Fake Protein Supplements?

[Prisoner A]

Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company
by a bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend,
Dorian Yates Approved -- since these guys, presumably,
wouldn't want to get a bad reputation for shoddy products.
(How about Gaspari Nutrition, then? Or Bentacourt....)

But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that
there are companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've
never heard a name mentioned at all. So, which companies sell
b.s. protein powders? Which brand's protein mix is not really
protein, or not the advertised protein, etc.?

How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about
them, considering that they sell the absolute cheapest protein
powder anywhere! From what little research I was able to
conduct, they seem to be supplied -- despite their claims of
manufacturing their own stuff -- by a company called Proteint
in MN, which supposedly has the largest whey isolate facility
in the whole world!

And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement
endorsements himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy Franco
Columbu never went into this business (I understand they were
partners in some construction company they had, which
apparently afforded them all those hours at the gym and all
those steroids!)....

[Dave]

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179280907.606543.296030@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company
> by a bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend,
> Dorian Yates Approved -- since these guys, presumably,
> wouldn't want to get a bad reputation for shoddy products.
> (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then? Or Bentacourt....)
>
> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that
> there are companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've
> never heard a name mentioned at all. So, which companies
> sell b.s. protein powders? Which brand's protein mix is not
> really protein, or not the advertised protein, etc.?

It's not much, and I don't have a source, but years ago I read
an article that criticized whey protein manufacturers. The
gist was that they say how whey protein isolate was shown
effective with such-and-such results, but then they turn
around and sell a different product, whey protein concentrate,
because it's cheaper to make. But I searched on google
products (used to be Froogle), and the isolate variety only
seems to be a little more expensive on average than the
concentrate.

Did they wise up? Are health food stores carrying whey protein
isolate now too?

David

--
Adamant Barbell Unyielding steel, built for abuse
www.adamantbarbell.com

[Will Brink]

In article
<1179280907.606543.296030@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company
> by a bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend,
> Dorian Yates Approved -- since these guys, presumably,
> wouldn't want to get a bad reputation for shoddy products.
> (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then? Or Bentacourt....)
>
> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that
> there are companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've
> never heard a name mentioned at all. So, which companies
> sell b.s. protein powders?

What is a "b.s. protein powder"? Define that first.

OCD/ADHD ramble snipped.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Tom Anders]

On Wed, 15 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:

> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company
> by a bodybuilder

What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their advice,
because they're an idiot.

> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that
> there are companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've
> never heard a name mentioned at all.

Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded
bullshitters.

Rip-off products in general, yes, but protein powder? The
stuff is so cheap for the manufacturers to buy that it
doesn't seem worth it. I mean, they'd have to find something
cheaper to cut it with, and short of fly ash, i can't think
of anything!

tom

--
The RAMAN VESSEL enters the SOLAR SYSTEM. The explorers
explore it, and it is COOL. Then they LEAVE. Then the Raman
vessel LEAVES. -- Book-A-Minute SF/F

[Prisoner A]

The bodybuilding.com boards, for starters. Of course, it's
what those ads themselves claim -- essentially, "my name is
here because this is real protein unlike some no-name brands."

Yes, whey protein does seem cheap these days -- surprised so
many college students are still living on ramen noodles! --
but that only means the profits would be even greater for
unscrupulous companies.

On May 16, 9:36 am, Tom Anderson <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>
> What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their advice,
> because they're an idiot.
>
> Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded
> bullshitters.
>
> Rip-off products in general, yes, but protein powder? The
> stuff is so cheap for the manufacturers to buy that it
> doesn't seem worth it. I mean, they'd have to find something
> cheaper to cut it with, and short of fly ash, i can't think
> of anything!
>
> tom
>
> --
> The RAMAN VESSEL enters the SOLAR SYSTEM. The explorers
> explore it, and it is COOL. Then they LEAVE. Then the Raman
> vessel LEAVES. -- Book-A-Minute SF/F

[Prisoner A]

On May 15, 10:51 pm, "Dave" <t...@test.com> wrote:
>
>
> It's not much, and I don't have a source, but years ago I
> read an article that criticized whey protein manufacturers.
> The gist was that they say how whey protein isolate was
> shown effective with such-and-such results, but then they
> turn around and sell a different product, whey protein
> concentrate, because it's cheaper to make.

Sounds a bit like what's happening with creatine: all the
studies are done on creatine monohydrate, but companies come
out with their own "improvements" on creatine while citing the
results of studies done using creatine monohydrate.

> But I searched on google products (used to be Froogle), and
> the isolate variety only seems to be a little more expensive
> on average than the concentrate.

A lot more, actually: those couple of dollars difference add
up when you buy in bulk!

> Did they wise up? Are health food stores carrying whey
> protein isolate now too?

That's the other thing: I'm wary of health food stores. I
mean, all these things that healthy people have done
without...it just sounds so silly on the face of it!

Anyway, since I'm getting on in years here and ain't
responding like I used to be, I'm changing a lot of things,
including my diet. I will try protein powder for, I dunno, two
months and see if anything seems to happen. I just thought it
odd that there's talk of rip-off b.s. powders out there, but
no one ever actually names any names! Just as strange is how
Supplement Direct sells the absolute lowest priced protein by
far, but there's hardly any talk of them, either!

> David
>
> --
> Adamant Barbell Unyielding steel, built for
> abusewww.adamantbarbell.com

[Cubit]

What do they cut it with? Talcum powder?

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179280907.606543.296030@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company
> by a bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend,
> Dorian Yates Approved -- since these guys, presumably,
> wouldn't want to get a bad reputation for shoddy products.
> (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then? Or Bentacourt....)
>
> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that
> there are companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've
> never heard a name mentioned at all. So, which companies
> sell b.s. protein powders? Which brand's protein mix is not
> really protein, or not the advertised protein, etc.?
>
> How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about
> them, considering that they sell the absolute cheapest
> protein powder anywhere! From what little research I was
> able to conduct, they seem to be supplied -- despite their
> claims of manufacturing their own stuff -- by a company
> called Proteint in MN, which supposedly has the largest whey
> isolate facility in the whole world!
>
> And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement
> endorsements himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy Franco
> Columbu never went into this business (I understand they
> were partners in some construction company they had, which
> apparently afforded them all those hours at the gym and all
> those steroids!)....

[Dkw12002@Y]

On May 15, 9:01 pm, Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a company
> by a bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber Blend,
> Dorian Yates Approved -- since these guys, presumably,
> wouldn't want to get a bad reputation for shoddy products.
> (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then? Or Bentacourt....)
>
> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe that
> there are companies which sell rip-off protein powders, I've
> never heard a name mentioned at all. So, which companies
> sell b.s. protein powders? Which brand's protein mix is not
> really protein, or not the advertised protein, etc.?
>
> How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about
> them, considering that they sell the absolute cheapest
> protein powder anywhere! From what little research I was
> able to conduct, they seem to be supplied -- despite their
> claims of manufacturing their own stuff -- by a company
> called Proteint in MN, which supposedly has the largest whey
> isolate facility in the whole world!
>
> And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement
> endorsements himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy Franco
> Columbu never went into this business (I understand they
> were partners in some construction company they had, which
> apparently afforded them all those hours at the gym and all
> those steroids!)....

Better yet, don't buy protein supplements. If you want more
protein eat some nonfat egg whites at 3 gms per egg white.
This makes them low calorie as well. One body builder I know
just eats some canned tuna when he wants more protein. This
fixation with getting protein is not warranted by the
research. It probably won't hurt you but it is a waste of
money. Protein is EASY to get in food...all you could possibly
want, even for us vegetarians. dkw

[cleanskin]

All protein powders are crap. Stick with real food. Protein
powders will actually pull fat soluble vitamins right out of
you. AND all of them have some sort of synthetic sugar. Eat
liver! One of nature's wonder foods. Vince Gironda knew a lot
of stuff way before anybody else! Also, check out the folks at
http://www.westonaprice.org - really spot on for maximizing
your health!

Tom http://www.itspuresoap.com

On May 16, 11:51 am, Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 15, 10:51 pm, "Dave" <t...@test.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It's not much, and I don't have a source, but years ago I
> > read an article that criticized whey protein
> > manufacturers. The gist was that they say how whey protein
> > isolate was shown effective with such-and-such results,
> > but then they turn around and sell a different product,
> > whey protein concentrate, because it's cheaper to make.
>
> Sounds a bit like what's happening with creatine: all the
> studies are done on creatine monohydrate, but companies come
> out with their own "improvements" on creatine while citing
> the results of studies done using creatine monohydrate.
>
> > But I searched on google products (used to be Froogle),
> > and the isolate variety only seems to be a little more
> > expensive on average than the concentrate.
>
> A lot more, actually: those couple of dollars difference add
> up when you buy in bulk!
>
> > Did they wise up? Are health food stores carrying whey
> > protein isolate now too?
>
> That's the other thing: I'm wary of health food stores. I
> mean, all these things that healthy people have done
> without...it just sounds so silly on the face of it!
>
> Anyway, since I'm getting on in years here and ain't
> responding like I used to be, I'm changing a lot of things,
> including my diet. I will try protein powder for, I dunno,
> two months and see if anything seems to happen. I just
> thought it odd that there's talk of rip-off b.s. powders
> out there, but no one ever actually names any names! Just
> as strange is how Supplement Direct sells the absolute
> lowest priced protein by far, but there's hardly any talk
> of them, either!
>
> > David
>
> > --
> > Adamant Barbell Unyielding steel, built for
> > abusewww.adamantbarbell.com

[Will Brink]

In article <TKGdnaBSjMMw7NfbnZ2dnUVZ_oCmnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Dave" <test@test.com> wrote:

> It's not much, and I don't have a source, but years ago I
> read an article that criticized whey protein manufacturers.
> The gist was that they say how whey protein isolate was
> shown effective with such-and-such results, but then they
> turn around and sell a different product, whey protein
> concentrate, because it's cheaper to make.

