Checklist for giving advice

[EmmaB]

Firstly, let me say that I have benefited from so much great advice given and support provided in these forums. However, I've noticed that people looking for advice on their food intake and weight loss, especially in the newbie forum, frequently receive confusing and sometimes conflicting advice. This is partly to be expected as the board encompasses a range of views on low carb eating. However, I believe we can improve the quality of our replies by considering a few important factors about the person we're advising, before we hit the reply button (in no particular order):

1) What is the person's current weight and height (ascertainable by hovering your mouse over their gender symbol)?

This will help you grasp their approximate required food intake.

2) How much weight does the person have to lose?

This will help you estimate how quickly or slowly they can expect to lose weight.

A careful reading of points 1) and 2) will also help to ring the necessary alarm bells about whether the person needs to be on a weight loss diet at all.

3) What is the person's age and how deep an understanding do they have of the plan they are following?

This will help you tailor your advice to the needs and level of understanding of the person you are advising.

4) What plan are they following?

For example, if they're following SBD, it's probably best not to tell them to eat more fat.

5) How long has the person been on their low-carb plan?

This will help you work out two things:

.....a) whether they are in weeks 2,3 or 4 of their plan and thus probably experiencing Post Induction Stall Syndrome (PISS) and so don't need to change anything at all in their diet but just be patient.

.....b) whether they are a newbie trying to understand their plan and just getting started, or an old hand who knows all the rules and is just looking to tweak something in particular.

6) How much weight have they lost already?

If they've lost significant weight already on their current menu, is it possible that their body is just taking a breather and they don't need to be advised to eat eat more or less of anything in particular?

7) Does the person have any medical conditions or particular dietary requirements?

Now of course, you may not be able to glean all this information from the original post but I would suggest that, if they haven't included all this information, it is worth asking before giving advice.


And a couple of points about the advice you give:

1) Is your advice going to confuse them more?

For example, is your advice a one-liner that won't make any sense to them until they go away and do extensive research on the toxin you're warning them about, supplement you're suggesting, or non-mainstream low carb approach you are advocating? A few judicious links can fix this!

2) Is your advice relevant to the question they've asked?

If they've asked for "help with my diet please", then most advice will be relevant. But if they've asked "will eating this many eggs give me high cholesterol" then they probably don't need to be advised that "you need to eat more vegies or you'll die!"

3) Are you expressing as immutable truth what is, in fact, your personal perspective?

When you tell someone to eat more vegies, you may want to keep in mind that some other people think this is unnecessary. When you tell someone to eat five small meals a day, keep in mind that others would suggest you eat only one meal a day. When you tell them to reduce their egg consumption because it will lead to high cholesterol, remember that many people would disagree with that. The phrases "many people find ...", "in my experience ...", "you may want to try ..." and "YMMV" are all very useful here.


I know that every one of us has the best intentions when we give advice, that we are just trying to help each other however we can, but I believe if we keep the above points in mind, our advice will be better, more helpful and less confusing to those who need it.


Emma

PS: Of course, there is always the possibility that anyone not already using such a mental checklist when they give advice won't have managed to read through the whole of this post :(

[LoveMyGSDs]

Emma....This is excellent advice. :thup: I follow Atkins (1999 version) and I see all too often (mostly not on this board) someone giving advice under the guise of Atkins that just simply isn't in any of the Atkins books and is that advice-givers tweak (or sometimes even a misinterpretation) of Atkins. Tweaks are fine, but it's good to let a newbie know that you're offering your tweak, not something they missed or misunderstood in the book.

[dearmommy]

Wow great summary.

[Mallory08]

good points i agree... when i have a question i never know if people know i've been eatting this WOE since I was about 17(i'm 21 now) and i feel sometimes like i get advice and people think i havent read the book or i havent been eatting this way for a good while now! very helpful to consider your questions regarding replies!

[Kisal]

i never know if people know i've been eatting this WOE since I was about 17(i'm 21 now)JMHO, of course, but this might be prevented if you were to update your Profile to show a start date that was more accurate than "couple months ago."

[Judynyc]

All good points Emma!! :thup:

Thanks for taking the time to write it out.

[rightnow]

This is a nice list.

[Absinthe62]

Post Induction Stall Syndrome (PISS)

Gawd I love funny acronyms. :lol:

Thank you for a wonderfully written, succinct piece. Are you a technical writer by chance?

[EmmaB]

Thanks very much for the positive feedback, everyone!

Judy - no problem, I was happy to write it. Much more fun than studying for my administrative law exam :)

Absinthe62 - No I'm not a technical writer at all, just a humble law student. But I do have a lot of respect for technical writers and I know at least one or two of them inhabit these boards.

