Diabetes: before and after insulin

[dina1957]

I found this article interesting, sheds some light on diabetic history.
Some interesting connections between pancrease, pituitry and adrenals.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1034981&blobtype=pdf

[dancinbr]

I found this article interesting, sheds some light on diabetic history.
Some interesting connections between pancrease, pituitry and adrenals.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1034981&blobtype=pdf

Great article Dina.

Just so you know, I talked to one of my long standing friends. She has T1 diabetes since age 12. She is now 60.

She is happy to keep her Blood Glucose levels between 100-120.

To date, there is NO damage as a result of her lifelong conidition.

Ralph

[pauleo]

Very educational, thank you for the article. I had previously been thinking what an amazing tool a glucose meter is, and how easy it has made it for me to get a sense of what's affecting my blood sugar. Presumably they are a technology from the last 10-15 years, accurate daily BG must have been a troublesome blind spot before then. They are so cheap they should become like thermometers with everyone having one in the medicine cabinet.

[dina1957]

Great article Dina.

Just so you know, I talked to one of my long standing friends. She has T1 diabetes since age 12. She is now 60.

She is happy to keep her Blood Glucose levels between 100-120.

To date, there is NO damage as a result of her lifelong conidition.

Ralph
Hi Ralph,
My point exactly, most drs. consider this range to be completely normal, and it is indeed normal (random BG 70-120).
Many T1 and some T2 who have decent control (H1C <6%) and have no organ damage and/or complications even if they don't have Bgs of 83 around the clock. Some use medication, some - mostly vegan diet: low fat, low carbs, and low sodium, and have great results. So every little bit counts.
I believe damage occurs when Bgs stay above 140 for extended period of time, and when exceed 150 the glucose is spilled into urine. I know ppl who were Dx with BGs of 400, 600, etc. Obviously, they went for years having sky high Bgs and by the time they were Dx they already had organ damage, good thing we got our cought in time, LOL.
Diabetes is a sneaky desease, it does not cause symptoms untill BGs are really high, my MIL feels fine and her BGs run 200-300 every day. She gets dizzy when her BGs drop <150 on rare ocation.
Just try to do your best, whatever it takes and if you meds to help with control (strive for <60%), go for it. I would definetely suggested Life Without Bread, it is a great book and suitable for ppl age 40+, I believe we both fall into this cathegory.;)
Chin up!

[dina1957]

Very educational, thank you for the article. I had previously been thinking what an amazing tool a glucose meter is, and how easy it has made it for me to get a sense of what's affecting my blood sugar. Presumably they are a technology from the last 10-15 years, accurate daily BG must have been a troublesome blind spot before then. They are so cheap they should become like thermometers with everyone having one in the medicine cabinet.
As far as this go with obesity, it will be pretty soon mandatory device in every household. Too bad the strips are so expensive.
Imagine how hard to was to control diabetes before then, no wonder it was a death sentence for many diabetics.

[dancinbr]

Fortunately, my insurance covers the test strips.

They cost me about 25 cents each.

I see how they sell for $1 in Walmart.

Ralph

[dina1957]

Fortunately, my insurance covers the test strips.

They cost me about 25 cents each.

I see how they sell for $1 in Walmart.

Ralph
You are lucky, I have to pay $90 for 100 strips, at least, they come off my HSA, but still, rip off. I can only guess that they don't cover strips because officially I am not on any medications, and based on my results.
I used to pay $10 for 100 at Kaiser before I switched to Blue Cross.

[dancinbr]

You are lucky, I have to pay $90 for 100 strips, at least, they come off my HSA, but still, rip off. I can only guess that they don't cover strips because officially I am not on any medications, and based on my results.
I used to pay $10 for 100 at Kaiser before I switched to Blue Cross.

When I make 65 in about a 1 1/2 from now I believe all this becomes free compliments of Liberty. I have seen it so many times on TV.

Anyway, yes a ripoff for roughly a $1 per strip.

I am finding my insurance to be quite adequate.

I also don't understand how insurance companies don't pay as a result of you getting your blood sugar under control and getting your A1C down under 6 heading for 5 or less.

It would be a disaster if that is the way they behaved for high blood pressure.

