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Lee Olsen
Mon, Jul-09-07, 06:15
http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg http://img-
.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/11/shark191106_468x397.jpg

Even swim fins and a snorkle wouldn't have help these guys.

So much for Homo's imaginary-aquatic past, meanwhile, Mr.
Karoha runs over the savanna and catches a SC fat-deprived
kudu. The careful reader will notice no knife, no spear, no
hat, no sweat band, not even an ostrich-shell canteen.
http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1206/1206_samplings.html "In
fact, Australian Aborigines and various Native American and
African groups have traditionally practiced "persistence
hunting," chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat,
often for hours, until the animals overheat and collapse."

Marc Verha
Mon, Jul-09-07, 06:15
Op 09-07-2007 04:30, in artikel
1183948207.637372.137480@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg http:/-
> /img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/11/shark191106_468x397.jpg
> Even swim fins and a snorkle wouldn't have help these
> guys. So much for Homo's imaginary-aquatic past,
> meanwhile, Mr. Karoha runs over the savanna and catches a
> SC fat-deprived kudu.

Just answer, my little boy, where did the women & children get
their food: simply at the waterside (where they still love to
be on vacation) or running after your kudu?

Lee Olsen
Mon, Jul-09-07, 17:16
On Jul 9, 3:48 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 09-07-2007 04:30, in artikel
> 1183948207.637372.137...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> >http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg http:/-
> >/img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/11/shark191106_468x397.jpg
> >Even swim fins and a snorkle wouldn't have help these
> >guys. So much for Homo's imaginary-aquatic past,
> >meanwhile, Mr. Karoha runs over the savanna and catches a
> >SC fat-deprived kudu.
>
> Just answer, my little boy, where did the women & children
> get their food:

Ever see a chimp catch termites with a stick?

> simply at the waterside (where they still love to be on
> vacation)

"Stone tools are patterns of human behavior." Louis Leakey

It is now known, and was not known when Hardy was alive, that:
"The discovery of equally old localities in areas like Dana
Aoule and Busidima which are 10 km away from Kada Gona imply
that the first tool makers ranged in a wider area over the
ancient landscape (Semaw et al
2001)."

This confirms Isaac's (1977) observation that the entire
basins were utilized, whether the lakes were there or not.
There is no littorial pattern for the distribution of stone
tools. In fact, Acheulean sites are more likely to be found in
dry, sandy stream beds. Monkeys at Koobi Fora dig for water in
these dry places today and can get enough water to survive, no
reason early Homo wasn't smart enough to figure this out.

> or running after your kudu?

And running after land tortoises and finding ostrich eggs
out on the savanna at Gona 2.6 mya. (Semaw 2000, Roche et
al. 1999).

Lee Olsen
Mon, Jul-09-07, 17:16
On Jul 9, 9:36 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> My little boy, you're becoming more & more delusional. What
> has all your blabla below to do with the fact that human
> ancestors dispersed along the water??

You stupid fool, most animals require water, so what??????

Message-ID: <I%ENe.266469$5V4.165741@pd7tw3no> "The fossil
evidence of early hominds is positive evidence for occupation
of inland, woodland to open savannah environments. End of
story. Saying this does not 'contradict' hominids living
elsewhere only indicates you have mastered one of the great
logical fallacies. You can't prove a negative so its no use
asking. What you need to do is get positive evidence for
coastal, Indian Ocean hominds. Your inability to understand
this basic point is what will forever confine you to the
lunatic fringe." Rick Wagler (nice job Rick)

>
> _____
>
> Op 09-07-2007 15:20, in artikel
> 1183987216.739462.53...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 3:48 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
> > wrote:
> >> Op 09-07-2007 04:30, in artikel
> >> 1183948207.637372.137...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com,
> >> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> schreef:
>
> >>>http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg http:-
> >>>//img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/11/shark191106_468x397.-
> >>>jpg Even swim fins and a snorkle wouldn't have help these
> >>>guys. So much for Homo's imaginary-aquatic past,
> >>>meanwhile, Mr. Karoha runs over the savanna and catches a
> >>>SC fat-deprived kudu.
>
> >> Just answer, my little boy, where did the women &
> >> children get their food:
>
> > Ever see a chimp catch termites with a stick?
>
> >> simply at the waterside (where they still love to be on
> >> vacation)
>
> > "Stone tools are patterns of human behavior." Louis Leakey
>
> > It is now known, and was not known when Hardy was alive,
> > that: "The discovery of equally old localities in areas
> > like Dana Aoule and Busidima which are 10 km away from
> > Kada Gona imply that the first tool makers ranged in a
> > wider area over the ancient landscape (Semaw et al
> > 2001)."
>
> > This confirms Isaac's (1977) observation that the entire
> > basins were utilized, whether the lakes were there or not.
> > There is no littorial pattern for the distribution of
> > stone tools. In fact, Acheulean sites are more likely to
> > be found in dry, sandy stream beds. Monkeys at Koobi Fora
> > dig for water in these dry places today and can get enough
> > water to survive, no reason early Homo wasn't smart enough
> > to figure this out.
>
> >> or running after your kudu?
>
> > And running after land tortoises and finding ostrich eggs
> > out on the savanna at Gona 2.6 mya. (Semaw 2000, Roche et
> > al. 1999).- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Lee Olsen
Mon, Jul-09-07, 17:16
On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
>
>
> > You stupid fool, most animals require water, so what??????

Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the result,
shark has dinner.
http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg

Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result, Mr. Karoha
has a nice dinner. http://tinyurl.com/32ryet

AAT is phantasy.

Marc Verha
Mon, Jul-09-07, 17:16
My little boy, you're becoming more & more delusional. What
has all your blabla below to do with the fact that human
ancestors dispersed along the water??

_____

Op 09-07-2007 15:20, in artikel
1183987216.739462.53040@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee Olsen
<paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jul 9, 3:48 am, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Op 09-07-2007 04:30, in artikel
>> 1183948207.637372.137...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg http:/-
>>> /img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/11/shark191106_468x397.jpg
>>> Even swim fins and a snorkle wouldn't have help these
>>> guys. So much for Homo's imaginary-aquatic past,
>>> meanwhile, Mr. Karoha runs over the savanna and catches a
>>> SC fat-deprived kudu.
>>
>> Just answer, my little boy, where did the women & children
>> get their food:
>
> Ever see a chimp catch termites with a stick?
>
>> simply at the waterside (where they still love to be on
>> vacation)
>
> "Stone tools are patterns of human behavior." Louis Leakey
>
> It is now known, and was not known when Hardy was alive,
> that: "The discovery of equally old localities in areas like
> Dana Aoule and Busidima which are 10 km away from Kada Gona
> imply that the first tool makers ranged in a wider area over
> the ancient landscape (Semaw et al
> 2001)."
>
> This confirms Isaac's (1977) observation that the entire
> basins were utilized, whether the lakes were there or not.
> There is no littorial pattern for the distribution of stone
> tools. In fact, Acheulean sites are more likely to be found
> in dry, sandy stream beds. Monkeys at Koobi Fora dig for
> water in these dry places today and can get enough water to
> survive, no reason early Homo wasn't smart enough to figure
> this out.
>
>
>> or running after your kudu?
>
> And running after land tortoises and finding ostrich eggs
> out on the savanna at Gona 2.6 mya. (Semaw 2000, Roche et
> al. 1999).

Marc Verha
Mon, Jul-09-07, 17:16
Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
1184004269.158197.274170@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so what??????

Marc Verha
Mon, Jul-09-07, 17:16
Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha runs after
kudus, our ancestors were kudu runners...

_______

Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
1184010003.599845.293430@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>>
>>
>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so what??????
>
> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the result,
> shark has dinner.
> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>
> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result, Mr.
> Karoha has a nice dinner. http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>
> AAT is phantasy.

Marc Verha
Tue, Jul-10-07, 06:16
Prof.Tobias http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm ³Š
if ever our earliest ancestors were savannah dwellers, we must
have been the worst, the most profligate urinators there²

_______

Op 10-07-2007 00:29, in artikel
1184020192.290748.14050@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee Olsen
<paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
>> 1184010003.599845.293...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
>>>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
>>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so
>>>>> what??????
>>
>>> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the result,
>>> shark has dinner.
>>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>>
>>> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result, Mr.
>>> Karoha has a nice dinner. http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>>
>>> AAT is phantasy.
>
>> Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha runs after
>> kudus, our ancestors were kudu runners...

> Semaw (2000:1210) " The recent cut-mark data from Bouri
> indicates that early hominids c. 2.5 Ma began incorporating
> some amount of high nutrient meat in their diet."

Why, my boy, wouldn't they butcher drowned bovids at
riverbanks? Good illustration of riverside adaptations. Thanks
for the argument.

> Think the lions just gave it to them, doughboy? Think the
> lions were making the tools out there on the hot savanna
> where Homo couldn't live?

??? You're crazy.

Lee Olsen
Tue, Jul-10-07, 17:16
On Jul 10, 2:19 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:

> Prof.Tobiashttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm

You have the audacity to direct us to a another personal
opinion web page of "My ideas"?? A secondary source from a guy
who's first language is probably not English for a opinion of
what he thought Tobias said? You are a joke Verhaegen.

> =B3=8A if ever our earliest ancestors were savannah
> dwellers, we must ha=
ve been
> the worst, the most profligate urinators there=B2

Here is a photo of a most profligate urinator on the savanna,
a dead kudu.

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.natur-
alhistorymag.c= om/1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact,
Australian Aborigines and various Native American and African
groups have traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat, often for
hours, until the animals overheat and collapse."

Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and better
kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.