[deirdra]

4) What plan are they following?For example, if they're following SBD, it's probably best not to tell them to eat more fat.Good points, but I disagree with this one. If the plan they are using is not working for them, perhaps they should consider another. I was starving, irritable and stalled for months on an 1100 calorie SBD diet & exercising 10 hrs/wk. Now I am a successful 2000 cals/day Fatkins follower who exercises only 3-5 hrs/wk. Of course one should be considerate of the person's current choice of diet, but I see nothing wrong with describing a change that worked.

[foxgluvs]

Good points, but I disagree with this one. If the plan they are using is not working for them, perhaps they should consider another. I was starving, irritable and stalled for months on an 1100 calorie SBD diet & exercising 10 hrs/wk. Now I am a successful 2000 cals/day Fatkins follower who exercises only 3-5 hrs/wk. Of course one should be considerate of the person's current choice of diet, but I see nothing wrong with describing a change that worked.

Yes, but you were eating 1100 cals on the SBD diet?? Nowhere in the SB book does it tell you to do that, so in fact, you probably could have changed a little within the plan you were on without having to change over to Fatkins :idea: I agree that you can tell people about the posibility of other plans, but that's not what you said.


.....a) whether they are in weeks 2,3 or 4 of their plan and thus probably experiencing Post Induction Stall Syndrome (PISS) and so don't need to change anything at all in their diet but just be patient

PISS heh, very good! :lol:

[deirdra]

Yes, but you were eating 1100 cals on the SBD diet?? Nowhere in the SB book does it tell you to do that, so in fact, you probably could have changed a little within the plan you were on without having to change over to Fatkins :idea:I had tried all variations of SBD, and 1100 cals was the only level I didn't GAIN weight on once I stalled. I've been LCing for 7 years and Fatkins is the ONLY WOE that keeps me thin and happy effortlessly.

[foxgluvs]

Well Deirdra, good for you :)

[deirdra]

Good for you too, Foxgloves, you've made amazing progress! It just goes to show the variety of approaches that work for different people.

[EmmaB]

Good points, but I disagree with this one. If the plan they are using is not working for them, perhaps they should consider another. I was starving, irritable and stalled for months on an 1100 calorie SBD diet & exercising 10 hrs/wk. Now I am a successful 2000 cals/day Fatkins follower who exercises only 3-5 hrs/wk. Of course one should be considerate of the person's current choice of diet, but I see nothing wrong with describing a change that worked.
You make a good point, Dierdra. I certainly think that there are times when suggesting a person change plan could be good advice. The point I wanted to make, though, was not about changing plan but about advice that didn't take the nature of the person's plan into consideration.

"You need to eat more fat so you won't feel hungry" is not very helpful to a person on SBD.

However, if the person is clearly struggling on SBD and has been for some time, something like this could be helpful: "Perhaps SBD is not working very well for you because it tends to have a lower fat content than other plans and fat is what satiates you so you don't feel hungry all the time. You might want to consider switching to a higher fat program like Atkins or even Fatkins <insert link to explanation of Fatkins>. While SBD works great for some people, personally I found that Fatkins works much better for me."

The first quote just confuses people trying to follow a plan, the second quote provides useful information about alternatives.

I hope that clarifies my point a little.

Emma

[Judynyc]

You make a good point, Dierdra. I certainly think that there are times when suggesting a person change plan could be good advice. The point I wanted to make, though, was not about changing plan but about advice that didn't take the nature of the person's plan into consideration.

"You need to eat more fat so you won't feel hungry" is not very helpful to a person on SBD.

However, if the person is clearly struggling on SBD and has been for some time, something like this could be helpful: "Perhaps SBD is not working very well for you because it tends to have a lower fat content than other plans and fat is what satiates you so you don't feel hungry all the time. You might want to consider switching to a higher fat program like Atkins or even Fatkins <insert link to explanation of Fatkins>. While SBD works great for some people, personally I found that Fatkins works much better for me."

The first quote just confuses people trying to follow a plan, the second quote provides useful information about alternatives.

I hope that clarifies my point a little.

Emma


And just to add a point for arguments sake ;) ...there are many foods on SBD that are high in fat to satisy hunger.....nuts, eggs, avocados, olives....granted that they are all portion controlled except for the eggs...but we do get to eat good fats too!! :agree: :yum:

[Aeryn]

Wow, Emma! This is such a great list. It should be required reading before posting, lol! It also shows what a thoughtful person you are.

