Whole food supps, and RDI, and questions...

[waywardsis]

Do you think that supplements derived from whole food/ natural sources are superior to others? Standard Process, for example?

Do you think synthetic vitamins are harmful? Does it depend on the dose? Are there situations where it's warranted to use them, esp. since they come in higher doses?

And what was the RDI based on? I assume synthetic vitamins - and likely animal testing? If we're consuming a low-carb, mainly whole foods diet, does the RDI apply?

[kebaldwin]

I do not like synthetic vitamins. Natural supplements can not be patented and are therefore commodities. So companies do research on how to get your body to absorb more of a vitamin / mineral -- or how to increase a chemical that the body produces from the vitamin / mineral you are being sold.

To see some of the research -- google many of these brand names

http://www.vitacost.com/company/index.cfm

The Recommended Daily Allowance (or whatever) is the minimal level you need to take per day -- or they have proved that bad things will happen to your health.

They are not optimal levels where good things start to happen to your health. Optimal levels can be 10 or 20 times the RDA.

[Nancy LC]

And what was the RDI based on? I assume synthetic vitamins - and likely animal testing? If we're consuming a low-carb, mainly whole foods diet, does the RDI apply?

I heard the RDA was based on information that came from Nazi concentration camps in part. At least, that's what I heard on a doctor's radio talk show years ago. They did a lot of gruesome tests on their inmates. :(

[waywardsis]

I've been researching supplements, and many whole food supps say that the amount of vitamins in them are less but that our bodies require less when they're coming from a whole food/natural source. ???? I tell ya, I've about had it. ;)

I'm looking at Dr.Ron's - he sounds good to me. No additives. I'm also looking at Udo's Choice stuff, mainly his greens (in place of a multi).

[Gostrydr]

Wayward..
don't believe that bunk..These companies are trying to rewrite science and the research that has been done on vitamins and minerals..it is all a remarkable sales campaign to differentiate themselves from other "synthetic" vitamin companies.

Stating that our bodies do not need high doses of vitamins and minerals is absolutely false.

Studies on Vitamin E show that 400 Iu's prevents oxidation in our arteries..1000Iu's works even better!

These company states that 72 mg of calcium is all that is needed and your body will absorb it like it is 1000 mgs..B.S

72 mgs is 72 mgs..period!

Plus USP vitamins and minerals are actually absorbed the same and even better than food!

Why? Because there are no proteins or natural inhibitors that the body has to contend with that are found in food.

And these formulas are yeast based and are actually fed USP vitamins and minerals, then dried and made into a supp..they claim this makes their supps a "living'' food supp.

Well have you seen a dried out ol' plant? Is that living thing of just a dead, old dried out plant?

Plus the cost..ay,yay,yay..and you have to take alot more tabs in some cases than another competitors product(and I am not talking about Centrum or One a days that are crap)

"Because of the space taken up by food materials, “whole-food-grown-type” nutrients require 4 to 12 times more tablets than USP-type nutrients. Because of the added cost of synthesis in laboratories, they cost 4 to 14 times more than USP-type nutrients. Considering the consistent absorption of USP-type nutrients, and the fact that they require less tablets while costing less, USP-type nutrients remain the standard for use in dietary supplements. USP-type vitamins and a healthy diet can work together to give you the best potential for your optimal long-term health."



Look I love for people to take a greens drink a day..there are too many great known and unknown compounds found in veggies ,greens and sprouts that promote good health

But don't be fooled by the "whole food" concentrate products saying that they are better absorbed and are superior products .This just simply is not the case

This is interesting as well


All Independently Published Studies Through-Out History Use USP-Type Nutrients

All of the over 200,000 independently published studies during the last sixty years that show the effectiveness of vitamins and minerals used USP-type nutrients supplemented at appropriate doses. Examples include:

Mothers who took 1200 mg or more of USP-type calcium carbonate who got consumed less than 600 mg of calcium from their daily diets had newborn babies with about 15 percent greater bone density than mothers who took less calcium. (38)

Senior women who were losing bone gained an average of 3.7 percent in their spine and 3 percent in their hips when they took 1000 mg of USP-type calcium carbonate per day over a two year period of time. They lost 3 percent of the bone density when they only got 683 mg food calcium per day. (39)

Senior women who took between 1000 mg and 5000 mg of USP-type Vitamin C had five percent greater bone density over a three year period of time than senior women who took 500 mg or less. (40)

200 mg of USP-type Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) per day reduced PMS symptoms in about 79 percent of the women in a study of 630 women, while no reduction was seen with women who took 40 mg of B6. (41)

Pregnant women who took 400 mcg of USP-type folic acid had babies with 40 percent less birth defects than women who only got folic acid from their food. (42)

Note: There are no independently published studies in peer-reviewed journals showing similar results with “whole-food-grown-type” nutrients. In fact, there are no independently published studies that look at “whole-food-grown-type” nutrients. The only seven studies that were located were sponsored by manufacturers of these products. These studies did not show significant advantages related to absorption for “whole-food-grown-type” nutrients.

Look I think these are high end products..price and the way they are manufactured and if you take a ton of them a day, but they are not better absorbed or "living" or the same as food.

[kebaldwin]

Can I ask:

how old are you?

how good are your eating habits (what percentage of your food is high glycemic foods)

Have you ever been significantly overweight or unhealthy?

How is your health now?

If you score well on these (I suspect you will) then all you may need is a good quality source of multi-vitamins and some fish oil (or for women a good mixture of good fats)

If you don't score well then I would recommend that you supplment with better supplements.

Back before I started low carbing - I would have never believed in Atkins diet, supplements, or anything else considered "alternative". Now, unless it was an emergency (and you better fix your health now before it becomes an emergency), I would recommend that you try "alternative" (i.e. natural) solutions first. Because once doctors start surgery or precription drugs -- it does not fix anything -- it just tries to minimize the symptoms.

[waywardsis]

I take CLO already. I basically want a quality multi, like you said, and also a mineral supp. Want my basics covered. Just you start reading and ay, the info is insane.

I'm 31, good eating habits (I'm here, after all ;)), never been obese. I'm gluten/casein intolerant so there *may* be some intestinal/GI healing to be done - I take l-glutamine daily, but I still have abdominal distention - and I am prone to allergies, so some immune support might be a good thing at least for now. My gums tend to bleed when I brush.

Gostrydr, thanks! I needed that.

So any recommendations, brand-wise, for multi's and/or minerals? Any to stay away from (besides Centrum etc)? Anything to look out for on labels? It's more difficult to be an informed vitamin/supplement consumer, it seems. Maybe it's just me!

And Nancy, what do you take?

[Zuleikaa]

I believe that natural source, not necessarily whole food, supplements are much better and less toxic than synthetic ones. Two cases in point, vitamins A and D. And although asorbic acid is great stuff, complex vitamin C, from food sources is better. Also vitamin E is better natural sourced than synthetic.

A good quality one a day is fine, a two a day is better. GNC is a good brand, you can compare it to those at swansonvitamins.com and vitacost.com for better values.

Then you just fill in the blanks with other necessary supplements.

[waywardsis]

So what do you look for on the label?

I know synthetic A is palmitate. I take CLO and am going to supplement D seperately (been lurking on your D thread, Zule!), and I know that D3 is naturally sourced.

What about others? The B's, C and E? How can I tell if it's synthetic or natural source? Is seeing "mixed tocopherols" for E an indication?

[gryfonclaw]

So what do you look for on the label?


What about others? The B's, C and E? How can I tell if it's synthetic or natural source? Is seeing "mixed tocopherols" for E an indication?


These are good questions, and am also curious to the answers. By the way, I have a question of my own for anyone that knows- is the Vitamin E oil that you can rub in your skin really absorbed or is that just bunk?

[Zuleikaa]

Vitamin E
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16774694&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12663289&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9804189&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9537614&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

A, D, and E are the major components to be careful of. Look for anything not made with soy. If natural E is packed with soy oil it can be practically useless to your body as the soy oil is so toxic to the vitamin E that it will use itself up in the capsule trying to neutralize the soy oil.

[ReginaW]

So what do you look for on the label?

I know synthetic A is palmitate. I take CLO and am going to supplement D seperately (been lurking on your D thread, Zule!), and I know that D3 is naturally sourced.

What about others? The B's, C and E? How can I tell if it's synthetic or natural source? Is seeing "mixed tocopherols" for E an indication?

What I usually recommend is first tracking your nutrient intake for a week and see if what (if anything) you're actually missing....fitday.com is free and easy to do this in (enter food daily, click "reports" and check daily or weekly average).

If you're near most things, a good (capsule, not brick type) multi that isn't MEGA dose should be fine as a safety net multiple vitamin for daily use.

Then, if you have specific things you want to target - say vitamin C or minerals....you can do that with supplements as desired.

One thing I do caution - do not exceed known UTL (upper tolerable limits) on some vitamins like A from supplements...(not talking food here).....over-doing vitamin A from supplements can have some negative effects (it raises cholesterol levels, specifically LDL, for example)....so familiarize yourself with UTL's and side effects to be cautious of so if you do experience something that is a side effect, you can reduce or eliminate the supplement first before thinking you have symptoms of a disease or something else wrong, ya know?

[ReginaW]

Vitamin E
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16774694&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12663289&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9804189&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=9537614&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

A, D, and E are the major components to be careful of. Look for anything not made with soy. If natural E is packed with soy oil it can be practically useless to your body as the soy oil is so toxic to the vitamin E that it will use itself up in the capsule trying to neutralize the soy oil.

Agree, agree, agree!

[Gostrydr]

Waywardsis,
Jarrow,Solaray,Natures Life,Supernutrtition,Nature's Way, Country Life, Twin Labs,Kal,Enzyamatic Therapy,Solgar and Country Life are good ones..and medium priced.

Solgar has a nice Vitamins Only formula ...you could always add singular minerals to the mix.