>
> _______
>
> Op 10-07-2007 00:29, in artikel
> 1184020192.290748.14...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
> >> 1184010003.599845.293...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
> >> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> schreef:
>
> >>> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
> >>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> >>>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
> >>>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
> >>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>> schreef:
>
> >>>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so
> >>>>> what??????
>
> >>> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the
> >>> result, shark has dinner.
> >>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>
> >>> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result, Mr.
> >>> Karoha has a nice dinner. http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>
> >>> AAT is phantasy.
>
> >> Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha runs
> >> after kudus, our ancestors were kudu runners...
> > Semaw (2000:1210) " The recent cut-mark data from Bouri
> > indicates that early hominids c. 2.5 Ma began
> > incorporating some amount of high nutrient meat in their
> > diet."
>
> Why, my boy, wouldn't they butcher drowned bovids at
> riverbanks?

What would that have to do with anything? Do drowned bovids
mean they were littorial? Inform a bit before spouting off.

Davidson, I. & Solomon, S. (1990) Was OH 27 the victim of a
crocodile attack?. In Solomon, S., Davidson, I. & Watson, D.
(eds) Problem Solving in Taphonomy: Archaeological &
Palaeontological Studies from Europe, Africa & Oceania. Tempus
2. Anthropology Museum, University of Queensland, St. Lucia,
Queensland. 198 - 206.

> Good illustration of riverside adaptations. Thanks for the
> argument.

"Here's a point to consider when evaluating AAT. I did not
learn this point from some academic overlord with an anti-AAT
agenda; I learned it while trying to avoid becoming crocodile
food in Africa. When I spent several months with a team at
Lake Turkana, Kenya, investigating some of the most important
early hominid sites in the world, one of our overriding
concerns -- while swimming, bathing, or catching fish with a
net -- was to watch out for crocodiles in the shallows. A croc
can be on you, crush your legs in its jaws, and drag you under
to drown before you have time to screech for help. The fact
that crocodiles co-existed in time and space with early
hominids is a colossal blow to AAT, which does not explain
what advantages early humans would have gained by spending
time in crocodile-populated waters; an environment where they
could not make fires, throw stones or sticks, use other tools,
or have any hope whatever of escaping the most common
predator. A troop of early hominids wading in a lakeshore or
swampy forest would best be described as a crocodile banquet.
The cute, feel-good images of babies swimming freely in a
pool, shown in the AAT video, have nothing to do with the real
situation of predator avoidance in Africa. Ask the Dasenich or
Turkana people who live around Lake Turkana: only visiting
maniacs swim in that lake." Cameron M. Smith

>
> > Think the lions just gave it to them, doughboy? Think the
> > lions were making the tools out there on the hot savanna
> > where Homo couldn't live?
>
> ??? =20 You're crazy.

Lip service, only argument you ever had.

Lee Olsen
Tue, Jul-10-07, 17:16
On Jul 10, 12:28 pm, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 10-07-2007 14:28, in artikel
> 1184070513.219359.152...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> > On Jul 10, 2:19 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Prof.Tobiashttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.h-
> >> tm =B3=8A if ever our earliest ancestors were savannah
> >> dwellers, we must=
have been
> >> the worst, the most profligate urinators there=B2
>
> > Here is a photo of a most profligate urinator on the
> > savanna, a dead kudu.
>
> Like all savanna mammals kudus almost don't urinate.

Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and better
kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.

So you are now claiming, even if Tobias did say such a stupid
thing, he was wrong anyway?

> Humans are the profligate urinators, forgot?

> Read Tobias, my boy, and donet forget to run after
> your kudu.

Look at the dead kudu doughboy, it says it all. Homo is better
adapted to the savanna than this guy is to the sea:

http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg

Looks like he needs some better swim fins.

>

> _____
>
>
>
>
>
> >http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.na-
> >turalhistor...
> > 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines
> > and various Native American and African groups have
> > traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
> > chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat,
> > often for hours, until the animals overheat and
> > collapse."

>
> > Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
> > better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>
> >> _______
>
> >> Op 10-07-2007 00:29, in artikel
> >> 1184020192.290748.14...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
> >> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> schreef:
>
> >>> On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> >>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
> >>>> Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
> >>>> 1184010003.599845.293...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
> >>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>> schreef:
>
> >>>>> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
> >>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> >>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
> >>>>>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.co-
> >>>>>> m, Lee Olsen
> >>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>>>> schreef:
>
> >>>>>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so
> >>>>>>> what??????
>
> >>>>> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the
> >>>>> result, shark h=
as
> >>>>> dinner.
> >>>>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>
> >>>>> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result,
> >>>>> Mr. Karoha has a nice dinner.
> >>>>> http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>
> >>>>> AAT is phantasy.
>
> >>>> Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha runs
> >>>> after kudus, o=
ur
> >>>> ancestors were kudu runners...
> >>> Semaw (2000:1210) " The recent cut-mark data from Bouri
> >>> indicates that early hominids c. 2.5 Ma began
> >>> incorporating some amount of high nutrient meat in their
> >>> diet."
>
> >> Why, my boy, wouldn't they butcher drowned bovids at
> >> riverbanks?
>
> > What would that have to do with anything? Do drowned
> > bovids mean they were littorial? Inform a bit before
> > spouting off.
>
> > Davidson, I. & Solomon, S. (1990) Was OH 27 the
> > victim of a crocodile attack?. In Solomon, S.,
> > Davidson, I. & Watson, D. (eds) Problem Solving in
> > Taphonomy: Archaeological & Palaeontological Studies
> > from Europe, Africa & Oceania. Tempus 2. Anthropology
> > Museum, University of Queensland, St. Lucia,
> > Queensland. 198 - 206.
>
> >> Good illustration of riverside adaptations. Thanks for
> >> the argument.
>
> > "Here's a point to consider when evaluating AAT. I did not
> > learn this point from some academic overlord with an
> > anti-AAT agenda; I learned it while trying to avoid
> > becoming crocodile food in Africa. When I spent several
> > months with a team at Lake Turkana, Kenya, investigating
> > some of the most important early hominid sites in the
> > world, one of our overriding concerns -- while swimming,
> > bathing, or catching fish with a net -- was to watch out
> > for crocodiles in the shallows. A croc can be on you,
> > crush your legs in its jaws, and drag you under to drown
> > before you have time to screech for help. The fact that
> > crocodiles co-existed in time and space with early
> > hominids is a colossal blow to AAT, which does not explain
> > what advantages early humans would have gained by spending
> > time in crocodile-populated waters; an environment where
> > they could not make fires, throw stones or sticks, use
> > other tools, or have any hope whatever of escaping the
> > most common predator. A troop of early hominids wading in
> > a lakeshore or swampy forest would best be described as a
> > crocodile banquet. The cute, feel-good images of babies
> > swimming freely in a pool, shown in the AAT video, have
> > nothing to do with the real situation of predator
> > avoidance in Africa. Ask the Dasenich or Turkana people
> > who live around Lake Turkana: only visiting maniacs swim
> > in that lake." Cameron M. Smith
>
> >>> Think the lions just gave it to them, doughboy? Think
> >>> the lions were making the tools out there on the hot
> >>> savanna where Homo couldn't live?
>
> >> ??? =20 You're crazy.
>
> > Lip service, only argument you ever had.- Hide quoted
> > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Marc Verha
Tue, Jul-10-07, 17:16
Op 10-07-2007 14:28, in artikel
1184070513.219359.152150@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jul 10, 2:19 am, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
>
>> Prof.Tobiashttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.h-
>> tm ³Š if ever our earliest ancestors were savannah
>> dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most
>> profligate urinators there²
>
> Here is a photo of a most profligate urinator on the
> savanna, a dead kudu.

Like all savanna mammals kudus almost don't urinate. Humans
are the profligate urinators, forgot? Read Tobias, my boy, and
donet forget to run after your kudu.

_____

>
> http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.nat-
> uralhistorymag.com/
> 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines and
> various Native American and African groups have
> traditionally practiced "persistence hunting," chasing
> antelopes or other game in the midday heat, often for
> hours, until the animals overheat and collapse."
>
> Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
> better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>
>
>>
>> _______
>>
>> Op 10-07-2007 00:29, in artikel
>> 1184020192.290748.14...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
>>>> 1184010003.599845.293...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
>>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
>>>>>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
>>>>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so
>>>>>>> what??????
>>
>>>>> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the
>>>>> result, shark has dinner.
>>>>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>>
>>>>> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result, Mr.
>>>>> Karoha has a nice dinner. http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>>
>>>>> AAT is phantasy.
>>
>>>> Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha runs
>>>> after kudus, our ancestors were kudu runners...
>>> Semaw (2000:1210) " The recent cut-mark data from Bouri
>>> indicates that early hominids c. 2.5 Ma began
>>> incorporating some amount of high nutrient meat in their
>>> diet."
>>
>> Why, my boy, wouldn't they butcher drowned bovids at
>> riverbanks?
>
> What would that have to do with anything? Do drowned bovids
> mean they were littorial? Inform a bit before spouting off.
>
> Davidson, I. & Solomon, S. (1990) Was OH 27 the victim of a
> crocodile attack?. In Solomon, S., Davidson, I. & Watson, D.
> (eds) Problem Solving in Taphonomy: Archaeological &
> Palaeontological Studies from Europe, Africa & Oceania.
> Tempus 2. Anthropology Museum, University of Queensland, St.
> Lucia, Queensland. 198 - 206.
>
>
>> Good illustration of riverside adaptations. Thanks for the
>> argument.
>
> "Here's a point to consider when evaluating AAT. I did not
> learn this point from some academic overlord with an
> anti-AAT agenda; I learned it while trying to avoid becoming
> crocodile food in Africa. When I spent several months with a
> team at Lake Turkana, Kenya, investigating some of the most
> important early hominid sites in the world, one of our
> overriding concerns -- while swimming, bathing, or catching
> fish with a net -- was to watch out for crocodiles in the
> shallows. A croc can be on you, crush your legs in its jaws,
> and drag you under to drown before you have time to screech
> for help. The fact that crocodiles co-existed in time and
> space with early hominids is a colossal blow to AAT, which
> does not explain what advantages early humans would have
> gained by spending time in crocodile-populated waters; an
> environment where they could not make fires, throw stones or
> sticks, use other tools, or have any hope whatever of
> escaping the most common predator. A troop of early hominids
> wading in a lakeshore or swampy forest would best be
> described as a crocodile banquet. The cute, feel-good images
> of babies swimming freely in a pool, shown in the AAT video,
> have nothing to do with the real situation of predator
> avoidance in Africa. Ask the Dasenich or Turkana people who
> live around Lake Turkana: only visiting maniacs swim in that
> lake." Cameron M. Smith
>
>>
>>> Think the lions just gave it to them, doughboy? Think the
>>> lions were making the tools out there on the hot savanna
>>> where Homo couldn't live?
>>
>> ??? You're crazy.
>
> Lip service, only argument you ever had.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Lee Olsen
Wed, Jul-11-07, 17:16
On Jul 11, 12:29 pm, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:

>
> Op 10-07-2007 22:50, in artikel
> 1184100604.344927.253...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 10, 12:28 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> > <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> >> Op 10-07-2007 14:28, in artikel
> >> 1184070513.219359.152...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
> >> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> schreef:
>
> >>> On Jul 10, 2:19 am, Marc Verhaegen
> >>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
> >>>> Prof.Tobiashttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere-
> >>>> .htm =B3=8A if ever our earliest ancestors were
> >>>> savannah dwellers, we mu=
st have
> >>>> been the worst, the most profligate urinators there=B2
>
> >>> Here is a photo of a most profligate urinator on the
> >>> savanna, a dead kudu.
>
> >> Like all savanna mammals kudus almost don't urinate.
>
> > Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
> > better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>
> > So you are now claiming, even if Tobias did say such a
> > stupid thing, he was wrong anyway?
>
> >> Humans are the profligate urinators, forgot?
>
> >> Read Tobias, my boy, and donet forget to run after your
> >> kudu.
>
> > Look at the dead kudu doughboy, it says it all. Homo is
> > better adapted to the savanna than this guy is to the sea:
>
> >http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>
> > Looks like he needs some better swim fins.
>
> >> _____
>
> >>>http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.-
> >>>naturalhistor.=
.=2E
> >>> 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines
> >>> and various Native American and African groups have
> >>> traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
> >>> chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat,
> >>> often for hours, until the animals overheat and
> >>> collapse."
>
> >>> Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
> >>> better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>
> >>>> _______
>
> >>>> Op 10-07-2007 00:29, in artikel
> >>>> 1184020192.290748.14...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
> >>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>> schreef:
>
> >>>>> On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> >>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
> >>>>>> 1184010003.599845.293...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.co-
> >>>>>> m, Lee Olsen
> >>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>>>> schreef:
>
> >>>>>>> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
> >>>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
> >>>>>>>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.-
> >>>>>>>> com, Lee Olsen
> >>>>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> schreef:
>
> >>>>>>>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so
> >>>>>>>>> what??????
>
> >>>>>>> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the
> >>>>>>> result, shark=
has
> >>>>>>> dinner.
> >>>>>>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>
> >>>>>>> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result,
> >>>>>>> Mr. Karoha ha=
s a
> >>>>>>> nice dinner. http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>
> >>>>>>> AAT is phantasy.
>
> >>>>>> Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha runs
> >>>>>> after kudus,=
our
> >>>>>> ancestors were kudu runners...
> >>>>> Semaw (2000:1210) " The recent cut-mark data from
> >>>>> Bouri indicates that early hominids c. 2.5 Ma began
> >>>>> incorporating some amount of hi=
gh
> >>>>> nutrient meat in their diet."
>
> >>>> Why, my boy, wouldn't they butcher drowned bovids at
> >>>> riverbanks?
>
> >>> What would that have to do with anything? Do drowned
> >>> bovids mean they were littorial? Inform a bit before
> >>> spouting off.
>
> >>> Davidson, I. & Solomon, S. (1990) Was OH 27 the victim
> >>> of a crocodile attack?. In Solomon, S., Davidson, I. &
> >>> Watson, D. (eds) Problem Solving in Taphonomy:
> >>> Archaeological & Palaeontological Studies from Europe,
> >>> Africa & Oceania. Tempus 2. Anthropology Museum,
> >>> University of Queensland, St. Lucia, Queensland. 198 -
> >>> 206.
>
> >>>> Good illustration of riverside adaptations. Thanks for
> >>>> the argument.
>
> >>> "Here's a point to consider when evaluating AAT. I did
> >>> not learn this point from some academic overlord with an
> >>> anti-AAT agenda; I learned it while trying to avoid
> >>> becoming crocodile food in Africa. When I spent several
> >>> months with a team at Lake Turkana, Kenya, investigating
> >>> some of the most important early hominid sites in the
> >>> world, one of our overriding concerns -- while swimming,
> >>> bathing, or catching fish with a net -- was to watch out
> >>> for crocodiles in the shallows. A croc can be on you,
> >>> crush your legs in its jaws, and drag you under to drown
> >>> before you have time to screech for help. The fact that
> >>> crocodiles co-existed in time and space with early
> >>> hominids is a colossal blow to AAT, which does not
> >>> explain what advantages early humans would have gained
> >>> by spending time in crocodile-populated waters; an
> >>> environment where they could not make fires, throw
> >>> stones or sticks, use other tools, or have any hope
> >>> whatever of escaping the most common predator. A troop
> >>> of early hominids wading in a lakeshore or swampy forest
> >>> would best be described as a crocodile banquet. The
> >>> cute, feel-good images of babies swimming freely in a
> >>> pool, shown in the AAT video, have nothing to do with
> >>> the real situation of predator avoidance in Africa. Ask
> >>> the Dasenich or Turkana people who live around Lake
> >>> Turkana: only visiting maniacs swim in that lake."
> >>> Cameron M. Smith
>
> >>>>> Think the lions just gave it to them, doughboy? Think
> >>>>> the lions were making the tools out there on the hot
> >>>>> savanna where Homo couldn't live?
>
> >>>> ??? =20 You're crazy.
>
> >>> Lip service, only argument you ever had.

> My boy, Mr.X running after kudus does not prove your savanna
> nonsense: it would be the same as saying that some hman
> walked on the moon, our ancest=
ors
> lived on the moon.

Flawed logic doughboy, Homo wasn't on the moon when tools
were being used to cut up antelope and land tortoises 2.6
mya at Gona.

http://tinyurl.com/m3nzt

"A run around the park or on a treadmill in the gym is the
best most of us manage these days. We should do better really,
given that our body shape - upright, with large buttocks -
apparently evolved for running. Anthropologist Dan Lieberman
of Harvard University suggested two years ago that our body
shape evolved to allow our ancestors to run long distances,
and reach animal carcasses before other scavengers. After
observing modern hunter-gatherers from the !Xo and /Gwi tribes
in Botswana, Louis Liebenberg, an anthropologist from Cape
Town, South Africa, has suggested that the next evolutionary
step was to become good at endurance running in order to run
down prey. Liebenberg's observations suggest that chasing
animals until they collapse from exhaustion yields more meat
per hunt than hunting with spears or a bow and arrow. Despite
that, the limited number of prey species that can be hunted in
this way, and the physically demanding nature of the chase,
mean that the practice is dying out, says Liebenberg, who will
be publishing his findings in Current Anthropology."

Marc Verha
Wed, Jul-11-07, 17:16
My boy, Mr.X running after kudus does not prove your savanna
nonsense: it would be the same as saying that some hman walked
on the moon, our ancestors lived on the moon. A bit of logic,
please (although we all know savanna believers are completely
devoid of it). Just think a bit: what is easier: collect food
from the waterside or from running after kudus?

_____

Op 10-07-2007 22:50, in artikel
1184100604.344927.253080@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jul 10, 12:28 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Op 10-07-2007 14:28, in artikel
>> 1184070513.219359.152...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>>> On Jul 10, 2:19 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Prof.Tobiashttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.h-
>>>> tm ³Š if ever our earliest ancestors were savannah
>>>> dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most
>>>> profligate urinators there²
>>
>>> Here is a photo of a most profligate urinator on the
>>> savanna, a dead kudu.
>>
>> Like all savanna mammals kudus almost don't urinate.
>
> Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
> better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>
>
> So you are now claiming, even if Tobias did say such a
> stupid thing, he was wrong anyway?
>
>> Humans are the profligate urinators, forgot?
>
>> Read Tobias, my boy, and donet forget to run after
>> your kudu.
>
>
> Look at the dead kudu doughboy, it says it all. Homo is
> better adapted to the savanna than this guy is to the sea:
>
> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>
> Looks like he needs some better swim fins.
>
>>
>
>> _____
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.n-
>>> aturalhistor...
>>> 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines
>>> and various Native American and African groups have
>>> traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
>>> chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat,
>>> often for hours, until the animals overheat and
>>> collapse."
>
>
>>
>>> Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
>>> better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>>
>>>> _______
>>
>>>> Op 10-07-2007 00:29, in artikel
>>>> 1184020192.290748.14...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
>>>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>> On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen
>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
>>>>>> 1184010003.599845.293...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
>>>>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
>>>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
>>>>>>>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.co-
>>>>>>>> m, Lee Olsen
>>>>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>>>>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so
>>>>>>>>> what??????
>>
>>>>>>> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the
>>>>>>> result, shark has dinner.
>>>>>>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result,
>>>>>>> Mr. Karoha has a nice dinner.
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>>
>>>>>>> AAT is phantasy.
>>
>>>>>> Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha runs
>>>>>> after kudus, our ancestors were kudu runners...
>>>>> Semaw (2000:1210) " The recent cut-mark data from Bouri
>>>>> indicates that early hominids c. 2.5 Ma began
>>>>> incorporating some amount of high nutrient meat in their
>>>>> diet."
>>
>>>> Why, my boy, wouldn't they butcher drowned bovids at
>>>> riverbanks?
>>
>>> What would that have to do with anything? Do drowned
>>> bovids mean they were littorial? Inform a bit before
>>> spouting off.
>>
>>> Davidson, I. & Solomon, S. (1990) Was OH 27 the
>>> victim of a crocodile attack?. In Solomon, S.,
>>> Davidson, I. & Watson, D. (eds) Problem Solving in
>>> Taphonomy: Archaeological & Palaeontological Studies
>>> from Europe, Africa & Oceania. Tempus 2. Anthropology
>>> Museum, University of Queensland, St. Lucia,
>>> Queensland. 198 - 206.
>>
>>>> Good illustration of riverside adaptations. Thanks for
>>>> the argument.
>>
>>> "Here's a point to consider when evaluating AAT. I did not
>>> learn this point from some academic overlord with an
>>> anti-AAT agenda; I learned it while trying to avoid
>>> becoming crocodile food in Africa. When I spent several
>>> months with a team at Lake Turkana, Kenya, investigating
>>> some of the most important early hominid sites in the
>>> world, one of our overriding concerns -- while swimming,
>>> bathing, or catching fish with a net -- was to watch out
>>> for crocodiles in the shallows. A croc can be on you,
>>> crush your legs in its jaws, and drag you under to drown
>>> before you have time to screech for help. The fact that
>>> crocodiles co-existed in time and space with early
>>> hominids is a colossal blow to AAT, which does not explain
>>> what advantages early humans would have gained by spending
>>> time in crocodile-populated waters; an environment where
>>> they could not make fires, throw stones or sticks, use
>>> other tools, or have any hope whatever of escaping the
>>> most common predator. A troop of early hominids wading in
>>> a lakeshore or swampy forest would best be described as a
>>> crocodile banquet. The cute, feel-good images of babies
>>> swimming freely in a pool, shown in the AAT video, have
>>> nothing to do with the real situation of predator
>>> avoidance in Africa. Ask the Dasenich or Turkana people
>>> who live around Lake Turkana: only visiting maniacs swim
>>> in that lake." Cameron M. Smith
>>
>>>>> Think the lions just gave it to them, doughboy? Think
>>>>> the lions were making the tools out there on the hot
>>>>> savanna where Homo couldn't live?
>>
>>>> ??? You're crazy.
>>
>>> Lip service, only argument you ever had.- Hide quoted
>>> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

