A fighting chance

[Dogbert199]

I'm back after a six week shift to a different approach where I found zero progress.

My fight with the "sense" of LCing versus my doctors found me on my doc's side. I tried calorie counting (using FitDay) and managing my exercise.

My spinal injury screwed me when it came to exercise, and managing calories simply didn't work. I would either feel like I was starving all the time, or I'd eat more than the doc gave me (2200/day).

Even when I'd exercise consistently, I saw ZERO weight loss. . . and the clock was ticking the whole time. I needed to drop 2# per week to be able to push surgery down the road.

So this weekend I got my wife on board and she's 100% behind me and she's my primary source of accountability. I've been back LCing for a couple of days and am already starting to feel better. Been exercising (walking only) and am making that part of my day; in other words, until I get in my hours walk, my day hasn't ended.

I need to be under 381 by April 2nd. I'm not sure where I am now, probably around 391-393. Don't have ready access to a scale that'll handle my size; but it doesn't matter. As long as I do what I gotta do, I'll get the results I need to get.

All I want is a fighting chance at dropping weight consistently so that we can postpone surgery until early summer, where I'll weigh in 50-60 pounds lighter and come through anasthetia more successfully.

If I can drop 20 in the next three weeks, then 2-3 per week thereafter, I'll be there by July 1.

[ldypgmr]

Hi Dogbert...

You can do it. I love your attitude of your day is not done until you get your walk in.

You are in my prayers..

[montanasun]

Hi Dogbert...

You can do it. I love your attitude of your day is not done until you get your walk in.

You are in my prayers..
I double that.

[Charran]

Dogbert- You tried something new. It didn't work. Lesson learned and moving on. Stick with it and you'll be at that goal in no time! All the best to you!

[ndurance1]

Pullin for ya bud! Keep on with the LC and you should see results without excercise even. I was over your weight when I started last November and I ate 4500 calories and 4000 calories and lost weight on LC. You can do this. Just remember to get lots of fat and meat into your plan, eat some veggies, take vitamins, and drink lots of water. Keep the carbs low. I stayed on mostly induction levels for a long long time, as I read one of the LC docs say that if you were morbidly obese (and *that* would be ME) you could stay on induction levels longer.

I know that everyone is a little different, but am hoping you find the solution you are looking for with the LC Way of Eating (I won't use the word "Diet").

Good Luck. Keep your chin up. YOU CAN DO IT!!!

[fatnfedup]

Go DOG Go!!

[Dogbert199]

Rolled outta bed this morning. . . day three, and wanted to go back to sleep. Forced myself to do a workout video (Biggest Loser DVD low-impact day).

After finishing it, getting ready for the day, I threw myself back in bed for much needed rest but I wasn't tired.

Lunch was a can of green beans and half a roasted chicken. Forgot how much fun eating like this is.

Tracking everything on fitday still. Need to figure out a fun way (or a tasty way) of upping my fiber without using Metamucil.

[Dogbert199]

So it's been a good six hours since lunch and I'm ready to cannibalize something soon. My folks are in town and made a stew with lotsa noodles (thanks a lot Dad).

Guess I can gripe in here as long as I'm not in there eating bad.

[BaronE]

Gripe here you sure can do......you're doing great...keep up the good work. you'll make it..

[Bat Spit]

Hey Dogbert!

Good luck with getting the weight to come off. We all know this program will work if we do the work.

I actually wanted to post about the surgery and anethesia.

I had my gall bladder out back in 2000, before I started low carbing, so I was around 480. I did just fine with the anethesia, but my healing was slow and my pain was high.

I just had abdominal surgery again. I did very well with the anethesia again. But this time, having prepared myself by being regular with my workouts for the last year, and very, very strict with the low carbing for the 2 weeks before hand, I'm healing super fast, and my pain has been much more manageable. I was out of the hospital a whole day before the original planning figure.

So, do everything you can to get into better shape for the surgery, BUT, know if you have to do it soon, that just eating low carb and keeping the inflammatory, immune system depressing sugar out of your body will help your body heal and recover to the best of your natural ability.

[j13]

I honestly wasn't going to respond to this thread given the history that you and I have had with butting heads, and the way I sometimes feel like I'm shouting into deaf ears when I talk to you, but Dogbert, I want you to succeed. You know that. Your posts on here remind me of me before I changed my mindset so much that it's scary. I really, truly do want you to beat this thing. But I also know that in order to do that, you are going to have to change some fundamental things about your approach. For instance:

Don't have ready access to a scale that'll handle my size; but it doesn't matter.

Yes, it does! Get one!!! I've been saying this FOREVER! WHY WON'T YOU GET ONE?! Seriously, it is NOT that big of an investment, and it pays HUGE dividends. This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Tanita-HD-351-Capacity-Bathroom-Scale/dp/B00029P2IO/ref=sr_1_1/002-9211632-3802415?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1173977829&sr=8-1

is the one that I and a lot of other people swear by.

If you are going to succeed, you MUST BE ACCOUNTABLE. The scale will keep you accountable in a real, ongoing way. People who are committed to doing this weigh themselves regularly and under constant conditions (always the same time of day and with the same clothes on/off),

I've noticed over my year+ on here that people who don't succeed have certain basic things in common. (1) They give themselves excuses when they do something off plan ("there wasn't any food in the house," "I was at a restaurant and I had to get..."), (2) They make up excuses *to* go off plan ("It's my birthday," "I'm under a lot of stress," "I don't have time right now..."), (3) they delude themselves into believing and try to convince everyone else that they know more than the plan does, and they make up their own "variation" instead of sticking to what an expert - whichever one, from south beach to atkins to whatever - has to say, and (4) they get combative instead of being open to advice from other people.

All four of these have nothing to do with WHAT people eat on their plan. They have everything to do with why they eat and what their underlying issues with food are. Without working on those (HARD) issues, I honestly think that those four things will stop anyone from succeeding.

In the past, we've had disagreements about all of those points. So I hope that this time it sticks, I really, truly do. But I don't think it will if you don't start working on the real problem, and that has nothing to do with *what* you're eating.