Either the article is wrong or you are quoting it wrong.
Most of the studies that looked at the benefits of whey
used concentrates. The entire whey industry that was used
to sell whey, was based on concentrate studies. More recent
studies have used isolates. Everything you could need to
know about whey:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=25

>But I searched on google products (used to be Froogle), and
>the isolate variety only seems to be a little more expensive
>on average than the concentrate.
>
> Did they wise up? Are health food stores carrying whey
> protein isolate now too?

Of course, thought very few sell pure isolates as they are
expensive. A mix of isolate and concentrates is the norm.
Plenty of scams and BS in the supplement industry, including
the sellers of whey, but it has nothing to do with the
manufacturers of whey and everything to do with the companies
that sell it (hint, they are not one and the same thing).

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Jason Earl]

"dkw12002@yahoo.com" <dkw12002@yahoo.com> writes:

> On May 15, 9:01 pm, Prisoner at War
> <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a
>> company by a bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber
>> Blend, Dorian Yates Approved -- since these guys,
>> presumably, wouldn't want to get a bad reputation for
>> shoddy products. (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then? Or
>> Bentacourt....)
>>
>> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe
>> that there are companies which sell rip-off protein
>> powders, I've never heard a name mentioned at all. So,
>> which companies sell b.s. protein powders? Which brand's
>> protein mix is not really protein, or not the advertised
>> protein, etc.?
>>
>> How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about
>> them, considering that they sell the absolute cheapest
>> protein powder anywhere! From what little research I was
>> able to conduct, they seem to be supplied -- despite their
>> claims of manufacturing their own stuff -- by a company
>> called Proteint in MN, which supposedly has the largest
>> whey isolate facility in the whole world!
>>
>> And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement
>> endorsements himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy
>> Franco Columbu never went into this business (I understand
>> they were partners in some construction company they had,
>> which apparently afforded them all those hours at the gym
>> and all those steroids!)....
>
> Better yet, don't buy protein supplements. If you want more
> protein eat some nonfat egg whites at 3 gms per egg white.
> This makes them low calorie as well. One body builder I know
> just eats some canned tuna when he wants more protein.

While both egg whites and tuna are great (and inexpensive)
sources of protein it really is hard to beat whey protein if
you are supplementing your protein intake. First of all whey
protein is less expensive than egg whites and it doesn't have
the mercury issues that tuna does. You don't even have to look
around to get whey protein that is less than $0.01 per gram of
protein. Costco or WalMart both have what you need.

> This fixation with getting protein is not warranted by the
> research.

There has been plenty of recent research on protein
supplementation before and after exercise that shows that whey
protein is well worth its tiny price.

> It probably won't hurt you but it is a waste of money.
> Protein is EASY to get in food...all you could possibly
> want, even for us vegetarians. dkw

I agree that protein is fairly easy to get in real food
sources. However, whey protein is less expensive than almost
all other high quality protein sources, it is easy to take,
and most whey protein supplements even taste pretty good.

Whey protein *can* be a waste of money, but only if you insist
on some sort of designer brand.

Jason

[Will Brink]

In article
<1179341952.182954.307810@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
cleanskin@itspuresoap.com wrote:

> All protein powders are crap.

Then why does the research find so many benefits from whey
compared to other proteins? Effects on immunity, cancer, GSH,
and others. For example:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=26

>Stick with real food. Protein powders will actually pull fat
>soluble vitamins right out of you.

Cite.

> AND all of them have some sort of synthetic sugar.

Your'e an idiot.

> Eat liver! One of nature's wonder foods. Vince Gironda knew
> a lot of stuff way before anybody else!

Not really, but he sure thought he did.

>Also, check out the folks at http://www.westonaprice.org -
>really spot on for maximizing your health!

Actualy they are a bunch of nuts, but that's another issue.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Tom Anders]

On Wed, 16 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:

> On May 16, 9:36 am, Tom Anderson
> <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>> Rip-off products in general, yes, but protein powder? The
>> stuff is so cheap for the manufacturers to buy that it
>> doesn't seem worth it. I mean, they'd have to find
>> something cheaper to cut it with, and short of fly ash, i
>> can't think of anything!
>
> Yes, whey protein does seem cheap these days -- surprised so
> many college students are still living on ramen noodles! --
> but that only means the profits would be even greater for
> unscrupulous companies.

No it doesn't. It means exactly the opposite.

tom

--
Miscellaneous Terrorists: Ducks | Bird Flu | Avian flu | Jimbo
Wales | Backstreet Boys | The Al Queda Network | Tesco --
Uncyclopedia

[Tom Anders]

On Wed, 16 May 2007, JMW wrote:

> Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a
>>> company by a bodybuilder
>>
>> What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their
>> advice, because they're an idiot.
>>
>>> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe
>>> that there are companies which sell rip-off protein
>>> powders, I've never heard a name mentioned at all.
>>
>> Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded
>> bullshitters.
>
> True. But, then again, so is "Prisoner at War" aka
> "NYC XYZ."
>
> Of course, when most of MFW finally figures that out, he'll
> just come up with a new username and start all over again.

Shhh! I haven't had a good flamewar in ages.

tom

--
Miscellaneous Terrorists: Ducks | Bird Flu | Avian flu | Jimbo
Wales | Backstreet Boys | The Al Queda Network | Tesco --
Uncyclopedia

[cleanskin]

Let me try to go through this point by point with what I know
or what I think I know...

I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the foods
with the lowest profit margins and that spoil soon. These
foods have more nutrients per ounce. Whey protein is cheap as
hell and the source of it is from cows that aren't grass fed.
Not grass fed means lower CLA in the food source. I just saw a
post on one of the groups today citing this very fact. It was
a study done in Europe. I didn't read it thoroughly but got
the gist of it. Also, whey protein or any low fat protein
source will rob Vitamin A (real Vitamin A not beta-carotene)
from the body as it processes the protein. I don't have a
citation for this, but can look it up. Here is an article on
vit A and absorption of protein:
http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding.html

The article which you wrote doesn't have any citations. Please
provide these and we can discuss further. Whey can be made at
home far cheaper than buying a powder. Don't know how? Get raw
milk and make yogurt, then drain the liquid. This would have
to be the best whey ever! Second best, use regular milk. Third
best, buy yogurt.

Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar
or even regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily
endorse it.

Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot. Not all. And
I agree that he sure thought he knew it all.

Not sure why you think the westonaprice folks are nuts. Please
give me an example as opposed to a general attack on them.

Tom http://www.itspuresoap.com

On May 16, 4:26 pm, willbr...@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:
> In article
> <1179341952.182954.307...@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> cleans...@itspuresoap.com wrote:
> > All protein powders are crap.
>
> Then why does the research find so many benefits from whey
> compared to other proteins? Effects on immunity, cancer,
> GSH, and others. For example:
>
> http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=26
>
> >Stick with real food. Protein powders will actually pull
> >fat soluble vitamins right out of you.
>
> Cite.
>
> > AND all of them have some sort of synthetic sugar.
>
> Your'e an idiot.
>
> > Eat liver! One of nature's wonder foods. Vince Gironda
> > knew a lot of stuff way before anybody else!
>
> Not really, but he sure thought he did.
>
> >Also, check out the folks athttp://www.westonaprice.org-
> >really spot on for maximizing your health!
>
> Actualy they are a bunch of nuts, but that's another issue.
>
> --
> Will @www.BrinkZone.com
>
> "It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Bully]

In news:1179341578.638629.152330@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com,
dkw12002@yahoo.com <dkw12002@yahoo.com> typed:
> On May 15, 9:01 pm, Prisoner at War
> <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a
>> company by a bodybuilder -- Labrada, Dave Draper's Bomber
>> Blend, Dorian Yates Approved -- since these guys,
>> presumably, wouldn't want to get a bad reputation for
>> shoddy products. (How about Gaspari Nutrition, then? Or
>> Bentacourt....)
>>
>> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe
>> that there are companies which sell rip-off protein
>> powders, I've never heard a name mentioned at all. So,
>> which companies sell b.s. protein powders? Which brand's
>> protein mix is not really protein, or not the advertised
>> protein, etc.?
>>
>> How's Supplement Direct? Odd I find very little said about
>> them, considering that they sell the absolute cheapest
>> protein powder anywhere! From what little research I was
>> able to conduct, they seem to be supplied -- despite their
>> claims of manufacturing their own stuff -- by a company
>> called Proteint in MN, which supposedly has the largest
>> whey isolate facility in the whole world!
>>
>> And, also, has Schwarzenegger ever done supplement
>> endorsements himself? I'm surprised he and best buddy
>> Franco Columbu never went into this business (I understand
>> they were partners in some construction company they had,
>> which apparently afforded them all those hours at the gym
>> and all those steroids!)....
>
> Better yet, don't buy protein supplements. If you want more
> protein eat some nonfat egg whites at 3 gms per egg white.

Great, 60 egg whites a day then!

> This makes them low calorie as well. One body builder I know
> just eats some canned tuna when he wants more protein.

BODYBUILDER EATS CANNED TUNA !!!

> This fixation with getting protein is not warranted by the
> research.

It's not? It's been working for me! Maybe the research is
flawed eh?

> It probably won't hurt you but it is a waste of money.

Are you saying now NOT to eat the egg whites?

> Protein is EASY to get in food...all you could possibly
> want, even for us vegetarians. dkw

Really? How would you go about getting 180g per day then?

--
Bully Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an
optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir
Winston Churchill

[Bully]

In news:1179375052.854117.247520@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
cleanskin@itspuresoap.com <cleanskin@itspuresoap.com> typed:
> Let me try to go through this point by point with what I
> know or what I think I know...