Marc Verha
Thu, Jul-12-07, 06:16
Op 11-07-2007 22:31, in artikel
1184185876.528433.22130@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jul 11, 12:29 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
>>
>> Op 10-07-2007 22:50, in artikel
>> 1184100604.344927.253...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 10, 12:28 pm, Marc Verhaegen
>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>>> Op 10-07-2007 14:28, in artikel
>>>> 1184070513.219359.152...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
>>>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>> On Jul 10, 2:19 am, Marc Verhaegen
>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Prof.Tobiashttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere-
>>>>>> .htm ³Š if ever our earliest ancestors were savannah
>>>>>> dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most
>>>>>> profligate urinators there²
>>
>>>>> Here is a photo of a most profligate urinator on the
>>>>> savanna, a dead kudu.
>>
>>>> Like all savanna mammals kudus almost don't urinate.
>>
>>> Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
>>> better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>>
>>> So you are now claiming, even if Tobias did say such a
>>> stupid thing, he was wrong anyway?
>>
>>>> Humans are the profligate urinators, forgot?
>>
>>>> Read Tobias, my boy, and donet forget to run after your
>>>> kudu.
>>
>>> Look at the dead kudu doughboy, it says it all. Homo is
>>> better adapted to the savanna than this guy is to the sea:
>>
>>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>>
>>> Looks like he needs some better swim fins.
>>
>>>> _____
>>
>>>>> http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www-
>>>>> .naturalhistor...
>
>>>>> 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines
>>>>> and various Native American and African groups have
>>>>> traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
>>>>> chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat,
>>>>> often for hours, until the animals overheat and
>>>>> collapse."
>>
>>>>> Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
>>>>> better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>>
>>>>>> _______
>>
>>>>>> Op 10-07-2007 00:29, in artikel
>>>>>> 1184020192.290748.14...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
>>>>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen
>>>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
>>>>>>>> 1184010003.599845.293...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.co-
>>>>>>>> m, Lee Olsen
>>>>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
>>>>>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
>>>>>>>>>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.-
>>>>>>>>>> com, Lee Olsen
>>>>>>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so
>>>>>>>>>>> what??????
>>
>>>>>>>>> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the
>>>>>>>>> result, shark has dinner.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu. Result,
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Karoha has a nice dinner.
>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>>
>>>>>>>>> AAT is phantasy.
>>
>>>>>>>> Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha runs
>>>>>>>> after kudus, our ancestors were kudu runners...
>>>>>>> Semaw (2000:1210) " The recent cut-mark data from
>>>>>>> Bouri indicates that early hominids c. 2.5 Ma began
>>>>>>> incorporating some amount of high nutrient meat in
>>>>>>> their diet."
>>
>>>>>> Why, my boy, wouldn't they butcher drowned bovids at
>>>>>> riverbanks?
>>
>>>>> What would that have to do with anything? Do drowned
>>>>> bovids mean they were littorial? Inform a bit before
>>>>> spouting off.
>>
>>>>> Davidson, I. & Solomon, S. (1990) Was OH 27 the victim
>>>>> of a crocodile attack?. In Solomon, S., Davidson, I. &
>>>>> Watson, D. (eds) Problem Solving in Taphonomy:
>>>>> Archaeological & Palaeontological Studies from Europe,
>>>>> Africa & Oceania. Tempus 2. Anthropology Museum,
>>>>> University of Queensland, St. Lucia, Queensland. 198 -
>>>>> 206.
>>
>>>>>> Good illustration of riverside adaptations. Thanks for
>>>>>> the argument.
>>
>>>>> "Here's a point to consider when evaluating AAT. I did
>>>>> not learn this point from some academic overlord with an
>>>>> anti-AAT agenda; I learned it while trying to avoid
>>>>> becoming crocodile food in Africa. When I spent several
>>>>> months with a team at Lake Turkana, Kenya, investigating
>>>>> some of the most important early hominid sites in the
>>>>> world, one of our overriding concerns -- while swimming,
>>>>> bathing, or catching fish with a net -- was to watch out
>>>>> for crocodiles in the shallows. A croc can be on you,
>>>>> crush your legs in its jaws, and drag you under to drown
>>>>> before you have time to screech for help. The fact that
>>>>> crocodiles co-existed in time and space with early
>>>>> hominids is a colossal blow to AAT, which does not
>>>>> explain what advantages early humans would have gained
>>>>> by spending time in crocodile-populated waters; an
>>>>> environment where they could not make fires, throw
>>>>> stones or sticks, use other tools, or have any hope
>>>>> whatever of escaping the most common predator. A troop
>>>>> of early hominids wading in a lakeshore or swampy forest
>>>>> would best be described as a crocodile banquet. The
>>>>> cute, feel-good images of babies swimming freely in a
>>>>> pool, shown in the AAT video, have nothing to do with
>>>>> the real situation of predator avoidance in Africa. Ask
>>>>> the Dasenich or Turkana people who live around Lake
>>>>> Turkana: only visiting maniacs swim in that lake."
>>>>> Cameron M. Smith
>>
>>>>>>> Think the lions just gave it to them, doughboy? Think
>>>>>>> the lions were making the tools out there on the hot
>>>>>>> savanna where Homo couldn't live?
>>
>>>>>> ??? You're crazy.
>>
>>>>> Lip service, only argument you ever had.
>
>> My boy, Mr.X running after kudus does not prove your
>> savanna nonsense: it would be the same as saying that some
>> hman walked on the moon, our ancestors lived on the moon.
>
> Flawed logic doughboy, Homo wasn't on the moon when tools
> were being used to cut up antelope and land tortoises 2.6
> mya at Gona.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/m3nzt
>
> "A run around the park or on a treadmill in the gym is the
> best most of us manage these days. We should do better
> really, given that our body shape - upright, with large
> buttocks - apparently evolved for running.

Our savanna boy believes dogs & horses & kangaroos run
upright?? Yes, my boy, no doubt, my boy... (Savanna
believers are becoming more & more stupid... Better not
contradict them...)

My little boy, we all know that Homo used stone tools at
beaches & riverbanks to butcher stranded whales & drowned
bovids. This extreme dexterity & tool use confirms our
waterside adatpations, of course:

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&vid-
eoid=12593669

Lee Olsen
Thu, Jul-12-07, 17:16
On Jul 12, 12:30 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 11-07-2007 22:31, in artikel
> 1184185876.528433.22...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 11, 12:29 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> > <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
> >> Op 10-07-2007 22:50, in artikel
> >> 1184100604.344927.253...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, Lee
> >> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> schreef:
>
> >>> On Jul 10, 12:28 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> >>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> >>>> Op 10-07-2007 14:28, in artikel
> >>>> 1184070513.219359.152...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
> >>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>> schreef:
>
> >>>>> On Jul 10, 2:19 am, Marc Verhaegen
> >>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Prof.Tobiashttp://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthe-
> >>>>>> re.htm =B3=8A if ever our earliest ancestors were
> >>>>>> savannah dwellers, we =
must have
> >>>>>> been the worst, the most profligate urinators
> >>>>>> there=B2
>
> >>>>> Here is a photo of a most profligate urinator on the
> >>>>> savanna, a dead kudu.
>
> >>>> Like all savanna mammals kudus almost don't urinate.
>
> >>> Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
> >>> better kidneys in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>
> >>> So you are now claiming, even if Tobias did say such a
> >>> stupid thing, he was wrong anyway?
>
> >>>> Humans are the profligate urinators, forgot?
>
> >>>> Read Tobias, my boy, and donet forget to run after your
> >>>> kudu.
>
> >>> Look at the dead kudu doughboy, it says it all. Homo is
> >>> better adapted to the savanna than this guy is to the
> >>> sea:
>
> >>>http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg
>
> >>> Looks like he needs some better swim fins.
>
> >>>> _____
>
> >>>>>http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://ww-
> >>>>>w.naturalhisto=
r=2E..
>
> >>>>> 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian
> >>>>> Aborigines and various Native American and
> >>>>> African groups have traditionally practiced
> >>>>> "persistence hunting," chasing antelopes or other
> >>>>> game in the midday heat, often for hours, until
> >>>>> the animals overheat and collapse."
>
> >>>>> Looks like the kudu could use a little more SC fat and
> >>>>> better kidne=
ys
> >>>>> in order to get away from Mr. Karoha.
>
> >>>>>> _______
>
> >>>>>> Op 10-07-2007 00:29, in artikel
> >>>>>> 1184020192.290748.14...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
> >>>>>> Lee Olsen
> >>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> >>>>>>> On Jul 9, 1:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> >>>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 21:40, in artikel
> >>>>>>>> 1184010003.599845.293...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.-
> >>>>>>>> com, Lee Olsen
> >>>>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> schreef:
>
> >>>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 11:58 am, Marc Verhaegen
> >>>>>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrot=
e:
> >>>>>>>>>> Op 09-07-2007 20:04, in artikel
> >>>>>>>>>> 1184004269.158197.274...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroup-
> >>>>>>>>>> s.com, Lee Ols=
en
> >>>>>>>>>> <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You stupid fool, most animals require water, so
> >>>>>>>>>>> what??????
>
> >>>>>>>>> Wet aper tries to out swim a shark and here is the
> >>>>>>>>> result, sha=
rk has
> >>>>>>>>> dinner. http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkAT-
> >>>>>>>>> TACK1.jpg
>
> >>>>>>>>> Mr. Karoha chases down a SC deficient kudu.
> >>>>>>>>> Result, Mr. Karoha =
has a
> >>>>>>>>> nice dinner. http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>
> >>>>>>>>> AAT is phantasy.
>
> >>>>>>>> Savanna believers believe that because Mr.Karoha
> >>>>>>>> runs after kudu=
s, our
> >>>>>>>> ancestors were kudu runners...
> >>>>>>> Semaw (2000:1210) " The recent cut-mark data from
> >>>>>>> Bouri indicates that early hominids c. 2.5 Ma began
> >>>>>>> incorporating some amount of =
high
> >>>>>>> nutrient meat in their diet."
>
> >>>>>> Why, my boy, wouldn't they butcher drowned bovids at
> >>>>>> riverbanks?
>
> >>>>> What would that have to do with anything? Do drowned
> >>>>> bovids mean th=
ey
> >>>>> were littorial? Inform a bit before spouting off.
>
> >>>>> Davidson, I. & Solomon, S. (1990) Was OH 27 the victim
> >>>>> of a crocodi=
le
> >>>>> attack?. In Solomon, S., Davidson, I. & Watson, D.
> >>>>> (eds) Problem Solving in Taphonomy: Archaeological &
> >>>>> Palaeontological Studies from Europe, Africa &
> >>>>> Oceania. Tempus 2. Anthropology Museum, University of
> >>>>> Queensland, St. Lucia, Queensland. 198 - 206.
>
> >>>>>> Good illustration of riverside adaptations. Thanks
> >>>>>> for the argume=
nt.
>
> >>>>> "Here's a point to consider when evaluating AAT. I did
> >>>>> not learn th=
is
> >>>>> point from some academic overlord with an anti-AAT
> >>>>> agenda; I learned it while trying to avoid becoming
> >>>>> crocodile food in Africa. When I spent several months
> >>>>> with a team at Lake Turkana, Kenya, investigat=
ing
> >>>>> some of the most important early hominid sites in the
> >>>>> world, one of our overriding concerns -- while
> >>>>> swimming, bathing, or catching fish with a net -- was
> >>>>> to watch out for crocodiles in the shallows. A cr=
oc
> >>>>> can be on you, crush your legs in its jaws, and drag
> >>>>> you under to drown before you have time to screech for
> >>>>> help. The fact that crocodiles co-existed in time and
> >>>>> space with early hominids is a colossal blow to AAT,
> >>>>> which does not explain what advantages early humans
> >>>>> would have gained by spending time in
> >>>>> crocodile-populated waters; an environment where they
> >>>>> could not make fires, throw stones or sticks, use
> >>>>> other tools, or have any hope whatever of escaping the
> >>>>> most common predator. A troop of early hominids wading
> >>>>> in a lakeshore or swampy forest would best be
> >>>>> described as a crocodile banquet. The cute, feel-good
> >>>>> images of bab=
ies
> >>>>> swimming freely in a pool, shown in the AAT video,
> >>>>> have nothing to =
do
> >>>>> with the real situation of predator avoidance in
> >>>>> Africa. Ask the Dasenich or Turkana people who live
> >>>>> around Lake Turkana: only visit=
ing
> >>>>> maniacs swim in that lake." Cameron M. Smith
>
> >>>>>>> Think the lions just gave it to them, doughboy?
> >>>>>>> Think the lions w=
ere
> >>>>>>> making the tools out there on the hot savanna where
> >>>>>>> Homo couldn't live?
>
> >>>>>> ??? =20 You're crazy.
>
> >>>>> Lip service, only argument you ever had.
>
> >> My boy, Mr.X running after kudus does not prove your
> >> savanna nonsense:=
it
> >> would be the same as saying that some hman walked on the
> >> moon, our anc=
estors
> >> lived on the moon.
>
> > Flawed logic doughboy, Homo wasn't on the moon when tools
> > were being used to cut up antelope and land tortoises 2.6
> > mya at Gona.
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/m3nzt
>
> > "A run around the park or on a treadmill in the gym is the
> > best most of us manage these days. We should do better
> > really, given that our body shape - upright, with large
> > buttocks - apparently evolved for running.
>
> Our savanna boy believes dogs & horses & kangaroos run
> upright?? Yes, my boy, no doubt, my boy...

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.natur-
alhistorymag.c= om/1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact,
Australian Aborigines and various Native American and African
groups have traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat, often for
hours, until the animals overheat and collapse. He reports a
success rate as high as 80 percent-and a meat yield that beats
hunting with bow and arrow, club, or spear. Only hunting with
dogs proved superior."

Of course, like the cheetah, hunting dogs are very easy
to get their kill away from them. Throw a few rocks and
they are gone.

I still can't get over how big the Kudu is. When I read about
humans catching antelope years ago, I expected some crippled
fawn or old doe.
ea. Karoha is simply amazing at only 7.5 km/hr. Think how fast
they could catch a kudu if he and his friends worked in a
team, each only runnining part of the distance as the
article suggested. They wouldn't even work up a sweat.

Horse?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_1804000/1-
804830.stm

(AAT believers are becoming more & more stupid... Better not
contradict them...)
>
> My little boy, we all know that Homo used stone tools
> at beaches

Yep, to cut up same mammals found inland.

&
> riverbanks to butcher stranded whales

So did Lewis and Clark? Did you have a point, or are you just
babbling nonsense?

> & drowned bovids.

Liar.

This extreme
> dexterity & tool use confirms our waterside adatpations,
> of course:

Gona 2.6 mya on the savanna. You are a million years after the
fact doughboy, learn to tell time.

>
> http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=3Dvids.individual-
> &videoid=3D125=
.=2E.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Marc Verha
Thu, Jul-12-07, 17:16
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Ourl ittle boy will never learn. That
some people run after antelopes does not mean our ancestors
did that. That some people walked on the moon does not mean
our ancestors did that. Okidoki? Listen what real "PAs" (not
loons like you) have to say on the subject: PV Tobias 1998
"Water and human evolution" Out There 3:38-44 "Humans are not
savannah-adapted animals - In rejecting the SH, I was moved
primarily by the evidence unearthed in S.& E.Africa.
Meanwhile, Elaine Morgan had been piecing together a nr of
other arguments against the SH, based on some anat., biochem.&
physiol.data of modern humans, much of which was collected by
Belgium's Dr Marc Verhaegen, which contrast sharply with the
traits in present-day animals that are truly adapted to
savannah life. As examples, modern humans lack sun-reflecting
fur & are virtually hairless. The cooling system in our skin
is quite unfit for hot, dry, exposed environments: we have
numerous sweat glands , we waste water & sodium - not very
suitable for life on the savannah. Our ability to concentrate
our urine is poor & too low and if ever our earliest ancestors
were savannah dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most
profligate urinators there. Adapted savannah-dwellers need to
drink more water at a time, but most humans are not able to
drink much at a time. The quantity of our subcutaneous fat,
which would insulate us against heat loss, is never found in
truly savannah-adapted animals. In our bodily functions,
chemistry and microscopical anatomy, we should be hopeless as
savannah-dwellers. So Marc Verhaegen & Elaine Morgan, in her
remarkable book, The Scars of Evolution, came to the same
conclusion that we had reached from quite different lines of
evidence: the old SH° was not tenable. All former savannah
supporters must recant , this I did in London. It was an
exciting moment - living thru a change of paradigm. Max
Planck, the German physicist & Nobel laureate, once wrote
these words on the replacement of an outworn paradigm: "A new
scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents
and making them see the light, but rather because its
opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows that is
familiar with it." That must be one of the masterpieces of
cynicism on the scientific process. Paradigm changes, I like
to think, flow overwhelmingly from new evidence and, where the
evidence is sound and even irresistible, they should be
embraced just as lief by the old as by the young. It was three
weeks after my 71th birthday and I went on to declare, "A
change of paradigm shakes us up; it rejuvenates us; and, this
above all, it prevents mental fossilisation
- and that is good for all of us.""

___

Op 12-07-2007 15:46, in artikel
1184248006.965800.148010@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.nat-
> uralhistorymag.com/
> 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines and
> various Native American and African groups have
> traditionally practiced "persistence hunting," chasing
> antelopes or other game in the midday heat, often for
> hours, until the animals overheat and collapse. He
> reports a success rate as high as 80 percent-and a meat
> yield that beats hunting with bow and arrow, club, or
> spear. Only hunting with dogs proved superior."