So I'm still here with advice any time you want it, and I'm still hoping very, very much that you succeed. It's just that it's getting to be time for the actions to match the words.

-j.

[SRabbit]

For me, I just really believe in Atkins; I really believe it works, and I really believe it works for not only me but obviously by the amount of success stories on this site, for a lot of people.

I lost 85# 3 years ago on Atkins, and then I let myself make excuses, give in to my poor choice food cravings, and eventually just not care anymore, and gained it all back. And very quickly I might add. It was the diet that failed me; I failed myself.

So this time, I did a major soul search, realized how terrific the plan is and how well it works, and basically just embraced it wholeheartedly. It's my lifestyle, it's the way I eat, so I don't look for ways to bend it---it works great the way it is.

You have a goal, Dog, that is very serious, but instead of concentrating on the goal, really think about the rest of this. Without needing the surgery, you still need to lose weight for other reasons, all of which you know----health, energy, fitting into an airline seat, whatever.....but most of all because you deserve to feel great each day, you deserve to look the way you want to look, you deserve it!!

I wish you every success in this....I support you wholeheartedly!!

[SRabbit]

I'm sorry--a correction---it wasn't the diet that failed me!!!

[Dogbert199]

Thanks all. . .

J! Nice to see you again!

I'm not looking to butt heads with anyone this time around. I'm out of excuses and have nothing but reasons now.

Reasons to train.

Reasons to lose weight.

Reasons why I CAN exercise, even when the weather is bad, even when it's late, even when. . . even when. . .

Today is day four and I haven't cheated. I'm feeling clearer, thinking clearer, and got through the sleepies yesterday.

The weather in Texas is gorgeous and I'm getting into the habit of changing into workout clothes the minute I get home, BEFORE I even visit my daughter.

I've gotten in the habit of putting her in the stroller and taking her for a 3/4 mile walk within ten minutes of coming home.

And I know I'm needing to build more and more habits LIKE that.

[SRabbit]

See, there you go---making it a lifestyle and embracing it and making it work----good going, you!!

[Dogbert199]

Day five y'all. . . and still rocking and rolling.

j13, I ordered a scale on Amazon. . . no tellin' when it's gonna arrive, but it's coming.

[Dogbert199]

Put in 2.5 hours of exercise this morning. An hour in the early AM, thirty min at home, then another hour with my daughter, walking her to a park and back.

Just trying to keep those habits going. Went a little higher on my net carbs today but it's in keeping with the increase in activity.

Loving breakfasts of pork bacon/sausage and eggs. . .

[j13]

I've been away for a few days, so I hadn't seen the updates until now, but I'm really, really glad to read what you've written in here so far. Your buying that scale was a really, really positive thing for you to do. It will give you a huge benefit.

When I started, I didn't have a scale - I literally hadn't weighed myself for at least 15 years. When I did, and found out what I actually weighed, I realized that doing that was something I needed to incorporate into my daily life. And it's good to see the exercise getting done. One of the things I did when I started was that if I worked out after work that I would not let myself sit down when I got home. I would IMMEDIATELY change and work out, so that I didn't give myself the opportunity to get distracted. That was a big part of my setting my priorities.

One thing concerns me, though. By "a little higher" on your net carbs, what are you talking about? I don't know what plan you're trying to follow, but I do know that that's not a mentality that I have never, ever had. My carbs stay low regardless of how much I exercise. To me - unless there is a specific plan that you're following with a specific prescription to do this - this smacks of a rationalization for eating badly (or, if not badly, at least sub-optimally). I mean, if you were hungry you could have just upped you "net steak" intake for the day while staying totally on plan (and eating a delicious steak... :) ).

I do not increase my net carbs when I work out, and if I did it would not be because I was working out, since that's not a part of my plan (DANDR). If I did it would be because I was choosing to do so, and I would acknowledge that doing that was not the best choice I could have made in light of my long-term goals.

-j.

[Dogbert199]

I hear ya, j, but it WAS a decision to have in keeping with my activities.

I had a single piece of fruit (insert shreek here) because I wanted to, because I know my body enough to know that it wouldn't effect me one bit after 2.5 hours of PT, and because I wanted the fiber.

I've been living on chicken, pork, sausage, bacon, eggs, and vegetables all week. I'm continuing to live on chicken, pork, sausage, bacon, eggs, and vegetables. Woke up this morning for some spicy tex-mex chorizo and eggs!

But when I put in a LOT of exercise, and for me, 2.5 hrs is a lot, I have no problem having a single piece of fruit, and I'm not going to cry over it because it IS a single piece, and in this case, a still green mango - whose sugars have not fully developed. Green bananas are the same - the sugars develop with time, they turn yellow, then spotted, then brown.

If I put in other 2-3 hours of PT today, I'll probably have another piece of fruit.

Because ultimately, this is about something I can stick to and lose weight on. My calories are low, my fiber intake is good, my carb intake is low (even with one piece of fruit) and I can stick to it.

It's easy to make a slipperly slope argument - one piece of fruit leads to a cup of haagen daz leads to a box of krispy kremes, but something is different this time around.

My wife told me that. . . I'm not obsesing about what to eat, I'm just eating. I'm not focusing night and day about the pitfalls tomorrow, I'm just eating and eating right.

My clothes is looser, I'm training more, exercising more, and keeping my eye on the ultimate goal - a return to the Ryan of old. . . the Ryan that ran 6.2 miles a day and trained in Aikido 3 hours a day on top of it. I didn't do that when I was a kid or a teenager; I was in my 20's.

That young man may be gone forever, but I can get that sense of health back, that sense of fitness back, and that sense of who I am back.

And that is what I want most.

[Kandra]

Hi Ryan,
I"m glad that you're taking control of your life in a very positive way.

I have a suggestion for you on when to eat your carbs. You may not have thought of this before but eating the carbs before you exercise is actually better for your body:
Your body burns fat for fuel in ketosis until you eat the carbs, then it slips into burning carbs instead of fat. When you're doing PT your body will burn the carbs (calories) in the friut instead of your body fat. When you eat the carbs after exercise you will be out of ketosis. That means everything else you eat for a while including the fruit will be stored as fat until you get back into ketosis.

