Cousins

[Richard Na]

I have a hunch that, at one time, we had a lot more hominid
cousins that we do now. And now, they're all gone. Richard
Nacamuli Richard L. Nacamuli

[Day Brown]

On Jan 30, 4:44 pm, richard.nacam...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a hunch that, at one time, we had a lot more hominid
> cousins that we do now. And now, they're all gone.
No egzactly. Turns out, there is NO MOMENT OF CONCEPTION, but
a period of time during which sometimes more than one sperm
enters. If both are XX or YY, nobody notices the diff. But if
one of each the result is someone who is XXY, ala known as
hermaphroditic.

Its a lot more common that people know. most often there is no
obvious external sign. Genetics is a crap shoot. But whatever
chromomes, the DNA dont zip together like a new jacket, but
more like an old one. There are loops that hang out that get
joined with snippets of DNA from whatever source that matches
well enough.

The reported different count in Neanderthals or other
hominids... makes no diff. Haplotypes will match up anyway.
While any given individual has only one mother, there may be
more than one father. So, when both Homo Erectus, Homo
Neanderthalis, or whatever and Homo sapiens all deposit sperm,
the sperm wars begin, and the hybridization process becomes
gonzo more difficult to analyze.

The critical factor really, was not the Y but the X. Sykes,
"The Seven Daughters of Eve" shows that there are only seven
Native European mtDNA lines. Africa has 160 or so, scores in
other gene pools, even the relatively isolated Australian
natives. Why only 7? Well, 9, if you count a couple mtDNA
lines found only in Finland.

Well, lookit african women. wider hips, easier delivery of
newborns. During the hybridization process the HNS females had
problems and didnt stay in the gene pools. Neither did most of
the Semetic/African lines that came into Europe. Only a few
had pelvises flexible enough to handle the diversity that
hybridization produces.

[Rmacfarl]

On Feb 2, 2:08 pm, "Jois" <firstj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Day Brown" <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote in message
...
> And the frosting on the cake is this (oh, oh) macro looking
> paragraph that is just as incorrect now as it was when Ms
> Day dropped it into SAP the first time. Did you meet the guy
> that used to come in here - closing his eyes and singing,
> "La, la, la?" Or did he have his fingers in his ears? Tough
> to tell, he may have been a product of the hybridization
> process.
>

Maybe Day saw the subject line as a mating call, d'ya
reckon? ...

Ross Macfarlane :-)

[Jois]

"rmacfarl" <rmacfarl@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:1170397559.301249.210920@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 2, 2:08 pm, "Jois" <firstj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Day Brown" <daybr...@hughes.net> wrote in message
> ...
>> And the frosting on the cake is this (oh, oh) macro looking
>> paragraph that is just as incorrect now as it was when Ms
>> Day dropped it into SAP the first time. Did you meet the
>> guy that used to come in here - closing his eyes and
>> singing, "La, la, la?" Or did he have his fingers in his
>> ears? Tough to tell, he may have been a product of the
>> hybridization process.
>>
>
> Maybe Day saw the subject line as a mating call, d'ya
> reckon? ...
>
> Ross Macfarlane :-)
>

Gosh, didn't think of that. And I read all the "You might be a
red-neck..." publications I can find.

Jois

[Jois]

Anne! Anne! Calling Anne!

"Day Brown" <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote in message
news:1170554556.885178.130000@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
> Inasmuch as I'm a dude, I'm not one of those making
> unsubstantiated assumptions.
>
> And to stay on thread, Stuart Kauffman, The Origins of
> Order, goes to some length showing how small isolated
> populations produce lots of genetic diversity. Given the
> paucity of hominid remians, the principle would apply.
>
> He also notes how, is a set is isolated, but then comes in
> contact with a large population, whatever mutations may have
> evolved, gets washed out.
>
> One example that comes to mind was a woman's body,
> remarkably well preserved in a mysterious fluid, found in NE
> China, had AB blood. Which is Native European. But the
> woman, in all other respects looked completely Chinese.
>
> Its only been since the eolithic that there were any large
> populations that would have washed out mutations. Prior to
> that, all mixing would have been among small tribes or
> villages where the better adapted mutations would have been
> sustained, and where the diversity of ecosystems would have
> made a diff.
>
> The usual response of the alpha males to the arrival of any
> strange male was to kill him. The usual response of
> matriarchic tribes would have been to consider keeping him
> around if he showed any promise. The usual response to
> either on meeting a strange female would be to keep her,
> adding her to the harem of the former, where she would be
> bred. With matriarchies, they commonly had herbal birth
> control, and would await breeding her pending an assessment
> of her talent and personality. Matriarchies were far less
> interested in breeding airheads who would require more case
> management.
>
> Back when there were still Homo Erectus and Homo
> Neanderthalis, groups were smaller in number and more widely
> dispersed as well as more obviously suffering from
> inbreeding, and thus more accepting of any new blood of
> either sex.
>
> Later on, when regions that had enough tribes to fill up an
> ecosystem, as LeBlanc shows in "Constant Battles", there was
> chronic warfare in which any novel males showing up would
> have been killed. But the violence level eventually gets to
> the point where populations are devastated. Its just to
> dangerous to go foraging, and tribal territories shrink to
> an absolute minimum, with a consequent drop in the birth
> rate, less inter-tribal exchange of women, worse inbreeding,
> and sometimes the total collapse with some tribes going
> extinct.
>
> The more densely populated regions also suffered period
> episodes of pandemic. So- when the number of survivors was
> small enough, any new blood of either sex would be admitted
> into a tribe. Which relieved some of the inbreeding
> problems, an increase in population, and then more warfare
> as the numbers again exceeded the carrying capacity of the
> ecosystem.
>
> Gibbon kinda picks up on this in The Decline and Fall of The
> Roman empire, in how waves of barbarians would attack the
> frontiers until the legions came in and practiced a scorched
> earth policy beyond the borders they wanted to defend. After
> the genocide, small groups would again infiltrate the area,
> and be made up of exiles or survivors who'd been driven out
> by one barbarian tribe or other. One tribe he mentions, the
> "allmanni" were consciously aware of this, and was made up
> entirely of exiles or refugees from other tribes, with a
> standard policy of accepting anyone who cared to join them.
>
> I expect that these cycles of violence went on as soon as
> hominids got to the point of filling up an ecosystem, and
> that after the carnage, the few survivors would not have
> been so picky about accepting other hominid lines into their
> tribes. So, of course, hybridization would have been tried
> between the Neanderthal, Homo Erectus, or whatever other
> hominid lines were about, and from what we now know about
> conception and DNA, that would have produced some successful
> cross breeding. But eventually, Homo sapiens became the mass
> popuation which appeared to have washed out all other
> earlier strains. However, as with the Chinese body, there
> remain some traits among extant populations in some regions
> that reflect the hybridization process.