Lee Olsen
Fri, Jul-13-07, 06:16
On Jul 12, 1:38 pm, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Stupid, stupid, stupid. Ourl ittle boy will never learn.

All the name calling in the world will not generate one iota
of evidence where it does not exist. Name calling is the only
argument you ever had.

> That some people run after antelopes does not mean our
> ancestors did that.

Well doughboy, our ancesters certainly weren't swimming
after sharks!

http://www.biarms.com/PhotoAlbums/sharkATTACK1.jpg

> That some people walked on the moon does not mean our
> ancestors did that. Okidoki?

No evidence of cut-marked antelope bones on the moon, but
there is at Gona 2.6 mya, got it?

> Listen what real "PAs" (not loons like you) have to say on
> the subject: PV Tobias 1998 "Water and human evolution" Out
> There 3:38-44

WHAT??? You are citing 10 year-old lip sevice?

> "Humans are not savannah-adapted animals -

Now I have two liars to deal with???

Mr. Karoha is laughing at you both.

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/ December 2006-January 2007

Running Man Couch potatoes may disagree, but people are fairly
well built to run in the heat. We sweat more per unit of body
surface area than any other animal, and our upright posture
exposes less body surface to the sun than would walking on all
fours, and more surface to the cooling wind. On the hunt,
those traits give people a distinct advantage over most
quarry. In fact, Australian Aborigines and various Native
American and African groups have traditionally practiced
"persistence hunting," chasing antelopes or other game in the
midday heat, often for hours, until the animals overheat and
collapse. During the past twenty years, Louis Liebenberg, an
animal tracker and the owner of CyberTracker Software in Cape
Town, South Africa, has observed the only persistence hunters
still left, the !Xo and /Gwi bushmen of the central Kalahari
in Botswana. He reports a success rate as high as 80
percent-and a meat yield that beats hunting with bow and
arrow, club, or spear. Only hunting with dogs proved superior.
Conditions have to be just right: the days must be long and
hot, and the terrain must slow down the quarry. Furthermore,
the hunters must be terrifically fit-the runs Liebenberg
observed lasted as long as six- and-a-half hours and covered
as many as twenty-two miles. And the hunters' tracking skills
must be exquisite; finding and following the quarry every time
it bolts out of sight or mingles with a herd is no easy
task-teamwork helps. But done right, Liebenberg says,
persistence hunting is so effective that it may have helped
select for the excellent thermoregulatory system, bipedal
posture, and long strides that we all possess. Perhaps sadly,
the practice is dying out, though the physical skill endures
in those who shun couches and run for fun. (Current
Anthropology) --St=E9phan Reebs

"Specifically, longer, more linear bodies are better adapted
for heat loss in dry open environments, where evaporative heat
loss from sweating is very effective. All modern-day tall
"elongated" African
(M.s., Nilotics) are restricted to such environments." Alan
Walker and Richard Leakey editors. 1993 The
Nariokotome Homo Erectus Skeleton. Harvard University
Press, Cambridge

"Two independent lines of research converged on the
conclusion that early Homo was an efficient runner, the first
human species to be so (Leakey (1994:55)"

>In rejecting the SH, I was moved primarily by the evidence
>unearthed in S.& E.Africa.

This guy never heard of Gona? How sad.

Meanwhile, Elaine
> Morgan had been piecing together a nr of other arguments
> against the SH, based on some anat., biochem.& physiol.data
> of modern humans,

Another loon shows up... A'piths aren't modern Homo dear.

> much of which was collected by Belgium's Dr Marc Verhaegen,
> which contrast sharply with the traits in present-day
> animals that are truly adapted to savannah life.

Yeah, Marc's big contribution is to claim mountain beavers are
semi- aquatic.

Did this clown think we are other animals? We are better
adapted to the savanna than the average kudu.
http://tinyurl.com/32ryet

> As examples, modern humans lack sun-reflecting fur & are
> virtually hairle=
ss.
> The cooling system in our skin is quite unfit for hot, dry,
> exposed environments: we have numerous sweat glands , we
> waste water & sodium - n=
ot
> very suitable for life on the savannah.

How utterly insane. How does this clown think the tools got
out there on the hot savanna? If it kudu had less hair and
more SC fat he probably would get away from Mr. Karoha.

>Our ability to concentrate our urine is poor & too low and if
>ever our earliest ancestors were savannah dwelle=
rs,
> we must have been the worst, the most profligate urinators
> there. Adapted savannah-dwellers need to drink more water at
> a time, but most humans are not able to drink much at a
> time. The quantity of our subcutaneous fat, which would
> insulate us against heat loss, is never found in truly
> savannah-adapted animals.

Evidence means absolutely nothing to imagination freaks. Gona
2.6 mya =3D ostrich =3D hot savanna. Dmanisi 1.8 mya =3D
ostrich =3D hot savanna Oysters =3D modern humans 125 kya.

>In our bodily functions, chemistry and microscopical
>anatomy, we should be hopeless as savannah-dwellers. So
>Marc Verhaegen & Elaine Morgan, in her remarkable book, The
>Scars of Evolution, came to the same conclusion that we had
>reached from quite different lines of evidence: the old
>SH=B0 was not ten=
able.

He finally gets something right "OLD" and much out of date SH.
Try the new up-to-date one. Message-ID:
<430778e6$0$6564$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> Marc Verhaegin says:
"AAT is about Homo, *not* about hominids in general." Even
Marc gets something right if you give him enough tries.

The question today is how did Homo get endurant bipedalism,
which is much different than Apith bipedalism. On the savanna
of course.

> All former savannah supporters must recant , this I did in
> London. It was=
an
> exciting moment - living thru a change of paradigm.

Wrong paradigm bud, this is 2007. Yes, we know, Piltdown was a
hoax also.

> Max Planck, the German physicist & Nobel laureate, once
> wrote these words on the replacement of =
an
> outworn paradigm: "A new scientific truth does not triumph
> by convincing =
its
> opponents and making them see the light, but rather because
> its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows
> that is familiar with it." T=
hat
> must be one of the masterpieces of cynicism on the
> scientific process. Paradigm changes, I like to think, flow
> overwhelmingly from new evidence and, where the evidence is
> sound and even irresistible, they should be embraced just as
> lief by the old as by the young. It was three weeks after my
> 71th birthday and I went on to declare, "A change of
> paradigm shakes us up; it rejuvenates us; and, this above
> all, it prevents mental fossilisat=
ion
> - and that is good for all of us.""

Out of date, but to be expected, the poor man was from a
different generation. He knew nothing of Gona or ostriches or
differences in apith and Homo bipedalism (see Wang and
Preuschoft). Things were a lot simpler in his day. Good-bye
Tobias, have a nice day.

>
> ___ =20
>
> Op 12-07-2007 15:46, in artikel
> 1184248006.965800.148...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
>
>
> >http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.na-
> >turalhistor...
> > 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines
> > and various Native American and African groups have
> > traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
> > chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat,
> > often for hours, until the animals overheat and
> > collapse. He reports a success rate as high as 80
> > percent-and a meat yield that beats hunting with bow
> > and arrow, club, or spear. Only hunting with dogs
> > proved superior."- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Lee Olsen
Fri, Jul-13-07, 17:17
On Jul 13, 4:13 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 13-07-2007 02:34, in artikel
> 1184286877.326843.101...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> > On Jul 12, 1:38 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
> > wrote:
> >> Stupid, stupid, stupid. Ourl ittle boy will never learn.
>
> > All the name calling in the world will not generate one
> > iota of evidence where it does not exist. Name calling is
> > the only argument you ever had.
>
> Not name calling: it's a definition of savanna believers.
> They're stupid, stupid, stupid.

Says the idiot who claimed in a TREE 2002 opinion halucination
that mountain beavers are semi-aquatic. You know as much about
animals as I do about nuclear physics.

> Some of these fools even believe that our ancestors got more
> dependent on drinking water to run after kudus. Can you
> imagine?

Looks like Mr. Kudu needs a drink of water: http://www.natura-
lhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.naturalhistorymag.c=
om/1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines
and various Native American and African groups have
traditionally practiced "persistence hunting," chasing
antelopes or other game in the midday heat, often for hours,
until the animals overheat and collapse."

> Listen what "real"Pas have to sya on the subject:

> PV Tobias 1998 "Water and human evolution" Out There 3:38-44

WHAT??? You are citing 10 year-old lip sevice?

> "Humans are not savannah-adapted animals -

Now I have two liars to deal with???

Mr. Karoha is laughing at you both.

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/ December 2006-January 2007

Running Man Couch potatoes may disagree, but people are fairly
well built to run in the heat. We sweat more per unit of body
surface area than any other animal, and our upright posture
exposes less body surface to the sun than would walking on all
fours, and more surface to the cooling wind. On the hunt,
those traits give people a distinct advantage over most
quarry. In fact, Australian Aborigines and various Native
American and African groups have traditionally practiced
"persistence hunting," chasing antelopes or other game in the
midday heat, often for hours, until the animals overheat and
collapse. During the past twenty years, Louis Liebenberg, an
animal tracker and the owner of CyberTracker Software in Cape
Town, South Africa, has observed the only persistence hunters
still left, the !Xo and /Gwi bushmen of the central Kalahari
in Botswana. He reports a success rate as high as 80
percent-and a meat yield that beats hunting with bow and
arrow, club, or spear. Only hunting with dogs proved superior.
Conditions have to be just right: the days must be long and
hot, and the terrain must slow down the quarry. Furthermore,
the hunters must be terrifically fit-the runs Liebenberg
observed lasted as long as six- and-a-half hours and covered
as many as twenty-two miles. And the hunters' tracking skills
must be exquisite; finding and following the quarry every time
it bolts out of sight or mingles with a herd is no easy
task-teamwork helps. But done right, Liebenberg says,
persistence hunting is so effective that it may have helped
select for the excellent thermoregulatory system, bipedal
posture, and long strides that we all possess. Perhaps sadly,
the practice is dying out, though the physical skill endures
in those who shun couches and run for fun. (Current
Anthropology) --St=E9phan Reebs

"Specifically, longer, more linear bodies are better adapted
for heat loss in dry open environments, where evaporative heat
loss from sweating is very effective. All modern-day tall
"elongated" African
(M.s., Nilotics) are restricted to such environments." Alan
Walker and Richard Leakey editors. 1993 The
Nariokotome Homo Erectus Skeleton. Harvard University
Press, Cambridge

"Two independent lines of research converged on the
conclusion that early Homo was an efficient runner, the first
human species to be so (Leakey (1994:55)"

>In rejecting the SH, I was moved primarily by the evidence
>unearthed in S.& E.Africa.

