Olson's only "arguments" are misrepresentations l

[Marc Verha]

Op 08-06-2007 16:30, in artikel
1181313008.071490.280250@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef
deze kolder:

Let's see now, H&P spit +_5 Ma, so H went into the water and
came out on the savanna, catching antelope, eating meat, and
sweating a lot, all in 2.4
My. There isn't time for both, and Gona is real, not
imaginary----you lose.

Mz:

1) You confuse "Homo" & "our ancestors".
2) Nobody ever claimed human ancestors underwent a fully
aquatic phase.
3) No sensible PA still follows the savanna idea (Stringer,
Tobias, Wood, Andrews etc.etc.). These are popular stories
for the general public & outdated PAs, but without
scientific basis.
4) Early hominids 2.6 Ma or so may have butchered prey, but
there's no evidence they caught it.
5) Whether the hominids at Gona sweat is unknown. Claiming
such things show a complete ignorance of anthropology.
6) Whether our ancestors 2.6 Ma sweat is unknown. Same remark.
7) "There isn't time for both" show a complete ignorance of
evolutionary science.
8) Nothing of what was found at Gona contradicts AAT. To
the contrary.

Still no answer form our boy.

[Lee Olsen]

On Jun 24, 7:50 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 24-06-2007 14:01, in artikel
> 1182686515.552032.246...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> > On Jun 23, 11:11 am, Marc Verhaegen
>
> > Message-ID:
> > <1124421294.671438.286...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
>
> >>> Marc Verhaegen once again displays that he's short on
> >>> human decency by calling out a particular poster in
> >>> subject line.
>
> >> Dry ape "objections". IOW, still unable to tell us why
> >> AAT is wrong. :-D
>
> > Jason Esheman:
>
> My little boy, repeating nonsense doesn't make them true.

ROFL

"AAT says that some time after the Homo-Pan split 7-4 Ma, our
ancestors were seaside omnivores who collected coconuts,
fruits, bird eggs, turtles, shell-, crayfish, algae... "
blah, blah.....

[Lee Olsen]

On Jun 23, 11:11 am, Marc Verhaegen

Message-ID:
<1124421294.671438.286120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

> > Marc Verhaegen once again displays that he's short on
> > human decency by calling out a particular poster in
> > subject line.

> Dry ape "objections". IOW, still unable to tell us why AAT
> is wrong. :-D

Jason Esheman: No, your "in other words" had nothing to do
with my post. My comment had nothing to do with your innane
delusions that people haven't shown that your hypothesis is
full of holes. My comment was that you, Marc, are acting like
an asshole, like you regularly do, not showing common
courtesy, deciding to purposely use the subject line to
attack. You, Marc, are a low-life, a real sleazebag
sociopath. If it makes you feel better to repeat ad nauseum
that no one has an argument against your scenario, you really
ought to get your medication adjusted. It might actually make
you less of a dickhead.

Lee Olsen did a rather good job of pointing out the holes to
you within the last couple of weeks. Your response was to duck
and claim that your "theory" wasn't about fossils. IOW (as
you're so fond of saying) you've got a "theory" that exists
only by ignoring contradictory evidence and doesn't actually
explain anything. You're argumentative style is to set up a
strawman, claiming that the "alternative" is the "savanna" as
if that somehow has meaning. It doesn't. You're a nutcase, a
delusional fool who passes off his correspondence to Nature
like it was a peer reviewed article, who passes off his TREE
article like it was original research and not an opinion
piece, and who pretends that he's got stratocladistic support
for things for which he does not. You're a fraud, and on top
of that, you're an asshole. And I'm not "your boy," dickhead.

[Lee Olsen]

On Jun 24, 3:18 pm, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 24-06-2007 20:04, in artikel
> 1182708291.364023.98...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, wrote
> Lee Olsen

> >> My little boy, repeating nonsense doesn't make them true.
> > ROFL "AAT says that some time after the Homo-Pan split 7-4
> > Ma, our ancestors were seaside omnivores
>
> (Don't use old sources,

Says doughboy who cites 20+ year-old sources from
amaterurs....

Message-ID:
<1126193694.929357.238710@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Marc:
"1986. E. Morgan & M. Verhaegen."

What a hypocryte.

>my boy, if there's newer relevant information: it's
>rather 5-4 Ma.)

Says who? These dates change more often than you change AAT.

>
> What else can explain our SC fat, body alignment, fur
> reduction, climbing reduction, slow running speed & diving
> skills, stone tool use, extreme dexterity, brain
> enlangement, dependence on PUFAs, sodium & iodine, etc.?
> Your savanna stories?? :-D Back to school, my little boy.
>
> > who collected coconuts, fruits, bird eggs, turtles,
> > shell-, crayfish, algae... " blah, blah.....
>
> Our little boy has never heard of examples... Sigh.

Our doughboy has never heard of evidence? What you have is
imagination, that is not evidence.