The body uses whatever fuel it has an hand..on demand. You will no longer be in ketosis after you eat that many carbs, but if you eat it at a time when your body has a high demand for energy it will burn those calories then will have to slip back into ketosis for more energy.

It's your choice, and hey, I support anyone's choice here. It is your life, your body and your WOE.

Have you seen the My P.L.A.N. tool? It's a great way to track everything for you. That way you can tweek your eating according to how you're losing, feeling, etc. It's highlighted in yellow in the upper righthand corner of the screen. That way if you are going it on your own, your mind can't trick itself into thinking you've only eaten X amount of carbs when in reality you've eaten XX amount. You know unripe fruit is still loaded with starches and carbs for someone doing LC. During the two week induction period the body 'trains' itself to handle glucose differently. At least during Induction, try something other than fruit. Give it a chance to work its magic on you.

:thup: Good for you choosing to BE a healthier you. :agree:

[j13]

Hi Ryan,
I"m glad that you're taking control of your life in a very positive way.

I have a suggestion for you on when to eat your carbs. You may not have thought of this before but eating the carbs before you exercise is actually better for your body:
Your body burns fat for fuel in ketosis until you eat the carbs, then it slips into burning carbs instead of fat. When you're doing PT your body will burn the carbs (calories) in the friut instead of your body fat. When you eat the carbs after exercise you will be out of ketosis. That means everything else you eat for a while including the fruit will be stored as fat until you get back into ketosis.

The body uses whatever fuel it has an hand..on demand. You will no longer be in ketosis after you eat that many carbs, but if you eat it at a time when your body has a high demand for energy it will burn those calories then will have to slip back into ketosis for more energy.

It's your choice, and hey, I support anyone's choice here. It is your life, your body and your WOE.

What she said. Also, what I said before, and this:

http://www.carbs-information.com/carbohydrate-fruit/carbs-in-mango.htm

I don't care how green it was, that's a lot of carbs. Compare that to:

http://www.carbs-information.com/candy/carbs-in-snickers.htm

Functionally, you actually ate a candy bar. It may not have seemed like it, but that's what you did. Maybe it has some more vitamins (which you should be getting from your supplements anyway, btw), but you jammed a snickers bar into your ketosis, and you did it AFTER working out, so none of that energy went in to working out. Had you eaten a big steak, however, that food would have gone into building muscle and making you stronger and more able to do more exercise and lose more weight in the future without hurting your efforts. The mango was a bad choice. There is no other way around it.

Put another way: that mango has more carbs than I eat probably 85-95% of the time in an entire day. I doubt that its green-ness makes it, like, 5 carbs. If you can't not have a piece of fruit, you could certainly make a better choice:

http://www.carb-counter.org/fruit/search/Strawberries/0900

for instance.

Sure, it was great that you did 2.5 hours of PT. You certainly got way, way less benefit from it than you would have had you not had one "little" piece of fruit, especially since you had the fruit *after* working out. This is the definition of self-defeating behavior and rationalization. And you can say that you're not going to backslide just because of one piece of fruit, but I believe you've said the same thing in the past. I'm not positive off the top of my head, but I think it was hamburger buns last time. Also, you still haven't (to my knowledge) said what plan you're following, and how this "one little piece of fruit" works into that.

Look, it's great that you've been eating good otherwise, and it's great that you've been working out. But cutting out of induction is incredibly destructive to the diet. Period, end of sentance. When you're in ketosis, your body is working on a biological level to burn the fat in your body, and when you introduce an easier source of energy to burn, it STOPS DOING THAT. Then it takes a while to get your body back into that state - at least into it in its pure, effective "miracle" way that makes you shed pounds quickly. Again, this is all taking place on a biological level - there's nothing you can say or think to change this, no matter how small the piece of fruit, or candy, or whatever. And when your body gets jammed up and you're not losing, you get discouraged. And when you get discouraged and you start to blame the diet for not giving you the results that someone else had (like me, for example), you get defensive and quit. Then you keep gaining weight and die young.

Or at least that's what would have happened to me if I didn't stop rationalizing my bad choices over and over and over and over again.

While I support your efforts, I don't do it by telling you what you want to hear. I hope you hear what I'm trying to say. Catch these behaviors now and save yourself a lot of time, effort and heartache in the future.

As always, the good news is that, starting now, you CAN make better choices.

-j.

[Dogbert199]

j, the plan I'm following is in my signature, the Atkins Nutritional Approach.

The web site has been updated and it's slightly different than when Dr. Atkins was alive, but it's still a controlled carb approach.

As for greenness, you're right, it wouldnt make it 5g . . . but it sure isn't 35 either. The estimate I was given by my doc's is 25g.

I was at 27 for the day. I'll live with it.

[Bat Spit]

The web site has been updated and it's slightly different than when Dr. Atkins was alive, but it's still a controlled carb approach.

You're a grown up, so you'll make your own decisions, but the Atkins Nutritional Approach is only loosely based on Dr. Atkins' precepts and much more concerned with being popular and selling their products.

On one page they'll say 'don't eat anything not on the acceptable foods list' yet on the 'suggested menu' pages, they include all kinds of things not on that very list.

I find that fishy.

[j13]

Warning for the squeamish: this post contains cursing.

j, the plan I'm following is in my signature, the Atkins Nutritional Approach.

The web site has been updated and it's slightly different than when Dr. Atkins was alive, but it's still a controlled carb approach.

As for greenness, you're right, it wouldnt make it 5g . . . but it sure isn't 35 either. The estimate I was given by my doc's is 25g.

I was at 27 for the day. I'll live with it.

FUCKING TAKE THE MANGOS AND THROW THEM IN THE MOTHERFUCKING TRASH.

There, I said it. Enough bullshit.

Look, take a reread of this thread, then look at your last few posts. They are EXACTLY what I was talking about before. You are not admitting that you made a mistake. And, for the record, I don't care whether you make that admission to me or keep it privately in your mind, but if you don't do it, you will not succeed. This is absolute fact. You need to recognize bad behaviors in order to correct them. PERIOD.