This guy never heard of Gona? How sad.

Meanwhile, Elaine
> Morgan had been piecing together a nr of other arguments
> against the SH, based on some anat., biochem.& physiol.data
> of modern humans,

Another loon shows up... A'piths aren't modern Homo dear.

> much of which was collected by Belgium's Dr Marc Verhaegen,
> which contrast sharply with the traits in present-day
> animals that are truly adapted to savannah life.

Yeah, Marc's big contribution is to claim mountain beavers are
semi- aquatic.

Did this clown think we are other animals? We are better
adapted to the savanna than the average kudu.
http://tinyurl.com/32ryet

> As examples, modern humans lack sun-reflecting fur & are
> virtually hairle=
ss.
> The cooling system in our skin is quite unfit for hot, dry,
> exposed environments: we have numerous sweat glands , we
> waste water & sodium - n=
ot
> very suitable for life on the savannah.

How utterly insane. How does this clown think the tools got
out there on the hot savanna? If it kudu had less hair and
more SC fat he probably would get away from Mr. Karoha.

>Our ability to concentrate our urine is poor & too low and if
>ever our earliest ancestors were savannah dwelle=
rs,
> we must have been the worst, the most profligate urinators
> there. Adapted savannah-dwellers need to drink more water at
> a time, but most humans are not able to drink much at a
> time. The quantity of our subcutaneous fat, which would
> insulate us against heat loss, is never found in truly
> savannah-adapted animals.

Evidence means absolutely nothing to imagination freaks. Gona
2.6 mya =3D ostrich =3D hot savanna. Dmanisi 1.8 mya =3D
ostrich =3D hot savanna Oysters =3D modern humans 125 kya.

>In our bodily functions, chemistry and microscopical
>anatomy, we should be hopeless as savannah-dwellers. So
>Marc Verhaegen & Elaine Morgan, in her remarkable book, The
>Scars of Evolution, came to the same conclusion that we had
>reached from quite different lines of evidence: the old
>SH=B0 was not ten=
able.

He finally gets something right "OLD" and much out of date SH.
Try the new up-to-date one. Message-ID:
<430778e6$0$6564$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> Marc Verhaegin says:
"AAT is about Homo, *not* about hominids in general." Even
Marc gets something right if you give him enough tries.

The question today is how did Homo get endurant bipedalism,
which is much different than Apith bipedalism. On the savanna
of course.

> All former savannah supporters must recant , this I did in
> London. It was=
an
> exciting moment - living thru a change of paradigm.

Wrong paradigm bud, this is 2007. Yes, we know, Pilltdown was
a hoax also.

> Max Planck, the German physicist & Nobel laureate, once
> wrote these words on the replacement of =
an
> outworn paradigm: "A new scientific truth does not triumph
> by convincing =
its
> opponents and making them see the light, but rather because
> its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows
> that is familiar with it." T=
hat
> must be one of the masterpieces of cynicism on the
> scientific process. Paradigm changes, I like to think, flow
> overwhelmingly from new evidence and, where the evidence is
> sound and even irresistible, they should be embraced just as
> lief by the old as by the young. It was three weeks after my
> 71th birthday and I went on to declare, "A change of
> paradigm shakes us up; it rejuvenates us; and, this above
> all, it prevents mental fossilisat=
ion
> - and that is good for all of us.""

Out of date, but to be expected, the poor man was from a
different generation. He knew nothing of Gona or ostriches or
differences in apith and Homo bipedalism (see Wang and
Preuschoft). Things were a lot simpler in his day. Good-bye
Tobias, have a nice day.

Marc Verha
Fri, Jul-13-07, 17:17
Op 13-07-2007 02:34, in artikel
1184286877.326843.101710@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jul 12, 1:38 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Stupid, stupid, stupid. Ourl ittle boy will never learn.
>
> All the name calling in the world will not generate one iota
> of evidence where it does not exist. Name calling is the
> only argument you ever had.

Not name calling: it's a definition of savanna believers.
They're stupid, stupid, stupid. Some of these fools even
believe that our ancestors got more dependent on drinking
water to run after kudus. Can you imagine? Listen what
"real"Pas have to sya on the subject:

PV Tobias 1998 "Water and human evolution" Out There 3:38-44
http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm Humans are not
savannah-adapted animals - In rejecting the SH, I was moved
primarily by the evidence unearthed in S.& E.Africa.
Meanwhile, Elaine Morgan had been piecing together a nr of
other arguments against the SH, based on some anat., biochem.&
physiol.data of modern humans, much of which was collected by
Belgium's Dr Marc Verhaegen, which contrast sharply with the
traits in present-day animals that are truly adapted to
savannah life. As examples, modern humans lack sun-reflecting
fur & are virtually hairless. The cooling system in our skin
is quite unfit for hot, dry, exposed environments: we have
numerous sweat glands , we waste water & sodium - not very
suitable for life on the savannah. Our ability to concentrate
our urine is poor & too low and if ever our earliest ancestors
were savannah dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most
profligate urinators there. Adapted savannah-dwellers need to
drink more water at a time, but most humans are not able to
drink much at a time. The quantity of our subcutaneous fat,
which would insulate us against heat loss, is never found in
truly savannah-adapted animals. In our bodily functions,
chemistry and microscopical anatomy, we should be hopeless as
savannah-dwellers. So Marc Verhaegen & Elaine Morgan, in her
remarkable book, The Scars of Evolution, came to the same
conclusion that we had reached from quite different lines of
evidence: the old SH° was not tenable. All former savannah
supporters must recant , this I did in London. It was an
exciting moment - living thru a change of paradigm. Max
Planck, the German physicist & Nobel laureate, once wrote
these words on the replacement of an outworn paradigm: "A new
scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents
and making them see the light, but rather because its
opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows that is
familiar with it." That must be one of the masterpieces of
cynicism on the scientific process. Paradigm changes, I like
to think, flow overwhelmingly from new evidence and, where the
evidence is sound and even irresistible, they should be
embraced just as lief by the old as by the young. It was three
weeks after my 71th birthday and I went on to declare, "A
change of paradigm shakes us up; it rejuvenates us; and, this
above all, it prevents mental fossilisation
- and that is good for all of us."

Marc Verha
Fri, Jul-13-07, 17:17
Stupid, stupid, stupid nonsense of our kudu runner, not worth
an answer.