Nail - head - hit!

[...]

>
> Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar
> or even regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily
> endorse it.

What about wholemeal sugar? Isn't that even better than
brown sugar?

>
> Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot.

You know this how?

[...]

--
Bully Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an
optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir
Winston Churchill

[cleanskin]

On May 17, 9:57 am, willbr...@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:
> In article
> <1179375052.854117.247...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> cleans...@itspuresoap.com wrote:
> > Let me try to go through this point by point with what I
> > know or what I think I know...
>
> > I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the
> > foods with the lowest profit margins and that spoil soon.
> > These foods have more nutrients per ounce.
>
> Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does
> how fast the food spoils.

Wow. So fresh foods are no different from canned, pulverized
or frozen foods? Or anything else done to it.

>
> >Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of it is from
> >cows that aren't grass fed.
>
> Some are some are not.

Which whey maker uses grass fed, pasture raised cows? I'd love
to know this.

> > Here is an article on vit A and absorption of protein:htt-
> > p://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding.html
>
> A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for non
> science types who are fooled by their BS and agendas. The
> article is also worthless.
>

So these are worthless citations? Livera, et al., "Regulation
and Perturbation of Testicular Functions by Vitamin A"
(Review), Reproduction (2002) 124, 173-180 Nayyar, et. al.,
"Alterations in binding characteristics of peripheral
benzodiazepine receptors in testes by vitamin A deficiency in
guinea pigs," Mol Cell Biochem. 2000 Aug;211(1-2):47-50
Bishop, et. al., "The effect of nutritional factors on sex
hormone levels in male twins," Genet Epidemiol.
1988;5(1):43-59. Zadik, et. al., "Vitamin A and iron
supplementation is as efficient as hormonal therapy in
constitutionally delayed children," Clin Endocrinol (Oxf).
2004 Jun; 60(6):682-7. McCormick, et. al., "Chemoprevention of
rat prostate carcinogenesis by 9-cis-retinoic acid," Cancer
Res. 1999 Feb 1;59(3):521-4. Furusho, et. al., "Tissue
specific-distribution and metabolism of vitamin A are affected
by dietary protein levels in rats," Int J Vitam Nutr Res.
1998;68(5):287-92 Narbonne, et. al., "Protein metabolism in
vitamin A deficient rats.
II. Protein synthesis in striated muscle," Ann Nutr Aliment.
1978;32(1):59-75. Stio, et. al., "Synergistic effect of
vitamin D derivatives and retinoids on C2C12 skeletal
muscle cells," IUBMB Life. 2002 Mar;53(3): 175-81

>
>
> > The article which you wrote doesn't have any citations.
> > Please provide these and we can discuss further.
>
> Formatting of the article is messed up for some reason. On
> another site:
>
> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag97/nov-report97.html
>
> Others can be seen here:
>
> Effects of one of the sub fractions found in whey not found
> in other proteins:
>
> http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=99
>
> Possible effects of whey on weight loss:
>
> http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=11
>
> Pretty much everything you need to know about whey:
>
> http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=25
>
> Those are just a sample BTW.

I agree that whey is fantastic and it is WHEY better in its
original form before it is pulverized and/or cooked.

>
> >Whey can be made at home far cheaper than buying a powder.
> >Don't know how? Get raw milk and make yogurt, then drain
> >the liquid. This would have to be the best whey ever!
> >Second best, use regular milk. Third best, buy yogurt.
>
> You're ignorant of the topic.

I am ignorant on the topic of whey? Have you ever made your
own whey? If a cow is pasture fed, on pesticide free grass,
and you milk it, culture it to become yogurt, drain the liquid
whey out.... are you telling me that WPI or hydrolyzed protein
is healthier than this? What about all of the other nutrients
in this liquid that haven't even been discovered yet? And that
perhaps make the whey work even better? Or whey maybe works
better directly in the yogurt? Or even better, perhaps it
works better in the raw milk?! Healthy whole foods are always
better than an isolated form stripped from their origin.

> > Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot. Not all.
> > And I agree that he sure thought he knew it all.
>
> I have no idea what you are talking about or who Vince is.

You don't know who Vince Gironda was? Have you studied the
history of bodybuilding and nutrition? Your ignorance of Vince
Gironda is revealing.

> > Not sure why you think the westonaprice folks are nuts.
> > Please give me an example as opposed to a general attack
> > on them.
>
> Their info is generally BS and that's easy enough to figure
> out by a simple read of their material.

Still waiting for an example. Have you read "Nutrition and
Physical Degeneration" by Dr. Price? This book is so
insightful that it would be an understatement to say
anything else. This is the basis of the
http://www.westonaprice.org folks.

Tom http://www.itspuresoap.com

[cleanskin]

Here is the study I couldn't find regarding CLA and eating
more organic foods for anyone interested

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=R-
etrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17349086&query_hl=1&itool-
=pubmed_docsum

Tom http://www.itspuresoap.com

On May 17, 3:43 pm, cleans...@itspuresoap.com wrote:
> On May 17, 9:57 am, willbr...@comcast.net (Will Brink)
> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <1179375052.854117.247...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > cleans...@itspuresoap.com wrote:
> > > Let me try to go through this point by point with what I
> > > know or what I think I know...
>
> > > I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the
> > > foods with the lowest profit margins and that spoil
> > > soon. These foods have more nutrients per ounce.
>
> > Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does
> > how fast the food spoils.
>
> Wow. So fresh foods are no different from canned, pulverized
> or frozen foods? Or anything else done to it.
>
>
>
> > >Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of it is
> > >from cows that aren't grass fed.
>
> > Some are some are not.
>
> Which whey maker uses grass fed, pasture raised cows? I'd
> love to know this.
>
> > > Here is an article on vit A and absorption of protein:h-
> > > ttp://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding.html
>
> > A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for
> > non science types who are fooled by their BS and agendas.
> > The article is also worthless.
>
> So these are worthless citations? Livera, et al.,
> "Regulation and Perturbation of Testicular Functions by
> Vitamin A" (Review), Reproduction (2002) 124, 173-180
> Nayyar, et. al., "Alterations in binding characteristics of
> peripheral benzodiazepine receptors in testes by vitamin A
> deficiency in guinea pigs," Mol Cell Biochem. 2000
> Aug;211(1-2):47-50 Bishop, et. al., "The effect of
> nutritional factors on sex hormone levels in male twins,"
> Genet Epidemiol. 1988;5(1):43-59. Zadik, et. al., "Vitamin A
> and iron supplementation is as efficient as hormonal therapy
> in constitutionally delayed children," Clin Endocrinol
> (Oxf). 2004 Jun; 60(6):682-7. McCormick, et. al.,
> "Chemoprevention of rat prostate carcinogenesis by
> 9-cis-retinoic acid," Cancer Res. 1999 Feb 1;59(3):521-4.
> Furusho, et. al., "Tissue specific-distribution and
> metabolism of vitamin A are affected by dietary protein
> levels in rats," Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1998;68(5):287-92
> Narbonne, et. al., "Protein metabolism in vitamin A
> deficient rats.
> II. Protein synthesis in striated muscle," Ann Nutr Aliment.
> 1978;32(1):59-75. Stio, et. al., "Synergistic effect of
> vitamin D derivatives and retinoids on C2C12 skeletal
> muscle cells," IUBMB Life. 2002 Mar;53(3): 175-81
>
>
>
>
>
> > > The article which you wrote doesn't have any citations.
> > > Please provide these and we can discuss further.
>
> > Formatting of the article is messed up for some reason. On
> > another site:
>
> >http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag97/nov-report97.html
>
> > Others can be seen here:
>
> > Effects of one of the sub fractions found in whey not
> > found in other proteins:
>
> >http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=99
>
> > Possible effects of whey on weight loss:
>
> >http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=11
>
> > Pretty much everything you need to know about whey:
>
> >http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=25
>
> > Those are just a sample BTW.
>
> I agree that whey is fantastic and it is WHEY better in its
> original form before it is pulverized and/or cooked.
>
>
>
> > >Whey can be made at home far cheaper than buying a
> > >powder. Don't know how? Get raw milk and make yogurt,
> > >then drain the liquid. This would have to be the best
> > >whey ever! Second best, use regular milk. Third best, buy
> > >yogurt.
>
> > You're ignorant of the topic.
>
> I am ignorant on the topic of whey? Have you ever made your
> own whey? If a cow is pasture fed, on pesticide free grass,
> and you milk it, culture it to become yogurt, drain the
> liquid whey out.... are you telling me that WPI or
> hydrolyzed protein is healthier than this? What about all of
> the other nutrients in this liquid that haven't even been
> discovered yet? And that perhaps make the whey work even
> better? Or whey maybe works better directly in the yogurt?
> Or even better, perhaps it works better in the raw milk?!
> Healthy whole foods are always better than an isolated form
> stripped from their origin.
>
> > > Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot. Not
> > > all. And I agree that he sure thought he knew it all.
>
> > I have no idea what you are talking about or who Vince is.
>
> You don't know who Vince Gironda was? Have you studied the
> history of bodybuilding and nutrition? Your ignorance of
> Vince Gironda is revealing.
>
> > > Not sure why you think the westonaprice folks are nuts.
> > > Please give me an example as opposed to a general attack
> > > on them.
>
> > Their info is generally BS and that's easy enough to
> > figure out by a simple read of their material.
>
> Still waiting for an example. Have you read "Nutrition and
> Physical Degeneration" by Dr. Price? This book is so
> insightful that it would be an understatement to say
> anything else. This is the basis of
> thehttp://www.westonaprice.orgfolks.
>
> Tomhttp://www.itspuresoap.com

[cleanskin]

Okay so isolates or concentrates were used. Obviously the
nutrient density is higher. But then again you've probably
never heard of the brix of food either. Again, which whey
makers use grass fed, pesticide free, hormone free cows?
I'd love to know this. Vitamin A deficiency from eating
low fat proteins is not a wise move for your health. Good
luck! I'm done.

Tom http://www.itspuresoap.com

On May 17, 5:22 pm, willbr...@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:
> In article
> <1179431023.565928.104...@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> cleans...@itspuresoap.com wrote:
> > On May 17, 9:57 am, willbr...@comcast.net (Will Brink)
> > wrote:
> > > In article <1179375052.854117.247...@n59g2000hsh.google-
> > > groups.com>,
>
> > > cleans...@itspuresoap.com wrote:
> > > > Let me try to go through this point by point with what
> > > > I know or what I think I know...
>
> > > > I generally define the best way of eating as to eat
> > > > the foods with the lowest profit margins and that
> > > > spoil soon. These foods have more nutrients per ounce.
>
> > > Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor
> > > does how fast the food spoils.
>
> > Wow.
>
> For you, I guess this basic info leads to a "wow"
> conclusion.
>
> >So fresh foods are no different from canned, pulverized or
> >frozen foods? Or anything else done to it.
>
> For nutrient density, no. Do you even understand what
> nutrient density is? It appears you don't.
>
>
>
> > > >Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of it is
> > > >from cows that aren't grass fed.
>
> > > Some are some are not.
>
> > Which whey maker uses grass fed, pasture raised cows? I'd
> > love to know this.
>
> As you don't understand even basic concepts like nutrient
> density, I fail to see how the info will do you any good.
>
>
>
> > > > Here is an article on vit A and absorption of protein-
> > > > :http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding-
> > > > .html
>
> > > A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for
> > > non science types who are fooled by their BS and
> > > agendas. The article is also worthless.
>
> > So these are worthless citations?
>
> In the context of this thread and conversation,Yup.
>
> > I agree that whey is fantastic and it is WHEY better in
> > its original form before it is pulverized and/or cooked.
>
> Again, you dont know the data or the science. All the
> studies cited in those aticles are using concentrates or
> isolates processed.
>
>
>
> > > You're ignorant of the topic.
>
> > I am ignorant on the topic of whey?
>
> Yes, every comment you have made proves that.
>
> All natural-Feel-good-how-you-make yogurt-goofyness snipped.
>
> Now move along.
>
> --
> Will @www.BrinkZone.com
>
> "It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Will Brink]

In article
<1179375052.854117.247520@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
cleanskin@itspuresoap.com wrote:

> Let me try to go through this point by point with what I
> know or what I think I know...
>
> I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the
> foods with the lowest profit margins and that spoil soon.
> These foods have more nutrients per ounce.

Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does how
fast the food spoils.

>Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of it is from
>cows that aren't grass fed.

Some are some are not.

>Not grass fed means lower CLA in the food source.

Irrelevant and of no consequence to the topic at hand. You are
rambling this off in some attempt to make yourself appear
educated on the topic when you clearly are not.

> I just saw a post on one of the groups today citing this
> very fact.

You read it on another news group. Really showed me you did...

>It was a study done in Europe. I didn't read it thoroughly
>but got the gist of it. Also, whey protein or any low fat
>protein source will rob Vitamin A (real Vitamin A not
>beta-carotene) from the body as it processes the protein. I
>don't have a citation for this, but can look it up.

Then do so, as it's total BS.

> Here is an article on vit A and absorption of protein:
> http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding.html

A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for non
science types who are fooled by their BS and agendas. The
article is also worthless.

>
> The article which you wrote doesn't have any citations.
> Please provide these and we can discuss further.

Formatting of the article is messed up for some reason. On
another site:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag97/nov-report97.html

Others can be seen here:

Effects of one of the sub fractions found in whey not found in
other proteins:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=99

Possible effects of whey on weight loss:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=11

Pretty much everything you need to know about whey:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledetails.php?acatid=3&aid=25

Those are just a sample BTW.

>Whey can be made at home far cheaper than buying a powder.
>Don't know how? Get raw milk and make yogurt, then drain the
>liquid. This would have to be the best whey ever! Second
>best, use regular milk. Third best, buy yogurt.

You're ignorant of the topic.

>
> Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar
> or even regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily
> endorse it.

I dont care what you endorse. There are many non flavored
whey products on the market BTW. Your ignorance of whey is
not my problem.

> Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot. Not all.
> And I agree that he sure thought he knew it all.

I have no idea what you are talking about or who Vince is.

>
> Not sure why you think the westonaprice folks are nuts.
> Please give me an example as opposed to a general attack
> on them.

Their info is generally BS and that's easy enough to figure
out by a simple read of their material.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Dave]

<cleanskin@itspuresoap.com> wrote in message
news:1179375052.854117.247520@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar
> or even regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily
> endorse it.

The brown sugar I've seen is just white sugar + molasses. Is
there something else?

But I do support you in a lot of what you're saying. We just
can't possibly try to create a good diet by isolating
compounds in powder form and putting together a diet with
them. It's like pretending we know all there is to know about
how the body processes food (I certainly don't, and I don't
believe even the best nutritionist out there does), and that
we can do better than nature. People make this mistake in all
areas of science by becoming too specialized in one subject
and ignoring the context. But I do believe there's value in
whey and other supplements as long as they're only taken as
supplements in situations where it may be appropriate, making
up only a minor portion of our daily intake. There's just so
many things in real food that we're missing out on if we rely
heavily on calorie-rich supplements. We could certainly
consume whey as a source of protein, but that's not nutrition,
not healthy, and someone consuming 1000 calories a day in whey
is missing out on the nutrition he'd be getting by eating real
foods to make up his daily protein intake.

The real problem, as I see it, is consumers buy lots and lots
of whey and take it like a magic formula that rationalizes an
otherwise crappy diet.

David

--
Adamant Barbell Unyielding steel, built for abuse
www.adamantbarbell.com

[Omelet]

In article <qKWdnePv260cC9HbnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Dave" <test@test.com> wrote:

> <cleanskin@itspuresoap.com> wrote in message news:117937505-
> 2.854117.247520@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> > Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown
> > sugar or even regular sugar for sweetening and I'll
> > happily endorse it.
>
> The brown sugar I've seen is just white sugar + molasses. Is
> there something else?

Change that to raw or turbinado sugar and yes, there is a
difference.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

[Will Brink]

In article
<1179431023.565928.104700@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
cleanskin@itspuresoap.com wrote:

> On May 17, 9:57 am, willbr...@comcast.net (Will Brink)
> wrote:
> > In article
> > <1179375052.854117.247...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > cleans...@itspuresoap.com wrote:
> > > Let me try to go through this point by point with what I
> > > know or what I think I know...
> >
> > > I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the
> > > foods with the lowest profit margins and that spoil
> > > soon. These foods have more nutrients per ounce.
> >
> > Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does
> > how fast the food spoils.
>
> Wow.

For you, I guess this basic info leads to a "wow" conclusion.

>So fresh foods are no different from canned, pulverized or
>frozen foods? Or anything else done to it.

For nutrient density, no. Do you even understand what nutrient
density is? It appears you don't.

>
> >
> > >Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of it is
> > >from cows that aren't grass fed.
> >
> > Some are some are not.
>
> Which whey maker uses grass fed, pasture raised cows? I'd
> love to know this.

As you don't understand even basic concepts like nutrient
density, I fail to see how the info will do you any good.

>
>
> > > Here is an article on vit A and absorption of protein:h-
> > > ttp://www.westonaprice.org/men/vitaminabodybuilding.html
> >
> > A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for
> > non science types who are fooled by their BS and agendas.
> > The article is also worthless.
> >
>
> So these are worthless citations?

In the context of this thread and conversation,Yup.

> I agree that whey is fantastic and it is WHEY better in its
> original form before it is pulverized and/or cooked.

Again, you dont know the data or the science. All the studies
cited in those aticles are using concentrates or isolates
processed.

> >
> > You're ignorant of the topic.
>
> I am ignorant on the topic of whey?

Yes, every comment you have made proves that.

All natural-Feel-good-how-you-make yogurt-goofyness snipped.

Now move along.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Will Brink]

In article
<1179434668.992284.129270@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
cleanskin@itspuresoap.com wrote:

> Here is the study I couldn't find regarding CLA and eating
> more organic foods for anyone interested

Did anyone claim organic foods were bad in this thread or do
you always just throw out random stuff unrlated to the topic
of the thread?

> > > > Here is an article on vit A and absorption

No, it is not. Your reading skills are worse than your
science. Show me in the article where it talks about
ABSORPTION of vitamin A.

> > So these are worthless citations?

From the article:

"athletes and body builders may be able to achieve similar
results from their training by taking high-vitamin cod liver
oil and eating foods rich in vitamin A on a regular basis as
others receive from the common practice of supplementing with
testosterone precursors."

That's very funny! Vitamin A is = to anabolic steroids.

> > Still waiting for an example.

I just gave you one. If they allow that type of BS to be
published on their site...they are well known for fabricating
things and or simply getting the science wrong to support
their agenda's

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Prisoner A]

On May 16, 2:59 pm, cleans...@itspuresoap.com wrote:
> All protein powders are crap. Stick with real food. Protein
> powders will actually pull fat soluble vitamins right out of
> you. AND all of them have some sort of synthetic sugar. Eat
> liver! One of nature's wonder foods. Vince Gironda knew a
> lot of stuff way before anybody else! Also, check out the
> folks athttp://www.westonaprice.org- really spot on for
> maximizing your health!
>
> Tomhttp://www.itspuresoap.com

Vince Gironda, eh? Interesting...he was one of them
Golden-Age-of- Bodybuilding icons, I understand...now you have
me wondering about them old-timers!

