Body Perception of Health/Attraction

[capo]

I'd like to make a post asking what other low carbers, and visitors, think they should look like.

What is healthy? What is normal to look like (as a woman, and as a man)?

Aren't women supposed to have a higher body fat percentage than men?

Feel free to provide pictures of what you think a woman/man's body is supposed to look like.

There are days where I wish I was one of those ectomorph body types that can't gain fat/or muscle no matter what I do, BTW, I'm a mesomorph I think. I wish I was effortlessly thin and didn't have to make an effort to look good in the morning; I think I only started trying on two or three shirts/pants on when I started to gain a little pudge and was made aware of it by a fellow peer (girl on my bus who I'll never see again, but nontheless really affected me when she poked my pudge, lol).

My mom has asked me "Don't you know what a woman is supposed to look like? What is feminine, and your own perception of beauty?" But honestly, I don't have a perception of beauty other than perceiving what I'm attracted to. I'm not attracted to myself; but that doesn't make me unattractive. I feel that by my eating a high fat/protein, low carb diet, I'm only stalling the inevitable of being a fat woman (either attributed to future pregnancy, menopause, or who knows what).

I really don't want to get fatter, but it seems that's the way nature 'intended' for it to be.

PS, most women envy someone who is lean; skinny is beauty in their perception.

[DaisyGreen]

This is quite a question. I see you are speaking of physical beauty. I'd be lying to say that I don't see physical features and have a tendancy to like features of a person. With that said, I can honestly say that as time has passed, I have learnt to rely to very little upon what a person looks like. I can tell you that THE most beautiful woman I have ever seen was my Grandmother. She was heavy all of her life. Died heavy. Died beautiful. Let me think of a few things that I percieve as beauty.
How my Dad looks while he's fishing or gardening. I have him memorized. Its his element and one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.
How my husband acted so emotionally as our children were born.
My son who cannot walk past a dandelion without picking it and running to me to present it with new enthusiam each time and a huge grin.
The feel of soft grass on a spring day under my barefeet.
The sound of rain as I first wake in the morning, making me stall and watch out the window for a while as it drips down the window.
The way my daughters sound laying in bed giggling and whispering, knowing they are suppose to be sleeping.
I'm sure at your age, it concerns you a lot. Obviously, weight is of a concern to me. However, health has become my major motivator. Life, just being thin enough to live well and love life is what I want. I wouldn't mind my husband giving me a look like he used to, but honestly, its not as important to me as overall wellness.
I went through surgical menopause at the age of 28. I do think it has changed the way I look at life. I feel much older in a younger body. So maybe that's why I don't percieve beauty the way a lot of women my age do. (I'm 32 now)
I see a girl like yourself at the weight you are, worrying over a little pudge and already battling, and I do think its pety to be honest. It seems like such a waste of good, young energy.

[lilli]

What is healthy? What is normal to look like (as a woman, and as a man)?

Aren't women supposed to have a higher body fat percentage than men?

My mom has asked me "Don't you know what a woman is supposed to look like? What is feminine, and your own perception of beauty?"

PS, most women envy someone who is lean; skinny is beauty in their perception.
Hmmm. Personally, i think people should look like who they are, and that means inside and out combined. Ideally, bodyfat wise, it would be great if everyone was at their internal set weight point (cuz we have one that is right for us). Unfortuantely, that's not often the case in this country. I think people who look healthy (like they eat healthy and get exercise) are "normal". This includes a huge range of fat%, because everybodys body type and lifestyle are different, and those height/ weight charts are crap.
Yes, women are (generally) supposed to have a little more padding than men. Most of our fattiest areas (breasts, hips, stomache,) have to do with childbearing. It's natural. Our bodies are geared to have children, and the fat is SUPPOSED to be in those areas.

Bodywise-- I think a bit of a curve on a woman (large breasts, small waist,) is attractive, which is good, cuz that's how I am. Something i find unnattractive and somewhat disturbing is the 2 extremes- very obese people, and very thin. Neither of these are healthy, in any way, and it's hard for me to be comfortable with these outward appearances. But really, when i see people comfortable in their own skin, who don't look down on other people because of their appearance (fatter, skinnier, whatever,), and who express their inner being through their outer presentation and demeanor, i think they are truly attractive. I am highly unnattracted to people who are bitches, mean, and think they are superior- no matter what size they are. I believe these qualities (and the good ones, too) can very easily shine through in the way a person looks- and are much more telling than outer appearance alone.