Op 13-07-2007 20:43, in artikel
1184352225.243419.316430@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jul 13, 4:13 am, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Op 13-07-2007 02:34, in artikel
>> 1184286877.326843.101...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>>> On Jul 12, 1:38 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Stupid, stupid, stupid. Ourl ittle boy will never learn.
>>
>>> All the name calling in the world will not generate one
>>> iota of evidence where it does not exist. Name calling is
>>> the only argument you ever had.
>>
>> Not name calling: it's a definition of savanna believers.
>> They're stupid, stupid, stupid.
>
> Says the idiot who claimed in a TREE 2002 opinion
> halucination that mountain beavers are semi-aquatic. You
> know as much about animals as I do about nuclear physics.
>
>> Some of these fools even believe that our ancestors got
>> more dependent on drinking water to run after kudus. Can
>> you imagine?
>
> Looks like Mr. Kudu needs a drink of water: http://www.na-
> turalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.naturalhistory-
> mag.com/
> 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines and
> various Native American and African groups have
> traditionally practiced "persistence hunting," chasing
> antelopes or other game in the midday heat, often for
> hours, until the animals overheat and collapse."
>
>> Listen what "real"Pas have to sya on the subject:
>
>
>> PV Tobias 1998 "Water and human evolution" Out There
>> 3:38-44
>
> WHAT??? You are citing 10 year-old lip sevice?
>
>> "Humans are not savannah-adapted animals -
>
> Now I have two liars to deal with???
>
> Mr. Karoha is laughing at you both.
>
> http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/ December 2006-January 2007
>
> Running Man Couch potatoes may disagree, but people are
> fairly well built to run in the heat. We sweat more per
> unit of body surface area than any other animal, and our
> upright posture exposes less body surface to the sun than
> would walking on all fours, and more surface to the
> cooling wind. On the hunt, those traits give people a
> distinct advantage over most quarry. In fact, Australian
> Aborigines and various Native American and African groups
> have traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
> chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat, often
> for hours, until the animals overheat and collapse. During
> the past twenty years, Louis Liebenberg, an animal tracker
> and the owner of CyberTracker Software in Cape Town, South
> Africa, has observed the only persistence hunters still
> left, the !Xo and /Gwi bushmen of the central Kalahari in
> Botswana. He reports a success rate as high as 80
> percent-and a meat yield that beats hunting with bow and
> arrow, club, or spear. Only hunting with dogs proved
> superior. Conditions have to be just right: the days must
> be long and hot, and the terrain must slow down the
> quarry. Furthermore, the hunters must be terrifically
> fit-the runs Liebenberg observed lasted as long as six-
> and-a-half hours and covered as many as twenty-two miles.
> And the hunters' tracking skills must be exquisite;
> finding and following the quarry every time it bolts out
> of sight or mingles with a herd is no easy task-teamwork
> helps. But done right, Liebenberg says, persistence
> hunting is so effective that it may have helped select for
> the excellent thermoregulatory system, bipedal posture,
> and long strides that we all possess. Perhaps sadly, the
> practice is dying out, though the physical skill endures
> in those who shun couches and run for fun. (Current
> Anthropology) --Stéphan Reebs
>
> "Specifically, longer, more linear bodies are better adapted
> for heat loss in dry open environments, where evaporative
> heat loss from sweating is very effective. All modern-day
> tall "elongated" African
> (e.g., Nilotics) are restricted to such environments." Alan
> Walker and Richard Leakey editors. 1993 The Nariokotome
> Homo Erectus Skeleton. Harvard University Press,
> Cambridge
>
> "Two independent lines of research converged on the
> conclusion that early Homo was an efficient runner, the
> first human species to be so (Leakey (1994:55)"
>
>
>> In rejecting the SH, I was moved primarily by the evidence
>> unearthed in S.& E.Africa.
>
> This guy never heard of Gona? How sad.
>
> Meanwhile, Elaine
>> Morgan had been piecing together a nr of other arguments
>> against the SH, based on some anat., biochem.& physiol.data
>> of modern humans,
>
> Another loon shows up... A'piths aren't modern Homo dear.
>
>
>
>
>> much of which was collected by Belgium's Dr Marc Verhaegen,
>> which contrast sharply with the traits in present-day
>> animals that are truly adapted to savannah life.
>
> Yeah, Marc's big contribution is to claim mountain beavers
> are semi- aquatic.
>
> Did this clown think we are other animals? We are better
> adapted to the savanna than the average kudu.
> http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
>
>> As examples, modern humans lack sun-reflecting fur & are
>> virtually hairless. The cooling system in our skin is quite
>> unfit for hot, dry, exposed environments: we have numerous
>> sweat glands , we waste water & sodium - not very suitable
>> for life on the savannah.
>
> How utterly insane. How does this clown think the tools got
> out there on the hot savanna? If it kudu had less hair and
> more SC fat he probably would get away from Mr. Karoha.
>
>> Our ability to concentrate our urine is poor & too low and
>> if ever our earliest ancestors were savannah dwellers, we
>> must have been the worst, the most profligate urinators
>> there. Adapted savannah-dwellers need to drink more water
>> at a time, but most humans are not able to drink much at a
>> time. The quantity of our subcutaneous fat, which would
>> insulate us against heat loss, is never found in truly
>> savannah-adapted animals.
>
> Evidence means absolutely nothing to imagination freaks.
> Gona 2.6 mya = ostrich = hot savanna. Dmanisi 1.8 mya =
> ostrich = hot savanna Oysters = modern humans 125 kya.
>
>> In our bodily functions, chemistry and microscopical
>> anatomy, we should be hopeless as savannah-dwellers. So
>> Marc Verhaegen & Elaine Morgan, in her remarkable book, The
>> Scars of Evolution, came to the same conclusion that we had
>> reached from quite different lines of evidence: the old SH°
>> was not tenable.
>
> He finally gets something right "OLD" and much out of date
> SH. Try the new up-to-date one. Message-ID:
> <430778e6$0$6564$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> Marc Verhaegin
> says: "AAT is about Homo, *not* about hominids in general."
> Even Marc gets something right if you give him enough tries.
>
> The question today is how did Homo get endurant bipedalism,
> which is much different than Apith bipedalism. On the
> savanna of course.
>
>
>> All former savannah supporters must recant , this I did in
>> London. It was an exciting moment - living thru a change of
>> paradigm.
>
> Wrong paradigm bud, this is 2007. Yes, we know, Pilltdown
> was a hoax also.
>
>
>> Max Planck, the German physicist & Nobel laureate, once
>> wrote these words on the replacement of an outworn
>> paradigm: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by
>> convincing its opponents and making them see the light,
>> but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new
>> generation grows that is familiar with it." That must be
>> one of the masterpieces of cynicism on the scientific
>> process. Paradigm changes, I like to think, flow
>> overwhelmingly from new evidence and, where the evidence
>> is sound and even irresistible, they should be embraced
>> just as lief by the old as by the young. It was three
>> weeks after my 71th birthday and I went on to declare, "A
>> change of paradigm shakes us up; it rejuvenates us; and,
>> this above all, it prevents mental fossilisation
>> - and that is good for all of us.""
>
> Out of date, but to be expected, the poor man was from a
> different generation. He knew nothing of Gona or ostriches
> or differences in apith and Homo bipedalism (see Wang and
> Preuschoft). Things were a lot simpler in his day. Good-bye
> Tobias, have a nice day.

Lee Olsen
Sat, Jul-14-07, 06:15
Marc Verhaegen wrote:

>
>
> Op 13-07-2007 20:43, in artikel
> 1184352225.243419.316430@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> > On Jul 13, 4:13 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
> > wrote:
> >> Op 13-07-2007 02:34, in artikel
> >> 1184286877.326843.101...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com, Lee
> >> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> schreef:
> >>
> >>> On Jul 12, 1:38 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> >>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> >>>> Stupid, stupid, stupid. Ourl ittle boy will never
> >>>> learn.
> >>
> >>> All the name calling in the world will not generate one
> >>> iota of evidence where it does not exist. Name calling
> >>> is the only argument you ever had.
> >>
> >> Not name calling: it's a definition of savanna believers.
> >> They're stu=
pid,
> >> stupid, stupid.
> >
> > Says the idiot who claimed in a TREE 2002 opinion
> > halucination that mountain beavers are semi-aquatic. You
> > know as much about animals as I do about nuclear physics.
> >
> >> Some of these fools even believe that our ancestors got
> >> more dependent on drinking water to run after kudus. Can
> >> you imagine?
> >
> > Looks like Mr. Kudu needs a drink of water: http://www.-
> > naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.naturalhis-
> > torym=
ag.com/
> > 1206/1206_samplings.html "In fact, Australian Aborigines
> > and various Native American and African groups have
> > traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
> > chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat,
> > often for hours, until the animals overheat and
> > collapse."
> >
> >> Listen what "real"Pas have to sya on the subject:
> >
> >
> >> PV Tobias 1998 "Water and human evolution" Out There
> >> 3:38-44
> >
> > WHAT??? You are citing 10 year-old lip sevice?
> >
> >> "Humans are not savannah-adapted animals -
> >
> > Now I have two liars to deal with???
> >
> > Mr. Karoha is laughing at you both.
> >
> > http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/ December
> > 2006-January 2007
> >
> > Running Man Couch potatoes may disagree, but people are
> > fairly well built to run in the heat. We sweat more per
> > unit of body surface area than any other animal, and our
> > upright posture exposes less body surface to the sun than
> > would walking on all fours, and more surface to the
> > cooling wind. On the hunt, those traits give people a
> > distinct advantage over most quarry. In fact, Australian
> > Aborigines and various Native American and African groups
> > have traditionally practiced "persistence hunting,"
> > chasing antelopes or other game in the midday heat, often
> > for hours, until the animals overheat and collapse. During
> > the past twenty years, Louis Liebenberg, an animal tracker
> > and the owner of CyberTracker Software in Cape Town, South
> > Africa, has observed the only persistence hunters still
> > left, the !Xo and /Gwi bushmen of the central Kalahari in
> > Botswana. He reports a success rate as high as 80
> > percent-and a meat yield that beats hunting with bow and
> > arrow, club, or spear. Only hunting with dogs proved
> > superior. Conditions have to be just right: the days must
> > be long and hot, and the terrain must slow down the
> > quarry. Furthermore, the hunters must be terrifically
> > fit-the runs Liebenberg observed lasted as long as six-
> > and-a-half hours and covered as many as twenty-two miles.
> > And the hunters' tracking skills must be exquisite;
> > finding and following the quarry every time it bolts out
> > of sight or mingles with a herd is no easy task-teamwork
> > helps. But done right, Liebenberg says, persistence
> > hunting is so effective that it may have helped select for
> > the excellent thermoregulatory system, bipedal posture,
> > and long strides that we all possess. Perhaps sadly, the
> > practice is dying out, though the physical skill endures
> > in those who shun couches and run for fun. (Current
> > Anthropology) --St=E9phan Reebs
> >
> > "Specifically, longer, more linear bodies are better
> > adapted for heat loss in dry open environments, where
> > evaporative heat loss from sweating is very effective. All
> > modern-day tall "elongated" African
> > (e.g., Nilotics) are restricted to such environments."
> > Alan Walker and Richard Leakey editors. 1993 The
> > Nariokotome Homo Erectus Skeleton. Harvard University
> > Press, Cambridge
> >
> > "Two independent lines of research converged on the
> > conclusion that early Homo was an efficient runner, the
> > first human species to be so (Leakey (1994:55)"
> >
> >
> >> In rejecting the SH, I was moved primarily by the
> >> evidence unearthed in S.& E.Africa.
> >
> > This guy never heard of Gona? How sad.
> >
> > Meanwhile, Elaine
> >> Morgan had been piecing together a nr of other arguments
> >> against the S=
H,
> >> based on some anat., biochem.& physiol.data of modern
> >> humans,
> >
> > Another loon shows up... A'piths aren't modern Homo dear.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> much of which was collected by Belgium's Dr Marc
> >> Verhaegen, which contrast sharply w=
ith
> >> the traits in present-day animals that are truly adapted
> >> to savannah l=
ife.
> >
> > Yeah, Marc's big contribution is to claim mountain beavers
> > are semi- aquatic.
> >
> > Did this clown think we are other animals? We are better
> > adapted to the savanna than the average kudu.
> > http://tinyurl.com/32ryet
> >
> >> As examples, modern humans lack sun-reflecting fur & are
> >> virtually hai=
rless.
> >> The cooling system in our skin is quite unfit for hot,
> >> dry, exposed environments: we have numerous sweat glands
> >> , we waste water & sodium =
- not
> >> very suitable for life on the savannah.
> >
> > How utterly insane. How does this clown think the tools
> > got out there on the hot savanna? If it kudu had less hair
> > and more SC fat he probably would get away from Mr.
> > Karoha.
> >
> >> Our ability to concentrate our urine is poo