I don't know the ANA, or how that relates to the DANDR plan. If it is associated with the company, not the man, Atkins, then I am dubious of it, I'll tell you that much. So when I refer to Atkins, I am referring to it as it is written in DANDR, which is the form I stand by and have been successful with. If you don't have it, it's available in any bookstore and from iTunes as an audiobook.

So speaking from an Atkins point of view, you ARE NOT following the plan. It is NOT okay to eat a mango during induction. If you only had 27 carbs and you're chalking 25 of them up to a mango (which I all but guaratee is a lowball estimate) then you did not eat your green vegetables and you were, again, not eating on plan. Period. If you are claiming that you are following an Atkins plan, then you are not following it - and you've just barely started. And if you fail, this will be why. PERIOD.

In short, you are doing precisely what I wrote about previously in this thread:

(1) They give themselves excuses when they do something off plan ("there wasn't any food in the house," "I was at a restaurant and I had to get...")

"I wanted to, because I know my body enough to know that it wouldn't effect me one bit after 2.5 hours of PT, and because I wanted the fiber."

You do NOT know that it won't have an effect, because you are factually wrong about that. This is science, not a guess.

You wanted fiber???? Come one. Worst. Rationalization. Ever. Get yourself some metamucil or eat some ruffage or some berries.

"I have no problem having a single piece of fruit, and I'm not going to cry over it because it IS a single piece, and in this case, a still green mango - whose sugars have not fully developed. Green bananas are the same - the sugars develop with time, they turn yellow, then spotted, then brown."

It's not a big deal, it's little and green. Please. A piece of chocolate is little and brown. THIS IS SUCH A RATIONALIZATION IT IS INSANE. Unless Atkins says somewhere that it's cool to eat "Green" mangoes, then IT IS NOT OKAY.

(2) They make up excuses *to* go off plan ("It's my birthday," "I'm under a lot of stress," "I don't have time right now...")

"But when I put in a LOT of exercise, and for me, 2.5 hrs is a lot" ... "My clothes is looser, I'm training more, exercising more, " i.e. "I've been good, I deserve it." No, you don't. You went off plan. Period.

(3) they delude themselves into believing and try to convince everyone else that they know more than the plan does, and they make up their own "variation" instead of sticking to what an expert - whichever one, from south beach to atkins to whatever - has to say,

Pretty much exactly what I was talking about. You think you know more than Atkins did? Get the fuck out of here. You do not. Your rationalizing eating something you shouldn't says to me that you think you do. FOLLOW THE PLAN AS WRITTEN AND YOU WILL SUCCEED. KEEP MAKING UP YOUR OWN RULES AND YOU WILL FAIL.

and (4) they get combative instead of being open to advice from other people.

Why not just say, "I ate off plan, I made a mistake, I intend to do better in the future." THAT is what successful people do. It is FINE to make mistakes. It is NOT a big deal to make them. It is when you make them and you do not ackowledge or correct them that your cycle of self-destruction continues.

I don't know any other way to say this: if you don't fix this, you will die. I can't, and won't, do it for you. It's up to you to dispense with the talk and start actually doing it. Start clean today, and give yourself over to it, or you will not succeed.

Still wishing you success-

-j.

[Dorr185]

LOL at all of this. If they guy wants a mango, he'll eat a mango!

If you feel good after working out and eating your mango, that's all that's important. I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to rationalize the choices you make to everyone else. You know how your body will respond, so if a mango is fine for you, I hope you enjoyed it!

If you find the mango impeded your progress, you'll have to adjust, but if it didn't like you said, no worries!

[j13]

LOL at all of this. If they guy wants a mango, he'll eat a mango!

If you feel good after working out and eating your mango, that's all that's important. I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to rationalize the choices you make to everyone else. You know how your body will respond, so if a mango is fine for you, I hope you enjoyed it!

If you find the mango impeded your progress, you'll have to adjust, but if it didn't like you said, no worries!

Dorr, this isn't just a mango, this is a pattern of behavior that has lasted literally for years. He first registered in may 2004. Dogbert has even *gained* some weight since I started here some 15 months ago (and over which time I've lost over 160 lbs, again as you know). We've been through this a thousand times before, and that's why I made a big deal of it - because it's not just one mango, it's a self-destructive mindset that has perpetuated itself through countless threads over the entire time I've been here.

You should know me well enough by now from reading my posts on here to know that I don't judge anyone for making a mistake. This is a far, far deeper issue. It's not about a mango, it's about everything else over years on here. Look at my first post in the thread - there's a reason I wrote said that I almost didn't enter into the thread in the first place, and it wasn't because I thought Dogbert might eat something he shouldn't - that's something everyone does. It's about the mindset that makes it a pattern, and which frankly makes me feel like I'm shouting into the void. Other people have PM'ed me and posted encouragement to my journal just in the 1 1/2 hours since I posted this, though, so at least someone's hearing what I'm saying.

-j.

[Dorr185]

Oh, I am hearing what you are saying. It even makes sense to me. But this isn't about what works for me or you, it's about him. This was obviously someone who was extremely proud of himself for working out for so long. I thought it was a little much to come down on someone when they were posting what thought was a positive accomplishment.

And not to rationalize for him, but the metabolism does burn more calories after a work out, so maybe the mango will not effect him that much.

The most important part of his post for me was.........

"because I wanted to, because I know my body enough to know that it wouldn't effect me one bit after 2.5 hours of PT, and because I wanted the fiber."

He did acknowledge that he didn't eat the fruit because it was part of the plan, but because he wanted to. It also appears as though he made a conscious decision based on his own experiences with his own body.

I just think I can relate to the guy. The most important thing is that he has to do it his way for it to work. You don't agree with the choice of a mango, I understand that, but this is him!

I don't follow any particular plan to the letter, and if I want something, no matter what it is, I eat it. Sushi was my last indulgence. I wanted sushi, so I went to the gym the morning before, had sushi for dinner (tons of it) and worked out later. Never gained a pound, didn't slow down my weight loss, never left ketosis.