I don't think that most women naturally envy leaner women. I think the super-skinny ideal is a media construction, and that the way it is pushed at us from every angle, every moment of the day, is highly destructive. Destructive to women's minds, and femininity, and life in general, and needs to stop.

By the way, about the inevitable-ness of becoming a fat woman---a little fat is fine, but with exercise (especially weight training) your body can be its best, always. Nobody has to be resigned to be unhealthy and unfit. It pains me when i see older women who are unfit when, if they just picked up some weights a couple times a week, many health problems could have been avoided.

[kebaldwin]

I am old fashioned.

I think that men should be muscular. I do not subscribe to the thought that some have that men should look like women.

I think that women should be curvy. Classic Hourglass figure. Not fat. Not anorexic -- anorexic is not curvy -- it is boney. Boney is as much a turn off as fat.

Women should have more fat than men. It helps with the curves. Women can be curvey - with some fat - but workout and the fat and muscle in the right proportions and right places.

I think it has some subliminal thought as "healthy" appearance. As in -- the healthier that some person looks -- the more attractive they are.

[cs_carver]

Aren't women supposed to have a higher body fat percentage than men?

Yes. Women at 14% bodyfat or less have to work like dogs to keep it that way. We need much more fat to sustain menstruation and healthy pregnancies, and we mess with those cycles at the risk of harming longer-term health. It's not nice to fool Mother Nature, although you appear to be too young to remember those commercials.

It's one thing to be an Olympic-class athlete and to be making body-weight decisions in favor of some massive temporary goal. It's another to think that's the ideal for most of us, without realizing the effort involved and the potential consequences. A bit off-thread, but I notice that Dorothy Hamill is now advertizing arthritis meds... what are some of the others going to be shilling for when they get older??

I feel that by my eating a high fat/protein, low carb diet, I'm only stalling the inevitable of being a fat woman (either attributed to future pregnancy, menopause, or who knows what).

I don't think we really know much at all about what is "inevitable." We are in the middle of a massive cultural experiment with diet and exercise and food choices; we have made huge shifts in the content of what we eat, and lots of people have succumbed. We are beginning to learn what the consequences are. Agreed, women across time have gained weight with pregnancy and often with menopause, but we are only now coming to understand the physiology behind that. I don't think it's "inevitable" by any means.

I don't really don't want to get fatter, but it seems that's the way nature 'intended' for it to be.

Yup. It is. Nature intended for us to survive famines and ice ages and to be able to reproduce in the absence of plentiful food. Nature has designed us to survive, and for almost all of recorded (and pre-!) history, that has meant stashing every available mouthful of surplus food as fat. It is only in VERY recent times that food has been sufficiently plentiful to allow us to gain fat faster than we'd burn it off finding more, or getting through a hard winter or drought.

So we have to use our intellects instead of our instincts, because our instincts have been designed to support weight gain. But that's why we think humans are different from other mammals; we have intellects to use.

PS, most women envy someone who is lean; skinny is beauty in their perception.

Quite a few women, particularly those who are older, have learned that envy is a waste of time and energy. While I sometimes wish I had a different body, I believe that the issues and challenges of the body I haul around the planet (and vice versa) are mine to face. If I had someone else's body, I'd have to have their challenges, too, and most of them I don't want. Certainly, I don't want to be "thinner" if it means I have to smoke again, and risk all the garbage that comes with being a smoker.

[j13]

Boney is as much a turn off as fat.

QFT. Women need to understand this. Anorexic-looking women are not appealing. Sure, there are men who find them appealing, but they are in the vast minority, just as "chubby chasers" are in the vast minority.

Some women are attractive heavy. Some are attractive thin. It depends on each person's individual build. One way or another, women need to STOP with the anorexic look. The only men who seem to find this attractive are the fashion designers (who, in large part, are not straight men) - which is why it drives me nuts that this trend always gets hung on being a consequence of the supposed tyranny of men. Like on that show Project Runway - I and any guy I know who's seen it (who will admit to having watched it... :) ) always talk about how the models are unappealingly skinny. It's ridiculous.

-j.

[rachelratz]

Morbidly fat is just as unattractive as ultra skinny. You can't generalize about fashion designers, assuming they are gay. The last winner of Project Runway was not gay.

It's much harder to lose and maintain weight if you're a women, because you have to keep some fat in order to function as a women. As far as diets go men have it a little easier. Easier to lose and maintain weight loss

[liddie01]

i actually look best near the top of the weight range for my height, if i drop below 150 I look sickly and gaunt, and people ask me if i have seen a doctor all the time, right now at 170 i get complements, asked out lots, and look good.

[j13]

You can't generalize about fashion designers, assuming they are gay. The last winner of Project Runway was not gay.

No, but both of the other winners were, and nearly all the other male designers in the history of the show have been, and the other men who are regulars on the show are, etc. You can't be serious that that's not a valid generalization. I'm as gay-friendly as they come - I've lived with gay guys, dated bisexual women, I have great friends who are gay, etc. Just because I'm straight and making that generalization doesn't mean that it's an invalid generalization, or further that I mean any malice by it. I said

fashion designers (who, in large part, are not straight men)

Not that "all" fashion designers are gay - "in large part." Which is undeniably true - and, incidentally, not a bad thing. My only point is that the current trend in fashion runs contrary to the tastes of many - if not most - straight men, and if you're interested in what straight men find attractive, perhaps what fashion designers are implying is not in line with those tastes.

-j.

[rachelratz]

There have been many women designers starting with Coco Chenel. She got women out of corsets. (it had to take a women to do that). This first winner of project runway was a women. The runway models are ultra thin for a good reason. Clothes should look like they're on a hanger. Underwear models are bigger, but still very slender. Men find that very attractive, because the arms and legs are slimmer, the male eye goes to the breasts and hips. It's safe to say men like that sort of thing...just don't like the fat arms and legs, and belly. I'm about the size of an average model, just 7 inches shorter, so I feel I'm about right.

Sometimes I get backlash thrown at me. Because I am thin and have been for a long time, people assume I have an eating disorder. So it cuts both ways.

[PS Diva]

I find health attractive. Anybody who seems strong and fit and has a healthy glow, male or female, is attractive. I don't mean to be unkind to anyone who isn't healthy, it is just that I have asked myself this question before when I have noted very different looking body types and found them all attractive. I wondered what the common denominator was, and health is what I came up with.

[shopgirl28]

QFT. Women need to understand this. Anorexic-looking women are not appealing. Sure, there are men who find them appealing, but they are in the vast minority, just as "chubby chasers" are in the vast minority.

Some women are attractive heavy. Some are attractive thin. It depends on each person's individual build. One way or another, women need to STOP with the anorexic look. The only men who seem to find this attractive are the fashion designers (who, in large part, are not straight men) - which is why it drives me nuts that this trend always gets hung on being a consequence of the supposed tyranny of men. Like on that show Project Runway - I and any guy I know who's seen it (who will admit to having watched it... :) ) always talk about how the models are unappealingly skinny. It's ridiculous.

-j.

Funny thing here is that I think the boney look appeals to women more than men. Now I'm NOT speaking for all women, mainly girls from 15-22 that idolize that boney thin look. Many people I have talked to about this (in my support groups) say that they don't care what men think. A lot of them actually desired to become so skinny that in a sense they'd become "invisible" and no one would notice them. Mind you, these are girls that have/are suffering from disordered eating or Body dismorphic disorder.

[mymadori]

With regard to the boney look, just an observation I've had....I have a really good friend (one of my very best) who is a very good looking young woman. She's about 25 and is 5'10", blonde and chesty. For awhile, her and I were both single. I was about 139 pounds and she was about the same. I, being 5'5" was a size 8 or so and she was probably a 5? She got more attention than I did...not by a landslide, but the point is- that when we went out to bars- she seemed to attract more men. Now she's become very skinny. She's probably about 115 or so. I'd say she's between a size 2 and a 4. When her and I go out together now ... she doesn't get near the level of attention that she used to. It could just be a coincidence, but it seems to me that guys just generally don't find her as attractive as they did last year when she was heavier?

[shopgirl28]

It could just be a coincidence, but it seems to me that guys just generally don't find her as attractive as they did last year when she was heavier?

See, the women/girls that I know aren't doing it for men. Is your friend happier at the weight she is now? If she lives a healthy life style and enjoys being that thin then more power to her...like who cares what a guy thinks as long as your happy! Or the "coincidence" could be that men are now intimidated by her and are too nervous to go up to her. I have a lot of guy friends that when we go out in groups don't go up to certain girls, even if they're standing alone, because they assume she has a bf or that she's took good for them. Haha, guys can be so strange sometimes, thats why I dont' depend on them to make choices about how I should look. Like the reason I dye my hair or buy a new eye shadow is because I like to look in the mirror and like what I see; not because the guy down the street digs brunettes! lol

[lilli]

There have been many women designers starting with Coco Chenel. She got women out of corsets. (it had to take a women to do that). This first winner of project runway was a women. The runway models are ultra thin for a good reason. Clothes should look like they're on a hanger. Underwear models are bigger, but still very slender. Men find that very attractive, because the arms and legs are slimmer, the male eye goes to the breasts and hips. It's safe to say men like that sort of thing...just don't like the fat arms and legs, and belly.
Who says men don't find bellies and the like attractive? i know quite a few couples and men who would strongly disagree with you...Also, i don't think men notice the arms and legs on the models in the underwear catalogs...they're probably too focused on the T&A.
Personally, i don't find those runway coathangers attractive. If we must have models (and i guess we must,) back in the 80's and 90's, the supermodels back then were where it's at, for me. Cindy crawford, for example, had very nice curves.

Coco Chanel was great, yeah, but that was way over 60 years ago. The head of the Chanel house is now a man (and i do believe he's gay.) In fact, if you did a little research, you would see that most of the very top designers for the largest fashion houses are, in fact, male, and if you did a little more research, you would find them to be openly gay. There has been a recent influx of newer male designers the past 6 years or so, who are not so open about their sexuality (zac posen? who knows...) Yes, there are many women designers, but for the most part, they work on lines that are ready to wear (and thus more accesible to the average female with the average income). By and large, the HIGH fashion indistry, (the one which hires anorexic models and plasters their image everywhere, making these severely unhealthy body images the accepted "norm"-), is male dominated.
I have nothing wrong with homosexuality, most of my friends are gay. I do, however, have a problem with men (who aren't even attracted to women--,) perpetuating an extremely damaging female beauty myth.

p.s. Actually, about Chanel getting women out of corsets- Napolean was supposedly the first to do it. He (they say...) invented the "empire" style (which is so popular right now). He did it because he wanted to build his empire, and realized that corsets were bad for childbearing.

[rachelratz]

Well I know quite a few men including my husband who thinks fat arms, legs and a bulging belly are mega ugly. I may be thin, but I'm also 34 -24-34. Just because you're slender, does not mean you're not curvy. I think my husband likes slim legs, arms and small belly just as much as my 34 C cup breasts.

Men also notice the T & A because there are no unsightly rolls of fat to distract the eye.

I've also been hearing left and right how men designers must be gay bcause they make models thin and that don't get me wrong but some of my best friends are...I just don't believe you can stereotype a group of people because of their profession

And the whole point of this forum? People are fat and they would rather be thin. I've been both and I like being thin a heck of a lot better then fat.

[lilli]

Well I know quite a few men including my husband who thinks fat arms, legs and a bulging belly are mega ugly. I may be thin, but I'm also 34 -24-34. Just because you're slender, does not mean you're not curvy. I think my husband likes slim legs, arms and small belly just as much as my 34 C cup breasts.

Men also notice the T & A because there are no unsightly rolls of fat to distract the eye.

I've also been hearing left and right how men designers must be gay bcause they make models thin and that don't get me wrong but some of my best friends are...I just don't believe you can stereotype a group of people because of their profession

And the whole point of this forum? People are fat and they would rather be thin. I've been both and I like being thin a heck of a lot better then fat.
Yes, my husband likes my 36dd-28-39 quite a bit. No, they aren't perfect mesurements, but they work for him.
Now, when i was at my heaviest, (4 years and many pounds lost ago,) a certain male friend STARTED to see me as attractive...I was getting my first little belly roll, and he just thought it was the sexiest thing. My point--- there are many, MANY men out there who seriously lust after heavier women, more than most people realize, because normal and ahem...quite rubinesque...female bodytypes are simply not represented in the media.
Yes, stereotyping a group of people because of their profession is bad. But, like i said before, many, many leading high fashion designers are o-p-e-n-l-y gay, and not sexually attracted to the bodies of the women they design for. I, for one, think that says a lot.
But, rachelratz, i must agree with you on your last point- this forum does exist for a reason, because we all want to be smaller. And i also like being thin a heck of alot better than being fat.

[j13]

Men also notice the T & A because there are no unsightly rolls of fat to distract the eye.

That is just not true. It's all about proportion.

I've also been hearing left and right how men designers must be gay bcause they make models thin and that don't get me wrong but some of my best friends are...I just don't believe you can stereotype a group of people because of their profession

I believe you can report something that is factually true. To deny reality is just absurd. Your denial that the fashion industry is dominated by gay men is really just odd. It would be like my saying you can't say that rap industry is dominated by black people. What? And further, what on earth is wrong with that?? Gay is not a pejorative. For me, sexuality carries no negative connotation whatsoever (nor does black, white, male, female, etc. etc. etc.). So why the defensiveness? It's just plain weird.

My point was in response to the OP, which asked about what people find attractive. My conjecture is that high fashion (which is the dominant force behind the "heroin chic" or coathanger-physique girls) is dominated by gay guys who don't necessarily speak to what the majority of straight men find attractive - which is absolutely NOT that look. This is not a slight on gay people, nor is it a slight on very thin people. By you're measurements, I'd bet you're really hot. It's all about proportion. Every scientific study of attraction finds that.

And the whole point of this forum? People are fat and they would rather be thin. I've been both and I like being thin a heck of a lot better then fat.

Clearly. But the whole crux of the issue here is what is "thin" vs. what is "gaunt." What is "fat" vs. what is "well-proportioned." I propose that most women's view of "thin" is skewed unnaturally far towards "gaunt" in comparison to what men really want.

-j.

[j13]

Funny thing here is that I think the boney look appeals to women more than men. Now I'm NOT speaking for all women, mainly girls from 15-22 that idolize that boney thin look. Many people I have talked to about this (in my support groups) say that they don't care what men think. A lot of them actually desired to become so skinny that in a sense they'd become "invisible" and no one would notice them. Mind you, these are girls that have/are suffering from disordered eating or Body dismorphic disorder.

Here's my point, though - the tendency for women to want to look that way ALWAYS gets pinned on men, and it is FRUSTRATING! I can't tell you how many times women talk about all the pressure from men to look like the models in the magazines. Seriously, that's NOT all us! Is some of it? Sure it is. But there's the same exact pressure on men from women for liking Brad Pitt and having that image on your screen as the male ideal. Men ALWAYS get trampled for "forcing" this bony image down women's throats, though, when (1) we're not the ones doing it, and (2) we (the majority of us) don't even find it particularly appealing in the first place!

-j.

[AmoryBlain]

j13, you raise very good points, but my jaw dropped when you said, "It's all about proportion." Most of the men in my life ALWAYS say that! I actually just called my friend Jim and asked him if he's posting on a low carb forum and I didn't know about it. :)

[shopgirl28]

Here's my point, though - the tendency for women to want to look that way ALWAYS gets pinned on men, and it is FRUSTRATING! I can't tell you how many times women talk about all the pressure from men to look like the models in the magazines. Seriously, that's NOT all us! Is some of it? Sure it is. But there's the same exact pressure on men from women for liking Brad Pitt and having that image on your screen as the male ideal. Men ALWAYS get trampled for "forcing" this bony image down women's throats, though, when (1) we're not the ones doing it, and (2) we (the majority of us) don't even find it particularly appealing in the first place!

-j.