It's funny you claim whey protein powders to be crap...this
was the very Spiel or sales pitch behind a Dorian Yates
Approved protein supplement ad in the muscle magazines! It was
the one titled "WHAT
(T)WHEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW"....

[Prisoner A]

On May 17, 1:53 pm, "Dave" <t...@test.com> wrote:
> <cleans...@itspuresoap.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179375052.854117.247520@n59g2000hsh.googlegroup-
> s.com...
>
> > Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown
> > sugar or even regular sugar for sweetening and I'll
> > happily endorse it.
>
> The brown sugar I've seen is just white sugar + molasses. Is
> there something else?
>
> But I do support you in a lot of what you're saying. We just
> can't possibly try to create a good diet by isolating
> compounds in powder form and putting together a diet with
> them. It's like pretending we know all there is to know
> about how the body processes food (I certainly don't, and I
> don't believe even the best nutritionist out there does),
> and that we can do better than nature. People make this
> mistake in all areas of science by becoming too specialized
> in one subject and ignoring the context. But I do believe
> there's value in whey and other supplements as long as
> they're only taken as supplements in situations where it may
> be appropriate, making up only a minor portion of our daily
> intake. There's just so many things in real food that we're
> missing out on if we rely heavily on calorie-rich
> supplements. We could certainly consume whey as a source of
> protein, but that's not nutrition, not healthy, and someone
> consuming 1000 calories a day in whey is missing out on the
> nutrition he'd be getting by eating real foods to make up
> his daily protein intake.
>
> The real problem, as I see it, is consumers buy lots and
> lots of whey and take it like a magic formula that
> rationalizes an otherwise crappy diet.
>
> David
>
> --
> Adamant Barbell Unyielding steel, built for
> abusewww.adamantbarbell.com

Well, I'm going to try some protein powder and see if it helps
any. I never saw the point to them, but I guess it's like
trying a new exercise, just something to do to see if it's any
"fun" -- for example, I've only started doing squats and
deadlifts last week! I especially enjoy deadlifts! They used
to feel awkward to me -- and I still have to really mind my
back and all -- but I so enjoy the sheer power that's
involved! The bench press is nothing compared to the deadlift!
The deadlift's like a cardio exercise, almost! The squat's
okay, fun for the novelty factor. Funny thing, I think the
deadlift's harder, though some folks seem to think the squat's
the "King of Exercises."

Anyway, the more I learn about supplementation, the more I
find myself looking at good ol' fashioned whole foods again! I
guess I'm bored and trying protein and creatine powders will
be an interesting experiment -- but I've gained new-found
respect for home cookin'!

[Prisoner A]

On May 16, 6:48 pm, JMW
<jmwilli...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
> Tom Anderson <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
> >On Wed, 15 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:
>
> >> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a
> >> company by a bodybuilder
>
> >What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their
> >advice, because they're an idiot.
>
> >> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe
> >> that there are companies which sell rip-off protein
> >> powders, I've never heard a name mentioned at all.
>
> >Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded
> >bullshitters.
>
> True. But, then again, so is "Prisoner at War" aka
> "NYC XYZ."
>
> Of course, when most of MFW finally figures that out, he'll
> just come up with a new username and start all over again.

JMW, you're such a sad little circus strongman, aren't you!

I change my e-mail account periodically because they
eventually get inundated with spam from usenet posting. Do you
really think I give a fuck whether MFW blowhards like you pay
me any mind?

As a matter of fact, it's funny how I ignore you and you
continue to try to chat me up! I guess your three cats just
don't know you from a pair of pink spandex shorts, eh?

Here's a hint, gomer: go to a coed gym.

[Prisoner A]

On May 16, 2:01 pm, "Cubit" <n...@not.not> wrote:
> What do they cut it with? Talcum powder?

Well, I'm asking, amn't I?

Like how, for example, many glucosamine supplements were found
to have contained less than the amount claimed on the label --
Lord knows what filler they could have used!

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/3956.html

[Prisoner A]

On May 16, 2:52 pm, "dkw12...@yahoo.com"
<dkw12...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Better yet, don't buy protein supplements. If you want more
> protein eat some nonfat egg whites at 3 gms per egg white.
> This makes them low calorie as well. One body builder I know
> just eats some canned tuna when he wants more protein. This
> fixation with getting protein is not warranted by the
> research. It probably won't hurt you but it is a waste of
> money. Protein is EASY to get in food...all you could
> possibly want, even for us vegetarians. dkw

True: Bill Pearl and Albert Beckles were vegetarian
bodybuilders who were champs!

I think I'll give it a shot, just for fun...I used to dismiss
them, but suddenly they've become new toys for me...I'm going
to play with protein and creatine powders this summer and see
what happens. But it's funny how the more I try to read up
about supplements the more I come back to whole foods! Nothing
beats the original, eh. =)

[Prisoner A]

On May 16, 9:07 pm, Tom Anderson <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:
>
>
> > Yes, whey protein does seem cheap these days -- surprised
> > so many college students are still living on ramen
> > noodles! -- but that only means the profits would be even
> > greater for unscrupulous companies.
>
> No it doesn't. It means exactly the opposite.

I think you're assuming that they'd get sued and lose
money. But good luck trying to do that on your own.
Besides, a fly-by-night operation wouldn't care: it'd
simply declare bankruptcy, while the principals go off and
start up another venture.

Anyway, do they exist? Are there protein powders which aren't
really protein, or somehow otherwise rip-offs? For example,
33% of glucosamine supps had been found to contain less than
the amount claimed on the labels:
http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/3956.html.

> tom
>
> --
> Miscellaneous Terrorists: Ducks | Bird Flu | Avian flu |
> Jimbo Wales | Backstreet Boys | The Al Queda Network | Tesco
> -- Uncyclopedia

[Prisoner A]

On May 16, 9:08 pm, Tom Anderson <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>
> Shhh! I haven't had a good flamewar in ages.

Oh, is that all he wanted. Well, that socially-challenged
retard could've simply asked. Okay, here's some fodder for all
y'all's vitriol:

What's with the homosexual look in bodybuilding?? I swear this
sport is fucking weird! I open up muscle mags and I see guys
wearing striped tights with earrings and shit...one whiteboy,
with his black girlfriend spotting him, had on a pink tank top
that said "Marines" in flourescent yellow! WTF is up with
that?!?! And today I just got my copy of "Stay Hungry" with
Schwarzenegger and in the original theatrical trailer a girl
goes "people in your sport are, you know..." and Arnold
finishes her sentence with "you mean homosexual?"

> tom
>
> --
> Miscellaneous Terrorists: Ducks | Bird Flu | Avian flu |
> Jimbo Wales | Backstreet Boys | The Al Queda Network | Tesco
> -- Uncyclopedia

[boogaoul]

So what is natural bodybuilding, and how can I use its
principles to build muscle fast?

Well, natural bodybuilding is a way to build muscle and get a
great body without the use of drugs or substances.

But there are important steps to take so that you get real
results with your training, not just small results.

In this article, let's look at these principles of how to
build muscle naturally.

Natural Bodybuilding Tip Number 1

The safest and healthiest way to build muscle tissue is
through using a bodybuilding workout that actually works.

That is, one that uses sets and supersets in such a way that
properly stimulates muscle and gets a real 'pump' instead of
one that does not do this.

By using a technique and program that stimulates the muscle
group about once every 5-7 days, you'll avoid overtraining.

But the exercises has to be ones that are effective, not too
isolating.

You will see the difference in no time, and begin to feel the
great effects that come from it as well, when you use a
bodybuilding workout routine that works.

Natural Bodybuilding Tip Number 2

Proper nutrition is needed to building muscle and not
gaining fat.

Muscle requires more calories and protein to maintain its
current size. A diet rich in protein can help to achieve this.

The carbs? Use low GI carbs.

The oils? Use the helahy ones such as fish oil and olive oil.
Olive oil (use extra virgin as this is where the antioxidants
are) as it (a monounsaturated oil) stimulates natural
testosterone production, and fish oil is good as a natural
anti-inflammatory for repair, and to allow fat loss, amongst
all its other benefits such as on the heart.

And proteins: Use lean sources of protein such as fish,
chicken, yoghurt, egg.

Depending on your body type, this may not be a huge increase
in nutrients, but is whatever your body needs to maintain more
muscle, but not so excessive that you start to gain fat.

Natural Bodybuilding Tip Number 3

As an option, you can take some natural supplements such as
whey protein powder, creatine or glutamine, or a
combination of these.

With a very good body building plan you won't need to
worry too much about these supplements, they're only a bit
of a boost.

The main emphasis here about natural bodybuilding is that you
can gain muscle naturally with naturally occuring nutrients,
without the need for steroids.

Because your gains are based on sound principles of a good
workout and a good diet, then it's sustainable and you get all
the benefits.

So there you have it.

These are the solid tips to building muscle the natural way,
and to do it in a sustainable way.

The main thing is to use a workout that works, as this is the
basis for muscle growth, stimulation of metabolism to burn
fat, and makes the whole program work.

---------------------------------------------------------
----------
Abdu Galama is a personal coach from France. Do you use this 7
strategies to lose fat ? Visit my googlepages for free :
http://diet.cardio.googlepages.com

[Jmw]

Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Here's a hint, gomer: go to a coed gym.

Are you referring to the middle school gym classes where you
stalk 14-year-old latinas, chomo?

[Hard Bop D]

Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179453795.695340.321770@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On May 16, 6:48 pm, JMW
> <jmwilli...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>> Tom Anderson <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 15 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:
>>
>> >> Okay, the advice on protein powders is to buy from a
>> >> company by a bodybuilder
>>
>> >What? Whose advice? Whoever it is, stop taking their
>> >advice, because they're an idiot.
>>
>> >> But while folks on bodybuilding fora and sites believe
>> >> that there are companies which sell rip-off protein
>> >> powders, I've never heard a name mentioned at all.
>>
>> >Possibly because guys on fora are mostly retarded
>> >bullshitters.
>>
>> True. But, then again, so is "Prisoner at War" aka
>> "NYC XYZ."
>>
>> Of course, when most of MFW finally figures that out, he'll
>> just come up with a new username and start all over again.
>
>
> JMW, you're such a sad little circus strongman, aren't you!
>
> I change my e-mail account periodically because they
> eventually get inundated with spam from usenet posting. Do
> you really think I give a fuck whether MFW blowhards like
> you pay me any mind?
>
> As a matter of fact, it's funny how I ignore you and you
> continue to try to chat me up! I guess your three cats just
> don't know you from a pair of pink spandex shorts, eh?
>
> Here's a hint, gomer: go to a coed gym.
>

Why don't you get some new material? We all know that you were
never in the military and that you have the IQ of gnat. Making
homophobic comments just further cements the fact that you are
a dolt and a bigot.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

[Hard Bop D]

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179456880.409805.153980@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 16, 9:08 pm, Tom Anderson
> <t...@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Shhh! I haven't had a good flamewar in ages.
>
> Oh, is that all he wanted. Well, that socially-challenged
> retard could've simply asked. Okay, here's some fodder for
> all y'all's vitriol:
>
> What's with the homosexual look in bodybuilding?? I swear
> this sport is fucking weird! I open up muscle mags and I see
> guys wearing striped tights with earrings and shit...one
> whiteboy, with his black girlfriend spotting him, had on a
> pink tank top that said "Marines" in flourescent yellow! WTF
> is up with that?!?! And today I just got my copy of "Stay
> Hungry" with Schwarzenegger and in the original theatrical
> trailer a girl goes "people in your sport are, you know..."
> and Arnold finishes her sentence with "you mean homosexual?"
>

You see a "homosexual" look because you are a bigoted
homophobe who has real issues with your own sexuality. No one
else has a problem with the magazines. Asshole.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

[Hard Bop D]

Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179492033.908581.247090@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> LOL, he's hung up on my popularity with teenage girls, and
> you're hung up over my disdain for homosexuality??
>
> You folks really need to get a life! Talk about getting new
> material, Robert Shuh! BTW, were your ancestors so stupid as
> to have forgotten the proper spelling of shoe in German??
>
> Dis-missed!

You really are a moron. The fact is that you are a bigot and
proud of it. I am willing to bet that you have all sorts of
negative things to say about blacks too, but you are too
much of a pussy to mention that. I suggest you grow up and
grow some balls. Bottom line, you don't have the balls nor
integrity to post your name. BTW, you misspelled my name
too. Dolt.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

[Gmcarter]

On 18 May 2007 05:40:33 -0700, Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>LOL, he's hung up on my popularity with teenage girls, and
>you're hung up over my disdain for homosexuality??

Gay people have just been the new whipping boy since psychotic
fundamentalists and other right wing sick shits can't say
"nigger" or "kike" and have lynchings any more.

It's the same kind of despicable, vicious hate. The kind that
exists in the minds of fundamentalists who become terrorists.

George M. Carter

[Will Brink]

In article <lcjt431045ehimqm8cmhbausnq87qs74m4@4ax.com>,
noway@nowherenospam.com wrote:

> On 18 May 2007 05:40:33 -0700, Prisoner at War
> <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >LOL, he's hung up on my popularity with teenage girls, and
> >you're hung up over my disdain for homosexuality??
>
> Gay people have just been the new

New? Pick up a history book. Not since the time of the Romans
or Greeks have gay people been anything but whipping boys for
the small minded, homo phobic, fundamentalist types. Probably
better for them now than it has been in a few thousand years,
but they still have a long way to go for equal rights under
the law and treated as human beings. In my state they can get
married, which will make for interesting politics come next
voting cycle.

> whipping boy since psychotic fundamentalists and other right
> wing sick shits can't say "nigger" or "kike" and have
> lynchings any more.
>
> It's the same kind of despicable, vicious hate. The kind
> that exists in the minds of fundamentalists who become
> terrorists.
>
> George M. Carter

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Steve The]

> Gay people have just been the new whipping boy since
> psychotic fundamentalists and other right wing sick shits
> can't say "nigger" or "kike" and have lynchings any more.

Get a sense of history. Gay people have been the 'whipping
boy' for several millennia.

--
I have nothing at all against well-trained, knowledgeable
Indian technical support. I hope to speak to one before I
retire. --JW, ASR

[Prisoner A]

Actually, they've been the whipping post for many societies
throughout history -- but don't let that stop you from your
gay lobby agenda.

I'm in NYC, and my experience of gays is that a great many of
them act like our obnoxious, touchy, hyperventilating MFW
hallway monitors: cranky, whiny, moody, bored and boring,
preachy self-righteous in-yo- face dipshits.

On May 19, 6:13 am, GMCarter <f...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Gay people have just been the new whipping boy since
> psychotic fundamentalists and other right wing sick shits
> can't say "nigger" or "kike" and have lynchings any more.
>
> It's the same kind of despicable, vicious hate. The kind
> that exists in the minds of fundamentalists who become
> terrorists.
>
> George M. Carter

[Prisoner A]

What's that, the Japanese porn you keep for company when Asian
girls pretend they don't speak English when you introduce
yourself??

Actually, another great thing about being Asian is that most
of us don't have to worry about fat.

Must really eat you up that we don't have hairy backs and yet
we don't go bald, either!

On May 18, 8:06 pm, JMW
<jmwilli...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>
>
> Must be the "chubby Asian dweeb" thing, like Hiro Nakamura
> in "Heroes."

[Prisoner A]

Hey, Faggot!

Why don't you admit that you're just a misogynistic faggot
jealous of women, so insecure that you need to imagine folks
are "afraid" of your faggotry when in fact they're just plain
disgusted by it?

You silly swishy faggots are always foaming at the mouth about
people being afraid of you or people being closet fags. Is
there anything else you have going for you in life???

On May 19, 10:39 pm, "Hard Bop Drums"
<nos...@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
>
>
> Listen pussy, Why don't you just admit that you are a
> homophobic bigot? The fact that you could even post such a
> ludicrous sweeping generalization about ANY group shows that
> you are a bigot and a moron. The fact that you have to claim
> that anyone who is not a bigoted homophobic moron is in fact
> gay, just shows what a mouth breathing Neanderthal you
> really are.
>
> --
> Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above
> the herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called
> evil; and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming
> mentality, the mediocrity of desires attains moral
> designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>
> http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
>
> "

[Hard Bop D]

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179621796.616678.226890@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Actually, they've been the whipping post for many societies
> throughout history -- but don't let that stop you from your
> gay lobby agenda.
>
> I'm in NYC, and my experience of gays is that a great many
> of them act like our obnoxious, touchy, hyperventilating MFW
> hallway monitors: cranky, whiny, moody, bored and boring,
> preachy self-righteous in-yo- face dipshits.

Listen pussy, Why don't you just admit that you are a
homophobic bigot? The fact that you could even post such a
ludicrous sweeping generalization about ANY group shows that
you are a bigot and a moron. The fact that you have to claim
that anyone who is not a bigoted homophobic moron is in fact
gay, just shows what a mouth breathing Neanderthal you
really are.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"

[Hard Bop D]

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179623264.371291.244890@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> What's that, the Japanese porn you keep for company when
> Asian girls pretend they don't speak English when you
> introduce yourself??
>
> Actually, another great thing about being Asian is that most
> of us don't have to worry about fat.
>
> Must really eat you up that we don't have hairy backs and
> yet we don't go bald, either!

Are you really this fucking ignorant to not see how disgusting
your bigotry is? Are you capable of carrying on a discussion
that is not filled with either homophobic or other bigoted
comments? Your comments here about Asians are just as
disgusting. You really are a reprehensible little fuck.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"

[Gmcarter]

On Sat, 19 May 2007 09:39:27 -0400, Steve the Geek
<zvqavtugpbzc@pbzpnfg.arg> wrote:

>
>> Gay people have just been the new whipping boy since
>> psychotic fundamentalists and other right wing sick shits
>> can't say "nigger" or "kike" and have lynchings any more.
>
>Get a sense of history. Gay people have been the 'whipping
>boy' for several millennia.

To you and Will Brink I have to laugh--in a good way. Thanks.
I wasn't suggesting that queer folk have not in many cultures
and times throughout history been treated like crap. Just that
the current cultural perversions of U.S. culture, particularly
in the forms of white supremacy and christian fundamentalism
in its worst aspects, have turned to us Queer folk. And it is
more or less sanctioned in the media and elsewhere.

I am a Queer, so it's not merely academic.

George M. Carter

[Gmcarter]

On 19 May 2007 22:01:32 -0700, Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Hey, Faggot!

Hey. I'm in New York. I'm a "faggot." Want to meet for a
coffee?

[Ralph]

"Prisoner at War" <>> Why don't you admit that you're just a
misogynistic faggot jealous of women, so insecure that you
need to imagine folks are "afraid" of your
> faggotry when in fact they're just plain disgusted by it?
>
Bob is a hard-core homo, and he was one of the characters in
the book called Muscle, by Sam Fussell who wrote about the guy
who won the contest by giving a blowjob one of the judges in
the dressing room.

[Will Brink]

In article <ij6053toaigs44f26oota95r246cfuevv2@4ax.com>,
noway@nowherenospam.com wrote:

> On Sat, 19 May 2007 09:39:27 -0400, Steve the Geek
> <zvqavtugpbzc@pbzpnfg.arg> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Gay people have just been the new whipping boy since
> >> psychotic fundamentalists and other right wing sick shits
> >> can't say "nigger" or "kike" and have lynchings any more.
> >
> >Get a sense of history. Gay people have been the 'whipping
> >boy' for several millennia.
>
> To you and Will Brink I have to laugh--in a good way.
> Thanks. I wasn't suggesting that queer folk have not in many
> cultures and times throughout history been treated like
> crap. Just that the current cultural perversions of U.S.
> culture, particularly in the forms of white supremacy and
> christian fundamentalism in its worst aspects, have turned
> to us Queer folk. And it is more or less sanctioned in the
> media and elsewhere.

I agree with the former, not so sure I agree with the latter.
I don't think it's sanctioned in the media per se.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Hard Bop D]

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179637292.814843.260050@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hey, Faggot!
>
> Why don't you admit that you're just a misogynistic faggot
> jealous of women, so insecure that you need to imagine folks
> are "afraid" of your faggotry when in fact they're just
> plain disgusted by it?
>
> You silly swishy faggots are always foaming at the mouth
> about people being afraid of you or people being closet
> fags. Is there anything else you have going for you in
> life??? .

Grow up little man. Tell me, what is it like to go through
life as a coward?

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

[Hard Bop D]

Don't worry. Our little anonymous troll will never do anything
that will expose his lack of life to anyone other than himself
and his computer. Anyone who is this proud of their bigotry
will always wear a mask.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3o6053tu8vutcc40omo8o3ecno5q2io3tf@4ax.com...
> On 19 May 2007 22:01:32 -0700, Prisoner at War
> <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hey, Faggot!
>
> Hey. I'm in New York. I'm a "faggot." Want to meet for
> a coffee?

[Hard Bop D]

The media is actually pretty pro gay right now. It is the
lunatic Christian groups and far right government assholes who
are frothing at the mouth over gay married etc.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

"Will Brink" <willbrink@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:willbrink-2005071000200001@192.168.2.156...
> In article <ij6053toaigs44f26oota95r246cfuevv2@4ax.com>,
> noway@nowherenospam.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 May 2007 09:39:27 -0400, Steve the Geek
>> <zvqavtugpbzc@pbzpnfg.arg> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> Gay people have just been the new whipping boy since
>> >> psychotic fundamentalists and other right wing sick
>> >> shits can't say "nigger" or "kike" and have lynchings
>> >> any more.
>> >
>> >Get a sense of history. Gay people have been the 'whipping
>> >boy' for several millennia.
>>
>> To you and Will Brink I have to laugh--in a good way.
>> Thanks. I wasn't suggesting that queer folk have not in
>> many cultures and times throughout history been treated
>> like crap. Just that the current cultural perversions of
>> U.S. culture, particularly in the forms of white supremacy
>> and christian fundamentalism in its worst aspects, have
>> turned to us Queer folk. And it is more or less sanctioned
>> in the media and elsewhere.
>
> I agree with the former, not so sure I agree with the
> latter. I don't think it's sanctioned in the media per se.
>
> --
> Will @ www.BrinkZone.com
>
> "It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

[Prisoner A]

Politically correct morons like you have more in common with
bigots than you can imagine. You're both simple-minded
ideologues. Given your simple-mindedness, if you had been
raised in a different environment you would still be foaming
at the mouth -- only for so- called "bigots." You're an idiot
because you think that the color of your curtains really
matter, when you're just in the same mental ward as your
enemies. For in all your would-be ripostes, you've only proven
yourself a hypocrite and a bore, projecting onto me your own
inadequacies.

Like I've said many times on usenet, anyone who really has a
problem with my opinions can e-mail me in private to meet in
person. I am really curious to meet you jerks because my
theory is that you are actually very mild-mannered old men in
real life. And it is also my theory that y'all are only so
loquacious because of the medium -- usenet. In person, I doubt
you'd have much to say. I mean, how often can you go on and on
repeating the same bullshit, man? But somehow when you log on
it's like you're hypnotized to just bullshit. Not just with
me, but so many others in this NG through the years.

A very interesting psychology -- you should make yourself
someone's science project, Robert.

On May 20, 10:17 am, "Hard Bop Drums"
<nos...@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
> Don't worry. Our little anonymous troll will never do
> anything that will expose his lack of life to anyone other
> than himself and his computer. Anyone who is this proud of
> their bigotry will always wear a mask.
>
> --
> Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above
> the herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called
> evil; and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming
> mentality, the mediocrity of desires attains moral
> designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>
> http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
>
> "GMCarter" <f...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> news:3o6053tu8vutcc40omo8o3ecno5q2io3tf@4ax.com...
>
> > On 19 May 2007 22:01:32 -0700, Prisoner at War
> > <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>Hey, Faggot!
>
> > Hey. I'm in New York. I'm a "faggot." Want to meet for a
> > coffee?

[Prisoner A]

Get a fucking life already??

On May 19, 10:43 pm, "Hard Bop Drums"
<nos...@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
>
>
> Are you really this fucking ignorant to not see how
> disgusting your bigotry is? Are you capable of carrying on
> a discussion that is not filled with either homophobic or
> other bigoted comments? Your comments here about Asians
> are just as disgusting. You really are a reprehensible
> little fuck.
>
> --
> Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above
> the herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called
> evil; and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming
> mentality, the mediocrity of desires attains moral
> designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>
> http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
>
> "

[Prisoner A]

See? Disgusting. Faggots have that feline passive
aggressiveness usually found in women. Being in NYC, I deal
with you faggots quite often. A good 85% of you mutants are
ridiculous like that.

You fags really don't get it, do you? You think it's out there
in the boondocks where you're not liked because of "ignorance"
and "homophobia," but the truth is that you faggots just ooze
that weird creepy psycho shit in every thing you do and say.
This is why there's the saying "that's so gay." Your brains
are wired up like that. And God made you that way, fine. But
God made roaches, too; excuse me if I don't keep up with
current fashion trends and pretend to be gay- friendly.

You faggots are such drama queens. I'm having a conversation
about protein supplements, but you faggots gotta bring in your
homosexuality into it, like with everything else. And then you
want to cry that you're just like everyone else and shouldn't
be judged for being faggots.

The funny thing, I am probably one of the few people around
who really don't care about your shit. I generally have no
opinions on the matter -- gay rights, marriage, etc. Unlike
the sheeple who are now all okay with gay rights and shit, but
who yesterday would have been on the other side of things
since these types simply go along with whatever the majority
opinion is, I honestly don't care. It's not an issue for me at
all. But the gay lobby is so shrill they have to make an issue
out of it. That's what's so ironic. It's disgusting to me, but
so's escargot. But hey, different folks different strokes. Yet
you fags and fag-friends want to control a person's very
thoughts. So your fag-friends are only liberal fascists.
Fucking idiots all around. And you were only tolerated in the
first place because the gay demographic is even richer than
Jews. But now you really feel like you've graduated to the
mainstream, eh! Because the same idiots that watch TV now are
brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is just another
way of being -- which it is, of course, but like how escargot
is just another course. And you know what, fuck you for trying
to feed me escargot!

LOL...you ideologues are truly hilarious.

On May 20, 5:55 am, GMCarter <f...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hey. I'm in New York. I'm a "faggot." Want to meet for
> a coffee?

[Tom Anders]

On Sun, 19 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:

> I'm in NYC, and my experience of gays is that a great many
> of them act like our obnoxious, touchy, hyperventilating MFW
> hallway monitors: cranky, whiny, moody, bored and boring,
> preachy self-righteous in-yo- face dipshits.

Yeah, but that's just New Yorkers in general.

tom

--
Is this the only way to get through to you?

[Gmcarter]

On Sun, 20 May 2007 10:00:20 -0400, willbrink@comcast.net
(Will Brink) wrote:

>In article <ij6053toaigs44f26oota95r246cfuevv2@4ax.com>,
>noway@nowherenospam.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 May 2007 09:39:27 -0400, Steve the Geek
>> <zvqavtugpbzc@pbzpnfg.arg> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> Gay people have just been the new whipping boy since
>> >> psychotic fundamentalists and other right wing sick
>> >> shits can't say "nigger" or "kike" and have lynchings
>> >> any more.
>> >
>> >Get a sense of history. Gay people have been the 'whipping
>> >boy' for several millennia.
>>
>> To you and Will Brink I have to laugh--in a good way.
>> Thanks. I wasn't suggesting that queer folk have not in
>> many cultures and times throughout history been treated
>> like crap. Just that the current cultural perversions of
>> U.S. culture, particularly in the forms of white supremacy
>> and christian fundamentalism in its worst aspects, have
>> turned to us Queer folk. And it is more or less sanctioned
>> in the media and elsewhere.
>
>I agree with the former, not so sure I agree with the latter.
>I don't think it's sanctioned in the media per se.

Yes, I think it is. Nightline, it was recently pointed out,
had Falwell on its show an enormous number of times. Why? So
he could spew his blatant, homophobic bigotry? Who gives a
shit what that gas bag thinks (or thought). The media sucks up
to all those idiots like their opinion matters. And with
little outcry.

IMAGINE if these guys talked about blacks, Latinos or Jews the
same way (granted, Falwell got a lot of flack for his comment
that the antichrist was a Jew). But the outrage that correctly
exists for that kind of bigotry does NOT exist in the
mainstream media when it comes to queer people.

But then I think the media overall in the Untied States is
pretty abjectly horrible, self-aggrandizing and corporate
propaganda driven. It's hardly just their abject failing
around issues of human rights for lesbians, gays,
transgendered individuals.

George M. Carter

[Gmcarter]

On 20 May 2007 21:35:03 -0700, Prisoner at War
<prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>See? Disgusting. Faggots have that feline passive
>aggressiveness usually found in women. Being in NYC, I deal
>with you faggots quite often. A good 85% of you mutants are
>ridiculous like that.