My point is, eating a mango after working out for 2.5 hours may work for this guy, even if you don't agree it's a good idea. I'm sure you don't think me eating Sushi is a great idea but I still managed to drop over 100 pounds in six months.

This guy has to figure it out for himself through trial and error. Soon enough he'll know if the mango was an error, and if it was, it'll be up to him to adjust. For all we know, upping his carbs a little might help him lose a little faster, as it does for a lot of people.

And one more thing, this quote is categorically untrue.

FOLLOW THE PLAN AS WRITTEN AND YOU WILL SUCCEED. KEEP MAKING UP YOUR OWN RULES AND YOU WILL FAIL.

That type of one size fits all mentality is what makes you fail. I took the diet, followed it by the book and it didn't work for me, I couldn't stick to it. It wasn't until I put my own spin on it that it worked for me. I'm sorry, but I think that quote is horrible advice.

In closing.........I wasn't defending him OR calling you judgmental. Maybe I was playing devils advocate a little.

[j13]

And one more thing, this quote is categorically untrue.



That type of one size fits all mentality is what makes you fail. I took the diet, followed it by the book and it didn't work for me, I couldn't stick to it. It wasn't until I put my own spin on it that it worked for me. I'm sorry, but I think that quote is horrible advice.

In closing.........I wasn't defending him OR calling you judgmental. Maybe I was playing devils advocate a little.

Seriously, Dorr, you are VERY different from most people. You are exceptional in *that* you've been able to do this your way. Most people - by which I mean nearly everyone other than you, from myself to my parents to my friends to my coworkers - who has acted like they knew better than the plan and didn't listen to and heed the advice of experts failed. And it wasn't because they didn't try to lose weight. The fact is that you don't get to be as fat as I was by knowing about nutrition. Therefore, for the GRAND, GRAND majority of those of whom have been successful (from my reading on this board and others), the success came from taking the plan and living it without exception or excuses (keeping in mind, of course, that everyone does make mistakes along the way).

Further, Dogbert has demonstrated time in and time out, over the entire time that I've known him through this board, that his interpretations of what's right or wrong to do have been consistently wrong. Over and over again. It has been rationalization, not "self-awareness." Yet he keeps doing it his own way. You, Dorr, came out the gate successfully, younger (I think) and with less attempts under your belt. I, and Dogbert, are the opposite. You fail over and over and over and over again, across every type of diet and at some point you need to recognize that the common denominator to your lack of success is you. That is why I had to drop my ego, admit that I did NOT know best, and follow the plan to the best of my ability, being as honest as I could about everything I did. Dogbert reminds me of me, that is why I say he needs to do the same.

As to the rest of what you wrote, I'm comfortable with everything I've said, and the feedback I've gotten from some of the other members of the community makes me feel like my viewpoint (and method of communicating that viewpoint) was and is valid.

-j.

[Dorr185]

Well, that's fair. I'm not so sure about me being the except, I often hear about how people switch up the plan to make it work for them.

The only reason I got involved in the first place was because I can somewhat relate to the guy. It's the small victories that keep some of us going. If having the occassional mango after a hard workout is the thing that keeps this guy on the plan, I would hate for him to give that up and then give up on the whole plan.

Oh, and your view point was valid, but they way you communicated it came off comical. To each his own though.

Me and you have both found ways to be successful on this diet, and I hope this guy can find his own way too. I just think it's important that he knows that he can do it his way and still succeed.

I hope he doesn't get discouraged by your rude and over the top post.

[Dogbert199]

Hi Dorr. . .

J's right. . . I have a history of losing and gaining, losing and gaining even more.

I know for a fact that the one mango didn't do anything to me, and I didn't have anymore - didn't need them, had no desire for them.

Continued the exercise yesterday, put in another 90 min, so my goal of 3-6 was hit (4+ hrs).

Eggs for breakfast, ham and cheddar lettuce wraps for lunch.

All the yelling about the mango aside, j's heart's in the right place. I know he wants me to succeed.

I know why I ate the fruit, I'm not sorry for eating the fruit, and if I want another piece like that again, I'm going to have one. No apologies. In a day where I'd hardly had any carbs, I could afford it. And going over the 20g mark by 7g is not the end of the world.

The ANA is what the doctor's at Atkins now call "doing Atkins". And they are open to you starting the diet at ANY of the four phases, not strictly Induction.

I started at Induction because I knew I needed it. I needed the cleansing nature of it, I needed to break the sugar habit. But I love fruit too. I love the fibrous fruits - berries, mangoes, stringy stuff.

Can't wait for the scale to get in to see how much weight I've lost so far. Still haven't gotten notification from the seller at Amazon, so there's no telling.

Regardless, in exactly two weeks I'm in the doc's office deciding on surgery options. So I'm sticking to the diet I've been following, to the exercises I've been doing, and to the commitments I've made.

[gweny70]

I think you're doing great!! Stay positive and KUTGW Ryan!!!

[Dogbert199]

Thanks, Gwen. . . I'm hoping KUTGW is something good.

Clothing is much looser now, pants are coming near my waist kinda high - in the European manner - so the cuffs won't drag.

Whatever I'm doing seems to be working, now I need to simply keep doing it, and not try to add anything to it (i.e. brown rice, sweet potatoes, etc - stuff that's lower in carbs than normal but much higher in carbs than what I'm eating now).

Found these low carb tortillas that are like eating cardboard, but it's like 14g of fiber per tortilla, 3 net carbs. FYI, they make for good breakfast burrito wrappers.

[gweny70]

Thanks, Gwen. . . I'm hoping KUTGW is something good.

Clothing is much looser now, pants are coming near my waist kinda high - in the European manner - so the cuffs won't drag.

Whatever I'm doing seems to be working, now I need to simply keep doing it, and not try to add anything to it (i.e. brown rice, sweet potatoes, etc - stuff that's lower in carbs than normal but much higher in carbs than what I'm eating now).

Found these low carb tortillas that are like eating cardboard, but it's like 14g of fiber per tortilla, 3 net carbs. FYI, they make for good breakfast burrito wrappers.

KUTGW--Keep Up The Good Work! :) It's a great feeling when that clothing starts to loosen up! Keep at it..keep doing what you're doing now and they will be falling off of you--literally--in no time!!

[Dogbert199]

Ah. . . well, I'll keep on KUTGW-ing (if that's the way to write it...).

I'm dying for the dang scale to come in, tracking it daily on FedEx. I REALLY want to know what I'm weighing now. . .

In 11 days I have my big official medical weigh in, and I do blood work next week, so I'm looking forward to seeing those numbers.

The worst I've done in the last couple of days has been having some shredded carrot on top of a salad, and as part of a chinese meal (sauteed chicken and veggies).

The biggest struggle, if you can call it that, is keeping my water levels where they need to be.

[Dogbert199]

So a week ago I started back low carbing right? Monday, March whatever it was. . .

Today the scale arrived.

389.6!

I need to drop another 8.6 pounds in two weeks to avoid surgery.

And that's weighing myself at the end of the day, after a breakfast of omelette, lunch cobb salad, three hard boiled egg snack, and nearly 70oz of water/coffee/diet coke.

I'm JAZZED!

[Judynyc]

Thats great Ryan!! :thup:

If I may make a suggestion for you? Its best if you weigh in the mornings only and at no other time of the day. Your "am" weight will be a few lbs lower than what you just weighed.

.....I keep an index carb next to my scale and record all my weights...for the past 3 yrs!! Thats a lot of index carbs!! :lol:

Having a good scale can make all the difference for you!! :agree:

My very best to you!! :cool:

[Dogbert199]

Well, it just arrived. . . I couldn't just let it sit there :-)

[Judynyc]

Well, it just arrived. . . I couldn't just let it sit there :-)


I hear ya!! :lol:

I would've jumped on also..... :agree:

[happy07]

Good luck, Dogbert! You've got a great attitude.

[joylorene]

Hey way to go!!! Yeah I also weigh in the am - after a bathroom visit and without any clothing (don't want to take any chances) and god help anyone driving by my house that early if they happen to peek thru my curtains HA HA YUCK!!!

[txfemale]

I support you and I feel for you. I weigh in at 342, its not fun being over 300 pounds it really isnt.

i dont know how tall you are. Im only 5 foot 3. 125 to 130 pounds is normal for me. Obviously I wont be getting down that low. ill be happy if I can just get down to 175. But I think my goal is 160.

Good luck.

[gweny70]

CONGRATS Dogbert on your weight loss!! What a great start you are off too! I'm sure the # on that scale will be even lower tomorrow AM on an empty stomach!! You are well on your way to meeting your goal! CONGRATS!!

[Greenwitch]

Right on, dogbert!!! That's so great, and hey, bonus for weighing in at the end of the day! You rock!

[susansmk]

Congrats on the loss, Dogbert! You are ON YOUR WAY!!

[Dogbert199]

HEY!

Checked about an hour ago, 7:30 at night, and I'm weighing in at 387.2!

[Dogbert199]

So Friday I went to Austin to visit family and spent the weekend playing with my nephews. Took them hiking for three hours yesterday at a state park (McKinney Falls).

Scale weight this morning:384.2!

[gweny70]

Wow Ryan!! GREAT JOB!! Aren't you so glad you got that scale! You are off to an amazing start!! Have a wonderful week!!

[Dogbert199]

So I made the decision a few days ago that I needed to get in my daily exercise and I was kinda ticked that I didn't yesterday, so I went for a hike at lunch and did the entire Frito Lay track for the first time ever.

At a certain point, I felt like a bone snapped in my left foot but I walked it off. Finished it in a little over an hour. One of the guys from the team was jogging the track and lapped me twice.

I feel tired, but I feel good. I want to get back into the habit of exercising at home too.

More later. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to eat a cold steak without a knife.

[Dogbert199]

Had the big blood test today. Yesterday I was 388 in the morning, and I was wondering what the hell happened.

Turned out it was just water retention. Was 384.0 even when I left for the doc's this morning.

The big exam is Monday. I'm hoping to be in the 370's when I visit him. Would love to see his response to a 20 pound weight loss.

The phlebotomist said my blood came out looking good; bad blood, VERY high choloesterol blood will actually come out clumpy. Had never heard that before, but I'm sure after bleeding enough people she'd know what blood's supposed to look like.

For all the EFA's, Fish Oil, and Fish I've been consuming, not just the last 2.5 weeks but for the last 8 weeks, my HDL's better be frickin' high. . . I'm hoping for like a 60.

I expect to have high LDL's, but that's cause I've only been low carbing for a couple of weeks. I know the numbers balance after six weeks or so.

I'm expecting low triglycerides (they're effected by high carb diets) and a good blood glucose (because My God, I haven't had any glucose in my food for some time).

Oh well, wanted to document my predictions before the results come in.

[Dogbert199]

The next big weekend is here!

It's now or never time. Weight fluctuated a bit, expected, but I need to kick up the exercise a couple of dozen notches to make sure that when I go in on Monday I'm in the 370's. . . and that's the goal.

I don't care if it's 379.99999999999 -- it was 397.1 the last time I went in, and it's a personal thing now. I know it can be done.

[Dogbert199]

Oops, forgot to mention. . . the Doctor visit is Monday afternoon, after work.

[SRabbit]

Good luck!!!

[Dogbert199]

Weirdest thing is happening. . . had a monster weight fluctuation and I'm not sure how to respond.

So I ate late yesterday, and I think there was some kind of starch in a beef dish I had the other day because I went from 384 to 388 in a day, peaking at 391 last night.

This morning, and I'm drinking water like mad and accounting for a 2-3 hour walk yesterday, I'm weighing in at 383.8, LOWER than my 384 from a couple days ago.

I may or may not make my 381, but my wife and I are happy with the progress and if the doctor demands I move toward surgery because of a 1-2 pound window, we're firing him.

Still, the fluctuations are enough to drive a sane person wacky.

[Judynyc]

Weirdest thing is happening. . . had a monster weight fluctuation and I'm not sure how to respond.

So I ate late yesterday, and I think there was some kind of starch in a beef dish I had the other day because I went from 384 to 388 in a day, peaking at 391 last night.

This morning, and I'm drinking water like mad and accounting for a 2-3 hour walk yesterday, I'm weighing in at 383.8, LOWER than my 384 from a couple days ago.

I may or may not make my 381, but my wife and I are happy with the progress and if the doctor demands I move toward surgery because of a 1-2 pound window, we're firing him.

Still, the fluctuations are enough to drive a sane person wacky.

Hi Ryan,
Fluctuations like that are generally from water weight due to a salty meal.....that beef was probably high in sodium, did you eat it at a restaurant?

Once again, it really is best for you to not weigh in the evening and only in the mornings...it'll drive you nuts seeing those evening numbers.:daze:

Good job on your continued success!! :thup: :cool:

[gweny70]

Have a great week and hope dr appt goes GREAT today!!

[Dogbert199]

382.1!

I get another 10 weeks to keep up the work.

We're still waiting on some of the blood results, but everyone's happy with the progress.

He DOES want me to move into more of a South Beach maintenance approach.

We'll talk about it after I drop another 15 pounds :)

[j13]

382.1!

I get another 10 weeks to keep up the work.

We're still waiting on some of the blood results, but everyone's happy with the progress.

He DOES want me to move into more of a South Beach maintenance approach.

We'll talk about it after I drop another 15 pounds :)

Keep with Atkins. Imo, South Beach doesn't work well for us guys who aren't kings of moderation. If you're strict to the DANDR plan, you will have undeniable results.

Nice work so far, Dogbert. Keep it up.

Don't worry about short-term fluctuations in your weight. Give it a couple of days before you even think twice about it, and even then keep it in perspective. And for the love of god, weigh yourself first thing in the morning under consistent conditions.

Anyway, keep to it.

Good luck-

-j.

[Dogbert199]

Thanks, J. . .

The plan is to keep rockin' and rollin'!

[gweny70]

So glad to hear the dr appt went well and that he's giving you some more time to keep at it!! Great news!!! Have a terrific day!

[j13]

Dogbert, what's going on by now? Staying on?

-j.

[Dogbert199]

Sorry about not posting lately. . . j13, thanks for staying on my case.

The good news from the doctor's visit was off set by bad news from one of those blood tests that didn't come in until later.

I'm scheduled to go back to see him this coming Monday (4/16/07) and will let you know how that goes.

Trying to move into one of the docs recommended plans managed to have me gain about five pounds over the last couple of weeks, so I've moved back into induction again. I have not regained the 15 pounds I've lost, but the scale's reading 5# more and I'm not going to wait for 5 to become 10 to become 20.

So I expect by Monday I should be back at 382.1 again.

I haven't posted because I wanted to come back and say I'm down to 370!

I'll be able to say that soon enough. In fact, I'm hoping to be at 375 by April 21. What's Apr 21?

The favorite nephew is coming to town for his birthday with his dad, his bro -- his mom's out of the country, so it's gonna be a fishing, shootin', guy's kinda weekend.

Last time I was 375 was before I was married (I married at 380) so I'm looking forward to shattering that. The doctor gave me an excuse to try and "improve" what I was doing because he was concerned of my protein/fat ratio.

So a little brown rice later I'm holding water weight; I can go back to spinach and broccoli easily enough.

Will keep y'all posted. . .

[Dogbert199]

It's Friday night. . . 8:15pm, haven't had dinner yet but I got on the scale.

386.2.

I'm confident on being back where I was two weeks ago on Monday.

Then the next target is the next 15, which would be 368.

[Dogbert199]

So we had the visit with the doc and we got the full lipid panel in.

Cholesterol was 191! After low carbing for the six weeks leading into the blood test.

HDL's were low, LDL's were borderline high, but not high.

The HDL thing kills me because I expected to see a number at least double what it was, but I'm not too far off in bringing it normal.

Triglycerides were at 84, so super happy there. . . he wants me to go on a Statin though. . . for an interesting reason.

So there's a family history of heart disease, and while I'm 20 years away from the age of heart attack in males in my family, because of the other stuff (hypertension, metabolic syndrome, etc) he wants me to ACT as if I've already had a heart attack.

Goal is to get LDL's under 70 (which is freaky low), but it's to keep me alive for a very long time.

Biggest blow was he wants me to consider never getting onto a judo mat again. . . said it's ultimately a decision I have to make but with the spinal injury, it's not worth it.

We'll see. . .

[Bat Spit]

Statins are a very bad thing. Just my opinion.

Before your dr. gets to excited about your LDL numbers, ask for the test that separates out the fluffy ones from the bb ones. Low carb tends to keep the LDL a little higher, but its the big fluffy non-risk elevating ones.

Once you've been strict low carbing for a while, you'll probably find that the other risk factors will go away. I had all of them when I started, and now the ONLY risk factor I still have is that I'm not thin yet.

Get another lipid panel in 6 mos. You'll see good things if you stay low carb.

[j13]

It's been nearly a month since Dogbert has posted, and while I hope he's still at least reading, and I hope he's still on plan, I have a bad feeling that he's not. And his PM box is full, so there's no way to contact him and find out.

At any rate, if he's not on plan, and he reads this, I hope he sees why it wasn't just a mango. And I hope maybe someone else on here can see the same - not about the specific incident, but about the behavior and the thought pattern. And I don't want anyone to see it out of spite, or to prove that I'm right (God damn, it would be my preference to be wrong), but to help us catch the things that stop our succeeding.

-j.

[Penweary]

WOW! I'm kinda new here, at least to posting regularly, this thread was an exciting read!

Thanks J, for keeping us on the straight and narrow. The sure path to success!

[Dogbert199]

Howdy y'all. .

I just got back from four weeks in Japan. . . so I've been outta town, to say the least.

Baby is almost walking, dear wife was able to come out on two weekends, and I got to see Aikido the way it was meant to be (around my work schedule).

I see I missed some fireworks while I was gone. . . hi j13! :-)

Um, it WAS just a mango. And it was just Lychee nuts. And it was a lot of bok choy. . .