Thats basically the point I was trying to get across...that the females I know really don't care what the men think. They want to be thin because they want to be thin. It probably has something to do with models, but if a skinny girl walked down the street they'd probably point to them and say "i wish I looked like that" and they probably wouldn't say "My boyfriend wishes I looked like that".
I'm not really sure if you were trying to counter my point but it seems we're on the same page. To be honest with you, if you've had any girls just as friends then you probably know how harsh we can be on other women (I only have friends up to 26 years old so I'm not sure if its a generation thing) But I know that in college, many of the girls are actually secretly competing with each other to be the thinnest. Why else would they point out what other girls are eating/exercising/wearing/etc. Its very strange and I'm trying to get away from that whole school of thought.

Lilli - I agree with its kind of ironic that the men that design the clothes for women aren't even attracted to them in the first place. One great designer I do love for showing off women's curves is Oscar de La Renta. His dresses really accentuate the female hourglass. And there's another young designer out there but I can't remember his name right now, but he also understands how an average woman's body is built.

[AmoryBlain]

As far as clothes, that's why I love the Victoria's Secret catalogue. Those women have breasts, asses, curves, and MUSCLE. I'd rather watch the VS Runway show with some wiggle and jiggle than a Valentino or Vuitton "skeleton" show.

Shopgirl, I agree with you--women dress for other women and we're our own worst critics. Even at the high school level, young girls are competing to be the thinnest. I have many anorexic and bulimic students this year--more than ever.

[j13]

Thats basically the point I was trying to get across...that the females I know really don't care what the men think. They want to be thin because they want to be thin. It probably has something to do with models, but if a skinny girl walked down the street they'd probably point to them and say "i wish I looked like that" and they probably wouldn't say "My boyfriend wishes I looked like that".
I'm not really sure if you were trying to counter my point but it seems we're on the same page. To be honest with you, if you've had any girls just as friends then you probably know how harsh we can be on other women (I only have friends up to 26 years old so I'm not sure if its a generation thing) But I know that in college, many of the girls are actually secretly competing with each other to be the thinnest. Why else would they point out what other girls are eating/exercising/wearing/etc. Its very strange and I'm trying to get away from that whole school of thought.

No, no - we're totally on the same page. I guess I just got caught up in a (completely unnecessary, off-point) mini-side rant about how it seems like we men are always getting blamed for that pressure to be super-thin when it's not really us applying that pressure. I've got/had lots of women as friends and the topic comes up every once in a while, especially since I've lost weight...the social and political implications of weight are a topic that people like to bring up with a guy who's lost 155+ lbs. I can't tell you how many times I've heard how much worse it is for women than men, both on the board and IRL, and how many times I've heard the blame for that laid at men's feet. So I was just talking about that, completely out of context and basically with myself. :) Clearly that's not an issue that has its place in this thread (nor does it really need to be rehashed in a new one, imo...it comes up often enough on its own...).

So, yeah, we're saying the same thing, but for different reasons.

(Your reason was as a positive contribution to the thread while mine was an unnecessary diversion into rantsville... :D )

Btw, "a generation thing"?? Jesus, I'm not THAT old, am I?!?! Wow, that might be the first time I've ever felt old in my life... :) At least I can take solace in the fact that I get carded for everything...at least I *look* like a teenager. I got carded twice this week, once playing cards in AC (I'm the only person I've ever seen get carded playing poker - and I've played with kids who were clearly 14-16 years old before), and I even got carded for buying tickets for a charity raffle... :p Most of the time I'm annoyed and embarrassed by it, but maybe I should start appreciating it... :)

-j.

[shopgirl28]

Btw, "a generation thing"?? Jesus, I'm not THAT old, am I?!?! Wow, that might be the first time I've ever felt old in my life... :) At least I can take solace in the fact that I get carded for everything...at least I *look* like a teenager. I got carded twice this week, once playing cards in AC (I'm the only person I've ever seen get carded playing poker - and I've played with kids who were clearly 14-16 years old before), and I even got carded for buying tickets for a charity raffle... :p Most of the time I'm annoyed and embarrassed by it, but maybe I should start appreciating it... :)

-j.


Haha, don't worry, I didn't mean you're old! :lol: I was just covering my butt just incase someone came on and said "No, women are not like that, we don't talk about each other!!" haha

Oh and mini-rants are what keep me coming back! It makes the forum more exciting..that and the war zone :bash: of course.

[lilli]

[QUOTE=AmoryBlainw.

Shopgirl, I agree with you--women dress for other women and we're our own worst critics. Even at the high school level, young girls are competing to be the thinnest. [/QUOTE]


I agree with you too! I don't think it's a generation thing...I remember my grandma telling me, when i was a pre-teen overweight child, that i had to lose weight or i would never have a boyfriend!! I think women and these mindsets have been around for a while, unfortunately. Still now, most of my friends are on some type of diet (i'm 29 and most of them are early 30's,) and it IS like some kind of unspoken competition to be thinner. I have been a yo-yo dieter for wayyyy too many years, and when i'm thin, it's interesting to notice which of my friends will actually tell me i look great. It's terrible; most of my friends are artists of some sort, and interested in so many other things, and we STILL have to be so focused on being thin, in a negative way!

Also, about men and how they are blamed for this- It's somewhat of a myth that the men in our lives have anything to do with it; IMO, most men i know like curvier shapes. When i tell my husband i want to lose 10 pounds, he gets worried (for real, actually worried,) that i will be too skinny. When you think about it, don't most of your (non- player type...) single male friends just not want to be lonely? I know that's true about mine. I know so many single men who are looking for a partner, and the main thing that counts for them, is if she likes him or not and thinks about the same things - not that her body be super skinny.
I think it's terrible that men are given the rap for some of this--- my very sweet husband worries (out loud) that he can't lose weight, and doesn't like the way he looks, etc., etc., WAYYY more than i do, and no matter what- whatever i look like, whatever weight, he always tells me i'm perfect. I think there are many sweet guys out there who have insecurity problems somewhat similar to womens, and NO one talks about it. Guys put on a veneer of strength, so no one notices what's going on with them.

[jkmfrog]

140-215 lbs - someone has always found me attractive. On the lower end of that folks thought I was "sickly" even though weight charts say I could weigh less and be "healthy". Ha! A lot of it is attitude. I do think at some point for each individual there is a point at which a person will cross the line from being attractive to not attractive; maybe its weight, maybe its thier actions, maybe its something else...its tough to pin point where that is.

[Atrsy]

My husband says that men who like really skinny women must be latent homosexuals.

I was thin when I was younger--140-150, but I always thought I was fat. Now that I am older (much older than the rest of you) I am way overweight.

I don't want to be skinny anymore. I just want to be able to wear a nice dress and not look like I'm pregnant.

But what bothers me even more than my weight is that I'm a different person inside than what my weight would lead people to assume about me. When I am carrying all this extra weight, it changes how I feel about myself and therefore that conveys to people who meet me. I wish people could know the real me.

I am an intelligent, creative woman, yet my clothing shows a frumpy old lady. I could make my own clothing like I used to, but those clothes just wouldn't look the same on this body. Stores just don't seem to make attractive clothing for bigger women.

I think I got off the subject here, but again, I wouldn't want to be stick thin, but I would like to be at a weight where people would recognize the true me.

[rachelratz]

As far as clothes, that's why I love the Victoria's Secret catalogue. Those women have breasts, asses, curves, and MUSCLE. I'd rather watch the VS Runway show with some wiggle and jiggle than a Valentino or Vuitton "skeleton" show.

Shopgirl, I agree with you--women dress for other women and we're our own worst critics. Even at the high school level, young girls are competing to be the thinnest. I have many anorexic and bulimic students this year--more than ever.

My older sister Sarah did modeling, mostly catalogs. Not underwear, a lot of clothing in Sears catalog. (back when they had a catalog!) She is now 45, her modeling days way long ago. When she modeled she was in her late teens and was 5'11" 126lbs. My mother was very protective and always went to to shoots with her. She is now 145lbs, a lawyer and is happy they way she is. The money she earned went into college. Some people might think she is still thin, but I think she looks pretty good. She still turns heads and is still a power dresser. I always shop with her and she still picks out everything to me. They need thin women to model, because they have to look like hangers. (the best way to show clothes). They must be very tall also. They tried petitie models for a while, but failed. The taller you are, the better the clothing shows

[Atrsy]

Just because the clothes look good on a rail thin model doesn't mean they will look good on you. That is another thing that causes women problems. There is nothing worse than trying on a cute outfit and realizing that it just looks horrible on you.

Clothing designers design for thin women and the clothing doesn't fit in the places where real women carry weight. I even remember when my dd was in about 6th grade. She was very tall and had broad shoulders but no waistline and no bust. It was impossible to find clothing for her. It is the same for women with large breasts or hips. The tops no longer have darts and they just cause unflattering creases where they are stretched to the limit. But if you are buying a set or a dress, it's usually impossible to find one that fits in both the hips and the bust. I also find it impossible to find slacks that fit because my waistline is too big and if I get them to fit the waist, they bulge below my belly and them look really awful.

[PS Diva]

They need thin women to model, because they have to look like hangers. (the best way to show clothes).
Yes, that's what the designers seem to believe. I would rather see what the clothing looks like on real people.

[capo]

It's curious to think that I was breastfed for a year, fed a healthy mostly nutritious diet my whole childhood, and now I am eating an even more healthy nutritious diet and at the end stages of puberty I have developed even wider hips as well as a bigger butt. It seems as if what is natural and healthy (in my case at least) is not viewed so in society. For example, I know women who eat junk food after junk food, are in their early to mid twenties and are stick thin, have tiny narrow hips and not much body fat (which is viewed as attractive in western society today), and the thing I don't understand is that perhaps they're not healthy, but they're thin..

Obviously nature intended for women to have larger hips to birth a baby easily in a shorter amount of time, with less pain and less chance for death of the baby or mother, but society and the media push women to look like men (have narrow hips and low body fat) because that is what it views as attractive.

Yes there are ways to dress to hide wider hips, but it's a pain. It'd be so much easier to be stick thin and fit into/look good in everything. Perhaps thin people have other health issues such as locking joints and little strength because they are sugar addicts, and perhaps they can't give birth as easily or as 'painlessly' as a bigger hipped woman, and they can't breastfeed their babies because their body fat percentage is so low.. there are serious health disadvantages to being thin, but it seems that in our society thin= happy. At least that's the impression I get from the media and people.

[kebaldwin]

Bad nutrition can cause people to be obese -- but also cause many other problems. So a thin person that eats junk all the time can have a lot of other medical problems (other than being fat) -- including mental disease, stroke, cancer, respiratory problems, bowel problems, etc.

[PS Diva]

Or the problems can be down the road for the person eating badly, making it even harder to convince them of the folly of their ways!

[kebaldwin]

Absolutley. 20, 30 or 40 years down the road.

[lizwhip]

Well I know quite a few men including my husband who thinks fat arms, legs and a bulging belly are mega ugly.


And I know quite a few who don't!

[sandy bush]

I've been thinking about this thread quite a bit and I just had to put in my two cents worth.

All I know is that some of the most shapely, muscular, sleek men and women are the ugliest. By the way they treat others.

I would much, much rather be with a man, with whatever "imperfections" he has, that is kind, considerate, passionate, and who wants to be with me.

[geekgirl75]

You know this thread is reminding me of a conversation I had with my husband. I have two goal weights sort of. 150 and 130 I'm going to re-evaluate when I reach 150 and see if I have more to lose. So DH says to me when I tell him all this... "I think I'd like you more at 150 than 130" I have a very large frame and he is afraid that 130 would be too thin for me... Seriously we compared shoulder width between me and a male friend who is really fit and has a bigger build and is almost 6 ft and we were right about the same, same with wrist circumfrance... so while obviously I have a ton of weight to lose I do have a large frame and will never be the the 110 thats reccomended for my height.

Anyways, most of my male friends prefer women who are slightly heavier... not to the levels I am, but the women they find attractive seem to range around the 200 lb mark. Its very odd that its worked out that way but it seems to be true across the board for the guys I know.

I do find even at my extremely high weight, when i dress up nice and feel I look good and feel good about myself I get more attention so thats what I'm working on... as well as weightloss.