I take Rx's for that and my pressure is quite fine 120/80 or better. If they didn't pay for it because I now have "normal" BP, the BP meds would cost quite a bit. Without them my BP goes up and over 170/110; definite Earth departure numbers.

Ralph :D

[v-effect]

Wow- this board is full of perfect people! An A1C of less than 6 is considered "decent." I would call that excellent! How do you all manage A1C's in the 5s without lots of lows? Please share!
V.

[RobLL]

Walmarts house brand, ReliOn has strips $42 per hundred. Consumer Reports gave them a high recommendation on accuracy and low or medium on consistency. That likely is good enough for most purposes.

[dina1957]

Wow- this board is full of perfect people! An A1C of less than 6 is considered "decent." I would call that excellent! How do you all manage A1C's in the 5s without lots of lows? Please share!
V.
V-effect,
Most of folks on this board are T2 and not on insulin, so hypo is highly unlikely in this case. it is totally diffrerent for t1 as I believe you are.
I too think <6% is good, even some non-diabetics have it >6% but it is sort of competition to get it below 5%, LOL. IMO< everything less than 5.5% is very good.

[pauleo]

Is it normal for most T2s to be not on insulin in the wider world, or is it just low-carbers who can do this?

V-effect,
Most of folks on this board are T2 and not on insulin, so hypo is highly unlikely in this case. it is totally diffrerent for t1 as I believe you are.
I too think <6% is good, even some non-diabetics have it >6% but it is sort of competition to get it below 5%, LOL. IMO< everything less than 5.5% is very good.

[Lisa N]

Is it normal for most T2s to be not on insulin in the wider world, or is it just low-carbers who can do this?

I think the point that Dina was trying to make is that most of the diabetics on this board are not type 1 who are insulin dependent.
AFAIK, the vast majority of Type 2's are not on insulin, although many are on oral medications.
Some see medications as an acceptable tradeoff to be able to eat more carbs and still control blood sugar. Personally, I prefer to avoid medications as much as possible; I don't like being dependent on drugs for something that I can accomplish without them.

[dina1957]

I also don't understand how insurance companies don't pay as a result of you getting your blood sugar under control and getting your A1C down under 6 heading for 5 or less.
Not exactly, they won't pay if you never crossed 6% I belive, even if FBG is >126. Also not being on medications does not warrant daily testing in their opinion, and once in 3 months H1C is good enough to see overall control. I kinda agree with this, but addicted to testing, LOL.

It would be a disaster if that is the way they behaved for high blood pressure.
BP monitor is cheap, the analog is $29. We have automatic digital, it was $90. My insurance actually covers BP monitor, go figure.

I take Rx's for that and my pressure is quite fine 120/80 or better. If they didn't pay for it because I now have "normal" BP, the BP meds would cost quite a bit. Without them my BP goes up and over 170/110; definite Earth departure numbers.


BP is different story, all insurance cover the meds, and they are cheaper than BG strips. I guess it is fair that those who take sulfos and insulin or kids with T1 need them more than I at this point, Kaiser used to charge $10 for 100 strips, but only 100 a months, which is fair, but it was HMO.
PPO is more peaky and unless I take sulfos or metformin, or officially on any OHA, they will cover more for the strips.
I just need to order from the web, rather than buy from walgreens, I can still use my HSA card.
Bottom line: you want cheap strips, you need to take diabetic meds, this way it levels out profit wise.;)

[pauleo]

Ah my mistake. I have read the Dr Bernstein book but I somewhat skipped the insulin parts, and I had been thinking that most people diagnosed with diabetes were on insulin. (And I do know one T2 on insulin). What are the oral medications that T2s take? - do you mean prescription medications or over-the-counter natural products?

I think the point that Dina was trying to make is that most of the diabetics on this board are not type 1 who are insulin dependent.
AFAIK, the vast majority of Type 2's are not on insulin, although many are on oral medications.
Some see medications as an acceptable tradeoff to be able to eat more carbs and still control blood sugar. Personally, I prefer to avoid medications as much as possible; I don't like being dependent on drugs for something that I can accomplish without them.

[Lisa N]

Ah my mistake. I have read the Dr Bernstein book but I somewhat skipped the insulin parts, and I had been thinking that most people diagnosed with diabetes were on insulin. (And I do know one T2 on insulin). What are the oral medications that T2s take? - do you mean prescription medications or over-the-counter natural products?

Although insulin isn't usually the first thing prescribed to type 2 diabetics, prescription medications are prescribed almost routinely now and there are a lot of them out there. Many type 2's eventually do go on to require insulin, especially those that tend to rely heavily on drugs rather than diet to control their blood sugars. Some drugs such as Diabeta, Micronase and Glucotrol were the first to be approved for controlling blood sugar back in the 50's and 60's but fell out of favor as new and more effective medications came along. The most popular oral at the moment is probably Metformin (Glucophage), but Precose, Actos and Starlix are fairly popular as well.
The newest darling of the orals is Januvia (http://diabetes.about.com/od/equipmentandbreakthroughs/p/januvia.htm) but as with any drug, it isn't risk free, either.

[Lisa N]

I also don't understand how insurance companies don't pay as a result of you getting your blood sugar under control and getting your A1C down under 6 heading for 5 or less.

That depends on the criteria of the insurance company and, sometimes, on the laws of your particular state.
In Michigan, and many other states, there is a mandate (http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/diabetes.htm) that states insurance companies must cover the cost of testing and treatment for diabetics whether they be T1 or T2.
The company that I work for covers a glucometer and up to 100 test strips per month for anyone with a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes as long as their doctor prescribes them as well as lancets, alcohol swabs and any oral medications that are prescribed. Those that are insulin dependent can be reimbursed for up to 200 test strips per month as well as their insulin and meeters in addition to the benefits payable for type 2. The supplies and quantites allowed are based on the diagnosis, not the blood test results.

[dina1957]

Some see medications as an acceptable tradeoff to be able to eat more carbs and still control blood sugar. Personally, I prefer to avoid medications as much as possible; I don't like being dependent on drugs for something that I can accomplish without them.
I just have to remind you Lisa, than many T2 still can't achieve perfect control even on a VLC diet alone, this board is full of ppl that struggle with Bgs control when carbs are too low, unless they have very sedentary life style. Additionally, not everyone can sustain 6-12-12 plan for life time without getting some side effects: low T3, high cholesterole, and indigestion as a trade off. I also see many of those following VLC being on Metformin as well as using insulin, no matter how strict they are with the diet. No medication are side effects free, this is true, but VLC has its own side effects and for some of us quality of life is important as well as good BGs control.
AFAIK, Dr.Bernstein advises meformin and then insulin, if one can't achieve perfect control by the VLC diet alone, so diet alone is not a panacea for all of us.
Could be that this diet suites some while not possible for others, but those who have more active life style, those who want to keep up with exercise and sports, in general to feel good and have normal level of energy, need a bit more carbs. No one wants to be drug dependent but it does not meant that ppl resort to medication so they can binge on carbs.
JMO

[Lisa N]

No one wants to be drug dependent but it does not meant that ppl resort to medication so they can binge on carbs.

Not across the board, Dina, and probably not even here but in the 'real world', that's exactly what happens from my observation and something that even the ADA encourages.
As for 'active lifestyle' and needing more carbs, I'm not exactly a couch potato and do just fine but you'll notice in my previous post that I was referring to myself as far as controlling with diet alone. Some can't and even Dr. Bernstein doesn't suggest that everyone can (only that many can) achieve good control without meds. People do need to hear that meds aren't the only option available instead of being told that they are impossible to avoid. :idea:

[pauleo]

Sorry for ducking into the conversation from the side. Are you saying that low energy is a danger of low-carb for anyone? Or that it's more of a problem if you have T2? Also, when using carbs to keep energy up, are there good times of day to eat the carbs e.g. morning, or just anytime?


I just have to remind you Lisa, than many T2 still can't achieve perfect control even on a VLC diet alone, this board is full of ppl that struggle with Bgs control when carbs are too low, unless they have very sedentary life style. Additionally, not everyone can sustain 6-12-12 plan for life time without getting some side effects: low T3, high cholesterole, and indigestion as a trade off. I also see many of those following VLC being on Metformin as well as using insulin, no matter how strict they are with the diet. No medication are side effects free, this is true, but VLC has its own side effects and for some of us quality of life is important as well as good BGs control.
AFAIK, Dr.Bernstein advises meformin and then insulin, if one can't achieve perfect control by the VLC diet alone, so diet alone is not a panacea for all of us.
Could be that this diet suites some while not possible for others, but those who have more active life style, those who want to keep up with exercise and sports, in general to feel good and have normal level of energy, need a bit more carbs. No one wants to be drug dependent but it does not meant that ppl resort to medication so they can binge on carbs.
JMO

[pauleo]

Not across the board, Dina, and probably not even here but in the 'real world', that's exactly what happens from my observation and something that even the ADA encourages.
As for 'active lifestyle' and needing more carbs, I'm not exactly a couch potato and do just fine but you'll notice in my previous post that I was referring to myself as far as controlling with diet alone. Some can't and even Dr. Bernstein doesn't suggest that everyone can (only that many can) achieve good control without meds. People do need to hear that meds aren't the only option available instead of being told that they are impossible to avoid. :idea:

Sorry for a flurry of questions. What do you regard as good control without meds i.e. what BGs? Or to put it another way what would be the tipping point to going to meds?

[dina1957]

Sorry for ducking into the conversation from the side. Are you saying that low energy is a danger of low-carb for anyone? Or that it's more of a problem if you have T2? Also, when using carbs to keep energy up, are there good times of day to eat the carbs e.g. morning, or just anytime?
pauleo,
All of us on this board follow LC diet, and the only difference is some follow very low carb diet while others (like myself) eat sightly more carbs. it does not mean that everyone feels rotten on 20-30g carbs a day, I have tried it for few years, and still could not get my fasting blood sugar down to <110.
I did not like many long term side effects of the very low carb/high fat diet, so I am eating more carbs now, mostly from veggies, fruits, and very small amount whole grains (up to 1 cup a day). I feel much better, my thyroid hormones are no longer rock bottom, I have energy to workout everyday: run, swim, lift weights, and feel great overall. I also did not like the fact that my LDL was creeping up and total CHO rose to 215. I had it 160-170 before the VLC diet.
As for the time of the day, morning is not the best time to eat carby food, since you have the least amount of insulin after an overnight fast if you are not on medications. But since I started taking januvia, I can handle carbs up to 30 g per meal any time of the day. Diet alone is doable for some, but not for everyone, but i still consider my plan low carb, everything less than 20% calories from carbs is low carb, just not ketogenic.
I must exercise and eat much less fat to keep my Bgs under control and lose weight, eating high fat diet made me re-gain weight and drained my energy, besides, I prefer vegetables and fruit, not big meat/eggs/fat eater. I also hope that once I lose some pounds and be firm with my exercise regimen, I would be able to drop medication as well.
HTH

[dina1957]

Not across the board, Dina, and probably not even here but in the 'real world', that's exactly what happens from my observation and something that even the ADA encourages.
I have seen few endos, and NONE encouraged me to eat sweets, pasta, potatoes, etc. They did not advise me to stay under 30g either, but none of the drs Rx me medication so I can eat lots of carbs. They still consider being under 6% perfect control.
As for 'active lifestyle' and needing more carbs, I'm not exactly a couch potato and do just fine but you'll notice in my previous post that I was referring to myself as far as controlling with diet alone.
I am not saying that I exercise so I can eat carbs, I exercise to maintain my cardiovascular fitness, I realized how fast we can decondition afetr I masically did not workout for 18 months. All it took is going for a swim, taking stairs, etc. to realize how important is aerobic exercise.
Some can't and even Dr. Bernstein doesn't suggest that everyone can (only that many can) achieve good control without meds. People do need to hear that meds aren't the only option available instead of being told that they are impossible to avoid. :idea:
Absolutely, and this I believe is the 1st thing that even ADA advises: diet and exercise first. Alol medication including januvia stress that they work only if diet and exercise are followed.

[Lisa N]

I have seen few endos, and NONE encouraged me to eat sweets, pasta, potatoes, etc.

If you read closely, Dina, I stated that the ADA encourages such behavior. What your endo may or may not have recommended I have no clue about. However, the ADA is considered the 'leading authority' by most RD and nutritionists who often refer their patients to the ADA website.