Haven't lost any weight while I was there, and I got to have more than my share of seafood (no blowfish, looked especially poisonous), rice, and cabbage. The rice there is different. . . not just sushi rice, I mean something about the texture seemed different.

But I didn't regain all I'd lost either. I'm up about five pounds. . . I can live with it for 4 weeks overseas.

Now I'm back in Texas, and I'm back on steak and shrimp and tilapia. . . you know, the good stuff.

I didn't get to train because of the herniation, but I'm hoping to train someday soon.

The plan is to be at 369 by the time I head to Orlando for Star Wars weekend in June, so hope y'all stick around for the ride.

[Dogbert199]

Back for a day, succeeded for a day. Wife went to the doc, convinced her she needs to go on South Beach.

So tomorrow the whole house goes on South Beach, which is JUST fine with me. . . on track for my goal of being in the 370s by the Disney trip.

[Dogbert199]

Back and this time for good. . . won't be travelling any more for at least the next six months.

Miss Katie Belle will be turning one in about ten days. Next Friday, we're doing the party on the 21st.

Why am I back on this thread instead of starting over? Because I'm not starting over.

In fact, it's kinda neat that my blood work numbers from march are earlier in this thread. Turns out three months passed, doc had me redo bloodwork, and my LDL's are lower, my HDL's increased 15%, my triglycerides are awesome, and everything there is good.

Weight has been stable. Still at 386. Haven't gone back up at all, haven't gone down.

Turns out bloodwork did show a couple of deficiencies and even had him run an MRI to catch a possible brain tumor.

If y'all take a look at my latest pic, it's actually about a year old. . . it was the day Katie was born. She's the reason why I'm going to be in the 370's by next Friday, the reason why I'm writing now.

I don't care who reads it, but it serves as a record of this journey.

Will write soon, I have a mango to go eat ;-)

[Dogbert199]

For the record, this had 1868 views when i started reposting. . . oh, and Star Wars weekend was awesome. I fulfilled a promise that was hard to do.

If I can do that, weight loss is nothing. . . except for two errors.

1 - taking a 10 1/2 month old on an 18 hr, 1200 mile drive across America. . . Ryan does National Lampoon's Vacation
2 - I've been away from home for far too long lately; but now I'm back home. . . I forgot how much I designed my home to be the place I want to be.

oh well, night y'all.

[X-carber]

I can relate to your feelings about walking. Walking starts my day, and it ends my day, everyday. Eventhough it is a good way to keep track of what is working for you and what isn't by having a scale, I don't think it is what's important right now. What's important right now is to believe in what your doing, and believe that it is best for you. The scale is not going to wake you up in the morning to exercise or get you off the couch to walk to end your day. I believe that how you feel physical and mentally is what matters. How you feel when you have walked an extra mile that you didn't do the day before. When you jump out of bed to exercise knowing there was a time when that never would have happen. When you put on your clothes and they have loosened up on there grip. Those are the things that will help you stay accountable. I am glad you came back to LC, and I wish all the best.

[Dogbert199]

I agree completely.

The fact of the matter is that while my scale weight has been stable, I have been putting on muscle.

Mrs Riggs told me that my belly doesn't hang out like it used to a couple of months ago, and my arms are much more solid. I konw there's a transformation taking place, but I also know that the scale weight DOES matter.

Whether I'm 385 pounds of muscle or fat, it's still too dang much.

A hamburger patty, some egg beaters, a little chopped onion and tomato and we're good to go this morning. . . oh, and some queso fresco.

[Dogbert199]

Lunch was two fresh bison burger patties, and a bacon and cheese topped salad. . . rockin' and rollin'!

Someone emailed me about where I'm back from. Office had me travelling for three weeks doing installations and was at Disney for a 10 day trip. . . so that's all over now.

[j13]

Dogbert - you know I wish you the best, but isn't this what a journal's for? Your personal updates on what you had at each meal aren't really what the forum's supposed to be for...if everyone did it the topics that are of general interest would be squashed and constantly pushed off the page by each person's individual updates. The forum's for discussion of topics of common interest to people in our common boat mixed with the occasional thread encouraging someone for hitting milestone or for someone going through a personal rough patch to talk about it so that others might be able to shed light on their situation. It's not really for each person to delve into the minutiae of their journey...

Maybe you should reopen your journal and throw this stuff in there? Journals are great and very useful, and I'm sure people would visit and encourage you and track you there...

Good luck-

-j.

[Dogbert199]

Yeah, I guess I should open up a journal. I think I started one and a day later stopped using it. After all, this thread was supposed to document my one more shot.

Our nanny is loving the low carb bread I found. . . Nature's Own makes it a double fiber bread. 5g net carbs, 5g fiber. Awesome taste!

Hit the Bowflex last night. . . the rains we've been having in Texas have been awesome, like biblical proportions. . . I swear I saw animals walking two by two down the street. But I gotta figure out a way to get in more cardio.

[j13]

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?p=6755373#post6755373

There you go...you can also get there by hitting the journal button in one of your posts or the one in the "welcome" box at the right of your screen, above the green bar that's got your USER CP and such in it.

Good luck-

-j.

[Judynyc]

Yeah, I guess I should open up a journal. I think I started one and a day later stopped using it. After all, this thread was supposed to document my one more shot.

Our nanny is loving the low carb bread I found. . . Nature's Own makes it a double fiber bread. 5g net carbs, 5g fiber. Awesome taste!

Hit the Bowflex last night. . . the rains we've been having in Texas have been awesome, like biblical proportions. . . I swear I saw animals walking two by two down the street. But I gotta figure out a way to get in more cardio.


Ryan,
You already have a journal and and journal button in the bottom right hand corner of each of your posts. :idea:

I've tried that bread and it is good but it is still flour and I need to be very careful even if it is low carb. Because flour is a substance to me...a substance that I have and will abuse!! :idea:

Good Luck!

[katwoman]

Nature's Own makes it a double fiber bread. 5g net carbs, 5g fiber. Awesome taste!

the rains we've been having in Texas have been awesome, like biblical proportions. . . I swear I saw animals walking two by two down the street.

Oklahoma too--and Kansas--too strange. I bicycling between rains.