Anyway, I just wanted to ask about one particular part of your excellent post:

A careful reading of points 1) and 2) will also help to ring the necessary alarm bells about whether the person needs to be on a weight loss diet at all.

This seems to me to be an almost impossible judgment to make with any accuracy unless you actually have seen the person and know what size their frame is. Don't you think? I'm constantly amazed, actually, when I run across members here who are my height and are trying to get down to 130 (I would be skin and bones!) or who are my height and whose goal weight is about where I started (I felt so fat at that weight!). The moral of the story being -- we all carry weight differently. So, generally when I am surprised by someone's height in conjunction with their current weight and their ultimate goal weight, I simply conclude that they must be built differently. It would be really discouraging and frustrating to me, for instance, if someone whose goal weight was 160 started dismissing my pleas for help because she thought I was just fine for my height!

I think you probably mean that we should be on the alert for people who might have become addicted to the diet -- but I just thought I'd throw this caution out there. :)

Thanks again for the fabulous list!

[Judynyc]

almost impossible judgment to make with any accuracy unless you actually have seen the person and know what size their frame is. Don't you think? I'm constantly amazed, actually, when I run across members here who are my height and are trying to get down to 130 (I would be skin and bones!) or who are my height and whose goal weight is about where I started (I felt so fat at that weight!). The moral of the story being -- we all carry weight differently. So, generally when I am surprised by someone's height in conjunction with their current weight and their ultimate goal weight, I simply conclude that they must be built differently. It would be really discouraging and frustrating to me, for instance, if someone whose goal weight was 160 started dismissing my pleas for help because she thought I was just fine for my height!

When I see a person like this...I ask them about their frame size...I also ask them if they have seen an actual ideal weight chart and know what the range of "healthy weight" is for their height and age.

I can tell you that there are many who qualify as having an eating disorder based on their weight and height and what they are trying to get to weigh. They may not be aware of it and if they are, will probably deny it....but IMO, it is vital that we at least try to make them aware of what they are doing. :idea:

[Aeryn]

Okay, Judy, that's some good advice when approaching the sticky issue of asking someone if their goal is realistic or healthy. Thanks for replying!

BTW, wow, it looks like your journey has been really successful -- what an inspiration! I'm off to read your journal! :)

[EmmaB]

Thank you for the kind words, Aeryn :)

This seems to me to be an almost impossible judgment to make with any accuracy unless you actually have seen the person and know what size their frame is. Don't you think? I'm constantly amazed, actually, when I run across members here who are my height and are trying to get down to 130 (I would be skin and bones!) or who are my height and whose goal weight is about where I started (I felt so fat at that weight!). The moral of the story being -- we all carry weight differently. So, generally when I am surprised by someone's height in conjunction with their current weight and their ultimate goal weight, I simply conclude that they must be built differently. It would be really discouraging and frustrating to me, for instance, if someone whose goal weight was 160 started dismissing my pleas for help because she thought I was just fine for my height!

I think you probably mean that we should be on the alert for people who might have become addicted to the diet -- but I just thought I'd throw this caution out there. :)

Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. We certainly aren't in a position to judge whether someone can/should lose weight just from their stats.

I was trying to keep my post as brief as possible, so I used the phrase "ring alarm bells" to try to convey the idea that we need to be aware of this but not jump to conclusions without more information. Perhaps I should have explained it in more detail, just as you have done in your post. Thank you for that!

The moral of the story being -- we all carry weight differently.
:agree: :agree: :agree:
As a person with a fairly high goal weight, I am very aware of the need not to judge others based on their stats, in fact, even though I have quietly worried about the occasional poster, I have never posted a reply raising the issue primarily because I am so very far away from their situation. But I am relieved when someone wiser, smaller and better with words does raise it.

Actually, now that I think about it more, it's not the stats themselves that concern me. It's a combination of stats and what the person says about the approach to eating. Sometimes one gets the impression that this is not just about achieving and maintaining a healthy weight any more.

Anyway, I've rambled on a bit too much now and this topic is probably deserving of its own thread. It's a very sensitive point and one that must be approached with great care and understanding of different people, different bodies and different minds.

Emma

[thirteenlb]

What a great thread. I wonder if this could be made a sticky?

[EmmaB]

It seems like a good time now to bump this thread.

I should also have included as the first point in the second section of my OP:

0) Always show respect - no matter how recently someone started LCing, how many books they have/haven't read or how surprising their question, as a human being they still deserve your respect just as much as you deserve theirs.

[Mallory08]

OH MY I SECOND the advice just given!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pennink]

Fantastic advice...

always temper your advice with the 'you might want to try' and the 'has worked for me, ymmv...' lines... Good stuff, Emma.
:thup: