No Energy!

[DietMonstr]

I've noticed that when I have carbs the day before, my energy is lovely when I have my morning workout and for the rest of the day. However, when I'm in ketosis, I have none. I force myself to get through the workouts and am tired for the rest of the day. This doesnt surprise me since carbs are a more ready source of energy, but I'm wondering what you guys do about it. Do those that work out a lot eat more carbs? Should I just wait it out- will I become more used to it?

My usual routine is 45 minutes of light-moderate cardio (elliptical/treadmill) and I weight train 4 times a week (I just started the slow burn method, did abs today- Killer!), different body parts. I just started going back to the gym about 3 weeks ago after a year long vacation.

[kaypeeoh]

I'm in the same boat, trying to do quality workouts without carbs in my system. Those who know say eventually you lose the need for carbs. Now I'm trying to increase fat intake, in hopes of stimulating more fat-burning enzymes.

[erinleigh]

I've heard that the more harder you work out the more carbs you eat..

[kaypeeoh]

If you're burning carbs by working above 90% of maximum heart rate, you end up with low blood sugar which stimulates appetite. If you work that hard and can avoid replenishing the carbs, the body should start using fat instead. Just another theory of how a low carb diet should work.

I'm not sure I believe it. I think by working that hard you're stressing your body severely. In response the body produces more cortisol (endogenous steroid) which triggers gluconeogenesis which replenishes the lost carbs.

[JL53563]

Do those that work out a lot eat more carbs? Should I just wait it out- will I become more used to it?
I work out regularly and intensely on a near zero-carb diet. It can work, but it will take time for your body to make the switch to using virtually all fat for energy. Phinney did a study concerning exercise on a ketogenic diet. Highly trained cyclists found that their endurance was just as good on a ketogenic diet as on their "regular" diet. Several things are critical, though.

Carbs must be kept very low....in the study they consumed less than 2% of their calories as carbs. Protein must be kept to a moderate amount....I believe it was between 15-25%. And finally you need to give the body time to adapt. In the study the cyclists performance was poor after one week on the diet, but then gradually improved and after 5 weeks on the diet they were performing as well as before.

[ValerieL]

My experience with working out is the same as yours, DietMonstr. I tried giving my body time to adapt to ketosis and low-carb but it didn't work for me. Even staying low carb quite strictly for a few weeks, I wasn't getting any improvement. I'm not sure that adaptation would be the best answer for me anyway as I'm just not much of a perfectionist with my diet, I have a cheat every once in a while and my maintenance carbs aren't that low.

I found for me a better answer was TKD, targeted ketogenic dieting. I eat low-carb most of the time and take in high glycemic carbs right before I workout. I don't find I have any trouble with hunger or cravings from the carbs if I have them right before my workout and I get a good workout then.

[kaypeeoh]

I think I read in the Phinney study that although the athletes on the ketogenic diet did as well as the control athletes on high carb, the ketogenic athletes felt they were working a lot harder than they had been when on the standard high carb athletes diet. Most said they would not continue on the ketogenic diet once the study was done.

Like ValerieL, I do better with carbs on board. Yesterday I was dreading my planned lunchtime run because I knew it would be a slow slog. So I bagged it and had a high carb lunch: two whole wheat turkey sandwiches. Then after work I went to the gym and did a 10 mile run at 8:00 pace. That's about the fastest I've ever run.

[lkpetro]

Do you all find it is more important for you to have carbs pre-run vs. post run-- I do find my runs much better when I have half banana pre, but I am struggling still with post. I want to have my general low carb fair (the is breakfast for me) of eggs and veggies, sometimes that works but sometimes it leaves me feeling fatigued, moody and a blood sugar crash about three hours later

[Ghoulia]

Wow, I find that if I have carbs my workout SUCKS! REALLY, REALLY SUCKS.

I ate a pile of them last night, and today I just wasn't feelin' my cardio at all, so I stopped and did weights instead, but my heart sure wasn't in it. I plugged through them, but I wasn't my usual gung-ho hyper self.

I usually do 20 minutes of the stairmaster, 20 on the elliptical, 20 on the treadmill and 10 on the bike. On weight days I do 10 on the stairmaster, 10 on the elliptical and 10 on the treadmill, then 40 to 50 minutes of weights. Usually about 10 machines total with 3 sets of 10 reps for each.

I just can't believe how lethargic I was today. But then, maybe it was the KIND of carbs I ate? Would that even matter? I kinda had a rendezvous with a bag of Resees miniatures...um, and some other chocolate...and, some froot loops and some cheetos and pirate's booty. Naughty, NAUGHTY me.

Ah well.

Julia

[lkpetro]

there is a difference between sugar and carbs

[DietMonstr]

I had 6-7 HUGE strawberries last night along with my usual low carb dinner. I had GREAT energy this morning and had a great workout!

Ghoulia, I would think that eating the sugar would cause you to crash and burn rather than have lasting energy- I'm probably the wrong person to answer this question though. But I know that if I have some candy in the middle of the day, I tend to feel really tired and lethargic a little while later- maybe because of blood sugar levels? I dunno, but I do know that if you're going to have carbs, it would probably be best not to have them in Reese's form :)

So I have decided to up my carbs a bit in the evening so that I have a great, energetic, beneficial, feel good workout. That is more important to me. And the fact that I can see my muscles flexing in my calves :)

Thanks for your input everyone!

[DietMonstr]

Do you all find it is more important for you to have carbs pre-run vs. post run-- I do find my runs much better when I have half banana pre, but I am struggling still with post. I want to have my general low carb fair (the is breakfast for me) of eggs and veggies, sometimes that works but sometimes it leaves me feeling fatigued, moody and a blood sugar crash about three hours later

I find pre-run carbs to be more important. I can't see any reason to have them post. After a run, I dont even feel like eating anyway, I usually eat a low carb dinner and I feel fine. Maybe try experimenting with a few post-run carbs to see if it makes you feel better?

[kaypeeoh]

I find pre-run carbs to be more important. I can't see any reason to have them post. After a run, I dont even feel like eating anyway, I usually eat a low carb dinner and I feel fine. Maybe try experimenting with a few post-run carbs to see if it makes you feel better?

The conventional wisdom, which can be wrong, says that after the workout the body has a short window of opportunity to absorb needed nutrients. So after a hard workout I have a high protein meal. Usually nuts or soymilk.

[Ghoulia]

yeah, i can understand the crash and burn of the actual SUGAR later on in the night, but i would think that those excess carbs stores, no matter WHAT the source, would have helped me in my workout the next day regardless of where they came from

but i guess not! ah twell, carry on!

Julia

[westcoast]

I'm the same way; I have extreme muscle fatigue with this low-carb thing. I run a lot but have been doing that for years and years and now all of a sudden it's hard to walk up stairs. I'm done losing the weight, now I'm just maintaining, so I'm wondering if I need to add in whole grains or something, ugh! I eat lots of fruits and veggies, and would think these would replenish the glycogen (?) stores, but I guess not...I don't like it. I want to be able to run, not be exhausted because my muscles are drained from no carbs.

[JL53563]

You may be in what I call "no man's land". You're eating too many carbs for your body to become keto adapted, but you're not getting enough carbs to give you the energy you're looking for. Most fruits and veggies actually don't provide a whole lot of energy. I have no idea, but lets say your eating 50g of carbs per day from fruits and veggies, which could actually be quite alot of food. That 50g of carbs is providing you with 200 calories. And most of that is probably not going to fuel your runs.

I am on a near zero carb diet, and I have plenty of energy for my runs. Of course, you could increase your carbs. You might be able to run faster, but you might be worse off overall in the long run.

[westcoast]

I'm sure this answer is somewhere but just thought I'd ask here first: where is your energy coming from if you are not taking in carbs? Doesn't your brain need a daily supply of glucose?

[JL53563]

I'm sure this answer is somewhere but just thought I'd ask here first: where is your energy coming from if you are not taking in carbs? Doesn't your brain need a daily supply of glucose?

My energy comes from fat and ketones, which are a bi-product of fat metabolism. Yes, parts of the brain, and some other cells do need glucose. The human body is perfectly capable of making all the glucose it needs. It's called gluconeogenesis. The human body has zero requirement for dietary carbs.

[westcoast]

[QUOTE=JL53563]You may be in what I call "no man's land". You're eating too many carbs for your body to become keto adapted, but you're not getting enough carbs to give you the energy you're looking for. Most fruits and veggies actually don't provide a whole lot of energy. I have no idea, but lets say your eating 50g of carbs per day from fruits and veggies, which could actually be quite alot of food. That 50g of carbs is providing you with 200 calories. And most of that is probably not going to fuel your runs.

Well, this is sort of answering my question: I obviosuly need to read about Atkins, down to the nitty-gritty! So until you go through "ketosis," you're not really, truly doing the low-carb thing and will still "need" sugar. I reduced my carbs, but never did the zero carb thing - I always had at least 3 fruits a day with lots of veggies. So I guess I'm still surviving on the sugars/carbs, and haven't weened myself off of them, meaning I will be cranky and low energy if I don't have my carbs... bummer! I thought I was doing it! I guess I have to go the zero-carb route for a week or something....? Guess it's time for research. But it's just easier to post questions on here :)

[JL53563]

Check this out. Some very good information about physical performance on a ketogenic diet. My own experience confirms what this talks about.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2