2. Can I eat foods with sugar in them?


For almost every person with diabetes, the answer is yes! Eating a piece of cake made with sugar will raise your blood glucose level. So will eating corn on the cob, a tomato sandwich, or lima beans. The truth is that sugar has gotten a bad reputation. People with diabetes can and do eat sugar. In your body, it becomes glucose, but so do the other foods mentioned above. With sugary foods, the rule is moderation. Eat too much, and 1) you'll send your blood glucose level up higher than you expected; 2) you'll fill up but without the nutrients that come with vegetables and grains; and 3) you'll gain weight. So, don't pass up a slice of birthday cake. Instead, eat a little less bread or potato, and replace it with the cake. Taking a brisk walk to burn some calories is also always helpful.

People with diabetes have to take extra care to make sure that their food is balanced with insulin and oral medications, and exercise to help manage their blood glucose levels.

The Diabetes Food Pyramid divides food into six groups. These groups or sections on the pyramid vary in size. The largest group -- grains, beans, and starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This means that you should eat more servings of grains, beans, and starchy vegetables than of any of the other foods.

http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp

Sure sounds to me like the message is "Eat drink and be merry, but take this pill first" :p

[NorthPeace]

The beans in the bottom was a typo in the text. In the pyramid, beans go with meat as a meat substitute. Really, nobody (diabetic or not) over their ideal weight should be emphasizing starch. My what a dangerous pyramid!
:skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :thdown:

[dina1957]

The beans in the bottom was a typo in the text. In the pyramid, beans go with meat as a meat substitute. Really, nobody (diabetic or not) over their ideal weight should be emphasizing starch. My what a dangerous pyramid!
:skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :thdown:
beans are good source of vegetable protein, and while contain starches, also have greast deal of fiber, folic acid, and are high in nutrition.
May be we should stop blaming pyramid, I did not see chips, donuts, ice cream, and soda being part of it either. ;)

[dina1957]

If you read closely, Dina, I stated that the ADA encourages such behavior. What your endo may or may not have recommended I have no clue about. However, the ADA is considered the 'leading authority' by most RD and nutritionists who often refer their patients to the ADA website.
To the fairness, BD cake has lower GI then bread and potaotes, since it contains fat. BTW, if you have a very small slice, it won't spike your BGs as much as glass of juice or regular soda, or mashed potatoes. i have tried desserts that are made with fat and real sugar, and it was not a problem as long as portion is small. 1 tsp of table sugar is only 4 g of carbs, and if you combine it with fat, protein, etc. it won't be a problem, not for me at least, but I simply prefer fruit. I used to bake a lot until past 15 years, and most recipes call for 1 cup of sugar. I would make a sponge cake with 6 eggs, i cup of flour and 1 cup of sugar. it was very large one, and small slice was not a problem. Then I made custard with 1/2 of sugar, few egg yolks, milk and when it is cooled, whip it with butter, so small slice of the cake had more fat than sugar. This kind of dessert is OK for everyone on ocation, even T2.
ADA position on diabetic diet is that very few will complay with VLC, those were tried and true, and ppl still were not doing great; but diabetics wants to have a treat once in a while, and I don't see how is a sliver of BD cake can kill T2, even without meds. Even if ADA would declare war on carbs, suigars, and starches, most T2 will still eat this kind of food, it is human nature.
ADA simply can'ty advise advanced T2 to eat protein and fat iwht a side of small salad, and avoid the rest of the food. it is simply not real.
Sure sounds to me like the message is "Eat drink and be merry, but take this pill first" :p
Those who can't control on ANY DIET, are better taken pill. Not sure if taking pill is much worse than overworked liver and pancrease, indigestion and heart burn, hypothyrodism and high cholesterole, colon cancer and gall stone, gout and uric acid stones.;):p

[Lisa N]

To the fairness, BD cake has lower GI then bread and potaotes, since it contains fat.

And to be even fairer, the glycemic load of birthday cake exceeds both by a good bit.

Even if ADA would declare war on carbs, suigars, and starches, most T2 will still eat this kind of food, it is human nature.

That's pretty much the stance of the ADA and also confirms what I said before about people eating what they want and just using medication to cover it. 'On occasion' is one thing, but most take the ADA stance as a license to indulge whenever the craving hits, which is probably pretty often if they're following that ADA pyramid. :p
It's human nature to do a lot of foolish things but that doesn't make all of them inevitable or a good idea. :idea:

[dina1957]

And to be even fairer, the glycemic load of birthday cake exceeds both by a good bit.
again, a sliver is not going to crush your Bgs, especially if you ate fish and salad for dinner, it is total GI of the meal that will get you. Add some good wine and enjoy a sliver of cake once a year if you want it.

That's pretty much the stance of the ADA and also confirms what I said before about people eating what they want and just using medication to cover it. 'On occasion' is one thing, but most take the ADA stance as a license to indulge whenever the craving hits, which is probably pretty often if they're following that ADA pyramid. :p
It's human nature to do a lot of foolish things but that doesn't make all of them inevitable or a good idea. :idea:
I am not sure what is all about cravings, I have no cravings when i eat more cabrs, but put me on 30g, and all I will crave carbs and protein, I will be hungry all the time snacking on meat and cheese.:q:
Is it not normal for us to crave fruit, salad, even a bit of potatoe on ocation, what is wrong with it? Some days I can't even think of animal protein, especially in summer time, whatsoever, and just want a simple meal: bean soup, some pasta putaneska, some vegetable pilaf made with buckwheat, if i watch portion size, it still be OK. I crave starches on ocation, not just veggies, but I eat very sparingly.
I guess it is habitual, some ppl used to eat 300-400 g carbs a day before being Dx, so they can't control themselves, and must follow VLC diet to avoid binging. This part I understand, but I get this problem with protein: I can eat a lot, and still be hungry, even when I feel nauseated from too much meat, or I can eat more carbs, and much less protein - and feel full. for hours. It is strange, but I think protein is stimulating my appetite more than fruit or eveb cup of pasta or bread with some olive oil. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/DIANAK%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg
I guess since I never followed FDA or ADA food pyramid, I am not a carboholic or addict, so I can control my "cravings".;)

[Gostrydr]

dina,
why do you rewrite sound science and nutrition? We all know that animal protein is superior over vegetable protein in numerous ways.

Your love of grains and beans as a great source of nutrition..hardly.
Both contain lots of natural anti-nutrients and are incomplete protein sources..even when combined.

So what if they contain alot of magnesium and other 'goodies"

Won't do you a bit of good if you can't abosrb them

and talk about B.S

"Those who can't control on ANY DIET, are better taken pill. Not sure if taking pill is much worse than overworked liver and pancrease, indigestion and heart burn, hypothyrodism and high cholesterole, colon cancer and gall stone, gout and uric acid stones."

Wooohh, the ol' too much protein scare..Let me guess the next statement from you is that we all have 5lbs of undigested meat in our bowels right?

How any one would take anything you say with any credence is beyond me..especially anyone who is a T2

Whoa182 perhaps

[Lisa N]

again, a sliver is not going to crush your Bgs

Probably not, but I have as of yet to witness anyone taking 'just a sliver'. I'm sure you are the grand exception to that, though, and can take just a bite and walk away. But that wasn't the point of my post, was it? Birthday cake has a lower GI than bread or potoatoes but it has nearly double the glycemic load which, at the end of the day, matters a great deal.
Still..people will find a way to justify eating what they want to eat, I suppose and if the ADA condones it, let them eat cake, right. After all, the ADA isn't going to lose a limb or wind up on dialysis from following their advice, are they? :daze:

Is it not normal for us to crave fruit, salad, even a bit of potatoe on ocation, what is wrong with it? Some days I can't even think of animal protein, especially in summer time, whatsoever, and just want a simple meal: bean soup, some pasta putaneska, some vegetable pilaf made with buckwheat, if i watch portion size, it still be OK.

Dina, to be honest it's becoming quite obvious that you do not support or agree with a low carb lifestyle as most low carb authors define it, either in relation to diabetes or in general; in fact some of your posts of late have come across as somewhat derisive of low carb and those that choose to follow it and since this is a low carb support forum, I have a feeling that you would probably be a lot less frustrated and feel more supported posting on sites that better align with your dietary views.

[RobLL]

Probably not, but I have as of yet to witness anyone taking 'just a sliver'. .

I actually had a sliver, really small, and 1/3 cup unsweetened strawberries. Raised me to a 138, highest since Feb. Slivers of cake are dangerous :) Now sometime I am going to try with a Whopper Junior, maybe after a heavy workout. This is part of my experiment to take representative responses to my U of W Diabetic Clinic first appt. in June.

[dina1957]

Dina, to be honest it's becoming quite obvious that you do not support or agree with a low carb lifestyle as most low carb authors define it, either in relation to diabetes or in general; in fact some of your posts of late have come across as somewhat derisive of low carb and those that choose to follow it and since this is a low carb support forum, I have a feeling that you would probably be a lot less frustrated and feel more supported posting on sites that better align with your dietary views.
Lisa,
What makes you think that I am frustrated to begin with? What makes you think that I don't support LC diet? To begin with, could you, please, define low carb diet, how many carbs: 125, 100, 75, 50 or 20? All are low carb, just different level, and while I support lC diet for Bgs control, I simply don't agree with 20-30g carbs, and this comes from my own experience. There are quite few "frustrated" ppl as well who tried to control Bgs with VLC diet. I have feeling that my posts make you frustrated more than myself, but different opinions make the world go around.;) My latest posts were just my observation, not related to diabetes and BGs control. Too bad that you feel this way, I think it is better to explore all posibilities than have loopsided view on blood sugar control. I know how hard it was for you, and appreantly, you found your holy graale, but there are some ppl who can stay in control by following LV diet, just not a ketogenic diet. You keep blaming ADA and FDA pyramid, may be you are right, at least, in your case, while I blame my meat and fat eating years in becoming T2. If you read different studies, there are many linking protein and sat. fat consumption to diabetes and other illnesses. Supporting healthier version of LC WOE does not mean being against it.

[Lisa N]

What makes you think that I don't support LC diet?

Your recent post in the war zone is a place to start along with repeated statements from you asserting that it's meat and fat causing all the problems, not those wonderful carbs. :rolleyes:

If you read different studies, there are many linking protein and sat. fat consumption to diabetes and other illnesses.

Yes, and none of them controlled for the carbs that were consumed along with the meat and fat (fried potatoes and hamburgers with big buns)

We support a low carb diet on a low carb support forum...imagine. :D

[dina1957]

Your recent post in the war zone is a place to start along with repeated statements from you asserting that it's meat and fat causing all the problems, not those wonderful carbs. :rolleyes:
My recent post was observation of real ppl in real life, I was actually puzzled myself. It does not mean that I am supporting eating plates of pasta and rice, and lots of carbs, and against LC diet. BTW, eating too much protein is not healthy on any diet, and as I stated if it is not carbs that make ppl fat, then it must be something else. I posted in WZ so ppl could express themselves, again, many of this forum following moderate LC diet, and still support the enitre WOE. Ketogenic diet is not the only LC diet out there, and if regualr high carb diet is about 60% carbs, then 25% and less carbs is indeed LC diet. On 1600 calories, it is 100 g carbs.:p


Yes, and none of them controlled for the carbs that were consumed along with the meat and fat (fried potatoes and hamburgers with big buns)
Probably, but you can only ignore fat factor on a diet containing almost 90% fat, which is hardly sustainable, and as for lots of protein, it is again, up to debate. As for the studies, again, ppl of Medditerrenian coast eat hardly low carb diet, and still healthier than Americans.
WZ is for the topics like this to discuss, otherwise, this forum will come to a screeching halt, LOL.

We support a low carb diet on a low carb support forum...imagine. :D
Thanks for letting me know after few years of posting. How about general low carb forum, some ppl eat 150 g carbs with 40 g fiber and still consider it low carb diet.:D. Actually, 100 g of carbs is not even very low, conside that on 2000 calories diet, high carb intake of 60%, would make up for 300 g daily.:p

[Lisa N]

How about general low carb forum, some ppl eat 150 g carbs with 40 g fiber and still consider it low carb diet..

If you could point me towards those threads, I'd be more than happy to move them to the forum that they belong in (and you'll not that it's not a terribly active one): semi low carb plans (http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=138). ;)
In general, you will find very few people eating more than 60 grams of carb per day here unless they are exercising strenuosly along with it (weight lifting, marathoning, mountain biking, etc...). Average maintainence carb intake for most low carbers is between 50 and 90 grams per day (most towards the lower end with a few higher).

My recent post was observation of real ppl in real life

Your recent post was an observation of how people behave on vacation, nothing more, and there is very little 'real life' in that kind of situation. Even you yourself stated that you ate things you don't normally eat while on vacation. ;)