What supplements do I need?

[diemde]

I've been doing lc for awhile, got off track last year and regained, but am now back on track for life. I've been taking various supplements, but I still don't feel like I truly know what I need to take for long term optimal health. I'll be 51 in March and am beginning to realize just how important this is. I don't want to go into old age with a lot of medical issues. I didn't take vitamins routinely until starting on here a few years ago, so I feel like I'm probably deficient in some areas. I'm hoping you can make some recommendations.

Are there any supplement calculators/analyzers on the net that are any good? I've seen a few out there but it seems they are just too generic and only focus on the basics. Even Fitday just covers the basics. If nothing automated on the net, then is there a good book that helps you determine what you need? Looking more for a caculator type thing, rather than just a book that describes what supplements do. I can read what they do on the net, but am just having difficulty applying that to what I should take.

I recently switched my multi to the NSI NutriSlim Low Carb Dieter's Basic Multi-Vitamin. That seems like a good choice because it's targeted for this WOE. It's also reasonably priced (I can't justify the >$200 per month multi right now.)

I also take the following:
Omega 3-6-9 (I rarely eat fish)
Potassium - 99mg
chromium picolinate
CoQ10 (I just finished taking this for one month and am debating whether I really need it.)
Fiber - as needed
Oil of Oregano (just started this 2 weeks ago to see if it will help with a toenail problem)
Vitamin D3 (just started, 800 IU, I don't have obvious symptoms as noted in the Vitamin D challenge, but thought it might be worthwhile to add. I don't get much sun in the winter. When I finish this bottle, I'll get a higher dosage - what would you recommend?)

I've taken other supps off & on, like glucosamine, Cal/Mag, etc, but haven't been taking them lately. I get a lot of calcium in my diet, but probably should add the cal/mag back in. Because of my age and being post-menopausal, my Dr recommended 1500 mg per day.

I don't have any medical issues [knocks on wood], but am paying attention to my family's medical histories. In my immediate family (mom & sisters), there is diabetes, breast cancer and high blood pressure. I thought about taking resveratrol, but it seems risky with my family's breast cancer history.

I'm on information overload with the supps and could really use some advice. Thanks for your help.

[Gostrydr]

Actually, your multi looks pretty good!!

If you are getting enough calcium, I would opt to tsupplement with more Magnesium..perhaps 5oomgs 3x's a day and one of those before bed. Use Asporatate, Malate or an amino acid chelate.

How much of the oils are you taking? You should be trying for at least 5 grams a day of Omega 3's.

I also like to add Vit C to the equation..taken throughout the day. 1 gram at least 3x' s a day.

If you can find it, try Zinc Undecylenate for your toe nail fungus..it is the most potent antifungal/viral that you can find in the "natural" world. OOO is not even in the same ball park.

All in all your supps look good...

[diemde]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm really good about taking things in the morning, but tend to forget throughout the day. I'm working on it, though. I bought one of those pill boxes to help, but I still forget to go check the pill box. :lol:

So, for the oils, I always get one 1200mg in the morning, and try to take 1 or 2 more during the day. Would it be ok to take more in the morning or do they really need to be spread throughout the day?

[Gostrydr]

I would definitely spread them out..some with each meal, they can help aid in the absorption of vitamins and minerals.

so try and take at least 6 of them puppies a day!

[kebaldwin]

NSI NutriSlim Low Carb Dieter's Basic Multi-Vitamin is not bad -- but try the synergy for women if you can afford it. It is like $40 per month

how much per day of the omega 3-6-9? You can probably take like 4 grams per day

potassium - 99mg is nothing -- the RDA is like 3,500 (or 35 of those tablets). I recommend that you go to your grocery store and buy salt substitute - main ingredient should be potassium

How much chromium per day? Add the amount in your multi-vitamin plus the other supplements

CoQ10 is very good - but expense. DO you need it? No one can say for sure. BUt people that take it are healthier than people that do not

For diabetes - low carb diet, supplements, (both of which you are already doing) plus exercise will roll some of that back

For caner - usually recommend low carb diet and as many antioxidant supplements that you can

For high blood pressure - low carb diet and most of the supplements you are already taking, exercise


Yes, try to take half of your vitamins after breakfast and half after dinner

[diemde]

potassium - 99mg is nothing -- the RDA is like 3,500 (or 35 of those tablets). I recommend that you go to your grocery store and buy salt substitute - main ingredient should be potassium

How much chromium per day? Add the amount in your multi-vitamin plus the other supplements

Thanks so much for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

On the potassium, the 99mg per day is enough to stop having muscle cramps. There is also another 10 mg in the multi. I guess I didn't realize that the RDA was so high. I do have the salt substitute, but I normally don't use much. I stopped using salt when I was 12 and very rarely add it to foods I cook now. I'll try to increase my usage of the salt sub.

I am currently getting 600 mcg of chromium. Is that enough? The chromium pills are 400 mcg and then an additional 200 mcg in the lc multi.

I had looked at the women's synergy multi, but thought maybe the one targeted for this WOE would be better. This is where the analysis of what I really need comes into play. The NSI lc multi includes more vitamin A for example, but the synergy has more calcium. Not knowing what I really need makes it hard to compare the 2 multis.

Gostrydr, I bought the CVS brand of antifungal yesterday, which indicates Undecylenate as the ingredient (without the word zinc in front). I tried to find out on the net if that means it's zinc or not, but couldn't determine. Is it the same?

I also went ahead and bought the vitamin C and more CoQ10.
Thanks again for your help.

[kebaldwin]

On the potassium, the 99mg per day is enough to stop having muscle cramps. There is also another 10 mg in the multi. I guess I didn't realize that the RDA was so high. I do have the salt substitute, but I normally don't use much. I stopped using salt when I was 12 and very rarely add it to foods I cook now. I'll try to increase my usage of the salt sub.

Assuming that you will still be getting enough sodium on this diet (it is in almost all processed foods) then adding a lot more potassium is a good idea. If you are not eating any processed foods -- then you may want to add some salt to your diet as well.

Salt is not as evil as many people think. It is required. The problem with salt in America -- is most people are so out of wack in their nutrition - that they get more salt than anything else. If they would just bring everything else up to the optimal levels -- they would be much better off.

Seems like american "health experts" want to cut the salt -- instead of bringing everything else up to the salt levels.

Your body wants a balance.

Potassium is great for you - especially blood pressure.

http://www.vitacost.com/articleResults.aspx?Ntk=articles&ss=1&Ntt=potassium

I am currently getting 600 mcg of chromium. Is that enough?

That amount is probably perfect.

I had looked at the women's synergy multi, but thought maybe the one targeted for this WOE would be better. This is where the analysis of what I really need comes into play. The NSI lc multi includes more vitamin A for example, but the synergy has more calcium. Not knowing what I really need makes it hard to compare the 2 multis.

The LC version is not bad -- but the synergy women's is better. Don't throw the LC version away -- just next time you order - order the women's instead. I think that the women's has a lot more cartenoids(?) that help boost vitamin A. YOu can also take more fish oil to boost natural vitamin A and vitamin D if you want.

[Gostrydr]

There are usually 2 forms of Undecylenate..Calcium and Zinc. Both are excellent ,but the Zinc is a little more bioavailable.

Think of natural Desenex..it is from castor beans and is also made in our sweat glands.

Nothing is comparable in regards to treating candida,thrush,toenail fungus or for keeping any type of oppurtunistic critters at bay.

Also for a topical for your toe nail fungus try soaking your feet in Pau D Arco. Buy it in bulk, steep it and soak your feet in it.

I can't recall how much or for how long, but I'm sure if your searched around you could find the steps.

We had a health food store out in Sun City(retirement community) and just about everyone out there had toe nail fungus LOL.

This seemed to work pretty well.

[diemde]

Yeah, I stopped using salt because I was getting so much of it with my mother's cooking way back when. She put salt in everything, regardless of whether it needed it or not. Today, I use it as I would any other spice, targeted for the flavor I'm trying to achieve in cooking. Back when I was logging every morsel I ate on fitday, I could tell I was getting enough of it without adding any more!

Thanks for the links to vitacost. They seem to have a lot of good info available.

There definitely is an art to figuring out the supplements. I appreciate your guidance!

[diemde]

Thanks for the info on the undecylenate. I hadn't heard of it before, so this is very helpful.

I love to soak my feet, so I'll look for the Pau D Arco, too. I have one of those Dr Scholls feet soaker thingies, so I bet that will work great in it.

Thanks again!

[Zuleikaa]

How much CoQ10 are you taking? If it's less than 100 mg a day, it's not enough at your age

I don't like chromium picolinate; I prefer GTF chromium.

Definitely more magnesium is needed. The calcium can stay the same. They've found that calcium supplementation is less important for building bones than having adequate vitamin D3 and magnesium; they insure calcium utilization thus less calcium is needed. That's why when starting vitamin D therapy the calcium supplementation level is high but later drops as the deficiency is filled. It's also why the ratio of cal to mag decreases from 2:1 to 1:1 over time.

And you already know what I'm going to say about the vitamin D. You're taking much too little.

One of the problems with people taking certain supplements is they don't take enough. It's important to find the appropriate, affordable mix of supplements for a life-long supplement program. Which doesn't mean that the mix/amounts needed might not change.

Re the women's synergy...JMO, I don't believe caratenoids are particularly useful for vitamin A generation. I would rather see you with a multi that gets it's vitamin A from fish liver. That vitamin A is much better utilized by the body.

Concerning OOO for toenail problems. It will work but it takes months of relatively high amounts. That doesn't mean that OOO isn't also benefical in myriad other ways.

[diemde]

With the first bottle of CoQ10, I was taking just one 50mg pill per day. I just bought another bottle yesterday. So I should take 2 per day? Then I can see about getting a bigger dosage when this bottle is gone. How much is optimal?

Yeah, I had seen your posts about the chromium GTF. I plan to switch once I run out of this bottle, but these don't seem to cause a problem for now.

I am taking 2 of the D3 pills, so that's 800 IU, then there is 700 IU in the multi for a total of 1500 IU. I can buy a bigger dosage when these run out. I'll go back and re-read your D3 challenge post, but what would you suggest my ultimate long term amount would be (not the "correcting for deficiency" amount)?
One of the problems with people taking certain supplements is they don't take enough. It's important to find the appropriate, affordable mix of supplements for a life-long supplement program. Which doesn't mean that the mix/amounts needed might not change.
This is where my frustration is... I know I need some of these, but just how do I really determine how much of each one and the right combination? I am an analytic type person, so I do try to read and study, but even then I don't know what's right for me. I suspect that's why a lot of people just take a multi and hope for the best.

Thanks!

[Zuleikaa]

With the first bottle of CoQ10, I was taking just one 50mg pill per day. I just bought another bottle yesterday. So I should take 2 per day? Then I can see about getting a bigger dosage when this bottle is gone. How much is optimal?Keep to the 50 mg and take it twice a day. I take 100 mg twice a day but my family has a history of heart disease and I'm African American.

I am taking 2 of the D3 pills, so that's 800 IU, then there is 700 IU in the multi for a total of 1500 IU. I can buy a bigger dosage when these run out. I'll go back and re-read your D3 challenge post, but what would you suggest my ultimate long term amount would be (not the "correcting for deficiency" amount)?Living in Ohio, that would be 7-10k during the winter and 2k during the summer for a normal weight individual and 2-3 times that for someone who's obese.


This is where my frustration is... I know I need some of these, but just how do I really determine how much of each one and the right combination? I am an analytic type person, so I do try to read and study, but even then I don't know what's right for me. I suspect that's why a lot of people just take a multi and hope for the best.

Thanks! I understand your frustration. I do a lot of research in original studies and Entrez PubMed plus research on the web and I'm still learning more and probably still don't have the complete picture/knowledge I need.

It requires a practice and research to learn how to read some of these reports and how supplements interact with each other and what amounts are optimum. And Obese people need a lot more of particular nutrients than average size people. An in vitamin D's case there are a lot of variables that impact the dose needed. For all I know it's the case of dosing in other nutrients as well.

But be assures you are doing something positive for your health by supplementing. I've been supplementings for over 20 years now and though I haven't found the secret to consistent, permanent weight loss for me yet I don't have any other health problems related to weight/diet except for my knees which happened in an accident.

[diemde]

Thanks Zuleikaa. That's a lot of D3. I guess I really need to sit down and add all this up to see how much I can afford. I can pay now with supps or pay later with med bills. I'd rather pay now. :D

Thanks for everyone's help!

[PS Diva]

Re the women's synergy...JMO, I don't believe caratenoids are particularly useful for vitamin A generation. I would rather see you with a multi that gets it's vitamin A from fish liver. That vitamin A is much better utilized by the body.
Zuleikaa, I always thought that beta carotene was a relatrively safe way to get your vitamin A. Do you have objections to it other than thinking A from fish liver is more bio available?

[Zuleikaa]

Zuleikaa, I always thought that beta carotene was a relatrively safe way to get your vitamin A. Do you have objections to it other than thinking A from fish liver is more bio available?I think beta carotene is a scam. When man-made vitamin A showed how toxic it was the blame was put on natural vitamin A as well because they carried the same name (that wouldn't happen nowadays), so they looked for a safer alternative and found betacarotene. Beta carotene is a precursor to vitamin A that may be converted to vitamin A in the body at a 12:1 or 21:1 ratio if all the stars are aligned and an optimum situation exists, which rarely happens.
http://www.indiatogether.org/reports/goldenrice/vitaminA2.htm There are several factors affecting the bioavailability of provitamin A compounds. The pro-vitamin A in ripe coloured fruits and cooked yellow tubers is converted to vitamin A more efficiently than from green leafy vegetables . Nutritional deficiencies such as of zinc, protein and fat/oil can limit the bioavailability. Hence, a balanced and diverse diet is of importance in maintaining the human body's capability to absorb provitamin A and convert it to vitamin A.

Until recently, 6 micrograms of beta-carotene was assumed to equate to 1 microgram of vitamin A when converted in the human body. However, this ratio is now thought to be an overestimate of the production of vitamin A from provitamin A. The Institute of Medicine of the US National Academy of Sciences concluded in January 2001 that the amount of provitamin A required to create one unit of vitamin A is twice the amount thought previously . According to this new recommendation, 12 micrograms of ingested beta-carotene are required to produce 1 microgram of vitamin A. It has even been suggested that an even lower conversion rate of 21 micrograms beta-carotene to 1 microgram of vitamin A may be more appropriate.
I thought this was interesting. Especially since some people have been telling me and my daughter that we're poisoning the children by giving them cod liver oil.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:DA4EmMKRm0wJ:nourishingourchildren.org/offerings/documents/slide-betacarotene.pdf+%22beta+carotene%22+%22vs+%22vitamin+A%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us
So while it is true that humans can convert some of the carotenes in their food into vitamin A, many conditions interfere with this conversion. And babies and children do not make this conversion at all. You can give the baby carrot juice until he turns orange --and he will turn orange -- but he will not make this conversion. This is why babies and growing children right up to age 18 need more vitamin A in their diet as a function of bodyweight than adults do. You can give a baby as much or more cod liver oil on a body-weight basis as an adult. It is fine because they really need that vitamin A. The books on infant feeding back in the 1930s and 1940s recommended 2 teaspoons of cod liver oil per day for infants over 3 months old.

[PS Diva]

I think beta carotene is a scam. Don't beat around the bush!! :lol: Okay, I'm convinced. No more beta carotene. Is there a chemical name for A that comes from fish livers, or do I just look for the label to say "from fish livers?" This concerns me because I have been getting my Omega 3s from Coromega which is fish oil that doesn't have vitamin A. I am allergic to some fish, and have found I tolerate this very well. Unfortunately I don't think labels are going to tell me WHICH fish their vitamin A comes from. Now I guess I have to do some more trial and error... Maybe I won't have a problem with it at all. I don't know.

[Zuleikaa]

Is there a chemical name for A that comes from fish livers, or do I just look for the label to say "from fish livers?" Look for the label to say (from fish liver). Generally you can get vitamin A from gelcaps or cod liver oil. Just make sure all the vitamin A says (from fish liver) as some, even in cod liver oil, have man-made vitamin A.

[kebaldwin]

Hey - we found something that we disagree on!

I think that carotenoids are very helpful and beneficial to the body -- and provide excellent health benefits

http://www.vitacost.com/articleResults.aspx?Ntk=articles&ss=1&Ntt=carotenoids

http://www.worldhealth.net/p/aadr-carotenoid.html

http://search.lef.org/search/default.aspx?s=1&QUERY=carotenoid

http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl?index=301821&calln=2&lastq=&sortsel=rel&psel=ealert&opt=ANY&query=carotenoid

http://www.jonbarron.org/search/search_results.php?cx=011341685810792984448%3Acxqelzl-muq&q=carotenoid&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A11#747

I thought carotenoids are the main reason we are suppose to eat veggies?

[Zuleikaa]

Hey - we found something that we disagree on!

I think that carotenoids are very helpful and beneficial to the body -- and provide excellent health benefits

http://www.vitacost.com/articleResults.aspx?Ntk=articles&ss=1&Ntt=carotenoids

http://www.worldhealth.net/p/aadr-carotenoid.html

http://search.lef.org/search/default.aspx?s=1&QUERY=carotenoid

http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl?index=301821&calln=2&lastq=&sortsel=rel&psel=ealert&opt=ANY&query=carotenoid
http://www.jonbarron.org/search/search_results.php?cx=011341685810792984448%3Acxqelzl-muq&q=carotenoid&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A11#747

I thought carotenoids are the main reason we are suppose to eat veggies?Oh, I think carotenoids are very helpful and beneficial to the body. I said I think that saying beta carotene is a good source of vitamin A is a scam.

This explains the problem.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15294680&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

and here
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12951899&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum

And interesting that there are now man-made carotenes. Something else to watch for.

carotenoid benefits outside of vitamin A:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14704330&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum

[kebaldwin]

Durn -- I was hoping we got to scrap ;-)

Perhaps there is more than one version / form of vitamin A ? They are discovering numerous forms of most other vitamins.

Since vitamin A is suppose to be the vitamin for eye sight ... and carotenoids have shown very impressive results at improving eye sight ... perhaps carotenoids are not converted to the form of Vitamin A that is measurable -- but another form that still provides numerous benefits.

I would guess that forms of vitamin A from fish would have to be different from the forms of vitamin A converted from carotenoids (plants)?

[Zuleikaa]

Durn -- I was hoping we got to scrap ;-)

Perhaps there is more than one version / form of vitamin A ? They are discovering numerous forms of most other vitamins.

Since vitamin A is suppose to be the vitamin for eye sight ... and carotenoids have shown very impressive results at improving eye sight ... perhaps carotenoids are not converted to the form of Vitamin A that is measurable -- but another form that still provides numerous benefits.

I would guess that forms of vitamin A from fish would have to be different from the forms of vitamin A converted from carotenoids (plants)?Yeah, they're not as effective but if they get converted they are about the same. It's just that the beta carotene from leafy greens hardly gets converted at all.

When I read in one of the links about the baby turning orange but getting no vitamin A I laughed. I've seen that in adults.