does not work in panty hose or life.

OMG!!! I love this!! :thup: :cool:

Thank you.

[potatofree]

I wish I'd read this thread long ago. If I just somehow was able to figure out that all I needed to do was not buy the stuff, I'd have never gained weight. :rolleyes:

The times I fall off the wagon entirely are the times I stop allowing myself the substitute items. They keep me from feeling sorry for myself and dwelling on the things I shouldn't have.

I don't see them as poison or a crutch, but as a useful tool to let me mitigate any damage that would come from feeling so deprived I go nuts with the REAL stuff.

I do agree that a clean induction really does help "reset" your tastes and make the substitutes more appealing. If I'd started out with Carbquik or the flax meal things, I'd have been dwelling on how they taste different.... not the similarities.

To each his/her own, I guess.

[Squiggle86]

Call me crazy, but I dont come to a support group to be snapped at. There is a large difference between coddling someone and being helpful and decent. Being nice to someone who is struggling is NOT coddling. You dont have to hold the hand of every person you give advice to. But it would be nice if they were treated with acceptance and understanding.

I agree with this 100%.

Another Squiggle, if you prefer sjtmiller's "way of thought", then perhaps she can give you personal coaching and support for this WOE?

It's not necessary, I just noticed her posts stood out. Frank and to the point.
I didn't mean for my comments to bring the validity or relevance of her stats into debate, I was just agreeing with the "stop buying it, cold turkey" approach.

Furthermore, it's not like the OP has been all over the forum lamenting that she can't give up bread, getting good advice that she's ignoring, yet continuing to post requesting help. Okay, THEN you offer some tough LOVE. However, when someone posts a new question about how others dealt with a situation that they're struggling with, that's not the time for tough love. That's the time to explain your own struggles and how you overcame them. In other words, it's time to answer the question. Saying "don't buy bread" really isn't answering the question, as I'm sure the OP isn't an idiot.

You are right.

To clarify, I was agreeing only with the "stop buying it" approach. Not ANYTHING else in that post. It was harsh.

I don't agree with cockiness or berating, not in the least, on a support forum.

So in conclusion... I only meant to say that I agree with the fact that we all must realize that on certain plans, we just can't have bread. Not right now, anyway. Stop buying it, find other options, low carb bread even (although this would never work for me) if you absolutely must have it. But I feel thinking like you NEED something like bread will only hamper progress. I feel it is something we have to get over to be successful. Low carb, is very different from the diet some of us grew up with, i.e, bread with dinner, dessert after dinner, sandwiches for lunch. And we have to accept that it's different.

So if flax muffins and things like that keep you going, rock on.

But cold turkey is the opinion from myself.

I think I was misunderstood, guys. :confused: I do not agree with how that post was worded or the general cockiness and attitude. NOR the 'how's that working for you'. I only agreed with the frankness and to-the-pointedness of the idea. Because to me, eating bread are old eating habits and I got fat eating that way. Changing eating habits and how we think of certain foods is necessary to be successful. That's all I was saying. :)

[LoveMyGSDs]

But cold turkey is the opinion from myself.

I think I was misunderstood, guys. :confused: I do not agree with how that post was worded or the general cockiness and attitude. NOR the 'how's that working for you'. I only agreed with the frankness and to-the-pointedness of the idea. Because to me, eating bread are old eating habits and I got fat eating that way. Changing eating habits and how we think of certain foods is necessary to be successful. That's all I was saying. :)
Same for me. It wouldn't have worked for me if I used substitutes right away. I guess it's like smoking, in a way. Some people go cold turkey and some people need nicotine patches/gum/pills. Whatever works for you! :agree:

I think you're right and that I misunderstood your post. I apologize if it seemed as though I was attacking you for it because that certainly was not my intent. (I do like a good debate though. :D )

You are also absolutely right that chaging eating habits is key. :thup: If you MUST have a burger on a bun, then when you don't have a revolution roll or flax bread handy, you'll always end up eating the white bun.

[Nancy LC]

I pretend bread tastes like farts...


so does cake, and cherries, and corn, and cheese doodles, and popcorn... horrible stuff... :lol:
LOL! I just visualize what happens to me when I eat them, too much glucose, heart pounding rapidly (really does happen!), eventually diabetes, extreme obesity, losing a foot or two, kidneys shutting down, dimentia, pain, colon cancer... that pretty much does the trick.

[MandaSue]

LOL! I just visualize what happens to me when I eat them, too much glucose, heart pounding rapidly (really does happen!), eventually diabetes, extreme obesity, losing a foot or two, kidneys shutting down, dimentia, pain, colon cancer... that pretty much does the trick.


Wow...extreme, but I like it!! :thup: :lol:

[neverwhere]

Nancy, every time I get bloated or sick from eating something I shouldnt, I ask why I didnt remind myself that it makes me sick before the fact. :rolleyes: Old habits die hard.

Squigg, sorry if I misunderstood your post. I do agree with most of your points when you word it that way. Like I just said in OP's new thread, I'm just tired of the negativity I see from some members. Definately not trying to cause drama, just taking a stand against what I see as unproductive negativity. Yeah sometimes words do get misconstrued, thats the truth. It's when I percieve negativity on the regular that I have to speak up.

Now lets get back to avoiding bread :D

[Squiggle86]

:) I'm not a fan of negativity either.

Bread sucks. I just view it was 'unnecessary', like pasta and rice. I love all the stuff that goes on it. It's just a medium for other foods.

But, I do understand. I know my mom only ever bought whole wheat bread with seeds and stuff on it. We never ate bread with dinner just for the sake of having bread with dinner.

When I moved out on my own I bought Wonder Bread ("Wonder +" the 'healthy' bread that looks like white bread.) And when I bought it, it went fast. Grilled cheeses, bread with butter as a snack, egg in the nest, with pasta etc. When I had it, I used it up. Just empty, extra calories/carbs.

Now I try to find other snack ideas since I don't have any bread. I am filled up faster eating meat or a piece of cheese as a snack, whereas I could eat 3 grilled cheeses as a snack before.

[neverwhere]

:) Grilled cheeses, bread with butter as a snack, egg in the nest, with pasta etc. When I had it, I used it up. Just empty, extra calories/carbs.

Now I try to find other snack ideas since I don't have any bread. I am filled up faster eating meat or a piece of cheese as a snack, whereas I could eat 3 grilled cheeses as a snack before.

I am a huge bread and pasta addict. I could care less about the sugar (although I like that too). I could eat multiple sandwiches as a "snack" too. Fresh italian bread is the worst for me. I could eat slice after slice, dipped in oil, with butter, as toast...while making a sandwhich or other meal involving the bread. Absolutely filling up on the empty.

It was really out of control. I so understand.

[Rose1271]

I want to lc and have tried many, many times but I miss bread so much! Is bread addictive? I can't seem to do without it. I know that sounds ridiculous that you can't do without a food, but it is hard. Has anyone else had a problem/love with bread and overcame it? I would love to know how. Thanks,Barb

It would help to know what plan you are doing. If you are simply doing a modified lower carb woe, then you can still have your bread. I suggest a whole grain bread w/no added sugar, lots of fiber, no additives/preservatives, no high fructose corn syrups. (I get mine at my local health food store, Cybros Inc. Breads for Life, they have a website and deliver, however, because their breads do not have preservatives in them, traveling might make them spoil/mold faster. I have to keep mine in the freezer or else they will get moldy quick!)

If you are doing Atkins, then no bread during induction. Later, when you climb the rungs of owl, then you can add whole grains. But much much later up the ladder.

As for substitutions, I do not recommend revolution rolls. I think they taste too eggy and do not have any kind of bread substance to them at all. I did not like them no matter how dressed up I made them. If you are looking for something more "bready", flax meal made into muffins is, in my opinion, a better choice. If you're just looking for a transport for other foods, ie: deli meat, then you can give rev rolls a try, but imho: blech!

I have not tried Carbquick, so I can not say positive, nor negative things about it.

I grew up eating rice (I'm Filipina), so that was the hardest thing for me to give up. Occasionaly I wll splurge and have a serving (especially when visiting my mom), but the very next meal I'm right back on plan. From your post, it seems to me that it might be harder for you to moderate yourself and watch your portions, so I would just steer clear of it for the time being.

You'd be surprised that after a 2 week clean induction on Atkins, you will no longer crave the bread. If you do decide on Atkins and do the induction period, I suggest you rid your house of any breads so that the temptation is not staring at you and saying "eat me!" Same with just skipping the bread aisle altogether in the grocery store. It will be difficult, but saying no is half the battle, right?

As for a couple posters who said that they can't control themselves with pasta, Spaghetti Squash is a GREAT transport for sauce.

As for those who were digging on sjtmiller, well all I gotta say is this: Yes her post was extreme and a bit unlike her as far as bluntness. Her posts (I first started reading her on another forum for the past few years) are always short and to the point and do come across as rude sometimes, but her advice and her knowledge in lcarbing is endless. She has helped many people stick to the plan, given EXCELLENT advice and I commend her for that (in fact many people miss her on the other board). I believe her post was sarcastic and short because there was not that much information for her to base an informative answer/advice on. No plan mentioned, the op stating that she couldn't live w/o bread, hence the flax muffin comment, and the mention of not buying bread, imho, pretty much sums it up plain and simple. Not buying it=not eating it. She (sjmiller) may be a newer member to this board, but those who have been here for years, do not dismiss her as arrogant and rude as you have not yet grown accustomed to her ways (posts), be it tough love. She wouldn't be on this board if she didn't also need some kind of support and is willing to dole some out as well w/o being flamed.

I'm new here also and I have seen many threads on here with others getting on others' cases regarding the whole "tough love" approach. If we didn't give tough love out here and there, then some ppl wouldn't listen and continue on a path of self-destruction in their weight loss journey. True, in some cases, it could be doled out in a more polite manner, but when you're sitting here reading things like "oh I cheated with this or that, or I want to plan a cheat day" it can get very frustrating and emotions spill out into our posts. Some people won't get a clue unless you spell things out plain and simple. Not everything in life is wrapped up in puppy kisses and baby giggles.

To the OP-Best of luck to you on whichever plan you decide!

[Daisymaiz]

True, in some cases, it could be doled out in a more polite manner, but when you're sitting here reading things like "oh I cheated with this or that, or I want to plan a cheat day" it can get very frustrating and emotions spill out into our posts. Some people won't get a clue unless you spell things out plain and simple. Not everything in life is wrapped up in puppy kisses and baby giggles.


OK, but that wasn't the case here. It's not necessary for every post to be like that or to assume that someone won't get a clue when it's the first time they've asked the question.

[penelope]

We should always agree to anyone wanting a cheat day, after all this is how we learned, through experience, and who would listen to us, know it all?
Why not let them try what their little heart wants to do, I did, and no ones opinion really mattered.
I learned from my many mistakes because when I want something I want it now.

[Rose1271]

OK, but that wasn't the case here. It's not necessary for every post to be like that or to assume that someone won't get a clue when it's the first time they've asked the question.

maybe me using quotation marks wasn't the best idea, but when a person says they want to low carb, but doesn't want to give up or can't give up bread because they can't live w/o it, is pretty much the same thing. Semantics, semantics, semantics.

[Rose1271]

We should always agree to anyone wanting a cheat day, after all this is how we learned, through experience, and who would listen to us, know it all?
Why not let them try what their little heart wants to do, I did, and no ones opinion really mattered.
I learned from my many mistakes because when I want something I want it now.

Then what did you need a support forum for?

[pennink]

We should always agree to anyone wanting a cheat day, after all this is how we learned, through experience, and who would listen to us, know it all?
Why not let them try what their little heart wants to do, I did, and no ones opinion really mattered.
I learned from my many mistakes because when I want something I want it now.


Planned 'cheats' or refeeds might not be a bad idea. But giving in to the cravings and then falling off the wagon... so sad.

Maybe just not 'agree' but say, "it's up to you, but let me tell you my experience" Then they might listen or might not, but don't go off with a blessing.

[penelope]

To read about everyone’s mistakes over and over and over again until it clicked that I was not special. I was a food chemical mess and emotions only slow your goals.
It is very basic, your are the result of your ingredients.

[babwood57]

It would help to know what plan you are doing. If you are simply doing a modified lower carb woe, then you can still have your bread. I suggest a whole grain bread w/no added sugar, lots of fiber, no additives/preservatives, no high fructose corn syrups. (I get mine at my local health food store, Cybros Inc. Breads for Life, they have a website and deliver, however, because their breads do not have preservatives in them, traveling might make them spoil/mold faster. I have to keep mine in the freezer or else they will get moldy quick!)

If you are doing Atkins, then no bread during induction. Later, when you climb the rungs of owl, then you can add whole grains. But much much later up the ladder.

As for substitutions, I do not recommend revolution rolls. I think they taste too eggy and do not have any kind of bread substance to them at all. I did not like them no matter how dressed up I made them. If you are looking for something more "bready", flax meal made into muffins is, in my opinion, a better choice. If you're just looking for a transport for other foods, ie: deli meat, then you can give rev rolls a try, but imho: blech!

I have not tried Carbquick, so I can not say positive, nor negative things about it.

I grew up eating rice (I'm Filipina), so that was the hardest thing for me to give up. Occasionaly I wll splurge and have a serving (especially when visiting my mom), but the very next meal I'm right back on plan. From your post, it seems to me that it might be harder for you to moderate yourself and watch your portions, so I would just steer clear of it for the time being.

You'd be surprised that after a 2 week clean induction on Atkins, you will no longer crave the bread. If you do decide on Atkins and do the induction period, I suggest you rid your house of any breads so that the temptation is not staring at you and saying "eat me!" Same with just skipping the bread aisle altogether in the grocery store. It will be difficult, but saying no is half the battle, right?

As for a couple posters who said that they can't control themselves with pasta, Spaghetti Squash is a GREAT transport for sauce.

As for those who were digging on sjtmiller, well all I gotta say is this: Yes her post was extreme and a bit unlike her as far as bluntness. Her posts (I first started reading her on another forum for the past few years) are always short and to the point and do come across as rude sometimes, but her advice and her knowledge in lcarbing is endless. She has helped many people stick to the plan, given EXCELLENT advice and I commend her for that (in fact many people miss her on the other board). I believe her post was sarcastic and short because there was not that much information for her to base an informative answer/advice on. No plan mentioned, the op stating that she couldn't live w/o bread, hence the flax muffin comment, and the mention of not buying bread, imho, pretty much sums it up plain and simple. Not buying it=not eating it. She (sjmiller) may be a newer member to this board, but those who have been here for years, do not dismiss her as arrogant and rude as you have not yet grown accustomed to her ways (posts), be it tough love. She wouldn't be on this board if she didn't also need some kind of support and is willing to dole some out as well w/o being flamed.

I'm new here also and I have seen many threads on here with others getting on others' cases regarding the whole "tough love" approach. If we didn't give tough love out here and there, then some ppl wouldn't listen and continue on a path of self-destruction in their weight loss journey. True, in some cases, it could be doled out in a more polite manner, but when you're sitting here reading things like "oh I cheated with this or that, or I want to plan a cheat day" it can get very frustrating and emotions spill out into our posts. Some people won't get a clue unless you spell things out plain and simple. Not everything in life is wrapped up in puppy kisses and baby giggles.

To the OP-Best of luck to you on whichever plan you decide!


I wasn't asking for an informative answer - just if anyone had a similar problem. I didn't know I needed to say I had a plan or what it was. Some people never get a clue but that doesn't make it alright to take frustration out on them or let your emotions spill out.

[pennink]

To read about everyone’s mistakes over and over and over again until it clicked that I was not special. I was a food chemical mess and emotions only slow your goals.
It is very basic, your are the result of your ingredients.

oh, you are special to us Penelope! :D

[penelope]

oh, you are special to us Penelope! It must be my lovely contrary personality. Try some reverse psychology with me.

[pennink]

It must be my lovely contrary personality. Try some reverse psychology with me.

oh, but 'special' can mean soooo many things ;)


I think this bread thread has made me hungry. Darn it all. I just watched everyone eating their sandwiches and subs at lunch and had the urge to A) grab the innards and chomp them all down myself B) grab the bread and chomp that all down C) look away and whimper.

Ya, I chose C.

[Daisymaiz]

I wasn't asking for an informative answer - just if anyone had a similar problem.

And I think that's what support forums are for, isn't it?

maybe me using quotation marks wasn't the best idea, but when a person says they want to low carb, but doesn't want to give up or can't give up bread because they can't live w/o it, is pretty much the same thing. Semantics, semantics, semantics.

Anyone who doesn't want to or isn't willing to give up bread (or whatever) wouldn't be coming here asking for advice on HOW TO give it up. Maybe for some it is as simple as "just don't do it," but obviously that isn't the case for everyone.

Yes we all make our own choices and are responsible for the decisions we make, but sometimes an "I understand" along with the "tough love" goes a long way.

When you ask for help with something that is truly difficult for you, is an answer of "well you just do it!" really all that helpful?

[Didy]

The thing that I appreciate about this forum is that when someone gives an opinion about something, there is at least 1 person who benefits from their particular style. So, even if I may think someone's comments are kind of rude or waaaayyy too harsh, inevitably, someone else will respond with "that was just the kick in the butt I needed!" or something to that effect. :)

Good luck on kicking the bread habit babwood57!! I know you can do it!! This really is a great place to come and learn, share, and grow!! :agree:

[LoveMyGSDs]

As for those who were digging on sjtmiller, well all I gotta say is this: Yes her post was extreme and a bit unlike her as far as bluntness. Her posts (I first started reading her on another forum for the past few years) are always short and to the point and do come across as rude sometimes, but her advice and her knowledge in lcarbing is endless. She has helped many people stick to the plan, given EXCELLENT advice and I commend her for that (in fact many people miss her on the other board). I believe her post was sarcastic and short because there was not that much information for her to base an informative answer/advice on. No plan mentioned, the op stating that she couldn't live w/o bread, hence the flax muffin comment, and the mention of not buying bread, imho, pretty much sums it up plain and simple. Not buying it=not eating it. She (sjmiller) may be a newer member to this board, but those who have been here for years, do not dismiss her as arrogant and rude as you have not yet grown accustomed to her ways (posts), be it tough love. She wouldn't be on this board if she didn't also need some kind of support and is willing to dole some out as well w/o being flamed.

I can appreciate that you like her and her style and want to defend her. However, personally, I just don't see it. I just spent a bit of time looking at all of her posts on this board and I don't see ANY personal information, personal stories, a journal, or any indication at all that she needs support. And that's fine. I didn't need support my first time starting Atkins either. I read the book, followed it, lost 90 lbs in 7 months and that was that. That, however, is why I didn't join a support forum my first time around. Would I have been able to offer some good advice, sure, and maybe some people lost out on the benefit of the advice that I could have given them. However, I've found that most people want advice from people who know what it's like to be in their shoes. I could have easily said "just don't buy it" my first time around, because that's exactly what I did. However, I'm sensitive enough to the feelings of others that I wouldn't want it to seem like I was flaunting my easy success. A bit of personal information would go a LONG way to adding value to that advice, instead of just spouting off rules. IMHO

[pennink]

I have to say, when I came back to this board after a break and a gain, I found sooo many people were really rude. Now it's seems there's a positive revolution going on. We really have to remember that we're all this together and doing our best (whatever that might be).

Sometimes the 'this is what you have to do and if you don't you're a stupid loser' attitude comes out in a post here and there. That ticks me off. And when people don't realize that there are sooooo many plans within even Atkins and that what they did is not always the only way, bugs me to no end.

Sure, I follow Atkins 72 and don't count net I do gross carbs, but if you can lose on the newer versions, good for you. Then offer a suggestion, not a prescription.

Ya, I like to hear about people's trial and errors and a bit about how it worked for them, not just... 'do this' or go home, posts.

[MandaSue]

I can appreciate that you like her and her style and want to defend her. However, personally, I just don't see it. I just spent a bit of time looking at all of her posts on this board and I don't see ANY personal information, personal stories, a journal, or any indication at all that she needs support. And that's fine. I didn't need support my first time starting Atkins either. I read the book, followed it, lost 90 lbs in 7 months and that was that. That, however, is why I didn't join a support forum my first time around. Would I have been able to offer some good advice, sure, and maybe some people lost out on the benefit of the advice that I could have given them. However, I've found that most people want advice from people who know what it's like to be in their shoes. I could have easily said "just don't buy it" my first time around, because that's exactly what I did. However, I'm sensitive enough to the feelings of others that I wouldn't want it to seem like I was flaunting my easy success. A bit of personal information would go a LONG way to adding value to that advice, instead of just spouting off rules. IMHO

Agreed...goes along with my "valued resource" comment from earlier :idea: .

[penelope]

We also have to understand that everyone on this board is short on serotonin and we all handle it differently.

[MandaSue]

We also have to understand that everyone on this board is short on serotonin and we all handle it differently.


Not I my friend, my anti depressant helps me out in that department :) :lol:

[Aeryn]

We also have to understand that everyone on this board is short on serotonin and we all handle it differently.

LOL! Penelope, this is classic! Can I quote you in my signature?

I have to say, when I came back to this board after a break and a gain, I found sooo many people were really rude. Now it's seems there's a positive revolution going on.

It's funny that you mention this -- I'd just been thinking that when I go waaay back in the archives, the tone of the exchanges are incredibly different. Especially in the exercise subforums, there was definitely a more aggressive tone prevailing a few years ago!

I like this idea of a positive revolution, though. I have to admit, I'm usually more of a dry-and-dark-humor kind of gal, but in my virtual life, I will gladly see the cup as half full. I will be a cheerleader for the revolution! :cheer:

[penelope]

Not I my friend, my anti depressant helps me out in that department
Lucky you! :D

[MandaSue]

Lucky you! :D


Thanks...and I noticed that Pokey1168 was incorrect in saying "planned for a cheat" when referring this thread...it was actually started with the issue of how to get past eating and craving bread. Just wanted to point that out to ya so you didn't steer the "pollers" in the wrong direction.

[penelope]

Just wanted to point that out to ya so you didn't steer the "pollers" in the wrong direction.


Not that I want to stir (steer) the pollers in the wrong direction but is polled cattle means dehorned? I always wondered. What can I say, It is overcast and my mind fritters away. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[neverwhere]

I'm confused.

[MandaSue]

I'm way confused...I think there were some words missing in there somewhere.

[KoKo]

I'm confused.

I'm way confused.

our darling Penelope will do that to you from time to time :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ValerieL]

I'm new here also and I have seen many threads on here with others getting on others' cases regarding the whole "tough love" approach. If we didn't give tough love out here and there, then some ppl wouldn't listen and continue on a path of self-destruction in their weight loss journey. True, in some cases, it could be doled out in a more polite manner, but when you're sitting here reading things like "oh I cheated with this or that, or I want to plan a cheat day" it can get very frustrating and emotions spill out into our posts. Some people won't get a clue unless you spell things out plain and simple. Not everything in life is wrapped up in puppy kisses and baby giggles.

You know what, here's some tough love for you. If a person feels they can't post a reply to a newbie or question without letting frustrations and emotions turn into sarcasm & nastiness, it's time to stop posting replies for a while. Too many people are downright rude as they post in the anonymous world of the internet and then justify it by calling it tough love. It's not tough love, it's rudeness. Plain & simple.

Tough love is being direct, not allowing excuses and not enabling. It's not rudeness, nastiness and lack of understanding.

No one is asking for puppy kisses and baby giggles. I don't call manners, respect & compassion puppy kisses & baby giggles. Rudeness should be a bannable offense.

[Chubby_one]

You know what, here's some tough love for you. If a person feels they can't post a reply to a newbie or question without letting frustrations and emotions turn into sarcasm & nastiness, it's time to stop posting replies for a while. Too many people are downright rude as they post in the anonymous world of the internet and then justify it by calling it tough love. It's not tough love, it's rudeness. Plain & simple.

Tough love is being direct, not allowing excuses and not enabling. It's not rudeness, nastiness and lack of understanding.

No one is asking for puppy kisses and baby giggles. I don't call manners, respect & compassion puppy kisses & baby giggles. Rudeness should be a bannable offense.

Well said! :agree:

[MandaSue]

You know what, here's some tough love for you. If a person feels they can't post a reply to a newbie or question without letting frustrations and emotions turn into sarcasm & nastiness, it's time to stop posting replies for a while. Too many people are downright rude as they post in the anonymous world of the internet and then justify it by calling it tough love. It's not tough love, it's rudeness. Plain & simple.

Tough love is being direct, not allowing excuses and not enabling. It's not rudeness, nastiness and lack of understanding.

No one is asking for puppy kisses and baby giggles. I don't call manners, respect & compassion puppy kisses & baby giggles. Rudeness should be a bannable offense.


Couldn't of said it better...in fact, I rarely use my journal, but I'm going to paste this in there if you don't mind Valerie!

[Rose1271]

Wow! It's like high school all over again. All the seniors sticking together in a group. I was simply trying to help the op by giving her suggestions, but as she stated she didn't want a drawn out "informative answer"; giving her suggestions to different lc plans since she didn't specify one. And no, she didn't have to specify one, but it's much easier for posters to reply when a plan is known. My bad. I take it she didn't like my well-wishes at the end of the post either

Is my reply rude? Sorry. But so were some of the other ones replying back to me.

And MandaSue? On the other forum, if you re-read my post you'll realize that I didn't say the op had a "planned cheat".

This is what I was referring to:

We should always agree to anyone wanting a cheat day...

Carry on.....flame away! I'm gone.

[MandaSue]

http://bestsmileys.com/fire/1.gif

I'm out too...can't say anything more than what Valerie did.

[deirdra]

I was a huge bread and pasta addict and did not want to give them up, but when I did, life got much easier. I started by just removing wheat, which made me feel better and no longer nearly comatose in the afternoons. Reading Elson Haas MD's False Fat Diet encouraged me to try going grain-free, and it made it possible to gain control of my eating for the first time in 35 years of dieting, all quite effortlessly.

Grain-related cravings, whether I caved into them or not, always made me feel like an out-of-control pathetic excuse for a human being with no willpower (not unlike a drug addict or alcoholic).

When grain-free, the cravings and feelings of failure & hopelessness disappear and I have the appetite of a "normal" person and desire for good food - meat/poultry/fish, veggies and something "decadent" like mayo or full fat salad dressing rather than alternating between binging & deprevation.

[Wifezilla]

Grain-related cravings, whether I caved into them or not, always made me feel like an out-of-control pathetic excuse for a human being with no willpower (not unlike a drug addict or alcoholic).

Same here!!!

[MorganMac]

Reading this thread brought back an interesting memory.

When I was 13, my doctor put me on the Optifast diet - all liquid protein shakes for 3 months. Talk about a shock, lol.

I did ok on it, until one day.. I was sitting home alone, my mother was out shopping or something and I glanced over at the bread box.

I started thinking about the soft, smushy, white bread inside of that bread box and how lovely it was, how wonderful it tasted.

I didn't think about my brother's twinkies in the cabinet. I just wanted some BREAD!

So, I snuck a few slices and ran off to my room like a drug addict to hide and devour my precious slices of bread. I felt sneaky and like I was really getting away with something amazing.

After I ate them, that was it. I could not go a day without trying to sneak off with some bread. Plain, unadorned white bread.

I continued to lose weight on the Optifast even while sneaking bread for awhile - though not as much. But once it came time to adding foods back into my diet, it was all over.

Even to this day, when I get the urge to go off-plan, what I'm craving is bread. Not cookies, cakes or pies (which I do love.. really really) but I want a nice soft loaf of some wonderful artisanal country bread or something.

I'm going to do some reading about all this now and thanks for that article about addiction earlier in the thread! I'm convinced that (for me) bread is 'TEH EBILS!' :D

[lisabinil]

In DANDR Dr. A state that often what you are craving you usually have a food intolerance to or allergy such as wheat or yeast. Have you ever had allergy testing done?

[MandaSue]

In DANDR Dr. A state that often what you are craving you usually have a food intolerance to or allergy such as wheat or yeast. Have you ever had allergy testing done?


Hmmm, I don't recall that from DANDR...might have to go flip through some pages.

[SunnyCarol]

Hmmm, I don't recall that from DANDR...might have to go flip through some pages.
DANDR 1999 Chapter 14

[MorganMac]

In DANDR Dr. A state that often what you are craving you usually have a food intolerance to or allergy such as wheat or yeast. Have you ever had allergy testing done?

I haven't had any testing done, but avoiding wheat does make life a lot better. It's quite possible that I'm wheat / gluten intolerant or allergic.

I don't have "bread" cravings often, but when I do.. watch out! They're pretty rough!

I'll mention it to my MD next visit, see about having an allergy test.

[ValerieL]

I must be allergic to sugar! :lol:

[Chubby_one]

I must be allergic to sugar! :lol:
Good Lord, that's what I was thinking! ha

[Wifezilla]

I have actually had the skin prick test and reacted to wheat. Not enough for a full-blown allergy, but enough to register. That may have contributed to my cravings and issues with bread over the years.

[MorganMac]

I know it may sound funny, but there really is such a thing as a wheat allergy. Understanding it may help those of us that have an extraordinarily hard time dealing with it. Here are some links I've found that may offer good reading.

Wheat Allergy Information (http://www.foodallergyinitiative.org/section_home.cfm?section_id=3&sub_section_id=5)

Mayo Clinic Wheat Allergy Article (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/wheat-allergy/DS01002)

Wheat Intolerance (http://www.foodintol.com/wheat.asp)

There are a lot more links I've yet to read through. Very interesting stuff.

[ValerieL]

When I was about 19, I saw an allergist to help me with my asthma. He told me I was allergic to wheat, mold, milk and yeast (to name a few, they were the biggies).

I could basically eat meat and vegetables. Potatoes, but nothing of interest on them, like sour cream or cheese, so I didn't eat them. No cheese, no breads, no milk, no yogurt, no grains with yeast. At the same time, I had joined Overeaters Anonymous and was not eating sugar. Essentially, a pretty strict low-carb diet. I lost 80lbs in the blink of an eye.

I unfortunately gained it all back when I started experimenting with adding back foods and thought it was okay because I didn't feel any different when I ate them. I didn't realize that it was the low-carb aspect of the diet (I'd never heard of low-carb at the time) that made it so effective. So much wasted time, I had the answer 20 years before I found it again.

[Daisymaiz]

Grain-related cravings, whether I caved into them or not, always made me feel like an out-of-control pathetic excuse for a human being with no willpower (not unlike a drug addict or alcoholic).



I'm not sure how you meant this, so I apologize if I'm being overly sensitive, but having an addiction doesn't make someone a pathetic excuse for a human being. It has nothing to do with willpower either.