> - Coconuts: aboundant at the coast: cf.human stone tool use,
> dexterity...
> - Fruits: abundant at your savanna IYO, no doubt??

Gona = core tools = antelope = ostrich = tortoise = savanna =
NULL hypothesis until someone proves different. Imaginary
scenarios that make up evidence that doesn't exist is
pseudo-science.

> - Bird & turtle eggs: abundant at seacoasts.

Too bad there is nothing but imagination there to eat them.

You want eggs, try ostrich eggs on the savanna, there is real
evidence for that.

> - Shell-crayfish: cf.origin of tool use & extreme dexterity
> cf.racoons,

Marc thinks he is a racoon...he has the brains of a racoon is
closer to the truth.

> sea-otters..., rich in brain-specific nutrients, etc.
> - Algae: more speculative, but certainly a possibility, eg,
> P-F.Puech 1983

Don't use old sources doughboy.

> "Tooth wear, diet & the artifacts of Java Homo" CA 24:381-2:
> Pithecanthr-IV simian diastema... canines very pointed...
> tight occlusion... wear pattern ... product of coarse, tough
> foods... enamel...fairly thin (for tight occlusion), chewy
> vegetable foods with a high friction coefficient...
> comparison confirms neither Gramineae nor Cyperaceae... Java
> man was mainly vegetarian & specialized in food of little
> nutritive value..." And as my little boy no doubt knows,
> Pith.IV was found in coastal sediments...

With bos bones, no algae, no oysters, no swamp-bird eggs.

> All these foods are eaten by humans today

Well doughboy, Gona @ 2.6 mya isn't today. We eat wheat today,
doesn't mean early Homo did.

& give a very rich & varied diet,
> easy to collect for children & women... :-) But nobody
> except fools like you eats raw meat: H.erectus running
> after wildebeest is not only blabla, it's as ridiculous as
> you are.

So now you have turned into a racist also? You are an insult
to Eskimos.

Thanks for proving Jason correct.

Message-ID:
<1124421294.671438.286120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>

Jason Esheman: No, your "in other words" had nothing to do
with my post. My comment had nothing to do with your innane
delusions that people haven't shown that your hypothesis is
full of holes. My comment was that you, Marc, are acting like
an asshole, like you regularly do, not showing common
courtesy, deciding to purposely use the subject line to
attack. You, Marc, are a low-life, a real sleazebag
sociopath. If it makes you feel better to repeat ad nauseum
that no one has an argument against your scenario, you really
ought to get your medication adjusted. It might actually make
you less of a dickhead.

[Marc Verha]

Op 24-06-2007 14:01, in artikel
1182686515.552032.246370@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jun 23, 11:11 am, Marc Verhaegen
>
> Message-ID:
> <1124421294.671438.286120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
>
>>> Marc Verhaegen once again displays that he's short on
>>> human decency by calling out a particular poster in
>>> subject line.
>
>
>> Dry ape "objections". IOW, still unable to tell us why AAT
>> is wrong. :-D
>
> Jason Esheman:

My little boy, repeating nonsense doesn't make them true. Grow
up & speak for yorself.

[Marc Verha]

Op 24-06-2007 20:04, in artikel
1182708291.364023.98940@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com, schreef
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> zijn
dagelijkse kolder:

>>> Jason Esheman:

>> My little boy, repeating nonsense doesn't make them true.

> ROFL "AAT says that some time after the Homo-Pan split 7-4
> Ma, our ancestors were seaside omnivores

(Don't use old sources, my boy, if there's newer relevant
information: it's rather 5-4 Ma.)

What else can explain our SC fat, body alignment, fur
reduction, climbing reduction, slow running speed & diving
skills, stone tool use, extreme dexterity, brain enlangement,
dependence on PUFAs, sodium & iodine, etc.? Your savanna
stories?? :-D Back to school, my little boy.

> who collected coconuts, fruits, bird eggs, turtles, shell-,
> crayfish, algae... " blah, blah.....

Our little boy has never heard of examples... Sigh.
- Coconuts: aboundant at the coast: cf.human stone tool use,
dexterity...
- Fruits: abundant at your savanna IYO, no doubt??
- Bird & turtle eggs: abundant at seacoasts.
- Shell-crayfish: cf.origin of tool use & extreme dexterity
cf.racoons, sea-otters..., rich in brain-specific
nutrients, etc.
- Algae: more speculative, but certainly a possibility, eg,
P-F.Puech 1983 "Tooth wear, diet & the artifacts of Java
Homo" CA 24:381-2: Pithecanthr-IV simian diastema... canines
very pointed... tight occlusion... wear pattern ... product
of coarse, tough foods... enamel...fairly thin (for tight
occlusion), chewy vegetable foods with a high friction
coefficient... comparison confirms neither Gramineae nor
Cyperaceae... Java man was mainly vegetarian & specialized
in food of little nutritive value..." And as my little boy
no doubt knows, Pith.IV was found in coastal sediments...
All these foods are eaten by humans today & give a very rich
& varied diet, easy to collect for children & women... :-)
But nobody except fools like you eats raw meat: H.erectus
running after wildebeest is not only blabla, it's as
ridiculous as you are.

[Marc Verha]

Op 25-06-2007 01:03, in artikel
1182726221.768598.287070@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> Says doughboy who cites 20+ year-old sources from
> amaterurs....

> What a hypocryte.

> Marc thinks he is a racoon...he has the brains of a racoon
> is closer to the truth.

> So now you have turned into a racist also? You are an insult
> to Eskimos.

[Marc Verha]

Op 28-06-2007 00:56, in artikel
1182984980.952966.189560@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

...

>> Confirms the waterside hypothesis:
>
> Says the amateur who claims: "Mojokerto = marine."

Yes, my boy, please inform a little bit before opening your
big mouth: OF Huffman 1999 "Variety in the Paleoenvironment of
early Homo erectus of Java, Indonesia" JHE 36:A8-A9

The Plio-Pleist.geology of E-Java provides insight into the
paleo-ecology of early He. The connection betw.geology &
paleo-ecology is found in the litho-& bio-facies of the
hominid-bearing fms & correlative geol.units. The facies
indicate that the 125 by 250 km area of known hominid fossil
occurrence contained volcanic mountains, calcareous uplands,
broad river valleys, sandy river courses, a large
lake/lagoon, a coarse-clastic marine delta & the
muddy/calcareous shorelines of a marine embayment during the
Plio-Pleist. He presumably frequented these
paleo-geogr.districts, as well as a volcanic coast & the
Indian Ocean shore that were located nearby. This complex of
phys.conditions undoubtedly supported a diverse set of
eco-systems - it does so in modern Indonesia - the homeland
of early He evidently offered many potential hominid
habitats. Diverse habitats are suggested by the contexts of
hominid discoveries, eg, the Perning/Mojokerto fossil, the
E-most He known (oldest hominid outside Africa? 1.81 ± .04
Ma, Swisher cs.1994), is in a marine deltaic setting.

Large lake/lagoon. Marine deltaic setting.

:-)

And our little boys call that savanna...

:-D

BTW, these environments were exactly what Derek Ellis
described already several years ago in his classic: "Is an
aquatic ape viable in terms of marine ecology & primate
behaviour?" In M.Roede, J.Wind, V.Reynolds eds. "The aquatic
ape: fact or fiction?" Souvenir. See esp.his fig.4.3. (The
answer to his questions was obviously: "Yes".)

³Aquatic Ape Theory², contrary to what a few obsolete &
uninformed self-named "scientists" (a few exemplars of this
kind can still be found at sci.anthrop.paleo) still think, is
not about apes, nor about having been aquatic, nor about
australopiths. The physiological, anatomical, behavioural &
DNA differences between Homo & Pan clearly show that our Homo
ancestors some time after the Homo/Pan split ~5 Ma lived at
the waterside. AAT says our ancestors after the H/P split
dispersed along shorelines & riversides, not over dry & open
plains, as some savanna fanatics still claim. Luckily all
well-informed PAs now agree with a wet rather than dry past,
eg, Ph.Tobias http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm
Chr.Stringer http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/003982.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAT

[Lee Olsen]

On Jun 28, 12:49 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 28-06-2007 00:56, in artikel
> 1182984980.952966.189...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> ...
>
Falsifies the waterside hypothesis:
>
> > Says the amateur who claims: "Mojokerto = marine."
>
> Yes, my boy, please inform a little bit before opening your
> big mouth:

Yes doughboy, try it yourself. Doughboy must live in a
third-world country with libraries that have only out
-of-date material.

> OF Huffman 1999

ROFL

Try something 4 years newer and you will learn something.

Huffman, O. F, and Y. Zaim. (2003). Mojokerto Delta, East
Jawa: Paleoenvironment of Homo modjokertensis-First Results.
Submitted to Journal of Mineral Technology, v.10, n. 2.

"Test excavations at the hominid site during 2001 and 2002
field seasons produced 250 fossil vertebrates. The nature of
the recovery suggests that additional hominid remains may be
found in the bed. Fossils from the excavations and nearby
surface collecting suggest that deer, muntjak, bovids, pig,
hippopotamus, rhinoceros, Stegodon, and large cat inhabited
the delta, together with Homo erectus.

The delta plain included-and perhaps was largely covered
with-- grasslands. Stable-carbon isotope signatures ( 13C)
have been obtained from the enamel of teeth of bovids,
cervids, and other animals from the hominid bed and other
localities in the hominid-bearing sequence in the Perning
district. This is the first use the stable-isotope method to
characterize the paleoenvironment of Homo erectus in Jawa. The
results encourage the more widespread use of the technique.
Most of the carbon isotope results fit the C4 photosynthetic
pathway characteristic of tropical grasses."

> And our little boys call that savanna...

Doughboy is too stupid to know rhinos and C4 grasses = savanna
or savanna-like.

One more thing amateur doughboy, the Homo fossils floated in
from a point unknown. Homo bodies can float for as much as 100
km from the highlands before coming to rest at the location
where they are found.

There is no reason to believe this fossil had a home base
anywhere near where it was found. Once again, it is only
Marc's lunatic imagination that claims otherwise.

[Lee Olsen]

On Jun 24, 4:30 pm, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 25-06-2007 01:03, in artikel
> 1182726221.768598.287...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:

No answer, what could he say?

>
>
>
> > Says doughboy who cites 20+ year-old sources from
> > amaterurs.... What a hypocryte. Marc thinks he is a
> > racoon...he has the brains of a racoon is closer to the
> > truth. So now you have turned into a racist also? You are
> > an insult to Eskimos.- Hide quoted text -

[Day Brown]

On Jun 24, 9:32 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> No answer, what could he say?
Maybe he's busy.
>What else can explain our SC fat, body alignment, fur
>reduction, climbing
reduction, slow running speed & diving skills, stone tool use,
extreme dexterity, brain enlangement, dependence on PUFAs,
sodium & iodine, etc.? Your savanna stories?? :-D Back to
school, my little boy. >

Why not discuss the discovery of the skull in Chad, dated 6mil
BP, and the environment there which explains these traits?

[Marc Verha]

Op 28-06-2007 18:48, in artikel
1183049333.292777.240030@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jun 28, 12:49 am, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Op 28-06-2007 00:56, in artikel
>> 1182984980.952966.189...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>> ...
>>
> Falsifies the waterside hypothesis:
>>
>>> Says the amateur who claims: "Mojokerto = marine."
>>
>> Yes, my boy, please inform a little bit before opening your
>> big mouth:
>
> Yes doughboy, try it yourself. Doughboy must live in a
> third-world country with libraries that have only out
> -of-date material.
>
>> OF Huffman 1999
>
> ROFL Try something 4 years newer and you will learn
> something.

My little boy, it's a confirmation of his earlier paper:

OF Huffman 1999 "Variety in the Paleoenvironment of early Homo
erectus of Java, Indonesia" JHE 36:A8-A9

The Plio-Pleist.geology of E-Java provides insight into the
paleo-ecology of early He. The connection betw.geology &
paleo-ecology is found in the litho-& bio-facies of the
hominid-bearing fms & correlative geol.units. The facies
indicate that the 125 by 250 km area of known hominid fossil
occurrence contained volcanic mountains, calcareous uplands,
broad river valleys, sandy river courses, a large
lake/lagoon, a coarse-clastic marine delta & the
muddy/calcareous shorelines of a marine embayment during the
Plio-Pleist. He presumably frequented these
paleo-geogr.districts, as well as a volcanic coast & the
Indian Ocean shore that were located nearby. This complex of
phys.conditions undoubtedly supported a diverse set of
eco-systems - it does so in modern Indonesia - the homeland
of early He evidently offered many potential hominid
habitats. Diverse habitats are suggested by the contexts of
hominid discoveries, eg, the Perning/Mojokerto fossil, the
E-most He known (oldest hominid outside Africa? 1.81 ± .04
Ma, Swisher cs.1994), is in a marine deltaic setting.

Large lake/lagoon. Marine deltaic setting.

:-)

And our little boys call that savanna...

:-D

BTW, these environments were exactly what Derek Ellis
described already several years ago in his classic: "Is an
aquatic ape viable in terms of marine ecology & primate
behaviour?" In M.Roede, J.Wind, V.Reynolds eds. "The aquatic
ape: fact or fiction?" Souvenir. See esp.his fig.4.3. (The
answer to his questions was obviously: "Yes".)

³Aquatic Ape Theory², contrary to what a few obsolete &
uninformed self-named "scientists" (a few exemplars of this
kind can still be found at sci.anthrop.paleo) still think, is
not about apes, nor about having been aquatic, nor about
australopiths. The physiological, anatomical, behavioural &
DNA differences between Homo & Pan clearly show that our Homo
ancestors some time after the Homo/Pan split ~5 Ma lived at
the waterside. AAT says our ancestors after the H/P split
dispersed along shorelines & riversides, not over dry & open
plains, as some savanna fanatics still claim. Luckily all
well-informed PAs now agree with a wet rather than dry past,
eg, Ph.Tobias http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm
Chr.Stringer http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/003982.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAT

[Lee Olsen]

On Jun 25, 10:42 pm, Day Brown <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote:
> On Jun 24, 9:32 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:> No answer, what could he say? Maybe he's busy.

Hmmm, 211 posts for June so far, no I don't think he is busy.

> >What else can explain our SC fat, body alignment, fur
> >reduction, climbing
>
> reduction, slow running speed & diving skills, stone tool
> use, extreme dexterity, brain enlangement, dependence on
> PUFAs, sodium & iodine, etc.? Your savanna stories?? :-D
> Back to school, my little boy. >
>
> Why not discuss the discovery of the skull in Chad,
> dated 6mil BP, and the environment there which explains
> these traits?

Because Marc said: Message-ID:
<430778e6$0$6564$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> Marc Verhaegen: "AAT
is about Homo, *not* about hominids in general."

[Lee Olsen]

On Jun 27, 3:09 am, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 27-06-2007 04:23, in artikel
> 1182911005.471051.251...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> > On Jun 25, 10:42 pm, Day Brown <daybr...@hughes.net>
> > wrote:
> >> On Jun 24, 9:32 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:> No answer, what could he say? Maybe he's busy.
>
> > Hmmm, 211 posts for June so far, no I don't think he
> > is busy.
> >>> What else can explain our SC fat, body alignment, fur
> >>> reduction, climbing reduction, slow running speed &
> >>> diving skills, stone tool use, extreme dexterity, brain
> >>> enlangement, dependence on PUFAs, sodium & iodine, etc.?
> >>> Your savanna stories?? :-D Back to school, my little
> >>> boy.
> >> Why not discuss the discovery of the skull in Chad, dated
> >> 6mil BP, and the environment there which explains these
> >> traits?
>

Confirms the savanna hypothesis:

>"The rich fauna from TM 266 includes a significant
>aquatic component such as fish, crocodiles and amphibious
>mammals, alongside animals associated with gallery forest
>and savannah, such as primates, rodents, elephants,
>equids and bovids."

Savanna, thank you. You finally got it.

>
> > Because Marc said: Message-ID:
> > <430778e6$0$6564$ba620...@news.skynet.be> Marc Verhaegen:
> > "AAT is about Homo, *not* about hominids in general."
>
> Why, my little boy, do you write "because"?? Ill-informed as
> usual: don't you even know that AAT is only part of my
> interests?? What makes you believe that I don't discuss
> apiths?? I wrote a lot of papers on apiths, but no doubt you
> are unaware of this, eg:

Doughboy, why are all these citations so old? Even textbooks
aren't that out-of-date.

>
> 1987. Origin of hominid bipedalism. Nature 325, 305-306.
> 1992. Did robust australopithecines partly feed on hard
> parts of Gramineae? Human Evolution 7, 63-64. 1994.
> Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes? Human
> Evolution 9, 121-139. 1996. Morphological distance between
> australopithecine, human and ape skulls. Human Evolution 11,
> 35-41. 1998. Australopithecine ancestors of African apes? M.
> A. Raath, H. Soodyall,
> D. Barkhan, K. L. Kuykendall & P. V. Tobias eds. Dual
> Congress. University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg,
> 128-129. 1998. M. Verhaegen & P.-F. Puech. Wetland apes:
> hominid palaeo-environment and diet. Ibidem, 47. 2000.
> MV, P.-F.Puech. Hominid lifestyle and diet reconsidered:
> paleo-environmental and comparative data. Human Evolution
> 15, 175-186 2002. M. Verhaegen, P.-F. Puech & S. Munro.
> Aquarboreal ancestors? Trends in Ecology & Evolution 17,
> 212-217

[Lee Olsen]

Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> Op 27-06-2007 13:47, in artikel
> 1182944857.526446.242790@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> > On Jun 27, 3:09 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
> > wrote:
> >> Op 27-06-2007 04:23, in artikel
> >> 1182911005.471051.251...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com,
> >> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> schreef:
> >>
> >>> On Jun 25, 10:42 pm, Day Brown <daybr...@hughes.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Jun 24, 9:32 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:> No answer, what could he say? Maybe he's busy.
> >>
> >>> Hmmm, 211 posts for June so far, no I don't think he is
> >>> busy.
> >>>>> What else can explain our SC fat, body alignment, fur
> >>>>> reduction, climbing reduction, slow running speed &
> >>>>> diving skills, stone tool use, extreme dexterity,
> >>>>> brain enlangement, dependence on PUFAs, sodium &
> >>>>> iodine, etc.? Your savanna stories?? :-D Back to
> >>>>> school, my little boy.
> >>>> Why not discuss the discovery of the skull in Chad,
> >>>> dated 6mil BP, and the environment there which explains
> >>>> these traits?
>
> Confirms the waterside hypothesis:

Says the amateur who claims: "Mojokerto = marine."

>
> >> "The rich fauna from TM 266 includes a significant
> >> aquatic component such as fish, crocodiles and amphibious
> >> mammals, alongside animals associated with gallery forest
> >> and savannah, such as primates, rodents, elephants,
> >> equids and bovids."
>
savanna, thank you. You finally got it.

>
> >>> Because Marc said: Message-ID:
> >>> <430778e6$0$6564$ba620...@news.skynet.be> Marc
> >>> Verhaegen: "AAT is about Homo, *not* about hominids in
> >>> general."
>
> >> Why, my little boy, do you write "because"?? Ill-informed
> >> as usual: don't you even know that AAT is only part of my
> >> interests?? What makes you believe that I don't discuss
> >> apiths?? I wrote a lot of papers on apiths, but no doubt
> >> you are unaware of this, eg:
>
> > Doughboy, why are all these citations so old?
>
> Because you're are too stupid to find an answer perhaps? :-D

Stupid fool, no coconuts, no kelp, no oysters, only cut-marked
savanna animal bones.

>
> > Even textbooks aren't that out-of-date.
>
> Textbooks follow years after new insights, didn't you know??

> R.Wrangham 2005 The Delta Hypothesis: hominoid ecology &
> hominin origins
> D.Lieberman, R.Smith & J.Kelley Interpreting the past:
> essays on human, primate & mammal evolution in honor of
> David Pilbeam Brill Ac.Publishers Boston: 231-242

Doughboy, quote where they say "Mojokerto = marine" you
shameless liar.

Can't believe anyone would cite this out-of-date stuff.
> >> 1987. Origin of hominid bipedalism. Nature 325, 305-306.
> >> 1992. Did robust australopithecines partly feed on hard
> >> parts of Gramineae? Human Evolution 7, 63-64. 1994.
> >> Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes? Human
> >> Evolution 9, 121-139. 1996. Morphological distance
> >> between australopithecine, human and ape skulls. Human
> >> Evolution 11, 35-41. 1998. Australopithecine ancestors of
> >> African apes? M. A. Raath, H. Soodyall,
> >> D. Barkhan, K. L. Kuykendall & P. V. Tobias eds. Dual
> >> Congress. University of the Witwatersrand,
> >> Johannesburg, 128-129. 1998. M. Verhaegen & P.-F.
> >> Puech. Wetland apes: hominid palaeo-environment and
> >> diet. Ibidem, 47. 2000. MV, P.-F.Puech. Hominid
> >> lifestyle and diet reconsidered: paleo-environmental
> >> and comparative data. Human Evolution 15, 175-186
> >> 2002. M. Verhaegen, P.-F. Puech & S. Munro.
> >> Aquarboreal ancestors? Trends in Ecology & Evolution
> >> 17, 212-217
> >

[Lee Olsen]

On Jun 28, 4:22 pm, Marc Verhaegen
<m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> Op 28-06-2007 18:48, in artikel
> 1183049333.292777.240...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com, Lee
> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 28, 12:49 am, Marc Verhaegen
> > <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
> >> Op 28-06-2007 00:56, in artikel
> >> 1182984980.952966.189...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
> >> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
> >> schreef:
>
> >> ...
>
> > Falsifies the waterside hypothesis:
>
> >>> Says the amateur who claims: "Mojokerto = marine."
>
> >> Yes, my boy, please inform a little bit before opening
> >> your big mouth:
>
> > Yes doughboy, try it yourself. Doughboy must live in a
> > third-world country with libraries that have only out
> > -of-date material.
>
> >> OF Huffman 1999
>
> > ROFL Try something 4 years newer and you will learn
> > something.
>
> My little boy, it's a confirmation of his earlier paper:
>
> OF Huffman 1999 "Variety in the Paleoenvironment of early
> Homo erectus of Java, Indonesia" JHE 36:A8-A9
>

Doughboy, Your confirmation was overturned doughboy.

Huffman, O. F, and Y. Zaim. (2003). Mojokerto Delta, East
Jawa: Paleoenvironment of Homo modjokertensis-First Results.
Submitted to Journal of Mineral Technology, v.10, n. 2. "Test
excavations at the hominid site during 2001 and 2002 field
seasons produced 250 fossil vertebrates. The nature of the
recovery suggests that additional hominid remains may be found
in the bed. Fossils from the excavations and nearby surface
collecting suggest that deer, muntjak, bovids, pig,
hippopotamus, rhinoceros, Stegodon, and large cat inhabited
the delta, together with Homo erectus."

Too stupid to understand Moko Homo found amid savanna and
woodland mammals as reported in 2003 paper?

>
> Large lake/lagoon. Marine deltaic setting.

Rhinos and large cats are now marine mammals in your sick,
diluted mind? You are mentally ill. Get some help.

>
> :-)
>
> And our little boys call that savanna...

Of course, what do you think this is, algae?

"The delta plain included-and perhaps was largely covered
with-- grasslands. Stable-carbon isotope signatures ( 13C)
have been obtained from the enamel of teeth of bovids,
cervids, and other animals from the hominid bed and other
localities in the hominid-bearing sequence in the Perning
district. This is the first use the stable-isotope method to
characterize the paleoenvironment of Homo erectus in Jawa. The
results encourage the more widespread use of the technique.
Most of the carbon isotope results fit the C4 photosynthetic
pathway characteristic of tropical grasses."

> BTW, these environments were exactly what Derek Ellis
> described already several years ago in his classic: "Is an
> aquatic ape viable in terms of marine ecology & primate
> behaviour?" In M.Roede, J.Wind, V.Reynolds eds. "The aquatic
> ape: fact or fiction?" Souvenir. See esp.his fig.4.3. (The
> answer to his questions was obviously: "Yes".)
>

Did Derek Ellis cite Huffman, O. F, and Y. Zaim. (2003) before
asking such a ridiculous question? No? I though not. The
answer then is false.

Mojo Homo utilized land mammals, same as elsewhere, just like:

Clark (1992:23): "Stage III is found in an adjcent
quarry--called S.T.I.C.--and is in a primary context. the
artifacts occur with vertebrate fauna in a limestone layer
overlying the regressive Maarifian beach gravel. The activity
area is associated with a freshwater stream that drained onto
the beach nearby. The faunal remains all come from large
terrestrial mammals and there is no indication, at this or any
other site in Morocco, that marine fauna was made use of."

J. Desmond Clark 1992 The Earlier Stone Age/Lower Paleolithic
in North Africa and the Sahara. In (F. Klees and R. Kuper,
Eds) New Light on the Northeast African Past, pp.17-37.
African Praehistorica, 5. Koln: Heinrich Barth Institut.

[Marc Verha]

Op 27-06-2007 04:23, in artikel
1182911005.471051.251050@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jun 25, 10:42 pm, Day Brown <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote:
>> On Jun 24, 9:32 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:> No answer, what could he say? Maybe he's busy.
>
> Hmmm, 211 posts for June so far, no I don't think he
> is busy.

>>> What else can explain our SC fat, body alignment, fur
>>> reduction, climbing reduction, slow running speed & diving
>>> skills, stone tool use, extreme dexterity, brain
>>> enlangement, dependence on PUFAs, sodium & iodine, etc.?
>>> Your savanna stories?? :-D Back to school, my little boy.

>> Why not discuss the discovery of the skull in Chad, dated
>> 6mil BP, and the environment there which explains these
>> traits?

Confirms the aquarboreal hypothesis: "The rich fauna from TM
266 includes a significant aquatic component such as fish,
crocodiles and amphibious mammals, alongside animals
associated with gallery forest and savannah, such as primates,
rodents, elephants, equids and bovids." Skull is
+-gorilla-like (cf. Ndoki gorillas wading in swamp forests in
search for aquatic herbaceous vegetation & waterside plants &
fruits & sedges).

> Because Marc said: Message-ID:
> <430778e6$0$6564$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be> Marc Verhaegen:
> "AAT is about Homo, *not* about hominids in general."

Why, my little boy, do you write "because"?? Ill-informed as
usual: don't you even know that AAT is only part of my
interests?? What makes you believe that I don't discuss
apiths?? I wrote a lot of papers on apiths, but no doubt you
are unaware of this, eg:

1987. Origin of hominid bipedalism. Nature 325, 305-306.
1992. Did robust australopithecines partly feed on hard parts
of Gramineae? Human Evolution 7, 63-64. 1994.
Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes? Human
Evolution 9, 121-139. 1996. Morphological distance between
australopithecine, human and ape skulls. Human Evolution 11,
35-41. 1998. Australopithecine ancestors of African apes? M.
A. Raath, H. Soodyall,
D. Barkhan, K. L. Kuykendall & P. V. Tobias eds. Dual
Congress. University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg,
128-129. 1998. M. Verhaegen & P.-F. Puech. Wetland apes:
hominid palaeo-environment and diet. Ibidem, 47. 2000.
MV, P.-F.Puech. Hominid lifestyle and diet reconsidered:
paleo-environmental and comparative data. Human
Evolution 15, 175-186 2002. M. Verhaegen, P.-F. Puech &
S. Munro. Aquarboreal ancestors? Trends in Ecology &
Evolution 17, 212-217

[Marc Verha]

Op 27-06-2007 13:47, in artikel
1182944857.526446.242790@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jun 27, 3:09 am, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Op 27-06-2007 04:23, in artikel
>> 1182911005.471051.251...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>>> On Jun 25, 10:42 pm, Day Brown <daybr...@hughes.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Jun 24, 9:32 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:> No answer, what could he say? Maybe he's busy.
>>
>>> Hmmm, 211 posts for June so far, no I don't think he
>>> is busy.
>>>>> What else can explain our SC fat, body alignment, fur
>>>>> reduction, climbing reduction, slow running speed &
>>>>> diving skills, stone tool use, extreme dexterity, brain
>>>>> enlangement, dependence on PUFAs, sodium & iodine, etc.?
>>>>> Your savanna stories?? :-D Back to school, my little
>>>>> boy.
>>>> Why not discuss the discovery of the skull in Chad, dated
>>>> 6mil BP, and the environment there which explains these
>>>> traits?

Confirms the waterside hypothesis:

>> "The rich fauna from TM 266 includes a significant aquatic
>> component such as fish, crocodiles and amphibious mammals,
>> alongside animals associated with gallery forest and
>> savannah, such as primates, rodents, elephants, equids and
>> bovids."