Look at the despicable heterosexual lifestyle! They fuck each
other, bear unwanted children, beat, abandon, fuck and kill
those children. Raise them on garbage food and violence.
Heterosexuals are alcoholics, drug addicts, reverends,
politicians, wife beaters. Heterosexuals lie to each other and
divorce and philander, and fuck other hets behind their backs.

My god, what a sick, filthy, horrid lifestyle!

Heterosexuality on an overpopulated planet is clearly a
psychosocial disorder.

[Gmcarter]

On Mon, 21 May 2007 10:06:40 +0100, Tom Anderson
<twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:
>
>> I'm in NYC, and my experience of gays is that a great many
>> of them act like our obnoxious, touchy, hyperventilating
>> MFW hallway monitors: cranky, whiny, moody, bored and
>> boring, preachy self-righteous in-yo- face dipshits.
>
>Yeah, but that's just New Yorkers in general.

LOL...I'd love to meet you for a coffee too.

Especially since that whiny coward "P at W" ran away from my
invitation.

George M. Carter

[Hard Bop D]

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179720370.949881.29790@u36g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Get a fucking life already??

Wow! What an amazing comment. Are you capable of presenting an
argument other than some cheap cliche? You are one of the most
intellectually dishonest motherfuckers that I have seen here
in ages. Your comments are both ignorant and sophomoric. Being
proud of your bigotry is pathetic.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

>
>
>
> On May 19, 10:43 pm, "Hard Bop Drums"
> <nos...@hardbopdrums.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Are you really this fucking ignorant to not see how
>> disgusting your bigotry is? Are you capable of carrying on
>> a discussion that is not filled with either homophobic or
>> other bigoted comments? Your comments here about Asians
>> are just as disgusting. You really are a reprehensible
>> little fuck.
>>
>> --
>> Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above
>> the herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called
>> evil; and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming
>> mentality, the mediocrity of desires attains moral
>> designations and honors"
>> - Nietzsche
>>
>> http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
>>
>> "

[Hard Bop D]

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179722103.021248.220820@b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> See? Disgusting. Faggots have that feline passive
> aggressiveness usually found in women. Being in NYC, I deal
> with you faggots quite often. A good 85% of you mutants are
> ridiculous like that.
>
> You fags really don't get it, do you? You think it's out
> there in the boondocks where you're not liked because of
> "ignorance" and "homophobia," but the truth is that you
> faggots just ooze that weird creepy psycho shit in every
> thing you do and say. This is why there's the saying "that's
> so gay." Your brains are wired up like that. And God made
> you that way, fine. But God made roaches, too; excuse me if
> I don't keep up with current fashion trends and pretend to
> be gay- friendly.
>
> You faggots are such drama queens. I'm having a conversation
> about protein supplements, but you faggots gotta bring in
> your homosexuality into it, like with everything else. And
> then you want to cry that you're just like everyone else and
> shouldn't be judged for being faggots.

You are more pathetic than I thought even possible. Your
comments are no different that one would hear coming from a
3rd grader. You are incapbale of making a cogent argument, so
you have to fall back to calling someone who does not agree
with you a "faggot." You are truly a pathetic excuse for a
human being. I'll bet anything that this guy is shorter than
5'8", is over 20% bodyfat and has a tiny little cock. I would
LOVE to see you talk all of this bullshit in front of a female
that you have an interest in.

>
> The funny thing, I am probably one of the few people around
> who really don't care about your shit.

Right.

I generally have no opinions on the
> matter -- gay rights, marriage, etc. Unlike the sheeple who
> are now all okay with gay rights and shit, but who yesterday
> would have been on the other side of things since these
> types simply go along with whatever the majority opinion is,
> I honestly don't care.

Once again, when you try to pigeon hole me into a "group," all
it does is show your ignorance. I am THE least politcally
correct person on the planet. What you fail to realize is that
I abhore bigotry in ANY form. You really need to do your
homework before you make this type of ludicrous comment.

It's not an
> issue for me at all. But the gay lobby is so shrill they
> have to make an issue out of it. That's what's so ironic.
> It's disgusting to me, but so's escargot.

It is disgusting to you because you are a bigot. It really is
that simple. If you really don't care, post your REAL NAME
with your bigoted comments and grow some fucking balls. You
are no different than a coward in the KKK who hides behind a
mask. Come on tough guy, if you are so motherfucking proud of
your bigotry, go to work and yell that you hate "faggots." You
are nothing but a shit talking pussy. All the FACTS are there.
You won't post a SINGLE verifiable thing about your real life,
yet you find it easy to make up bold faced lies about others.

But hey, different folks different strokes. Yet
> you fags and fag-friends want to control a person's very
> thoughts. So your fag-friends are only liberal fascists.
> Fucking idiots all around. And you were only tolerated in
> the first place because the gay demographic is even richer
> than Jews.

Wow, you really can't help yourself when it comes to
making disgusting sweeping generalizations about groups of
people, can you?

But now you really feel
> like you've graduated to the mainstream, eh!

Come on coward, PLEASE do something other than claim that I
have to be gay because I am not a bigot. Why you think that
calling someone "gay" is going to win an argument is beyond
me. Remember pussy, I am comfortable in my sexuality, so
when some juvenile bigot like you calls me a "faggot," it
means nothing.

Because the same idiots
> that watch TV now are brainwashed into thinking that
> homosexuality is just another way of being -- which it is,
> of course, but like how escargot is just another course. And
> you know what, fuck you for trying to feed me escargot!

You are a brain dead moron.

>
> LOL...you ideologues are truly hilarious.

PLEASE get a fucking clue as to whom you are talking to before
you dig yourself a deeper hole.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

[Hard Bop D]

Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179719284.275728.21440@y18g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Politically correct morons like you have more in common with
> bigots than you can imagine. You're both simple-minded
> ideologues. Given your simple-mindedness, if you had been
> raised in a different environment you would still be foaming
> at the mouth -- only for so- called "bigots." You're an
> idiot because you think that the color of your curtains
> really matter, when you're just in the same mental ward as
> your enemies. For in all your would-be ripostes, you've only
> proven yourself a hypocrite and a bore, projecting onto me
> your own inadequacies.

LOL! For you to call me "politcally correct" just shows what a
fucking no brain moron you are. I STRONLY suggest that you get
an education and grow the fuck up. You come across here like a
semi retarded 17 year old. You make ludicrous sweeping
generalizations about entire groups of people and don't even
see how wrong you are. I also think it is HILARIOUS that you
try to make claims that I am "inadequate," yet it is YOU who
is too afraid to post a single fucking thing about your life.
My life is an open book moron. I have been around much longer
than you, seen FAR more than you and am physically and
emotionally FAR stronger than you. You are just another
anonymous moron whose own life is so motherfucking pathetic
that you have to hide behind a fake Internet persona. Please
at least "attempt" to come with a more cogent argument. I can
gaurantee you that everyone who just read that you called me
"polically correct" is laughing their asses off. You could nto
have come up with a more ludicrous comment. You are a childish
coward who listens to assholes like Lard Ass Limbaugh and
lives in a fantasy world. Butch up little man.

>
> Like I've said many times on usenet, anyone who really has a
> problem with my opinions can e-mail me in private to meet in
> person. I am really curious to meet you jerks because my
> theory is that you are actually very mild-mannered old men
> in real life. And it is also my theory that y'all are only
> so loquacious because of the medium -- usenet. In person, I
> doubt you'd have much to say.

LOL! You are THE biggest fucking hypocrite. Don't you see the
irony in your ill informed comments? YOU are the one who is
doing NOTHING but talking shit in Usenet. EVERYTHING that I
say can be 100% verified in a second. I have met dozens of
people from MFW and other newsgroups in person. You are
NOTHING but a blow hard, ill informed and immature child who
is so fucking frightened of the real world that he has to make
up an entire fake persona. Put my name in a search engine. You
will see articles written about me, by me and HUNDREDS of
other things that will verify anything that I say. You on the
other hand, are NOTHING but a sad bigot who lives an entirely
false life through shallow bluster and unverifiable false
statements. Tell me boy, what are you so fucking afraid of??

I mean, how often
> can you go on and on repeating the same bullshit, man? But
> somehow when you log on it's like you're hypnotized to just
> bullshit. Not just with me, but so many others in this NG
> through the years.
>
> A very interesting psychology -- you should make yourself
> someone's science project, Robert.
>
>
>
>

Come on pussy, post a SINGLE fucking fact about me or you. You
won't post a fact about yourself because you know how shallow
and pathetic your life is. You won't post a FACT about me
because all it will do is point out how ill informed and
shallow your commentary is. Butch up little boy. I don't know
why you would think that I am intimidated by the bullshit you
spew. All you post are lies, bigotry and pathetic sweeping
generalizations. That shit may fly when you are sitting around
with your friends who also have IQs barely in the triple
digits, but it won't fly in the real world.

--
Robert Schuh "Everything that elevates an individual above the
herd and intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil;
and the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality, the
mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

[Tom Anders]

On Mon, 21 May 2007, GMCarter wrote:

> On Mon, 21 May 2007 10:06:40 +0100, Tom Anderson
> <twic@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in NYC, and my experience of gays is that a great many
>>> of them act like our obnoxious, touchy, hyperventilating
>>> MFW hallway monitors: cranky, whiny, moody, bored and
>>> boring, preachy self-righteous in-yo- face dipshits.
>>
>> Yeah, but that's just New Yorkers in general.
>
> LOL...I'd love to meet you for a coffee too.

Heh. Unlikely to be in NY for a good while, i'm afraid!

tom

--
Sometimes it takes a madman like Iggy Pop before you can SEE
the logic really working.

[Prisoner A]

Actually, I'm all for population control myself. I think th