Waterside, thank you. You finally got it.

>>> Because Marc said: Message-ID:
>>> <430778e6$0$6564$ba620...@news.skynet.be> Marc Verhaegen:
>>> "AAT is about Homo, *not* about hominids in general."

>> Why, my little boy, do you write "because"?? Ill-informed
>> as usual: don't you even know that AAT is only part of my
>> interests?? What makes you believe that I don't discuss
>> apiths?? I wrote a lot of papers on apiths, but no doubt
>> you are unaware of this, eg:

> Doughboy, why are all these citations so old?

Because you're are too stupid to find an answer perhaps? :-D

> Even textbooks aren't that out-of-date.

Textbooks follow years after new insights, didn't you know??
:-D
Start with this homework, my boy:
R.Wrangham 2005 The Delta Hypothesis: hominoid ecology &
hominin origins
S.Lieberman, R.Smith & J.Kelley Interpreting the past: essays
on human, primate & mammal evolution in honor of David
Pilbeam Brill Ac.Publishers Boston: 231-242 Can be found in
the AAT files http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAT

_______

>> 1987. Origin of hominid bipedalism. Nature 325, 305-306.
>> 1992. Did robust australopithecines partly feed on hard
>> parts of Gramineae? Human Evolution 7, 63-64. 1994.
>> Australopithecines: ancestors of the African apes? Human
>> Evolution 9, 121-139. 1996. Morphological distance between
>> australopithecine, human and ape skulls. Human Evolution
>> 11, 35-41. 1998. Australopithecine ancestors of African
>> apes? M. A. Raath, H. Soodyall,
>> D. Barkhan, K. L. Kuykendall & P. V. Tobias eds. Dual
>> Congress. University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg,
>> 128-129. 1998. M. Verhaegen & P.-F. Puech. Wetland apes:
>> hominid palaeo-environment and diet. Ibidem, 47. 2000.
>> MV, P.-F.Puech. Hominid lifestyle and diet reconsidered:
>> paleo-environmental and comparative data. Human
>> Evolution 15, 175-186 2002. M. Verhaegen, P.-F. Puech &
>> S. Munro. Aquarboreal ancestors? Trends in Ecology &
>> Evolution 17, 212-217

[Aardvark J]

"Lee Olsen" <paleocity@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1183172622.925309.161400@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 29, 2:21 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>

Why don't you two just get a room?

[Marc Verha]

Op 30-06-2007 05:03, in artikel
1183172622.925309.161400@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
Olsen <paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jun 29, 2:21 pm, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>
> "Mojokerto = marine"
>
> Yes, doughboyboy: erectus = C4 savanna delta.

Was this so difficult?

>> Don't you think you were really stupid to haved thought
>> they came all the way to Mojokerto over savannas? :-)

> Doughboy, how do you think cheetahs got to China? Do you
> think they swam all the way through the swamps eating algae?
> How do you think rhinos got to Mojokerto, by being littorial
> eating oysters on the way? Why don't you grow up and try
> thinking before posting.

Ho do you think sea otters & capuchins open oysters? My little
child, do you really believe rhinos use tools?? :-D No doubt,
Olson is the most stupid of the savanna crowd.

[Marc Verha]

Op 30-06-2007 15:02, in artikel
1183208554.660455.28220@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee Olsen
<paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jun 30, 2:57 am, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Op 30-06-2007 05:03, in artikel
>> 1183172622.925309.161...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>> schreef:
>>
>>> On Jun 29, 2:21 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Mojokerto = marine"
>>
>>> Yes, doughboyboy: erectus = C4 savanna delta.
>
> Yes doughboy, delta is land with savanna grass, not "marine"
> as you erroneously stated.

Delta = seaside.

:-)

Was this so difficult?

[Marc Verha]

Op 30-06-2007 19:04, in artikel
1183223051.176585.6910@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee Olsen
<paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:

> On Jun 30, 7:13 am, Marc Verhaegen
> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>> Op 30-06-2007 15:02, in artikel
>> 1183208554.660455.28...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Lee
>> Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> schreef:
>>
>>> On Jun 30, 2:57 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Op 30-06-2007 05:03, in artikel
>>>> 1183172622.925309.161...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com,
>>>> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
>>>> schreef:
>>
>>>>> On Jun 29, 2:21 pm, Marc Verhaegen
>>>>> <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>
>>>>> "Mojokerto = marine"
>>
>>>>> Yes, doughboyboy: erectus = C4 savanna delta.
>>
>>> Yes doughboy, delta is land with savanna grass, not
>>> "marine" as you erroneously stated.
>>
>> Delta =
>
> savanna where bones were found.
>
>> seaside.
>
> Which is not where the Homo bones were found, got it?
>
>
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Was this so difficult?
>
> It is for you until you learn to read English correctly.
>
> The Mojo Homo fossil was not found in the same geological
> layer as the mollusks.

It was, my boy. Inform.